Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / “FRIENDS” MATTHEW PERRY OD DEATH IN HOT TUB: CRIMINAL CHARGES LOOM?

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“FRIENDS” MATTHEW PERRY OD DEATH IN HOT TUB: CRIMINAL CHARGES LOOM? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Friends star Matthew Perry od's
0:10
Speaker 1: dead and a hot tub? Are criminal charges looming in
0:16
Speaker 1: his death? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:20
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
0:22
Speaker 2: Bombshell. Investigators and law enforcement are looking to charge multiple
0:27
Speaker 2: suspects in the tragic ketamine death of Friends actor Matthew Perry.
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Speaker 1: I recall when prosecuting ketamine K was equated with drugs
0:40
Speaker 1: that veterinarians used, But now it's very very common on
0:46
Speaker 1: the street and even prescribed. But why are criminal charges
0:51
Speaker 1: looming in an OD and overdose case? How is that
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Speaker 1: working now that we know the cause of death has
1:00
Speaker 1: been ruled accidental? Listen?
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Speaker 3: The LAPD launching a criminal investigation into the death of
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Speaker 3: Matthew Perry after the medical examiner's report is released and
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Speaker 3: it's nearing its conclusion. A source close to the investigation
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Speaker 3: tells people the police believe multiple people should be charged.
1:17
Speaker 3: The LAPD is working with the Drug Enforcement Administration, the DEA,
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Speaker 3: and the US Postal Inspectors attempting to find out where
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Speaker 3: the ketamine that killed Matthew Perry came from.
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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
1:28
Speaker 1: what we're learning right now are criminal charges looming in
1:31
Speaker 1: the overdose death a friends start Matthew Perry. Now we
1:35
Speaker 1: know that there is a criminal investigation going on of
1:40
Speaker 1: who straight out to Lauren Colin, investigative journalist's host of
1:45
Speaker 1: The Outlier podcast. You can find her at Laurencolin dot com.
1:51
Speaker 1: Lauren criminal charges. Now, I recall distinctly when I was prosecuting,
1:57
Speaker 1: there's a big buzz in the courthouse. Archie Bunkers in
2:00
Speaker 1: the courthouse. All in the Family was a huge TV show.
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Speaker 1: My brother, my older brother, loved it and he was
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Speaker 1: the star. He went on to be the star of
2:09
Speaker 1: the Heat of the Night and just a great, great actor.
2:12
Speaker 1: His son died of an overdose and he was in
2:16
Speaker 1: the Fulton County courthouse pursuing a claim against the doper
2:21
Speaker 1: and at that time it was unheard of. Right now
2:25
Speaker 1: we are hearing that charges, criminal charges are looming in
2:30
Speaker 1: connection with Matthew Perry's death. What do you know, Nancy.
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Speaker 4: What we know is that Matthew Perry was getting treatment
2:37
Speaker 4: for depression through ketamine. But this type of treatment, I mean,
2:43
Speaker 4: it leaves your body within two to three hours. They're
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Speaker 4: traces of ketamine. He was also weaning himself off of
2:49
Speaker 4: this treatment, so he hadn't been to this doctor or
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Speaker 4: this place to get these treatments for over a week
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Speaker 4: and a half.
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Speaker 1: So when the autopsy report.
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Speaker 4: Came out and it was stated that he had so
3:01
Speaker 4: much ketamine in his system and I will let a
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Speaker 4: doctor talk about how much they were like, wait a second,
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Speaker 4: where would one procure all of this? So it actually
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Speaker 4: took his stepfather, journalist from Dateline, Keith Morrison, to say, hey,
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Speaker 4: we probably should make this a criminal investigation here.
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Speaker 1: Another saying is that there can be a cocktail of
3:21
Speaker 1: drugs and papal system. Why it was see why was
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Speaker 1: he Matthew Perry so o day what happened? Well, our friend,
3:31
Speaker 1: doctor William Roney, an expert in epioids, wise.
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Speaker 5: In what you have is a cocktail of disaster because
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Speaker 5: you probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating,
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Speaker 5: nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine, as
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Speaker 5: it's said in the autopsy, there's ketamine contents in the stomach,
3:57
Speaker 5: that would be ketamine pills. That's a rogue doctor, somebody
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Speaker 5: outside of good practice guidelines giving pills. They have no
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Speaker 5: business giving in addition to ketamine treatment.
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Speaker 1: And to doctor Moroni, what do you mean by rogue clinics.
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Speaker 5: These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics. The only doctor
4:19
Speaker 5: that's probably legitimate here is the one giving a bupin orphine.
4:22
Speaker 5: That's the hardest word to say. But in order to
4:25
Speaker 5: do that you have to have training.
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Speaker 1: The rest of.
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Speaker 5: These people doing ketamine rogue. They're outside the law, they're
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Speaker 5: outside good practice. We saw this with Anna Nicole Smith,
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Speaker 5: Michael Jackson, Prince, all these rogue doctors treating all these
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Speaker 5: celebrities and you don't know who's around them.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Another interesting thing as I was researching in the
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Speaker 1: NY and early early this morning regarding Matthew Perry, it's
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Speaker 1: very disturbing to meet doctor Bethany Marshall is joining us,
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Speaker 1: a renownced psychoanalyst in the LA area and a book
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Speaker 1: deal break or went to work in a relationship and
5:01
Speaker 1: went to walk away and you can find her at
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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com doctor Bethany. When I was
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Speaker 1: researching Matthew Perry early this morning, you know what comes up.
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Speaker 1: First thing. Matthew Perry had more than one point five
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Speaker 1: million dollars in his personal bank account. Matthew Perry is
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Speaker 1: broke at the time of death. Matthew Perry has nearly
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Speaker 1: two million dollars. Blah blah blah. Does anybody care other
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Speaker 1: than this panel about what happened to Matthew Perry After
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Speaker 1: his death, people came out of the woodwork saying, Oh,
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Speaker 1: he's a horrible person. Oh he's a wonderful person. And
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Speaker 1: now it's all about his money, the ketamene, it's about
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Speaker 1: his death. How did he get the drugs? Why was
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Speaker 1: he odeed? I mean, this guy was a TV superstar,
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Speaker 1: a movie star. Did nobody care about him? Did nobody
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Speaker 1: care about what happened to him? Did his just stand
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Speaker 1: by and watch him into oblivion over and over and over.
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Speaker 1: It's like vultures, harpies picking at his bones at this juncture.
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Speaker 1: The fact is this could have been prevented and he
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Speaker 1: could have lived, Doctor Bethany. But now the headline he
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Speaker 1: had nearly two million dollars in his bank account at
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Speaker 1: the time of his death.
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Speaker 6: Nancy, this is the worst form of what I call othering,
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Speaker 6: just turning him into the dangerous other, or the poor other,
6:26
Speaker 6: or the enviable other. Somebody with whom you have no relationship.
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Speaker 6: All these people who watched Friends all of those years,
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Speaker 6: they felt attached to him, They felt a.
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Speaker 7: Sense of love, a sense of admiration.
6:37
Speaker 6: But now they've kicked him off the pedestal and they
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Speaker 6: have him writhing on the ground, and they're vilifying the victim.
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Speaker 6: Because these celebrities who have a lot of money notoriously
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Speaker 6: get the worst care. I see this in my practice
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Speaker 6: all the time, because what happens is if they're suffering
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Speaker 6: from addiction and one doctor limits them or says I'm sorry,
6:56
Speaker 6: I'm not going to prescribe this for you because you
6:57
Speaker 6: have a propensity towards addiction, and they can just go
7:01
Speaker 6: find another one, another doctor to prescribe because they have
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Speaker 6: all these hangers on and they are vulnerable. People with
7:08
Speaker 6: substance abuse problems.
7:09
Speaker 7: Are extraordinarily vulnerable.
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Speaker 6: And so the fact that doctor Moroney is talking about
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Speaker 6: all these different people prescribing, they were not working together
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Speaker 6: as a team and they were not setting limits, which
7:20
Speaker 6: is what you have to do with people who have
7:23
Speaker 6: these kinds of mental health struggles.
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Speaker 1: Who who are we talking about? Who is under criminal investigation? Listen?
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Speaker 1: I can tell you this much. When the LAPD, the DEA,
7:35
Speaker 1: and the US Postal Service are up your Tailpie, You're
7:38
Speaker 1: in trouble. I am telling you those are three very
7:42
Speaker 1: very powerful law enforcement agencies. And don't underestimates the ups
7:50
Speaker 1: the US Postal Service. We always hear about mobsters committing murderers,
7:55
Speaker 1: drug trafficking, human trafficking. You know who can bring down
8:00
Speaker 1: a mobster in a New York minute? The US Postal Service.
8:03
Speaker 1: Why do we need them not just to get a mail?
8:06
Speaker 1: Because they help prove wire fraud. They help prove fraud
8:14
Speaker 1: through the mail, which is a federal offense. Look, I
8:18
Speaker 1: can try a guy for crack cocaine or for heroin
8:23
Speaker 1: selling opioids, but what about the guys that send it
8:27
Speaker 1: an e FedEx? What about the guys that mail it,
8:30
Speaker 1: that send money through the mail or other means them?
8:36
Speaker 1: So LAPD, the DEA, and the US Postal Service are
8:42
Speaker 1: on this case. So you know something's about to go down.
8:46
Speaker 1: And doctor Bethany Marshall, let me just ask you a
8:48
Speaker 1: quick question. You refer to other ring. I've never heard
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Speaker 1: that before. Did you make that up?
8:53
Speaker 5: No?
8:53
Speaker 1: I mean it's.
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Speaker 6: Really in terms of racial injustice studies, that's a frequent
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Speaker 6: word that's used where you turn of another race into
9:01
Speaker 6: another a person for whom you have no empathy or understanding.
9:05
Speaker 6: You don't see them as their own person and their
9:06
Speaker 6: own right. But we do it within our own race too.
9:09
Speaker 6: You can other an older person or somebody who's disabled,
9:12
Speaker 6: or somebody who's young, and I think that means just
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Speaker 6: really not caring about them, just looking at superficial features.
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Speaker 6: But also envy is at the core of othering. When
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Speaker 6: you really are envious of another person's accomplishments, you just
9:25
Speaker 6: stomp on them and you just knock them off their pedestal.
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Speaker 6: And it's something we human being sadly are prone to doing.
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Speaker 1: And doctor Bethley, I could talk to you all day
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Speaker 1: long about what is wrong with people? Why do we
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Speaker 1: love somebody so much and then just want to destroy
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Speaker 1: them and talk badly about them after their death? The
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Speaker 1: way people are Matthew Perry. I don't know if what
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Speaker 1: they're saying is true or not about many of the
9:48
Speaker 1: allegations made against him after his death, but I think
9:51
Speaker 1: this is hardly the time to go for him. I mean,
9:55
Speaker 1: he's dead, he clearly had an accidental death.
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Speaker 6: All those online reports of people's wealth are true and true.
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Speaker 6: Often in my clinical practice, if I have a celebrity
10:06
Speaker 6: patient and they tell me something about their financials, I'll
10:10
Speaker 6: look it up online and there's just a wild variance
10:14
Speaker 6: between what they report and what's online. Usually online it
10:17
Speaker 6: is very, very inflated. Also, you know, in terms of
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Speaker 6: Matthew Perry, we want our celebrities to be successful enough
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Speaker 6: that we admire them and we identify with them, but
10:29
Speaker 6: not so successful that we envy them and feel that
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Speaker 6: we can never have what they have. And so I
10:35
Speaker 6: think his meteoric rise, the fact that he's so beloved,
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Speaker 6: so talented as an actor, and so likable and relatable,
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Speaker 6: makes people envious, and that's when they start to devalue
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Speaker 6: and put him down.
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Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this much. He may have
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Speaker 1: money and fame, but when you are addicted to dr ows,
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Speaker 1: your life as hell. I don't care who you are,
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Speaker 1: it's hell h E double L. You know, Doctor Ernest
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Speaker 1: Shioda is joining us, and I'm going to follow up
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Speaker 1: with you, Mike McCornick, and Wendy Patrick because I'm really interested.
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Speaker 1: I'm anxious to find out who is being criminally investigated,
11:11
Speaker 1: are charged criminal charges looming in Matthew Perry's case. I've
11:17
Speaker 1: heard a lot of rumors that I can't report because
11:19
Speaker 1: I can't confirm them about who is being targeted. I
11:23
Speaker 1: know some of the people that have been questioned, but
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Speaker 1: charges like this would have to be something like an
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Speaker 1: involuntary manslaughter, producing or manufacturing or distributing drugs. There are
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Speaker 1: so many different ways to go. But what I want
11:41
Speaker 1: to talk about right now doctor Ernesthiodo, who is a
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Speaker 1: renowned toxicologist, a physician, biomedical engineer, attorney and author, waite,
11:50
Speaker 1: did I get it all? Hold on? Let me make sure. Toxicologist,
11:54
Speaker 1: medical doctor, biomedical engineer, attorney, an author of Talk Torque,
12:01
Speaker 1: Medical and legal elements. Wow. When do you have time
12:06
Speaker 1: to breathe? Uh? Doctor Schioto, thank you for being with us.
12:09
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the side effects of ketymine K,
12:14
Speaker 1: which has long been used by veterinarians on animals. And
12:18
Speaker 1: I want to talk about what somebody said earlier rogue doctors.
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Speaker 1: Oh it was doctor William Maroney, renowned to psychologists who
12:27
Speaker 1: specializes in opioids. He's the author of America narcan a.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Shioto, side effects of ketymine would they make you
12:36
Speaker 1: angry because a lot of the people that crawled out
12:39
Speaker 1: of the woodwork after Matthew Perry's death said, oh, he
12:42
Speaker 1: was violent. Well he never struck me that way, but
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Speaker 1: we don't know how he was in person. What would
12:49
Speaker 1: be some of the side effects of ketamine.
12:52
Speaker 8: Well, ketymine is not an opiate. It's a fensecuidine.
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Speaker 1: Oh okay, stop right there, Okay, hold on, okay, wait, yes,
13:01
Speaker 1: let me just put it out there. You know more
13:03
Speaker 1: than me. I don't know what you just said. I'm
13:05
Speaker 1: going to have to write it phonetically. What did you say?
13:09
Speaker 8: It's a what it's a fen cyclaine.
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Speaker 1: It's not an opiate, A thin cyclodane.
13:16
Speaker 8: Okay, yes, so it's it doesn't Uh, it's not an opiate.
13:20
Speaker 8: So it's not going to act like fentanyl or morphine
13:23
Speaker 8: or heroine that causes respiratory depression and depth actually cause
13:28
Speaker 8: it stimulates your respiration and increases your heart rate in
13:32
Speaker 8: blood pressure. So so from a standpoint of something that's
13:37
Speaker 8: going to cause death, uh, that's not that's not the issue.
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Speaker 7: It can cause.
13:43
Speaker 8: It causes feelings of dissociation, out of body type of experiences,
13:50
Speaker 8: and that's that's part of why it's used recreationally, but
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Speaker 8: also why it's used the treatment of depression and anxiety.
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Speaker 8: But as far as its actually causing an overdose deaths, No, no,
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Speaker 8: I don't think that's the case.
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Speaker 1: This is what we know. His death included drowning the
14:08
Speaker 1: effects of b primorphine, a drug that treats opioid addiction.
14:14
Speaker 1: His use of ketamine. The amount of ketamine in his
14:17
Speaker 1: bloodstream was equivalent to that used in general anesthesia. According
14:24
Speaker 1: to the Times. That means when he was in that
14:27
Speaker 1: hot tub, he might as well have been hooked up
14:30
Speaker 1: to propofol or general anesthesia. I mean that is a
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Speaker 1: lot so to you. Mike McCormick, owner investig lead investigator
14:41
Speaker 1: mcm Investigations in LA. This is your neck of the
14:45
Speaker 1: woods and you can find him at m Mother c
14:50
Speaker 1: Curry M Mother Investigations. Mike McCormick, listen to this. A
14:55
Speaker 1: criminal investigation is being launched to figure out the source
14:59
Speaker 1: of the drugs.
15:02
Speaker 9: That's going to take a little more investigation. But there's
15:06
Speaker 9: other people involved also, and the Health and Safety Code
15:10
Speaker 9: eleven three point fifty and eleven three sixty five would
15:15
Speaker 9: be a couple that charges that they would probably end
15:19
Speaker 9: up filing against the individuals who distributed or provided the
15:25
Speaker 9: ketamine to Matthew.
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Speaker 3: According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months,
15:31
Speaker 3: but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an
15:33
Speaker 3: overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report,
15:38
Speaker 3: a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote,
15:41
Speaker 3: during my investigation, no alcohol, elicit drugs or drug paraphernalia
15:45
Speaker 3: were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty
15:48
Speaker 3: four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone,
15:51
Speaker 3: and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing
15:55
Speaker 3: him to be angry and mean for the last couple
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Speaker 3: of weeks.
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Speaker 2: A criminal investigation and to actor Matthew Perry's death is
16:03
Speaker 2: near conclusion. Dealers could face charges.
16:06
Speaker 1: Who's facing charges not just in Hollywood, in LA but everywhere.
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Speaker 1: Once people that are suppliers, even if they're friends of
16:17
Speaker 1: the victim, are going to be prosecuted. And once that
16:21
Speaker 1: begins happening, I believe that we will have less od
16:26
Speaker 1: desk such as what we're seeing with Matthew Perry, who
16:29
Speaker 1: who is being prosecuted.
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Speaker 3: This is what we know Listen, brook Mueller isn't home
16:35
Speaker 3: when police service search warrant at her sober living residence. However,
16:38
Speaker 3: sources indicate Mueller is completely cooperative with law enforcement, and
16:43
Speaker 3: when she arrives home, she's not handcuffed while talking to police.
16:46
Speaker 3: This is not the first time Mueller has spoken with
16:49
Speaker 3: investigators in the Matthew Perry case, but this time authority
16:52
Speaker 3: sees her iPhone and laptop.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's not good when law enforcement takes yourself phone
17:00
Speaker 1: and your laptop. But again, Brooke Mueller has not been charged.
17:05
Speaker 1: And yes, she was married to Charlie Sheen, and yes
17:09
Speaker 1: they have twins together. Yes, she has been in and
17:12
Speaker 1: out of rehab. She dated and I think the loose
17:16
Speaker 1: sense of the word Matthew Perry. What more do we know?
17:20
Speaker 3: Listen, Brooke Mueller has retained a lawyer for help in
17:22
Speaker 3: navigating the multiple meetings she's having with law enforcement, and
17:26
Speaker 3: she's remaining tight lipped about the situation. An insider tells
17:29
Speaker 3: in Touch it's tough to say or know exactly what
17:32
Speaker 3: her role is in Matthew Perry's death, but Mueller is
17:35
Speaker 3: adamant she has nothing to do with it.
17:38
Speaker 1: Again, Brooke Mueller a mother, a former wife in and
17:42
Speaker 1: out of rehab finding her demons, did date Matthew Perry,
17:46
Speaker 1: we are told, but has not been named as a
17:51
Speaker 1: defendant in this case. Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor, president,
17:56
Speaker 1: founder of Black Swan of Verdicts, an author of her
18:00
Speaker 1: third book, This One's New, Why Bad Looks Good, and
18:04
Speaker 1: you can find her at wendypatrickphd dot com. She's also
18:10
Speaker 1: again you're like gosh ioto, I don't know how you
18:12
Speaker 1: do this, but she's also host of Today with Doctor
18:15
Speaker 1: Wendy KCBQ San Diego. Wendy, that's a mouthful. Now, can
18:19
Speaker 1: we get off of your huge resume and onto Matthew Perry.
18:24
Speaker 1: What do you make of this? I mean I would
18:26
Speaker 1: be worried if I saw the dea picking through my
18:29
Speaker 1: trash through my kitchen window. I would like that.
18:31
Speaker 10: No, definitely not, and especially when you put it in
18:33
Speaker 10: combination with those other two powerhouse organizations. I mean, they
18:37
Speaker 10: obviously have enough evidence to be conducting an investigation, whether
18:40
Speaker 10: somebody mailed them the drugs, whether somebody gave him the
18:43
Speaker 10: drugs because they thought they were doing him a favor,
18:46
Speaker 10: as you mentioned earlier, they're not looking for a murder suspect,
18:49
Speaker 10: they're looking for an involuntary manslaughter suspect or who may
18:53
Speaker 10: have facilitated this drug overdose along the way. And I
18:57
Speaker 10: do have to say, Nancy, I too have been following
18:59
Speaker 10: what people are saying after the fact.
19:01
Speaker 7: And you know, he's.
19:02
Speaker 10: Also so relatable because so many of us know somebody
19:06
Speaker 10: who has struggled with addiction, a family member, a cowork
19:10
Speaker 10: or a friend. And that's one of the reasons that
19:12
Speaker 10: investigators would look at who saw him last, who spoke
19:16
Speaker 10: to him last, what deliveries came that day. But you're right,
19:20
Speaker 10: when you have those agencies involved, you already know that
19:23
Speaker 10: there's enough evidence to be able to at least follow trails,
19:26
Speaker 10: hopefully leading to some suspects and some.
19:28
Speaker 11: Justice crime stories.
19:36
Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, doctor Bethany Marshall, I'm going to jump
19:39
Speaker 1: off what Wendy Patrick just said. Doctor Bethany, You I
19:45
Speaker 1: don't believe have ever heard me and be an apologist
19:50
Speaker 1: for a supplier ever. I remember the first stay with
19:56
Speaker 1: me on this The first time I saw a DUI
19:59
Speaker 1: had been to a violator, which means you've had so
20:02
Speaker 1: many DUIs which are misdemeanors. You finally get a felony,
20:05
Speaker 1: you graduate to b court and the defendant came in.
20:09
Speaker 1: She was in shackles and prison blues. She was beautiful,
20:14
Speaker 1: soft spoken, college degree, had been a stockbroker at some
20:19
Speaker 1: one of the big stock brokerage firms, and she had
20:23
Speaker 1: become an alcoholic. She lost her husband, her three children,
20:28
Speaker 1: no more custody her. You have to have special you know,
20:32
Speaker 1: like a lawyer has to have a law degree and
20:36
Speaker 1: you have to be certified by the bar to practice.
20:38
Speaker 1: She lost all of her certification. No more stock brokerage ever,
20:43
Speaker 1: because you can't have a drunk broker because they may
20:46
Speaker 1: take your money. You don't know what they'll do. She
20:49
Speaker 1: lost everything because of addiction. And she was standing alone
20:54
Speaker 1: in that courtroom, all alone, no family, nobody taking a
20:59
Speaker 1: guilty place. And that was the first time. I mean,
21:02
Speaker 1: my parents like me, my mother anyway, My father was
21:06
Speaker 1: not afraid of a cocktail, teetotalers totally right. And I
21:11
Speaker 1: saw for the first time what addiction does to you.
21:14
Speaker 1: You think she wanted to go through life without her children,
21:18
Speaker 1: that you might as well take a dagger and stab
21:20
Speaker 1: me in the heart. Doctor Bethany to take me away
21:22
Speaker 1: from the twins lost everything. So I don't apologize for suppliers.
21:31
Speaker 1: But addicts give each other drugs, and I don't know
21:36
Speaker 1: whether it feels sorry for them or to throw them
21:39
Speaker 1: in jail.
21:40
Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, It's so difficult because addicts generally have
21:43
Speaker 6: a trail of devastation behind them, and usually they do
21:46
Speaker 6: alienate all of their loved ones and friends. And yet ironically,
21:50
Speaker 6: it's social support that's the most key factor in sobriety.
21:55
Speaker 6: What you said about supplying each other drugs is true.
21:58
Speaker 6: Some people you do not want to put and psychotherapy
22:01
Speaker 6: putic groups together. People with eating disorders, you don't want
22:03
Speaker 6: to put them in a group together.
22:05
Speaker 7: They'll just teach each other how to binge and purge.
22:07
Speaker 6: You don't want to put people who are anxious and
22:09
Speaker 6: a psychotherapy group together because they'll raise each other's anxiety.
22:13
Speaker 6: The same with people who are drug addicted. They do
22:16
Speaker 6: tend to supply each other drugs. And Nancy, I want
22:19
Speaker 6: to add that we're thinking of nefarious individuals supplying drugs
22:23
Speaker 6: to Matthew Perry. It could be his own legitimate doctor,
22:27
Speaker 6: the primary treater. Because when you're prescribing a psychedelic agent psychotherapeutically,
22:33
Speaker 6: for a patient, you have.
22:35
Speaker 7: To do a full assessment.
22:37
Speaker 6: To make sure that treatment is going to work.
22:39
Speaker 7: And if they're already addicted to that substance, you don't want.
22:42
Speaker 6: To prescribe that substance to help them get better. It's counterintuitive,
22:47
Speaker 6: it's just malpractice.
22:48
Speaker 1: Reminder to all, Brooke Mueller has not been charged in
22:53
Speaker 1: this case. For all I know, they had the same supplier.
22:57
Speaker 1: For all I know, they were talking on the phone
23:00
Speaker 1: about their addictions. For all I know, she was counseling him.
23:03
Speaker 1: I don't know why law enforcement has seized her phone
23:08
Speaker 1: and her laptop, but we're going to find out.
23:18
Speaker 3: Radio in one of the drowning across.
23:24
Speaker 2: Her friends, Actor Matthew Perry's ketamine overdose death under criminal investigation.
23:32
Speaker 2: Could Perry's celebrity friends be at fault?
23:35
Speaker 1: Our criminal charges looming in the od death friend star
23:40
Speaker 1: Matthew Perry who passed away in his hot tub. He
23:45
Speaker 1: had so much ketamine in his system it was equal
23:48
Speaker 1: to the amount you would have for general anesthesia. He
23:53
Speaker 1: was posting in texting about relaxing in his hot tub
23:57
Speaker 1: just before his death. Clearly this was an accident. Oh
24:02
Speaker 1: so warm water swirling around you makes you feel good.
24:05
Speaker 1: I'm matt Man having a great evening. Right he died?
24:10
Speaker 1: Why did he die? An ode of keteman? But I
24:13
Speaker 1: want to ask our doctor joining us, doctor Ernest Scioto,
24:16
Speaker 1: a renowned to psychologist, physician, biomedical engineer, and lawyer and author.
24:22
Speaker 1: I was reading his autopsy report, doctor, and I also said,
24:27
Speaker 1: I see number one cod acute effects of ketamine. But
24:31
Speaker 1: they also see this is a tough thing. Pancreatic fibrosis.
24:36
Speaker 1: What is that? Pancreatic fibrosis chronic?
24:39
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's from malcohol abuse. Basically, he has she has
24:44
Speaker 8: damaged his pancreas from having had probably because of alcohol
24:50
Speaker 8: prioritans gosh, Okay, that happens with other than abuse, but
24:58
Speaker 8: it's something that's common with alcohol.
25:00
Speaker 1: Okay. Pancreatic fibrosis chronic. And he also had nephro sclerosis
25:06
Speaker 1: of kidneys. What is nephro sclerosis of kidneys?
25:11
Speaker 8: Yeah, for sclerosis of kidneys is where you have damage
25:14
Speaker 8: to the filtering elements of the kidneys, of the elements
25:20
Speaker 8: of the kidneys that take the toxins day to day
25:25
Speaker 8: toxes that we all develop in our body and excrete
25:28
Speaker 8: them into the eurine, so there was there was some
25:31
Speaker 8: some kidney damage. What the cause of the kidney damage
25:34
Speaker 8: was hard to say.
25:35
Speaker 1: I see chronic hepatic congestion, liver mild aplo, aplanegally. Okay,
25:45
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's not right, but you know what it is?
25:47
Speaker 1: What is it?
25:47
Speaker 8: Well, basically what's happening is he he has some damage
25:51
Speaker 8: to his liver, again likely from Malcolm.
25:53
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I'm reading on in the external examination, and
25:58
Speaker 1: I remember Friends was huge. I was in law school
26:01
Speaker 1: and I never got to watch TV, but everybody else watched
26:03
Speaker 1: it and loved him. And when I think about him
26:07
Speaker 1: with that big smile, listen to this. The body is
26:11
Speaker 1: identified by toe tags and is that of an unembalmed,
26:15
Speaker 1: refrigerated adult male. It just seems so sad to me
26:22
Speaker 1: that he affected and touched so many people's lives and
26:25
Speaker 1: now he's identified by a toe tag. Okay, what do
26:30
Speaker 1: we know about the criminal investigation? Is there a crime?
26:35
Speaker 1: Was he attending rogue clinics that gave him too much ketamine?
26:40
Speaker 1: Gave him access to too much ketamine? Did he doctor shop?
26:44
Speaker 1: Did doctors have a duty to find out who else
26:49
Speaker 1: he was seeing? Was he going to different pharmacies to
26:55
Speaker 1: get ketamine and other drugs or did he have a
27:00
Speaker 1: drug supplier listen.
27:02
Speaker 3: The decision to file charges or not in the death
27:05
Speaker 3: of Matthew Perry rest in the US Attorney's office. Some
27:08
Speaker 3: experts point to the involvement of the California Branch of
27:11
Speaker 3: the Drug Enforcement Agency that federal authorities might be looking
27:15
Speaker 3: at distribution of a controlled substance resulting in death or
27:19
Speaker 3: conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance resulting in death charges.
27:23
Speaker 3: These types of charges are used to charge drug dealers,
27:26
Speaker 3: but can be used for pill mills and doctors who
27:28
Speaker 3: over prescribe narcotics without seeing patients, and.
27:31
Speaker 1: Friends that continually give you a pipeline to drugs. You know,
27:36
Speaker 1: when you think of a drug dealer, Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor,
27:40
Speaker 1: When you think of a drug dealer, you automatically think of, oh, gosh,
27:45
Speaker 1: here's a good stereotype of somebody sitting in a big
27:48
Speaker 1: mansion with Rottwilers guarding the front door, and you know,
27:54
Speaker 1: a big moat around their mansion, so you can't get
27:57
Speaker 1: to him in armed guards, maybe with a lot of
28:00
Speaker 1: gold chains. Yeah, it's not like that it's not like
28:03
Speaker 1: that at all. The supplier can be here and I'm
28:07
Speaker 1: definitely air quoting here best friend Wendy Patrick.
28:11
Speaker 10: Great point, Nancy, because if we were to confine our
28:14
Speaker 10: investigation to stereotypes, we would no doubt never find the suspects.
28:17
Speaker 10: And that's one of the things that makes drug abuse
28:20
Speaker 10: so difficult and so challenging, specifically because drug dealers come
28:24
Speaker 10: in all shapes and sciences, and even that terminology can
28:27
Speaker 10: be misleading. You have cases where you have an added
28:30
Speaker 10: sharing their pills with somebody that perhaps also has an addiction.
28:35
Speaker 10: You have people having legitimate prescriptions that they sell themselves,
28:39
Speaker 10: So there is no prototypical drug dealer that you need
28:41
Speaker 10: to look at. Rather, sometimes suspects are right under the
28:45
Speaker 10: noses of investigators that really broaden the search, particularly in
28:49
Speaker 10: a case like this where we're not talking.
28:51
Speaker 6: About crack cocaine.
28:52
Speaker 10: We're talking about a drug that is regularly in talk
28:56
Speaker 10: about air quotes at least in some circles, and for depression,
29:00
Speaker 10: and prescribed legitimately by physicians. Now the onus becomes a
29:04
Speaker 10: physician can only make a smart prescribing decision under the
29:08
Speaker 10: physician's creative do no harm if they know whether or
29:11
Speaker 10: not that patient is also receiving prescriptions from other places,
29:15
Speaker 10: are they prone to addiction, do they have a history
29:19
Speaker 10: of drug or alcohol abuse? So all those factors going
29:22
Speaker 10: to the prescribing decision, which itself.
29:24
Speaker 7: Can be complicated by there will be.
29:26
Speaker 10: No record of an addition to what you get legitimately,
29:29
Speaker 10: whether or not somebody is receiving drugs from associates, from friends,
29:33
Speaker 10: or from so called dealers on the.
29:35
Speaker 11: Street crime stories with Nancy Grace.
29:45
Speaker 2: Actor Matthew Perry dead a tragic ketamine overdose and hot
29:50
Speaker 2: tub drowning. Who gave Perry the lethal drugs?
29:54
Speaker 1: Okay, right now, we know that Britt Muehler was once
29:58
Speaker 1: romantically involved with and that they were still in touch
30:02
Speaker 1: at the time of his death, but we didn't know
30:05
Speaker 1: this Listen Brook.
30:06
Speaker 3: Mueller has retained a lawyer for help in navigating the
30:08
Speaker 3: multiple meetings she's having with law enforcement, and she's remaining
30:12
Speaker 3: tight lipped about the situation. An insider tells in Touch
30:15
Speaker 3: it's tough to say or know exactly what her role
30:18
Speaker 3: is in Matthew Perry's death, but Mueller is adamant she
30:22
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with.
30:23
Speaker 1: It, and again Lauren Colin. I don't want to convict
30:25
Speaker 1: Brooke Mueller. Now, all right, this woman is trying to
30:29
Speaker 1: make a goat for a life and sober living. I
30:31
Speaker 1: want to get the right person, not just any person. Also,
30:35
Speaker 1: you have the other issues, Lauren Colin. Was he doctor shopping?
30:39
Speaker 1: Was he going to rogue clinics? We don't know that,
30:42
Speaker 1: but for some reason we know Ellie law enforcement sees
30:46
Speaker 1: her laptop and phone. Lauren Colin, What more do we know?
30:50
Speaker 1: Because I'm sure, I think, I'm sure that she has
30:53
Speaker 1: never been arrested or handcuffed during any of these inquiries.
30:58
Speaker 1: The fact that she hired a lawyer, I mean, I
31:00
Speaker 1: think everybody in la has a lawyer on retainer. Why,
31:03
Speaker 1: I don't know that, but that's not shocking to me.
31:06
Speaker 4: No, Nancy, I was just going to say that everybody
31:09
Speaker 4: needs to stop acting like someone's guilty because.
31:12
Speaker 1: They lawyer up.
31:13
Speaker 4: Everybody should lawyer up, like you just said.
31:15
Speaker 12: But no, I want to point out the FBI truly
31:18
Speaker 12: believes that Matthew Perry or someone in his quote inner
31:22
Speaker 12: circle was doctor shopping to multiple physitions in different states
31:26
Speaker 12: to obtain the ketamine and have.
31:28
Speaker 4: Those doctors send prescriptions. Across state lines. Perhaps that's the case,
31:33
Speaker 4: but this is a federal offense. So for whatever reason,
31:36
Speaker 4: Brooke Mueller is the only name that they have released.
31:39
Speaker 4: And I agree with you, she is being questioned, she's cooperating,
31:43
Speaker 4: but she's not necessarily a suspect.
31:46
Speaker 1: Although I've got to agree also with Michael Mike McCormick
31:49
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, because when the authorities keep coming back to
31:53
Speaker 1: you and coming back to you, that's a concern in
31:57
Speaker 1: an investigation. You would have thought that she would have
32:00
Speaker 1: handed over her phone and laptop cooperating with them. And
32:03
Speaker 1: we've been told she is cooperating and that would be
32:05
Speaker 1: the end of it. But it could be as simple
32:08
Speaker 1: as did they at one time have the same supplier?
32:11
Speaker 1: What were they talking about? I don't know, but it
32:14
Speaker 1: does rape raise a red flag Wendy Patrick that they
32:20
Speaker 1: continue to question her.
32:22
Speaker 10: Yeah, it sounds almost like because the two of them
32:25
Speaker 10: knew each other from a rehab facility, that perhaps they
32:28
Speaker 10: shared a lot of information in addition to sharing mutual
32:31
Speaker 10: friends that may have themselves relapsed and there in lives
32:35
Speaker 10: where an investigation needs to go is that how much
32:38
Speaker 10: information can she continue to provide once they are also
32:42
Speaker 10: investigating leads from other places that they can then go
32:45
Speaker 10: back and ask a supplement question. Doesn't mean she's a
32:48
Speaker 10: suspect at all. I mean she may have the kind
32:50
Speaker 10: of information that would be valuable for them to continue
32:53
Speaker 10: to follow up on.
32:54
Speaker 7: Then when they find.
32:55
Speaker 10: Out new facts she can corroborate, she can admit deny.
32:58
Speaker 10: Remember she's been cooperative, and that is what we have
33:02
Speaker 10: to view in terms of turning over the phone in
33:05
Speaker 10: the laptop, whether they were seized, whether she gave them voluntarily.
33:08
Speaker 7: It means that there's something in.
33:10
Speaker 10: Her past as well that may be instrumental, not incriminating
33:15
Speaker 10: necessarily with respect to her, but instrumental and law enforcement
33:18
Speaker 10: finding who's to blame? And the ultimate question where did
33:22
Speaker 10: he get the drugs?
33:23
Speaker 1: We are being told that the criminal investigation into Matthew
33:26
Speaker 1: Perry's death is quote wrapping up our charges to follow.
33:32
Speaker 1: Another issue out to Mike McCormick, Honorarly and investigator mcm
33:36
Speaker 1: investigations in LA is that when they showed up to
33:40
Speaker 1: meet with her, meet with her at her sober living house,
33:45
Speaker 1: they had a search warrant with them. Now I can
33:49
Speaker 1: tell you this much. When I went to interview witnesses
33:54
Speaker 1: in every square inch of the city of Atlanta, Fulton County.
33:58
Speaker 1: I usually did not take a search warrant. I'd knock
34:00
Speaker 1: on the door, they let me in. We'd sit down
34:03
Speaker 1: and talk and I'd make notes. We'd have iced tea,
34:07
Speaker 1: and that would be that. Once in a while i'd
34:10
Speaker 1: have a subpoena with me to personally deliver it to
34:13
Speaker 1: them for them to come to court, or a subpoena
34:15
Speaker 1: duketikam for documents to come to court. But not a
34:20
Speaker 1: search warrant. That is a subtle but very important distinction.
34:26
Speaker 9: Absolutely better to have it and not need it than
34:29
Speaker 9: need it and not have it.
34:30
Speaker 1: But why a search warrant?
34:31
Speaker 9: Mike in kise can't get what they want voluntarily.
34:35
Speaker 1: It means Wendy Patrick and Mike McCormick is correct, But
34:39
Speaker 1: it means they go to her for a reason. They
34:45
Speaker 1: are seeking something. You have to have a search warrant
34:48
Speaker 1: to enter a defendant's home, or to really for police
34:51
Speaker 1: to enter any home, you've got to have a search warrant.
34:53
Speaker 1: They're looking for something directly connected to a criminal investigation.
35:00
Speaker 1: That's what a search want is. That's right, and.
35:02
Speaker 10: It has to be supported by sufficient facts and circumstances
35:05
Speaker 10: to justify a judge having granted it.
35:08
Speaker 7: And that's important here because you think about all of
35:10
Speaker 7: what was in that affidata.
35:11
Speaker 10: They would have had to explain what they're looking for,
35:15
Speaker 10: what their experience is, and why they think that they're
35:18
Speaker 10: going to find it on her devices, whether it's a phone,
35:22
Speaker 10: whether it's a laptop. You can't just go out and
35:24
Speaker 10: get a search warrant. You need to do all the
35:26
Speaker 10: background investigation that allows you to articulate with secificity what
35:31
Speaker 10: you're looking for, why you think it's going to be there,
35:34
Speaker 10: and then of course you need a judge to agree
35:36
Speaker 10: to all of that. So you have to imagine a
35:38
Speaker 10: lot of that background information that they already did led
35:41
Speaker 10: them to that point.
35:42
Speaker 2: Bombshell investigators and law enforcement are looking to charge multiple
35:47
Speaker 2: suspects in the tragic ketamine death of Friends actor Matthew Perry.
35:52
Speaker 1: The incredental investigation to the death a Friends star Matthew
35:55
Speaker 1: Perry is ongoing. We've been told it's very close to
35:59
Speaker 1: being quote wrapped up. Will there be criminal charges as
36:02
Speaker 1: it relates to Perry's death? Right now? We know that
36:06
Speaker 1: his former girlfriend sweetheart Brooke Mueller has been questioned repeatedly
36:11
Speaker 1: pursuant to search warrant. She has not been named a
36:15
Speaker 1: target of the investigation. Perry himself wrote about his addiction Listen.
36:20
Speaker 3: Matthew Perry wrote about his issues with addiction to alcohol
36:23
Speaker 3: and drugs in his memoir. He said he began drinking
36:26
Speaker 3: at fourteen and was an alcoholic by eighteen. Perry first
36:29
Speaker 3: went to rehab and completed a twenty eight day program
36:31
Speaker 3: at Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation after a jet ski accident
36:34
Speaker 3: led to an addiction to vicoden. In his twenty twenty
36:37
Speaker 3: two memoir Friends, Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing, Perry
36:40
Speaker 3: claimed to have been to rehab fifteen times, detox sixty
36:44
Speaker 3: five times, and spent about seven to nine million dollars
36:47
Speaker 3: trying to get sober.
36:48
Speaker 1: You know what, I don't care about the money or
36:50
Speaker 1: the fame this guy had. He was living in hell
36:54
Speaker 1: trying to get out from under addiction. Okay, we know
36:57
Speaker 1: about him, But who is she? Lauren Colin in a nutshell?
37:01
Speaker 1: Brooke Mueller.
37:02
Speaker 4: Yes, Brooke Mueller is from Florida. She was actually born
37:06
Speaker 4: in upstate New York. She had a very wealthy stepfather
37:09
Speaker 4: and that led to her pretty much pursuing whatever she wanted.
37:13
Speaker 4: She became friends with Paris Hilton, she did reality TV,
37:16
Speaker 4: she was an actress at one point, and then she
37:19
Speaker 4: did some real estate development and she ended up meeting
37:22
Speaker 4: Charlie Sheen.
37:23
Speaker 1: So to doctor Bethany Marshall, and that makes many of
37:25
Speaker 1: us regular mortals wonder when people have so much money
37:30
Speaker 1: born with a silverspoon in their mouths her, I don't
37:33
Speaker 1: know that he was necessarily born with a single silverspoon
37:36
Speaker 1: in his mouth, but he became a superstar, money, fame,
37:42
Speaker 1: suck ups all around you, seemingly having everything. Why drug addiction?
37:48
Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, drug addiction is very biologically motivated. You know,
37:53
Speaker 6: there's so much talk about trauma and family dysfunction and
37:56
Speaker 6: all the things that happened situationally that prime people for addiction.
38:00
Speaker 6: But basically there's a very strong biological component. So let's
38:04
Speaker 6: say you have the predisposition for addiction, and then you
38:08
Speaker 6: have to quote you suck ups all around you that
38:11
Speaker 6: really want you to not be aware of what's going on,
38:14
Speaker 6: maybe con artists, maybe an agent or a manager who
38:17
Speaker 6: wants to push you into jobs you're not ready for.
38:20
Speaker 6: What is the best way to render somebody unaware of
38:25
Speaker 6: what you're doing. If you want to take advantage of them,
38:27
Speaker 6: supply them with drugs, then they'll pay you. Then you'll
38:30
Speaker 6: be their best friend. And you know, doctors are not
38:34
Speaker 6: immune from this. We saw this with Michael Jackson. You know,
38:38
Speaker 6: celebrities when they have this horrible, horrible disease state, they
38:41
Speaker 6: will go from one person to another to another until
38:44
Speaker 6: they find somebody who will supply them. And Nancy, I
38:48
Speaker 6: just want your audience to know that when an addict
38:51
Speaker 6: or a person suffering from addiction has had some period
38:54
Speaker 6: of sobriety, the next time they use they will binge. Okay,
38:59
Speaker 6: that is so commonly known in the field. So let's
39:01
Speaker 6: take Whitney Houston. She may have been sober for a
39:03
Speaker 6: while before she had her you know, overdose when she
39:07
Speaker 6: came to Los Angeles. We could have seen this with
39:10
Speaker 6: Prince So he was in an enormously vulnerable state because
39:13
Speaker 6: he was trying to get sober.
39:15
Speaker 7: So there was probably a big yo yo.
39:17
Speaker 6: Between sobriety binging, sobriety binging, and that became a perfect
39:21
Speaker 6: storm that led to his death.
39:23
Speaker 1: It makes people wonder if superstars like Matthew Perry and
39:30
Speaker 1: actress Brooke Mueller. With all that money, can't be happy
39:34
Speaker 1: and resort to drugs and become addicts. What hope is
39:38
Speaker 1: there for the rest of us? You know what, I'm
39:40
Speaker 1: going to stay with being a teetotaler. I'm not even
39:43
Speaker 1: going to put my toe in that pond. We wait
39:47
Speaker 1: as just as unfolds and this criminal investigation into the
39:50
Speaker 1: death a friend, star Matthew Perry comes to a culmination.
39:55
Speaker 1: But right now we stop and we remember an American
39:59
Speaker 1: hero police officer, Peter E. C. Jerving Milwaukee p D,
40:04
Speaker 1: Wisconsin Officer Gerving shot killed in the line of duty,
40:09
Speaker 1: survived by grieving parents Patty and Douglas, and beloved sweetheart Magan.
40:16
Speaker 1: American hero police officer Peter E. C. Jerving. I want
40:21
Speaker 1: to thank all of our guests tonight, a real brain
40:24
Speaker 1: trust as we once again wide into addiction that ends
40:30
Speaker 1: in death. Thank you for being with us. Nancy Gray
40:34
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend.