Latest / The Speak Life Podcast / Disney! Think Of The Children! || SLP405

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Disney! Think Of The Children! || SLP405 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to episode 405 of the Speak Life podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Thomas Thurrigood.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I work at Speak Life and I'm gonna hand straight over to Paul Feasy and Nate Morganlock for the discussion.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I will catch you at the end with Paul for some final reflections.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: See you later.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well hello and welcome to the Speakeasy.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paul Feesey, and as always, I'm joined by Nate Morganlock.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, how are you doing?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm okay.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Bit of a cold, so I might be coughing and spluttering.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've been suffering a little bit today, haven't you?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have a little, but I've I've had some lozenges, which I do find helps.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I'm I may run off and go and get another lozenge at some point.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Part way through.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how have you been?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had a good had had a good Easter?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we had a very good Easter.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: We managed to get rid of these interns for a short while, which was nice.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: That really uh gave us a bit more room around the place.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, been well and uh excited to get back into the topic for this evening.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is so yes, if you've you may have seen the thumbnail already, it's called Disney.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Think of the children.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Think of the children.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, we're uh thinking a bit about the power and influence that uh Disney has to kind of shape the culture and particularly young minds.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh we thought we'd give you a bit of a kind of potted history of Disney.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you probab people probably know at least a bit about Disney already.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it, yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: You may have heard of Disney.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Disney, some of you may have heard of them.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they employ over 190,000 people, um, but apparently three-quarters of those are actually just in the theme parks, theme park divisions.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as a corporation, they're valued at 240 billion dollars, which isn't too shabby, as things go.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost as much as Speak Life.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not far.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And uh how much would Elon Musk need to raise to be able to buy Disney?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, so um, yeah, and so Disney was founded back in uh 1923, uh, but they really went big in 1928 with uh Steamboat Willie, uh, which introduced Mickey Mouse to the world, um who's gone on to be one of the most recognizable sort of cartoon characters in the world, I suppose.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and then in 1934 they began their first feature-length film, which was I believe it was Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, I guess how do you know how far over budget it went in terms of percentage?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: 400% over budget, 400% over budget, but and uh but it was a massive hit, so they basically did okay out of it in the end.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that kind of launched them, and then since then they've produced dozens of groundbreaking and acclaimed films.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's evolved into this massive company now, um, which owns all kinds of different entertainment properties and media kind of um properties as well.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: They've got theme parks across the world, they opened their first one in 1955, um, and you know, now they own things like uh, I mean, probably the most famous ones we already know are gonna be things like Marvel, yeah, Lucasfilm, um, Pixar is obviously a part of Disney, but things like ABC, ESPN as well.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'll see later, even more things that we probably never even thought about.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they've become one of the sort of most iconic companies in the world, they were global phenomena, yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they are probably sort of the storytellers of kind of the the first order, really, aren't they?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're the highest order because they've been telling stories for years in their films and shows that have kind of sort of captured people's imaginations and have made a huge impact on popular culture.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of thinking a little bit about what is the impact they've had, yeah, and how do we engage with that as Christians?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so you say 1923.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was something I didn't know.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't know Roy Disney was Walt Disney's brother.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did you actually know that?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did actually know that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Roy O.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Disney.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Roy O.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Disney, yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can't imagine the Roy Disney Company, though, can you?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Walt is like, and Walt Disney, even just as a name, because it's associated with all of these stories and all this kind of uh pixie dust, is so evocative.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sound so fun, and like Walt Disney Company is all kind of there.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so if it's 1923, then that would mean that next year would be 100 years of the company.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, and yes, it's been interesting to see over that century the ways in which um the company or or the animation studios, as you say, has grown into other things, but also the way in which its storytelling philosophy has changed, and also its ability to produce um high-quality uh animated films, um, and of course, it's obviously involved in live action movies as well, but just just the sense in which you have a number of eras of of Disney films, yeah, um, and sort of those originals from 1937 with Snow White through to, I think the latest Disney movie was Incanto, I think.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you could put Pixars turning red on that because it was a Pixar movie, but anyway, anyway, we're splitting hairs.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um in some ways, part of the reason I was interested to talk about this is because um not only do I do the speakeasy, I do another podcast with uh uh BBZ sitcom writer James Carey called Popcorn Parenting, where we look at movies, mythology, and the messiah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And as we've thought about family films and faith in Jesus, we've obviously had an awful lot of of uh the films we've looked at have come from the Disney stable.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we've we've tried in that podcast to really drill down into the particular story that is being told in any in a particular film and to investigate that from a or analyse that from a Christian point of view to ask what is good about this, what can we be we can celebrate, what can do we need to reject from this, and what is possible to provide a conversation with your children, with your family that can be pretty positive.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: So the popcorn parenting podcast uh is something you might like to check out.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's about 25 uh different films that you can uh listen to us uh rabbit on about.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the mythology of of uh the world is something I'm fascinated by, and so Disney, as the most globally approved storytellers uh who have taken storytelling in in incredible directions, are worthy of investigation, not just from a Christian point of view, but like everyone has to come to terms with Disney at some point and ask questions about um what is the philosophy behind this film?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: What is is there an agenda that's being pushed here?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is there what formative influence is this having on my children or on me?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's probably wider than just, I mean, when you think of Disney in your head, you probably you think of animated films, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we we've already said we in in our kind of we've probably got on our radar that it is a bit wider than that, that it's Marvel, yeah, that it's Star Wars, but it's even wider than that, isn't it?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are so many companies that you kind of go, I mean, I we'll see later, but I I apparently GoPro is owned by Disney as well.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So even all these companies, there's Disney is still there behind the scenes, kind of you know, putting the strings.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And in in part because the advances in film technology and the advances in in cameras and all that sort of stuff is going to allow storytellers to tell stories in different ways, and so it makes absolute sense for any animation studio to be at the cutting edge of the development of new technology so that it can do that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Pixar, the the the acquisition of Pixar, they always had a kind of distribution uh relationship with Pixar from the early 90s.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: But if you go from 1937, what is Walt Disney able to do with Snow White and Seven Dwarfs, this brand new technology that's being being showcased in that film, and then you take it to something like uh you know, um uh the Pixar determination to make the the first feature-length computer animated film, which is uh Toy Story from 95.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's 95, yeah, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you you it it would make sense for people to think about the development of the technology alongside of that, and so as the company grows, clearly it's going to want to have you know first dibs on all this technology, sure.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that kind of makes sense, but um, yes, as we say, the the cultural impact of Disney is uh is is a force to be reckoned with, whoever you are.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: But for Christians in particular, I think there's a there's a there's an interest because we are people who are telling our children a story, we're telling our children the story of salvation.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So this morning as a team, we looked at uh Psalm 78, and that begins with this uh injunction that the people of Israel should pass on the story of salvation to their children, they should tell their children that the the story of Israel, and that we, as those who uh are in the New Testament, as those who have the story of Jesus, we're gonna be heavily involved in sharing that story with our children.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's essential if we're people who understand the power of story, that we engage with the most storytellers in the world, in the world.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of the and one of the books you mentioned in relation to this was a book called The Trojan Mouse by Samuel Lively.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I've not read the book, but I did do a bit of look at uh kind of research on it this afternoon.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he talks about sort of the messaging through uh films, and he talks about how since the jungle book in 1967, there's been this sort of slow trajectory where stories have been told from what he calls a loyalist morality to move to a revolutionary morality.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he described loyalism uh as resting on three pillars.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he talks about, so I guess he's saying that at this point Disney films would have had these sort of principles behind them: a clear moral and social hierarchy, which includes a higher power resembling Christian God ruling over all of creation at the top, and therefore flowing uh man over nature, civilization over primitivism, parents over children, patriarch over family.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: That was his first one.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Second one was the existence of good and evil, along with their companion concepts of justice, mercy, sin, and redemption.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third was the individual and principle of sacrifice, which includes the values of hard work, personal responsibility, and a willingness to sacrifice the present for future.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the the summary I had just went basically the revolutionary is just like the opposite of all those things.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of moved from, I suppose, a quite principally a kind of a moral kind of Christian type world, even if we're not thinking, you know, obviously you can have films which are entirely like that and are not very Christian at all in some ways.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's very much moved away from that, is kind of what he was saying into something else.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think so.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: What one of the things some lively does in that book, so it's published in 2019, and he so it's called the Trojan Mouse because you know, here is this, you know, hidden within the house of mouse are all these warriors who are gonna kind of come in and destroy your your family, you know.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that the storytelling power is understood there as um as this stealthy thing in which you can you can sneak in a whole worldview into people's lives by telling them a powerful story.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that is that is the dark side of of storytelling, is that it can of course be used for ill as well as for good.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the stealthy power of story, which is something that C.S.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Lewis has talked about.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we've referenced that before, that the the stories can steal past watchful dragons, so that you have to be careful about what stories you listen to and what stories you tell and what stories you allow your children to engage with.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Samuel Lively's definitely coming from that position of saying uh things have moved, and and I think, yeah, as you say, 1967, yeah, he was gonna say from the Joe onwards.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think even though he outlines a series of of eras within Disney, uh, he I wonder whether this loyalist progressive uh no loyalist revolutionary revolutionary revolutionary thing is perhaps a little bit like oh Disney used to be great and unproblematic for Christians, but now it's an issue.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say that even those earlier films, whilst I take his point that they have some of these senses of hierarchy of good and evil and and that sort of stuff, and that things may have shifted, those earlier Disney films still need to be watched closely and carefully, yeah, because there are ideas within them which could be unhelpful for um well that Christians might not want their children to engage with.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I mean, the the at the end of this kind of summary, I was look looking at the book, the guy was kind of saying that um even in those original films, which maybe had those values, I mean what he says here is making young loyalists of our children may have positive societal effects, but that's not enough.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: The spiritually dead must be made spiritually alive.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So even you might watch those films and go, oh, look, here's some kind of nice, isn't it, 1950s loveliness, you know, um Stepford Wives kind of that kind of era, I feel.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but he's saying that that in itself isn't inherently Christian, you can just with nice morals, yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, you don't you don't just want like stories that turn your children into Pharisees, like oh look, they're staunchly conservative now and have no concept of grace or mercy or whatever else it is, but you know, they've got a they've got a a framework for understanding the positives of tradition or hierarchy or or or or patriarchy or whatever.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that's also not, as you say, a Christian conception, yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: As in, it's not a properly Christian conception because you need to have these ideas um fully developed, you know, you need to engage with them from a Christian point of view.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so these, I mean, Disney stuff is so kind of all-encompassing because they own so much and they put out so much all the time that it does affect, you know, what it is shaping people.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading an article earlier about like how has it affected sort of millennials who grew up in that era from sort of the little mermaid, you know, that sort of I think that's the beginning of sort of what do they call it, like the Renaissance era, or like basically when you get that and sort of Beauty and the Beast and a lad in that kind of era and the Lion King all in close succession, where it Disney's kind of back as this powerhouse, and um, you know, it was just kind of saying it's obviously had an influence on millennials in certain ways they approach work and things, and you know, how they they don't find fulfillment in work and blah blah blah and bits like that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was reading a thing about you know pop pop culture earlier, and uh it's a pop culture is the prevailing worldview expressed primarily through books, movies, music, television, advertising, visual arts.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Popular culture is worthy of study for active Christians and those in ministry because it both shapes and reflects those within culture.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he said it's everywhere, like the air we breathe.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, there we go.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, what?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it illustrates who we are, what we are, and tries to identify why we're here.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, I thought that was such a useful thing because I know in some Christian circles there's very much this kind of idea that you ought to hold all popular culture stuff basically very much at arm's length and not engage with it at all.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is just the world and it is wrong.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think there's value in understanding because the world is so steeped in it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I heard Ted Turner, he was quoting someone else, but he said about popular culture, you know, if if religion is the opium of the masses, then popular culture or pop culture is the hardcore Afghani heroine.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's how you know you think how much people turn on their, you know, they're on the Netflix, they're on the Disney Plus, they're on the YouTube, whatever it is.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are so steeped in what pop culture is telling us, and the messages are non-stop that actually, as Christians, you're right, we do need to kind of stop and to look at it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't mean necessarily we're gonna chuck it all out and go, yeah, oh, yeah, you know, it's not it's not a blanket ban and say, Yeah, we never must watch Disney.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's and that's why I think it's gotta be it's gotta be a wisdom issue.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: There has to be a you know, people have to engage with these things at the level they feel is the right level for them to engage with.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it might be, and that's talking about pop culture broadly, yeah, yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Rather than Disney in particular, it might be that people say, Well, absolutely we'll not watch Disney because of what you know we've discovered about Disney.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and fine, you know, like the great thing about these things is they are optional.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no Christian is is duty bound to engage with any pop culture thing whatsoever.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the there will be questions about what stage in your, you know, particularly as parents, what stage in your sorry, your child's life.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I need lozenges quick.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um at what stage in your in your child's life are you prepared to allow them to watch this thing because the power of story is so and and the power of of of moving pictures and sound and and the the songs and and everything that these things will stick, they will stick with your child, and you will they may find those things very difficult to shake off.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so how we you know decide what is right for us to engage with at any particular point is going to be a significant question for us.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: We we need to think Christianly about our consumption of pop culture, yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I think that that takes me back to I mean the idea of when do you allow your child to watch something, and it may be that there is there are things within things you allow them to watch.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean it's gonna be within things you allow them to watch, there are gonna be things that you go, that is not a Christian worldview.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but again, it's uh just remembered that Ted Turner thing.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I might you might even have been there in the world.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I was a few years ago.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um but he I remember him saying specifically he was watching uh the Gotham series with his daughter, I think.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a scene in that where there's a bully who's been picking on Bruce Wayne, okay, and Alfred takes Bruce Wayne, kind of he's at this point sort of 13, 14, takes him to the bully's house, yeah, and he knocks on and Bruce Wayne knocks on the door and basically just lays the kid out, you know, smacks, you know, punches him in the face, and then Alfred the butler comes up and he's like, you know, if you ever touch him again, you know, all this kind of stuff, very threatening and whatnot.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, Alfred's kind of teaching him to stand up for himself, you know, against the bullies, you know, because he's gonna become the Batman, you know.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um hold on, spoilers.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, sorry.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh wait till you hear about Darth Ada.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh he said that his daughter at that point just said, That is so wrong.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you know, she's because she's like, that that's just not the way.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he said they had a really good chat off the back of that about you know I was gonna say, what would Jesus do in that situation?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it was it was a situation a conversation about what is the Christian response in the face of the bully?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is it to turn around and basically just pound them into submission, or is there a different way?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now some people might say, Oh, you shouldn't expose your kids to that kind of thing, but obviously in that setting, that context allowed them to have some kind of conversation was a gospel thing.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of, I suppose, what we did when we were looking at our movie tag, there are lots of things in all those movies where you go, it's not a very Christian thing, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, but you're pulling out the threads and going, What's the kind of gospel stuff in there?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for good or for ill.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation went out live on my YouTube channel.
• 21:18
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• 21:24
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• 21:29
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• 21:30
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• 21:34
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• 21:39
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• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get back to the podcast.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And absolutely, and trying to see what is it about this particular story, this particular film, that has resonance with parts of scripture, with parts of the Bible.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: So because that's going to be our guide, because you know, as we've we've said, the story that we live in, that we actually do live in, and that we are are impressing upon our children, and that we're sharing with our children, we're using to help our children have an understanding of the world, is the story of redemption revealed to us in scripture.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if we've been given that, that will then be not just what we can look at, but the way that we can look at everything else.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And there is a really significant value in taking those opportunities as pop culture can bring them up to us, um, and as culture can bring them up to us, and you know, and and great literature can bring them up to us, as aside from you know, just um the latest iteration of a comic book story.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the that there are ways in which we can can have rich, theologically informed conversation with our children, and which can help us to enjoy our children, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like there's something really, you know, um really joyful about sharing great stories with your with your kids.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the challenge for us as we think about something like like Disney is to think, well, to what extent can you do that?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, where do you need to be where?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the reason some of this came onto the radar, I mean, you know more about this than I do, was there's there's a sort of bill happening in the states in Florida, in Florida, one of the 50 states, yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um which has kind of brought Disney into this sort of slightly political realm.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because well, can you tell us a bit about what this thing is and why Disney have got it?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bill called the Parental Rights and Education Bill, which I think is called uh H B 1557 or something like that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And um I've I've read it, you can you can find it online, it's it's actually very short, and basically um Republican Governor Ron uh DeSantis uh introduced this bill, um, and it really talks about parental rights in education.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's to what extent can can schools, public schools in Florida, by which they mean state schools, because obviously public school doesn't mean like pros-private school in the US, um what public schools are allowed to talk about with children at particular ages and are allowed to instruct children on at particular ages, and the amount that they have to be getting permission from parents in order to have those conversations.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the thing that really drew attention of the the media was the fact that uh it prohibits the teaching of the instruction of sex education um to grades kindergarten to third grade, which Micah, can you remind me how old is third grade?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like is it eight years old?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's up to eight, I think.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So from year year three in British terms is kind of eight years old.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it might be slightly, I think they're slightly out of sync anyway.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, so it's the youngest children, infant school essentially, right?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that there would be um a ban on basically sex education uh being taught to children of that age, and that schools had a responsibility to engage parents in that.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the way that that was then was then taken by the you know uh the progressive media and the the left wing was to to call it the don't say gay bill.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: So this bill was called parental rights in education, was then returned the don't say gay bill, and it said you can't, you know, you're not allowed to mention being gay, and you're not allowed to mention LGBTQ plus issues.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: This therefore is an oppressive piece of legislation that is attempting to erase gay people and LGBTQ plus people, and therefore it must be must be stopped.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So um Disney, who were I think the largest employer in Florida because of the the theme party was then put under immense pressure from um a small number of its LGBTQ plus uh staff members to make a statement about this.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Disney basically said, we don't really want to get involved, and then were kind of their hands were sort of forced as as you know employees kind of um were became much more active in trying to trying to generate a a statement from the company.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Disney then comes out with a a statement to say we don't believe that this don't say gay bill should be allowed to pass.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then um Ron DeSantis, who by all accounts is likely to become the uh uh a Republican uh candidate for presidential nomination in 2024, he then decides to take on Disney by putting in more legislation which would remove a I think it's a special tax uh situation for Disney and to prevent them from having certain freedoms that they had to build and and and plan things within the Disney parks.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: So effectively you've got this this battle now between which is involving the the state um the the state government, the schools, and a private company, and also in the middle of it are parental rights in terms of children.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: So within this, you've got this question, this fundamental question about whose children are these?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do they belong to their parents?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are they under the the the kind of uh control and and under the responsibility of their parents?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: What responsibility do their teachers have for them?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: What responsibility does the state have?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And weirdly, what responsibility does Disney, which is obviously a company which has an awful lot of children involved in it because it makes animated films and runs theme parks.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So there are huge questions about who is responsible for the child and who gets to instruct the child and who is having an influence on the way the child thinks that come right down into the middle of this.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what then took it further was that a journalist called his name Christopher Rufo um decided uh that I don't know how he managed to do this, but he managed to get hold of some video clips of some private um Disney staff meetings that were on uh Zoom or something, and released onto Twitter, I think, some excerpts from these meetings in which high-level Disney employees uh were talking about having a particular agenda that they wanted to achieve certain things within LGBTQ plus issues, and that might be a you know the queering of stories or whatever else it is, and that was the thing which then led to the um uh the response in saying this isn't a don't say gay bill, this is a okay groomer bill.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: So inside of like, oh no, we're gonna you've renamed it this thing, which is a distortion of what it is, we're gonna say that if you believe that the this bills for children, then you must be a groomer.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so you've got this incredibly toxic environment in which people are are are attacking each other and thinking, what is the way that this thing can just be taken further and further and further and further?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And from a Christian point of view, we want to say, no, the the God is ultimately responsible for children, He is given that responsibility to parents.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: There are family, there is the state, and and the church, and within that, there actually isn't really a place for a multinational storytelling corporation like Disney, and so as Christians, we have to consider how we engage with um Disney, Disney Plus, Disney theme parks, everything else, all the merchandising.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and as I said before, we have to think Christianly about the media we consume, we have to be careful with that sort of stuff because it's so powerful and we know the power of it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I suppose one of the things we were talking about, um, thinking about this then was that if if let's say Disney are pushing a more progressive agenda, or even if they were decided to push a more uh kind of traditional kind of values system through, um the temptation is people to jump on that and be like, well, look, this company is you know so so progressive, or this company is on our side because it's believing these traditional things, and actually, I think some of our discussion has been around the idea that they don't really care, you know, the Disney don't care about LGBTQ plus rights by themselves, yeah.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't really care about you know traditional values, and then they have that battle even within them now in the West, it's very much we'll give the LGBTQ things, but of course, there's a lot of editing and stuff that goes on to make stuff work in China and Eastern Park.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they can re remove scenes from films so that they can feel free to release them in China, and and there's a great question to ask if if this the scene can be removed from a particular film and the film still holds together, then there's a question about whether this was really doing the job that people thought it was doing in terms of because if they really cared, let's say they they did care about progressive kind of ideologies, yeah, they would just say to China, up yours China, yeah, we believe in this, and this is bigger than that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: But clearly, yeah, what talks is the money.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and if they cared about human rights, they would be asking serious questions about the you know treatment of Uyghur Muslims in in China, yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And would be discussion around Mulan, wasn't there?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah with the filming of that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got this, you know, as a corporation, their concern is to make money, like they want to make as much money as possible.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's what they're in the game for.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you can tell that by the what they've acquired over the years, their assets.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully this is going to work.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're we should be able to show you.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: We found an excellent graphic earlier that shows us what it is that Disney own.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully, this coming up.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is this coming up on the screen?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: See this, guys?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we found this, and I have to scroll around it.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Companies in Disney's own.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so if we just have a go quick look through all this, I mean there's ones here that we will know, it's a lovely graphic, and we might put the link down in the thing for you.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Marvel, you can see so you know, a lot of things contained within Marvel there, the Marvel Studios, as well as all the comics.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's all the stuff here to do with Walt Disney Studios, and in the middle here, they've acquired Lucasfilm, including things like Industrial Light and Magic, um, and all the stuff that goes with that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: LucasArts, Lucas Online.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can see a massive kind of portfolio of parks and experiences here.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in Shanghai, Hong Kong, you've got the Disneyland California, you've got the main sort of Florida resorts, Disneyland Paris.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then um, I mean, ABC, all kinds of things there, probably lots of channels.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you're American, you might know more of these than maybe we do here.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Times Square Studios, um, all kinds of stuff.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of things down here.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think these ones in um it is color-coded, it's hard to remember what they all are.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you see, we've got Hulu here, okay.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all kinds of you know, various software companies, things that you know you might not have even come across.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a construction company over here.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've got this kind of stuff, um ESPN, so lots of stuff here under the ESPN uh banner as well.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um lots more TV stuff for Disney there, theatrical groups, music groups, um, and then over here, you know, Ender Mol, 20th Century Fox as well.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Sky, so in the UK, Sky PLC, National Geographic, History Channel, those kind of things.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's absolutely stonking the amount of stuff they've got, they've got their fingers in many pies there.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the idea that they are not about the money, yeah, yeah, seems very unlikely.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and that is the you know, the the measure of their success as a company is is simply that they are able to keep growing, keep increasing, acquiring, like aggressively acquiring other competitors so that they own everything.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: And what's hilarious is that if the Disney Corporation was to tell a story in which a corporation like Disney existed, they would be the bad guys.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just don't you have all of these great stories about someone like you know raging against this kind of gigantic, you know, um organization, these big evil capitalists who are just there to make the money and making these big decisions that you like crush everyone underneath.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: And inevitably, we we've been kind of programmed to think of them as the bad guys, yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it it is just baffling that's yeah, but it's not that they're not in one sense, they're not a hypocritical company because you could say, Hey, look, over here you're pushing the you know these agendas, but yet over in the east you're doing something completely different.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's completely hypocritical.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would be hypocritical if their big thing was these ideologies, but their big thing is how do we make a profit?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're absolutely consistent on that all the way through.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't you can't pull them up on that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're doing, and as a company, they're incredibly successful.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: You don't make a$240,$240 billion company by you know being inconsistent on making profits.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the the the hypocrisy is in a sense that they just you know say one thing to one group of people to make money with them and one thing to another group of people to make money with them.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all driven by by the shareholders.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the question, I suppose, is the extent to which people feel compelled, like under obligation, to watch the next Disney movie or to you know go to the park or to buy the toys and the t-shirt.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: But particularly though, that it that and because their main, I suppose in the main, or at least as you think of it, a big chunk of what they do is for children, yeah, is aimed at children, and even adults who love Disney, and you do get those kind of people who are quite invested in it, yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Have it's come from a childhood thing.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, again, I was reading earlier about them.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I thought this was a really kind of interesting quote.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, one reason Disney's appeal and merchandising is so effective is because when Disney releases a film, it's accompanied by mass marketing of toys, character bedsheets, promotions at fast food restaurants, and more.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: An undisputed pioneer in cross-marketing was Walt Disney.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, critic Henri Henri Giroux voices the suspicion that Disney's pretense of innocence functions as little more than a promotional mask that covers its aggressive marketing techniques and influence in educating children to the virtues of becoming active consumers.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, that's the totally it's all about making your children consumers.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because what is it like do they really care what which t-shirt you're buying from the Disney store?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Has it you know whether it's got Mickey with rainbow ears to celebrate you know pride or something, or whether it's got you know Mickey with stars and stripes ears or union jack ears to the same color.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: They exactly you do they like that's the that's the idea that your your engagement with this is based upon keeping you as a consumer, as a customer, and as a as a consumer of products that cannot satisfy, and that they are are kind of designed not to satisfy.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: So like the stories never end.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and that's so that's another huge thing about this, which which uh you know for me, you know, thinking about the storytelling point of view, is that once you're into franchise storytelling, once you've got you know, you know, you own once you own Star Wars, you're not just gonna go, oh well, we'll stop at that point, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's a couple of films.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, we're gonna make you more films because we have a fan, like fans who want to see them, and we're just gonna keep providing them.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: So to go back to the you know, the Ted Turnout, it's what what was the line again?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like hardcore Afghani heroine.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hardcore heroin, right?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's what they're gonna keep doing.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: So they're just oh, get ready for this next one.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a trailer for this one, here's a post-credit scene just to whet your appetite for another sequel, and the reboots, and you just like this, like it it never ends, and you can't like at some point you've got to say, I'm gonna get off this train, and I might need to leap out of the window because it's not gonna stop.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there is this sense in which the the lack of contentment that is built into these the the marketing of these stories is that is matched only by the lack of contentment in the amount of profits that Disney have made.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a great bit in in uh Proverbs 30, I think it is, um, you know, the things which uh are never satisfied, which never say enough.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, one is uh is the the the earth, one is the fire and the grave, right?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's never going to be satisfied, it will never be content.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the thing with so much of the of the franchise storytelling, is that they know that there's just more money to be made, there's more stuff that could be brought out.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the the thing that you know broke my heart, I suppose, as someone who absolutely loved a franchise was I love I love Toy Story, I love Toy Story One, loves Toy Story Two and Toy Story Three, and they wrapped it up, and then of course they have to go make another one.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because there's more to be discovered in this world, well, that's the argument, but no, because there's a new audience that needs to be exposed to these toys again, it needs to be exposed to the the merchandising opportunities again, and we need to just keep on feeding this, yeah, because it's gonna keep on generating more and more profits, and it it's it's devastating because as Christians, you know, we've learned the secret of contentment, and yet we've been placed into a culture and a pop culture and a and a society which which you know capitalism feeds on a lack of contentment, dissatisfaction.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: You need a new one, you need more, you need to try this.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Want, want, want, want, want.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so it breeds in us this desire for stuff and for experience, which will never be sated.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and so, as Christians, again, one of the ways we need to we need to engage with our our engagement with stories is to say, is this a story that can end, that has a beginning, middle, and end, and closes off and finishes and that can be left behind, or is this story being pushed not by creative ideas and integrity, but just by this more make more money, make more stuff.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's just and it yeah, it's never ending.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of running on, so I wonder whether maybe just to kind of summarize, and you can tell me whether this is wrong or when you want to add a bit more to it.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose then, I mean, two of the big things we've pulled out really is that when we've got something like Disney, but Disney are not the only thing, but they're just one of the bigger ones out there.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're thinking about what are the messages, what how is it shaping the way we think, particularly our children think, but also us as adults, because we see they don't just own, you know, Disney itself doesn't just own children's things, they've got lots of things as well.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so think about what the messages are, and I suppose we're not saying, you know, therefore Disney is bad, don't watch any Disney because it's quite Possible to sit down with your children and watch things when you might say, you know what, we don't really agree with that, yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: In there, yeah, but you can have a discussion about it and you can draw things out of it.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there are good things, and you know, I'm sure there'd be good things, and there we go.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's a positive as well.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so think about the messaging that comes through in these things, but then I suppose the other thing is just being aware of the what as we've just been talking about, the consumer nature of it, the fact that it breeds discontentment, this sort of fact of like, I must see that, you know.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've yeah, what do I do when I get home?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to switch on the TV and get into this thing or get on whatever platform because there's another episode, there's another film, and you know, and I think you know, maybe those are the two big things, thinking about the contentment issue, yeah, and thinking about the way these things shape us.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and neither of those means necessarily you must get rid of your Disney Plus subscription or anything like that.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I would want to say to people, the these things, these things are optional.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: You get you can choose whether you you do this, and if your your children would be so devastated, you know, or or you would be so devastated because you'd feel like you were missing out.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like listen to that that that concern, right, or that reaction, and ask yourself whether that is the reaction of a person who's content or the reaction of someone who just wants more, right?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, if if a drug addict says, Oh, I can stop anytime, I just like doing it, it's like, well, why don't you stop them for a bit?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or just don't want to, and you can if you can't stop yourself engaging with this stuff, and it feels too catastrophic a decision to cancel Disney Plus or something, then maybe you should cancel Disney Plus.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if if if the if it feels so overwhelming, it's like this thing is optional, like you don't need to engage with this, and you don't need to give your money to this this company, like you have no need to do it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: And asking yourself the question about whether this is the right thing for me to do, and asking yourself the question about whether this, you know, as I say, the popcorn parenting podcast is all about engaging with these stories and thinking, are these a way for us to talk about the gospel with our children in a deeper, richer way because stories are so powerful and world building's so fascinating and and all of that sort of stuff as well.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as well, just to recognise on that that different Christians will probably come down to different places.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like some people will say, Yeah, it's time for that to get rid of this or not watch that.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Other Christians will say, We're okay with this, but we're not okay with that thing, you know, and that's and that doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's helpful to keep in mind as well.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there we go.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the end of the main conversation.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you enjoyed it.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joined by one of its perpetrators.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good description, perpetrators.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's been 18 hours since you had that conversation.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any final musings?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's the final musings.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: When we were doing things like the movie tag stuff before, and I guess what Nate does with popcorn parenting, I think there's a lot of value in dissecting things, even stuff that you might think is perhaps not nice, not godly stuff.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: You might say the messages in this film or this TV show, this song are not particularly godly, um, or there is you know sin on display or whatever.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, I mean I think even I mean everybody needs to go by their own conscience on those things.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think sometimes you can as I as I gave the Gotham example last night, there are ways you can engage with even uh distortions of the gospel um or distortions of you know the good life that God wants for us, um, and still use that for gospel opportunities, particularly when shaping our children.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm all for it, and I'd like to see more of that.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um it would be good to see Christians, yeah.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: So more Christians engaging with popular culture in that kind of way, as often the way Christians engage with popular culture is to create websites where they tell you how terrible here's the you know, here's a danger rating for this film for your children, you know, it contains this many uses of blasphemy, this many uses of this word, you know, and it just becomes a rather sort of uh it becomes a bit of a just moral gatekeeping.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we actually miss the the signs of God's grace shining through even um films that aren't made by Christians, uh ways in which they cannot help but point to Jesus and uh to write them off entirely is to miss those those gems, isn't it?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I listened to a a podcast called Popcorn Theology.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's Popcorn Parenting by Nate Morgan Lockford.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Which came first?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which came first?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Who stole it?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question, actually.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: But popcorn theology, they they talk about similar things, breaking down films, and they always talk about things in films that you can receive, things you can reject, and things you can redeem, which I've found quite helpful, and I think is what you use in your movie tag discussions that you've had on the speakeasy.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really helpful way of looking at it, expecting that you can find things that aren't going to be aligned to the gospel, things that will be, and then things that are maybe maybe twisted slightly, but actually you can you can still see how originally they would have pointed to to Jesus.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's helpful, Paul.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for um dissecting with Nate Disney's kind of journey and role in the world today, because it is a I think of it as almost as an empire, like the Roman Empire.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in terms of its wealth, probably comparable.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, wasn't built in a day, no.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: All streaming platforms lead to Disney.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: What have they ever done for us?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the aqueduct.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, thanks, Paul.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good week.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, you too.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: So and I don't know if that was semi to you and semi to the listener as well.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, whoever you are, wherever you are.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: We know we have listeners scattered across the world.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: God bless.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Goodbye.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.