Latest / Heartwise / HW 2026-08-13 Domestic Violence Part 1 - Charles Mills

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HW 2026-08-13 Domestic Violence Part 1 - Charles Mills · Heartwise

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Speaker 1: This is Heartwise, offering practical tips and time proven guidelines
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Speaker 1: to make your life healthier, happier, and more fulfilling. Today
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Speaker 1: you'll learn simple, Bible based principles for building and maintaining
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Speaker 1: optimum mental and physical health, all while deepening your relationship
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Speaker 1: with your creator. Hello everyone, I'm Charles Mills, health reporter
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Speaker 1: for Heartwise Ministries. Our topic today isn't an easy one
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Speaker 1: to discuss, but no series of radio programs on the
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Speaker 1: subject of health would be complete without it. Domestic violence
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Speaker 1: is something that happens to someone else, to another group
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Speaker 1: of people, to other unfortunate individuals, right wrong. Domestic violence
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Speaker 1: is all too common, even among Christians. Our guest today
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Speaker 1: recently retired from her chosen profession of ophthalmology and is
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Speaker 1: now a member of the domestic violence Response team at
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Speaker 1: Southern Adventish University near Chattanooga, Tennessee. She speaks often at
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Speaker 1: churches and has recently written a series of study lessons
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Speaker 1: on the subject of domestic violence within church families. I'm
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Speaker 1: so pleased to have her with us today, Johnny Lauren,
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Speaker 1: Welcome to Heartwives.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's good to be here.
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Speaker 1: Okay, why this subject, Johnny why domestic violence.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think long enough we as church members have
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Speaker 2: had our heads in the sand about this. You know,
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Speaker 2: you kind of think that if a person had that
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Speaker 2: problem when they were unchurched, that when they became churched,
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Speaker 2: you know, that would all change and that would all
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Speaker 2: float away somehow and we'd all be one big, happy family.
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Speaker 2: But as you mentioned in your introduction, that's not necessarily true.
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Speaker 2: And unfortunately, we've discovered by some research done by the
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Speaker 2: Committee that our percentages, unfortunately, within the Christian churches, the
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Speaker 2: percentages are just as high as in non churched families,
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Speaker 2: and that's why the subject needs to be addressed.
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Speaker 1: Well, what I hear you saying is disturbing here. It's
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Speaker 1: saying to us that when we have someone join the
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Speaker 1: Christian family to make the transition from being unchurched to
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Speaker 1: being church apparently something is carried from the unchurched life
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Speaker 1: right directly into the church life. There is not a
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Speaker 1: change that takes place.
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Speaker 3: Why is that?
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Speaker 1: In your research? What have you discovered that is carried
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Speaker 1: from one area to another.
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Speaker 2: Well, let's say that person grew up in a home
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Speaker 2: that had a beast going on, which is quite often
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Speaker 2: so true. You know under the third and fourth generations,
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Speaker 2: we tend to all carry those things. It's not a
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Speaker 2: magic wand that gets waived over us and we become
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Speaker 2: a member of a church, the Lord still has to
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Speaker 2: work on us gradually and as we're able to do it,
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Speaker 2: and as we're open to being changed. So it's not
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Speaker 2: something that happens overnight.
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Speaker 1: It just is amazing because you would think that the
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Speaker 1: people who have become church have met Jesus and have
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Speaker 1: come to know God. You would think that they have
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Speaker 1: seen the character of God in all of its glory,
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Speaker 1: and there should be a response to understanding that character
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Speaker 1: of God that would make that kind of change in
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Speaker 1: their lives. Wouldn't that be true?
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Speaker 2: It would be true, Charles, if we were all presenting
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Speaker 2: the character of God appropriately. Unfortunately, that's not necessarily true.
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Speaker 2: You know, when we say we are spreading the good
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Speaker 2: news of the Gospel, and you know, let's face it,
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Speaker 2: there are millions of members of thousands of churches out
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Speaker 2: there that all believe they have the Gospel and that
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Speaker 2: it's right. But we know that men have flown airplanes
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Speaker 2: into buildings thinking they were right spiritually. So somewhere along
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Speaker 2: the road, as we have read those Bible texts and
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Speaker 2: studied into who God is. We've evidently had the wrong
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Speaker 2: paradigm sometimes, and I think that makes a tremendous difference
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Speaker 2: in how we see God and then how we treat others.
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Speaker 1: So we are carrying on the tradition of domestic violence
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Speaker 1: when we move from being an unchurched family to being
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Speaker 1: a church family, because we are misunderstanding the character of God.
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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying, That is.
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Speaker 2: A heavy belief of mine, really, And when you get
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Speaker 2: into talking with some of these people and seeing their history,
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Speaker 2: hearing their stories, you can understand. Unfortunately, the more legalistic
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Speaker 2: the religion, the more I have to because if I
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Speaker 2: don't God won't love me, or God will you know,
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Speaker 2: we might step outside our own beliefs in s the
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Speaker 2: other churches that literally believe that not only will God
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Speaker 2: kill you if you do something wrong, but He will
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Speaker 2: keep you alive and burn you forever, you know, punish you.
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Speaker 2: So there are lots of views. I mean, we put
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Speaker 2: God is love on church signs, and we talk about
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Speaker 2: God as a loving person, but when it boils down
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Speaker 2: to it, we're talking about He's love if I do
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Speaker 2: the right things or if I belong to the right church,
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Speaker 2: and otherwise he's going to be vindictive and arbitrary, and
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Speaker 2: he's going to take care of my enemies for me.
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Speaker 2: You know, there's a little bit of that I want
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Speaker 2: him to do what I'm not supposed to do.
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Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're saying that there are individuals
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Speaker 1: who when they are violent toward their spouses or their children,
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Speaker 1: when there is domestic violence, they somehow, in the back
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Speaker 1: of their mind, believe that they are being God like.
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Speaker 2: It sounds wild, doesn't it. But I really believe that
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Speaker 2: there are many people who do. Of course, there are
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Speaker 2: those who don't care what God thinks. But if I
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Speaker 2: have grown up in a home where I've been taught
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Speaker 2: that God is watching from a distance, you know, he's
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Speaker 2: making a list and checking it twice, and he's going
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Speaker 2: to take care of things in the end, and I
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Speaker 2: better kee tao to all of these dues and don'ts
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Speaker 2: that I've been taught and my life is so wrapped
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Speaker 2: up in thinking that this is the kind of God
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Speaker 2: I serve. Okay, then we are taught we're supposed to
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Speaker 2: be christ like or god like, and so we strive.
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Speaker 2: I'm going to put a caveat in here. In the
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Speaker 2: situation of abuse, it can go either way. It can
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Speaker 2: be man to woman, which is larger percent, or woman
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Speaker 2: to man. But excuse me if I will just use
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Speaker 2: if he grows up in a home, this is true,
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Speaker 2: and he has been taught this, and he has commanded
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Speaker 2: that he needs to, you know, learn these things from
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Speaker 2: his parents, whether by word or action, and then he
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Speaker 2: turns and is like that to his own family. You
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Speaker 2: can imagine what the results will be. And if the
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Speaker 2: woman has grown up in a similar home, she may
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Speaker 2: have seen her mother respond in a way that her
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Speaker 2: mother was taught. You know, you made your bed, now
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Speaker 2: you have to lie in it, no matter what till
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Speaker 2: death do us part. That promise is more important, we believe,
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Speaker 2: sometimes to God than literally than the safety of his
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Speaker 2: own children. You know, it's sad to me that we
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Speaker 2: attribute to God things that we would never do to
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Speaker 2: our own children. And that hurts my feelings when I
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Speaker 2: hear God proclaimed to be that type of ruler of
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Speaker 2: person that would would exact from us no matter what.
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Speaker 2: I just I desire to see us learn what God
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Speaker 2: is really like, and that would be the good news
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Speaker 2: of the Gospel. If it's appropriately applied to our lives,
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Speaker 2: and I think it would change how we treat each
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Speaker 2: other dramatically.
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Speaker 1: So we're talking about the truth about God, the truth
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Speaker 1: about his character. How did we arrive, Johnny? How did
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Speaker 1: we arrive at this skewed view of God that is
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Speaker 1: so powerful in us that we becoming godlike excuse domestic
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Speaker 1: violence in our own lives?
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Speaker 2: Good question. You know, we can go clear back to
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Speaker 2: the war in Heaven if we want to and talk
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Speaker 2: about how Satan immediately decided. I don't know how long
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Speaker 2: it took him, but he went against the character of
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Speaker 2: God to become prideful enough to say I'm going to
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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to survive no matter what, and
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Speaker 2: I'm going to take a third of the angels with me.
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Speaker 2: And I think since then he has been trying to
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Speaker 2: overlay his own character over the face of God. He
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Speaker 2: knows God is powerful, that's never been an issue. But
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Speaker 2: what he tries to tell us is that God misuses
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Speaker 2: his power, that he controls us and forces us. And
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Speaker 2: I've heard it from pulpits, I've heard it from people
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Speaker 2: one on one that when God decides something, you don't
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Speaker 2: have a choice. You're either going to be saved or
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Speaker 2: you're going to be lost. And that's just the way
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Speaker 2: it is, so you better watch out, you know. And
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Speaker 2: instead of understanding that those are the characteristics that come
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Speaker 2: from the Father of Lies, not the God of truth.
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Speaker 1: So many times when we are talking about God and
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Speaker 1: we are describing God from the pulpit, we're actually describing Satan.
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Speaker 2: That sounds awfully heavy.
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Speaker 1: In other words, if we're saying God is vindictive, God
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Speaker 1: is wrath filled, God is going is a judge. God
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Speaker 1: is going to bring destruction to you. God is going
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Speaker 1: to be mean to you. God is going to exact
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Speaker 1: from you the love that he deserves. We're talking about
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Speaker 1: what Satan does to us, not what God does to us.
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Speaker 2: Leave that with all my heart. You cannot force love.
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Speaker 2: God is love. He created this whole universe to run
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Speaker 2: on love, you know, the reciprocal giving of the clouds
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Speaker 2: and the rain, and how it works, all the natural
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Speaker 2: laws that are there. If we take time to look
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Speaker 2: at those, we can see who God really is. But
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Speaker 2: we have somehow been fed this line by the Father
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Speaker 2: of Lies and on down and it's just been proliferated
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Speaker 2: through the churches and information we have that somehow God
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Speaker 2: he means business and you know he's got this plan
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Speaker 2: and if you step outside of it, your toast.
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Speaker 4: Wow. Have you ever seen so many cereal boxes before?
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Speaker 3: There are a bunch of them, some with pictures of animals,
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Speaker 3: some with bowls of fruit and milk, and some with
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Speaker 3: cartoon characters.
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Speaker 4: How are you supposed to pick one for our camping trip?
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Speaker 4: Is there one with a picture of a tent on it?
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Speaker 4: Let's see what did the nurse house last week in school?
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Speaker 4: She said, if a snake bites you, don't suck out
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Speaker 4: the poison.
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 3: Before that, she said that we should only buy food
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Speaker 3: that has a very short list.
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Speaker 4: Of ingredients on the package.
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Speaker 3: And she said, don't buy cereal that's loaded with sugar. Okay,
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Speaker 3: we know that ingredients are listed in order. The first
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Speaker 3: I that's in here is the most So here's a
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Speaker 3: cool box. Let's see first item sugar. This one too,
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Speaker 3: sugar right at the top.
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Speaker 4: And this one and this one.
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Speaker 3: She said, watch out for words like evaporated cane juice
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Speaker 3: or corn syrup or even natural sweetener. They're just if
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Speaker 3: it weren't for sugar. Hey, this one says that sugar's
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Speaker 3: number three Nope, Why read it comes next? There are
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Speaker 3: a bunch of words I can't pronounce. Venors said that
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Speaker 3: if we can't pronounce it, our stomachs probably can't digest it.
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Speaker 4: Try again. Okay, here's a cereal that has just one
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Speaker 4: thing in the ingredients list, one hundred percent whole week.
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Speaker 4: That's all. That's all. Then that's it.
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Speaker 3: Dump a little honey, fresh fruit and swim up on
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Speaker 3: there and we're eating healthy.
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Speaker 4: You sound like a commercial.
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Speaker 1: God has given us everything we need to be healthy
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Speaker 1: inside and out. During Creation Week, he established a health
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Speaker 1: plan for every creature on earth. To learn more about
12:38
Speaker 1: healthy living and about the God who created us, all
12:41
Speaker 1: go to kidsbibleinfo dot com. That's kids bibleinfo dot com.
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Speaker 1: This program was brought to you by the Children's Ministries
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Speaker 1: Department of the General Conference of Seventh day Adventists. Our
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Speaker 1: guest today is Johnny Lauren. We're talking about domestic violence,
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Speaker 1: and surprisingly we began talking about God's character. What has
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Speaker 1: God's character got to do with domestic violence? Well, Johnny
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Speaker 1: has made the argument, and I believe it with all
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Speaker 1: my heart that our vision of God drives how we
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Speaker 1: treat people. And if we see God as a vindictive,
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Speaker 1: wrath fill do it my way or I'll kill you
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Speaker 1: kind of being, and we want to be godlike. Guess
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Speaker 1: what we do. We're doing the same thing, and that
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Speaker 1: could include domestic violence. Johnny, let's talk about our churches.
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Speaker 1: You dropped a bombshell saying that the rate of domestic
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Speaker 1: violence in church people is about the same as it
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Speaker 1: is in unchurched people. How do we get the message
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Speaker 1: across when the church itself may be part of the problem.
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Speaker 2: Oh well, I can tell you that the committee that
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Speaker 2: I have belonged to for five years, headed by doctor
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Speaker 2: Rene Drum at the university, has first of all been
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Speaker 2: doing research. Then we have begun to try to share
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Speaker 2: this information with others. We are speaking in churches, we
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Speaker 2: are coordinating and facilitating training sessions for pastors, and I'm
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Speaker 2: delighted to say that the conference that we belong to
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Speaker 2: has now required all of their pastors to attend that training.
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Speaker 2: That just is miraculous and we are so thankful. We
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Speaker 2: are connected also with our North American Division, and there
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Speaker 2: has been a training for the whole North American Division
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Speaker 2: in Lon Molnda in September, the first ever. We are
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Speaker 2: not the head, we are somewhat the tail. If you
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Speaker 2: watch television or Doctor Phil or a number of other
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Speaker 2: talk shows, you realize that the subject has been addressed
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Speaker 2: for a long time. But we as a church, or
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Speaker 2: as churches if you will, because we're all a fellowship
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Speaker 2: of believers, has really not addressed this. And I think
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Speaker 2: we just have a fear that if, you know, if
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Speaker 2: we talk about it, it'll somehow get worse, or maybe
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Speaker 2: would split the church up, or someone might say, well,
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Speaker 2: if I talk about that, they won't want me to
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Speaker 2: be a leader next year. So I have enough problems
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Speaker 2: of my own. I really don't want to get into that.
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Speaker 2: And unfortunately, we just keep it hidden most of the time.
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Speaker 2: But you can't heal what you don't reveal, as the
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Speaker 2: saying goes, so it's it's high time we addressed it.
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Speaker 1: What about young people? When should they start hearing about
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Speaker 1: this and being told about it? I would assume, Johnny Lauren,
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Speaker 1: that you're saying that we not only need to start
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Speaker 1: informing young people about it, but also informing them about
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Speaker 1: the true character of God. These should go hand in hand.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, I mean you would hope that training would
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Speaker 2: start in the home. Unfortunately, since about twenty five percent
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Speaker 2: of people both churched and unchurched do experienced domestic violence.
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Speaker 2: You know, there's going to be a lot of that missing.
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Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be nice if we had training programs as
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Speaker 2: part of the curriculum in our grade schools, in our
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Speaker 2: high schools and academies, in our colleges, and in our
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Speaker 2: training for pastors. Unfortunately in all of those it's absent.
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Speaker 2: We're trying to change that because we need people to understand.
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Speaker 2: We don't want to scare them to death. We don't
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Speaker 2: want a religion of fear in any area of our
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Speaker 2: spiritual life. Fear does not beget love. You can't force love,
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Speaker 2: you know. That's the bottom line. But information, somehow gently
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Speaker 2: as they're younger, somehow more appropriate age wives as to
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Speaker 2: get older. There needs to be training at each level.
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Speaker 1: We all are aware of what domestic violence looks like.
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Speaker 1: At least on one level. We see the woman and
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Speaker 1: sometimes the man with the bruises and the black eye
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Speaker 1: and the excuses, I fell down the stairs, I walked
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Speaker 1: into the door, et cetera, et cetera. So we say, okay,
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Speaker 1: violence looks like that. Are there other types of domestic violence?
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Speaker 1: We should know about that may be unseen.
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Speaker 2: Oh yes, it never starts there. Usually it starts with
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Speaker 2: the emotional abuse. Maybe it's as simple as I'm sure
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Speaker 2: we've all seen it. Someone makes a remark in public
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Speaker 2: and the spouse rolls their eyes. You know, we don't
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Speaker 2: think about that as being abused, but if that makes
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Speaker 2: that spouse feel less than or discounted, that's abusive to
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Speaker 2: that person. And the fact is that if they're doing that,
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Speaker 2: they're doing other things at other times. What happens in
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Speaker 2: a cycle of abuse is that the abuser tends to
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Speaker 2: start in as a say, with the emotional comments. You
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Speaker 2: couldn't handle this without me. You're unable to live financially
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Speaker 2: without me. You know, if you would just do everything right,
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Speaker 2: I wouldn't have to jump you, I wouldn't have to
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Speaker 2: get after you, if you had dinner on time, if
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Speaker 2: you dis And finally, that person is beaten down so
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Speaker 2: much that they feel that they have no resources, they
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Speaker 2: have no abilities basically, and there belittle to the point
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Speaker 2: of total submission. They become what's called a shadow person,
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Speaker 2: and they may walk on eggshells for weeks or months
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Speaker 2: on end, trying to make sure that nothing bad happens,
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Speaker 2: and then the second part of the cycle is explosion,
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Speaker 2: you know, by the person who is doing the abusing,
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Speaker 2: and they just can't hold it in any longer, and
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Speaker 2: they will do something very heavy. Luckily that doesn't last
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Speaker 2: as long. Then it goes into something we call the
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Speaker 2: honeymoon period, where I'm so sorry, I didn't mean it
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Speaker 2: and I'll never do it again, and they may bring roses,
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Speaker 2: they may talk to the family and get them to
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Speaker 2: say they'll help keep that spouse there, and then it
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Speaker 2: starts all over again. You know, it's just a cycle,
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Speaker 2: and it increasingly gets worse to the point usually of
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Speaker 2: what we notice more of the physical, but it can
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Speaker 2: be financial, it can be sexual, it can be religious.
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Speaker 2: It can be healthcare. Someone's sick and not getting the
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Speaker 2: care they need, being told they don't need to see
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Speaker 2: a doctor, or you know, even as small a thing
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Speaker 2: as they know you're sick, that they won't even offer
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Speaker 2: to go get medicine for you. All of those things
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Speaker 2: tend to decrease the person's worse.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was listening to you there and I
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Speaker 1: recognize where the easiest place to go in and make
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Speaker 1: changes takes place, and that's in that rolling of the
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Speaker 1: eyes in those very small, subtle times. If there's an
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Speaker 1: abuser who is listening to this and wants to stop
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Speaker 1: being an abuser, then you need to stop it at
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Speaker 1: that easy point. Don't roll your eyes. Share with us,
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Speaker 1: how do you do that? How do you change your
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Speaker 1: attitude about the person? So you do, don't roll your
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Speaker 1: eyes when they make a comment.
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Speaker 2: Seeing that spouse as the most incredible person in your
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Speaker 2: life except for your heavenly father will make a tremendous difference.
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Speaker 2: And I just have to say here, I am so
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Speaker 2: thankful for a spouse that does that for me. Is
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Speaker 2: he's just incredible. And you've got to see that partner
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Speaker 2: as one with yourself. You know, I wouldn't do this
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Speaker 2: to myself. And the Bible doesn't say love your neighbor
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Speaker 2: instead of yourself. It says as yourself. And so you
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Speaker 2: don't give up yourself when you give the best to
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Speaker 2: your spouse and just thinking what can I do, what's
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Speaker 2: the next best thing to lift that person up instead
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Speaker 2: of pound them down so I feel better.
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Speaker 1: That's where you start, Okay, It starts then with our
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Speaker 1: attitude toward our spouse, the very basic attitude we have
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Speaker 1: we find value in that spouse. We don't devalue that spouse.
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Speaker 1: We find value in that spouse. Just it's like we
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Speaker 1: work very hard to find value in ourselves.
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Speaker 2: I'm on the right track here, you are, And in fact,
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Speaker 2: I would step back to what you just said. Really
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Speaker 2: the starting is finding value in yourself, if you understand.
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Speaker 2: I love what Brennan Manning, who wrote Abbish Child and
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Speaker 2: ragamuff and Gospel and some other wonderful books, he says,
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Speaker 2: sink down into your belovedness. I just love that, because
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Speaker 2: as we see our value in Christ's eyes and God's eyes,
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Speaker 2: they're one and the same. You know, we know I
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Speaker 2: and my father are one. If you've seen me, you've
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Speaker 2: seen the father. We tend to separate them, but they
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Speaker 2: are the same, and they want the same for us.
21:38
Speaker 2: So if we see ourselves as their children and worthy
21:42
Speaker 2: of love, no one's ever worthy of abuse, by the way,
21:46
Speaker 2: then we can we could maybe stop abusing ourselves. I
21:49
Speaker 2: have to watch that one. You know, it's easy to
21:52
Speaker 2: carry on these live commandments that we hear from parents.
21:55
Speaker 2: Why can't you do this? Why aren't you better at that?
21:58
Speaker 2: Why don't you look like this person? And whether the
22:01
Speaker 2: parents are dead or not, we can still continue to
22:04
Speaker 2: roll those things over ourselves and abuse ourselves when no
22:07
Speaker 2: one else is around to do it. So yeah, it
22:10
Speaker 2: really has to start with our value in God, ourselves,
22:15
Speaker 2: and then we can be free to work with others.
22:19
Speaker 1: My and the place to see that value is at
22:21
Speaker 1: the foot of the cross. When we look up at
22:23
Speaker 1: the dying Savior, we are seeing what God really is like.
22:27
Speaker 1: He gives himself for us, He gives his life for us,
22:31
Speaker 1: and then we see the value of ourselves that there
22:34
Speaker 1: is a God who would do that for us. And
22:36
Speaker 1: if we understand that, Johnny, it seems to me that
22:40
Speaker 1: there would be a change in our heart that would
22:42
Speaker 1: just keep domestic violence from ever happening. Am I right?
22:45
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
22:46
Speaker 1: Okay, very good, Well, our time is flown by. I
22:49
Speaker 1: want to remind our listeners where they can get a
22:51
Speaker 1: copy of your latest Bible study guides on this topic.
22:55
Speaker 1: Where can they find that?
22:56
Speaker 2: Go to Come Andreason dot com. This is all one line,
23:02
Speaker 2: Come Andreason dot com and there will be a link
23:06
Speaker 2: there to the Bible studies on domestic violence. It's thirteen
23:11
Speaker 2: weeks of seven days each week and it'll carry you
23:15
Speaker 2: through more than you ever thought you wanted to know
23:18
Speaker 2: about it. I've had a lot of help. It's not me.
23:21
Speaker 2: I'm really thankful that God has led through this.
23:23
Speaker 1: All right, that's comeanreason dot com. Johnny Lauren, thank you
23:27
Speaker 1: so much for being with us today. We're going to
23:29
Speaker 1: have you back on our next program because we've covered
23:32
Speaker 1: we've just sort of scratched the surface here. I want
23:34
Speaker 1: to talk next time about the victims of domestic violence
23:38
Speaker 1: about usually it's the women what they can do to
23:41
Speaker 1: deal with this and maybe bring some changes in their
23:44
Speaker 1: own lives, some very needed changes. That'll be next time
23:46
Speaker 1: on the program. Johnny, thank you very much for being here.
23:49
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'll look forward to it all right.
23:51
Speaker 1: And until next time. This is Charles Mills for doctor
23:54
Speaker 1: James Markham, inviting you to remain heart wise. Goodbye everyone,
24:00
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us today on Heartwise. If you'd
24:03
Speaker 1: like more information on how to build and maintain optimum physical, mental,
24:07
Speaker 1: and spiritual health, log onto Heartwisemanistries dot org. Heartwise is
24:12
Speaker 1: a listener supported program and your partnership with us would
24:16
Speaker 1: be greatly appreciated. Once again, our web address is Heartwisemanistries
24:20
Speaker 1: dot org.