Latest / Age Defiantly with Mark Young / [Ep 37] Are Doctors Treating Cancer Backwards? | Dr. Nathan Goodyear

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[Ep 37] Are Doctors Treating Cancer Backwards? | Dr. Nathan Goodyear · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

0:00
Welcome to Performance Driven Living, the podcast where we question everything.
0:05
We don't tip to around tough topics, we walk right into them, not to provoke, but to
0:11
get closer to what's real.
0:13
You might not agree with everything you hear, and that's okay.
0:17
The show isn't about being right, it's about being real.
0:20
These conversations are meant to stretch your thinking, challenge assumptions, and spark
0:25
something deeper.
0:26
The views shared are those of our guests and may not reflect those of the host or team.
0:32
And while we dive deep into health, performance, and transformation, this is not medical advice.
0:38
Talk to your doctor before making changes to your health or lifestyle.
0:42
Take what lands, leave what doesn't, but whatever you do, don't stop questioning.
0:56
We are here on Performance Driven Living, and I'm your host, Mark Young.
0:58
And I am joined today by someone who's going to kind of blow your mind here a little bit
1:02
with some of the way that he's thinking and rethinking, I'm going to say the treatment
1:06
of cancer.
1:07
We're here at the Metabolic Health Day Conference in Tucson, Arizona.
1:11
So a lot of the episodes that we're filming here are about cancer and treatment and metabolic
1:15
health.
1:16
So as these roll out, I hope that you're really getting something out of it.
1:19
So we are joined today, I'm going to read this to you.
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It actually says, today we're joined by Dr. Nathan Goodyear, medical director at Phil
1:27
in the Blankter for me.
1:28
Well, actually at Williams Cancer Institute, so yeah, partner with Jason Williams, who's
1:32
the founder of Williams Cancer Institute, we actually went to medical school together, actually
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set kind of right next to each other for two years.
1:40
And I was medical director at two other institutions in the Scottsdale and the Phoenix area for
1:45
about seven years.
1:46
And I stepped away from that because I recognize that we were doing amazing things.
1:51
Potos chemo, hyperthermia, IV mistletoe, but it wasn't doing enough for everybody.
1:59
And so I stepped away from that because I knew we needed to do more.
2:02
We needed to do more research.
2:04
We needed to be more innovative because cancer, cancer of today is not the cancer of yesterday.
2:09
Wow, that's interesting.
2:11
And so we were falling behind, everybody's falling behind from cancer.
2:16
And so I stepped away, not knowing what to do, and actually sought counsel from Nation,
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good friend.
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And she said, you need to think bigger.
2:27
You need to actually empower doctors.
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So leave it to Nation to help people think big.
2:35
And so, but you have to have a foot still connected with patients.
2:39
I believe if a doctor disconnects himself from patients to a degree, he loses connection
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with his base.
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I agree with you.
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And so for me, in the Williams Cancer Institute, we're innovating.
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We bring the future of cancer care, not the future today.
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You don't have to wait.
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You don't have to hold for it.
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But what I then always tell patients is we're already working on the future of the future.
3:04
So but it keeps me connected with patients, but it keeps me in that innovative space and
3:08
keeps me in that space where we're changing medicine.
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That's what I'm about.
3:13
Get the Williams Cancer Institute.
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We have an office of Beverly Hills in California.
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But then we do our innovative procedures, which I'm sure we'll talk about, at two hospitals
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one down in San Jose de Cavo and Mexico and Mexico City.
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Because the innovation is basically so far ahead of the regulation capacity.
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We just have to do that.
3:32
But we do have like a phase two FDA study, I mean FDA study here in the US looking at prostate
3:40
cancer, stage two, where metastatic castrate resistant prostate cancer, fails, everything's
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failed.
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53% one year remission.
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We just presented that updated data at ASCO, the American, the largest clinical gathering
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of clinical oncologists in the world, around 45,000 doctors in May of Chicago this year.
4:03
So showing that in an arena where conventional medicine has something to offer.
4:10
If you engage the immune system to actually target the tumor, then what happens is you
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actually, as one of the viewers there said, you found the holy grail of immunotherapy.
4:23
Yes.
4:24
And I want to unpack that.
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I want to finish your intro because you kind of like took over.
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I mean, no, no, I think it's great.
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But Williams Cancer Institute is where you're actually practicing now as the medical director.
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But I do want to make sure that your credentials get listed on here because I want to make sure
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that people understand the validity of what you're saying and some of that just comes from
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your pedigree here.
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Originally trained in his board, so to certified in OB-GYN, that was a pelvic full surgeon,
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that's correct.
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So it's primarily a surgeon.
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So a surgeon.
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So this is not a, the reason why I bring that up is because in this space, there's a lot
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of woo.
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And woo woo.
5:00
Yeah.
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We get the woo in the space and the people who are like, yeah, but, but, but, and so when
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I'm actually talking to someone and you're an MD, that's correct, so an MD homeopath.
5:11
So an MD, a MD who's also a homeopath and was a surgeon, so when, when I see people
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come from Western medicine and then move into more of a naturopathic space, I never
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see them go the other way.
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And it's very interesting.
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Like I never see anybody go from naturopathy into the medical world like because I see
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go the other way.
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I never see them go back and that there's data in that I'm sure somewhere as well.
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The fact that you actually hold the credentials as an MD and yet still practice homeopathy more
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than more than anything else since 2006, your career is focused on integrated message, pardon
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me, integrated medicine and oncology, frequent educator on approaches like high dose IV vitamin
5:54
C, hyperthermia, always pressing for strategies, patients can actually use also the author of
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breaking the cancer code and host the podcast practicing by Dr. Nathan Goodyear, obviously
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you around here, we value evidence aware actionable tools and that's exactly the lane that
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you're staying.
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So everything that you've explained so far in your introduction of you makes sense of that.
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But getting into that credentialing side of things, I love when I'm talking to somebody
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who's not, I don't want to use the word just a naturopath because if a person studied
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naturopathy or a person as a holistic practitioner by training, I would say that they're already
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biased towards the world of homeopathy.
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Yeah, we're all biased in a way, right?
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Well, I would say that being trained as an MD, you're not biased towards homeopathy, you're
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biased.
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Oh, definitely not.
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It would have been in the other direction and yet you've moved in this direction.
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So the course corrected, I'll say corrected, but you're course corrected but I don't think
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you're course corrected based on, you know, you met a person of influence.
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I think it's data driven, experience driven, you know, when you go through training, in
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medical school, we're taught a bunch of facts, a bunch of books.
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I can remember our microbiology course was a whole semester.
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The professor bought in a, basically a box.
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It was nothing, paper still, that was way back when my college education was in paper
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too.
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And I liked it much better.
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We're excellent first medical school class that they required a laptop, but we didn't
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use it for anything because there was nothing to use it for.
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But anyways, so we had all this to go through, but the application of it.
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So then when we get into residency or people go on the fellowship, we don't really follow
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these patients through the duration of the treatment.
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So we get just, just small points, small bits of windows of, is this therapy working?
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Is it not?
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And then when you get out into clinical practice, you actually go, these therapies actually
8:00
do help for some people and others they don't.
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So I had to very quickly decide, am I going to be a patient for some people, asking me
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a doctor for some patients?
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Or am I going to be a doctor for all patients?
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And so what I was given in conventional medicine is an answer for some patients, a help
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for some patients.
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And I told patients all the time, I said, look, if you walk outside and you break
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a hip, no amount of vitamin D is going to help you.
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You need surgery to repair that hip.
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It's just what it is.
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If you have metastasis to the brain and there's cerebral edema, you have to shrink that.
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It's life threatening.
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It must be done and must be done now.
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You don't want radiation, but if we do stereotactic and then we add another natural and integrative
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therapies, like Boswily to reduce that and stay away from the steroids, which by the
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way, Boswily has been shown to be equally effective as dexamethasone, then we can reduce
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the side effects augment and allow the patient to move on to the next day to actually then
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promote healing.
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So I had to decide, it might be a patient's for a few or all.
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And so in that, I started asking questions.
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Questions that conventional medicine didn't have the answer for.
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And so it forced me to answer or look for questions and look for answers outside of that
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conventional strategy.
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I had a good friend that was a compounding pharmacy that had already been corrupted
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me.
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Joe, if you're out there and you're watching this, you corrupted me, dude.
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You did.
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No, I love him.
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So we talk about repurposed medications all the time, but so he poured back into me.
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And then from that standpoint, I started reaching out.
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And it was through the course of these types of education, ongoing and learning.
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In fact, I've learned more, Mark, outside of my residency and outside of my medical training
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than I ever would have inside.
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And it's taught me.
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As it should be.
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Absolutely.
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It's taught me, medical school and residency taught us what to think, the conformity
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of thought, what I've done outside of that, not because of what I've done, but because
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of everybody that I've met, it's taught me to critically think.
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It's taught me how to think.
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And so in that process, I've learned to help all patients, not just some, but all.
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And that's being natural, holistic, integrative, conventional.
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We need all to bear when we're dealing with stage 4 cancer.
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I 100% agree with all of that.
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And I think that there's used a word in there that I want to highlight in a moment, but
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I believe that people are treating my sister.
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I just had a, had Christi Kesslerine, if you know Christi, just had her here on the podcast.
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And I actually introduced her to my sister who's got breast cancer right now.
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And she's in this struggle of like, I've got people in my own family.
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They're telling me that there is a metabolic approach to helping deal with this.
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And my doctor is telling me they've done surgery on her three times and now they're wanting
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radiation.
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And I'm like, like, I'm not telling you what they're saying is wrong.
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I'm telling you that the holistic approach to treating this is wrong.
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Because there is no one solution.
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This needs to be an integrative solution that does all of this.
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And it's like, and I finally got her to talk to Christi.
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And I was like, look, she's an oncologist who practices holistic treatment now.
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So she's not standing in my world.
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She's not standing in your doctor's world.
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She's got a foot in both worlds.
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That's correct.
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Would you listen to a person who maybe you can see as having a more holistic approach?
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Because as we're dealing with this and another friend of mine who's dealing also talked
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to Christi about it.
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It's like, should you choose, and I want to pivot into this immunotherapy conversation
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because he was recommended.
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He's got multiple myeloma and immunotherapies and immediate response.
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And it's like, okay, I'm great with immunosupport.
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I think that's fantastic.
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But what are we doing to support the body during immunotherapy?
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And it's like, but it's this very binary mindset that people have.
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It's this or this.
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And I'm always, and when I'm involved in a conversation, I'm always trying to pull those
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two things closer together and saying, we live in this binary world that it's yes or
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no and black and white.
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I'm like, no, guys, like this is this is not an and or it's an and it's a you can do this
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and this.
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And sometimes this is more appropriate than this and sometimes this is more appropriate.
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And I say like if I get I'm not a big fan of pharmacology as a first approach to something.
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But if I'm rushed to the ER and my leg is broken open, bring on the pain meds.
12:40
That's right.
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Are you using your having chest pain?
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You go in, they do an EKG.
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Guess what?
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That's exact.
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You're an automobile accident, you know, like I said, open fragment.
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It's exactly what we need them for.
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Correct.
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But what conventional medicine, and this is what I learned through experience, Mark,
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was that it doesn't teach us how to heal.
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It teaches us how to intervene, how to manage acute, you know, catastrophic situations and
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hats off for that.
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But you know the word physician, you know what?
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It's from a Hebrew word, roughly, it literally means healer.
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And so if we want to be true to our origin, we need to heal.
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And conventional medicine wasn't bringing that.
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And so I wanted to, as I said, be a doctor to all patients.
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And I wanted them to heal.
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And by the way, that's the best strategy for cancer prevention is help the body heal
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itself.
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There was that old, you know, great saying physician heal that itself.
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It should be rephrase physician teach patients to heal that self.
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And then from that standpoint, then we've done our job.
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And we've though actually negated the need for conventional pharmaceuticals.
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Right.
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I've got it.
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And then lies a problem.
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I got a phone call recently from the son of a friend of mine from college, who's now
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a farm D.
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And he's been practicing as a pharmacist for almost 10 years now.
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But he follows me on Instagram and stuff like that.
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So he sees a lot of the stuff that I'm talking about and he's, you know, watched podcasts
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and stuff like that.
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And he's like, can we talk?
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And he's like, because I'm so over this entire career.
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He's like, I've got a doctorate in pharmacology.
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And all I'm doing is passing out pills all day long, helping people eradicate symptoms
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and never actually solving anybody's health problem.
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And he's like, and I can't in good conscience do this.
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See, we're just, there's this process in conventional medicine that's protocol driven.
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And it's when the, it's within the business kind of structure and framework, because within
14:47
the protocol, you can really control what's done.
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And so from a business model, we're getting a little bit off target.
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But I think it's important and relevant here.
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You can control how things flow.
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You can control the traffic.
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You control the profits.
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You control the losses.
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And it creates a very manageable, very large system.
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It's repeatable.
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Exactly.
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And it helps them.
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Mm-hmm.
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But it doesn't help others.
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What we need is actually a precision personalized, you use functional medicine, integrative.
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The word integrative means restore, remake, make whole.
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If we're cutting body parts off, that's not doing any part to make whole the individual.
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Right.
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Now, we might need that to reduce tumor burden, but we'd rather not.
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If we can save breast, if we can save prostate, if we can save cutting organs out, that is
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a person that is going to fare better because that surgery compromises the immune system.
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That surgery actually can set the stage for local recurrence or metastasis.
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That surgery can actually advocate for what's called a concomitant tumor resistance where
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distant metastatic sites are actually dormant, now luring the compressive action of that
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dominant tumor and boom, they blossom.
16:07
So we have to understand that surgery can be an answer, but we need to work for it to
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never be the answer if we can.
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I was a surgeon, I was a surgeon, chemotherapy, it's born out of war.
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That's literally where it came from, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, jeep on the body.
16:22
That's right.
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It turns the body into the battlefield and guess what?
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The immune system front and center.
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So this talking about breast cancer, it's been shown to actually shrink primary breast
16:33
cancer tumors, yet damage the immune system and spread it.
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So the very tool that is used to destroy the tumor sets the stage for it to spread through
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damage to the immune system, and why is that important?
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90% of morbidity and mortality in cancer is when it spreads.
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So what are we doing?
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Not good.
16:52
So you work with immune, I mean, you said something to me prior to us, even turning out
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of cameras today, and that was that you're focusing on triggering the body's immune system,
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you know, that shouldn't seem like an epiphany for anybody, right?
17:05
Like that just makes sense, right?
17:06
Our bodies are built with a defense system in place that from the day we're born, even
17:11
before we're born, like that immune system is working to make sure that it's staving
17:15
off disease and it's fighting, intruding, you know, toxins and inflammation and everything
17:20
else, right?
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Like all of that is already in place and our immune systems are fighting.
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And yet what's interesting to me is that conventional medicine, as you call it, or Western
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medicine, modern medicine, whatever the word is, that everybody uses their own vocabulary
17:31
there.
17:32
That's correct.
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That's correct.
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That's correct.
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The, it seems to me, a metaphor that I used when I was talking with somebody recently
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was, I know you have cancer and they want to do chemotherapy, but if I found a mouse
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in my kitchen, I wouldn't poison all the food.
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Like, that just doesn't make sense to me.
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I need to create an environment where the mouse doesn't want to live.
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Yeah.
17:51
Like, that seems to be the first thing, but poisoning all the food, I'll kill the mouse
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and everyone else that lives in the house.
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Or you destroy the walls, right, and let more of my sin and what ends up happening in
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that scenario is I believe that so much of our modern conventional medicine is a seeking
18:10
destroy practice as opposed to letting the body do the seeking in the destroying.
18:16
Yeah.
18:17
It's really interesting.
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Steve Jobs, most would consider one of the top 10 innovators of the last century.
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He has a famous quote that says, we can only connect the dots to the future and that's
18:28
what we're talking about, right?
18:30
And that's what this conference is about.
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It's about bringing people together that are, as Nation said, siloed in different compartments,
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but bringing new ideas and concepts to bring forth the next generation because of practitioners
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and medicine because we're at a precipice in medicine in our culture.
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We're at a precipice of either collapse or of recovery.
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And it's people that are coming here that are helping to decide that.
18:58
The best answer to cancer is never to get it.
19:01
Clearly, that's obvious.
19:03
But if cancer happens, the best answer to cancer is the immune system.
19:07
Now, why can't I say that?
19:09
It's the body's defense, right?
19:11
The body's defense, the immune system is designed to protect against all enemies, foreign
19:17
viruses back to your parents like, and domestic cancers, the domestic category.
19:22
Now, it's really interesting when you look back to history as Steve Jobs referred to Dr.
19:27
William Coleus Surgeon, treating people with sarcoma back at the late 20th century,
19:32
actually was frustrated with what he was seeing in surgery and the recurrence of sarcomas.
19:38
And so that was the late 19th century, so the late 1800s, into the early 20th century.
19:44
And so then they came on board with the Williams Coleus toxin, where they were activating the
19:49
immune system with these heat-killed bacteria.
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Then in the 20 to 50s, immunotherapy went into a dark mode, a very dark place.
19:56
And doctors were actually ostracized for talking about the immune system and immunotherapy
20:00
have any role in cancer whatsoever.
20:03
And it's interesting that at the same time, that's when chemotherapy came on board.
20:07
Then in the 70s and 80s, we started to make discoveries within the immune system looking
20:12
at immune cells.
20:14
And then here recently, obviously all the conventional immunotherapeutics, but here recently, just
20:20
a few days ago, the Nobel Prize in Medicine Physiology was four, three doctors, actually
20:27
their initial discovery in tea regulating cells, which are immune cells that help to protect
20:34
the immune system from attacking the immune system, because we don't need that.
20:38
That's called autoimmune disease.
20:39
I just say we just call autoimmune.
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This is the body saying, hey, me, friend, no, no, not foe.
20:45
But cancer doesn't create anything new.
20:47
And it does is it uses everything there and corrupts everything it can.
20:51
It's like a bad code, a bad virus.
20:53
But what it does is it actually uses these tea regulating cells to suppress other immune
20:59
cells.
21:00
Can I ask your opinion, totally off topic, I actually believe, but you bring up autoimmune.
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And that's an autoimmune to me as like a buzz word, because it drives me nuts.
21:08
Autoimmune drives me nuts in general, because in my opinion, I'd like to correct me if
21:13
I'm wrong.
21:14
autoimmune is really just undiagnosed source in origin.
21:17
We don't know what's triggering this, that the body is fighting against itself, but it's
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fighting against itself.
21:21
We just haven't figured out why, because I don't know anybody or any autoimmune diagnosis
21:28
that ends up with any kind of treatment.
21:31
Not a healing treatment.
21:33
Correct.
21:34
Correct.
21:35
Autoimmune is managed.
21:36
And to me, we manage symptoms.
21:38
We don't manage under root cause because we don't know what the root cause to that is.
21:42
And by the way, they could be different person by person, and it just happens to be expressing
21:46
the same.
21:47
Yeah.
21:48
So we're calling it the same thing when in fact, where it's expressing in the way of a symptom,
21:53
even though it's five different root causes, depending on the individual, right?
21:57
So I mean, I always look at that as a matter of an epigenetic expression, which could
22:00
be environmentally triggered, it could be dietary triggered, it could be, you know, genetic
22:05
stress related, whatever, parasympathetic, sympathetic nervous system dysregulation, like
22:10
so many different things can trigger autoimmune, right?
22:15
But autoimmune, to me, just tends to be this bucket that we put, you know, miscellaneous
22:21
diagnoses in, and then we just manage symptoms.
22:24
Well, I think the word autoimmune obviously is clearly showing the immune system is directed
22:29
against self auto totally.
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And so I think, you know, that phrase that diagnosis came from the diagnostic code push.
22:37
And so I think it's always stuck.
22:39
You're exactly correct in that it pertains nothing to treatment and nothing in conventional
22:44
treatment does anything to correct it.
22:46
But what it, what it's born out of is it's born out of a dysfunctional miscommunicable
22:51
immune system.
22:52
Now, why that is, you're exactly right, there's many root causes to why that is.
22:57
But when we look at it, it's like this, we have a chest board, okay?
23:01
We have all of our pieces, but what's important, it's not the immune cells, okay?
23:07
It's what the signals and the communications are to move those pieces, right?
23:12
So what's happening at autoimmune disease is those pieces are using to attack self.
23:18
And so the miscommunication, wherever that be, whether that be the gut microbiome, whether
23:22
that be viruses, okay?
23:24
Whether that be epigenetic expression, all of those are, yes, yes, yes.
23:27
It's epigenetics, genomics, transcosomist, you know, proteomics, et cetera, et cetera,
23:32
whatever omics.
23:34
But we have to recognize that that is there.
23:36
You have to manage that and then work to correct that in root causes.
23:40
And it's only at organizations like this, integrated medicine, natural holistic medicine,
23:43
that seek those root causes.
23:45
Yes.
23:46
Now, can we actually take somebody that has an elevated thyroid paradoxase antibody in
23:51
Hashimoto's thyroiditis?
23:52
Can we revert that to zero?
23:54
Okay.
23:55
Stealing the words before I say them.
23:56
So, you know, I think there's some evidence that we can, but the problem here, Mark,
24:03
is we are living in a transgenerational decline, where our parents were epigenetically more
24:14
healthy than we were.
24:16
There's were more healthy than they were.
24:18
And so we are seeing a transgenerational epigenetics transition into pathology.
24:24
And there is a recent update to what's called my maybe biome research.
24:28
I talk about a lot because coming from the OB world, even though I primary did surgery,
24:33
I'm always interested in how the immune system sets up.
24:36
Well, because pregnancy is actually, the mother's immune system is suppressed somewhat because
24:43
it needs to not attack the baby.
24:45
Correct.
24:46
Yet if the mother's births that child vaguely, the gut microbiome sets up differently than
24:51
if it is by C-section.
24:53
Correct.
24:54
Then breastfeeding or not breastfeeding.
24:57
And we know these are instrumental in the priming of the immune system, the triggering
25:01
of immune surveillance, where the immune system goes out there and provides those defenses.
25:06
So what they did is they said, we're going to do a seven-year study, we're going to recruit
25:08
three to seven month old, and we provided a two-year update.
25:12
They found 25% of these babies, at two years, a little infants, toddlers at that point,
25:20
had no befittled bacteria.
25:22
They had complete elimination of a taxa of bacteria.
25:27
Now why is that important?
25:29
A immune compromise.
25:31
We are programming disease.
25:35
On Saturday I'll speak, what I say is we are farming with a pH disease, and pharmaceutical
25:41
dependency, when we should be farming with an F, with all these farmers, health and
25:46
wellness.
25:47
Because we've moved away from that, that we've done nothing but code disease.
25:52
I once upon an undergrad accidentally took a class that I didn't intend to take, but
26:00
I needed 12 credit hours, and I was registering for a class late because I didn't get into
26:04
one I wanted long story anyways.
26:06
I met the registrar's office with 15 minutes left to register for classes, and I picked
26:10
an anthropology class because it wasn't full, and I might find out, I'll take an anthropology
26:14
class, I was a liberal arts major in undergrad anyways, I'll take this anthropology class.
26:18
As it turns out, I was already a week into the class because I was trying to waitlist
26:22
another class, didn't get in, ended up going to the bookstore to buy the book to rush
26:26
to the class to get there a week late, and I went into buy the book, and it turns out
26:30
they're like, well, are you sure that's the right class?
26:32
I'm like, it is, yes, yes, and we go through this whole deal, and as it turns out, the
26:38
class was cross listed as a women's studies class, which kind of hilarious, but the title
26:45
of the class was Narratives in Childbirth.
26:48
Interesting.
26:49
And so I'm the only man saying this class, which kind of became pretty funny because like
26:54
all these women just like, I was their little brother, and it's like, but I end up taking
26:58
this class, and it was like, probably one of my biggest takeaways from this entire course
27:03
is the medical professions desire to see section everybody nowadays.
27:08
Oh, yeah.
27:09
Now you're opening Pandora's Boxmark, everything's a damn C section, like, you know, and it's
27:14
not just a C section, it's typically Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night, somewhere between
27:18
4 and 6 p.m., seriously, and it's nowadays it's trendy for moms to schedule their C sections,
27:26
that it happens around their calendar, right?
27:29
It's no longer I'm going into labor, it's a, I'm giving birth to the baby at four o'clock
27:33
on Thursday, because we scheduled this.
27:36
There's definitely been a transition of convenience now if somebody said to C section, obviously
27:41
there's greater risk with what's called V back, virtual birth after C section, so that
27:45
has to be appropriately counseled out, and, you know, if the mother says, look, I don't
27:49
want to risk that risk, that risk of rupture, then I want to go with the C section, I understand
27:55
that, but you're exactly right, but the first and the second one are the questions, not
27:58
the third.
27:59
You're exactly right.
28:00
The first one's in question, because the first one is what opens that door to all those
28:04
future ones.
28:05
Correct.
28:06
Because once a C section, always a C section.
28:07
And that's where I jokingly, but there's a bit of truth in that.
28:12
Once that, as a resident, we knew that Thursday, Friday, Saturday, between four and six, that's
28:20
where a lot of the emergency C sections happened.
28:25
Well, and I was just actually just reading an article recently about the overuse of Potosin
28:32
and how Potosin is affecting, I mean, how could you not affect the child, right?
28:38
You're feeding this to the child, not just to the mom, but anyways, yeah, we're getting
28:44
off target.
28:45
But your point's well taken, convenience, and what we've done in industrial agriculture
28:52
and other areas, it's everywhere, everywhere.
28:55
It's doing nothing but coding disease, and we're shocked.
28:59
We're like, where, how are we getting 20, 30, 40-year-olds with breast cancer, pancreatic
29:04
cancer, colorectal cancer, what's going on?
29:08
We're creating environment, terrain, as nature uses it, that does nothing that allows
29:13
cancer to thrive, and it's accelerating transgeneratially.
29:19
So that's why I said, we're at the precipice of collapse versus an opportunity.
29:26
I want to ask you, I'm going to go a little rogue here and tell you, because we talk about
29:30
immune suppression and so on, and I want to, one of the things that I think, and again,
29:34
I could be naive in this, but COVID, to me, if I can find a silver lining in whatever
29:41
anybody's belief is on COVID, if I can find a silver lining in it, it would be that people
29:47
became more self-aware of their health, that people started paying attention to immune
29:51
support, people started paying attention to perhaps the insurance company or the doctor
29:56
or the government, doesn't have all of the answers all the time, and I need to start
30:02
asking this question, and what we've watched in my work here in the natural health and
30:08
wellness space and watching brands grow and watching the entire market expand beyond
30:12
there, and it's a lot of people have taken some hits for the team, but the last five years
30:18
have, there's almost been this awakening, so when you say it's a degradation or a rehabilitation
30:24
of transgenerational health, it makes me actually start to think, I actually think that
30:30
was a moment that in the distant future, perhaps, will be grateful for, because I believe it
30:37
is, it did become a bit, and there are some people who are still 100% blind to it, and that'll
30:43
always be the case. There will always be the case, but there is, there's seemingly an awakening
30:48
that's taken place with people going, okay, I have to pay attention to this, my health is my problem,
30:54
not anybody else's, and if the doctor gets it wrong, I'm the only one who dies, like,
30:59
maybe I shouldn't have that much faith in anyone person, like maybe there is something else,
31:04
maybe fruits and vegetables and meats are probably a good thing to eat rather than potato chips.
31:09
Do you see that as, has this world of integrative medicine, especially in cancer,
31:14
but immunosport, have you seen that same expansion happen from your vantage point?
31:20
Yes, I have, I mean, I'd say it's more in the patient population, definitely, the patients
31:26
are stereo, but I don't look at that as a bad thing, okay, because patients are the
31:30
force factor of change. We agree. Patients have more power than they realize, it's like voters,
31:37
you have all the power, you just don't know it, don't listen to the blowhards,
31:41
that would be politicians or doctors, here I am a doctor, but, you know, there's an opportunity
31:47
here, and so, and I think one is words, words mean a lot to me, and what they mean,
31:52
immunotherapy, people say, well, that's a conventional drug, when did a therapy that
31:57
augments or modifies immune system only be definable by that which conventional medicine
32:02
generates? Yeah, you know, hyperthermia, immunotherapy, fasting, immunotherapy, you know,
32:09
befittled bacterium, supplement, fecal transplant, augments, gut microbiome, augments,
32:15
immune system, immunotherapy, so anything that is affecting or modulating or modifying the
32:20
immune system is immunotherapy, that's not confined to a drug. Yes, a drug can be very specific,
32:25
yes, it can be helpful, but we can also add a junk therapy is in, talking about your friend
32:29
with multiple myeloma, okay, a repurposed medication, an old repurposed medication, thalidomide,
32:35
guess what, works great in multiple myeloma, bring that in. He's 78, so he's probably not having
32:41
children, so that should be the problem. No, he's not, but it's going to work great with the
32:43
immunotherapy. The point is you can use a medication there that is used off label integrated medicine,
32:49
it's being used precisely for a very specific indicated need, and it's going to augment that
32:55
conventional immunotherapy, in that way thalidomide is working as an augmentation of the immunotherapy,
33:01
it's an immunotherapy, it's an immunotherapy, so this, we have to step back and say immunotherapy
33:06
doesn't just apply to a drug, we can modulate that, modify that naturally, holistically,
33:13
and integratively. Recent research showed that 72 hours of water fasting, remodulated,
33:19
regenerate, reset the immune system, just ready to study that today, immunotherapy,
33:26
so we have to understand that everything we do in almost every way, whether good or bad is
33:31
affecting the immune system. Now, most people advocate that therapy, and when you look at the
33:35
root origin of the word, therapy means a positive impact, but I would tell you just because you have
33:41
a stimulatory impact to the immune system in the arena of cancer, where it's manipulating
33:47
everything around it, cancer can use those immune cells that are stimulated and activated,
33:53
and turn them on the immune system. You want to talk about the concept of auto-immunity,
33:58
here cancer is modulating the immune system against the immune system.
34:03
Yeah, causing itself to thrive, because nobody's fighting it now.
34:08
Absolutely. It's now using cells that are still functioning as normal,
34:14
but they're functioning in a trade-risk manner, but they're functioning as designed.
34:20
The cancer is just using them that way. So, this is where conventional strategies can be helpful
34:26
in conjunction with integrative strategies. That conjunction, you used the word earlier that I
34:32
think I love more than anything that a word that anybody's used here. Words matter to me as well.
34:36
Oh, yeah. And communicating, you understand that.
34:40
Oh, 100%. And the word augment is the word that just keeps coming up, because it's like,
34:46
this is not an us versus them conversation. This is not conventional versus holistic. This is
34:52
nothing of that. It's patient-centric, it's individual, and all of this augments the rest.
35:00
That is, the body was designed in such a way to heal. Yeah.
35:04
And in such anything we do should be augmenting the body's natural process and innate intelligence.
35:11
That's well said, Mark. And it tells me that you've been in this space for a while,
35:16
because when you've been in this space for a while, what you see is an us versus them mentality.
35:22
It's like two kids on a playground yelling insults at each other.
35:26
Right. And that's really what one side conventional versus one side natural,
35:31
in some ways has degraded itself too. Now, one of the things I'm going to talk about in
35:36
Saturday, and I think that's why I'm excited about being here. One of the unique things about
35:41
nation, why I think this is important for me, and this is why what we do with the Williams
35:45
Cancer, it's too so important, is building bridges. Because there's no one answer to cancer.
35:53
The magic bullet theory don't fly in causation or treatment to use bad English.
36:00
But what we have to understand is it takes everything, augmentation, stacking, bringing these
36:08
therapies together. Because we can't keep working on a sequential treatment one, treatment two,
36:14
treatment three. As if cancer goes, I never saw chemotherapy coming after surgery. Boy,
36:20
you got me one. So it's working on a quantum physics kind of level. Yes. And you know,
36:25
there's great, there's great work that's being done in that learning. That's right. And
36:29
hand-to-hand and colleagues in 2000, 2011, 2022 have started to describe in very intricate details
36:35
these hallmarks of cancer, where we can now say in a very precise way, we have replicative
36:41
immortality. We need to target it this way. We have immune evasion. We need to target it this way.
36:46
So go, well, why are we using Mabindazal, a repurposed medication? Why are we using that in conjunction
36:52
with the immunotherapy? Well, because it's helping to increase macrophage type two to
36:56
macrophage top one, which is going to create an anti-tumor immune environment versus a pro-tumor
37:00
immune environment. We're no longer throwing things on the wall and hoping they're stick. We're
37:06
giving the right treatment for the right patient, the right combination at the right time,
37:09
precise medicine in of one. And Nathan, here's the theory. I've never met a patient who didn't
37:15
want individualized care. Like every patient wants to believe, I mean, it's that I'm different from
37:21
everybody else. You know, N equals one, snowflakes syndrome would, whatever you want to call it,
37:25
like we're all different physiologically. We're all different epigenetically. We're all different
37:30
environmentally. And we create our own microbiome on a regular basis with what we're intaking,
37:36
what we're surrounding ourselves with. But in all of that, we are N equals one. And literally,
37:44
nobody wants to reject N equals one thinking. And yet people line up for a healthcare system
37:50
that provides standard of care that literally says we're providing care for the average person,
37:55
which is the, it's antithetical to N equals one mentality. So what people get seems to me,
38:02
the opposite of what they actually want. And I think that there's almost a forced helplessness
38:08
that society has put on people that this is, this is where you are. And we accept bad. So like,
38:14
I would never accept service from a restaurant the way that I accept it from a doctor's office.
38:18
If I, if I stood at the hostess stand for an hour and no one came to even talk to me because
38:22
the servers were all busy, I would leave and go to another restaurant. But at a doctor's office,
38:28
they seem to think that's normal. And it is normal. It is normal. And patients are treated so poorly.
38:33
And I refused to accept it. In fact, I remember a recent visit to a doctor's office. They left me
38:38
sitting for 45 minutes. And when I walked up to the window, I politely just asked for the address
38:43
to the accounts payable department so that I could send my invoice for the time of mine that they
38:47
wasted. That says down because my time's valuable too. And the question is, who are we serving there?
38:54
See, 100% were serving the patient. Exactly. And that's exactly the question advocacy
39:00
confusion that the patient will bend to what the system requires rather than the system bending
39:05
to the patient demand. But your voice, this platform, nation's voice, nation's platform,
39:11
and all these people here, my voice, my platform, these are going to
39:16
empower more patients. You know, if I help 30 patients with cancer heal, that's awesome.
39:23
It's truly awesome. But what if I teach 30 doctors to heal 30 patients?
39:29
100%. Your voice is very articulate. Your platform is obviously spot on.
39:35
Nation's the same way. Well, what if your voice turns to 30? What if nation's voice turns to 30?
39:41
Now what happens more going to hear? Yeah, they're going to hear truth. Right now patients don't
39:49
trust doctors. They don't trust hospital. A general American Medical Association online survey
39:53
published in 2024 showed that 40% of patients trust doctors in hospitals. I was shocked it was
39:59
that high. Honestly, I saw my they don't trust them. So we doctors have to rebuild that.
40:05
The way we do that is we speak truth to them. We speak truth in the confusion.
40:11
And the platforms of podcasting and social media. And I'm concerned about social media because
40:19
everybody talks about Dr. Google. They don't really talk about that anymore. But they talk about
40:24
Dr. Tiktok, Dr. Instagram, Dr. Facebook. There's some crazy stuff out there, but we need to speak truth
40:30
to that. I wish we had time to dig into that because I know you've got a hard stop. But
40:35
the I wish we had time to dig into that because I believe Dr. Google has gone away. Dr. Tiktok
40:40
has gone away. Dr. Chat GPT has taken over. Oh, that's it. Yeah, that's and in the integration of AI
40:47
into healthcare, I believe, you know, and equals one here. But I believe that that is the greatest
40:54
collaborator for healthcare that a patient could ask to have because I'm no longer requiring a
41:01
doctor to provide 100% of the insights. I can upload my own labs and find out insights. I can
41:07
I can use thought leaders like nation or like you and I can pull your published works into the
41:13
collaboration effort. And I can translate and figure out what's going on with this sort of stuff
41:20
using your thought process because you're published, your president, your public. I can pull that
41:25
thought leadership into conversations and now challenge a doctor with real thinking because I
41:31
don't have to, you know, be told what's going on. And if used properly by patients, I believe
41:38
it's the greatest weapon that a patient has in advocating for their own healthcare at this point.
41:43
I mean, I'll microp with that. It's an absolute tool, but I think we have to be careful.
41:49
I'm good person. Obviously, how it's programmed plays a big role. I don't get in arguments with
41:56
patients. I listen and we talk. I get in arguments with chat GPT and wrong because it's like, you're
42:03
wrong. Here's the evidence that supports it. And it's like, you're right. I'm sorry. It's like,
42:09
well, then why did you just post me an article that doesn't exist? I'm sorry. It's a digital
42:13
hallucination. Oh, what? Excuse me. So it's the point here where we're dealing with, I think,
42:19
a new innovation that's going to be exciting and it absolutely empowers patients. It's a point
42:26
of conversation that I think we can engage and I do engage patients on. But I think it's exciting,
42:31
but I think we do have to be cautious about some 100% cautious because I agree with you on the
42:36
hallucinations. I agree with you on the, we don't necessarily give it all of the information that
42:41
it needs to make its decisions because the patient doesn't know what to give. What I find most
42:45
empowering about it is that it empowers me to ask questions that I otherwise wouldn't have known
42:51
how to ask. And chat GPT provides enough context or or Claude or whichever A model we're talking
42:58
about. But it provides enough context that Dr. Google didn't. That's true. That's very true. Dr.
43:03
Google gave me an answer. This is providing context. And if we use it correctly and say things like
43:09
these are the labs, I'm going to my doctor on Thursday to discuss these labs. What are the
43:15
critical things you think I should be asking? That's a good point. And I think it does. Here's
43:20
why I like that. It empowers the patient. That's exactly the point. And so empowering the patient
43:26
is going to help them to be able to ask the right question and be their own best advocate.
43:30
Yes. And right now they don't know they can be an advocate. They don't know they can be empowered.
43:34
But I do believe that chat GPT or it's just whatever AI we're talking about could be that.
43:38
But I think I think importantly what it'll do is hopefully force the ability for some
43:46
communication to happen where a patient doesn't feel like they have no idea what the doctor's talking
43:52
about. But they now feel empowered and emboldened because they do know some of what they're talking
43:57
about to talk. And let's engage. Because when a doctor and a patient engage can engage
44:03
together when they communicate, when the doctor listens, the patient's going to benefit every
44:08
hundred percent every time. Because right now the doctor and patient relationship is harmed.
44:15
The question is is it salvageable? Is it? I think so. Can we restore that trust? I think we can.
44:21
I think we can. I think patients need to be more prepared for what they're doing and understanding
44:26
they are their own best advocate. And I think doctors right now are starting to feel the grind
44:32
of AI is taking away a lot of their diagnostic power and putting the power back in the hands
44:40
of the people in some weird ways. Patients have gone into ERs and say here's my printout,
44:45
here's my diagnosis, here's what I need all from AI. Which is not accurate. But at least
44:53
it's starting a conversation where it's forcing doctors to be I believe. I use the phrase that I
44:59
I try to be relationship forward, but AI fueled. Yeah. That's good. That's good. I want to be
45:05
fueled by AI because I believe it's the greatest educational tool I have at my disposal right now.
45:10
But I'm also human forward. We have to be humans. And I think too many physicians to that customer
45:16
service point we were making have become not human focused. And that not human focus has caused
45:21
to a real disconnect and a rift, which makes, you know, it isolates patients at least to that,
45:27
you know, enemy. But it leads to that that disenfranchised feeling by a patient that, you know,
45:34
I have to go deal with this as opposed to I have a collaborative healthcare practitioner that works
45:39
with me. Nathan, I'm going to just for the sake of time for you. Yeah. I cannot be more thankful for
45:44
the time that you've spent here. It's been such a delight getting to know you. Great conversation.
45:48
I'd love to follow up because I love your thought and how you navigate. Very complicated
45:55
and difficult topics. Well, I appreciate that. And I think we have to focus and we have to
46:01
hit these head on. And that's why I'm here because I think we are at that opportunity for real change.
46:07
One that brings patients right back into the focus. And one where we don't just heal the land,
46:15
we heal the patients. And if we do that, then so much what we talk about is just superfluous.
46:22
And I want to someday unpack the psychological impact of that.
46:25
A lot of physiological impact. Guys, thank you for joining us today on performance driven living
46:30
with Dr. Nathan Goodyear. My new favorite thought leader in the in the world of integrative health.
46:37
All of the notes on how to follow Dr. Goodyear. I'll actually be below in the show notes and I
46:40
encourage you. Go follow him on social media accounts. Go find his YouTube channel and all of the
46:47
other ways that you can connect with him. His social team would be thrilled to have you join.
46:51
I encourage that. And again, I can't thank you enough. This has been an incredibly
46:55
surprisingly amazing conversation to be honest with you. I could talk with you for hours.
46:59
And maybe another day we'll have that opportunity. But thank you for what you're doing.
47:03
And thank you for being here at Metabolic Health Day. I know your opinions will be valuable from
47:07
that stage and amplify in a way that that we all crave the opportunity to speak that kind of
47:13
truth into the life of patients everywhere. So again, thank you so much.
47:17
Well, thank you for your effort, your energy, your platform, and your voice because we need more of
47:21
it. And we just need to replicate you more often. And that's that's a way we're going to
47:26
exponentially increase that patient population that understands they are the ones in control.
47:31
Well, I have a line of people who would not want me to be replicated.
47:37
But we'll leave you there. Thank you for joining us on performance driven living.
47:40
We will see you on the next episode. And Dr. Goodyear, thank you so much for your time today.
47:43
Like us. Thank you. Thank you.
47:45
Appreciate it.