Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP14 - Technomancy & Shamanism (feat. Bret Bernhoft)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP14 - Technomancy & Shamanism (feat. Bret Bernhoft) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast, where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
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  Yes folks, welcome back to another week of the podcast.
• 1:09
  Another week of springtime kicking in full gear.
• 1:14
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• 1:17
  we are. In the first week of April,
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  we've passed the Equinox. We're just around the corner
• 1:23
  here getting reared up and ready to go or geared up and ready to
• 1:26
  go, reared and ready to go, as they say, for the solar eclipse
• 1:32
  that's about to happen here. So if you're listening to this
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  page, let me know where you're going to be watching this from
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  or where you're coming from to go watch it.
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  I know a lot of folks are traveling to Texas to get into
• 1:58
  the path of totality here in Tennessee and Kentucky area.
• 2:03
  It's going to not be entirely like we're we're not going to
• 2:06
  see full totality, but it's going to be a quite a quite a
• 2:11
  big coverage thing. So hopefully we have clear Skies
• 2:15
  and optimal viewing for that. So looking forward to that.
• 2:20
  But yeah, today's episode is going to be a fun one.
• 2:24
  I think we've got a guest coming on here today who's been a guest
• 2:28
  on another podcast or another show that I've checked a couple
• 2:33
  of episodes out on called The Integral Stage.
• 2:37
  For any of you folks out here that may have heard of or know
• 2:39
  of Layman Pascal, he's got a pretty cool YouTube channel out
• 2:43
  there tapping a bit into more of like the.
• 2:47
  I don't know if this is like an accurate summary of it, but he
• 2:49
  does a lot of things to do with like esoteric stuffed in
• 2:56
  general. Not not entirely paganism
• 2:59
  related or or anything like that.
• 3:01
  But my guest today was a guest on his show in the past and my
• 3:08
  guest name's today. His name is Brett Bernhoff and
• 3:10
  he is a Pagan who has come up with some ideas or some ways of
• 3:16
  kind of like introducing or integrating, as it were, the
• 3:21
  modern technology, modern things into ancient ways or or or, you
• 3:27
  know, a bit of a old meets new sort of thing.
• 3:32
  He briefly summarized his particular interest or focus, I
• 3:38
  should say, if I can just see here what he was saying.
• 3:44
  Yeah, he had wrote into my e-mail and he had said that, you
• 3:49
  know, his particular actually let me do this here, let me
• 3:54
  operate on this one. So my particular focus in the
• 3:57
  Pagan world is the use of modern technologies alongside
• 4:02
  traditional magic and shamanism practices.
• 4:05
  I'm also a developer studying artificial intelligence which
• 4:10
  would be a lot of fun to discuss with you in the context of
• 4:15
  contemporary Heathenry or contemporary Heathenism as he
• 4:17
  puts it. So we are going to be to be
• 4:19
  talking about that today. I know the topics of you know AI
• 4:22
  and how it's been leveraged and in the future of of its use and
• 4:27
  stuff in in in our world. This day is is a hot topic for a
• 4:30
  lot of folks especially you know those in the performing arts or
• 4:35
  or creative arts sectors. You know, they feel like a lot
• 4:38
  of what AI does in that area is robbing artists of their
• 4:43
  originality and all kinds of things.
• 4:44
  So it's going to be interesting to talk to Brett today about his
• 4:47
  take on it, kind of see what his his take and angle is.
• 4:50
  He does mention paganism as as a as an area of focus.
• 4:54
  So don't think he's heathen, but we're going to learn more about
• 4:56
  him hopefully here in just a moment before we welcome him in.
• 4:59
  As always, just some minor housekeeping things.
• 5:02
  Do be sure to check out the show notes or description area of the
• 5:06
  podcast with you're listening to this on Spotify or watching this
• 5:09
  on Patreon for the link tree link All the ways that you can
• 5:13
  support the podcast here. Midgard Musings as a whole.
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  If you aren't watching this on Patreon and you want to, the
• 5:20
  link for that is in the link tree link.
• 5:22
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  there fits you. So be sure to check that out.
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  And a real quick special shout out to my patrons on Patreon
• 6:00
  because you guys and gals out here are the reason why the
• 6:04
  Random Heathen Ramblings podcast has a video format anymore.
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  I wouldn't be doing the video thing if it weren't for you guys
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  here on Patreon. So thank you so much for wanting
• 6:14
  to be supportive in this way and watch this as as we as we go
• 6:19
  along. So thank you all for that.
• 6:21
  Be sure to check it all out. Anything that Brett offers as
• 6:25
  well is going to be linked down in the description or over in
• 6:28
  the podcast show notes. If he has anything that he can
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  be, you know, supported by or followed on any social links
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  like that, we're going to be letting him share all that.
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  So if you do see anything down there and you like what you see
• 6:39
  and or hear on the show today from him, support him in any way
• 6:43
  that you can. So without further ado, let's go
• 6:46
  ahead and welcome in Brett Bernhoff to talk about bringing
• 6:50
  the past into the present and how he finds an integration of
• 6:55
  modern technology with ancient practices.
• 6:58
  Let's get into it. All right, folks.
• 7:02
  Welcome back to the show and welcome to the first time as my
• 7:06
  guest. This is Brett Bernhoff.
• 7:08
  He's located out in the Pacific Northwest and is a Pagan, as I
• 7:11
  understand it. Not sure what kind of Pagan, but
• 7:13
  that's always a fun topic just to get into when you first meet
• 7:16
  somebody, right, Brett? So welcome to the show.
• 7:18
  Thanks for coming on. Thank you very much.
• 7:20
  It's it's a pleasure to be here. I have, I have been a Pagan, A
• 7:24
  privately practicing solo practitionering practitioner
• 7:29
  styled Pagan for about 10 years now and and most of it has been
• 7:33
  introduction to whatever resources I could find from
• 7:37
  local. I guess you could call it occult
• 7:40
  book shops in Portland, OR, which there are quite a few to
• 7:44
  Amazon Books really books with my introduction to Paganism in
• 7:48
  general. And then I started having, I, I
• 7:54
  guess you, you could call them transformative experiences.
• 7:57
  And from those experiences came more Gnosis than than reading,
• 8:03
  and a deeper sort of flowing of my relationship to, I guess you
• 8:07
  could say, my act of spirituality.
• 8:10
  Yeah, those, those, those type of experiences I feel are what
• 8:15
  really shape us into human like, you know, the whole human
• 8:17
  experience. We're not going to really like
• 8:22
  find those places in ourselves through a book like we might get
• 8:26
  some bread crumbs or it might kind of point us in a direction.
• 8:29
  But where we where we truly find ourselves in in whether it's a
• 8:34
  spirituality or philosophy or anything like that, it happens
• 8:37
  through those those those real life experiences I think
• 8:41
  personally so. And you were you were were you
• 8:46
  religious beforehand like did you have any background in any
• 8:49
  other sort of religiosity prior to to finding Paganism as a sort
• 8:54
  of niche or or or place to call home?
• 8:58
  As a child I was taken to church and my we lived in a cul-de-sac
• 9:03
  and the pastor of the church lived right next door to us or
• 9:06
  across the street from us, you could say, and the whole thing
• 9:10
  was going to church up till about the age of 10.
• 9:12
  And then my parents decided to stop going and I was able to,
• 9:17
  quite frankly, freely choose my beliefs and explore, as was
• 9:23
  capable of being done in the year 2004 when I was in high
• 9:27
  school. And so, yes, I do have some
• 9:31
  background in religion, but nothing binding, I guess you
• 9:35
  could say. That's the way I look at it.
• 9:37
  Yeah, that's really cool that you're, you know, 'cause I, I,
• 9:41
  you know, a lot of folks that have grown up in maybe a more
• 9:44
  traditional religious family, whether you know, Christianity
• 9:47
  or or maybe any other big ones, Judaism, Islam, whatever.
• 9:51
  You know, they they don't get the if they if they grew up in
• 9:54
  that, then it's it's rare for at least for me to encounter people
• 9:58
  that were given the opportunities early in their
• 10:01
  youth or early in their years to feel free enough to explore
• 10:06
  outside of that. It's usually like John or looked
• 10:11
  down upon to to stray away from that, you know, thing that you
• 10:14
  were brought up in. So that's pretty cool that you
• 10:18
  had that opportunity and that freedom that.
• 10:21
  I would. Sorry, go ahead.
• 10:22
  I'm a mistake? Oh no, you're good.
• 10:25
  So did the, you know when when you were given that opportunity
• 10:29
  is, is is that where this whole path for you started into non
• 10:34
  traditional beliefs And then then you kind of in the last 10
• 10:36
  years like you said before landed in this version of
• 10:40
  paganism that you're in now? That that is a very, that is a
• 10:45
  very essential way of saying how I've gotten to where I am today.
• 10:48
  I remember there was one particular book that I read as a
• 10:51
  child or as a youth, and that was a book on world religions.
• 10:56
  And just to me, the the incredible diversity of world
• 10:59
  religions like Hinduism stood out to me as being phenomenally
• 11:02
  interesting at that age. And I was, I was really in some
• 11:07
  ways intellectually breathtaking or my my intellectual fire had
• 11:13
  been lit. That's probably a better way of
• 11:14
  describing it. And then I followed.
• 11:17
  I kind of turned off the reading for a while as I figured out
• 11:21
  what I wanted to do as an adult. But around the year 2011, 2012,
• 11:26
  I had some very powerful experiences that changed me for
• 11:30
  forever. And I started reading Pagan
• 11:32
  books again, or at least more seriously.
• 11:35
  And I look over at my bookshelf and I still have, you know, all
• 11:38
  the books that I've collected over the years.
• 11:40
  And it's it's been a very I'm. I am the same person I was when
• 11:48
  I first started this journey. But I am certainly expressing
• 11:53
  myself in a different way today because of what I've learned and
• 11:57
  experienced and now noted. Be true and believe and value
• 12:03
  for sure. That's interesting.
• 12:05
  Yeah. I always like hearing people's,
• 12:08
  you know, transformation story if they want to call it that or
• 12:12
  or let me let's look at it one way of putting it.
• 12:15
  But you know where they were when they started versus where
• 12:19
  they are at the time of our meeting, you know, or our
• 12:22
  discussion. And I've heard different people
• 12:24
  say different ways. You know, I've heard people feel
• 12:28
  like, you know, there's there's parts of me that are definitely
• 12:32
  not the same anymore. I'm not the same heathen or I'm
• 12:34
  not the same Pagan now as I was then.
• 12:38
  I've even said it. I think myself, you know, I'm
• 12:40
  not. I'm not the same heathen as I
• 12:43
  was, was when I discovered Heathenry.
• 12:45
  You know, I had AI had a view of the world at the time because I
• 12:48
  was learning, you know, and and there were things that I was
• 12:51
  having to essentially deconstruct about, things that I
• 12:56
  was learning about in Heathenry that were not the same as what I
• 12:59
  was brought up in or raised in or that I had established a
• 13:02
  worldview on through at that point, my life up to that point.
• 13:07
  Right. And so, yeah, but that's an
• 13:10
  interesting point to take is that you know we us as a person,
• 13:15
  you know like you're still Brett, you know I'm still me and
• 13:18
  we are still we. But the the certain the things
• 13:21
  about what we discover our experiences.
• 13:26
  Yeah, like it's a it's a different version of us.
• 13:28
  It's like the it's like an OS upgrade or something like, hey,
• 13:31
  it's still Windows, but it ain't as clunky as as as Vista, you
• 13:34
  know, or whatever. Absolutely.
• 13:37
  That's a great way. I would, I would honestly agree
• 13:39
  with you that it is an upgrade for anyone who goes down this
• 13:42
  path. It it doesn't have to be and it
• 13:44
  certainly isn't guaranteed to be.
• 13:49
  But and by that I mean some people, some individuals faults
• 13:53
  are for one reason or another on the path in their own way, in
• 13:56
  their own definition of success. And that's that's a whole other
• 14:00
  conversation. But I would agree with you that
• 14:02
  my experience with paganism and magic and the occult and the
• 14:06
  esoteric and really energy and personal responsibility and
• 14:11
  accountability has been a a a substantial upgrade upgrade.
• 14:18
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:20
  It's almost like, you know, when when we start getting into these
• 14:22
  types of beliefs whether it's a you know and it what's
• 14:26
  interesting is, you know, paganism is, is is like an
• 14:28
  overarching term. It's a it's a generalization of
• 14:31
  something. You know you can be a Celtic
• 14:33
  Pagan, you can be a, you know, kinetic Pagan, you can be a a
• 14:38
  Vedic Pagan. I mean you could be all kinds of
• 14:40
  different Pagan. Really it's it's it's not
• 14:43
  specific to one, you know, dogmatic view or or anything
• 14:49
  like that. It's it's kind of an overarching
• 14:51
  term. But I do notice that any of
• 14:54
  these, whether you call it non traditional religions or you
• 14:58
  know a lot of it is based in finding where we are in this
• 15:02
  whole big scheme of things. And and what a lot of times
• 15:06
  comes out is that we are it. You know, we're not just part of
• 15:10
  it as we are it, and it's it's part of our, it's part of the
• 15:16
  human experience. To find that that that sort of
• 15:24
  it's a discovery I think is is another way of putting it.
• 15:27
  You know, like wow, this has been this way this whole time
• 15:30
  and I'm just now figuring this out or I'm just now discovering
• 15:33
  that this is the way it is. You know, it's not like what
• 15:36
  we've become has changed anything up to that point.
• 15:39
  It's now we've just be kind of we we we've become more in tune
• 15:43
  with it whether it be through some various you know gnosis or
• 15:50
  or studies or other personal experiences or things.
• 15:54
  These these types of paths I feel open up more of that than
• 15:59
  other of your more maybe traditional direction of going
• 16:03
  and thing, you know what I mean. I I I couldn't agree with you
• 16:08
  more. I I this path has been this path
• 16:13
  is open to everyone. It's it's the in my in my
• 16:16
  observation and opinion, it is the default path of humanity,
• 16:20
  just paganism in general. That said, it is open to anyone
• 16:24
  who wants to pursue it, regardless of really anything.
• 16:29
  You can choose to be a Pagan immediately and start noticing
• 16:34
  things around you and you become magical very soon, synchronistic
• 16:38
  very quickly after that. Yes, go ahead.
• 16:43
  Please go ahead. I don't know.
• 16:44
  I'll say you were saying, I want to hear more from you.
• 16:46
  One of the things you were, I think you're about to say.
• 16:48
  So yeah, I want to turn it. I want to hear more from you.
• 16:50
  Man, this is interesting. All right.
• 16:54
  My journey has been very, very long.
• 16:58
  It's been a long journey. It's been since I was about 21
• 17:01
  when I first started having these kinds of open experiences,
• 17:05
  these kinds of transcendental experiences that really came
• 17:08
  from quite frankly, and I I will just say personal enthusion
• 17:15
  experiences opened me to the next level of reality.
• 17:20
  And I'm not condoning and I'm not and I'm not telling people
• 17:23
  to do anything in particular with that statement.
• 17:25
  I'm saying in my world those were choices.
• 17:28
  I made sure those were things that out the outcomes were
• 17:32
  spectacular. I I was able to without having,
• 17:36
  if if we want to get down the brass tacks.
• 17:38
  In all honesty, the thing that really transformed me was when I
• 17:42
  was when I was visited by three different deities in three
• 17:45
  different circumstances. Totally irrelevant pantheons,
• 17:51
  very specific forms, messages that were given to me that were
• 17:56
  not unique or powerful, but they just remember this.
• 18:00
  You are, you're on a journey, you are.
• 18:02
  You're not necessarily special, but you have the potential to
• 18:05
  become something great. So work on that.
• 18:08
  Do some do your homework. Remember these experiences.
• 18:10
  And I don't know if name dropping deities is is important
• 18:15
  in the occult community, but I I try to avoid it.
• 18:18
  I try to just say I was visited by some some guides I guess you
• 18:24
  could say and they told me in in one in words that were silent
• 18:29
  that none of them spoke to me. Actually through it it, it was
• 18:34
  also like a almost overwhelming psychic experience.
• 18:41
  And are you? Yeah.
• 18:44
  So the the, the ways we could go with this conversation are any
• 18:47
  that you want to take it but. Oh, I I will just say real
• 18:50
  quick. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty
• 18:53
  free when it comes to talking about things like plant medicine
• 18:56
  and and and altered states of consciousness and and
• 18:59
  incorporating things. I mean, look, it's it's a human
• 19:04
  right. I feel you know and and people
• 19:07
  are are free to choose what they want to do, how they want to
• 19:11
  experience certain things, what kind of doors they want to
• 19:14
  unlock and and what paths they want to go down to to to reach
• 19:17
  those destinations. I'm a huge advocate for for
• 19:21
  plant medicine when done rightly.
• 19:24
  And so I'll just say that much for right now, right.
• 19:27
  I mean I've had experiences myself.
• 19:29
  So you know, hearing you talk, I'm like I think I know where
• 19:33
  what he's talking about here, it's it's, you know, kind
• 19:35
  recognizes, kind in in the in that way, not wanting to assume
• 19:39
  things. But conversations like this I've
• 19:43
  had with other people and it always starts out kind of in the
• 19:45
  same way. And then we end up talking like,
• 19:48
  yeah, man, do you remember that one time when you were, you
• 19:50
  know, whatever, so. I I can dig that I I understand
• 19:56
  what you're saying and appreciate the space to tell
• 19:59
  truth for that because that is that is part of my journey books
• 20:03
  and enthugens and and limited quantities.
• 20:07
  When I was younger, and I would say transcendental experiences
• 20:12
  that came from that Nexus and the intention to have, I was,
• 20:18
  the universe told me very specifically.
• 20:20
  If you want the so-called. Toy that you think enlightenment
• 20:24
  is we're going to give you something very significant and
• 20:26
  that was a it was a total breakdown of my reality.
• 20:31
  At first I I had to. This was like 13 years ago.
• 20:35
  I had to go through a a very specific tabula rasa event where
• 20:42
  a lot of my biases and opinions were erased and I was brought
• 20:47
  sort of to a deciding point. Do you want to continue on as as
• 20:51
  an individual, or do you want to be lost in the stream of thought
• 20:55
  forever? Do you want to be forgotten and
• 20:57
  not make anything out of this life?
• 20:59
  And I chose very specifically to continue on, 'cause I had just
• 21:03
  gotten started. I had just found the fire that
• 21:06
  Prometheus stole from the gods, and I wanted to use that that
• 21:09
  tool myself. So I communicated with the deity
• 21:14
  that I was talking to, that I wanted to continue.
• 21:18
  I wanted to move forward and I did not want to give up.
• 21:21
  And so I spent a good decade of my life rebuilding myself.
• 21:25
  And by that I mean going through health issues of sorts and and
• 21:32
  all sorts of all sorts of things that have been suppressed and
• 21:35
  given to me through genetics and experiences boiled up to the
• 21:38
  surface and I needed to deal with all of it at once.
• 21:42
  And so I did and it took about a decade.
• 21:44
  And after I had my I what I consider a legitimate Kundalini
• 21:49
  experience, I had a very clear moment in my mind that, OK, I am
• 21:56
  now ready to begin kind of coming out of my shell a little
• 21:59
  bit. I'm able to put these
• 22:01
  experiences into cogent words, I'm able to relate to others
• 22:05
  that have had similar experiences, etcetera.
• 22:07
  And I can start building communities.
• 22:09
  That's something that I've been quite active in doing and put
• 22:13
  the stuff to use. So that that is something that
• 22:16
  I've done with the last leg seven or eight years in
• 22:20
  particular. That's fantastic.
• 22:24
  Yeah. Had you not gone through those,
• 22:26
  had those, had those experiences not, you know, presented
• 22:29
  themselves well, really, you know, the experience, you know,
• 22:32
  can present itself. But ultimately we're left with
• 22:34
  the choice, right? And if you had chosen otherwise,
• 22:39
  probably would have been a different outcome, right?
• 22:42
  A180A significantly different outcome.
• 22:46
  Yeah. To be frank with you and and to
• 22:49
  say this in in in all seriousness with the the the
• 22:53
  weight of these choices are very hefty first and foremost.
• 22:56
  But secondly it would have been lost my mind.
• 22:59
  I would not have been able to recapture a sense of identity
• 23:03
  that was useful in this world, and it was that.
• 23:08
  And that's why I think your your statement of having to use
• 23:12
  entheogens in the proper way is something our society is
• 23:16
  learning very quickly. I think, at least I hope it is,
• 23:21
  because that's very important. Yeah.
• 23:23
  I don't know if it's just because the algorithm is is
• 23:26
  doing what it's supposed to do and I'm getting, you know, more
• 23:28
  information fed to me that reflects what you're saying and
• 23:32
  suggests that there's a a higher awareness in a, in a in a you
• 23:36
  know, we're moving in the direction of like, hey, this is
• 23:38
  this is important. People need this, this, this
• 23:40
  works. This is when when administered,
• 23:42
  you know, safely, correctly, properly, right.
• 23:46
  We're not just, this isn't just, you know, everybody out here
• 23:49
  trying to party and get ripped. There's that dogma.
• 23:54
  That's that's I think a big problem of of why we're kind of
• 23:56
  stuck in this rut in a way or or such, why there's such a slow
• 24:01
  progression, you know, towards safely integrating these types
• 24:08
  of things into our everyday life, into our everyday society.
• 24:11
  I mean it's it it can't be because of the science that
• 24:15
  backs it up. I mean it's blatant.
• 24:16
  It's it's fact it's. I mean people have gone through
• 24:21
  great lengths to prove through science that there's benefit to
• 24:25
  the to these types of things in in a multitude of ways that
• 24:31
  there's still this shadow that kind of hangs over that that is
• 24:36
  is is still got a pretty big influence you know so but yeah
• 24:41
  it's it's it is it's it's and you know I think too that when a
• 24:46
  person goes down this path and and finds that that is where
• 24:51
  their path leads them through plant medicine and other such
• 24:54
  things and and they've had it. You know they've had such
• 25:01
  profound experiences that there is a there there is an amount
• 25:06
  and a degree of of obligation and responsibility that those
• 25:11
  people have to, you know, again responsibly advocate but but be
• 25:18
  a sort of guide, you know, not, not not be like this hoarder of
• 25:22
  knowledge or this hoarder of information, you know, and to be
• 25:26
  free with it to a degree. I don't know what you think
• 25:30
  about that but I think once you've experienced certain
• 25:33
  things you you realize, man, this isn't just, it's for me.
• 25:37
  It can't be just for me, you know, I'm a part of all of this.
• 25:41
  This is a part of all of me. I am this, right?
• 25:43
  Right. We are this together.
• 25:44
  So it's like a like an unspoken contract that you sign in a way
• 25:51
  when you get to that point, like now carry this flame, share it,
• 25:57
  you know, What do you think about that?
• 26:01
  I think that, OK, there's two things I think about that.
• 26:05
  One, I agree with you that carrying the flame or the the
• 26:08
  Perennial philosophy flame, if you wanna call it that, the the
• 26:12
  real, the real truth of everything that we're doing, you
• 26:17
  know as that itself is I feel an obligation.
• 26:21
  So I would agree with you, and at the same time I think that
• 26:25
  the Perennial Philosophy Flame or the fire that is the truth of
• 26:30
  the universe will always find a way to.
• 26:33
  I've here's what I've here's what I've heard.
• 26:35
  I've I've heard that the flame will always protect itself.
• 26:38
  The truths that make up the great mystery religions, the
• 26:42
  things that we all have touched and interacted with to some
• 26:45
  degree will always find the bodies it needs or the minds and
• 26:50
  the voices it needs to carry itself forward as as a sort of a
• 26:55
  like a virus, but a positive virus, like a hearing virus, if
• 26:59
  you will. Yeah.
• 27:01
  So I definitely agree. I I felt the same.
• 27:04
  I want to call it almost a compulsion, like I've got to
• 27:06
  share this knowledge. It's it's it's like this is,
• 27:10
  this is the the ground floor that we can all work on and I've
• 27:14
  got to tell people about this stuff.
• 27:16
  Yeah, yeah. That's an that's a good
• 27:19
  observation you know. Yeah.
• 27:21
  Like it it it doesn't need us to to be this way.
• 27:25
  Like it doesn't need us to to to share.
• 27:27
  We're just, I think, I don't know, it's it's hard not to
• 27:31
  share. Like it's hard not to want to be
• 27:33
  just a bit free with it, you know, not not carelessly free,
• 27:40
  you know what I mean? Not just being like, hey man,
• 27:42
  everybody needs to, you know consume this thing that or the
• 27:46
  other or whatever. I'm not talking like that.
• 27:47
  Not again, the whole responsibility, the whole doing
• 27:51
  it responsibly, but just, you know, being advocates for it.
• 27:56
  Now, you had talked to me, we, we had exchanged emails about,
• 28:01
  you know, because what we're talking about right now.
• 28:02
  Like, yeah, sure. I think everybody that's
• 28:04
  listening to this or when they listen to this and watch it or
• 28:07
  watch it, whichever, they get the gist, they know what we're
• 28:10
  talking about. And it comes from a place of
• 28:12
  ancient perspectives or there's modern science and all this that
• 28:17
  backs up what has been known by the ancients and what's been
• 28:21
  around since time immemorial. But what is someone of the
• 28:25
  things you would mention to me about want to talk about was
• 28:30
  utilizing modern technology alongside ancient practices?
• 28:36
  I don't know if that aligns with what we've already been talking
• 28:41
  about. But if it does or doesn't, would
• 28:44
  you care to kind of segue into that portion of things and share
• 28:50
  with us what you've come to want to think on with, with, with,
• 28:55
  with terms of using modern technology alongside these, you
• 29:00
  know, ancient, shamanic and animistic practices and beliefs?
• 29:05
  Absolutely. And that's thank you for the the
• 29:08
  perfect introduction to the to that.
• 29:10
  What I want to talk about the animistic and shamanic
• 29:13
  perspective is definitely at the core of what I feel is important
• 29:18
  about Paganism. Or at least for me, this is just
• 29:22
  my my paganism. I feel that shamanism, animism,
• 29:28
  prayer, if you want to call it that, meditation.
• 29:30
  The basics, the things that really simplify things down,
• 29:34
  that are at the essential root of it, are very important.
• 29:37
  But yes, I have had very distinct experiences.
• 29:42
  My research has in my opinion been pretty conclusive enough
• 29:47
  for me to put my energy into this kind of stuff that I'm
• 29:50
  about to describe. And I have had results, very
• 29:54
  specific results with some of the communities that I've built
• 29:58
  and the tools that I've built where I can, I have integrated
• 30:02
  in my own practice from the the layout of my workspace, which
• 30:06
  you see a portion of over here is my as my altar.
• 30:10
  I have created tools that are like for divination, such as
• 30:15
  tarot reading tools, scrying tools, trend finding tools that
• 30:21
  help you summarize text with artificial intelligence for
• 30:24
  purposes of divination, etcetera, etcetera.
• 30:29
  There There are a number of tools that I've built that most
• 30:33
  of them are just one offs. Just trying to try, just trying
• 30:37
  to try something different and succeeding a lot of the times.
• 30:41
  But the intersection of of I guess we could call it altered
• 30:46
  states of consciousness, human altered states of consciousness
• 30:51
  technology and magic is a word you could use as technomancy or
• 30:57
  cybermancy. Or you could use techno
• 30:58
  shamanism or techno paganism. But anyway that you want to
• 31:02
  really describe it. There is a budding community of
• 31:06
  serious practitioners on the Internet today very, very truly
• 31:10
  of from all all walks of life that have come to their own
• 31:14
  realizations that you can integrate these tools together
• 31:18
  and have phenomenal results very quickly at that.
• 31:23
  I could go into any anything that you want to talk about.
• 31:26
  I I have specific subreddits that I've created based on the
• 31:31
  power of memes alone. I've very, I can give you any
• 31:36
  any proof in the pudding if you would like to see it.
• 31:39
  But it's this stuff is very real and it's under discussed and
• 31:44
  that's why I wanted to come on this.
• 31:46
  This program in particular is because I feel like just
• 31:50
  providing space and holding space to show that others are
• 31:53
  interested. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:55
  Could encourage others, really. Well man, it's it's like we're
• 31:59
  we're we're so inundated with artificial intelligence now.
• 32:03
  And I was, you know, and I see it from from so many different
• 32:07
  angles. Like there's a lot of, there's a
• 32:09
  lot of disdain held against AI, especially in like artistic
• 32:15
  communities or or or or the creative minds.
• 32:18
  You know, it's almost like I think some of them, some of it
• 32:20
  is, is this they're feeling like there's this like they're being
• 32:24
  robbed of their creative art, you know, by by, you know,
• 32:30
  putting words into a box and then having this AI spit out a
• 32:36
  an image or write a text or or or something.
• 32:40
  And it's like well look at all this time that I spent having to
• 32:42
  learn all this and now it's it's it's almost like there's there's
• 32:46
  nothing to show for it anymore because look how easy it is for
• 32:49
  people that really don't know anything about what I've done to
• 32:52
  just you know pops a a prompt in into a generator and then boom
• 32:59
  here it comes out and it looks looks phenomenal.
• 33:02
  Do you do you do you think that we're at a point now or or that
• 33:06
  there is a there is a an opportunity for like what what
• 33:12
  what do you see that that that that that shift you know or or
• 33:16
  are you seeing that shift with between people that disdain like
• 33:20
  there's disdain for it and they don't want to see it advance and
• 33:24
  they don't want to see it work versus the the communities that
• 33:27
  you've been a part of and and the things that you've done that
• 33:30
  have actually been able to find its benefit and use and things.
• 33:37
  That's an interesting and perhaps most important question.
• 33:41
  You're talking about a dichotomy that could be labeled as pro
• 33:47
  transhuman, anti transhuman that could be labeled as any number
• 33:50
  of sides of a fence. And I I think it's undecided.
• 33:57
  To be quite frank with you it's undecided because right now both
• 34:01
  factions are Co are gathering their armies they're gathering
• 34:05
  their arguments they're gathering armies and they're
• 34:07
  gathering what they're wanting to do like wage war against
• 34:12
  their opponents And that that I see those that are that are
• 34:16
  strictly dedicated to the use of AI for everything and those that
• 34:20
  are strictly not dedicated to you see the use of AI for
• 34:24
  anything eventually butt heads and I'm that's why I like that's
• 34:31
  one of the reasons why I enjoy paganism because it does have
• 34:34
  its roots in human history and it's it's not new really in any
• 34:39
  way Animism is the is the original religion the original
• 34:44
  faith as I understand it I could be mistaken but integrating
• 34:48
  technology and animism into a world view.
• 34:51
  I have found to be very peaceful and to be very like a synthesis
• 34:55
  of the two sides coming together.
• 34:58
  Is is a fusion that is so much stronger in my opinion it's it's
• 35:03
  a new form of it's probably not a new form of magic.
• 35:06
  I like to think it is, but it it really is kind of a new paradigm
• 35:10
  of magic, the digital technologies that we have
• 35:12
  access. To oh, I think so for sure.
• 35:14
  I mean, imagine if we could travel back in time 1000 years
• 35:18
  or even 100 years and and take the stuff that we have at our
• 35:23
  fingertips now and bring it back and show these people we'd be
• 35:26
  we'd be magicians, man. We'd be Wizards and sorcerers
• 35:29
  and mages and and stuff to these to these civilizations that
• 35:32
  didn't have another descriptive word for what we have now.
• 35:37
  I mean, they didn't know these things.
• 35:38
  They weren't. It wasn't it wasn't made yet.
• 35:42
  Interesting thing too is I I think like a a funny thing to
• 35:47
  observe is, is people that are staunchly against AI.
• 35:53
  It's like, man, there's been AI going on for longer than they've
• 36:00
  called it that. You know what I mean?
• 36:02
  Predictive text, I mean I think that's been around since before
• 36:06
  they coined the, you know coined the term AI, just all kinds of
• 36:14
  stuff that that falls under that category.
• 36:18
  It's just how it's become fleshed out.
• 36:21
  We're using the term fleshed out, but we're talking about
• 36:24
  technology. It's kind of funny.
• 36:28
  It's it's yeah, it's it's it's it's change.
• 36:33
  It's it's it's form is change or it's it's shifting a bit.
• 36:36
  It's it's not quite static at all really.
• 36:42
  And I wonder too with you know what's what's really interesting
• 36:46
  to me to hear about this is, is integrating things like this
• 36:49
  into animistic practices or or or shamanic practices.
• 36:54
  Things that are very almost entirely like nature based, you
• 36:58
  know, connecting to the ground, the you know getting your bare
• 37:01
  feet on the ground, you know recognizing and connecting with
• 37:06
  spirit that exists in everything.
• 37:08
  How how much do you see that as as as benefit as it could be?
• 37:12
  Do do you feel like there's a risk in pushing too far on the
• 37:17
  technomancy or the cybermancy side of things and having those
• 37:22
  modern advances over shadow, or take over the the purity almost
• 37:29
  or the OR the base benefits of these these these old ways?
• 37:36
  I I think there's a distinct threat if they if they were
• 37:40
  forgotten, if they were eliminated, if they were, if it
• 37:44
  was made the only option if technology was isolated away
• 37:47
  from the natural world completely.
• 37:49
  Of course we would be losing something very very very
• 37:52
  important. The way I look at I, I will say
• 37:57
  to to kind of balance my previous statement is that I
• 38:01
  view the world similar to Alan Watts in the way that we are
• 38:05
  nature and what comes from us is also natural.
• 38:08
  It's it's just an expression of compounds and and chemicals and
• 38:13
  all that. But I do feel that we we could
• 38:17
  lose everything if we if we don't heed the words of the
• 38:21
  Amazonian tribes that we are now responsible for the planet they
• 38:24
  can no longer do it themselves. We are now responsible as
• 38:28
  Western world, first world folk. We have taken that on and we
• 38:32
  have done so much damage to our planet that if we were to lose
• 38:35
  it. We have to blame, Yeah, right.
• 38:40
  Yeah, Yeah. Who do you have to?
• 38:41
  Who else do we have to blame except ourselves for that?
• 38:44
  So you you've you've entered into this approach in your
• 38:49
  Paganism and then I've have shared this with others from the
• 38:51
  sounds of it where this there's this integration of a healthy
• 38:57
  integration right that you you found this this beneficial blend
• 39:01
  of the two. So can you walk us through some
• 39:04
  examples of that? I know you mentioned before for
• 39:08
  right, like Divination and I think and and I'm I'm not going
• 39:12
  to say it exactly, but and you can correct me and kind of walk
• 39:15
  me through, but something about predictive text or or text into
• 39:19
  something for divinatory purposes like with tarot
• 39:22
  readings, I'm I'm, I'm losing a little bit of the details.
• 39:25
  But if you could can we come back to that specifically 'cause
• 39:28
  I'm kind of intrigued and interested on what you found
• 39:31
  with that. Sure, yes.
• 39:34
  I would say the I would say probably the most relatable
• 39:38
  example is the Tarot readings app I guess you could call it
• 39:42
  that. I've that I built for for a
• 39:44
  computer. It's not for a cell phone.
• 39:46
  It's for a just for a computer web interface.
• 39:50
  And you can set it to do one, or you can set it to do 500 million
• 39:54
  tarot reads in a second and it will do 500 million tarot reads
• 39:58
  in a second kind of thing. Maybe not specifically 1000
• 40:02
  milliseconds, but it will do 10s of millions of tarot reads very,
• 40:06
  very, very quickly. And then give you a summary of
• 40:10
  the average cards and their placement as an example of what
• 40:13
  you can do with this application.
• 40:15
  That's just one approach, and that's just doing an unusually
• 40:20
  number, an unusually high number of tarot readings.
• 40:23
  And then. Summarizing the whole of it.
• 40:25
  Or you could use a tool that I built for a a group of
• 40:31
  occultists in a forum which I can share a link to if you'd
• 40:35
  like me to the name I don't know if do you mind if I share the
• 40:39
  name of their community. You are muted.
• 40:47
  Sorry about that. I I didn't mute because I wanted
• 40:49
  to let you talk. Yeah, that's totally fine.
• 40:51
  Please. Anything that gets shared here
• 40:53
  for the listeners and viewers, as long as you have freedom to
• 40:57
  share and and can point to, you know, for people to check it
• 40:59
  out, then by all means please do.
• 41:01
  I believe the website is money Ritual dot online is the
• 41:06
  website, the Little Dinky website that I built just to try
• 41:09
  it out. They love it and it it seems to
• 41:12
  be working for them because they keep coming back according to
• 41:14
  the analytics. So it's but my my larger point
• 41:24
  when it comes to the tools that I've built are that I'm building
• 41:27
  the tools myself and that is a level of craftsmanship that I
• 41:31
  encourage anyone who wants to get a technomancy to take
• 41:36
  seriously. Because building the tools
• 41:38
  yourself is a whole other game. Instead of just using the tools
• 41:42
  which is part of the game itself.
• 41:44
  For any for any form of paganism, is is the tools.
• 41:47
  But I would say building the tools has been very interesting
• 41:50
  to me. That is really interesting, man.
• 41:53
  I I'm, I'm heathen right. So my, my my and which is a
• 41:58
  which is paganism. I mean it's you know, the
• 42:00
  heathens were pagans. They, you know, the the Germanic
• 42:05
  tribes they were polytheistic or henotheistic at at the very
• 42:10
  least. But what's interesting is, is as
• 42:12
  we're talking about this, I I recently came across the runes
• 42:15
  are a big thing for for heathens, right.
• 42:18
  Runic divination, use of the runes.
• 42:20
  But it's more than just the runes in the form of divination.
• 42:24
  There is this ongoing struggle for for folks that want to use
• 42:31
  the runes in a literary form, writing words, names, phrases,
• 42:38
  things of that nature, right? And the ongoing quote UN quote
• 42:41
  problem that that exists is that the the runic characters, the
• 42:48
  runic alphabets that are in existence now are were were for
• 42:53
  languages that are not modern English.
• 42:56
  So how do you write modern English in a runic system that
• 43:02
  those characters were not intended to be written in, You
• 43:05
  know what I mean? So what I found recently was
• 43:08
  somebody, and he's a pretty reputable contributor in in in
• 43:14
  the heathen space, he's he's he's written a book called the
• 43:18
  Eagle's Mead I think is the name of the book.
• 43:20
  But he has developed what I believe he's called as the
• 43:24
  American Booth arc. It is a he.
• 43:30
  He created the system himself with inspiration from like Elder
• 43:36
  Futhark and Anglo-Saxon Futhork runes.
• 43:41
  But it is entirely intended to have people that want to put
• 43:48
  their children's names or write a phrase or something in
• 43:51
  American English without having to figure out, well, which elder
• 43:56
  food Art Room do I use? Which Anglo-Saxon room do I use
• 43:58
  right. Oh now I can go to this American
• 44:03
  food art system and I've got something that'll work.
• 44:08
  There's it's it's very new Like I I literally just came across
• 44:11
  it the other day and already like I I saw some thing somebody
• 44:16
  mentioned was like I don't know how to feel about this this is
• 44:18
  this is a this is a huge I think the words that they use was this
• 44:20
  is a a a huge dedication to their UPG.
• 44:27
  I don't know if you know the term that I'm using UPG the
• 44:30
  unverified personal gnosis you know and but what does what does
• 44:39
  you know we talk about things like animism right.
• 44:42
  You say your your view was that it's like the the the earliest
• 44:46
  first form of you know spirituality or religion maybe I
• 44:50
  forget the words you use but is that it was like that was the
• 44:52
  basis of it every it was it was animism.
• 44:55
  You know, there was this connection between our spirit
• 44:58
  and the spirit around and the land and and everything.
• 45:03
  And then over time, we have these constructed, organized
• 45:07
  versions of spirituality and and what does this higher deity get
• 45:13
  named, right? We got to put a name to them.
• 45:16
  Was it a masculine deity? Was it a feminine power?
• 45:19
  Right. And we, we, we, we put these,
• 45:20
  you know, humans, I mean, put names to these things over the
• 45:25
  centuries and over the millennia.
• 45:27
  And So what I've come back to several times over my life is,
• 45:31
  is religion started as UPG for somebody and they just convinced
• 45:37
  enough people to kind of go along with it.
• 45:38
  And then it became a thing, right?
• 45:41
  And next thing you know, everybody's doing it.
• 45:45
  Interesting thing to think about.
• 45:48
  Profound. And maybe that speaks to the
• 45:51
  power of memes itself. If if you want to call DPGA meme
• 45:54
  or a message a meme, I can I if you mind if I kind of hear the
• 46:01
  conversation a little bit all. Right.
• 46:04
  Go for it, Yeah. I started a subreddit called
• 46:08
  Cyber Delanot. If you find if you go to Reddit,
• 46:11
  it still exists. It doesn't.
• 46:12
  It's not under my control anymore, but it is definitely
• 46:15
  still there. And it was all done through the
• 46:17
  power of memes. It was all done through the use
• 46:20
  of the image or the the the wisp, the whiff of technomancy.
• 46:29
  Just trying to under, just trying to show you that it was
• 46:31
  possible to do this kind of stuff, to put human intention
• 46:34
  and human will into a goal on the Internet and to make it come
• 46:39
  about. And I had some very I had some
• 46:44
  very important experiences with that subreddit in particular.
• 46:50
  Yeah, I I was cursed. I was hacked.
• 46:54
  I was sent to Mexico. I almost didn't have enough
• 46:58
  money to come back. It was I I pissed some people
• 47:01
  off and I made some enemies. But it was quite an experience
• 47:08
  using the power of memes. Yeah, dude, that's intense, man,
• 47:11
  'cause like, you know, I know you're not the first person
• 47:14
  probably to have heard this, and I'm not the one that coined
• 47:16
  this, but I've seen, you know, and I think, you know, if you
• 47:19
  put text to an image, does that, does that constitute a meme?
• 47:23
  Does does text on an image, is that like a textbook definition
• 47:27
  of meme? I don't know.
• 47:29
  It could be because a lot of images that have text on them
• 47:32
  are classified as memes. But point being, there's this
• 47:36
  meme right? Or this this graphic that's gone
• 47:38
  around talking about the word spelling all right and and how
• 47:46
  when we anyway. So the meme like the what
• 47:55
  spelling is and then spelling is like what we talked about in in
• 48:01
  in magic right when casting a spell and the connotation with
• 48:05
  what our words can do. Our words have power.
• 48:10
  When you say things, when you even write things, when you
• 48:13
  maybe put words on a picture, that is an extension of the
• 48:18
  power of the written word, the spoken word and how we as doing
• 48:24
  such things are in a sense casting spells, you know, and it
• 48:31
  seems like there's this connection between that and and
• 48:35
  the the the whole mean thing that we're talking about, right.
• 48:37
  And just the kind of power that has.
• 48:39
  It's so influential now especially.
• 48:41
  I mean, people grab at everything or almost anything
• 48:46
  that they see on the Internet and and run with it, you know,
• 48:51
  without even trying to validate it or or come up with any
• 48:55
  reasoning behind it. They're like, well, I read it on
• 48:58
  the Internet, so it must be true, you know?
• 49:01
  I do know what you mean. Yeah.
• 49:04
  Yeah. Me.
• 49:06
  Yeah. I guess my my experience with
• 49:08
  memes has been very positive and very powerful.
• 49:10
  I know there are some abuses of memes that you could you could
• 49:14
  say others engage in. From my I've.
• 49:16
  Been famous from memes, man. Like they, you know some some
• 49:21
  some potent town in the middle of nowhere.
• 49:23
  Next thing you know they get they get made a meme out of and
• 49:25
  now they're like they've gone viral.
• 49:28
  Sorry to interrupt you, but it's just a funny thing to think of
• 49:32
  there. But go ahead, sorry.
• 49:34
  No worries. I I think we're on the same page
• 49:36
  and we're headed to the same point right there, so.
• 49:40
  Yeah, I don't think I've ever been made.
• 49:42
  Have you ever been made a meme of?
• 49:44
  That's a fair question. I don't think so.
• 49:46
  Maybe. But I doubt it.
• 49:49
  Never know, right? Could be somewhere out there.
• 49:51
  Could could have been to Mexico. Never know, that meme could have
• 49:54
  taken you there and and and you're famous in in Guadalajara
• 49:58
  or Juarez or something. Could be, could be.
• 50:03
  But yeah man you know and one of the things too is like talking
• 50:07
  about like the I like the I like technomancy.
• 50:11
  I like cybermancy. I like putting names to these
• 50:14
  things because I've never heard those terms coined before.
• 50:18
  Maybe that's a you thing that now we're hearing for the first
• 50:21
  time. I'm not sure I haven't listened
• 50:24
  to like the one of the shows that you were on with Lehmann.
• 50:29
  I don't know if it got mentioned during that before but it's it's
• 50:32
  a it's a great I think idea to put a name to these things.
• 50:37
  Good friend of mine is he's he's part of our like heathen group
• 50:42
  here in in Tennessee. But he he came up with a system
• 50:46
  like 20 some years ago that just recently had a name put to it
• 50:50
  called Agromancy and it and it has to do with mandalic formulas
• 50:56
  like so like he has a whole written system.
• 50:59
  He has like an alphabet, numbers symbols, a deck, a card deck or
• 51:06
  different card decks. And so there's there's
• 51:08
  divinatory uses for it but he's got you know there's you know
• 51:14
  seasons and and calendar and and stuff a whole system built
• 51:19
  around this thing. But it's very agriculturally
• 51:21
  based. It's it's in like agro, you know
• 51:25
  so techno and agro, I'm talking about almost polar opposites of
• 51:28
  things but the the manipulation, the working of these things
• 51:33
  we're hearing in the the suffix, the ending of the of the word.
• 51:39
  And I was going somewhere with that.
• 51:43
  But yeah, the the, the use of technology for things alongside,
• 51:49
  you know, shamanic and animistic practices I mentioned earlier
• 51:53
  about the like the misuse or the abuse of such things.
• 51:57
  You know, people like only let me just download this app and
• 52:00
  let me, you know, randomly generate a, a rune reading for
• 52:04
  the day, you know, like that seems a bit haphazard.
• 52:08
  It seems a bit like I don't know like there's a disconnect with
• 52:14
  what the the the truth is behind it.
• 52:18
  Like I'll just let me let this thing do it for me without
• 52:22
  having put in the work to learn what these symbols or what these
• 52:28
  what these things actually are. I guess that's that's what kind
• 52:31
  of why I mentioned before like the the the danger or the trap
• 52:34
  of of letting the the the the the technology aspect or the the
• 52:40
  AI aspect of things kind of take over and and we lose that human
• 52:44
  element to it in a way I don't know.
• 52:49
  I can relate to that. I think there's some value to
• 52:51
  that kind of thinking for sure. I mean, if you're not going to,
• 52:54
  if you're not going to do the work, if you're not going to
• 52:56
  build the foundation of knowledge, you're not going to
• 52:58
  be able to use the tools anyways or understand the real outcomes
• 53:01
  that they're presenting. Yeah, because how, how, how good
• 53:04
  can the AI get, right? Well, the AI is is is as good as
• 53:08
  the information that it's fed, right?
• 53:12
  Absolutely. So without the human part, it's
• 53:18
  it it it runs into a dead end. You kind of hit a brick wall
• 53:22
  with it or does it eventually become self aware and it's
• 53:25
  Skynet and it's cyber time and it's you know, Terminator, you
• 53:30
  know, and they take over and next thing you know we're it's
• 53:33
  John Connor all over again. I'm being a bit facetious now.
• 53:36
  That's just the nature of the show.
• 53:38
  We we we go down those those funny rabbit holes.
• 53:42
  So what else we got? We got technology for like
• 53:44
  Divination. What other things have you seen
• 53:47
  its benefit in in in use cases for that you're excited about
• 53:52
  sharing with everybody? Prayer is another big one.
• 53:56
  Altered states of consciousness and prayer, just a very simple
• 53:59
  example, Binaural beats, those are very widely available and
• 54:04
  they are I think in my observations they are seen as
• 54:11
  effective. They seem to have an effect on a
• 54:13
  lot of people. So I'm I'm just kind of trying
• 54:17
  to put some authority to that statement that that that is
• 54:20
  possible to use digital technologies to alter your
• 54:23
  consciousness. There are there are new
• 54:26
  technologies that are coming out that use flashing lights and the
• 54:31
  symmetry between sound and visual, visual effects.
• 54:33
  That's very interesting playground I guess you could
• 54:37
  say. But if you really want to get
• 54:40
  down into the the depths of what you can do today, it is like
• 54:46
  binaural beats and the ability to alter your consciousness very
• 54:50
  simply and pray. And that's been very that's
• 54:53
  something I've I use every day. It's something that I use to
• 54:56
  great effect. I use particular videos on
• 55:00
  YouTube that have special attention put to correlating the
• 55:09
  video effects with the audio effects and and it makes so you
• 55:14
  know what I'm talking about. Maybe.
• 55:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think like so like one of the
• 55:18
  things that I think about when you're when you're saying like
• 55:20
  the binaural beats, like I mean in in shamanism the the drum is
• 55:25
  a pivotal instrument for carrying your spirit along a
• 55:30
  journey or aiding somebody else in their journey.
• 55:34
  You know, I use, I use the drum. Well, there's some of it that
• 55:39
  you can see that over here on the side it's a bit out of
• 55:42
  frame, but there's a big 38 inch goat skin drum over here in the
• 55:46
  back there's a 12 inch bison skin drum.
• 55:50
  You know and these are all tools and and implements that are and
• 55:54
  have been used in ceremony and in private ritual, in Group
• 55:59
  ritual. You know and every time I I just
• 56:06
  speaking recently I had a guy who my wife's known since high
• 56:11
  school they've they've been friends for for for many, many
• 56:13
  years. But me and him gotten kind of
• 56:16
  close. We're becoming friends and
• 56:18
  building a relationship together. him and I and he had
• 56:21
  never experienced what it was like to have a drum session just
• 56:29
  maybe listen to music in the background but but drum along
• 56:32
  with it or or have a rhythm or something and just drum along
• 56:35
  with with it. And it was like a few minutes
• 56:37
  long and he was like wow, that was that was profound.
• 56:42
  And he's, you know, he's not the type of person that at least
• 56:44
  from in my limited relationship with him is a is a is a overly
• 56:49
  religious or overly spiritual person.
• 56:51
  But the the, the rhythmic medicine that that the drum
• 56:55
  offers was was profound for him. Yeah.
• 57:00
  He felt something, you know he's like I've never felt anything
• 57:03
  like this before. And so in a similar way, yes,
• 57:07
  there's, you know modern technology can kind of replicate
• 57:11
  that through that binaural beat through those even auditory and
• 57:15
  and and visual combinations. You know, having those like
• 57:21
  kaleidoscope type things or those those, it makes me think
• 57:25
  of the you're you're a developer, right?
• 57:29
  And you so remember the old windows, like when you open up
• 57:33
  the Windows Media Player back in the day and the songs that would
• 57:36
  play, they had those like vibrating like lights.
• 57:39
  You know what I'm talking about? I know exactly what you're
• 57:41
  talking about. They tried to.
• 57:43
  They would make an effect to like a peek in the music or
• 57:46
  something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 57:49
  you know, so, yeah, but like now here we are, you know, all these
• 57:52
  years later and they've, they've really like aced that one.
• 57:55
  But you know, people get into it pretty heavily.
• 57:58
  But yeah, I know exactly. At least I think that's what
• 58:00
  we're talking about. I hope I'm on the same page with
• 58:02
  you here. Totally.
• 58:05
  I could have. I got left field on that one.
• 58:07
  But yeah, I think we're on the same page and.
• 58:10
  And it's it's it's like taking that kind of technology and
• 58:14
  frankly putting it on steroids in the future, not not literally
• 58:18
  steroids, but making it much more powerful and much more
• 58:23
  effective. And that that is that has been
• 58:26
  kind of one of my personal pet projects that I've kept alive in
• 58:30
  the back of my mind for a long time that I've wanted to start.
• 58:33
  I haven't. I don't have the skills yet to
• 58:35
  make AI on my own. I can use an API through an AI
• 58:39
  platform and build something that way, that's no problem.
• 58:43
  But to build an AI from scratch on my own is still out of my
• 58:46
  skill set. But when I when I am further
• 58:49
  down my developer journey, building something like that is
• 58:55
  one of my motivations, because it's been so powerful in my life
• 58:58
  that that kind of technology, that kind of media, more
• 59:01
  importantly, it's handmade. It's handmade or it is manually
• 59:06
  made by dragging and dropping, of course, with a video editor.
• 59:09
  But it is still regardless. It has still been so profound in
• 59:14
  my life. It's you can find a playlist of
• 59:17
  it on my YouTube channel, the my favorite edits.
• 59:20
  Those are the videos, the specific videos that I find to
• 59:22
  be most effective and altering my state of consciousness and
• 59:26
  helping me enter a state of gnosis that I use on a regular
• 59:30
  basis for both programming, thinking, processing emotions,
• 59:36
  all sorts of things. And I think there's maybe
• 59:39
  there's a certain kind of disposition that goes really
• 59:42
  well with this. I've with this kind of match
• 59:45
  work, with this kind of energy work.
• 59:46
  And I think I might agree if someone was to say that that
• 59:50
  that's the case, I'm not certain, but really it's it.
• 59:56
  It's about using the tools that work for you.
• 59:57
  Is what it's about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
• 1:00:00
  When you say disposition, meaning, you know what works for
• 1:00:03
  one may not work for the other. Work for everybody.
• 1:00:06
  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:08
  Now what what's also interesting is, is is you know we we talked
• 1:00:13
  about a lot of different things already so far and one of them
• 1:00:15
  being you know plant medicine and and and utilizing the
• 1:00:20
  various tools that are available to whatever degree to to help us
• 1:00:25
  reach you know a stage or a point in our spirituality to be
• 1:00:31
  able to be more in tune with stuff like this.
• 1:00:33
  I feel like at some point when when when you when you approach
• 1:00:37
  it with a degree of piety, with a degree of sacredness like
• 1:00:40
  realizing what these things are are sacred, you know, and
• 1:00:44
  approaching it with piety like that, that it's not like oh, I
• 1:00:49
  need to go and experience that thing to gain the effects of it.
• 1:00:54
  Case in point, I've had, you know, moments where whether it
• 1:00:59
  was through sleep or just through, you know, quiet
• 1:01:03
  contemplation or meditation where you know the sound in
• 1:01:06
  itself or the rhythm of something in itself was enough
• 1:01:10
  to kind of carry me to a place of an altered state of
• 1:01:14
  consciousness. That pre like that that plant
• 1:01:17
  medicine had done for me before, maybe not to the same degree or
• 1:01:20
  at the same level, but there was a touch of that and it was
• 1:01:25
  really inspiring for me to to to realize like man, it's there all
• 1:01:31
  around us what your sensitivity is.
• 1:01:35
  Again your disposition to these types of things.
• 1:01:37
  I mean it's there. It's just how, how receptive are
• 1:01:41
  we to this, how what have we done to allow ourselves to be
• 1:01:44
  connected in that sort of way. You know, I do know it takes
• 1:01:50
  work, but. If you want to, if you want to
• 1:01:53
  have rely, yes, it does. It takes work for honest
• 1:01:56
  results. It takes work for the the
• 1:01:58
  sincere soul to mature oneself if that's your path, or to help
• 1:02:02
  a community if that's, if you're a shaman, etcetera.
• 1:02:06
  It definitely takes work. It it takes some tension too,
• 1:02:09
  and it takes humility. Maybe is another word to use in
• 1:02:13
  addition to piety, humility, and gratitude.
• 1:02:16
  That is, maybe this does this all of all, in my opinion, if
• 1:02:20
  you are grateful for what you are experiencing regardless.
• 1:02:23
  Essentially you will find a way to better circumstances or you
• 1:02:28
  will enjoy what you have in front of you.
• 1:02:29
  But gratitude, humility, piety, those kinds of words are the
• 1:02:37
  secret ingredients to, I think, to real, real growth and real
• 1:02:41
  personal paganism. I I guess is the word I could
• 1:02:46
  use personal spiritual experiences that are substantial
• 1:02:50
  and that change you as a person or that improve you that
• 1:02:53
  operating system upgrade that we talked about earlier. 100%.
• 1:02:59
  Yeah. I'm curious.
• 1:03:01
  I I again, I love, I love these types of conversations because
• 1:03:05
  it it touches a nerve for me. It it kind of it hit, it hits
• 1:03:09
  home for me in a lot of different ways, 'cause even
• 1:03:10
  though I don't know you very well, there's there's a degree
• 1:03:16
  of of commonality with some things.
• 1:03:21
  Would you be comfortable with sharing like like the most
• 1:03:26
  profound experience you had outside of what somebody might
• 1:03:33
  consider a awakening? Right.
• 1:03:39
  Because we could always probably find ourselves reflecting on the
• 1:03:42
  time or the place in our life where we did a thing, consume
• 1:03:47
  something, experience something, right.
• 1:03:49
  And that was like the moment where it was right?
• 1:03:51
  We we, we, we. That was our time of awakening,
• 1:03:55
  right? And but anytime after that, that
• 1:03:58
  really stands out to you. That was like really influential
• 1:04:06
  or really pivotal for you and your growth as as a person, as a
• 1:04:09
  Pagan. Anything that stands out in your
• 1:04:12
  mind that you'd like to share with people you can go as you
• 1:04:15
  know granular or or not. It's just a question I thought
• 1:04:18
  would be interesting to to dive into.
• 1:04:21
  I'm happy to share. I've had a number of very
• 1:04:24
  serious encounters with Spirit and with healing over the last
• 1:04:30
  five years. The first one was a was
• 1:04:33
  something aligned to a poltergeist.
• 1:04:36
  I was dancing in my my garage and the door on the to the
• 1:04:45
  outside of the door. The door to the outside world
• 1:04:48
  wanted to get its hinges ripped open.
• 1:04:50
  It felt like there there was something trying to obliterate
• 1:04:54
  and spread the material that made the door 1000 feet in every
• 1:04:58
  direction and I couldn't find. There were no motion lights
• 1:05:04
  turned on that were right above the door, and there was no
• 1:05:07
  indication that it was anything like wind.
• 1:05:10
  So there was there was that, but probably even more substantially
• 1:05:15
  was my battle with alcohol was was very serious and very it
• 1:05:22
  was. It looked like it was going to
• 1:05:23
  be the the way I was going to end my life in the long run was
• 1:05:28
  with alcoholism. But I was.
• 1:05:30
  I was one night I was lying in bed.
• 1:05:32
  I was crying. I was, I was sick and tired of
• 1:05:36
  battling alcohol and in a in a in a moment of knowing my cat
• 1:05:42
  comes up and this is this is when I realized that shamanism
• 1:05:46
  and animism and the spirit within everything is very real.
• 1:05:49
  My cat comes and perches on my chest when I'm laying in bed and
• 1:05:53
  I could feel something in my brain click and I the next day
• 1:05:56
  and still to this day no longer have a problem with alcohol.
• 1:06:00
  I I was given a gift from my my cat from spirit, I think from
• 1:06:04
  from some sort of friendship that we have that my cat and I
• 1:06:09
  have. I was given a cure from
• 1:06:11
  alcoholism 'cause I was I was pretty sick of it.
• 1:06:14
  I was pretty done with it. And those that that the second
• 1:06:18
  experience in particular, the first one is sort of just like a
• 1:06:21
  party trick that you can talk to anyone about.
• 1:06:23
  But the second experience, very personal, very, very real and I
• 1:06:28
  could feel, I could feel in my awareness the desire to drink
• 1:06:34
  just kind of go away. It's still there.
• 1:06:37
  I enjoy alcohol, but I don't drink alcohol.
• 1:06:40
  I don't drink because it's it's no longer a priority of mine
• 1:06:44
  after that night in particular and.
• 1:06:46
  I don't like that. After a lot of suffering?
• 1:06:50
  Yes, after. Very.
• 1:06:53
  After some very intense suffering and a a true desire to
• 1:06:56
  stop, a true desire to be clean but needing help to get sober
• 1:07:02
  from alcohol, my my cat for some reason knew exactly what to do
• 1:07:06
  and I will never be the same. It was it was that moment that I
• 1:07:11
  kind of realized there is something very true to what what
• 1:07:16
  I'm engaging in. This is very, very real and the
• 1:07:19
  the ability to grow I think ultimately boils down to a
• 1:07:24
  choice. I think not all the time, help
• 1:07:28
  is necessary and believe me when I say that I understand that
• 1:07:31
  help is necessary. I I take medication everyday for
• 1:07:35
  my for my own circumstances. But truly choosing to heal the
• 1:07:43
  universe will, in some major ways, open those opportunities
• 1:07:46
  for you to walk through on your own.
• 1:07:50
  I'm I'm saying a mouthful and I don't mean to say anything that
• 1:07:53
  is untrue or offensive to anyone, but those are my
• 1:07:56
  experiences and. Hey, man.
• 1:07:59
  Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I think that'll resonate
• 1:08:03
  with a lot of folks. It does with me and I was
• 1:08:05
  talking with a a guy on one of the last couple of episodes
• 1:08:09
  here. We were talking about micro
• 1:08:11
  rezzle networks, right? Mycelium and understanding the
• 1:08:16
  like like I think I said it on that episode too.
• 1:08:19
  I'm like it's crazy that season 5 of this podcast has had in
• 1:08:24
  some form or fashion on almost every episode up to this point.
• 1:08:27
  I think this is like the 14th or maybe 15th, 14th, maybe 15th
• 1:08:30
  episode of the season where like this topic has either been a
• 1:08:39
  segment of this of the episode or the main part of the episode.
• 1:08:44
  But to the degree that understanding what this what
• 1:08:47
  this network does. Right.
• 1:08:49
  When a tree in the forest is cut down it's sending signals that
• 1:08:56
  there's a wound and and and everything that's that's the
• 1:09:01
  microresol network that the mycelium network that is that is
• 1:09:04
  a vast like microscopic you can't see what the naked eye
• 1:09:08
  network of communication is sending healing to this damaged
• 1:09:13
  tree. Because one of our neighbors,
• 1:09:15
  one of our people is hurt, is suffering.
• 1:09:17
  The tree's been cut down. Right.
• 1:09:18
  So that there are these healing signals that being sent to try
• 1:09:21
  to regrow and and and heal. And when I hear your story about
• 1:09:26
  this this point where you reached with alcoholism and your
• 1:09:31
  cat was aware of something and sat on your chest was was
• 1:09:38
  connected with you in a very physical way in a very primal
• 1:09:42
  way to send the healing that was needed to this damaged part.
• 1:09:50
  It was there was there was healing that was needed there
• 1:09:53
  was a damage that was there right.
• 1:09:54
  And and how we are connected with spirit in in in the ways
• 1:09:59
  like I mean my wife sometimes like you know we have dogs we
• 1:10:02
  have three dogs and and there are times when her or I or one
• 1:10:05
  of us or both of us sometimes are going through some things
• 1:10:07
  and one of the dogs or both of the dogs or three of the dogs
• 1:10:10
  even will approach us you know and be close to us and want to
• 1:10:15
  give comfort that whole cuddling thing.
• 1:10:19
  There's healing in that there is there's there's folklore around
• 1:10:24
  that too. I I saw something recently where
• 1:10:27
  like the the the the story was you know I forget where exactly
• 1:10:32
  the the the folklore comes from but but you know it was it was
• 1:10:37
  around this. You know if if if the animal was
• 1:10:41
  sick, then the only way to cure the sickness of the animal was
• 1:10:45
  to embrace it and that's a loose like translation or recollection
• 1:10:53
  of it. But the spirit behind it was
• 1:10:54
  that there was this hug that was sort of needed right.
• 1:10:59
  There was this connection physical connection between the
• 1:11:02
  two to allow that healing to take place.
• 1:11:05
  And I hear your story and I think of the micro Rizal Network
• 1:11:08
  mycelium and how when one part of the the system is damaged
• 1:11:13
  then things come and and and and finds a a a way to to get there
• 1:11:19
  to try and heal it. Repair this damage.
• 1:11:23
  Man if that doesn't, if that doesn't resonate, I don't know
• 1:11:28
  what. Well man, that's that's wild.
• 1:11:32
  Think about that. You know and it's a cat right?
• 1:11:36
  Totally different species, totally different creature, yet
• 1:11:39
  connected with you realized, hey, this person, this, this, he
• 1:11:46
  needs help. Let me give what help I can.
• 1:11:50
  You know, you still had to do the work, you still had to go
• 1:11:53
  through the suffering, you still had to go through the the whole
• 1:11:56
  ordeal of it. But you had help, you know?
• 1:12:00
  Absolutely. Yeah dude, that's amazing.
• 1:12:04
  Thank you for sharing that. Absolutely it's it's real.
• 1:12:08
  It's. And that's the message that I'd
• 1:12:10
  like to get across, is that this stuff is very real.
• 1:12:14
  At least another, another subjective storyteller is saying
• 1:12:19
  it is real. There are plenty of us saying
• 1:12:21
  that it is real. Science may disagree, but that's
• 1:12:24
  OK. I think science, absolutely
• 1:12:27
  that's the thing, isn't it? It just give it time and it will
• 1:12:30
  catch up. It will catch up.
• 1:12:32
  And that's The funny thing. I don't know.
• 1:12:34
  Paganism and stuff is, you know, at least with some of what I get
• 1:12:38
  exposed to in Heathenry and it's and it's it's probably again
• 1:12:42
  because of the focus that I have in my spirituality and being not
• 1:12:48
  like 100% hardcore reconstructionist with things,
• 1:12:51
  but having a kind of a soft spot towards Reconstructionism.
• 1:12:56
  You know, going back to the historical sides of things and
• 1:12:59
  finding, well, how did the ancient peoples do it and trying
• 1:13:03
  to reconstruct it in modern times.
• 1:13:05
  And here we are talking about technomancy, cybermancy, these,
• 1:13:08
  these things of finding ways of practicing these old religions,
• 1:13:15
  these old ways in modern times and leveraging and and utilizing
• 1:13:20
  the modern advancement of our nature to adapt to, to find
• 1:13:26
  solutions to things. You know, there's a reason why
• 1:13:30
  we are how we are now as a species, as as as as as as
• 1:13:33
  humanity. We've done the things we've
• 1:13:37
  we've put in that that work and inherited a lot of information
• 1:13:45
  from past generations. You know the reason why AI
• 1:13:48
  didn't exist 100 years ago? Well, we weren't there yet as a
• 1:13:50
  species. We hadn't.
• 1:13:51
  We were working towards it, right.
• 1:13:53
  We were inventing things like the car, right?
• 1:13:55
  Or whatever, you know, the airplane, things like that,
• 1:13:58
  right. Well, it was a, it was a for the
• 1:14:00
  time, it was an advancement. And now here we are, you know,
• 1:14:02
  talking about all these things, about artificial intelligence
• 1:14:06
  and you know, leveraging it for things.
• 1:14:12
  It's it is, it's, I feel like it's a it's a delicate dance
• 1:14:17
  that we engage in with stuff like this.
• 1:14:20
  You know, being connected to these old ways.
• 1:14:23
  Being connected to these roots and not trying to become like
• 1:14:33
  like not not not trying to grow roots out of the sky just
• 1:14:36
  because we can. You know what I mean?
• 1:14:39
  Oh, I can do it. Should you.
• 1:14:40
  It makes me think of it makes me think of the the meme.
• 1:14:45
  Right. Or the OR the the.
• 1:14:46
  It was the Jurassic Park where you know your your scientist,
• 1:14:50
  you know took all this time thinking of whether they could
• 1:14:55
  do this and then and stopped and failed to think whether they
• 1:14:59
  should. You know what I'm talking about
• 1:15:01
  that scene from Jurassic Park where he's like Jeff Goldblum.
• 1:15:07
  Daddy Goldblum, Yeah. So man, so prayer, that's an
• 1:15:15
  interesting one. I guess when you say prayer
• 1:15:18
  earlier we're talking about AI and and and all that.
• 1:15:20
  You talking about prayer in the sense of like giving a an
• 1:15:27
  oration or having AI help with the oration or or that is that
• 1:15:33
  what you meant or do you want to?
• 1:15:36
  No, it's OK. I was I.
• 1:15:38
  Was trying to figure out what you meant by that but I when I
• 1:15:40
  hear prayer it's it's it's it's it's you know or rating things
• 1:15:43
  to the to the deities so. For me, it's always been very
• 1:15:47
  silent and personal. I I do it always in private, and
• 1:15:51
  it's really about when it comes to AI, it's about finding the
• 1:15:56
  message that I want to deliver ahead of time and kind of
• 1:16:00
  getting an assistant an assistance with contextualizing
• 1:16:04
  what I want to do. Brainstorming, that's a big
• 1:16:06
  thing with AI for me and in my prayer coming.
• 1:16:10
  But when it comes to the actual delivery of the prayer or the
• 1:16:13
  experience of the prayer, it's always private and solo for me,
• 1:16:17
  because I find that's the most in my world, the most sincere
• 1:16:23
  and the most effective is personal, private prayer.
• 1:16:29
  Definitely, yeah. It should be.
• 1:16:30
  It should be something that comes from the heart.
• 1:16:35
  I I agree with that. You know, a lot of people want
• 1:16:39
  to get told what to do or how to do it right.
• 1:16:42
  Maybe that comes from previous religious experiences where they
• 1:16:50
  go to a building, they go to a place, they sit in front of a
• 1:16:53
  man or a woman and they get told what to believe and how to
• 1:16:55
  believe it. So when they discover a bit more
• 1:16:59
  of a free thinking path, they they they think, well, I still
• 1:17:05
  need to have somebody tell me how, when, where, why, right.
• 1:17:08
  All these things. And a lot of it comes back to,
• 1:17:11
  well, what do you feel? And it's it's interesting
• 1:17:16
  because I feel like the why, why does the question exist?
• 1:17:20
  Why do why do people ask these things?
• 1:17:22
  Because they don't know how to think.
• 1:17:24
  They don't know how to feel. You know, they haven't had
• 1:17:28
  experience. They haven't.
• 1:17:28
  They haven't reached that point of knowing they can do it
• 1:17:31
  themselves. It's it's in them.
• 1:17:33
  It's already there, you know. Absolutely, that's that.
• 1:17:39
  That missing knowledge that you're talking about is very
• 1:17:42
  important and perhaps more prevalent than we want to think
• 1:17:47
  to not knowing how to think, or not knowing how to feel, or not
• 1:17:49
  knowing how to decide, even for oneself, I I struggled with that
• 1:17:55
  for a long time during my awakening, my earliest phases of
• 1:17:58
  awakening. How to even have a social
• 1:18:04
  conversation. I was very isolated growing up,
• 1:18:07
  and it was a very different kind of childhood than most I would,
• 1:18:11
  I would think you could say. So for me it was having to
• 1:18:15
  figure things out one thing at a time.
• 1:18:17
  And part of that is, is figuring out how to how to have a good
• 1:18:20
  time, how to pray, how to think, how to have an internal
• 1:18:23
  monologue. That was a that was a personal
• 1:18:25
  development of mine that came about through a lot of hard
• 1:18:28
  work. So I think what you're talking
• 1:18:31
  about is very important. Yeah.
• 1:18:34
  Well I'm glad to hear that. You know first of all you know
• 1:18:38
  I'm, I'm, I'm connected with you right now to be able to talk
• 1:18:40
  about your take on it that that that you're going in a
• 1:18:47
  direction, you know and finding use through AI and and other
• 1:18:53
  technologies and you know being able to leverage it in a way
• 1:18:56
  that seems beneficial not just to you but to others that you've
• 1:18:58
  connected with. So that's a fascinating thing
• 1:19:01
  for me to learn about that there's there's this opportunity
• 1:19:04
  out here. Is there a way for people that
• 1:19:09
  are hearing this or watching this now if this if it strikes a
• 1:19:13
  chord for them and they want to kind of tap into that if they're
• 1:19:17
  feeling like, man, I was thinking this this whole time.
• 1:19:19
  I didn't realize there was a community, or I didn't realize
• 1:19:22
  that there were people out here that thought like this.
• 1:19:24
  Is there any way for them to connect with you or or or find a
• 1:19:28
  place to explore this themselves some more?
• 1:19:31
  Or what would you suggest if if not?
• 1:19:33
  But yeah, feel free to expound on that if you will.
• 1:19:37
  For sure there is a resource I I will do a very quick Google
• 1:19:42
  search technomancy book. Just give me one second here 1
• 1:19:46
  Technomancy book Online. The person who made it is, I
• 1:19:50
  think, the forerunner of all of this.
• 1:19:53
  Whatever is this? Technomancer's Technomancer's
• 1:19:56
  handbook? If you Google technomancy
• 1:19:59
  handbook, you will find a free, pretty definitive guide or
• 1:20:05
  technomancy101.com. That's it right there.
• 1:20:08
  technomancy101.com. That is the resource that
• 1:20:11
  convinced me to create the Cyber Dela, not subreddit.
• 1:20:14
  That if someone was going to put this much effort into
• 1:20:16
  technomancy, I would take it seriously too.
• 1:20:19
  So if you want to learn more about technomancy from from a
• 1:20:24
  resource that I have no invested interest in whatsoever, type
• 1:20:27
  Technomancy 101 into Google and check it out for yourself and
• 1:20:33
  figure it out if that's something that you want to
• 1:20:34
  participate in. Now if you want to contact me,
• 1:20:37
  you can just find me on LinkedIn or YouTube.
• 1:20:39
  Those are the easiest ways to to communicate with me.
• 1:20:42
  But to to to really dive into technomancy, just read a simple
• 1:20:48
  overview, which is the resource that I think started modern.
• 1:20:52
  Tech to Magic is Tech to Magic. Been around since the 90s,
• 1:20:56
  Really cast magic in the 90s and 80s when the Internet started,
• 1:21:00
  but. Yeah, that's crazy, man.
• 1:21:02
  I had no idea that. I mean, I heard the first term.
• 1:21:06
  The first I've heard the term was literally today.
• 1:21:10
  Probably others too, but maybe it's just it was a thing and I
• 1:21:14
  didn't know that there was a name to it.
• 1:21:16
  So live and learn. But that's crazy.
• 1:21:18
  It's been around for that long. Yeah, sure.
• 1:21:21
  Wow. Absolutely.
• 1:21:22
  You can find a reference to a techno Pagan on Buffy the
• 1:21:25
  Vampire Slayer from like 1995 or something like that.
• 1:21:30
  I hear techno this and techno that you know and and there was,
• 1:21:33
  going back to the meme thing, remember Techno Viking?
• 1:21:36
  I do remember techno. Viking dude just dancing all the
• 1:21:39
  new industry, Just kind of doing his thing.
• 1:21:43
  Yeah, for sure. All menacingly, you know, and
• 1:21:44
  whatever. Yeah, like living at a rave.
• 1:21:50
  Some pretty intense dancing. Yeah, yeah, dude, this has been
• 1:21:56
  super fun. I've learned a lot and I hope
• 1:21:59
  everybody else has to. I think that this has been one
• 1:22:01
  of the most exciting conversations I've had on on
• 1:22:06
  this podcast. You know I I'm glad you reached
• 1:22:09
  out. Anything else that you want to
• 1:22:13
  share with the people before we sign off and when we do sign off
• 1:22:16
  don't go anywhere because I'll touch base with you briefly
• 1:22:19
  offline as I do with all of my guests.
• 1:22:22
  But I think we've we've really covered a good, I mean we we
• 1:22:27
  we've covered a lot of good bases I think tonight.
• 1:22:30
  Today, well yeah tonight for for me, this afternoon for you.
• 1:22:33
  But yeah. Anything else you want to share
• 1:22:36
  with the folks or parting words or anything like that?
• 1:22:40
  Sure, it's that if you are interested in technology and
• 1:22:44
  magic that there is a growing community of people out there
• 1:22:49
  and just use a search engine. I I don't mean to belittle any
• 1:22:53
  efforts that you've made already, but use a search engine
• 1:22:55
  to find technomancy group or technomancy resource and you'll
• 1:22:59
  find information and that will lead you wherever you want to
• 1:23:02
  go. Right.
• 1:23:06
  Don't be afraid to explore a bit.
• 1:23:08
  That's. That's one of the, I think
• 1:23:10
  that's one of the things too is, is is going back to like people
• 1:23:15
  asking, you know, how should I do this?
• 1:23:17
  Why, you know, where should I go?
• 1:23:20
  Well, go wherever you want to go, I guess, like explore things
• 1:23:26
  yourself, learn for yourself. There's going to be things that
• 1:23:29
  you find that are going to fit for you.
• 1:23:31
  There's going to be things that you find that aren't going to
• 1:23:32
  fit for you. And that's part of the
• 1:23:35
  experience, right? That's part of the learning.
• 1:23:37
  That's part of the discovery. It's get into it all if you
• 1:23:43
  want, just don't be afraid. Absolutely.
• 1:23:47
  Be curious. Be curious.
• 1:23:50
  Yes. Yeah.
• 1:23:51
  Well, Brett, this has been a lot of fun.
• 1:23:52
  Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:23:56
  And for everybody that's watching, listening, right.
• 1:23:58
  There's going to be links to to to to Brett's LinkedIn and
• 1:24:02
  YouTube channel in the video description of this podcast for
• 1:24:05
  all you Patreon viewers and in the show notes for everybody
• 1:24:08
  else on the audio platforms. So do be sure to like I
• 1:24:12
  mentioned earlier in the episode, check out down there
• 1:24:16
  for ways that you can support not just myself but but Brett
• 1:24:19
  here, right. He may not have a a platform per
• 1:24:22
  SE, but he does put himself out here and has a passion.
• 1:24:25
  So you might be able to connect and learn some things together
• 1:24:30
  which is great. So thank you Brett for for for
• 1:24:34
  being my guest on this week's episode.
• 1:24:36
  It's been an honor and I I had a really good time talking with
• 1:24:40
  you. Thank you, Jesse.
• 1:24:42
  It's been a a great time. I felt like we had a pretty
• 1:24:45
  sincere dialogue, a pretty raw dialogue about some things that
• 1:24:48
  matter, at least in our opinions.
• 1:24:50
  They matter. So I appreciate that.
• 1:24:52
  It's been fun. Yeah, yeah, it's been a lot of
• 1:24:54
  fun. All right, everybody.
• 1:24:56
  Well, this has been another exciting episode of the Random
• 1:24:59
  Heathen Ramblings podcast. If you did like it, upvote it.
• 1:25:03
  Share it. Do all the things that show your
• 1:25:05
  support in any way that you can. All of my information is linked
• 1:25:08
  down below or over here wherever you see it in your platform that
• 1:25:12
  you're catching this on. So check it all out, show your
• 1:25:14
  support in any way that you can. And thank you again, Brett, for
• 1:25:17
  being my guest this week. Until we all talk to each other
• 1:25:20
  again and the gods continue to notice you and may your
• 1:25:23
  ancestors smile upon you. See you in the next one.