Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 109. From Federal Leadership to Starting Over: Career Pivot at 40 with Yaa-Hemaa Obiri-Yeboah

Transcript

109. From Federal Leadership to Starting Over: Career Pivot at 40 with Yaa-Hemaa Obiri-Yeboah · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

• 0:00
  Hello, welcome back to the All figured out podcast.
• 0:02
  My name is Andrea Barr. Thank you so much for joining me
• 0:05
  again this week. And if you're new, welcome.
• 0:08
  You've made a great choice tuning in today.
• 0:11
  My guest is someone whose story of recorded and it's just stuck
• 0:17
  with me ever since I met her. I just knew she was just so cool
• 0:21
  and we really just are feel very values aligned.
• 0:24
  Yahima Oberia Boa is a leadership coach, former
• 0:27
  executive in the federal government, Rhodes Scholar,
• 0:31
  singer-songwriter and most recently, the founder of the Y
• 0:34
  Variable, which is a business designed to support the next
• 0:37
  generation of talent as they navigate early career
• 0:40
  transitions. She is incredible.
• 0:43
  She's got an unbelievable story from early childhood.
• 0:46
  We talk about everything from surviving a political coup as a
• 0:49
  baby, climbing the government ranks as a mother of two, to the
• 0:53
  exact moment that she realized her creative spark and
• 0:57
  leadership potential deserved more than just the next
• 1:01
  promotion. She really gave it her all in
• 1:03
  the federal government. She seemed like she really loved
• 1:06
  and enjoyed her work, but she knew there was something more
• 1:08
  for her. And I think that could really
• 1:10
  resonate with a lot of us and a lot of you listening.
• 1:12
  And so I know you're going to enjoy this episode.
• 1:14
  If you've ever felt like you were made for something more,
• 1:16
  you couldn't quite put your finger on it.
• 1:18
  This conversation is 100% for you.
• 1:21
  It's honestly this discussion, when I think back on it, it was
• 1:24
  really about talking about ambition, your identity, giving
• 1:28
  yourself permission to pivot even when things look good, and
• 1:33
  just sticking with it. We have a really interesting
• 1:36
  discussion at the end too, about generations and how generations
• 1:40
  can work Better Together in the workplace and how important that
• 1:43
  is. We even talked about remote
• 1:44
  work, what we think works best in terms of remote work.
• 1:47
  So this is for all you leaders. Tell your parents you're going
• 1:51
  to love this. You're going to love Yahima.
• 1:53
  I hope you enjoy. You're listening to the All
• 1:57
  Figured Out podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Barr.
• 2:02
  I'm a career coach for parents, mom of two, and a
• 2:05
  self-proclaimed expert at winging it.
• 2:08
  I've learned one thing, No parent has it all figured out
• 2:11
  and that's OK. So grab a coffee or hide in your
• 2:15
  car for some knee time. We're about to figure out this
• 2:17
  work life and parenting stuff out together.
• 2:22
  Yahima Obiri Ebola. Did they do it?
• 2:26
  He did a very good job. Yeah, it is such a pleasure to
• 2:30
  have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining
• 2:32
  me. Oh, thank you for having me.
• 2:35
  I'm, I'm excited for this. We met recently, I guess a
• 2:38
  couple months ago now at the Motherhood 2.0 summit put on by
• 2:44
  our mutual friend Christine. And we just, I feel like I just,
• 2:48
  I don't know, I feel like we just hit it off.
• 2:50
  Maybe that's maybe that's one sided, but I just felt like I
• 2:52
  had like when you forever and was so excited.
• 2:57
  Too, I wanted to connect as well because I was just, you know,
• 3:00
  you feel like you meet like minded people and similar vibe,
• 3:03
  all of that. So yeah, no, it was great.
• 3:05
  I met so many wonderful people. So it was.
• 3:08
  Is this one of those environments?
• 3:10
  100%, I know. And it was so cool because I
• 3:12
  feel like in the motherhood community, I actually don't.
• 3:16
  I don't meet a lot of people who do anything really that similar
• 3:19
  to what I do. I would say I don't know how you
• 3:21
  feel about that, but it was just so nice to meet someone when
• 3:24
  you're like, I'm a I, I forget how you like introduced
• 3:27
  yourself, but I was basically like, wait, she's a career
• 3:29
  coach, but for like the next generation, I'm like, that's so
• 3:31
  fun. Like we do really similar work.
• 3:33
  So, so fun to to connect. But also I was most just
• 3:37
  enthralled by your story. You've got such a cool,
• 3:41
  interesting, inspiring story. I mean, motherhood aside, just
• 3:45
  like your career story. But then we'll get into how
• 3:48
  motherhood joined your career story.
• 3:50
  So take us back. I'm really curious, like what
• 3:53
  you were like as a little girl. Because knowing your career
• 3:55
  history now I'm like, who is Yahima?
• 3:58
  Tell me everything. What were you like?
• 4:02
  I mean, I think I was the good girl.
• 4:04
  I would think it was the nice girl that probably the high
• 4:07
  achiever for sure. That was definitely an aspect.
• 4:11
  So my family came as political refugees actually to Canada.
• 4:15
  So I was born in Ghana and my parents thought that was where
• 4:19
  their life was going to be. Quite naturally, my dad was in
• 4:22
  the military. There was a coup.
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  He did not want to participate in the coup.
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  His whole belief quite naturally is if you don't like the
• 4:31
  government empower you wait, you know, for the next election.
• 4:35
  And that was not the the response that that was desired.
• 4:38
  And so that, you know, upheaval in a lot of ways, I I think
• 4:42
  informs me like how can you not be informed by those sorts of
• 4:45
  circumstances? So I think there was that sense
• 4:48
  like so many immigrant families, like you need to work hard,
• 4:51
  education is really important, all of that.
• 4:54
  And so I think that was a major element for me was like wanting
• 4:58
  to do well. I think I have that natural
• 5:00
  drives, of course, but I think circumstances too kind of led me
• 5:05
  led me that way. So, you know, ended up being
• 5:08
  high school valedictorian, but I don't think it was just because
• 5:11
  of academics. Like I think I feel like my
• 5:14
  strong Suit 2 wasn't, you know, making connections and, you
• 5:17
  know, building good friendships and things like that.
• 5:19
  So I think, you know, that contributed as well.
• 5:22
  But yeah, definitely that achiever mindset was was strong.
• 5:27
  Oh my goodness, can I? Can I ask more questions about
• 5:30
  the, the move to Canada and about your dad?
• 5:33
  Because I just don't, I, I'm so ignorant into, you know, what it
• 5:37
  would be like to be a political refugee, what it would be like
• 5:40
  for your dad, for your parents, you know, whoever was involved
• 5:43
  in making those decisions to even make that call.
• 5:46
  So he was in the military. And was it the people who were
• 5:49
  in the military with him are, you know, who was it that
• 5:52
  decided to kind of go forth with the coup?
• 5:56
  And then was he going against kind of the people that he was
• 5:59
  working beside? Like I'm picturing like my
• 6:01
  corporate life. And it's like the person next to
• 6:02
  you is like, hey, let's do this. And you're like, whoa.
• 6:06
  Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
• 6:07
  Yes. It was a Jenna was Jerry
• 6:10
  Rawlings, who later became president actually of the
• 6:12
  country. So this was, I think was his
• 6:14
  second coup attempt. And my dad was really
• 6:16
  charismatic and and really what helped him, like, there were,
• 6:21
  you know, of a group of 11, about eight or nine were killed
• 6:24
  by firing squad. And literally, like my dad left
• 6:27
  in the middle of the night, you know, somehow escaped, you know,
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  some of the reason why he was protected and safe because there
• 6:34
  were some people he had helped. Like there was somebody was
• 6:37
  supposed to bring him in and he couldn't because my dad had
• 6:39
  helped to pay for his father's funeral.
• 6:41
  Like, so there were just these little things that that saved
• 6:45
  him in the end. And there were there were people
• 6:47
  who were looking out for him, you know, who who had his back.
• 6:51
  And it's just circumstances that allowed him.
• 6:55
  Like, literally my parents left with the suitcase and me, like,
• 6:57
  I was only a few months at that stage.
• 7:01
  So I mean, it was a combination. Yeah.
• 7:03
  There were people who, you know, you're in the military, you kind
• 7:06
  of follow along in some ways, but there were also other people
• 7:10
  who, you know, kind of stuck up, stuck their necks out in some
• 7:13
  ways to to help him. So from Ghana, they ended up
• 7:18
  going to Nigeria, where one of my brothers was born.
• 7:21
  And there was an event called the World Council of Churches.
• 7:23
  And because my parents were thinking UK, just the
• 7:26
  Commonwealth connection with Donna, maybe the UK, but they
• 7:29
  felt like it was a bit close. And so someone said there was an
• 7:32
  event in Vancouver, roll councillor churches, you might
• 7:35
  want to consider going to Canada instead.
• 7:37
  And so that's what led us to to Vancouver.
• 7:42
  So, yeah, I mean, it's kind of like my dad, his background did
• 7:45
  aeronautical and electrical engineering.
• 7:47
  But you know, you come to Canada, the very typical
• 7:49
  stories, some people aren't accepting, you know, in terms of
• 7:54
  your credentials and all of that.
• 7:55
  And so, so I, you know, I saw, you know, my parents really
• 7:58
  striving and working hard. They're really well educated.
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  You know, my mom comes from a line of teachers.
• 8:03
  All of that, but having to start, you know, start over
• 8:06
  again, so. Can you?
• 8:09
  Now that you're a mom, Can you imagine something?
• 8:13
  You know the the same situation but having to leave Canada with
• 8:16
  a three month old baby and you're fleet?
• 8:19
  Can you imagine that? My parents were younger too than
• 8:23
  me. Like I had my kids, you know, a
• 8:25
  few years later than my mom did because by the time she was I
• 8:28
  guess 30 or early 30, she had three kids.
• 8:31
  So trying to Canada with two, you know, two young kids in her
• 8:38
  late 20s, my dad in his early 30s.
• 8:41
  And that's the time where you're kind of solidifying, right?
• 8:44
  Like you've been working for a while, you're building up your
• 8:47
  career and suddenly having to start over again, but not by
• 8:51
  your own will. It's it's, you know,
• 8:53
  circumstances that unfortunately have come your way.
• 8:56
  So yeah. And I think about it often.
• 8:58
  Like, I like my mom didn't have her mom like I have my mom here,
• 9:02
  right? Like when I need help with the
• 9:03
  kids, like my parents were really, you know, been really
• 9:07
  helpful. And so trying to do all of that
• 9:10
  on your own and the whole set of sort of roadblocks, you know, in
• 9:14
  your way too, is that's a very different circumstance that she
• 9:17
  had in comparison to, you know, to what I have now.
• 9:20
  Holy smokes, we could, I mean, I could ask you a million and a
• 9:25
  half more questions about that because that's it's just, and
• 9:27
  it's unbelievable and it's such an it definitely, you know, they
• 9:30
  always talk about like generational, generational
• 9:33
  trauma. There's definitely trauma that
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  would of course have been involved in that.
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  But just that generational grit, like, you know, the fact that
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  like, even though you were only a couple months old, like
• 9:42
  because that's part of your story, I just feel like I can
• 9:45
  now see like how and why you've become so successful and
• 9:50
  confident and smart. And, you know, it's like these,
• 9:53
  I don't know, the most I think you hear on podcasts like people
• 9:56
  who have just done so well in their businesses and you're
• 9:59
  like, who are these people? And there's that level of
• 10:00
  resilience and grit in certain people have gone through
• 10:04
  something. I don't know.
• 10:05
  I think it really makes it makes for more interesting story, of
• 10:08
  course, as a podcaster, but I think it makes for humans that
• 10:13
  can just like do anything. So thank you for sharing that.
• 10:16
  That's holy smokes, what a story, and we're just getting
• 10:20
  started. Yeah, no, like a point of we can
• 10:24
  do amazing things. I mean, there people have gone
• 10:26
  through more than I have in the my family like and I.
• 10:28
  So you just go wow people, we can as human beings, we can do
• 10:33
  amazing things. Doesn't mean it's easy
• 10:35
  necessarily, but it's it is possible.
• 10:38
  Yeah, wow. And so valedictorian, like I
• 10:42
  could totally see this. You're like star student for
• 10:46
  sure. Like probably just, you know,
• 10:47
  the person that's everybody's friend and does well.
• 10:51
  Well, Fast forward, you know, education, what kind of did you
• 10:55
  go to post secondary school? What was your story after high
• 10:58
  school? Yeah, I did.
• 11:00
  I did. I stayed in BC after high
• 11:03
  school, so I went to DC for my undergrad and then I was
• 11:08
  fortunate enough to be selected as a Road Scholar.
• 11:11
  And so I went to Oxford after that and did my, I did 2
• 11:15
  graduate degrees there. So yeah.
• 11:18
  Yeah, it's looking back at it sometimes I'm like, that did
• 11:21
  that all that, you know, happened to me and it it did.
• 11:25
  But that was also, I think what has been really important to you
• 11:29
  in my life is just I've had people really been supportive of
• 11:32
  me as well. Like I had a professor who
• 11:34
  basically said, I think you should apply.
• 11:36
  You know, you're involved in community stuff, you're doing
• 11:39
  well and, you know, in your studies.
• 11:41
  And I wasn't even on my radar, to be honest.
• 11:43
  And so, yeah, it was just one of those stories.
• 11:47
  I think that goes to show it's also about community as well.
• 11:50
  It's who has your back and, and, and all of that to.
• 11:54
  And so I was fortunate to have that because it wasn't on my
• 11:57
  radar and my institution wasn't necessarily looking at me for it
• 12:02
  even maybe in that way, maybe I wasn't on the radar as well.
• 12:05
  And I had a professor who said, well, no one gets those.
• 12:08
  So like, don't kind of put your eggs in that basket even.
• 12:11
  But it ended up working out. Then you're like pointing your
• 12:15
  finger at him or her, them being like.
• 12:20
  Yeah, sometimes we go for things and it works out like a great
• 12:24
  lesson and you just don't know, right?
• 12:26
  So you try it. If it works out, it can be
• 12:29
  amazing, and if it doesn't, well, you don't have any doubts
• 12:31
  in your mind afterwards. OK, I have to ask someone who is
• 12:35
  not a Rhodes Scholar what is a Rhodes Scholar?
• 12:37
  I actually don't know what that is.
• 12:40
  So, you know, it it was pretty amazing in the sense that it was
• 12:44
  like a full ride essentially to Oxford.
• 12:47
  So it covered covered everything.
• 12:50
  So studies, living expenses, all of that.
• 12:54
  So for at least two years, if not three, depending on the
• 12:57
  degree. So it was, you know, community
• 13:00
  involvement, like leadership in addition to the academic.
• 13:04
  So it's quite the history in terms of Cecil Rhodes who, who
• 13:08
  started the scholarship over like over 125 years ago that
• 13:13
  really was yeah, for studies amongst sort of Commonwealth
• 13:16
  students to study at Oxford, those who have that academic
• 13:20
  background, but also involved in their communities and, you know,
• 13:25
  showing that leadership and, and, and all of that as well.
• 13:28
  So those are, those are all components.
• 13:30
  Yeah. Wow, OK, I'd actually didn't
• 13:32
  know when people say Rd. scholar.
• 13:34
  To be honest. I didn't know that it was tied
• 13:36
  to Oxford, only Oxford. I thought it was like a, I don't
• 13:39
  know, some sort of designation. So you did your you finished
• 13:42
  your degree at by UBC and then did another degree at Oxford as
• 13:47
  well? Yeah, I did 2 masters programs,
• 13:50
  so when I was and then and then after that, that's when I ended
• 13:55
  up moving to Ottawa and working in the federal government.
• 13:58
  And they probably scooped you right up.
• 14:01
  Yeah. You know, I hadn't been thinking
• 14:03
  about government, to be honest. When I was finishing up my grad
• 14:06
  studies, I did English and women's studies.
• 14:09
  And I was like, am I going to go and do this logic tree that I've
• 14:12
  been talking about or go into the private sector?
• 14:15
  And there was a recruitment program and they had an event
• 14:18
  and they basically said, look, we're looking for, you know,
• 14:22
  what we feel are sort of talented graduate students to
• 14:24
  come back to Canada and work in the public service.
• 14:27
  And I really like the ethos of it, to be honest and giving
• 14:31
  back, you know, I think as immigrants as well.
• 14:34
  Like that idea being able to give back to to Canada and that
• 14:37
  way was really intriguing. And so it worked out.
• 14:41
  I got in, you know, interviewed sort of past those hurdles for
• 14:44
  the recruitment program and then what's now Global Affairs
• 14:48
  Canada, but what was then called Foreign Affairs and
• 14:50
  International Trade. I entered the department back in
• 14:53
  2005, so long time ago. Now, So what level of clearance
• 14:57
  did you have? Did you meet any spies?
• 15:01
  Well, I don't think so. I mean, who knows, but certainly
• 15:05
  secret or top secret clearance for for those that that, that
• 15:08
  type of work. So yeah, I know I got to work on
• 15:10
  some pretty amazing projects, you know, over the the time I
• 15:13
  was there, but I was on the trade side of the department
• 15:17
  over those years. OK, What does your day-to-day
• 15:20
  look like? Because I'm, I only know of
• 15:23
  people who have earned their early career, worked in the
• 15:25
  government and it was very much like kind of what we all joke
• 15:29
  about when we talk about, oh, I just want to go clock in, clock
• 15:31
  out of the government. You kind of worked in a
• 15:34
  different side of the government.
• 15:36
  You were federal, you were in Ottawa, extremely educated, you
• 15:40
  know, so like, what was, I'm just picturing like desk
• 15:42
  pushers. But like what?
• 15:43
  What was your day like? You know, I didn't feel like I
• 15:47
  was a desk pressure, but I think also when I came into
• 15:50
  government, I was working on a like a big policy initiative
• 15:53
  with a, with a really dynamic team.
• 15:55
  And so I came in with other people who, you know, had more
• 16:01
  experience than me. So I just feel like I'm learning
• 16:03
  like it. It almost felt in some ways like
• 16:05
  a continuation of my graduate studies in the sense of I'm
• 16:08
  learning how government works and I'm working on this big
• 16:11
  policy project and all of that. So it was really, it was really
• 16:15
  quite exciting. And so I I felt very fortunate
• 16:18
  to come into that kind of role too, because I really got to see
• 16:21
  how the department worked and who the players were, all of
• 16:24
  that. So maybe if I landed somewhere
• 16:26
  else, you might, you know, government might have been a
• 16:28
  little less appealing, but I was in a good spot.
• 16:31
  Wow, you're very humble and you keep, I'm noticing that if I was
• 16:35
  coaching you, I'd be like, hey, girl, take ownership for some of
• 16:37
  this stuff. You're like, I'm so lucky.
• 16:39
  I feel fortunate, of course, which we can we can share a
• 16:42
  privilege. But I think you, I know you had
• 16:45
  a lot to do with all of that, too.
• 16:46
  They weren't just, they weren't just picking anyone to give that
• 16:49
  lanyard to. I think I've been watching too
• 16:51
  many of these like political drama shows.
• 16:55
  I didn't have. Yeah, I did.
• 16:56
  I did not live like Scandal or anything like that.
• 16:58
  It was not a rhymes drama. That would have been
• 17:01
  interesting, I'm sure. But you know, it was.
• 17:05
  I can just begin, just pretend. I'll picture it in my head.
• 17:08
  OK, so then you're in the government for a while.
• 17:13
  How did you? I, I guess a question that I
• 17:15
  have for you is how did you keep, keep that spark alive?
• 17:21
  You know, it's like a marriage. How did you keep this spark of
• 17:23
  being in one job? For how long was it over 15
• 17:25
  years You were? Yeah, I worked.
• 17:28
  It was about 19 or so years, you know, if you set aside, you
• 17:32
  know, couple mat leaves. But yeah, I was there for a long
• 17:35
  time. I think one of the things that
• 17:38
  helped maybe in terms of being in that in government for that
• 17:41
  time frame, she was just, I'd had a number of different roles,
• 17:44
  so I was never in the same job. I think that would have been
• 17:47
  really challenging for me because I'm someone who I like
• 17:49
  projects and, you know, people to work on something for maybe a
• 17:52
  defined period of time. And then I'm ready to kind of go
• 17:55
  on to the next thing because I'm like, OK, I built this skill
• 17:59
  set. Let's, you know, let's try to
• 18:02
  build up something else. So had a number of different
• 18:05
  jobs, but there did come a point where it just didn't feel like
• 18:08
  it was quite enough. And so at that stage, it was
• 18:12
  kind of getting back in touch with some of the things that
• 18:14
  I've always really loved doing that maybe came more naturally
• 18:19
  to me. And so it was like, OK, I need
• 18:21
  to get back into some of this creative work.
• 18:23
  And so was getting back into writing and I'm blogging and
• 18:28
  things like that. I've had a few pieces like
• 18:31
  published as well and, and in some online publications and I
• 18:36
  got back into music too. And so on life on the side
• 18:41
  essentially sort of have this music side hustle.
• 18:43
  So I had this, my tagline is sort of like public servant by
• 18:46
  day, singer-songwriter by night. And literally was that in the,
• 18:51
  you know, in the evenings there was a jazz bar and a hotel that
• 18:55
  was sometimes play at ended up, you know, writing an EP
• 19:00
  releasing that. And I was really fortunate that
• 19:03
  CBC out in Ottawa was very, very supportive of me as well.
• 19:08
  And so was doing that for some time, like literally on the
• 19:11
  radio in the morning. And then I would, you know,
• 19:14
  drive as fast as I could to get, you know, get into work for a
• 19:17
  meeting in the morning with my director general, you know,
• 19:20
  things like that. So it was definitely sort of
• 19:22
  this two pronged life at one stage.
• 19:25
  So which was which was fun but also made me think like what is
• 19:29
  it I really want as well? Yes, Oh my gosh, you're
• 19:32
  incredible. I, oh, we could go do a whole
• 19:35
  other podcast about your, your musical career.
• 19:38
  How much of that do you still like, how do you express
• 19:40
  yourself from the musical perspective nowadays?
• 19:43
  Like, are you able to kind of keep that alive for yourself so
• 19:46
  that it doesn't feel like it's, you know, it's something you
• 19:48
  have to really put on the back burner?
• 19:50
  Yeah, that's a good question. Is it, it's a little bit on the
• 19:53
  back burner. It's been maybe 2 years since my
• 19:55
  last show. It's part of it too is with kids
• 19:57
  and not I don't like claim them like my children are.
• 20:01
  If I if I wanted to revive that I think I could, but.
• 20:06
  Yeah, I think it's important for me to have that creative side
• 20:09
  and some of it is coming through the business.
• 20:11
  So to be honest as well, because this is, you know, my own
• 20:14
  endeavor has my name on it, I'm putting my stamp, my brand on
• 20:19
  it, all of that. So although it's not music, it
• 20:22
  does still feel like it's it's very much tied to that creative
• 20:26
  side. Yeah, I love that.
• 20:28
  Now take us through how and when children entered the picture.
• 20:32
  So you are a high flying bad ass woman and government and and you
• 20:39
  were in Ottawa that whole time. So you did you stay in Ottawa?
• 20:42
  Not the whole time I moved. So I was in Ottawa about 11
• 20:45
  years and then I moved back to Vancouver.
• 20:48
  So I, and this is sort of where I can see things are starting to
• 20:53
  sort of turn and change direction.
• 20:54
  And as I was nearing the end of an assignment, I just thought, I
• 20:58
  think I want to be back in Vancouver.
• 21:00
  I want to be closer to family. And I remember at that time just
• 21:04
  sort of thinking too, I, you know, my parents are healthy.
• 21:07
  I'd like to be around while they're healthy because I, you
• 21:11
  know, I've seen some friends go through some things with their
• 21:13
  own parents. And I just thought, I don't want
• 21:15
  to be out here in Ottawa and I'm going back because there is an
• 21:19
  ailment or, or something of that sort.
• 21:22
  And I felt I needed a little shake up too, I think in in my
• 21:26
  life. And this to me felt like it was
• 21:29
  a step closer to getting to what it was that I wanted.
• 21:33
  One of the things I was saying a lot to people, not to many
• 21:37
  people, but those who are closest to me was like, I want
• 21:39
  to be able to operate from my power.
• 21:42
  And I wasn't feeling like I was like, I know on paper I've done
• 21:48
  some, you know, some cool things.
• 21:50
  I've been on some amazing projects, have had some really
• 21:54
  amazing experiences, but it didn't always feel like it was
• 21:57
  totally an alignment. And so, you know, not sure what
• 22:02
  that next thing was like, oh, should I be doing music full
• 22:05
  time? Should I be writing?
• 22:06
  So I'd explored a few different things, but wasn't quite sure.
• 22:10
  And so I thought at least a change of scene would be, would
• 22:14
  be useful. And so there was an opportunity
• 22:18
  to move to a regional office here.
• 22:20
  And so spent a year to think tank doing an interchange
• 22:23
  assignment. And then so it's still tied to
• 22:26
  government, but I got to do that, which was an experience
• 22:28
  I'd wanted for some time. And so it was cool that I got do
• 22:32
  that for a year and then Global Affairs has a regional office
• 22:36
  here. And so started started there and
• 22:40
  kind of worked my my way up. But yeah, that's what brought me
• 22:44
  to Vancouver. And then shortly after moving
• 22:46
  here, I remember people saying the dating scene, I don't know
• 22:49
  if you want to do that, doesn't care.
• 22:53
  So it worked out in the end. That's after moving back, yeah.
• 22:58
  How sorry? How long after?
• 23:00
  It was maybe like 3 or 4 months after I moved back that, yeah,
• 23:04
  we met online, but yeah, I worked out.
• 23:07
  Your parents must have been so happy for you to move and then
• 23:10
  be for you to find find the one they're like, yes, now you're
• 23:14
  locked in here for sure. We're happy for sure.
• 23:17
  Yeah, amazing. OK.
• 23:19
  And so you, at what point did you reach that peak leadership
• 23:22
  level within your career within government?
• 23:26
  Yeah, so it was interesting. You know, I was because I've
• 23:30
  been feeling a little bit stuck and I'm like, I don't know if
• 23:33
  I'm progressing the way I would like to.
• 23:35
  And then it was after, you know, having my kids, that's when
• 23:40
  everything kind of accelerated and I literally was on mat
• 23:43
  leave. My son was under three months
• 23:45
  old. I passed the exam and interview
• 23:48
  and all this stuff. And it was, it wasn't an easy
• 23:50
  process, but it's sort of funny. Like you find this level of
• 23:53
  resilience to that, you know, with motherhood that you don't,
• 23:56
  you didn't realize you necessarily add in terms of
• 23:59
  those reserves of energy because I'm like, you know, you're dead
• 24:02
  tired, but somehow you figure out ways to do things.
• 24:05
  And so really all came together in a lot of ways in terms of
• 24:09
  like the management and executive roles, like after I
• 24:11
  had kids rather than, you know, before.
• 24:15
  But maybe it's like you're more no nonsense or you, you have
• 24:19
  clear ideas and boundaries and things like that.
• 24:21
  Perhaps. But that's when it happened.
• 24:24
  And what was, what was the exam, what were the interviews kind of
• 24:26
  fill us, fill in the gaps there. Um, it was, you know, very like
• 24:31
  situational, like how as a manager, how do you handle these
• 24:34
  various scenarios and, and things like that.
• 24:37
  So it was very, it wasn't just OK.
• 24:39
  Do you understand the department and how it works?
• 24:44
  But it was also like, as a manager, how do you handle, you
• 24:47
  know, these crises, these particular situations?
• 24:50
  And so, you know, and you're doing this over the course of a
• 24:54
  day. And you're in a management role
• 24:57
  and this was an interview and there was tests that you had to
• 25:00
  do to get to an executive level. Is that how they do it?
• 25:05
  They're every sort of level like as you're moving up there, it's
• 25:09
  not just like in the private sector, you know, and you might
• 25:13
  be able to, you know, speak to a little bit better where it might
• 25:16
  be OK. You been in this role for a
• 25:17
  while, We've identified you and we pull you.
• 25:20
  You know, we're going to pull you in in order to move on to
• 25:24
  that next role. Either you act, sometimes people
• 25:27
  will give you a chance to kind of try it out, or it's passing
• 25:31
  an interviews and exams in order to get to that next level.
• 25:34
  Are we talking written exams? It can be written, it can be
• 25:38
  oral like it depends. Yeah.
• 25:40
  So that's that's how, that's how things happen.
• 25:43
  OK, I did not know that. So you're like a grown woman and
• 25:48
  you're like, I'm basically doing this next level anyways.
• 25:50
  And they're like, OK, we have to interview for it and we're going
• 25:52
  to give you this like university exam in front of you that you
• 25:57
  have to. Quite, not quite a university
• 25:59
  exam, but it's very process driven because like government
• 26:02
  is also about like meritocracy, right?
• 26:04
  And so it's we're not just giving people roles in order to
• 26:10
  because we're, you know, someone is friends with this particular
• 26:12
  person. So it's really, do you meet this
• 26:15
  criteria? And if you do and you pass an
• 26:19
  interview or an exam, then, you know, you kind of own that box
• 26:23
  then essentially. So yeah, it's a little bit in
• 26:25
  that sense. So you could be there people who
• 26:28
  have incredible experience and capabilities but just can't
• 26:31
  pass, you know, some of these processes and exams.
• 26:34
  And yeah, so it's just a bit of a different world in that way.
• 26:38
  Oh, that's kind of strange. I don't know how I would do it.
• 26:41
  I'm not great. I'm definitely like a
• 26:43
  personality hire I would say. I'm singing as well, right?
• 26:51
  No, I know, I'm I know I am intelligent, but man, exams and
• 26:56
  like the scantrons and all that, like I didn't, I never did that
• 26:59
  well, but if like I could have a conversation with someone like I
• 27:01
  can do much better. That's so fascinating.
• 27:03
  I had no idea. So tell us what was your
• 27:07
  pregnancy postpartum? What was your whole like initial
• 27:10
  child, child rearing experience? Give us the skinny.
• 27:14
  Wow, that's, it's interesting. Like looking back, you know, I
• 27:20
  had my daughter 1st and then I, a year later I had my son like a
• 27:24
  year and a, so it was, you know, which is a little bit unusual.
• 27:28
  Most people have a little bit of a, a longer window in between.
• 27:32
  So in some ways it was unique, but it, you know, it was during
• 27:36
  the pandemic. So in some ways, and you know,
• 27:40
  and I, I, I feel maybe even a bit nervous about saying this
• 27:43
  because I know for many people, like the pandemic was incredibly
• 27:46
  difficult. You know, they lost people for
• 27:49
  our family in a lot of ways, it was it benefited us to have that
• 27:53
  closeness. And you know, at that, at that
• 27:55
  stage, my parents moved in with us.
• 27:57
  So we were in this pod. And so it was kind of this nice
• 28:02
  secure nest and in many ways for, you know, for my family.
• 28:08
  And so I would really benefited from, you know, the village that
• 28:11
  people keep talking about and are are seeking.
• 28:14
  Like I actually had it like I had if I needed to go shower, my
• 28:17
  mom could watch the baby. My husband was working remotely,
• 28:21
  so he was in the house too. So, you know, and then when I
• 28:24
  went back to work, it was remote as well.
• 28:27
  And so I wasn't doing the commutes, you know, to downtown
• 28:31
  from the suburbs, all of that. And so I was fortunate to have
• 28:35
  that, given I had, you know, my kids in pretty quick succession.
• 28:40
  Yes, good for you, good for you. Holy smokes.
• 28:43
  And you know, it's it's interesting that you say that,
• 28:46
  like I feel bad saying this. I've heard that especially on
• 28:49
  the podcast, people sharing, there's a lot of moms, parents
• 28:52
  who have had children or who had kids when they were when it was
• 28:55
  the pandemic and it seems like a pretty common experience.
• 28:58
  I felt the same way. Like, we were going through a
• 29:00
  lot with my husband's health and just all these different things
• 29:02
  were happening. And it was just, yeah, this
• 29:04
  phase of being, you know, 30 something and wanting to start
• 29:07
  your family and, and then doing that and being like, I can't
• 29:10
  imagine it any other way. Having my first child and, and
• 29:14
  did I miss having my family be able to come visit?
• 29:17
  And, and that's yes, 100%. But there was, it was so quiet
• 29:22
  and peaceful and the whole world was quiet and peaceful.
• 29:24
  So there was no FOMO. I get FOMO, you know, and there
• 29:27
  wasn't that it was, It's so interesting and two things can
• 29:30
  be true. I always say that like, you
• 29:32
  know, you can be mourning and grieving with the world for such
• 29:34
  a crappy time, but at the same time you can also relish and
• 29:38
  like the beauty of it as well. Yeah, I know for sure because
• 29:42
  there were times where I thought, oh, the kids, like in
• 29:44
  terms of socialization, but then also, well, they had each other.
• 29:47
  Like, how fortunate were they to have had that and have had so
• 29:50
  much, you know, grandma and grandpa time in addition to, you
• 29:53
  know, mommy and daddy, all of that.
• 29:55
  So I have some gratitude for that because it's not easy to go
• 29:59
  from Matt Lee back to the workplace.
• 30:02
  And like, I mean, it was really, nobody talks about what that
• 30:07
  transition really is like and how challenging it can be
• 30:10
  because my kids weren't great sleepers.
• 30:13
  And so like, I'm like, we're not sleeping through the night and I
• 30:16
  have to go to work and I have to be on, you know, and I'm
• 30:19
  managing A-Team. And this is a team that we're a
• 30:22
  former colleagues of mine, right?
• 30:24
  And some of them were, you know, really brand new to the
• 30:26
  workplace. And so like, I'm kind of brand
• 30:29
  new, you know, in this role and also trying to manage as well.
• 30:32
  So I have a lot of empathy waiting for the person that was
• 30:36
  going through that, that, you know, at that stage too.
• 30:39
  Yeah. What advice would you give
• 30:40
  yourself looking back on that transition back into, into work
• 30:44
  and people who are listening, who are experiencing that or,
• 30:47
  you know, just really feeling, feeling that because we can kind
• 30:50
  of forget, like I'm almost forgetting now what it was like,
• 30:52
  but I remember it being friggin hard.
• 30:54
  Like what advice would you have for yourself back then?
• 30:57
  Yeah, I think 1 is try to be kind to yourself because you're
• 31:01
  going to have in all likelihood really high expectations in
• 31:04
  terms of how you function and you may not function in the way
• 31:07
  that you did before. And it's really about
• 31:10
  prioritizing like what is the most important and essential
• 31:13
  thing. And if the other things are at
• 31:16
  the bottom of the list, if they don't happen, it's OK.
• 31:19
  And I, I think that could be hard if you're, you know, used
• 31:22
  to achieving and you know, you expect to operate at a
• 31:25
  particular level. And it's, um, I think one asking
• 31:30
  for help when you need it, but also recognizing that like you
• 31:33
  are different and it's also OK. And it's sort of you have to
• 31:36
  kind of navigate and negotiate that too.
• 31:39
  How did you how did you approach it as a leader as well?
• 31:41
  So, you know, how did you find that balance of being like, OK,
• 31:45
  I'm going to be honest, vulnerable, like open with my
• 31:49
  team so that they would, you know, give that back in return.
• 31:52
  But I guess without dumping on them or being that manager who's
• 31:56
  like always complaining about their kids, you know what I
• 31:59
  mean? It's like, how did you find that
• 32:01
  that that balance to continue to be a strong guiding force and
• 32:05
  leader while being honest about like that was a shitty sleep
• 32:09
  last night. Yeah, I know.
• 32:11
  I think that's a, that's a good question.
• 32:12
  One my approach in a lot of ways was just to ask them questions
• 32:18
  like how are you doing? Like what are you struggling
• 32:21
  with right now? So that we would have at least
• 32:23
  some concrete things to work on together.
• 32:26
  I found that to be, I found that to be important and regular
• 32:29
  check-ins because also to you at that time, remember when I was
• 32:32
  coming back, it was like we were working virtually.
• 32:35
  And it's hard to know how people are doing if you're not talking
• 32:39
  to them regularly. And so I think for me it was
• 32:42
  about communication as much as possible and by leaving space to
• 32:48
  hear what they need. Yeah, well, yeah.
• 32:52
  How much did you share with them about what you were
• 32:54
  experiencing? Um, I, I didn't go through
• 33:00
  everything because I think some of it might have been too much
• 33:04
  in some ways for them to, just because they're also going
• 33:07
  through and navigating, you know, the pandemic and, and work
• 33:11
  all of that. And some would say, yeah, you
• 33:13
  know, it was a rough night of sleep, that kind of thing.
• 33:15
  And I think those who were curious if they asked questions
• 33:19
  and I was happy to answer, but I also didn't want to, I, I do
• 33:24
  think it's important as a manager to that you're not
• 33:28
  dumping on your team as well, but you're, you know, you're
• 33:31
  holding space for whatever their needs might be.
• 33:33
  And I think it was more leaning on and talking with other people
• 33:37
  who had had kids themselves. So I think it's also knowing who
• 33:41
  you should be sharing some of that information with as well.
• 33:43
  So friends who have gone through it before, like, you know, you
• 33:47
  could have like some partners to kind of commiserate, but also,
• 33:52
  you know, sometimes people are also looking for like, how do I
• 33:55
  balance all of this? And so I think if someone is
• 33:58
  very open about launching that information and getting insight
• 34:01
  from you, then I think, yeah, you can, you can, you can
• 34:04
  certainly share that. But I think you just have to be
• 34:07
  mindful too, like how much is too much for that person?
• 34:10
  What can they also really handle too?
• 34:12
  That's a that's excellent, excellent advice.
• 34:15
  And you don't want to scare the next generation.
• 34:19
  There's so many wonderful things about being a parent.
• 34:21
  Like, yeah, you know what, you're going to be tired, but
• 34:24
  you find reserves somehow, right?
• 34:26
  And like everybody, in some ways, they, they, they do that.
• 34:31
  I mean, some people are more challenging than others.
• 34:33
  Maybe if they have like postpartum depression or anxiety
• 34:36
  or things like that. But I think it's always being
• 34:39
  compassionate, you know, towards yourself too.
• 34:42
  Yeah. Now, what was the tipping point
• 34:45
  for you to make that decision where you're like, I either, you
• 34:49
  know, I, I imagine there was like, I either stay in this or I
• 34:53
  just go full throttle and do something totally different.
• 34:55
  But I'm sure that that's a lot of people, a lot of your
• 34:58
  coworkers probably were like, yeah, I'm in this for the long
• 35:00
  haul. What was that point where you're
• 35:02
  like, I have a decision to make? Yeah, You know, I in terms of
• 35:08
  like making this move and this transition, I, it had been in
• 35:13
  the back of my mind for some time.
• 35:15
  I, I do think I want to do something that creative or
• 35:17
  entrepreneurial, but didn't really know what the what the
• 35:20
  what was necessarily. But I also felt like I need to
• 35:25
  try out in some ways some of these roles too, to see how I
• 35:29
  feel in them. Because I think I had some
• 35:32
  questions where I wondered, am I resisting this because like from
• 35:37
  fear or, you know, in terms of taking on the leadership roles
• 35:41
  and the title, am I resisting it because of fear or do I really
• 35:45
  want to take a different direction?
• 35:47
  And so I found it really helpful to get into those leadership
• 35:51
  roles because I could see it helped me to answer some
• 35:53
  questions for myself. To be honest, I was like, OK, I
• 35:57
  can say that I've done this. I know how it feels to be in
• 36:01
  this, in these roles. I know that I'm capable.
• 36:04
  You know, I have the talent to do this, have the judgment to do
• 36:08
  this. And so that was useful for me.
• 36:11
  And in any case, to kind of test it out and test myself too and
• 36:16
  not have that what if. I do appreciate that I don't
• 36:19
  have that what if? But I still felt that it was
• 36:22
  that knowing, right? That I think we all have had a
• 36:26
  different stages in our life, that there was something more.
• 36:31
  And so over time, you know, I, I, from time to time, I, I've
• 36:36
  worked with coaches at, you know, at a couple different
• 36:38
  intervals in my life. And I, I did find it very useful
• 36:41
  just in terms of understanding, like what is it that I bring to
• 36:43
  the table and what are my strengths?
• 36:46
  But it was like, how do I apply this and where?
• 36:48
  And it became a bit clearer just from one of the things I've
• 36:53
  always really loved is mentorship and, and I think that
• 36:58
  part of being a manager that I really liked the most was almost
• 37:01
  like human resources side, not like the the rules aspect.
• 37:07
  Not the handbook. Yeah, not the handbook, but the
• 37:10
  professional development side. Like how, like how can we put
• 37:14
  our best foot forward? I always love those
• 37:16
  conversations, providing guidance and like human centred
• 37:20
  guidance too. Like always really love those
• 37:22
  conversations. And, you know, I've sat on
• 37:25
  scholarship selection committees and manage those processes and
• 37:29
  then a formal and informal mentor, you know, for people in
• 37:31
  university as well. And it kind of crystallized at a
• 37:37
  speaking engagement that I had at one of the universities here.
• 37:40
  And I could see this level of anxiety and nervousness and
• 37:45
  apprehension, you know, about that next stage and what one
• 37:48
  does after school after they finished their studies.
• 37:52
  And I just thought, well, you know, I have all this experience
• 37:56
  and expertise and knowledge and I get like humping up with
• 38:01
  strategy and professional development.
• 38:04
  Like I know what managers want and I know how to guide.
• 38:08
  And quite naturally, I end up having, you know, people in my
• 38:13
  life that I'm mentoring all of that.
• 38:15
  And so I thought I can melt these two things together and I
• 38:19
  can be, I can be helpful providing really clear and like
• 38:25
  actionable strategy, all that sort of stuff, like not just
• 38:27
  fluff and theory. And so, yeah, it crystallized
• 38:33
  then maybe was last year. So 2024 kind of 2023-2024, it
• 38:43
  kind of became clear that, OK, this is the thing, this is the
• 38:47
  move to make. And I wasn't sure necessarily
• 38:49
  timing, but kind of behind the scenes was starting to kind of
• 38:52
  put together a little course. And yeah, I went from there.
• 38:58
  Incredible and tell everybody about the business.
• 39:02
  I love the name the why variable because a nod to it's not in
• 39:08
  your name is. It Yeah, it is absolutely.
• 39:11
  Is it not to the Y in my name? And it was previously A blog.
• 39:14
  So I've had a writing blog and I always liked that title.
• 39:19
  And I like this, the idea of it too, in connection with, you
• 39:23
  know, career and professional development, sort of finding
• 39:25
  your why and then kind of as an equation as well.
• 39:29
  I'm not a math, you know, math isn't my background or anything,
• 39:32
  but this idea of finding kind of what helps you to kind of
• 39:36
  complete your story in your picture as well.
• 39:39
  So finding that Y variable. I really, I like that idea as
• 39:44
  well. And so yeah, from there decide,
• 39:49
  OK, the focus is going to be on Gen.
• 39:51
  Z and early career and it's starting to evolve too.
• 39:54
  It's it's, you know, not just about supporting them like
• 39:57
  one-on-one strategy and workshops and things like that,
• 40:01
  but also like how do we help organizations work well
• 40:03
  together? Like how do we bridge these
• 40:06
  different generations? Everyone's working together, you
• 40:08
  know. Some organizations, you have 4
• 40:10
  different generations and I think it's easy to deride 1, you
• 40:15
  know, if you're, you know, millennial or ex or boomer
• 40:18
  deriding Gen. Z or Gen.
• 40:20
  Z deriding the older generations.
• 40:22
  And like there's opportunity there that I think to create
• 40:25
  really interesting dynamic workplaces as well.
• 40:29
  And so that's that's really where that interest comes in
• 40:32
  supporting Jimz, being kind of empathetic towards their needs,
• 40:36
  helping them to be successful and to thrive in their careers
• 40:39
  so they know what the expectations are as well as
• 40:42
  they're going into their workplaces, but also helping
• 40:46
  managers to support them too. It's incredible what you're what
• 40:50
  you're doing. And I was saying to you before
• 40:52
  we hit record just how how cool it is that you're taking the
• 40:56
  opposite approach from like what's happening on TikTok and
• 40:58
  Instagram where there's so much bullying.
• 41:00
  I feel I'm like very, very sensitive as a millennial of
• 41:03
  like how badly we're getting bullied for like what we wear
• 41:07
  and wear our parties. And like, I'm like, hey, get off
• 41:10
  our backs. But in all seriousness, like
• 41:13
  you're taking that approach of like, we're this, this happens.
• 41:16
  This is not a new thing. Like we just have more social
• 41:20
  media and we have channels and like vehicles to make fun of one
• 41:22
  another. This is always happened before
• 41:25
  the boom. Like our boomers would say that
• 41:26
  about their parents. Like, it's this is nothing new.
• 41:29
  And so I think what you're calling out is not anything to
• 41:31
  do with and correct me if I'm wrong and I think to do with
• 41:33
  like the Gen. Z population, but like this your
• 41:36
  work will apply to alpha and beta whatever Charlie went for
• 41:41
  the next one. Let's see what they come up with
• 41:46
  after that, I guess. Yeah, I know.
• 41:48
  But you know, so it's like how I love there's just something so
• 41:51
  cool about the work you're doing about like how can different
• 41:54
  generations work together? I actually worked for a woman
• 41:56
  who did reverse mentoring where she was, you know, 40 something
• 42:00
  year old woman and she had a 20 something year old mentor her
• 42:04
  and I, she's just like Lori Conqueror.
• 42:07
  Everybody seems to know her. She's incredible.
• 42:09
  And she is just that type of person who would be, you know,
• 42:12
  she's got that humility to be like, I can learn something from
• 42:15
  this person and she did it. I just, I just love that.
• 42:19
  So what would you say? Like, how can we have workplaces
• 42:22
  value and appreciate the different generations and
• 42:24
  working together and like creating, you know, magic across
• 42:27
  generations? Like what?
• 42:28
  What can we do? You know, some of it actually, I
• 42:32
  think a lot of it is about communication and connection.
• 42:36
  And I, I, I, sometimes we make things more complex than they
• 42:39
  need to be, but it's, are we having conversations about 1
• 42:44
  expectations that people are having for their workplace?
• 42:48
  And are we listening, you know, to what some of those
• 42:51
  suggestions and solutions are, You know, this assumption that
• 42:55
  there's only one way of doing things, but can we adapt in any
• 42:58
  sort of way? I know one generation is going
• 43:02
  to get it all, but what are some of the accommodations and
• 43:05
  adaptations that we can make that will actually make
• 43:08
  everybody, you know, you know, so that they thrive in the
• 43:11
  workplace so that there's a little bit more harmony.
• 43:14
  So just understanding too. Like if you're a boomer and
• 43:17
  you're like, I don't really get what it is that you're saying.
• 43:19
  Is there that conversation about, OK, what is the interest
• 43:23
  here? What's the desire?
• 43:24
  What's the need? Yeah, action piece.
• 43:29
  I think a lot of times that conversation isn't happening.
• 43:32
  People are kind of making assumptions and we need to dive
• 43:36
  in a little bit more into that conversation.
• 43:38
  I had a blog post on my old website when I was starting
• 43:42
  coaching when I was still that was my coaching was my side
• 43:45
  hustle. And I wrote this kind of fiery
• 43:47
  blog post. I think I probably unpublished
• 43:49
  it. I'm gonna have to look back.
• 43:51
  And it was after seeing I was at an event and I was walking
• 43:55
  through to go to the bathroom and I walked past this woman's
• 43:57
  desk that and I knew the woman and I just happened to walk past
• 44:00
  her desk and there was this book sitting on her desk.
• 44:02
  And the title was something to the effect of how to work with
• 44:07
  millennials and the byline. I forget what the byline was,
• 44:10
  but it was kind of a negative connotation, like the whole
• 44:13
  thing. I remember just getting the ink
• 44:14
  from this book and then I look and then I just never looked at
• 44:17
  that woman the same because I was like, I kind of got
• 44:20
  frustrated by seeing that. Like a really triggered me
• 44:23
  because I was like, why do you like just talk to the person,
• 44:27
  talk to the millennial. Like it drove me crazy that she
• 44:30
  was reading this book that was written who know by who knows
• 44:33
  who. Probably not a millennial,
• 44:35
  probably a boomer being like, oh, this is how you crack them.
• 44:39
  Like this is how you work with this annoying entitled
• 44:41
  generation who's never gone through anything.
• 44:43
  I don't know. There was something so weird.
• 44:44
  So I completely agree with you in that building connection,
• 44:48
  having conversations, I think like conversations that are not
• 44:52
  related to work too. Like I would end up in that when
• 44:55
  I was in advertising, I'd end up in this managed Tony Johnson's
• 44:59
  office. He was 40 years my senior and he
• 45:01
  would be telling me crazy stories about growing up in
• 45:04
  England and we would just end up having these 1520 minute
• 45:07
  conversations about nothing. But I honestly do think that
• 45:10
  that when push came to shove and I'd be supporting him on a new
• 45:13
  business venture. We, we just had this connection
• 45:16
  and we had this, this appreciation for one another
• 45:19
  because we, I was curious and open to hearing his stories.
• 45:22
  He, he knew that I was someone who was willing to listen, you
• 45:26
  know, to and I think it's, I don't know for me, it's, it's
• 45:29
  that. What do you think about that?
• 45:32
  I absolutely agree. And you know, one of the things
• 45:35
  I facilitated a workshop last week and I, I did talk a little
• 45:39
  bit about sort of generational dynamics.
• 45:40
  It was a group of grad students who are many of whom are, are
• 45:44
  soon going to make that transition.
• 45:46
  And the point I kept, you know, coming to in addition to all the
• 45:50
  strategy and all of this, it's like it's about relationships
• 45:52
  and connection. It's about finding allies.
• 45:55
  And it's not just people who are at the top.
• 45:57
  I think sometimes we think, oh, I gotta, you know, make a
• 46:00
  connection with the CEO or founder, but like throughout the
• 46:03
  organization that you're going to be working in, who are the
• 46:05
  people that you can connect with?
• 46:07
  Because it's not just about the work that you do on a day-to-day
• 46:10
  basis. It's like, do people know you?
• 46:14
  Are they going to root for you? Are they going to support you?
• 46:17
  And it's like, I don't want to talk about it like a
• 46:18
  transactional sort of way, but it's like what you're talking
• 46:21
  about. It's relationship.
• 46:22
  Yes. It's like a willingness to learn
• 46:24
  from one another. I'm sure he learned a lot from
• 46:26
  you as well. You know, in those
• 46:28
  conversations. It is a two way St. and I think
• 46:31
  remembering, remembering that. And there are lots of different
• 46:34
  ways that teams can come together.
• 46:36
  It's not just the annual retreat where you look at the mission
• 46:40
  and priorities for the year, but like, you know, and you know,
• 46:44
  it's I think there's a lot of pressure on leaders to create
• 46:47
  these environments, but it's not just their job.
• 46:50
  You know, it's everyone in the organization.
• 46:51
  Are you creating a culture where people are actually talking to
• 46:55
  one another? Because that would resolve so
• 46:57
  many of the issues. I mean, we make it generational,
• 47:00
  but a lot of it at the end of the day is just are we talking
• 47:03
  and why one another? Are we, you know, drawing our,
• 47:07
  are we, you know, making assumptions about what it is
• 47:10
  that other people want? Are we asking like are we asking
• 47:13
  questions? Yes.
• 47:15
  Yes. OK.
• 47:17
  I have to ask you the contentious question around in
• 47:22
  office versus virtual. Yeah, is it?
• 47:27
  No, I'm just going to leave it there.
• 47:29
  What are what are your feelings? What are your feelings?
• 47:33
  I think that, you know, from a career standpoint, I think if
• 47:37
  you're new to the workplace, I think it's really helpful to be
• 47:40
  in person. I don't think it has to be every
• 47:43
  day like I'm not because you need to be in the office five
• 47:45
  days a week in order to understand your job.
• 47:47
  I don't think so. But again, it's about connection
• 47:51
  and it's, it's, it's hard to do that solely online.
• 47:55
  It can be done if it's done purposefully.
• 47:58
  But I think what needs to happen, it's not just you need
• 48:01
  to be in the office that you can be a better worker.
• 48:04
  Yeah. Are we making that in office
• 48:07
  experience strategic? Like so if we are in the office,
• 48:12
  is it a situation where half the cubes are empty?
• 48:16
  Because like, that's not, that's not helping you and your career
• 48:19
  growth if you're new, if there's nobody around, but you know, are
• 48:23
  there connection days where everyone's there And like, we're
• 48:26
  having meetings and we're talking to one another and we're
• 48:28
  trying to move files together and we're brainstorming.
• 48:31
  Like if I have to come into the office for that, I'm like, I'm,
• 48:34
  I'm in for that. But if it's to sit by myself and
• 48:38
  like, you know, only a third of the team is there, that's not
• 48:42
  helpful, That's not constructive.
• 48:43
  So I think being around other human beings is so like it is
• 48:49
  really helpful and really useful and, and, and constructive, but
• 48:54
  it needs to be done the right way.
• 48:56
  So it's just yes, in the office, but it's and there are other
• 49:01
  conditions that I think should be met to.
• 49:03
  Not just for the sake, for the sake of it.
• 49:05
  I think that's like so mind boggling.
• 49:08
  The trends that I'm hearing and the return to office order
• 49:11
  orders, I'm going to call them orders because they feel like
• 49:13
  that. They feel very Yeah, like
• 49:16
  dictator vibes. There's something.
• 49:18
  Yeah there. There's just so much that I'm
• 49:20
  hearing right now. It's just back in Ontario,
• 49:22
  catching up with all sorts of friends and family.
• 49:24
  And my God, that conversation came up time and time again.
• 49:27
  And I did not over, you know, 5 different discussions with
• 49:31
  people saying that there's these, like, crazy mandates of
• 49:33
  returning to the office. Not one of them really felt like
• 49:36
  it was intentional. There was discussions.
• 49:39
  I couldn't even believe this. And it makes sense.
• 49:41
  There was discussions around governments impacting the return
• 49:45
  borders because they wanted people to be in the cities, in
• 49:48
  the big cities. There was the organizations
• 49:51
  where they felt like they were spending too much money on real
• 49:52
  estate. So let's get some bum in seats
• 49:54
  because like of the real estate impact, I'm like, that doesn't
• 49:57
  even make sense. That's not going to impact your
• 49:59
  bottom line if you're not going to do it like Yahima saying
• 50:02
  where you bring people in eight days a month, you have to be in
• 50:06
  those eight days a month with your intact team or you know, or
• 50:10
  everybody in the office or whatever.
• 50:11
  It is staggered, but like make it intentional.
• 50:13
  Oh my gosh, I could go off. I'm not even in corporate
• 50:15
  anymore, but given how much I'm speaking to people, especially
• 50:18
  parents, Oh my God. If I was in corporate, I'm a
• 50:22
  parent of two young kids and I'm being told I have to go in three
• 50:26
  or four days a week. And like you said, I might
• 50:29
  actually have opposite days that I go in from people in my team.
• 50:31
  I'm still on Zoom calls. Yeah, I'm.
• 50:33
  I'm getting fired up. This is like.
• 50:36
  No, I feel the same way because it's like, OK, you're in the
• 50:40
  office, but you're functioning in the exact same way that you
• 50:42
  do at home. Exactly.
• 50:44
  What was the point of, like, going on nice shoes and making a
• 50:48
  lunch? Like there's administrative
• 50:50
  aspect of going into work and like, yeah, it's like, yeah,
• 50:52
  privileged problems, right? Like, yeah, I know.
• 50:55
  But I think it's like, if it's intentional, it's not just, I
• 51:00
  think what I find frustrating, and so I, I empathize with other
• 51:03
  people too, is that, you know, we're saying, go back to the
• 51:06
  workplace because we learned nothing from the pandemic.
• 51:09
  Like look at how quickly we were able to improvise and bring, you
• 51:13
  know, use these innovative tools in order to stay connected.
• 51:17
  But we're just going to go back to what we did before when we
• 51:20
  live in a world of AI this and like all these different
• 51:23
  technological transformations. And we're just going to go and
• 51:26
  do things the exact same way. And then we're going to wonder
• 51:29
  why people aren't engaged and they're frustrated and rather
• 51:32
  than they're, they're clocking in, but they're not actually
• 51:34
  there. Yes, Ah, we could.
• 51:38
  We could go off forever. Yahima, it has been such a
• 51:43
  pleasure hearing your story. And I just know that there's
• 51:46
  gonna be so many people really resonating with that feeling of
• 51:48
  being like, oh, you know, there's something more like
• 51:52
  I've. I tried the thing I did the
• 51:53
  leadership thing. I climbed the ladder.
• 51:55
  I got there and what's next? And I love that.
• 51:59
  Like, I actually love that. Our conversation wasn't really
• 52:01
  related to your kids. You were just sharing from like
• 52:05
  a mom's perspective of like a working person who was like,
• 52:08
  yeah, I'm just going to go make a change.
• 52:11
  And it really felt like it was because like you said, like
• 52:13
  you're like, you weren't like in your power and your soul work
• 52:16
  and you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this change.
• 52:18
  And of course the kids do impact things.
• 52:20
  But it was a really cool. I really loved hearing just how
• 52:23
  how you navigated that. There's so many more questions I
• 52:25
  want to ask you, but I want to be respectful of your time.
• 52:27
  Now we do have an audience of bad ass parents who are in the
• 52:32
  workforce. They are in organizations where
• 52:35
  they're like, wow, we could really use more of yahima like
• 52:40
  vibe. How could this audience reach
• 52:43
  out to you, use you as a resource?
• 52:46
  You mentioned workshops like tell us all the things like how
• 52:48
  can we? How can we get more of you?
• 52:50
  Yeah, absolutely. So my websites, the Y
• 52:53
  variable.com, so you can reach out to me there.
• 52:56
  I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, all of that.
• 52:59
  Good thing, good job. Getting the Y variable.com, I
• 53:01
  feel like that's like that's a big get.
• 53:04
  Yes, I I think it's helpful that I've had it for a little while
• 53:07
  and.ca, you know, I have, I have both of those.
• 53:12
  But yeah, I do, you know, career foundations workshops.
• 53:15
  So as people are bringing in staff and onboarding teams would
• 53:19
  really help, you know, kind of the untold rules of the
• 53:21
  workplace that, you know, sometimes managers aren't
• 53:24
  sharing, but they really should, you know, with their teams.
• 53:28
  I've got a sort of bridging generations, you know, workshop
• 53:32
  as well. So ways that I there, you know,
• 53:35
  a few different ways I can help just in terms of building that
• 53:37
  communication as well. So you got harmony in the team
• 53:42
  that that's really the goal is, you know, workforces where
• 53:45
  people, you know, they go into the office and they feel like
• 53:48
  they can succeed and not just kind of survive while while
• 53:51
  they're there. So yeah, they're shops
• 53:54
  one-on-one coaching to help management teams as well as
• 53:58
  their early career professionals.
• 54:00
  And I have an online course too. So if someone wants to do a
• 54:02
  self-paced course, it's called career school your first 30
• 54:06
  days. And so that also supports people
• 54:09
  are making that move and that transition from their studies to
• 54:12
  the workplace. I think this could be really
• 54:14
  valuable for those who were coming back to the workforce
• 54:16
  after a good amount of time off. I was actually speaking with a
• 54:19
  woman recently and she's out of the workforce for about 20
• 54:21
  years. And that could be a really nice
• 54:23
  re entry to just like allow yourself to be like, OK, I want
• 54:26
  to be a student again. I want to be new.
• 54:28
  You know, even though she had a huge career before, I could
• 54:30
  actually see so much value in that.
• 54:32
  So I'm going to, I'm going to have a think about anyone that
• 54:34
  comes my way. I can put them in touch with
• 54:37
  you. I think you would be fantastic
• 54:38
  at that. Wow.
• 54:40
  Congratulations for everything you've accomplished.
• 54:42
  Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate the support.
• 54:45
  Thank you. Thank you so much for listening
• 54:49
  and since you made it this far, please share this episode with a
• 54:52
  fellow parent who you love, respect, and want to support.
• 54:57
  And while you're at it, hit me up on Instagram at All Figured
• 55:00
  Out. Andrea, I would love to meet you
• 55:02
  and hear what you are trying to figure out these days.