Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KARMELO ANTHONY SOBS: GUILTY IN STAB-DEATH OF AUSTIN METCALF, 17 @ HS TRACK MEET

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KARMELO ANTHONY SOBS: GUILTY IN STAB-DEATH OF AUSTIN METCALF, 17 @ HS TRACK MEET · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Great grade star, athlete, beloved twin brother. How does he
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: end up stabbed dead at a high school track meet?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: The suspect and the victim had never even met. There
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: are about two dozen witnesses. This is a high school
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: track meet, for Pete's sake. Is it true that a
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: stand your ground defense is a brewing premeditation? The attempt
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to kill can be formed in the blink of an eye,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: the twinkling of a moment. The family devastated. I cannot
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: even imagine a murder over what.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Austin metcalf is. A seventeen year old straight a student
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and football star at Frisco Memorial High School. But what
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: is supposed to start out as an ordinary track beat
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: ends in tragedy for the prodigious athlete.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Joining US tonight, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt Dave,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: what's the.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: The trial is over, the jury has spoken, and the
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: sentence is in. It's an amazing time in the Carmelo
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Anthony case at this point. Joining US today Randy Kessler
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: to talk about what took place after the jury verdict
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: that determined Carmelo Anthony guilty and in a shocking way
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: to go. The jury only deliberated for three hours.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: This is an.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Amazing thing when you think about the magnitude of this case.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: One of the things that was brought up, in particular
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: by Austin's dad, Austin Metcalf's dad said, this case is
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: not about race. It never has been about race. It's
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: always been about teenagers in high school, and it was
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: made into a race issue. Outside of that, all of
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: the media covering this case from around the country, and
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: it's amazing now that as we go forward with this,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: you break it down and it really does look like
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: two high school students, athletes that got into an argument
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: over what was the place for one team not for
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: the other. It was a track meet, there was rain,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: and Carmelo Anthony went into Austin Metcalf's team area. If
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: you can remember back to high school, things were very
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: important like that too. Students in high school. As you
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: look at it as an adult, you're going, come on,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: you're really going to argue about this? Well, yeah, in
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: high school you do argue about that. And that's what
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: this entire case was about. In terms of what started
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: the disagreement, what became the argument that ended in the
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: death of Austin metcalf. The jury decides guilty after just
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: three hours. Randy Kessler, attorney out of Atlanta, a longtime
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: part of Nancy Grace's show over the years. Randy, give
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: me your ideas and thoughts about the jury verdict. Let's
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: start with just the verdict of Carmelo Anthony.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: Thousands of thoughts going through our mind, right, and you
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: hit on a few times the fact that it was
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: only three hours. You know, sometimes they could take three
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: hours to pick a four person. It could take three
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: hours to figure out where the jurors want to sit
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: while they're deliberating. To come up with a verdict in
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: three hours on a murder case, now, this isn't a shoplifting.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: This is something that's very serious. You want to make
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: sure that our system that people think about it take
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: it seriously, which you know, every time you talk to
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: a jury out to the case, it's amazing how seriously
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: jurors take this, even though no one wants to be
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: on a jury. Once you're on it and you're sworn
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: in and you see how serious the results are going
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: to be in the consequences for the community and for
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: the defendant, people take it seriously. Three hours defense really
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: didn't have much of a shot. When it goes three hours,
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: you know that there's not a lot you could have done.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: This was going to be a guilty, just a question
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: was it going to be one hour, two hours, three
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: hours or five or six. As a defense lory, the
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: more they deliberate, the more holes are being poked, the
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: more questions are being asked, the more you are hopeful
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: and optimistic. And if you can get them to deliberate
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: overnight and go home and sleep on it and think
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: do I want to put somebody away for something I'm
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: not sure they intended to do, that's better. When it
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: comes back to three hours, your heart sinks. As a
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: defense lawyer.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: When the jury gets their instructions from the judge and
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: they go back to the room, to the deliberation room,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: that the first thing they do is determine who's going
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: to be the four person, right, who's going to be
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: in charge of the jury.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, once they've.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Decided that, you mentioned sometimes that can take an extended
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: period of time. I've never been in that situation, so
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: I only know what I've been told. But once that
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: jury four person is picked, do most juries immediately go
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: ahead and hey, let's get a vote out there and
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: find out where we are.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of times you want to get a
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: read on the jury. But again, there's no playbook for this.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: Nobody unless you've been a four person before, and then
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: you're only basing it on your one or two or
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: three experiences. You know, you haven't read a book on
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: how to be a four person. You know, that's definitely
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: what we hear that people say, let's let's read the room.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: And what's interesting to me is, you know, and I
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: teach a class on jury trials at Emory Law School
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: and we get to watch the jury deliberate. The student's
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: final exam is a trial, and then you watch the
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: jury deliberate. And it's fascinating because after the trial and
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: you ask the jury, okay, so what do you think?
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: It's like twelve people saw different trials. A lot of
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: times it's like you go to a movie with a
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: friend and you come out and you say, well, then
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: you hate that guy, and you say, no, I like
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: that guy. You know, they all pick up on different things.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: So sometimes just hurting the cats and getting them to
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: figure out where they're together and where they're apart can
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: take time. So it's really amazing. They seem to be
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: on the same page or get on the same page
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: pretty darn quickly.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: One thing that I've seen and when I hear of
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: a three hour you know, jury deliberation, my first thought
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: is they all sat through the same thing as you mentioned,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: and you know you're going to be using your brain
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: along the way, regardless of what instructions you're given about anything.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: All of us have a tendency to judge things as
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: we go through and you know, determining am I hearing
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: the truth or am I hearing a version of the truth?
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: What am I hearing from this particular person? And once
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: they're packed there, it seems to me like you would
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: have a pretty strong idea of what you think happened
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: at that point. So yeah, jury comes, go ahead.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you would think that all twelve jurors would come
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: to the same conclusion because I all heard the same thing.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: People hear things differently. They see and hear emphasis on
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: things differently, not only the evidence, but even the instructions
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: from the judge they might hear differently. You know those
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: jokes about the people that see the sign out by
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: the beach that says no swimming aloud and someone else
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: sees it as no swimming aloud. You know, how you
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: hear things, how you see things comes from your history.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: That's why jury's election is so important. Do people follow
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: the rules as somebody who's been through a situation like this,
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: somebody who's gonna empathize or sympathize with the defendant or
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: the victim, or the judge or the lawyers. You know
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: that vader picking the jury should take a lot longer
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: than it typically does. So it's not surprising to me
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: as a trial lawyer that when you get the juries
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: into the room to deliberate, they don't always say, yep,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: we all heard it the same way. I mean, we're
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: not robots. That's why we have a jury system. If
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: it was robotic, if it was AI, if it was
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: artificial intelligence, there'd be calculations checked the box guilty period.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Now, in this particular case, was there any one thing
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: in the trial that would have had the most impact
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: later on with jurors and again only deliberating three hours,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: they probably all had heard everything and made decisions along
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: the way to point them in that direction, and then
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: getting together and agreeing. Was there any one thing at
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: trial that actually proved the point of the prosecution.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: You know, I think it's just a question of that situation.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: If they saw themselves in that situation, how would they act?
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: And nobody wants to say, oh, I would have stabbed somebody,
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: and nobody would think, oh, I would expect to be stabbed.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's it's just a set of facts. In
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: every lawyer I've seen comment on this, and every show
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: I've seen, in every report on it, everyone seems to
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: think it was predetermined that this was a hard, hard
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: heart gume because you take your body of life and
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: you come to the situation. Who could have thought of
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: a different way that could have been handled? Everybody right this,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: You don't walk into someone's tent. You don't start a fight.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: You don't, even if it was provoked, even if it
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: was self defense, stabbing someone in the heart because they
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: were in your you know, they wouldn't let you in
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: their tent. It just you know, it was a hard one,
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: and uh, there wasn't. I don't think there's one factor.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: I don't think there is. The whole case was sort
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: of an A plus B equal C. You know, he
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: brought a knife to you know. The joke is he
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: brought enof to a gunfight. He brought a knife to
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: attract me. He brought knife to practice, so there was
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: some premeditation of some plan that he might have to
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: use it, and then he pulled it out and stabbed somebody.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: He you know, the only way to get around that
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: would be to testify, and of course that's always a risk,
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: and he didn't testify in his own defense. But when
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: you say they did self defense and I was defending myself,
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: I think Jerry's got to see you and hear you,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: and taste you, and fail you and believe you that
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: you really were fearful for your life and that you'd
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: had no other choice. It's hard to have a third
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: party argue, oh, who was defending himself. That's why I
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: stamped them. That sounds like after the fact rationale.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: And it's exactly how it played out in court that
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: it didn't work the idea that it was self defense.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I made a point a minute ago that outside of
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: the area where this took place, in Texas, the race
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: game has been played since day one, and yet I
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: just I remember Austin's dad in particular, pointing out it's
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: never been about race. It is about high school athletes
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: in an area. And if you can just remember back
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: to high school and how important things were. You know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: things in high school have a heightened importance in our
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: lives just because we don't have that history to go
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: with to balance things out. And you know that this
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: is an important part of life in high school. This
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: is my area. You're not allowed in it. And yes,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: you brought a knife to a track meet. You got
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: to explain that, and it wasn't explained. Now the jury
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: came back with thirty five years thirty five years in prison,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: and in the state of Texas, the prisoner has to
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: spend at least half that time before they are eligible
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: for parole.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Is that correct, right?
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: And it may not be half. It depends on what
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: happens going forward. Is he a model prisoner? Is your
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: role model? Does he do Bible study and help his
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: fellow inmates or does he get in trouble? And then
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: the pro board, and this is you know, people, we
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: don't even know who's going to be on the pro
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: board fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years from now look at it
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: and they decide at the time, not how bad was
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: the crime so much, but what is he likely to
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: do if we let him out of jail. Is he
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: a model hearson? Is he going to get back in
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: to society and we're going to give them a chance.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: And maybe that's why the jury only gave thirty five
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: years to give him that shot at redemption, that shot
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: at getting back in. He's a young man and hopefully
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: there's good in all of this, and hopefully there's some
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: good in him that can come out of this and
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: he ends up getting back into society. Is with the
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: jury I think hoped for because if they thought there's
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: actually no redeeming qualities he would they would have thrown
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: the proverbial book out of life for ninety nine years.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Which is one of that There was an option they
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: could have gone that far, but opted for the thirty
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: five years. The prosecution wanted more, and many people felt
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: like this case deserved a longer sentence. Of course, the
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: defense and many others felt like it deserved less. I
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: guess that's again one of those things that you can't
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: determine what's going to happen in the future or what
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: was going through the guy's mind when the in this
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: case where the convicted doesn't take the stand and doesn't
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: say for himself, I really did the wrong thing. I'm
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: really sorry. I should have never done this XYZ. Without
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: having that to go on, does that impact the judge
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: and the judge's ability to pass sentence.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: Yes, And of course the jury is the one who
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: sentenced them in this case.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: And you know, we're all a composite of our history
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: and our combined experience.
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: You know, who are we to judge?
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: And how do we know?
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: And again, from the victim's point of view, there's no
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: sentence that's harsh enough. Right from the victim's family point
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: of view, there's no sense that's harsh enough. Why does
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: this guy get to go on living when their son
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: didn't get to go on living, when their brother doesn't
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: get to go on living. On the other hand, if
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: you're the state and you line up all the defendants
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: that you've prosecuted, you have mass murders, you have people
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: that have shot babies, You have people that have done
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: stuff that absolutely deserve a harsher sense. So is it
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: on that spectrum or do you look at a case
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: by case It's a case by case situation. It depends
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: on who was on the jury. How do they feel
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: about these senses. How do they feel about incarceration? How
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: do they feel about punishment? Do they identify with the
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: victims because they have somebody who is a victim of violence?
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Do they identify with the defendant because they have somebody
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: who was accused of being a criminal. I mean, it's
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: just a combination of twelve people's shared experiences and the
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: result is, you know, it's like making sauce that you
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: put it all on the hoppurn, it spits out thirty
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: five years.
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: It was probably some sort of compromise. I'm sure there were.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: People on the jury they wanted it to be excuse me,
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: want to be one hundred years. I'm sure there's someone
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: on the jury that thought thirty five years was too much.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: This is the natural result of twelve people coming to
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: a conclusion, and they did their conclusion, that they got
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: out of the room and they did their job. This
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: is one of those unique cases where the lawyers probably
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: had to prepare as much, if not more, for the
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: sentencing phase as for the trial phase, because they knew
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: there's a strong likelihood. You know, when you're a lawyer,
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: whether you have a winner or a loser of a case,
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: and you don't always win the winners, you don't always
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: lose the losers. But generally speaking, if you know there's
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: a strong likelihood that you're going to lose the guilt
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: innocence phase, you got to practice and prep for the
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: sensing phase. And in Texas it's pretty quick they turn
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: out to do the sensing right away. You don't have
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: months like you do in some states to prepare and
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: gather your witnesses. So they've had to prepare for the
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: sensing and the guilt or innocence phase at the same time.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Hindsight's twenty twenty Hindsight says they should have fifteen more
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: witnesses testify as to what a likable person this was,
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: and it had to be something that he's regretful and
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: that he will turn it around and give him some time.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: I'm sure everybody's second guessing it now on the defense side,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: but that's my only comment is that what a heavy
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: burden for the defense and their team to get ready
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: for a guilt innocence and to simultaneously be thinking, well,
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: how do I defend him if he's found guilty, Because
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: you want to start off hoping he's not gonna be
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: found guilty, he won't have to get there.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: But our job is to prepare for the worst.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: The worst was a guilty plea, I mean a guilty verdict,
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: and then you got to move into your next job,
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: which is a whole nother trial pretty much, which might
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: even be more important than the guilty innocence, which is
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: how much of a penalty is he going to pay.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: Tough position for the wars, tough position for the families.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: But of course the victims are the ones we have
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: to think about, and hopefully they're feeling like they got justice.
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: blood in, and he passed. My son watched his brother
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: die in his arms.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: During a track meet between Memorial High School and Centennial
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: High School in Frisco, Texas, a light rain begins to
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: fall and athletes take cover under tents with their respective
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: teams at Kukendall Stadium. Memorial High School athlete Austin Metcalf
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: finds Centennial High School athlete Carmelo Anthony under the Memorial
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: High School tent and tells him he needs to move
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: from under his team's tent. When Anthony refuses, words are
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: exchanged and Anthony tells Metcalf, touch me and see what happens.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: He first heard from the victim's father that from our
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: friends at Foxford joining us an all star panel to
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: make sense of a senseless and brutal stabbing. I cannot
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: get the image out of my mind of this star
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: athlete bleeding out dead as his twin brother tried to
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: stop the bleeding, holding him in his arms. You know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I've been to plenty of high school track events my
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: son has been involved in from the get go, and
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine a fatal stabbing over a seat
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: in a tent straight out to special guests joining us.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Katie Barber, Senior digital content producer at my San Antonio
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: dot Com. Katie, thank you for being with us. What
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: do we believe happened that led up to the horrible
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: stabbing death of this young star athlete literally scrubbed in sunshine?
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And why did the suspect have a knife at a
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: track meete?
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: It's really not clear why he had a knife at
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: the track meet on April second, but unfortunately he did.
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: One witness told police that they were sitting with Metcalf
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: under their school tent when someone they didn't know now
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: identified as Carmelo Anthony came over to them, and he
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: is allegedly when I grabbed the bag when he was
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: confronted and reached inside and said touch me and see
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: what happens.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, what wait? Hold on, Katie Barber joining me from
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: my San Antonio dot com. Who said what? Who sat
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: down where? Who said what? And who said touch me
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and see what happens? Give me proper names.
• 17:18
  Speaker 7: One witness told an officer that they were sitting with
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: Metcalf under the school's tent when Carmelo Anthony came over
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: to them. While they were in the tent, The witness said,
• 17:27
  Speaker 7: Metcalf told Anthony to leave the tent, and when he
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: did that, Anthony grabbed his bag, opened it, reached inside
• 17:34
  Speaker 7: and said touch me and see what happens. And then
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: police said in the doctor that no one believed that
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: they he had a weapon at the time.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, if we have the facts correct, the suspect stabbed
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: an unarmed teen boy. But yet I'm hearing that the
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: suspect has walked free. I am also learning that it
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: was urged in court that the suspect has no criminal history.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: He's a juvenile. I'm listen to this.
• 18:12
  Speaker 8: Anthony's father was questioned about an incident involving his son
• 18:16
  Speaker 8: that happened at Carmelo's High School in February. The Daily
• 18:19
  Speaker 8: Mail refers to the incident as an altercation assault, but
• 18:23
  Speaker 8: as the situation was handled internally by the Frisco Independent
• 18:26
  Speaker 8: School District, it is unclear if Anthony was the aggressor
• 18:29
  Speaker 8: or merely a witness to the incident, or even what
• 18:32
  Speaker 8: type of incident occurred.
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: blood in and he passed. My son watched his brother
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: die in his arms.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: That from our friends at Fox for Dallas Fort Worth News. Okay,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: let me understand this straight out to trial lawyer Lisa Herrick,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: partner at Vargie Somerset and former juvenile prosecute Lisa, thank
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you for being with us when I can't get a
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: straight answer. That makes me think that there is subterfuge.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: So if the suspect who is the admitted stabber of
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: an unarmed team at a high school track meet, when
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the stabber's camp is asked about an incident involving an
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: assault at the school and I can't get a straight answer,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it tells me that somebody is covering, because if the
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: suspect was just a witness to an assault, or a
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: good samaritan or the champion that's you know, stopped the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: whole thing, we would have heard that, wouldn't we. I mean,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: they're trying to get bond. They did get bond, So
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: what is this prior incident? And does it concern you
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that when the suspect's father is questioned about this, as
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: he's urging his son's a good character, we don't get
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: a straight answer. Well, what I.
• 20:05
  Speaker 9: Would want to know is we're any criminal charges brought
• 20:08
  Speaker 9: because of it? And or was Carmelo suspended or expelled?
• 20:14
  Speaker 9: Or did he have any sort of school disciplinary action
• 20:16
  Speaker 9: as a result of it, Because if neither of those
• 20:19
  Speaker 9: things are true, it does make me believe that he
• 20:21
  Speaker 9: probably wasn't the aggressor. Criminal charges don't necessarily have to
• 20:26
  Speaker 9: be brought due to a fight at school, but schools
• 20:28
  Speaker 9: are very likely to have some sort of disciplinary action
• 20:32
  Speaker 9: because of a fight at school, especially if it was
• 20:34
  Speaker 9: one sided, especially for a person who was an aggressor.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it disturbs me that someone is asking for
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: a reduced bond to walk free after stabbing an unarmed
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: teen dead and then not coming clean about what happened
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: at a prior school incident. I mean the father Anthony's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: father was questioned about the incident involving his son at
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Anthony's high school. So why am I not getting a
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: straight answer? Dave Mack? That changes everything. If there was
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a prior assault by Carmelo Anthony on another think it through,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Dave mac For Pete's sake, this would be a similar
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: transaction if it's true, because Anthony would be attacking another
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: high schooler. I'd like to find out if that victim
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: was armed or unarmed. I'd like to find out if
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Anthony was armed or unarmed, the extent of the attack.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Did it rise to an aggravated assault with fists or feet?
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Do we know anything or was that
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: completely glossed over in the Bond hearing. We don't have
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: an answer, right.
• 21:44
  Speaker 10: It was completely glossed over in the hearing, Nancy. The
• 21:48
  Speaker 10: question was what happened and the answer was nothing. It
• 21:52
  Speaker 10: was like a tap dance. We cannot find out any
• 21:54
  Speaker 10: information because it was handled by the school district, by
• 21:57
  Speaker 10: their own investigation, and that's the only thing we know happened.
• 22:01
  Speaker 10: At school. They cover I didn't want to say covered up.
• 22:05
  Speaker 10: They said they dealt with it, and that was the
• 22:07
  Speaker 10: end of it. Dad didn't volunteer any information whatsoever about
• 22:11
  Speaker 10: his son. I wanna be honest as a dad. If
• 22:14
  Speaker 10: my son was accused of doing something, and in this
• 22:16
  Speaker 10: particular case, he hadn't, I would have been screaming, absolutely,
• 22:20
  Speaker 10: here's what happened, and I would tell you the whole
• 22:21
  Speaker 10: story right then. I wouldn't just walk away like I
• 22:24
  Speaker 10: needed an umbrella to get out of the sun.
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: Was able to see my son on the gurney with
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: a huge hole and blood all over him, and they
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: were pumping him. He wasn't breathing, his eyes rolled back
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: in his head.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Centennial High School's Carmelo Anthony reaches inside his bag, grabs
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: a knife, and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest underneath
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: the Memorial's high school pop up tent, and then he
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: runs away as Metcalf's twin brother Hunter comes to his
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: brother's aid. Witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby middle
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: school resource officer, who chases the suspect down.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: At first, you were hearing Austin's father space looking to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: our friends at Fox for the family devastated. I cannot
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: even imagine what it would be like for the father
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: to see this, much less the twin brother holding Austin
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in his arms trying to stop the blood. I wouldn't
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: have understood it if I didn't have twins of my own.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: They're practically joined at the hip and minor boy girl
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: much less boy boy or girl girl that play all
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: their sports together, that do everything together. Having your twin
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: bleed out dead in your arms, let me go straight
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: out to a special guest joining us. Also like Lisa
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Herrick joining us from this jurisdiction. Doctor Kimdall Crowns with
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: US Chief Medical Examiner Terran County. That's Fort Worth never
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: lack a business in that Morgue stayed lecturer at the
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Texas Christian University and
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: launching a brand new podcast make him in the Morgue
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: April fourteen, Doctor Kimdall Crowns, I know you've studied the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: case very carefully. Was there a way his twin brother
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: could have saved Austin.
• 24:23
  Speaker 11: No, there wouldn't have been because the stab wound was
• 24:26
  Speaker 11: in the heart. Unless he could be gotten to an
• 24:29
  Speaker 11: emergency room like immediately, and they may have been able
• 24:33
  Speaker 11: to save him, but more likely than not, he was
• 24:36
  Speaker 11: going to die anyway. That type of injury to the heart,
• 24:39
  Speaker 11: there's just really no coming back unless you're basically in
• 24:42
  Speaker 11: ther when you get stabbed. Explain why, because it's your heart,
• 24:47
  Speaker 11: it's you know, it's all your blood's coming through there,
• 24:50
  Speaker 11: it's all being pumped out. And then when you have
• 24:52
  Speaker 11: a now hole in your heart, it's bleeding into your
• 24:55
  Speaker 11: chest cavity, and you have to close that hole up
• 24:58
  Speaker 11: in the heart, So you'd have to crack the chest open,
• 25:01
  Speaker 11: get in there and try and fix the heart. And
• 25:03
  Speaker 11: there's just so much blood loss because of the size
• 25:06
  Speaker 11: of the hole. It's it's near impossible to save that individual,
• 25:10
  Speaker 11: and just putting pressure on it at the scene, all
• 25:13
  Speaker 11: that's going to create is they're just going to bleed
• 25:15
  Speaker 11: into their chest cavity.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about what you're saying, doctor Kendall Crowns.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Because Katie Barber was Austin stabbed in the heart.
• 25:28
  Speaker 7: The arrest document states he was stabbed in the chest.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: So interesting, I wonder how close to the heart he
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: was stabbed. So okay, doctor Kendle Crowns will digest that
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: not stabbed in the heart, stab in the chest. Does
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: that make a difference in your analysis.
• 25:49
  Speaker 11: So it depends on where exactly in the chest you
• 25:52
  Speaker 11: go up. But if you're kind of in the midline
• 25:54
  Speaker 11: or to the left, that's going to be the heart.
• 25:57
  Speaker 11: You go up a little higher, it's the aorta, which
• 25:59
  Speaker 11: is the main vessel coming off the heart. They're going
• 26:02
  Speaker 11: to bleed out again in just a matter of minutes
• 26:04
  Speaker 11: from that as well, there's no saving them at the scene.
• 26:08
  Speaker 11: You go to a little to the side one way
• 26:10
  Speaker 11: or another, you've punctured at the chest. I've punctured the
• 26:13
  Speaker 11: lung and that'll cause a collapse lung that causes a
• 26:16
  Speaker 11: lot of hemorrhage. That one. You may be able to
• 26:18
  Speaker 11: save the person if you can get him to the
• 26:20
  Speaker 11: hospital fast enough. But from all the information I've seen,
• 26:24
  Speaker 11: it doesn't sound like it got stabbed in the chest
• 26:27
  Speaker 11: in the area of a lung. It's more probably centralized
• 26:30
  Speaker 11: hitting them in the heart.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: So, doctor Kendall Crowns, if I were explaining this to
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: a jury, okay, I would take everything that you just
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: said and paraphrase it in openings and closings, and I
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: would repeat it in practically every one of my questions
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: that I asked you on the stand and of course
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a shortened way. But you're saying, there's no way, twin
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: brother Hunter could have saved Austin, because even if Hunter
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: could have pushed down where Austin was bleeding, and so
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: it would look like to the naked eye that he
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: had stopped the bleeding, the bleeding would still be happening
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: underneath the skin, and the blood would then be pumping
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: straight into the lungs, so he would die on his
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: own bloot in his lungs. I mean, there was no
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: way he could have saved him. Are you sure? Do
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you feel confident in that?
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 27:30
  Speaker 11: I feel very confident in that. If he puts his
• 27:33
  Speaker 11: hand on his chest and he continues bleeding into his
• 27:36
  Speaker 11: chest cavity, it's going to fill up his chest cavity
• 27:39
  Speaker 11: and it's going to make it hard for him to bleed, breathe,
• 27:42
  Speaker 11: and he'll basically die from lack of oxygen. That actually
• 27:46
  Speaker 11: takes longer. From the descriptions I've read from the scene,
• 27:50
  Speaker 11: he kind of dies in a matter of minutes. To me,
• 27:52
  Speaker 11: that sounds like a major vessel was hit or the
• 27:54
  Speaker 11: heart and he was going to die no matter what
• 27:57
  Speaker 11: was done.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Seventeen year old Austin Metcalvige being held by his twin
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: brother Hunter, who is trying to stop the bleeding after
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: seventeen year old Carmelo Anthony allegedly stabs Austin in the chest,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: piercing his heart. First responders arrive and take over treatment
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: of Austin. As officers round up eyewitnesses to the event
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: to find out what happened. Hunter Metcalf is so distraught
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: he can barely speak to police, but officers locate about
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: two dozen student athletes and four coaches who witness the
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: stabbing and begin taking statements.
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: A school resource officer is first on the scene and
• 28:31
  Speaker 8: confronts Carmelo Anthony, telling the suspect to put his hands
• 28:34
  Speaker 8: up in the air. Anthony tells the officer I was
• 28:36
  Speaker 8: protecting myself, claiming Metcalf quote put his hands on him. Anthony.
• 28:42
  Speaker 8: Here's the officer saying he has the alleged stabbing suspect
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: in custody, and Anthony replies, I'm not alleged I did it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Wow, I'm not alleged I did it. Joining me now
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: in addition to our other guest, Barry Hutchinson, renowned law
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: enforcement that of twenty six years detective now chief operator
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: of Barry In Associates Investigative Services. Very thank you for
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: being with us. Did you hear what the suspect said?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: And I quote, I was protecting myself that Austin quote
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: put his hands on me, and that would be suspect
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Carmelo Anthony. Austin put his hands on Carmelo Anthony. According
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to Anthony Anthony, hears the school resource officer say he
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: has the alleged stabbing suspect and responds, I'm not alleged
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I did it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's a pretty damning utterance from an evidentiary value.
• 29:42
  Speaker 12: And you know he pretty much admitted to the crime
• 29:47
  Speaker 12: by making that statement.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: O Kate, Barry, Barry, I know that. I just read
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you what he said. I'm asking you what the state
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: is going to do to prove that and what the
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: defense is going to do to try to get away
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: from it.
• 30:04
  Speaker 12: Well, the witnesses are going to contradict what he says anyway,
• 30:09
  Speaker 12: and you know there's twelve of those folks apparently or more,
• 30:13
  Speaker 12: and they're going to make a statement that contradicts what
• 30:15
  Speaker 12: he says. It's pretty much going to outweigh what he says.
• 30:18
  Speaker 12: The state's going to move forward with prosecution.
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: From that point.
• 30:22
  Speaker 12: His defense is going to be that it's you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 12: what he said originally, that it was self defense, that
• 30:27
  Speaker 12: he was in fear of his life, which it's going
• 30:29
  Speaker 12: to be awful hard to substantiate that, as you addressed earlier,
• 30:32
  Speaker 12: without the threat of equal violence to substantiate him.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: Music deadly forced.
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: Why an't your bond exports?
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: That's one of my friends at Fox for Dallas Fort
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Worth News to Katie Barber joining me my san Antonio
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: dot com. What happened at the bond hearing?
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: His attorney was asked about the knife and he refused
• 30:59
  Speaker 7: to answer a question about it. He said, he just said,
• 31:03
  Speaker 7: for unknown reasons, Carmelo brought the knife to the school,
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: but uh and the district attorney also acknowledged that it
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: was for unknown reasons. So they're not prepared to go
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: into that conversation. But it seems to be the most
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: pressing comment or most pressing detail about the case right now.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, who asked who about why the knife was brought
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to the track?
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: Mate Howard's attorney was asked by the media after the
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: hearing about this, and he just said it would be
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: irresponsible for me or them to say, uh there why
• 31:43
  Speaker 7: he brought the knife, and they're asking the public to.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: With Okay, so hold on, Katie Barbara. Let me understand.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I asked you what happened to the bond hearing, and
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you told me something that happened outside the bond hearing.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: But I want to follow up on that. You're telling
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: me that Carmelo, Anthony's lawyer was asked why Anthony brought
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a knife to the track meat? Do I have it
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: right so far? Katie Barber.
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he was asked why he brought the knife?
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Right? Got it? Yes? Got it? I got it the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: first time. So hold on right there. Lisa Herrick veteran
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: trial lawyer who has handled cases in juve juvenile justice.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So the lawyer wouldn't answer why Anthony brought a knife
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to a track meet. Here's my question. I'm sure you're
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: familiar with implicit intent to commit a crime, are you not? Yes?
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: For instance, if I say, okay, Lisa Herrick, I've got
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: a gun, it's loaded, and now I'm going to kill you, bam,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that's explicit it's stated and the law recognizes that, but
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: there is also implicit intent. For instance, if I reach
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: into my gym bag and take out a knife and
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: shove it into your heart, I don't have to say, Lisa,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: now I'm going to stab you dead. It's implicitly proven
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: by my actions. I don't have to announce them. This
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: is the problem Carmelo Anthony's lawyers are gonna have implicit
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: and explicit intent are equal in the eyes of Lady Justice.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Under the law, they carry equal weight. Him bringing a
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: knife and in using it to stab someone dead is
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: implicit intent to commit a crime. That's why the lawyer
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: wouldn't answer that question, Lisa Herrick.
• 33:48
  Speaker 9: I think that's possibly why he wouldn't answer. I also
• 33:51
  Speaker 9: would like to know what kind of knife it was.
• 33:53
  Speaker 9: If we're talking about a largely hunting knife, there's probably
• 33:56
  Speaker 9: no reason why he should be carrying that. Maybe there
• 33:59
  Speaker 9: is in his at tire and he's just don't feel
• 34:00
  Speaker 9: like disclosing that at this point. But if it's a
• 34:02
  Speaker 9: small pocket knife or like a Swiss army knife, maybe
• 34:05
  Speaker 9: he carries that for other reasons. Maybe he just happened
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: to have it in his backpack. And used it for
• 34:10
  Speaker 9: self defense. We don't know what kind of knife it
• 34:12
  Speaker 9: was at this point, or at least I don't know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 9: and I think that that makes a difference. I think
• 34:16
  Speaker 9: that matters, you know what.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I think you're right, Lisa Herick. I think you're absolutely right.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: If it's a pen knife or a folding knife, yeah,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys may carry those around. You're absolutely right.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: So the type of knife is going to be very important.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: It's my understanding. It's a fixed blade. I don't know that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: In other words, not a knife that you fold out.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: It's a knife with the blade attached and it's not foldable.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: But we'll find out. That's a really good point, you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: isn't it interesting at Leasta Herrick, how one small fact
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: can change the terrain the topography of a case, Because
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: if he shows up like a knife, for instance, out
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: of the Brian Coburger case, a fixed blade army knife, right,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: a military style knife with a sheath, that's much more
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: menacing and much more of an implicit threat to commit
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a crime as opposed to a foldable pen knife. You're
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: absolutely right. I want to get back to the bond hearing.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I want to find out why the known, the admitted
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: stabber of an unarmed boy at a track meet for
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Pete Sega High School track meet has walked free. Listen
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to this.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Just before his bond hearing, Carmelo Anthony's family retains Mike Howard,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: a Dallas criminal defense attorney. The change of attorney is
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: announced by the Next Generation Action Network, a nonprofit that
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: is supporting Carmelo Anthony. Howard represents Anthony in court as
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: the defense seeks to have bond for Anthony lowered from
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: one million dollars to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: Prosecutors question Andrew Anthony, the father of the accused, why
• 35:53
  Speaker 8: Carmelo Anthony should have his bond reduced when the family
• 35:56
  Speaker 8: has already raised over four hundred thousand dollars from a
• 35:59
  Speaker 8: crowdfund site.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Lisa Herrick joining me, veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Lisa explain again in a nutshell, what is now emerging
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: as the defense? And you know what, I haven't even
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: gotten to these sick conspiracy theories that are multiplying promulgating online.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Get to that in a moment. But I pray that
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Austin's parents have not seen what is being said online.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: It's total bs technical legal term. But Lisa in a
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: nutshell in regular people talk, do not throw a Latin
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: phrase at me, Lisa Herrick and I know that you
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: can stand your ground? How and the hay is that
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: going to apply here? We normally think of it as,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: let's just say somebody tries to break in your house,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: you don't have to run. You can shoot them right
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: then and there. If you're so disposed standing your ground,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: You're in a place you're supposed to be. You have
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: authority to be there, and no one can make you leave. Now,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: explain how that's gonna work in a high school track tent.
• 37:08
  Speaker 9: Right, stand your ground. We commonly use the phrase no
• 37:12
  Speaker 9: duty to retreat, so it some places will, like some
• 37:17
  Speaker 9: jurisdictions will require that you attempt to remove yourself from
• 37:22
  Speaker 9: the danger. That's not the case in Texas. In Texas,
• 37:24
  Speaker 9: if you're presented with a threat, with a danger, you
• 37:27
  Speaker 9: have the right to defend yourself and stand your ground
• 37:29
  Speaker 9: means you don't have to try to leave the danger first.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm reading the supplemental arrest report and the narrative
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: is written by officer Eduardo Cortes. Cortes states suspect was
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: on the track at the north end. There was a
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: chain link that separated officer Cortes from the suspect. Cortes
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: gives a suspect instructions to keep his hands in the air,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and at this time suspect verbally said, out loud, and
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: this is considered a voluntary statement, quote, I was protecting myself.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Cortees goes on to note he had not questioned the
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: suspect about the incident, but suspect blurted that out. Then stated,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: while walking him off the track, suspects states, quote, he
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: put his hands on me. Katie Barber joining me, senior
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: digital content producer my san Antonio dot Com, Katie, My
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: understanding from having read the police reports and the witness
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: statements is that the suspect goes under the other size tent,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: right the other school's tent. At that point, Austin says,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: this isn't your tent. Get out of here. At that point,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: at that point, what does the suspect do.
• 39:07
  Speaker 7: Police says that when he's told to move out of
• 39:10
  Speaker 7: the tent, that he grabbed his bag, opened it and
• 39:13
  Speaker 7: reached inside and this is when he tells Austin touch
• 39:18
  Speaker 7: me and see what happens, according to police, and.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: So naturally Austin touched him.
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. Police say that he proceeded to touch Carmelo,
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: and then Carmelo then postures and tells Anthony and tells
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: Austin to punch him and see what happens. A short
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: time later.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Police don't say, say, to your understanding, Katie Barber, were
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: any punches Throne, did Austin ever hit the suspect?
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: It hit, It doesn't say. It says he grabbed Anthony
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: after that threat to tell him to move, but it doesn't.
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: But police do not say. Witnesses did not tell police
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: that he was punched. But when he was grabbed to
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: buy Austin is when he pulled out the knife and
• 40:03
  Speaker 7: stabbed him once in the chest, is what police say.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Our witness reported a police escort Carmelo Anthony to a
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: squad car. Anthony says he put his hands on me.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I told him not to. Anthony also asks officers if
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: the victim was going to be okay and if what
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: happened could be considered self defense. Officers take evidence photos
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: showing blood on Anthony's hands, but don't find the knife
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: on him.
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: He say, I'm gonna come over and see you this week, Soka,
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: I look forward to it. Hey, I love your dad.
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: That's a lovely Tucson. Those were the last words heard.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: From me, the father and the twin speaking to our
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: friends at Dallas Morning News. What about the blood evidence
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: in this case? With conflicting witness reports, with the suspect
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: claiming self defense and stand your ground although no punches
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: were seen thrown, that blood evidence becomes critical. Remember, it
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: was raining the track meet is outside.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: Listen as law enforcement and paramedics arrive on scene. The
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: rain is falling harder. One officer moves the memorial tent
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: over the victim of medics train to save his life
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: and finding the bloody knife in the stands, quickly takes
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: photos of it before the rain could wash away all
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: the blood. A blue tarp is used to cover the
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: knife in an effort to preserve the evidence, and because
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: it was so windy, the officer uses a nearby backpack
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: to weigh down the tarp. He doesn't realize at the
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: time the backpack belongs to suspect Carmelo Anthony photo.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: No juris don't want just a photo. They want DNA,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: do yoxari BO and nucleic acid straight out to renowned
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: medical examiner doctor Kendall Crown's joining us from this jurisdiction
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: of Texas Dodger Kendall Crown. The murder what we believe
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to be the murder weapon, a knife covered in blood
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: had been thrown or obscured, let me just say euphemistically,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and it was pouring rain. What's the likelihood that we
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: can get DNA off that knife because the state needs
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the suspects DNA and the victims DNA off that knife.
• 42:28
  Speaker 11: Well, it should probably still be able to get DNA
• 42:31
  Speaker 11: from it, unless it was scrubbed clean with a cleanser
• 42:35
  Speaker 11: or a soap of something of that nature. There's probably
• 42:37
  Speaker 11: still enough DNA on the handle and on the knife
• 42:40
  Speaker 11: itself to be able to get a good DNA sample. Also,
• 42:45
  Speaker 11: you have to figure because of the contact between the
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: two boys, there's probably a way of getting DNA from
• 42:51
  Speaker 11: the victim as well.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Kat Barber, where exactly was the knife discovered?
• 42:56
  Speaker 7: It was discovered in the bleachers on the north side
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: of the stage stadium, which is where.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Well, hell the hey did he get in the blazers?
• 43:04
  Speaker 7: Katie he ran off after the stabbing. It didn't quite
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: say a total direction, but he did run off, and
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: it's presumed that he threw the knife when he ran off,
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: because he didn't have the weapon on him when he
• 43:16
  Speaker 7: was detained.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Right a minute, right there, Katie Barbermi san Antonio dot
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Com to doctor John Delatory. If someone attacked me, and
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I thought back, I wouldn't take off running and then
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: hide the weapon, thought I would.
• 43:36
  Speaker 13: Yeah, you wouldn't. But here's the thing is that if
• 43:39
  Speaker 13: Anthony saw a bunch of other people, dozens of other
• 43:42
  Speaker 13: people that were also around and in that tent, he
• 43:45
  Speaker 13: might have felt overwhelmed. He might have felt scared. He
• 43:48
  Speaker 13: could have done all of these things just as a
• 43:51
  Speaker 13: matter of panic. So he runs off, knowing that he
• 43:55
  Speaker 13: shouldn't have stabbed this person, but he did it anyway.
• 43:58
  Speaker 13: He throws a knife away, he takes off, thinking that
• 44:00
  Speaker 13: he's going to get very far. There's all kinds of
• 44:03
  Speaker 13: things that could be happening, because it does not appear
• 44:05
  Speaker 13: as though he intended to go to that track meet
• 44:10
  Speaker 13: with the specific purpose to kill Austin Metcalf. It does
• 44:13
  Speaker 13: seem like things were going on underneath that tent that
• 44:17
  Speaker 13: neither one of these two boys were prepared for and
• 44:21
  Speaker 13: both are now suffering the consequences, with Austin having lost
• 44:24
  Speaker 13: his life for some kind of nonsense.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Lisa Herrik, you see where this is going. The state
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: is going to argue to a jury he ran off
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: and disposed of the weapon because he knew what he
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: did was wrong, and then immediately began forming a defense
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: in his mind and even asked law enforcement, Hey, could
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: that be self defense? You think that self defense?
• 44:50
  Speaker 9: There are a couple of things that cut in favor
• 44:52
  Speaker 9: of the self defense argument, and those are that he
• 44:56
  Speaker 9: did run away if he was scared, and he so
• 45:01
  Speaker 9: he's he stobs Uh.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Scared? Isn't he if he was touch me and find out,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: isn't he the one to say, go oh, punch me,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: just see what happens. That doesn't sound scared to me.
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: I don't disagree with you, but getting into his mind
• 45:19
  Speaker 9: for a moment, and the argument that the defense is
• 45:21
  Speaker 9: going to make right.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: They have to come up with something in his mind.
• 45:25
  Speaker 9: So if he'll say I was scared, I stabbed him.
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: I felt like the danger was subdued enough that I
• 45:33
  Speaker 9: could now safely escape, then then I can see how
• 45:37
  Speaker 9: running away would cut in favor of self defense. I
• 45:40
  Speaker 9: can see what you're saying. How running away?
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: You just said? Have you ever heard the phrase word salad?
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Because I just heard one. Okay, wait a minute, you're
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: what did you say about the threat was subdued? You
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: mean he stabbed Austin in the chest? Is that what
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: you're talking about? So if the threat is subdued, why
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: run then?
• 46:05
  Speaker 9: Because there were plenty of other people around who were
• 46:10
  Speaker 9: potentially new dangers? Right, people who saw him say.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: No, No, I don't know what you're saying. You're making
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that up like a good defense attorney. What other people
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: presented a danger? Nobody? What is are you serious? Well?
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I mean so he stabs Austin dead, and then he
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: is in danger of what.
• 46:32
  Speaker 9: Retribution? People who want to hurt him now that Carmelo
• 46:35
  Speaker 9: hurt their friend.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, she's spinning this out, Lisa Harrick. That's why
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: she wins cases. She's spinning like rumpel Stiltskin. She's trying
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: to take Hay and spin it into gold.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Centennial High School's Carmelo Anthony reaches inside his bag, grabs
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: a knife, and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest underneath
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the memorial's high school pop up tent, and then he
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: runs away as Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter comes to his
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: brother's aide. Witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby middle
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: school resource officer, who chases the suspect down.
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: First off ros for have a second. I didn't know
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: what to do, and then us I saw him on
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: the fall. Go over there a.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Good stuff, you were just saying, Austin's twin brother and
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: his mother with our friend at the Will Kine show
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: over on Fox, joining me in All Star panel making
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: sense of the fact that a stabber killed an unarmed
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: high school track star and has walked free. I've heard
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: from the bond hearing about how the stabber's family needs
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: to quote survive, how they need more money in addition
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: to the nearly half a million dollars they have raised online.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: But Dave Mac, I've heard very little about what the
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: victim's family has endured on top of their son being murdered,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: with his twin brother trying to stop the flow of blood.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: In addition to that, we now know there have been
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: attacks on the victim's family and the victim Austin Metcalf's
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: mother's home was swatted.
• 48:20
  Speaker 10: What happened, Nancy, It's almost like a media blackout when
• 48:25
  Speaker 10: it comes to the victim's family. At eight o'clock at night,
• 48:30
  Speaker 10: SWAT they get a nine to one to one phone
• 48:32
  Speaker 10: call giving the address of Austin Metcalf's mother and saying
• 48:39
  Speaker 10: somebody has been shot in the mouth. And this person
• 48:44
  Speaker 10: stays on the phone for an extended period of time
• 48:48
  Speaker 10: until SWAT can get out to the residence. They surround it,
• 48:52
  Speaker 10: they build up the whole blue shield around the home.
• 48:55
  Speaker 10: They're trying to get entice with Austin's mother, Megan, and
• 48:59
  Speaker 10: they can't get on the phone. Well, her phone isn't
• 49:02
  Speaker 10: working right now. SWATT didn't know if she had been killed.
• 49:06
  Speaker 10: They didn't know if there were people inside the house.
• 49:08
  Speaker 10: They sent a drone inside this house that has been swatted, Nancy,
• 49:13
  Speaker 10: to go through every little thing, and of course they
• 49:16
  Speaker 10: didn't find anybody in there, and they were able to
• 49:18
  Speaker 10: clear the home. This is how this family is mourning,
• 49:22
  Speaker 10: going through police coming and thinking they're being held against
• 49:27
  Speaker 10: their will and being trashed.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand, Dave mac you're talking about Austin Metcalf,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: the dead boy. His family, his mother's home was swatted.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Someone calls police, an anonymous tipster and says a victim
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: has been shot in the mouth inside the home.
• 49:47
  Speaker 10: You have that one hundred percent correct.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm projecting, but I recall when my fiance was murdered.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I couldn't even think straight. I could barely form words.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I felt like just howling like an animal. And this
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: is a mother, a mother whose son, a twin, has
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: been stabbed dead, who bled out in the rain at
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: a truck meet, and someone swats her home. I don't understand.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Douglas Griffin joining me, senior police officer, President of the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Houston Police Officers Union. That's saying a lot. Twenty nine
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: years on the Gang Task Force, you've seen it all,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Douglas Griffin. How is it that the victims family has
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: somehow become the bad guys in this scenario?
• 50:39
  Speaker 14: I really don't understand it. There's so many questions to
• 50:42
  Speaker 14: this case that you sit there and look at it
• 50:44
  Speaker 14: and go how did this happen? You have an individual
• 50:48
  Speaker 14: that goes to the wrong tent, not even his school,
• 50:53
  Speaker 14: with the To me, it's almost like he intended to
• 50:55
  Speaker 14: start something somewhere in there. Then on top of that,
• 50:58
  Speaker 14: where are all the coaches and the teachers and the
• 51:01
  Speaker 14: staff these track bent events. There's people everywhere, and for
• 51:08
  Speaker 14: this to end up the way it did is just
• 51:10
  Speaker 14: a tragedy and it should never have happened. And I'm
• 51:14
  Speaker 14: still unfounded by the fact that he was able to
• 51:16
  Speaker 14: get a knife into a school facility like that, and
• 51:19
  Speaker 14: why would you have it in the first place. So
• 51:21
  Speaker 14: there's a lot of questions here that we have to answer.
• 51:24
  Speaker 14: We have to look at the way the school is
• 51:26
  Speaker 14: set up, the way the hints were set up, and
• 51:31
  Speaker 14: why it was so easy for him to pull a
• 51:35
  Speaker 14: knife from a bag and stab a student like that.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you brought up a really good point, and
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: I haven't thought this aspect through, And that is why
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Douglas Griffin, I would spend so much time with my investigator,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Ernest and go over and over all the facts. I
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: guess I knew it, but it's staring me straight in
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: the face. He Carmelo Anthony, the stabber, the confessed stabber
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: if he hadn't confessed to it. And by the way,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I believe it's been caught on video, which I'm getting
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: to he's not alleged. He confessed to it, all right.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: He walks into the tent during a track mate carrying
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: his bag with a knife in it. He it's very clear.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've all been to high school football games
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: and track events. It was lightly raining, so they have
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: a tint. It's very clear whose tent is who's There's
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: the colors of the school on the tent. There's all
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: the teammates from that school under the tent. They're all
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: wearing their uniforms from that school. It may even have
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: the school's name on the tent. So Carmelo Anthony, the
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: stabber walks into the tent with a concealed knife. Why,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: just as you said, why would you go into the
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: other side's tent with a knife if you were not
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: looking for trouble to Lisa Herrick joining US veteran juvenile
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: attorney partner at Vargy Somerset. This is important former juvenile prosecutor, Lisa,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
• 53:32
  Speaker 9: Thank you, Nancy.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: That's enough time to form premeditation right there now. I
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: know that you defend juveniles after having been a juvenile prosecutor,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: but the reality is under the black and white letter
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: of the law. Okay, premeditation, the intent to kill, or
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: the intent to commit any act can be formed in
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: the blink of an eye, the twinkling of a moment,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: the time it takes you to raise the gun and
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: pull trigger. The law does not require a long drawn
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: out period for a premeditation or planning mensraa malicea forethought.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: For instance, say a long drawn out period. I'm poisoning
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: someone every single day, just a tiny bit of arsenic
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: and then they die. It can be formed just like that.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Why do I care? Because premeditation or malicea forethought mincereya
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: is a key factor, the critical ingredient in a murder
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: one prosecution, isn't it.
• 54:34
  Speaker 9: Absolutely? Intent is one of the main elements of a
• 54:38
  Speaker 9: murder or an assault, an aggravated assault with a deadly
• 54:41
  Speaker 9: weapon that turns into a murder. Because in Texas we
• 54:44
  Speaker 9: have a number of different ways that murder can be committed,
• 54:49
  Speaker 9: or the language for murder can be alleged, one of
• 54:52
  Speaker 9: which can be that you intend for a person to die,
• 54:55
  Speaker 9: but another can be that your actions, your intentional or
• 54:59
  Speaker 9: no actions, are.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Such that.
• 55:04
  Speaker 9: You would know that a person would die. So stabbing
• 55:06
  Speaker 9: someone in the heart. You would certainly know that a
• 55:08
  Speaker 9: person would die if you stab someone in the heart,
• 55:10
  Speaker 9: and that knowledge or that intent, like.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: You said, Okay, hold on, Lisa, Harriet joining me veteran
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: try a lawyer, Lisa, You're absolutely correct. And I've got
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: a great example, because when I speak to jury's very often,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: or really anybody, and I can't tell I can't state
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that this was my idea. I got it from someone
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: in the New Testament. I like to give examples, Okay. Stories.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: For instance, if I take a gun and point it
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: right over at my executive producer right here, Jackie, and
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger and then say, oh, I just meant
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: to scare her. I didn't mean to kill her. The
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: You don't have to say I will now kill you, bam.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: So when you take the time to go to your
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: duffel bag, your athletic bag, unzip it, get out a knife,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: and then stab someone, and then we have the previous
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: threat to touch me and see what's gonna happen. All
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: of that adds together to make a premeditated murder case.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Now you have not only prosecuted juvenile cases felonies, which
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: is a whole other animal prosecuting in juvenile court GV
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: court versus big court. What's your defense in this case, Lisa?
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: What would your defense possibly be? Is it true that
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: a stand your ground defense is brewing? How can that percolate?
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: That didn't happen?
• 56:52
  Speaker 9: A standard ground defense is hard in this fact situation
• 56:56
  Speaker 9: because stand your ground law press us that the victim
• 57:01
  Speaker 9: is somewhere that they are not supposed to be right.
• 57:04
  Speaker 9: You're defending your space when stand your ground law applies.
• 57:08
  Speaker 9: And certainly Austin was in a place where he was
• 57:11
  Speaker 9: allowed to be. No, I think Carmelo probably was allowed
• 57:14
  Speaker 9: to be where he was as well. It's a public
• 57:15
  Speaker 9: place right. But in order to claim stand your ground,
• 57:19
  Speaker 9: and in order to use that as your defense, you
• 57:23
  Speaker 9: have to be defending your space. And so I know
• 57:26
  Speaker 9: Carmelo is saying that Austin put hands on him. But
• 57:31
  Speaker 9: deadly force is self defense theory that is supposed to
• 57:36
  Speaker 9: be used. Deadly force meets deadly force. The self defense
• 57:40
  Speaker 9: is not matica.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Lisa, again, you're absolutely correct regarding the letter of the law.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I like to use this example you can't slap me
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: and then I shoot you down with an uzzi. Okay,
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: as for instance, I can't battle back, I can it
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: gets your fly swatter with a machine gun. So you
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: said it deadly force equals deadly force. But here isn't
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: it true that Austin Metcalf was unarmed? So to introduce
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: a deadly weapon that's deadly force versus no force.
• 58:20
  Speaker 9: Correct, And even more so, self defense without a deadly weapon.
• 58:25
  Speaker 9: Regular self defense is not a justifiable defense to use
• 58:29
  Speaker 9: against words alone. The law says that words are not
• 58:31
  Speaker 9: sufficient provocation to use self defense.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: To Katy Barber joining me, content producer at my San
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Antonio dot com. Was the track event still ongoing? I
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: take it that it was since so many guys were
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: still under the tent.
• 58:47
  Speaker 7: At the time of the stabbing. It was a rain delay,
• 58:50
  Speaker 7: so everybody had taken a beat and they were waiting
• 58:54
  Speaker 7: for the rain delay to be over when the fight
• 58:59
  Speaker 7: first began.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: So simply that's a yes, the event was still ongoing.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: What does that mean to me? That means to me
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: that there are going to be a lot of witnesses
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: and everybody waiting for the rain to lay to end.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: We're all huddled under that tint. There was no way
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: that Anthony did not know he was going in the
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: wrong tint, no way with a knife. I just wanted
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: to clarify that it's not like the track meet was
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: over and everybody was gone and the only one sitting
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: under there was Austin Metcalf and that somehow he Carmelo.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: Anthony didn't know where he was going. No, he went
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: into the other side's tent with a knife. Okay, Dave
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: mac you mentioned that Austin's mother's home was swatted with
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: someone saying someone have been shot in the mouth in
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: the home, so police swarm the place. What about threats
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: on Austin's father.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 10: He has been getting threats since this first began, by
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 10: text messages, by phone calls. Nancy, This grieving father had
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 10: a person show up at his house banging on the
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 10: door and he had to call police. He is under
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 10: attack online on everywhere you can imagine. And again, the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 10: scariest thing I can think of is somebody you don't
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 10: know showing up at your address knowing who you are,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 10: and that happened to him. I don't even know how
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 10: you go to sleep at night knowing that people can
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 10: find you, and they're gonna they're verbally violent towards you,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 10: and you're the victim.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: I just don't understand how this has gotten so beast awkwards.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Neither family is the bad guy. Carmelo Anthony's family not
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: the bad guy. The victim's family certainly not the bad guy.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: So how has the victim's family turned into the scapegoat here?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Why is the mom's house getting swatted? Why is the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: dad getting threats? People showing up bamming on his door.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: They have put their son in the ground, they have
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: been to his funeral. I can't even imagine anything worse
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: than that. I want you to listen to the dad,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Jeff Metcalf with Fox.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 6: Four, and his brother was holding him, trying to hold
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: the blood in, and he passed. My son watched his
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: brother die in his arms.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: The father, Jeff Metcalp, describing the moment his son Austin
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: was stabbed dead at a high school track meet. That
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: from our friends at Fox for Dallas Fort Worth needs
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: if you know or think you know anything about the
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: stabbing death of this young man, Austin Metcalf. Be it
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: for the state or the defense, it doesn't matter. This
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: is a procedure to seek the truth, regardless of what
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: that truth is. If you know or think you know,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: if you know a video, or if you have video
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: or photos, please call the tip line nine seven two
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: two nine two six thousand, repeat nine seven two two
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: nine two six thousand. We wait as justice unfolds, and
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: now we remember an American hero. Deputy Mark Anderson, Olmsted
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: County Sheriff, Minnesota, passed away in the line of de
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: eleven years with law enforcement. Leaves behind grieving partner Deborah
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: and daughter Samantha. American hero Deputy Mark Anderson, Thank you
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, I'll see
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: you tomorrow night at six and nine o'clock sharp Eastern
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: and until then, good night friend,