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EPSTEIN-PIMP GHISLAINE MAXWELL JAIL-SCANDAL, "MYSTERY MEN FACE CHARGES?" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So many people have been dragged, and I mean innocent people,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: into Epstein's cesspool. There's not a witness list on a
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: silver platter on top of a Christmas tree with a
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: bow on it. That's not how it works. You have
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to comb through every document. Volumes of top-secret information was
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: set to be released. And what in that information points to,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: if it does, to wealthy, privileged... powerful individuals from all
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: around the world. 29 trafficking buddies? How come they're not
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: in MDC? How come they're not behind bars tonight? You
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: think I care they're famous? I don't care. The fact
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that she is getting preferential treatment and refusing to name
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: these 25 or more guys, we've been told they've already
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: gotten deals. What deal? We know that he was obsessed
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: with cameras. He had them everywhere he lived, on his yacht,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: you name it. So where's all that? Conspiracy theorists are
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: saying the search for our friend Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: is some type of crazy plot to take our mind
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: off of. Epstein. What is wrong with people? Nobody's forgotten Epstein.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: But the bottom line is girls were trafficked and there
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: were co-defendants and our government is doing nothing. Joining us tonight,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave, what's the latest?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Seven years after his death, Nancy, Jeffrey Epstein still having
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: lawsuits filed against associates. This time, celebrity hairstylist Frederick Fekai.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Seven women allege that Fekai's salons were used as a
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: grooming operation for Jeffrey Epstein. In the suit, the women
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: claim Epstein sent them to Fekai for beauty treatments designed
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: to make them all look younger. As a matter of fact,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: using the term look like dolls, grooming to look like dolls.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: The complaint alleges that some of the women had their
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: hair dyed blonde. The grooming-like doll to suit Epstein's preferences
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: is what it amounts to. The lawsuit filed in New
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: York names Frederick Fekai, his company, as well as salon
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: employee Patrick Coombs. The claims that Fekai and his business
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: enabled Epstein's abuse by providing salon services under his direction.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: The stylist court strongly denying these allegations. Also, While this
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: is happening, former Epstein associate, billionaire investor Leon Black, he
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: defies a subpoena to appear before the House Oversight Committee,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: instead filing a lawsuit challenging the demand for testimony and
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: documents in the panel's probe of Epstein.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: With us, Mark Epstein. This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother who
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: insists his brother was murdered just before his testimony was
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: to go down. Joining us now, an all-star panel. to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: make sense of what Mark Epstein and others are saying. First,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: straight out to renowned death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. He
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: is professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, author of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He is the star
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: But for our purposes tonight, he has investigated over 10,000
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: death scenes of all sorts. Be they... Death at your
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: own hands, accident, natural causes, unexplained, or homicide. Those are
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: the five choices. Joe Scott Morgan, explain to me why
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you insist Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Two areas to look at. You have to look externally. Well,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: let's talk about externally. They're talking about ligature marks on
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: his neck, all right? And when you see these marks,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: and I've seen every possible angle of these things out there,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: you've got two overlying marks and they run. One particularly
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: runs parallel to the shoulders. What do I mean by that?
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: The mark is here. It goes straight back. If someone
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: were to take their own life, it would pitch up.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: That's called tinting feature. And there is another mark. that
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: runs slightly upward at an angle, but it is not
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: sufficient to be defined as tinting feature, which you see
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: with self-inflicted ligatures. Now, you go under the skin, okay?
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: You go under the skin, and this is critical, Nancy.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: There are two separate fractures in the cartilage in the
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: neck right here, all right? One's on this side, one's
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: on the other side, and then Then you have, you know,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: the little bone that we always talk about, the only
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: non-articulating bone in the whole human body, the hyoid, shaped
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: like a horseshoe. Greater left horn is fractured. That's way, way, way, way,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: way up in the neck. You know, when we see this, Nancy,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: we see it with manual strangulation. So you can go
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: on and on. You can prattle on and on and say, well, yeah,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: this is consistent. with him having ended himself. However, you'll
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: never convince me. You know who else you're not going
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: to convince? My friend, Dr. Michael Bodden. And there are
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of other people out there you're never going
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: to convince either.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: There were fractures of the left, the right thyroid cartilage,
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: and the left hyoid bone. I have never seen three
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: fractures like this in a suicidal hanging. Sometimes there's a
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: fracture of the higher bone or a fracture of the
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: thyroid cartilage. Going over, over a thousand jail hangings in
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: the New York City state prisons over the past 40,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: 50 years, no one had three fractures.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: So Scott, can you address the bruises on his body
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that his brother Mark Epstein discussed? Epstein, Mark Epstein insists
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the bruises could not have been self-inflicted. And I agree. Yeah.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: How do you even explain that? I'm glad that Mark
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: brought that up. You know, you've got these areas that
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: have been impacted. And we talk about bruises, right, Nancy?
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Fancy $ 10 word, contusion. That means you have to have
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: direct contact. You have to have a direct blow to
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: that area. We've all bumped into furniture. we've bumped into
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: the side of a wall, we've fallen down. And listen,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: if what they're saying here, if what they're saying is
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: this was actually generated as a result of being in
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: this position, you can't explain that. And also it almost
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: looks as though that it's very, there's a very focal area.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: It's not widespread and diffuse. It's kind of a concentrated area.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: So to me, That implies that there was a direct impact.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it was generated by hand or
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: I have no idea, but it just does not marry
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: up with the story that they're trying to sell everybody on,
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: on this being a self-inflicted event.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Straight out to special guest joining us tonight, Mark Epstein.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother. He, along with many, are
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: convinced Jeffrey Epstein was murdered from behind bars. And it's
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: not just his blood brother saying that. Multiple medical examiners
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: and medical professionals, death investigators agree. Mark Epstein, thank you
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: for being with us tonight.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: What was your response when you heard claims that handwriting,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: handwriting experts insist your brother wrote the recent note?
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: I'm surprised to hear that because I was given a
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: report where they compared that note to three other things
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: that they know Jeffrey wrote, and they said it's not
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: the same. But more important than that note, which I'll
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: get back to, is that I've been talking about the
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: report that's being done about Jeffrey's murder. They were studying
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: the autopsy like it should have been studied years ago.
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: And the report will be out soon. It's currently being peer-reviewed,
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: but I've been read part of that report. Again, the
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: report is not being done on my behalf. I'm not
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: paying for this. It's independent pathologists. And they've inclusively... decided
• 9:07
  Speaker 6: that Jeffrey could not have taken himself out because due
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: to the injuries and bruises on his body, they could
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: not have been self-inflicted. So they know for a fact
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: that he was killed because he could not have done
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: it himself. Now, if we go back to the note,
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: this note is sort of after the July incident happened.
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: where they thought they were saying there was an attempt
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: by Jeffrey to take himself out.
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: Now, we know that's not the case. We know that
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: his cellmate roughed him up.
• 9:37
  Speaker 6: And after that incident in July, Jeffrey reported that his
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: cellmate roughed him up. And that's documented. You can find
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: that in the reports, in the files. Later, soon thereafter,
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: he recanted. And then he said he couldn't remember what happened.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: You know, what happened?
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: He changed his story because he didn't want to be
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: retaliated against.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: It's one thing to be in prison. as a pedophile.
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: It's also not a good thing to be in prison
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: as a snitch. So he said he didn't remember what happened.
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: That's why he was taken off of watch so quickly.
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: Now that we know, we know that it was not
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: an attempt to take himself out. Therefore, there would be
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: no reason for there to be a note of that kind.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: What about the fact, Mr. Baggett, guys, joining us is
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a preeminent handwriting expert, Bart Baggett. You said fast, but
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: this note did not appear for years. You mentioned it
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: was hard for your students to pull off a fake note.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: But what if it was an expert like yourself that
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: had months and months, maybe even years, to write the note?
• 10:48
  Speaker 7: That's a whole different equation. You talk about counterfeit paintings,
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: counterfeit money, counterfeit notes. If you have time and you
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: have expertise and you have access to his writing, you
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: could practice for years. I think the only cases that
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: have been really, really hard in the 30 years is
• 11:04
  Speaker 7: when a wife forges the husband's name because they've been
• 11:07
  Speaker 7: working together for 30 years. So she's got like years
• 11:10
  Speaker 7: of practice. Those cases are a little harder. And I
• 11:13
  Speaker 7: think what's interesting is not only is the handwriting so similar,
• 11:17
  Speaker 7: such as the letter forms, the A, the quickness, they've
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: obviously created such a fast thing. The words are the same.
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: They've got phrases that come directly from email. So you
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: have to ask yourself that question, who had access to
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: understand these phrasings and words and explanation marks? The only
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: way to craft a note this good to get past
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: my professional eyes is to have access to all those
• 11:43
  Speaker 7: files and then submitted into evidence at the appropriate time.
• 11:47
  Speaker 7: Are you insinuating this note was written five years later?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And who would have had those files? Dave Mack, joining us,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. Who would have had the files?
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: Nancy.
• 11:59
  Speaker 8: The files have been handled in particular here by Nick
• 12:02
  Speaker 8: Tartaglione and his defense team as they're trying to fight
• 12:08
  Speaker 8: his conviction on the murder charges that he is sitting with.
• 12:13
  Speaker 8: He's the guy who said he found the note in
• 12:15
  Speaker 8: his little book after everything went down. All of this
• 12:21
  Speaker 8: is found by the same guy, the only one who
• 12:23
  Speaker 8: benefits by it being written by Epstein.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Bart Baggett, let me understand. After your review, you believe
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the notes are genuine, but you have a concern?
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 12:35
  Speaker 7: So what I stated and what I think all forensic
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: experts would say is these two notes found in the
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: jail cell were written by the same person. However, even
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: if that person was Jeffrey, which the evidence points to it,
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: that doesn't mean he unalived himself. I think people are
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: making the assumptions that if he wrote this note, then
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: that narrative is true.
• 12:57
  Speaker 9: I don't buy that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 10: Why?
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: Because the note itself is not typically what we would
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: think of as a one of those notes. There's no depression.
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: There's no sadness. There's nothing about the typical notes that
• 13:10
  Speaker 7: I've seen when someone does that. I don't think psychologically
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: he was ready to go.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Barry Levine, I know you have written the book, the
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: definitive book on Epstein's multi-multi-million dollars schemes all over the world,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and now we find out he's meeting with Putin, as
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: in Vladimir Putin, and sets up a honey trap, likely
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: with all of these young girls to be used for
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: gathering intelligence. It's just, it's mind boggling. That's a whole
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: nother can of worms, but it's not confusing because we've
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: got Leon Black billionaire, but as in brother billionaire pays
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: 62 mil to us Virgin islands for claims on his
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: financial dealings with Epstein. And after he pays off 62 mil,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: he walks free on alleged sex trafficking girls. That's not
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: confusing to me. I think I understand exactly what happened.
• 14:16
  Speaker 10: This thing, you may think it's clear, but to the
• 14:21
  Speaker 10: Justice Department, they say that they cannot corroborate enough to
• 14:28
  Speaker 10: bring any charges against any other individuals besides Ghislaine Maxwell.
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: Okay, hold on.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I think I know somebody that's going to disagree, and
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: that would be Lynn Shaw. She is the founder and
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: director of Lynn's Warriors, a nonprofit. She's not making money
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: off this. organization dedicated to ending abuse and trafficking of girls.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Do you understand what happened? Because I do. He paid
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: $ 62 million and he walked free. No criminal charges were
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: ever even considered.
• 15:03
  Speaker 9: Absolutely. It is the same thing I continually say, which
• 15:06
  Speaker 9: is money talks and crime walks. This is a very clear,
• 15:10
  Speaker 9: simple case to see. However, there are so many complicit
• 15:14
  Speaker 9: people from different governments around the world, our own government,
• 15:18
  Speaker 9: the Department of Justice. We just had the Epstein Files
• 15:21
  Speaker 9: Transparency Act. Everybody was applauding in Washington. Where have we
• 15:25
  Speaker 9: really gone with all of this? The only person we
• 15:27
  Speaker 9: have in jail is Ghislaine Maxwell. There are so many others,
• 15:31
  Speaker 9: and these files are showing us what our victims for
• 15:34
  Speaker 9: years came forward and told us about everything from orgies,
• 15:38
  Speaker 9: underage girls, so everything. All we needed was proof. The
• 15:42
  Speaker 9: proof is coming forward, remains to be seen, but this
• 15:45
  Speaker 9: is the tip of the iceberg.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Shrouded in the Fifth Amendment, will Ghislaine Maxwell finally cough
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: up the names of 25 or more mystery men that
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: could face charges? Again, joining us, an all-star panel, including
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: an Epstein survivor who is speaking out tonight. But first,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: to Sydney Sumner, joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter, And
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: she is joining us outside the federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas. Sydney,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: explain to me the jailhouse scandal.
• 16:21
  Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, almost a year ago, Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred
• 16:25
  Speaker 11: from a low-security prison in Tallahassee to the prison camp
• 16:30
  Speaker 11: directly behind me in Bryan, Texas. This is a low
• 16:34
  Speaker 11: security prison camp, minimum security prison camp, where Ghislaine has
• 16:39
  Speaker 11: bottled water, an unlimited supply of toilet paper. There's access
• 16:44
  Speaker 11: to programs like a puppy training program. There's other inmates
• 16:49
  Speaker 11: who are allowed to learn vocations such as nursing and
• 16:53
  Speaker 11: leave the property on a regular basis. And we're hearing
• 16:56
  Speaker 11: things like she's getting extremely preferential treatment, walking down the
• 17:00
  Speaker 11: entire prison anytime she has visitors.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Joining us tonight is a special guest. It's Haley Robson,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: an Epstein survivor. She is part of an organization called
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the Survivors, Inc., supporting survivors. sex assault and trafficking survivors. Haley,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious what your reaction is to Ghislaine Maxwell's,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and there's more to it, her prison scandal over, let
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: me just say, against all existing rules. She is a
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: sex trafficker convicted. That's a violent crime. You, of all people,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: can speak to that violence. Why is she at Bryan's?
• 17:46
  Speaker 12: I have said this since the very beginning. And when
• 17:48
  Speaker 12: I was at the Capitol Hill, I brought it to
• 17:50
  Speaker 12: not only the Democratic Party, but I've said this in
• 17:55
  Speaker 12: front of several individuals in Congress on both sides of
• 17:58
  Speaker 12: the spectrum. And I've said, why are we not putting
• 18:01
  Speaker 12: Ghislaine Maxwell back in prison? Todd Blanche keeps denying that
• 18:05
  Speaker 12: he went down there and made a deal with her,
• 18:07
  Speaker 12: which doesn't make sense to me, considering she should automatically
• 18:11
  Speaker 12: be precluded from this type of environment when she has
• 18:16
  Speaker 12: created a or committed a extremely violent act and not
• 18:20
  Speaker 12: just an extremely violent act, an act against children and
• 18:23
  Speaker 12: young women.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: It's absurd.
• 18:25
  Speaker 12: I'm not buying it. Todd Blanch can go choke on
• 18:28
  Speaker 12: a cactus with this whole entire administration.
• 18:31
  Speaker 11: The jig is up.
• 18:32
  Speaker 12: We know there was a deal to be made. And
• 18:33
  Speaker 12: if I am absolutely wrong, then put her back in prison.
• 18:38
  Speaker 12: Why has that not been done yet? How come we
• 18:41
  Speaker 12: don't know who made that deal? Who made that phone call?
• 18:44
  Speaker 12: And on top of that, this happened in Florida. So furthermore,
• 18:49
  Speaker 12: I want to know on a state level who was
• 18:52
  Speaker 12: involved in making that deal or who at least knew
• 18:54
  Speaker 12: about it. Who knew she was being moved? This is
• 18:58
  Speaker 12: Absolutely absurd.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: So many people have been dragged, and I mean innocent people,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: into Epstein's cesspool. I'm talking about Melinda Gates. How did
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: she get dragged into this?
• 19:16
  Speaker 13: Bill Clinton is one of the most frequently pictured with Epstein.
• 19:20
  Speaker 13: One set shows Clinton lounging shirtless in a hot tub
• 19:22
  Speaker 13: with Maxwell and a second woman, whose identity is hidden.
• 19:25
  Speaker 13: Clinton also pictured arm-in-arm with Epstein wearing a festive shirt
• 19:29
  Speaker 13: at a dinner and again beaming on Epstein's plane next
• 19:32
  Speaker 13: to Michael Jackson and Diana Ross.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: In an email written to himself, Epstein makes shocking claims.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Bill Gates contracted an STD sleeping with Russian girls and
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: turned to the financier for help securing antibiotics to slip
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to Melinda to cover up his infidelity. The link message
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: lashes out at Gates for ending their friendship, reading, to
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: add insult to injury, you then implore me to please
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: delete the emails regarding your STD, your request that I
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: provide you antibiotics that you can surreptitiously give to Melinda,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: and the description of your penis.
• 20:08
  Speaker 14: We walked into that clinic where they're giving that money
• 20:10
  Speaker 14: out to these people that are in the most dire
• 20:12
  Speaker 14: straits of poverty and sickness. It told them that the
• 20:16
  Speaker 14: money was coming from a, what.
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: Are you, class three sexual predator? Tier one.
• 20:20
  Speaker 14: Tier one's the highest and worst?
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: No, I'm the lowest. You're the lowest.
• 20:24
  Speaker 14: Okay, tier one, you're the lowest, but a criminal.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 20:27
  Speaker 14: That the money came from them. What percentage of people
• 20:29
  Speaker 14: do you estimate would say, I don't care, I want
• 20:32
  Speaker 14: the money for my children?
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: I would say everyone said, I want the money for
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: my children.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Josh Boswell joining us. He is chief investigative reporter, Daily Mail. Josh,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: is Lisa Phillips, Epstein's survivor, telling the truth? Is there
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: any reason to doubt her? I mean, we know that
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: he was obsessed with cameras. He had them everywhere he lived,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: on his yacht, you name it. So where's all that?
• 20:59
  Speaker 15: It is an excellent question. We have heard from the
• 21:03
  Speaker 15: DOJ that they've released everything, according to them. But then
• 21:07
  Speaker 15: Democrats are saying, no, there's another two and a half
• 21:11
  Speaker 15: million files that should have been released that weren't. Maybe
• 21:14
  Speaker 15: that data, those videos, that content is there. But in
• 21:19
  Speaker 15: terms of whether we should believe Lisa, I mean, what
• 21:23
  Speaker 15: she is saying is it corroborates other things that we've
• 21:28
  Speaker 15: heard from other victims. When you look at the pattern
• 21:31
  Speaker 15: of behavior by Epstein, all of these photos, he's clearly
• 21:33
  Speaker 15: being very careful to document all of these famous and
• 21:36
  Speaker 15: powerful people that he's bringing into his homes, that he's
• 21:39
  Speaker 15: bringing onto his island, that he is getting involved with
• 21:42
  Speaker 15: these young women, sometimes girls, minors. And if you look
• 21:47
  Speaker 15: at that pattern of behavior, it is consistent with someone
• 21:51
  Speaker 15: who is running a honeypot scheme. And that's exactly what
• 21:55
  Speaker 15: was alleged. by people in the intelligence community. Daily Mail,
• 21:59
  Speaker 15: we broke a story over the weekend that we're talking
• 22:02
  Speaker 15: to intelligence experts, people in the intelligence community who believe
• 22:06
  Speaker 15: that Epstein was running this as a human trafficking ring
• 22:09
  Speaker 15: to ensnare rich and powerful people, possibly for blackmail purposes.
• 22:13
  Speaker 15: And there are a lot of between him and Putin.
• 22:16
  Speaker 15: We have to ask these questions. Is there that compromise there?
• 22:20
  Speaker 15: Are there these videos? The DOJ has, potentially. According to Lisa,
• 22:24
  Speaker 15: that's what she's saying. and that they're not releasing. We
• 22:27
  Speaker 15: need to know.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: As we've discussed several times before, Mark Epstein, I have
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: always thought from day one that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: behind bars. And the single most convincing fact for me
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with politics. It has nothing to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: do with malfeasance or misconduct or bad guards, bad cameras, nothing.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: It has to do with the facts. It has to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: do with the markings on your brother's neck. I have handled, prosecuted,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: and investigated, and covered more homicides than I can count.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I can't even remember them all. When a person is
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: strangled by ligature, ligature strangulation, you will see a straight
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: across marking on the neck, typically furrowed. where the ligature,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: be it a rope, a stocking, furrows into the skin.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: When an individual takes their own life, you will see
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: a smiley mark from ear down toward the Adam's apple
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: and to the other ear because of the positioning of
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the rope, if it is a rope. So the marking
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: on your brother's neck, the first time I saw it,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: from having handled so many homicides, I did not believe
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: it could be anything other than homicide.
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: Yes, well, you're correct about the mark on his neck,
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: but there's other injuries to his body and other bruises
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: that could not have been self-inflicted. And this was either
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: overlooked or ignored by Dr. Samson, who was the chief
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: medical examiner, who said that Jeffrey took himself out. And
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: let me be really clear, she never saw Jeffrey's body.
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: She wasn't in the office that day. The two pathologists
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: that did the autopsy both came out saying this looks
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: like a homicide.
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: They wouldn't call it.
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: And the report coming out goes much deeper into the
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: marks and bruises on Jeffrey's body.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: You know, the other reason people are.
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: Calling this, saying that he took himself out, you know,
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: Barbara Sampson made that statement within days after Jeffrey died.
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: And Bill Barr, the attorney general, came out and publicly
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: stated that he personally watched the videotape from the camera.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: That was outside of the tier.
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: And he saw that nobody went in or out of
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: the tier and that convinced him it was a. Those
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: are the two reasons people think this was a Barbara
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: Sampson statement.
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: And Bill Barr statement.
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: Now, if you look at Bill Barr's statement, first of all,
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: with the recent release of the videotape, you could see that,
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: number one, you cannot see the door to the tier.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: That he was referring to.
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: And it's been shown many times that people could get
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: to that door and leave from that door without being
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: caught by that camera.
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: So just what the was he talking about? We also have.
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: Now seen in the middle of the night that orange
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: person going up the stairs, because you can only see
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: the left side of the staircase.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: So obviously somebody went up the stairs.
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: So again, what the was Bill Barr talking about when
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: he said nobody went in or out?
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: Somebody went up there.
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: Also, Bill Barr completely ignored the possibility that somebody already
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: on the tier in another cell could have gotten to Jeffrey,
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: done something, gone back into his cell without having to
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: go and come from the tier. A few months after
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: the death, I was told by a source that cell
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: doors were left.
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: Unlocked that night. I don't know how many. I don't
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: know whose.
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: But supposedly this information came from a lawyer of one
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: of the other inmates on the tier. So it makes
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: perfect sense when you put it all together that somebody
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: already on the tier could have done this. Also, to
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: think that somebody could get to that cell door, the
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: tier door, go in the tier, commit a crime, and
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: leave completely undetected is kind of asinine. So Bill Barr's
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: entire conclusion is based on bullshit. And it wouldn't hold
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: up in a court of law. And it wouldn't hold
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: up in a kindergarten class.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: So you believe, Mark, that this so-called handwritten note, now
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: unsealed by a federal judge, is really a fake intended
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to corroborate the official ruling your brother took his life
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: while waiting for a trial. You believe the note is
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: a fake.
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: Yes, I believe that the government knows, just like you
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: now know, that this report is coming out that will
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: prove that Jeffrey did.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: Not take his own life.
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: It'll prove it conclusively that Jeffrey could not have taken
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: his own life, as they say. So I believe this
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: is their attempt now to sow doubt about this report,
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: because this is going to be very damning when this
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: report comes out. So now they're trying to put doubt
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: in people's minds. It's like a propaganda thing. Yeah, I
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: don't believe the note. is real because, again, since there
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: was no prior attempt in July on Jeffrey's part to
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: take his own life, why would he have written such
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: a note?
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: It doesn't make sense to me or to anybody else
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: who looks at it that way.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Mark, you have not sat back and digested what was
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: being spoon-fed to you by the feds or the media. Yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your analysis before I begin peppering
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: you with questions as to whether your brother, Jeffrey Epstein,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: committed suicide.
• 28:11
  Speaker 16: Well, that doesn't seem to be a question anymore. It
• 28:14
  Speaker 16: was not a suicide. If you go back in time,
• 28:17
  Speaker 16: when Jeffrey was first autopsied the day after they found
• 28:21
  Speaker 16: his body, the initial death certificate said, under cause of death,
• 28:27
  Speaker 16: pending further study. They wouldn't call it a suicide or
• 28:31
  Speaker 16: a homicide at that point in time. But both of
• 28:33
  Speaker 16: the pathologists that were there at the autopsy, Dr. Kristen Roman,
• 28:39
  Speaker 16: who was a city pathologist whose autopsy it was, and
• 28:42
  Speaker 16: Michael Barton, who was there on my behalf, they came
• 28:45
  Speaker 16: out of the autopsy saying that they couldn't call it
• 28:48
  Speaker 16: a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide.
• 28:51
  Speaker 16: That's what they said.
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: I was there. They were talking to me.
• 28:56
  Speaker 16: That doesn't appear in the government report.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: It said pending further study.
• 29:02
  Speaker 16: When I've spoken to a number of pathologists, they've always
• 29:05
  Speaker 16: told me that if a death certificate says pending further study,
• 29:09
  Speaker 16: you don't get an answer usually for weeks or so
• 29:11
  Speaker 16: because something's being investigated, some studying's being done.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: That wasn't done here.
• 29:17
  Speaker 16: They never investigated Jeffrey's death as anything other than a suicide,
• 29:22
  Speaker 16: as they called it, Because, you know, the attorney, Bill Barr,
• 29:27
  Speaker 16: the attorney general at the time, came out and said
• 29:30
  Speaker 16: that he personally watched the videotape from outside of the
• 29:34
  Speaker 16: tier because we know the camera in the tier.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: Was not working or was not recording. That story has changed.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University author, Blood
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: A search.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: at Zorro Ranch for at least two girls' bodies. Now,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: first of all, hold you, Scott. Dave Mack, Crime Stories
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter. I just need two words out of you.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Where is Zorro Ranch?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: South of Santa Fe, New Mexico, 30 miles.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: See, I said two words and then you just blew that.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You blew that up. New Mexico. New Mexico, Joe Scott Morgan.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: New Mexico. Here in the U.S. Let me see Joe Scott, please.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, we're not talking about wrongdoing in the U.S.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Virgin Islands or in London or in France or in
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the stands. We hear a lot about from Lynn Shaw
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: where girls are imported. to Lolita Island for Jeffrey Epstein
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and all of his clients. But there is no client list.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Forget about that. That's BS. This is here on U.S.
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: Soil.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Tell me what you know.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, what I know is that they've had an email
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: that had come in in one of these dumps, in
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: one of these tranches of data that has been released.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: And of course, a lot of it's redacted. But what
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: was stated is that there are at least two victims,
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: according to the source, that have gone out and they
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: have stated that they used to work there at the
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Zorro Ranch. They claim that during some kind of wild
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: perverted sex act that two, not one, but two individuals,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: young women, were choked to death, that they were essentially asphyxiated.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: And then their remains were taken out onto this property, which, Nancy,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: to say it's vast is an understatement. taken out and
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: they were buried in the hills surrounding this area. It's
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: very nonspecific. But right now, according to what we're hearing,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: there's a search going on of this property looking for
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: these remains. I have to think about it's looking for
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: a needle in a stack of needles right now.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: To Lynn Shaw joining us, founder, director of Lynn's Warriors. Lynn,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the way the girls were lured there, it's classic. It's textbook.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: They were flown there on private planes. They went swimming,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: horseback riding, posing for pictures, shopping sprees, and then came
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the rape. Yeah.
• 32:26
  Speaker 9: It's called the grooming process, Nancy, where one gains the
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: trust of a vulnerable person. And certainly for a young girl,
• 32:36
  Speaker 9: a teen, a young woman being around power, and wealth,
• 32:40
  Speaker 9: celebrities or government officials. It's so exciting. I do have
• 32:43
  Speaker 9: to ask though, and I'm always asking, where were the
• 32:45
  Speaker 9: parents when all of this was going on? But the
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: grooming process is simply gaining the trust, giving expensive presents,
• 32:53
  Speaker 9: treating them like they've never been treated in their life,
• 32:55
  Speaker 9: making them feel so extra special that these young impressionable
• 33:00
  Speaker 9: girls and women would do anything Right. To be part
• 33:03
  Speaker 9: of this. So the next step is, OK, we're going
• 33:05
  Speaker 9: to fly off to the ranch. We're going to have
• 33:07
  Speaker 9: a great time. We're going to go horseback riding. We're
• 33:09
  Speaker 9: going to have a chef. We're going to have massages
• 33:11
  Speaker 9: and we're going to have, you know, mani pedis and
• 33:13
  Speaker 9: all kinds of stuff and shopping. OK, that happens for
• 33:16
  Speaker 9: a little while and then they go in. Typical, you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 9: predator for the kill. And the girls are trapped. The
• 33:23
  Speaker 9: young women are trapped. Again, as I was told repeatedly,
• 33:27
  Speaker 9: there was nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. They couldn't
• 33:30
  Speaker 9: get away. I, in my mind, have nightmares about girls.
• 33:34
  Speaker 9: One actually told me she tried running and running and running,
• 33:37
  Speaker 9: and they caught up to her and grabbed her and
• 33:39
  Speaker 9: brought her back to the house. This is what she
• 33:41
  Speaker 9: reported to me. So after all of this, there was
• 33:44
  Speaker 9: nowhere for them to go. And remember, there was also
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: an airstrip on this property. A source of mine just
• 33:49
  Speaker 9: told me to look at this property and to properly
• 33:53
  Speaker 9: do digs and things like that would actually be eight
• 33:56
  Speaker 9: and a half to nine years to properly look over
• 33:59
  Speaker 9: all these thousands of acres. This is a sexual predator,
• 34:02
  Speaker 9: Ghislaine Maxwell, all of their complicit people with them. I
• 34:06
  Speaker 9: have to end with in asking you, why do we
• 34:09
  Speaker 9: have to keep begging for files to be released? names
• 34:12
  Speaker 9: to be released. These victims have told us names over
• 34:15
  Speaker 9: the years. Let's go and find them. Let's, you know,
• 34:18
  Speaker 9: charge them with something. Let's ask them to show us.
• 34:21
  Speaker 9: Let's question people. I do not understand the.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Holdup, but you know what?
• 34:25
  Speaker 9: I fear we will never get to the bottom of
• 34:27
  Speaker 9: this crime ever.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Speaking of the victims at Zorro Ranch that many people
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: are just now hearing about, and this is happening under
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: our own noses on U.S.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: Soil. Listen.
• 34:41
  Speaker 17: And I suddenly realized I had to like just be
• 34:45
  Speaker 17: nice and be friendly because I realized that I was
• 34:48
  Speaker 17: in great danger. And he's assaulting you and the other
• 34:51
  Speaker 17: women there.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: And they're laughing.
• 34:52
  Speaker 17: Yeah, they saw and they just laughed. I was really,
• 34:55
  Speaker 17: really petrified. And, you know, it just really changed me,
• 34:58
  Speaker 17: the whole thing, you know, going through this. And I
• 35:03
  Speaker 17: just didn't know what to do. And I just really
• 35:05
  Speaker 17: thought that I was going to die.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: That is Juliet Bryant, an Epstein victim, speaking to our
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: friends at Sky News.
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, it's classic. It's textbook luring. Money was nothing
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
• 35:22
  Speaker 16: Nothing.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: She stood by and watched this happen. She lured the
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: girls there. She took part in the assaults. And now
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: she's sitting in club fed, running the jail. But this
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: is classic. You know, Nancy, it is classic.
• 35:38
  Speaker 18: And to add to what Lynn Shaw said, which was
• 35:41
  Speaker 18: so profound and riveting to just to listen to her,
• 35:44
  Speaker 18: you know, pedophiles also, they, they lure other pedophiles too.
• 35:49
  Speaker 18: So there was a whole group of people on this
• 35:52
  Speaker 18: ranch who were in on it. It's like it was
• 35:54
  Speaker 18: operating like a cult in a sense where all the
• 35:57
  Speaker 18: benefits flow to the leader. But I think another thing
• 36:01
  Speaker 18: that Jeffrey Epstein did to lure these girls is that he, he,
• 36:05
  Speaker 18: propped himself up as this kind of guru, and he
• 36:09
  Speaker 18: started giving them advice about their future. That's a little
• 36:13
  Speaker 18: bit like P.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Diddy, right?
• 36:14
  Speaker 18: You know, I'll make you a star. I'm going to
• 36:16
  Speaker 18: give you a singing contract. This guy, Epstein, was so
• 36:21
  Speaker 18: good at getting money from other people, and he lorded
• 36:25
  Speaker 18: over these girls and made them feel like they would
• 36:27
  Speaker 18: be rich and famous too. And by the time he
• 36:30
  Speaker 18: began molesting them, Nancy, a part of the grooming process
• 36:34
  Speaker 18: began is that for the victim, confusion sets in. These
• 36:38
  Speaker 18: girls would have told themselves, well, I went here voluntarily.
• 36:41
  Speaker 18: I enjoyed the mani-pedis and the movies and the cash.
• 36:45
  Speaker 18: And I did tell him that I wanted him to
• 36:47
  Speaker 18: be a part of my future. Maybe I caused this
• 36:50
  Speaker 18: to happen. That is the confusion of the victim until
• 36:54
  Speaker 18: the terror sets in and they try to get away.
• 36:57
  Speaker 18: And then they are in this isolated place. You know, Nancy,
• 37:00
  Speaker 18: it's like the... The FLDS cult, remember when the women
• 37:06
  Speaker 18: tried to get away, other cult members actually went after them,
• 37:10
  Speaker 18: attacked them, brought them back, tortured them, brutalized them. So
• 37:16
  Speaker 18: there's going to be an intimidation process on this ranch
• 37:18
  Speaker 18: that when the girls try to get away, they're brought
• 37:21
  Speaker 18: back and probably beaten and tortured even more. There was
• 37:26
  Speaker 18: no getting out of it at that point. The noose
• 37:28
  Speaker 18: was around their neck, metaphorically and literally.
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell, how is it that she can clam up
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: and sit at Club Fed running the place, having every
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: perk possible, and nothing's happening while we are looking for
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: bodies at Zorro Ranch? To Dave Mack joining us, what
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: can you tell me about Ghislaine Maxwell, who's nothing more
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: than a pimp?
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Nancy.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Nancy.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison in Texas and apparently works
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: out every day but doesn't bathe. The other inmates say
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: she is so nasty inside and out that prison smells
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: bad as it is and she's the worst. She doesn't
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: wait in line in the chow line. She just buffaloes
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: her way straight through. And you know what, Nancy? The
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: inmates allow it to happen because, A, she's nasty. B,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the woman has filed 800 complaints in one year against
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: people and things in the prison. she is known throughout
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: the prison to get things done by filing complaints and
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: been very effective at it. One good example is Ghislaine
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Maxwell actually taught an etiquette class in prison, then took
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: 12 weeks, one day a week, teaching law and how
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: to file things for inmates. Then she actually tried to
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: take advantage of a religious ceremony where the kitchen staff
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: was pouring the grape juice for this particular Jewish ceremony,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: and Ghislaine wanted to pour her own. And the inmate said,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you're not coming in the kitchen. I know you don't
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: bathe after you work out.
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: You stink.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: You surely aren't washing your hands. You're not coming in here.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: The inmate said, within a day, Ghislaine Maxwell was in
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: the kitchen doing her own thing.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: This is DOJ video we've just obtained of her in
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: her cell. Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall, explain the stink. Why
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: is it that we hear about, for instance, Hollywood stars
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: and really, really rich people, they don't think they have
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: to bathe?
• 39:43
  Speaker 18: This is actually a peculiarity of sociopathy. And I'll explain
• 39:49
  Speaker 18: it to you, Nancy. When you are so grandiose that
• 39:53
  Speaker 18: you feel that you are at the center of things,
• 39:56
  Speaker 18: that you're limitless, that everybody looks up to you and
• 39:59
  Speaker 18: admires you, you feel no need to bathe because you're
• 40:04
  Speaker 18: such and such doesn't stink, right? That's where that phrase
• 40:07
  Speaker 18: comes from. You feel that people will admire you no
• 40:12
  Speaker 18: matter how you look. no matter how you smell, that
• 40:15
  Speaker 18: you are beloved. And that's why, you know, it's interesting
• 40:19
  Speaker 18: when I have patients come into my office who are disheveled,
• 40:23
  Speaker 18: poorly dressed, but maybe they're celebrities.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I do have it.
• 40:27
  Speaker 18: That's one of the tells or the signs of pathological
• 40:31
  Speaker 18: narcissism because they are not concerned about how other people
• 40:36
  Speaker 18: view them because they believe that they are constantly admired.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: death of state's witness Jeffrey Epstein, dial 800-225-5324.
• 40:50
  Speaker 8: Repeat, 800-225-5324.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: We remember an American hero trooper, Kevin Traynor, Massachusetts State Police.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Just 30 killed in the line of duty after three
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: years on the force. leaving behind a devastated fiancé, Jessica.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: American hero, trooper, Kevin Treanor. Thank you to our guests
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: for being with us, but especially to you for being
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: with us tonight. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight, but
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.