Latest / The Stronger Podcast / From Tokyo Classrooms to Oakland Streets: The Future of School – with Rich Harrison
Transcript
- (00:00:00) HOST: Mike Montoya: Welcome to the Stronger podcast. Each week we have honest conversation with education and social impact leaders about their leadership and career journeys. We talk about their origins, inflection points, and the work that they're doing today. The conversations are honest, human, and practical. If you're here for real stories, and real takeaways, you're in the right place. Let's jump in and let's get stronger together. Today I'm with **Rich Harrison**, the CEO of **Lighthouse Community Public Charter Schools** in East Oakland. Rich grew up in Japan, learned to teach in the Bronx, and now leads schools in Oakland, California. We talk about real choices for kids, both college and career, and for building pathways towards family sustaining jobs. I loved hearing about Rich's early career mentorship from seasoned old educators and how that influences his leadership style. Today, let's jump in. Before we dive into today's conversation. I want to give a quick shout out to podcastmatter.com. Their mission is to help impact driven voices get the visibility they deserve. If you want to share your message with the world, check out their website in the show notes. So, yeah, Rich, it's wonderful to see you. And after after all of this, um, I'll record the intro. So, don't worry about like this big intro. We're just going to kind of jump in. And it's wonderful to spend time with you. I appreciate it on a personal level, but also as a as a person that's been working in the space for a long time, it's like really great to spend time with leaders that are like actually doing the work, right? Because that's that's kind of where all the rubber meets the road. But I I've been people start with **origin story** to some extent, right? Like a little bit about like where you came from, how you got into this and and just kind of give me your your your your kind of story there. That'd be great. (00:01:21) GUEST: Rich Harrison: That's a great question. You know, so you know, I'm the CEO of **Lighthouse Community Public Schools** here in Oakland. And there is kind of a Bay Area connection to my origin story. in the early 70s. My dad was a student at UC Berkeley and my mom was an exchange student in Japan. And so that's how they met and that's how I came about. Moved to, you know, my dad moved to Japan and I was born there. And so English is my second language. I started my schooling in Japanese schools. And it was not until it was when I was 13 that I moved back to the States. I moved to Portland, Oregon, where I did high school, went to college in Chicago. I thought every cool person had to move to New York to do New York things. And so that's where I launched my teaching career in New York City. And you know, I've had a great kind of journey as a teacher and as a school leader and now overseeing a small charter district. And just really grateful for kind of that arc and grateful that I'm back in the area where my parents met back in the early '7s. when you know the culture, the climate politically was totally different and and just grateful to serve kids in East Oaken. (00:02:40) HOST: Mike Montoya: Well, I mean that's a it's like a it's like a round story, right? It goes it go starts starts overseas, comes back to to a place, right, that is home, right? And you and you end up in a a location where like, hey, maybe it's as exciting as New York. Was New York exciting? Like, was it was it all worth all the hype? (00:03:00) GUEST: Rich Harrison: I would say so. Right. So, I graduated from college in 98 and so So, you know, moved to New York in the late 90s and taught there from the late 90s 90s to the early 2000s. And I think like three things I'll kind of take away. One is there's just nothing like being a young professional or a first-time professional in New York. It's a beautiful city. And just, you know, hopping on subways and seeing different communities and exploring all the like the enclaves and restaurants was great. I'm big into music and late 90s early 2000s New York hiphop was glorious and (00:03:45) HOST: Mike Montoya: a thing right street music for real right so (00:03:49) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah it was such a beautiful era of music and then you know most importantly I think like you know it's kind of the intersection of personal and professional you know I move had moved out there with my girlfriend at the time who was who I'm still with my wife and she made it, you know, we we also started our teaching careers there and you know when I think to my **first teaching placement**. And I share this because it was, you know, this this is where I cut my teeth. Evander Child's High School in the Bronx. So, it's the kind of the community north of Form Road. This high school had 5,500 kids. And back then, it had like 3,500 freshmen and maybe a graduating class of a couple of couple hundred. And so, (00:04:41) GUEST: Rich Harrison: I was one of like 60 65 English teachers in this incredibly beautiful limestone 5,000 kid building. And you know, that first year of teaching, I had some like OG Bronx teachers that have that taught there for 10, 15, 30 years. And and that took me under my wing and taught me how to teach. And so just really grateful for that opportunity because it was definitely a challenging context to teach in, but I had the mentorship that allowed me to experience success out the gate. (00:05:13) HOST: Mike Montoya: So you had I mean that's like that's like kind of being thrown in the deep end, right? You choose to go back to New York and this like enormous like comprehensive high school, right? It sounds like what it is, right? It's like and that's like a standard of the day, right? There was before we started to do all these other small schools and all this magic stuff that's going on now, right? So that's a good place to like learn and practice. You say cut your teeth. Was your wife also teaching in the same context or what was that like or your Well, she was your girlfriend then, right? So pre-wife. (00:05:50) GUEST: Rich Harrison: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we lived in Brooklyn in the Flatbush neighborhood. and uh I took the train end to end to go to the Bronx to work. She found a a really beautiful school community PS 315 which is right by Brooklyn College actually and that's where she taught. But yeah, that's where we both you know just fell in love with the work around public education and you know when I reflect back both my wife and I had these like really incredible mentors that just you know showed us the ropes and you know Just really grateful for that because you know teaching especially in urban environments is pretty hard and you know it does take successful mentorship to you know kind of create the next batch of young teachers that are passionate and committed and have like you know folks to look up to and ask for help from and so you know definitely appreciated that time. (00:06:50) HOST: Mike Montoya: So you you you had these hopefully you had a really great I don't know what your elementary school experience was like. I mean it sounds like you were maybe in Japan then still. Is that true? So if you contrast what you were doing in New York versus what you experienced in Japan was like was it wildly different? I mean I have no context for Japan. So (00:07:22) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah. So you know I started out going to like a Japanese like TK kindergarten type program and I did not know how to speak English very well and communication with my dad was was challenging here and there. So the family decided to make the investment for me to go to an international school. school. (00:07:54) GUEST: Rich Harrison: So for you know kind you know first grade to I think sixth grade was when I moved to the states from first to sixth grade we you know went to an international school and that's where I started to learn English and you know that school because it was an international school the kind of the curriculum and the experiences were kind of grounded in international balorate and so when we moved to Portland my dad was pretty kind of intentional in finding a an IB school in the Portland area that that I would be able to kind of continue that type of learning. And so, yeah, you know, I think like, you know, I'm just privileged to have gone to like an international school to start my kind of learning. And those schools are definitely different than the schools I currently manage and run or the typical elementary school in the urban area. But like I I think it's important, you know, often times, you know, we could have a very American exceptional view of education or public education and it's just really important for teachers and leaders in this work to kind of step back every once in a while and look at other examples across the country. You know, you know, and one area that this came up in discussion recently in a meeting here in Oakland is, you know, a lot of these high school a lot of high schools are trying to figure out **CTE, you know, career tech pathways** and, (00:09:12) GUEST: Rich Harrison: you know, quite honestly like there are countries who do it better than we do like how their programs work and you know, I think there's just opportunities, you know, instead of us trying to kind of reinvent the wheel, just think about just learn from, you know, international examples. We rarely do that, but you know, I think my experience just growing up kind of just just has kind of instilled just a curiosity of learning more about what constructs look like in other places. (00:09:47) HOST: Mike Montoya: Yeah, I feel like that's like a good place to kind of be in this space right now, right? The CTE thing feels like it's new again, but it's not new again, right? We've had this discussion two or three times in my career, right, in the in the policy space and I mean do you feel like it's like a recycling of ideas in some ways without any new ones or is it actually going to feel different this time? (00:10:14) GUEST: Rich Harrison: You know I am trying to approach it differently this time. You know I kind of came up in leadership in the charter space where you know we were all doing the best we could. We were you know chasing proficiency and high SAT scores or ACT scores and we were trying to get our kids into year colleges and universities and you know for a moment in my career there was this you know they call it like competition or co-opetition was something that was like kind of a word that was kicked around like you know a lot of these charter organizations were you know going after kind of a data point or a big change (00:10:55) GUEST: Rich Harrison: and I think it was grounded in theory it played itself out in practice but something I think that was ing is this proximity. You know, if I think back to some of the organizations that I've had, you know, just a great opportunity of working in, at the end of the day, the data bears out that 30 to 50% of the kids complete their degree programs from even some of the top charter organizations. And you know, if we almost pushed a student to go to a 4-year institution, take on a little bit of debt, they do a couple years, a year or two, and then they stop out like we've actually put them in an economic disadvantage. And there's there's a there's a there's a level of economic injustice, if you will, if you're chasing a data point that's and you're kind of pushing to grow and scale. And you are scaling graduates, but you are also scaling kids who stop out and and I think what was missing is this notion of **proximity**. And so you definitely need to have the theories that are ground in your pra practice, but there has to be this approximate thing. And for us, it's like, you know, whether it's like success in college or career, you know, oftentimes we're not case managing tightly. How do we ensure that a kid gets a family sustaining job after they graduate or do they go into a trade program that allows them to translate into a family sustaining job? And you know, often times when I run into former and I from our schools here in Oakland and they tell me, "Oh, I got a job with the carpenters union and blah blah blah." And I asked them, "How'd you get that job?" And it's like, "Oh, it's my uncle or my cousin." And it was it's some sort of like informal connection that got them there. It was nothing (00:12:41) GUEST: Rich Harrison: designwise that case managed a group of students to get into that union union trade path, right? And so, you know, I think what we're trying to do is just thinking about if we want to do this work really well in East Oakland alone, how do we you know, create a level of proximate case management that allows for more success because, you know, the theories and the practices are only going to go so far. I think in in, you know, in the communities that we serve, there's just kind of a community connectedness that needs to be thoughtfully integrated into our work as educators. (00:13:21) HOST: Mike Montoya: Well, I and I can't agree with you more. I feel like there's like a a kind of almost like a misguided acceptance that like **college is for all** and like nobody in our space really likes to talk about this because people get afraid that we're like going to they call it track kids and there's this whole version of like we used to track kids and like choose for them where they would go you know in like seventh grade because of whether they got on the algebra track or not right that was kind of the pathway right and that's how it and then you were on the prep program or not right and those were the choices and like then we started to filter kids right by like how they showed up in sixth grade whether they were prepared for algebra and all the next pieces right so like I think that's been reduced some but at the same time we're like sort of saying like here's the pipe dream go to college you should go to Stanford, right, and get a, you know, $100,000 degree or $400,000 degree, right? And it's just like a thing now, right? We're having this conversation in 2025 and it's not the same as it was in 2000, right? So, (00:14:31) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah. And and I would say that like for, you know, we serve just under, you know, we serve a little over 1,600 kids, TK to 12 in our charter network here in East Oakland. You know, we're just under 20% special ed, like 13 14% of our kids are newcomers. You know, five 6% of our kids are unhoused. Mckin Vento qualifying the definition of homeless. And you know, we we we have to think deeply about you know what what do how do we create community schools model support for those students and families? You know, how do you make sure that your English language development arc is getting kids function and proficient in English while being able to be exposed to our CTE pathway courses and work-based opportunities that we work hard to find. And then and then I think there's this next part of like leveraging local assets like uh you know earlier this morning I came from a meeting with our the VPs of our community college system and how we could integrate just deeper and we have to partner we have to take local assets and and partner to ensure that that, you know, we're making the most out of our resources, creating the most opportunities on the dollars we can. And I think, you know, whether that's partnering with the nonprofits that's providing services or or community college system, we just have to think about what is that kind of ecosystem, but then within that, how do we do the case management and the kind of the job placement? You know, the reality is that for most of our graduates that go on to four-year institutions from from our community, they're going to either San Francisco State or Cal State East Bay. Yep. (00:15:16) GUEST: Rich Harrison: And they're going to live from home. They're commuters. So, they need a job while they're going to college full-time. And a lot of them work in service level jobs, which is what they have to do to put food on the table and make it work, but and support family with rent and whatever it is. But it would be great if they were not in a service level job, but they were in a job connected to their degree program or pathway that they want to take as a as a terms of career building. (00:16:47) HOST: Mike Montoya: Yeah. (00:16:48) GUEST: Rich Harrison: And So, we got a lot of work to do in that front. (00:16:55) HOST: Mike Montoya: Yeah. I mean, I think you're I mean, it's I mean, I I have to like, you know, show out shout out around like I feel like charter schools in particular are doing a better job of at least being open to the **partnerships** that are possible, right, within communities, right? I don't want to like, you know, bemoone like traditional schools, but I think like just because you're smaller and more a little more nimble, you're a little bit more open, right, to the idea of like cooperating with community based organizations that can bring some of those assets to the table. I feel like Oakland has so many components right that are possible and there's lots of people willing to help but sometimes the the schools like put up this barrier right and it's almost impossible to get through it right from a community organization standpoint but it sounds like you guys are working to at least cooperate I call it right so (00:17:51) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah education is super political in Oakland but I will tell you that the most inclusive space educationally in Oakland is this space where you know there's actually like a city parcel tax that funds college career education that funds both district and charter schools students and the community college pathways are deeply involved as well as well as like various industries and so you know I would say that like while you know naturally like in any urban urban environment like there's this tension between district and charter schools in the CTE workforce space it's actually super inclusive and I've probably spent just as much time learning from my charter peers as I have with my district peers so and I think that's critical if we're going to figure out how to ensure that you know, the four or five thousand kids that graduate from Oakland high schools regardless of whether they go to district or charter have the choice of career or college. And if they choose either, like we are lining up some more intentional dominoes down the road to take on, you know, the jobs that this area requires. You know, I've thought a little bit about like, you know, Oakland, like many other cities, suffers from, you know, gentrification challenges. And gentrification only happens when when your K12 systems (00:19:15) GUEST: Rich Harrison: functions really well producing the the labor needs and you get gentrification when you know especially in the tech sector right here in the Bay Area like we have to bring in tech workers from other places and it displaces communities and so you know this is where like you know I'm excited for this effort for district and charter schools to come together around this because we have to improve our schools And ideally, I would love for our students to take on the family sustaining work that this region's going to employ over the next 10, 20 years. (00:19:55) HOST: Mike Montoya: Well, I appreciate that. I mean, it sounds like there's a space in Oakland where people are working to cooperate around this issue, right? And and I mean, that's a place to start for sure, right? At least that exists, right? And then there's people are participating, right? And it sounds like there's some resources from the tax, right, behind it, right? So, like those are kind of the policy pieces that are necessary, right? Sometimes you like schools want it, but there's no pathway, right? for any resources because schools already have a lot of pressure, right? So to speak, right? There's lots of things already drawing on your resources and having additional resources to support kids because kids are my view has always been like kids are not just going to school, right? They're also living, right? And and participating in life outside of their school all the time, right? And so like the community is actually responsible for helping each other, right? And I think that's my my view has always been like that. So (00:20:53) GUEST: Rich Harrison: good. It's a good one. (00:20:54) HOST: Mike Montoya: That's all part of the job. (00:20:56) GUEST: Rich Harrison: Part of the job, you know, expanding kind of just the skill set, but also, you know, in some ways I came up through like a charter leadership era 20 years ago where there was kind of this like individualistic like hero principal syndrome, right? Like (00:21:13) HOST: Mike Montoya: Superman (00:21:14) GUEST: Rich Harrison: do the work today. It needs to be collaborative, collective with school partners, with community partners, with you know other kind of government agencies. And so, you know, it's been fun for me to experience a shift from, you know, kind of trying to, you know, be that, you know, kind of prototypical leader that charters expected back then to now. What does **leadership look like in a more community collective-driven space**? (00:21:49) HOST: Mike Montoya: I'm going to pause the conversation here for just a second to talk about books that matter. Every entrepreneur or leader needs a book that elevates their business, builds their credibility, and makes an impact. If you've got more money, Money than time, a ghostwriter can help you build your story. If you've got more time than money, a great book coach can guide you step-bystep through the writing process. If you have already written a draft, these folks can save a lot of trouble and money by shephering you through the publishing process. Head to books that matter.org and get the custom support you need on your book idea or manuscript. Well, and so did you have to like learn a new set of call it skills, so to speak, to shift the gears? I And where did you start to pick up the need for that? (00:22:56) GUEST: Rich Harrison: When I moved here. Yeah. You know, it's it's you know, it's interesting that you kind of bring this up because, you know, it is it is something that I've thought really deeply about. And, you know, I think there's, you know, **Oakland is known for its like progressive politics**. You know, it it, you know, in various times, you know, I think there's been There's been times in our history where Oakland and the Bay Area has become kind of this countercultural kind of source of energy and you know when I moved here you know I I kind of grew up in that charter school kind of paradigm where there was definitely some like what I would consider like we were gonna scale there's these kind of like you know your your seauite is made up of folks who went to business school and you know there's this kind of individualistic. We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get to these data points. We're going to win over funders and and and get results. And which is which is great, but quite honestly, like I don't know if that approach is going to work in Oakland. Oakland (00:24:08) GUEST: Rich Harrison: is is is very mindful around equity around, you know, I'm going to, you know, I'm in a charter renewal process right now. They're going to ask me about how I serve newcomer population or special ed population or Vento population before they're going to ask me about my literacy or or math proficiency rates. And that's just how Oakland is wired. And you know, I appreciate kind of that hard equity lens. And I also appreciate this expectation that that there's this implicit expectation of of our schools need to become community assets and and serve the community at work adjacent with the district. or with community organizations to partner around some of these big challenges we have. And so, you know, I think just very early on I knew that that was the kind of both the explicit and the implicit expectations of leadership. It's different from when I was leading in Texas or in Denver, you know, 15, 20 years ago. And so, it actually like forced me to kind of think about, okay, how do I do this? I've never done it before. Really looking at other leaders that do who do this work really well, how they can create investment from other community leaders or other elected officials and partner with schools to to create an initiative. It might go really well, it might not, but there's always this like reflective space on how do can we do things better to serve kids and families in our community. And so I just did my best to fit in and learn from other leaders and and it was definitely a different type of leadership that I had been and you know that I was accustomed to. And so just learning from what I would consider these community leaders and it it's kind of interesting because I had shared earlier about my like upbringing like teaching in the Bronx as a first second year teacher and having these mentor teachers that took me under their wing. (00:26:00) GUEST: Rich Harrison: You know me coming into Oakland as a kind of a seasoned charter school leader I found that I was learning a lot from some of the community leaders the CBO nonprofit leaders about how they lead their organization visav a community's need and I feel that they've taken me under their wing and figuring out ways that we can support each other with like really beautiful strong reciprocity because there's certain expertise or history or you know a lack of understanding that I have and I can depend on certain leaders to help me think through those or even partner with me to deliver services for kids and families. And so you know, I just really appreciated that opportunity and it's almost like kind of this cycle moment where, you know, just grateful for, you know, kind of the the leaders in Oakland that kind of took me under their wing and kind of showed me how it works. And that has also helped me navigate some of the political dynamic just being new to Oakland and, you know, that's kind of an important part because people do show up and advocate on either side of it, any issue. And so, if you're connected to community and you have a deeper understanding and you're curious and you are humble about that, I think I think I think there's just going to be more acceptance to you know some of the work that charter schools do to serve kids. (00:27:32) HOST: Mike Montoya: Well, it feels like you pium kind of came in like ears open and eyes open right and then started to I call it take in the atmosphere and and cooperate with people who have been there for a long time. I mean my my version of Oakland is that their community leaders have been doing it for 30 or 50 years right in the work and they they know all the where the bodies are buried but also where all the pathways are right basically what are all the opportunity right areas for cooperation and collaboration and but like if you can get lucky to spend time with them then you have a shot right at sort of I call it surviving the gauntlet right that can be also not just unique to Oakland right but like almost every community has you know resistance right to newcomers and I think Oakland has some portion of that too but like feels like you you attach yourselves to some folks that know how to get around that's great so (00:28:34) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah yeah (00:28:36) HOST: Mike Montoya: that's great that's awesome well thanks for that reflection I always like to hear about like when people make a leadership I call it like pivot right pivot's been a very powerful word the last five years right surviving the pandemic and how many times we jumped over ourselves right so like is there another is there another a **pivot point** that you if you think about like when you change change directions or change gears with either your career or like the way that you lead your teams now it sounds like you've had to adapt right to a new circumstance here but I'm curious if you have another example (00:29:10) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah I the The other, you know, the other example is it would I would call the I would kind of frame it as a the **back office example**. (00:29:19) HOST: Mike Montoya: Okay? (00:29:20) GUEST: Rich Harrison: You know, I think, you know, whether you're leading a district school, a charter school, or a nonprofit, the reality is is that, and we kind of saw this after kind of the influx of COVID relief dollars, like the money is now tight. You know, individual giving is less, foundation giving is less. You know, some of the state competitive grants, they're fewer of them. And you know, there's there's definitely some conversations around just the **financial challenges** that we're going to have. And you know, the the current administration's practices make it very hard for economic forecasting in a very (00:30:11) GUEST: Rich Harrison: nonpredictive level. And and you know, I'm a former English major, became an English teacher, principal. So, you know, I I've had to learn how to how to, you know, handle finances and HR, you know, in a in a much more thoughtful way given kind of the the space that many of us are in right now and will be in most likely in the next couple of years. And, you know, again, that's not a that's not a strength of mine and I didn't I didn't get this job because of that strength and I'm going to learn it on the fly. But I will say that like I think there's a couple of like big things, right? One is like, you know, if you run a a a district or charter school, like, you know, the livelihoods of our employees is is the most important thing for me, as well as the choice of our schools made by the families here in East Oakland. Like, I I I honor that. Honor both of those choices that our employees have made and our families have made. And so it it's almost like a huge responsibility like you cannot afford to you have to be able to offer competitive salaries regardless of what level of employee or what function you serve in our organization. Like uh you know we did have to cut a a few staff but we were really intentional about consolidating roles so that the impact was was less. We really thought about, okay, over the next few years, what are some of the kind of the model decisions that we need to make so that we can become more sustainable for our, you know, our teachers and our leaders and our line staff that are doing incredible work. And then on the flip side, you know, if philanthropy or grants and state grants, federal grants are are less available over the next few years, you need to counter that with stronger **enrollment** (00:32:00) GUEST: Rich Harrison: and at the end of the day like you know everybody everybody who's in my gets emails from all these you know folks who can say they can drum up enrollment for you at the end of the day like you're only going to drive enrollment through word of mouth and your your growth in enrollment is only as good as when that parent is on the corner talking to their neighbor talking about their children's experiences in their school. That is like the number one marketing thing. you know, you could we we do push ads on Instagram and things like that, too. Don't get me wrong, but like but at the end of the day, you win people over on on those corners or on those in those community gatherings. And so, you know, when I think about, you know, I had shared like, you know, we do have we've had strong increases in the number of special ed students and newcomer students. And quite honestly, I I attribute that to word of mouth because there are communities of families that are talking to one another wondering where the best schools are, where they're going to get the the best sense of safety and and and community in a school setting. And we're really fortunate to have like TK to 12 all on one block in a couple of campuses here in Oakland. So, it does have this family feel that people want. And we worked really hard to increase enrollment. There's declining enrollment in Oakland like a lot of places for sure. (00:33:23) HOST: Mike Montoya: Well, just less. (00:33:24) GUEST: Rich Harrison: Yeah. (00:33:25) GUEST: Rich Harrison: But our enrollment went up 5% from last year to this year. And and I attribute that to kind of those two things that are really important to me. right? Let's taking care of our kids and families. Let's take care of our employees. Making sure that, you know, we're not cutting benefits. We're our salaries are competitive. We're being thoughtful about making sure that this work can be sustainable and in what is kind of an expensive area of California to live in. Like that's that's those are two things that are really important to me. And I've had to model that out, you know, with our finance and our COO and our CFO. And and that's just as important today, just as much as the AC IC program and you know some of the college career things that we were talking about earlier. You only can do that if you have just stability in your staff base all that you have community adults turning over right and it causes the ripple effect right like there's there's I call it a slippage in like the experience for the families when you have a bunch of adults that are rotating out in and out of schools etc. And then and then it doesn't feel good right and and then they don't go around and tell their neighbors about it so to speak right and those are the that's where the all the slippery slope starts to happen. I It's interesting to hear you talk about that because we we have a bunch of talent clients and things like that and they're always balancing sort of similar things and some of them more successfully than others, right? But if it feels like if you're getting a 5% gain, right, in in a declining enrollment, you're doing kind of you're like walking that the tight rope carefully, right, in that regard and and balancing those things is really important. So kudos to you for that, right? Because that's like that's a huge challenge, right? And unfortunately, right, there like we continue as a society to sort of disenfranchise public schools, you know, right and left. Every time we turn around, there's another thing that's like working against the the system, so to speak, right? And and that's not anybody single person's fault, right? But it's like a it's a collective like disinvestment sometimes in this like major public good that I think I mean most of us take it for granted, right? I mean most most people in America went to public schools, right? And most of the workforce went through public schools. And it would be shocking to people, I think, to think if we didn't have that asset in that thing, right? It would be it would be terrible a terrible society I could imagine. So kind of scares me sometimes to think about the future if we we keep if we keep I call it winding it down, right? It's going to be a frightening hard hard thing to do. So (00:35:55) HOST: Mike Montoya: do you um do you sort of like have in the last couple years I know you know like a lot of leaders we've been talking to have like you know they went through the pandemic right and that like caused all sorts of crazy and pain right in all sorts of ways and most you know we fared it as a society okay right? But at the same time there was a lot of loss and pain through that experience and some people have reflected a little bit on like you know like h has has your **attitude about work and life and balance shifted or changed sort of in a postcoid era** right or is it I mean maybe you can't even remember before 2020 sometimes there's like a demarcation in our lives right oh I don't even remember anything before then so what's what's changed anything changed (00:36:44) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah I think I think it's changed for me both personally and professionally let me just kind of speak to the professionally first. What was kind of you know you know I so actually I was hired on as a CEO in February right before the pandemic broke and you know and I moved my family to Oakland in June when everything was locked down and and you know I was you know I was charged with not only figuring out how to how to lead in my new context but also lead you know through the pandic IC. And what was really interesting is that we did two things out the gate, right? One is like we actually converted one of our our schools into CDPH lab sites so that we would have like all the vaccine and testing that our community needed. And you know just that partnership with the California Department of Health was really important because you know kind of you know when you looked at these CO maps very early on if if Al County was or the city of Oakland was at X%. We were at like 3 to 5x that (00:37:57) GUEST: Rich Harrison: and and again like in many regards East Oakland is like a health desert, a food desert. And there are a lot of folks working service level jobs that are just that were just, you know, contracting COVID at much higher rates. And you and I got to see, you know, I you know, I knew there was, you know, some work we needed to do in terms of educating kids, but also just to see the health discrepancy. between our community and the rest of the community was something important and also got me thinking about you know how do we how can we provide more wraparound supports to meet the needs of our students and families and staff because you know those you know so I think like I think if there's a shift in how I approach things professionally it's it's coming to the these kind of conversations with more of like a **public health framework or mindset** thinking about like how do we manage it now and what are what are what are some things that are like root causes that we just need to really be thoughtful about solving for and that's not necessarily I've operated previously you know previously most charter leaders were like well what's the data how do we put the data right versus (00:39:10) GUEST: Rich Harrison: taking a public health approach so that I would say that's on the professional side of things on a personal side you know I I I I found myself I I bought like a huge a bunch of free weights for my garage and yeah, I feel like I've been on a five or six year bulk. I was eating a lot, working out a lot. I I gained like 30 pounds, you know, kind of bigger, stronger than I was, strong, right? But now that I'm I'll be I'll turn 50 pretty soon. I probably need to tone it down and and do more cardio and and and put less on my joints. But, you know, Uh, but you know, I feel like I'm pretty disciplined about eating well, meal prepping, staying hydrated, working out, and also just making sure that I'm taking care of myself and, you know, spending time with family. And so, you know, I think I think I think, you know, you just think about family and personal health a little bit differently post pandemic. And I'm sure a lot of like a lot of people, they've kind of thought differently about how they need to sustain themselves to do hard, fun and challenging work. (00:40:27) HOST: Mike Montoya: Yeah. I mean, I feel like there's not we don't CEOs, leaders, etc. We don't talk about like the all the things that they're going into their self management, right? On on the professional side as well as their physical body and their health and their family. Like those things are always like kind of like buried, right? Like we don't talk about it enough to say like, hey, like to keep the stress off, you have to do these things, right? Otherwise, you know, you could get crushed by it, right? In some ways because you have such a huge responsibility, too, right? You're like you said, you're taking care of the liv liv and their livelihood, let's call it that, of hundreds or thousands of people, right, that are employed as well as kids that are in their families that are in your your kind of I call it your circle of of care. And that's just like a big thing, right? You have to and you have to take care of yourself, right? And I think that piece sometimes goes by the wayside, right? So that's my again accolades, right, for keeping keeping it together. You're right. When you're turning 50, you have to then go on more walks as well so your joints don't die. But that will happen. That will happen eventually. That will happen eventually. (00:41:51) HOST: Mike Montoya: Is there I I kind of want to go down this road a little bit because I always like to hear about like, you know, now that you're a grownup, I call it that, right? Like if you look back and and thought about something you wanted to tell the, you know, the **Rich Harrison of of 2020, right? Or 2000**, the year 2000, right? Remember when you were teaching in New York? Like is there anything you would like coach that kid on now that you that come to your mind? (00:42:25) GUEST: Rich Harrison: Yeah, I think uh you know, I don't have any takebacks, you know, like I was kind of one of those folks like things happen for a reason. I'm on the journey for a reason. But if I were to think about like kind of advice to my younger self thing, I think there's kind of three things that I would kind of lift, you know, one is avoiding **group think**. (00:42:58) GUEST: Rich Harrison: And you know, I think and and actually like in in our in my industry kind of this ed reform space, it's it's kind of dangerous sometimes, right? Like you know, you'll have a philanthropy or two putting on a conference or two bringing all these leaders and you know there's some keynote speaker who has an idea for his or her context and you're like yep that's the idea and there's a like danger of group think and you know quite honestly like that type that culture of group think it's it's great that the group is thinking but but are we are we holding those ideas equitably with the ideas that let's say the community has or the community others have, right? And often times like they're at opposition or disconnect. And so I would I would I would give myself this advice of like, you know, avoid group think because, you know, while my leadership got from point A to point B with that group think and trying to see what other exemplar charter leaders or those that were kind of praised or visiting those schools that, you know, had highlighted programs that kind of informed my practice. I think I would have pushed myself or encouraged my younger self to really think about you know what's the you know what's on the other side. So my second point is like spending time on the **other side** you know I think like you know I mentioned public health or I mentioned other like nonprofits I think spending time with some of the leaders here in Oakland anyway over the last five years those who are working in public office or government agencies or nonprofits like how they operationalize their work looks differently and there's a lot to learn and so you know I think a lot of my learning was kind of confined in a certain space I think it's important for I would urge my younger self to like take learning opportunities in other sectors or in kind of you know kind of similar I I kind of use healthcare as like the most kind of kind of a very close thing to education right (00:44:59) GUEST: Rich Harrison: and then yeah and then and then uh you know having a growth mindset require There's curiosity, but this discipline of telling yourself that you could be wrong. So when you're making big decisions, I always push myself to, you know, assume that I'm wrong. Now, I think before there was just a lot of **ego-driven leadership**, quite honestly, that, you know, I felt I was right and because I held this seat, my golly, we're going to do that. (00:45:32) HOST: Mike Montoya: Going to do it that way. Yeah. (00:45:33) GUEST: Rich Harrison: Much more disciplined about checking myself, seeking feedback, pressure testing. with colleagues and just making sure that any idea that we roll out, it's not like what I would consider like hierarchy leadership driven. There's always going to be decisions that I have to make for the organization. I get that. But for the most important ones, you know, can there be intentional input or perspective that I don't bring that needs to be brought to major decisions? And I think uh that's definitely not how I led when I was younger, but it's kind of how I lead now. And think that I probably would have gotten more impact had I led with that type of mindset and philosophy back then. (00:46:27) HOST: Mike Montoya: Maybe I mean I think I I think that's a good point of reflection right to think about like how what maybe has changed in you as a person right over the the course of time that's made that more I call it possible right because I don't know lots of times I think younger uh leaders are it's like parts of our brains come on at different stages of our career my view right and this is I'm not Not labeling this directly on anybody specifically, but it's like my view is that like I didn't even have the capacity to learn and engage in ways that I do now 20 years ago. I just didn't have it just wasn't in my awareness set, right? Maybe there was just like less education, less exposure than I have now, right? And it came over time. So the wisdom part, right, which is allowing you to kind of reflect on this thing, right? Is I think it actually comes with time, right? And back to like the the elders and your your all the way back to your original story of of teaching in the Bronx, etc., right? And things like that. Like those (00:47:35) GUEST: Rich Harrison: those pieces fall into place over time. I don't know if our brains are even wired that way when we're 30 years old, right? So, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And yeah, but just grateful for the experiences and the runways and just the people that I've had intersecting through my journey because, you know, it's just I think the discipline and the power of **reflection is so critical** for any leader, teacher, educator and and you know, how do we also that (00:48:07) HOST: Mike Montoya: yeah (00:48:08) GUEST: Rich Harrison: for our staff but also for our children and families (00:48:19) GUEST: Rich Harrison: you know and you know I think that's just you know especially with you know AI and kind of emerging technologies and things like that like there has to be a discipline to keep things more human and and and sharing reflection seeking feedback owning mistakes seeking community but individual feedback on a very proximate level is is is really important. You know, I'll still put, you know, surveys into a into a GPT to like, you know, summarize it for me or something like that, but like at the end of the day, you're only going to get traction if you're proximate with people. And, you know, I think there's a there's there's there's going to be a needed discipline for people to do that, especially with with changes that we all anticipate. (00:49:25) HOST: Mike Montoya: Yeah. The f the future I I think is so impossible to see, right? No one can see around the corner, but I feel like the whole like **humanness**, right, that we can experience together, right? It's like a thing that if you aren't training kids empathetically, right, now, right, they don't grow those muscles into adulthood, right? And then it almost becomes impossible for them to make good decisions that are not just self-based, right? And that's that's like a that's like a thing that we all I think could use a larger dose of sometimes in this country without again knowing the whole of like the crazy stuff that we're experiencing. sometimes but I feel like if you felt and lived the circumstances of some of the things that are happening you might feel differently and act differently too right so that's my view too on the same page so it's interesting stuff I just want to say that if you're a leader entrepreneur or business owner who needs some support there's an easy way to get a think tank behind you and your vision the genius discovery program at thought leader path is like having your own one-on-one incubation and acceleratorship program they'll help you develop an approach based on your own story in your plan for impact and offer the tools and thought leader assets needed to really amplify your message, including launching a podcast like this one. If you're ready to stop grinding in the dark and start making real impact with the right support, check out geniusdiscovery.org. How do you keep yourself I mean I know as a like as a charter leader as a leader right in the space like you're kind of always on like you're running to people at the grocery store you'll like you know these people are also like living in the around the corner on the walk. How do you keep yourself I call it **safe and whole** in some ways like where you do have Do you have practices or something that allows you to kind of downcycle out of the leadership role and into your into your personal self? And is that different than your than your job? (00:51:58) GUEST: Rich Harrison: Yeah. Yeah. So, I talked a little bit about just like, you know, food, meal prepping, hydrating, working out, being proximate with family, but then there's like a couple of things that I do just for like I do I do there's a kind of a weird thing that I do for my **downtime**. And then there's, you know, I think like workflow is really important and there's so there's something I do for my workflow. So let me tell you about the downtime. I love watching TV, but there's not enough time in the day to like watch a watch a full episode that's an hour long. So I have this like vice where you know on Netflix you can you can play shows or movies at like 1.5 speed. So people watch like series at like 1.5 speed just But like I just love the pace except if it's like really remarkable acting, right? Then I'm like okay real time as the way like the actors and the director intended. But like if it's like a trash TV show or like a you know something that I can breeze through like I just like that helps me sleep episode or two in like 30 minutes and it feels great that you got a lot accomplished in a short period of time and you can shut it down. So I do this like speed up Netflix as my downtime. (00:53:23) GUEST: Rich Harrison: I think that's it in terms of **workflow**, like my music is really important to me and I stream music consistently like as soon as I wake up to my my dog walking, driving my kid to school, my work in the office. And so every month I I let the algorithms choose. There's certain like reviewers I I follow and I will put together like a list of albums or songs and it's usually around 6 to 800 songs a month, but I but I'm pretty disciplined. Like each month I have like a like a 6 to 800 song playlist every month and that is what is streaming for that month. (00:54:20) GUEST: Rich Harrison: And so so you know we're in October 3rd. I'm in the October, you know, 2025 playlist of like seven songs that I kind of curated last month. And every month I do that and I've been doing it for two years now. And so it becomes like the soundtrack for the month and I and I try to mix it up a little bit, you know. I follow a lot of like R&B, hiphop, and I try to find like artists that are just trying to make it, you know, and every once in a while I'll like hit them up on Instagram like, you know, hey, you're a new album. Like, I know you're you're on the come up, like, great job. Keep it up. Like, this is what I do. And and so I I always make it to like reach out to some of these up and coming artists or maybe they're not up and coming, they just like produce for their local scene and that's really cool, too. So, but every month I put together this like list of songs and it becomes my soundtrack for the month and uh it's it's it's yeah, it's kind of like my soundtrack. (00:55:38) HOST: Mike Montoya: We might have to get you to share your Spotify list or wherever you keep it in there because that feels like a valuable asset like it can benefit from all this. I feel like there's there's so much like opportunity now for artists to get seen and noticed, but also there's so many artists being seen and noticed that that's hard to bring through, right? So, it's it's like magic when it happens. So, (00:56:07) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah. I mean, uh there, you know, and also that like just how record companies worked, you know, back in the day, like a percentage of CDs that we would buy for $12 would go to the artist. Now, like for $12, you have a Spotify account that you could listen to whatever you want, whenever you want. And and so, you know, but at the end of the day, like I kind of feel like everyone should try to find like whatever it is that helps them get into the flow of them being able to manage their personal life, their family life, their professional life and you know how do you make sure that those intersections are kind of fluid and strong flow because you know I want to be a great husband, a bomb dad. I want to be you know great in my leadership position and that you know there's there's a flow that's required for that and and music is Is that for me (00:57:11) HOST: Mike Montoya: part of it that's part of part of the anchor for you? Yeah. This whole idea work life balance kind of gets contorted. I think sometimes I think the idea like harmony and work and work in life harmony, right? Somehow it has to all work together because it's not the same. My my view is that it's like hasn't been like consistent year over year, right? Every year seems to carve out a new potential, right? It's almost like the river continues to wind. You get further and further down it. You don't really know what's going to happen. So, but being in the river, you kind of just go with it, right? And and in some ways, you be just fine if you kind of like brought your gear with you and you have your your people right sort of along for the ride, you're going to be okay, right? So, (00:58:14) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah. And I also think too that like, you know, I have a **leadership coach and I and I and I talked to a therapist**. I'm unapologetic about that. Like it's it's so important to me. And you know, actually it was my therapist who kind of, you know, as she got to know me said, "Hey, you know, your work is an addiction and and you have to be mindful of that because there's definitely times in in a year where I can be like very overly invested in my work and you know for I think some people who you know just enjoy working they have to ask themselves are you enjoying working or are you addicted to the work right and and those are two separate things and if you find yourself being addicted to the work like you have to be able to catch yourself and to create that that balance Because I think that you know there's some people that just naturally work hard all the time and and you know when you kind of ask yourself why is that is it because they want to do a good job or is it because you know oh I'm going to stay another hour or two because like you know you're just kind of like addicted to that work you know and so and really just being able to you know that that I've seen a lot of people who've kind of burnt out because of that propensity and you know we don't want our most talented people burning out and so So, you know, I think, you know, I've had to kind of like own that, share that so that just so that I could model that discipline. (00:59:58) HOST: Mike Montoya: Yeah, I was going to say that nobody people do not normally talk and disclose, right? Like sort of what those things are that they're and sharing and learning about, right, from their own personal growth side, right? Like people sort of assume that like leaders, you know, have all their s*** together all the time and don't need all this support and it's probably just not true, right? And knowing my own my own style and experience. So, I mean to all of our audience, right, whenever they listen to this Hopefully they'll hear right that like you know like it's it is kind of normal right to have support and help right and kind of keep your eye on the the balance points right because it can get outside so I think education work in particular can pull on you more and demand more right than some other fields because you are dealing with so much responsibility in the lives of kids right and it's like a really heavy thing sometimes it's also full of joy and incredible but at the same time man it can like pull you too close too fast too hard right sometimes (01:01:21) GUEST: Rich Harrison: yeah and And I would also just add like you know for me an element of that is you know as I shared earlier like I was born and raised in Japan. I'm half Japanese. I identify as Asian and you know I'm leading in East Oakland that is a a black and brown community. You know 85% of our staff are leaders of color. 99 change is you know of our students are you know black and brown. And and it is it is it is so important for me to have kind of a space and I talk about this with my leadership coach or my therapist or you know I'm also in some of these AAPI circles for leaders like you know how I show up is important. How I lead across lines of difference is really important. You know how I reflect the needs of our community. I want to I want to I want to do it right and and you know that kind of almost thinking and synthesis of how to do that especially in a place like Oakland where where you know uh if you run charter schools they're going to uh kind of inquire and scrutinize you at a level of depth. You know I I I need the space to talk through and think about how I need to evolve in my leadership but also show up in my leadership. And u you know I found that like you know again just just creating time to have those conversations with with pros helps me do the work better but also just kind of sustains myself, but I'm also able to communicate and lead more effectively. And so, you know, you know, it's I would say that also is another investment that leaders should always consider making as they especially if they're leading in in in challenging contexts. And if you're working in public schools right now, like, you know, the politics of education has been so elevated that, you know, everyone needs a therapist these days. If they're (01:03:22) HOST: Mike Montoya: We all We all need a little. That's right. I Yeah, I can't agree more. I mean, I think that I'm trying not to I won't label you but I want to say like the authent authenticity right that you're bringing with regards and like I call it just like this true desire right that it sort of that you're expressing to like do it well I think you said to do it right right to do it right right to do right by kids etc like that but that is maybe the note to take away is to say like hey like it can be done right when people pay attention to all these features right that are happening and that you use the word proximity a lot today but I think it's important that we like remember right that these are you know, places where people live, right? And this is like a life and culture that we're a part of for either a long time or a short time, right? And we got to treat it with care, right, in many cases. So, so awesome. Hey, Rich. Thank you very much. I'm going to wrap it up here. I'm going to hit the stop button here and we're going to say thank you for the afternoon. (01:04:47) HOST: Mike Montoya: My thanks to **Rich Harrison** for joining us today and for the work he's leading in East Oakland. My takeaways from Rich, start with the community and not the spreadsheet. And if you're really working to support the success of young people, then you should work to build career and technical education with real employers and case manage kids into great jobs. Thanks so much for tuning in today. We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us and tuning in today. To find out about other podcasts that matter, visit podcastsmatter.org. Thanks for listening to the Stronger Podcast. If this conversation inspired you, we invite you to follow the show and share it with someone who's on a journey to become a happier and healthier version of themselves. Links and resources are in the show notes. See you next Thursday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Have a great day and stay strong.