Latest / SkyTalkDoc / E275 Cold Plunge Extreme - Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer Edition
Transcript
- Dr. Michaela: Jason, welcome to the Sky Talk Doc podcast. I think the entire world knows that I pretty much geek out on all things Coast Guard. And I'm like Jason: It's awesome. Dr. Michaela: so excited to have you here today. You are a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, and now you are a rescue specialist. And I'm just really excited to hear like how you got into what you do. Tell me a little bit about your upbringing, your backstory. I just love it. And I'm super excited that I get to visit with you. Jason: Well, thank you so much for having me here. That's the first off. So I appreciate it. Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: so yeah, Coast Guard, Rescue Swimmer, they were all numbered. so we all once we graduate, everybody has their own number. I just so happen to be number 500, which is just yes. Uh-uh. That's it. Like. Dr. Michaela: Does it live with you forever? Like you're you nobody gets to take your number? That's it. Does that mean you're the five hundredth one ever? my God, you're like Ashton Kucher right now. Like you're you're you're the guardian. It's so cool. Jason: Yes. Ever. Yes. I maybe right in the middle. no, you know, I'll take that. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Dr. Michaela: I love it so much. So so tell me, I I mean I just have to ask real quick, did you like is the movie I'm sure you've seen it, The Guardian, is it's is it like accurate? I mean, is it right or is it totally not? Jason: So here's what I will say. They did an excellent job with portraying the rescue swimmer rate in the Coast Guard. Like they did a really good job. There are a handful of things were like, well, we didn't do that. But Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: yeah, for the most part, it was like it they did a really good job. And you know what? Dr. Michaela: They took they took a little movie cinematic liberties, but other than that it was pretty spot on. So cool. Jason: Yes. Yes. Yes, it was. It it was actually some of my friends that are actually rescue swimmers were in the movie there. Butch Flife, John Hall, Bob Watson, Josh Mitchell Tree, like those guys were there as like liaison people to be like, this is kind of what we would Dr. Michaela: Yeah, yeah. Jason: do. So that's where the like reality is in the movie, which is cool. So but yeah. Dr. Michaela: my gosh, I love that so much. So I don't want to age you by asking what number they're up to now. I mean, I just I can't even imagine how many Jason: Ha ha. Dr. Michaela: of you there are, but that is so cool. Jason: You can age me. It's okay. they from what I understand, they are around one thousand one hundred and twenty five ish as of today. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: That's crazy. so I definitely want to ask about some of like your your most favorite and your and your most sad that you can remember, if I can put you on the spot with that. But before that, I just want to tell you. So there was this scene from the movie where Costner says that he always chews gum to keep the ocean out, the salt water out. So, Jason: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Michaela: like one of my first flights with with Commander, he was like, Why are you smacking on that gun like that? Like in the in the headset, yeah, I'm like I said, I'm keeping the salt water out. And he's like, what are you talking about? So he had never seen the movie. I was like, You gotta watch the movie. So we watched the movie, and then he was like, so you were just nervous as fuck. I'm like, Yeah, pretty much. Like that's it. Anyway, okay, so so tell me, what are Jason: that's great. Dr. Michaela: what are some of your your most favorite memories that you've got from this experience? Jason: So can I expand a little bit further on that? Like, all Dr. Michaela: Please, yes. Jason: right, cool. So I did twelve years in the Coast Guard and I had some amazing rescues and good and bad while I was in. And then I got out of the Coast Guard and did civilian side. So I'm that's where the rescue specialist kinda comes in because I end up like right now I'm a paramedic in the back. I can hoist, so I'm a hoist operator, and then anything else you can do out of the back of the hilo, I can do it or teach it. Fast rope, long line, short haul, whatever. Just that's part of it. So because I've been doing it for so long, there are some that just really stand out to me that are just kind of fun and others that are like straight up tragic. So I remember my my very first one, it was it was gnarly. It I Remember going out of this boat, like twenty foot waves, middle of the Bering Sea, snow blowing sideways. I get out of the boat, the guy's like every time he passes out, he stops breathing. And I'm like, Well, that's not good, right? So my biggest thing about that whole rescue, which was gnarly, is the flight mechanic, the hoist operator, the back of the helicopter, he hooks me up the hoist hook and I give him a thumbs up and he looks leans down and me said, Are you scared? And I looked at him and I kind of looked down at the boat in this twenty foot waves and I'm like, No. And he's like, You should be. And then he starts lowering me out. And I'm like, What the heck? Yeah. Dr. Michaela: no. Jason: So, everything worked out. Like, we got the guy on board and they took me off and we went back to St. Paul Island, met a life flight crew and ended up spending the night there. And but that was Dr. Michaela: So I I have to just back up a second for those people who might not even Jason: Sure. Dr. Michaela: fully comprehend what just happened. So literally, Jason: Ha ha. Dr. Michaela: is it daytime or nighttime? Please tell me it's at least daytime. my. Jason: No, it is we launched out at I think eleven at night. We got on scene at about four in the morning. So yeah, pitch black. No. Dr. Michaela: It never happens in the daytime. It's always like that's how every bad movie starts, too, right? Like, why do we want to do this at three o'clock? Jason: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Michaela: so okay. So, so you go out there, it's pitch black, it is frigid. I mean, it's it's stupid cold. It's like n probably negative Jason: Yes. Dr. Michaela: something outside. Like you said, blowing sideways. Jason: Yes. Dr. Michaela: And there is a, I presume, sinking craft in the middle of the Bering Sea in 20 foot waves. Jason: So actually this one was just a Medevac. So the guy on deck was whatever was wrong with him. It just the boat called up and said every time he passes out he stops breathing. So that's why they called us and said, Let's get him off. Because they were round numbers, I think it was twelve hours to get to shore and they weren't thinking they didn't think he was gonna live to make it to shore 'cause the weather was so bad. So yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: So you're in a helicopter, which I mean, I tried to pee in my cub on the air race, and that was not successful. Jason: Ha ha Dr. Michaela: I literally peed all down my leg, all down the seat. Like so, you know, you're you're in a helicopter. This is not exactly like a, you know, stationary piece of equipment. And they're lowering you down. I mean, the ocean is ginormous. It doesn't matter how big the boat is, it's tiny, right? And your job is to try to land on this deck while swaying on a hoist Jason: Yes. Yes. Dr. Michaela: in the snow in the dark. I mean, just Jason: Yes. Dr. Michaela: that alone gave me like I would have a heart attack on the way down. I would just croak out, it would be over. Like they would pull me back up and be like, Well, we're gonna take her to shore, try to resuscitate. Wow. Jason: And the funny part is like you say this and I get all excited about it. I'm like, I just wanna go do it again right now. I'm all pumped up. Like, Let's go Dr. Michaela: no. No. So when w so when we were on your podcast not that long ago, I was talking about the adrenaline, right? And how the average person just doesn't operate at the same baseline that you have. And thank goodness that there are people like you and commend you, that can really Jason: Thank you. Dr. Michaela: go into that laser focused space when when you're in that environment and do exactly what you've been trained to do, which is so impressive. I mean, it really is. Thank goodness. I wonder what you would have been like if you were in the fourteen hundreds. Like I you know what I mean? Like I wonder Jason: I I that's a good question. I d maybe a warrior. Probably not. I Yeah, why not? I might have been like I'd be standing behind like Dr. Michaela: You would have been a warrior. Yeah. You would have been like Braveheart, like Mel Gibson in Braveheart. That's what you would have been. Jason: the like there's all the like the main guys. I'd be like the guy, like the the that guy way over there. Okay, I got you guys. Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Yeah. After you all drop dead, I'll come in and do my thing. Jason: Yeah yeah. Dr. Michaela: Yeah, right. That's awesome. Jason: Or or I'm the first guy to go, Let's go and then I get killed first. Son of a gun. Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Charge, right? That's what I picture. That's so cool. So okay, so so what was the outcome of this fella? Did he make it? Jason: Great question. I actually have no idea. this is like first responder, Coast Guard slash medic slash whatever. Everybody's a first responder. Our job, pick up, get out of harm's way, bring to an area, drop off, and then we go back to work. And it was at that point we actually so that specific day we were grounded. We weren't allowed to leave, so we had to go get our proper air crew rest before we could fly again. But We literally landed, dropped him off to a life flight aircraft. There were two nurses that were taking him to Anchorage. I have no idea. As far as I know, he was totally fine. And that's what I'm gonna live with is say we did everything we could and 'cause he was awake and alert when I dropped him off to the the life flight. So Dr. Michaela: You know, in this podcast we talk so much about mental health, self-help, and you know, health and wellness. And this is this is such an important part that people don't realize is sometimes you just don't know the outcome. And if you do, it's usually not a good one, right? Like usually if if if you know what the outcome was, it's because they didn't make it. How do you process this stuff? And I know you have a great spouse. I think you should plug her at this point for supporting your n you're crazy. but yeah, talk to me about that part. Jason: So I will absolutely plug my wife. Melissa is absolutely amazing and she listens to everything that I go through. I don't think it's nearly as tense now. And I I so take f this for the what it's worth, right? So when I was first getting into it, I didn't know what I didn't know and I didn't know how to process everything and then all of a sudden like stuff started happening, and you're seeing weird stuff and and next thing you know, you're like talking to the guys and you're in the shop and And now you're like you're in like a therapy session, but it's just the boys you're with and you're kicking back some brews and you're like Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Yeah. Jason: but you're talking about it, you're like, Man, it's some stuff still doesn't sit well with me, this that and the other thing. And and what what I think people didn't understand at the time was like or I didn't understand at the time was that I'm having this full on therapy session just with the boys. so now yeah. Dr. Michaela: Right. The camaraderie of people that have been through it with you and or can process the events. That's huge. Jason: Yeah. So now today, like knowing what I know now, I can go do something that's kind of gnarly or whatever. I can have a conversation with the people that I know understand it because they were they either do it or they've been in something similar. And then I can process it with them and then I can take it home to my wife and say, Yeah, this is what happened, but she doesn't get she doesn't need to get that the intense part. She just needs to understand what Dr. Michaela: She gets diffused. Right. So Jason: I just went through. Yeah. Which is good for me because I get to talk to people that relate one hundred percent to what I do. And then she gets to understand, okay, he's dealt with something and I can be there to support him in X, Y, and Z. So it's that's that's how it works and it's it's been brilliant for us. Dr. Michaela: I love that. You're describing that you get to process the intensity with people that can understand and relate and have that kind of sense of community, but then you come home to a partner, a diffused version that you can kind of share and lean into the softer side of the of that process. I love that. That sounds so beautiful. I think you have something Jason: Yeah. Thanks. Dr. Michaela: really unique that probably a lot of people wish that they had. So that that's really fantastic that you found the right person and I can only imagine, I mean, I don't know if you were with her when you were moving around to the different places. As I understand it, there are a handful of Coast Guard facilities and then you kind of are stationed there for a period of time, right? Is that how it works? Jason: Yes. Yeah, so it's kind of standard military, like defined military, right? we are a branch of the military services, it's just under Homeland Secur yeah, Homeland Security. And you'll do like three or four years at a unit and then move to the next unit. So and there's always little caveats, but average is about four years per unit. So Dr. Michaela: So I I do want to hear about the the one that stuck with you as the hardest. But before we do that, I gotta ask a couple of questions. So so talk to me about your skills and training as a swimmer. You must have had some gifted talents there, right? To even go do this. And then talk to me about your upbringing, where you're like, yeah, I think I want to go jump out of helicopters in the middle of the Bering Sea in the snow. Like I I just really wanna understand how you Jason: All right. Dr. Michaela: were brought up. Talk to me about that. Jason: So I born and raised in Massachusetts, mom, dad, like great like I had a great childhood. It was amazing. We we had our house and then there was a cottage on the lake and my grandparents had another house on the lake. So my summertime was like on the lake. Every day, ever like all day. They tried to get me out of the water. No, I didn't want to. Like they just it picked picking in it. Yeah, a hundred percent. Mass hole through and through. Dr. Michaela: So you're a New Englander. You're a Moxie and red hot dogs guy. no. Jason: Yeah, let's go. Dr. Michaela: You know the Commander's also a New Englander. Yeah, but Maine. Okay. Okay. Jason: Nice! It's a great thing. It's a great thing to be. Whatever. We all all that area follows pretty much the same sports teams. Totally fine. Totally fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wicked awesome out there, let me tell ya. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Just over there. Call that guy over there. Yeah, he gotcha. Dr. Michaela: You know your people, you got it. Yeah, the cockies and everything can be fixed with the moxie. Yeah. Commander also Jason: that's funny. Dr. Michaela: talked him his voice out of the accent, but it was the minute he goes back home, it's 100%. There is no turning it off. Jason: Yeah. It's you know what? It's crazy it happens like that. I so part of the reason I don't have an accent, I've narrowed it down to the fact it's radio calls on through the aircraft. Because if you are not clear, bold, and concise, yeah, if Dr. Michaela: Yep. Yep, that's what he says too. Yep. Jason: you're they don't understand, people don't understand like, yeah, it's wicked awesome about that. Yeah, yeah, Dr. Michaela: Yeah. You had to learn unlearn it. Jason: because they come back on the radio like What did you say? Was that English? Like aw man. That's pretty fun. Dr. Michaela: Yep. Yep. He went up to Alaska too for his b you know start straight out the gate and said he quickly learned how to untalk that way. Un speak it. Yep. Yep. Yep. Like they've got room to talk, but whatever. Jason: Yeah, yeah. That's where I learned it, like up in Alaska. Hilarious. yeah. Yeah, they they just ridicule you up there. It's fine. It's fine. But yeah. So Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's great. But yeah, so pretty much like I said, grew up on the lake in sports and outdoorsy and loved all of it. when I graduated high school, it was either go to college, work with my dad, or join the military. So I was like, you what? I had an uncle that was in the Coast Guard. He he brought me down. I got to see a couple things. Let's join the Coast Guard. And then they show this video on like these are all the jobs in the Coast Guard. You can be a gunner's mate and shoot guns. You can be a boats mate, drive boats, Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: you can be a helicopter rescue swimmer and jump out of helicopters. I was like, sold. That how do I do that? So that's that's yeah. Yeah. Live and die by Dr. Michaela: That's it. Check. Awesome. I love that. Jason: the adrenaline. So yeah, it's good. Dr. Michaela: That is so cool. And then what about the swimming part? I mean, you must have made it, you must have had the thing. Jason: I I'm just comfortable in the water and I think that's a lot of it. Now when I went through swimmer school, it's different than today. Today, like the I'm I wanna say the the young men that go through swimmer school today, they're absolute beasts. They're I mean they're they're crushing times. Like the stuff that I was doing in in swimmer school, those guys had they'd bury me right now. even then I was like, just yeah, beasts. Dr. Michaela: It's ba Babe Ruth with the wood bat, right? Like versus today. Yeah. MLV. Yeah. Yeah. Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Like and the gear and equipment that they're using, the training techniques they're using, everything is very dialed in. It's it's an amazing system to see. and if you can pass it, if you can mentally if you have the mental fortitude to pass rescue summer school, you are gonna be at your absolute best. And I was told this like probably later in my career is that we As Coast Guard rescue swimmers, we're professional athletes. We're just not paid for it. And when Dr. Michaela: Yep. Jason: you think back of like everything that we do, the swimming, the weightlifting, the running, the training, we're always training for the next rescue in the ocean based on a manual that says we have to be able to last thirty minutes in heavy seas. Well, they don't define heavy seas. They just say you better last thirty minutes in heavy seas. Well, I've been in Twenty-foot waves. They're gnarly waves. And you gotta be able to last 30 minutes, like, yeah. Dr. Michaela: That's Olympian level. That's Olympian level. And Jason: Well I got something that helps me float for a little bit, so it's fine. Dr. Michaela: Still d you now you sound like me. It's cool. It's okay. It's okay. It's it's all it's it's probably fine. So no, Jason: It's fine, it's fine. It's totally fine. It's fine, fine. Dr. Michaela: but literally like I think that that's what a lot of people don't realize when they're calling on you, right? Is that not only do you do you have to train at that level for any time, right? There's no it Olympians know they're gonna go do the lap at ten o'clock on a Monday. And they're gonna have a really good shit before they go and they're gonna eat all the right foods, right? Like, I mean, this is serious. Like you, on the other Jason: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: hand, have to be ready in the middle of your dead of sleep to get up and go do this. I mean, that just takes a certain level of mental fortitude, like you're saying, that it's just really impressive. I mean, if you really think about it, to be on like that and and have to be intentionally reactive all the time. Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: is really impressive. That that that is just incredible. so talk to me. Jason: thank you. We we actually talk about hold on, I I gotta tell you something kind of funny with that. Is it it's it's funny because we we talk about it quite a bit like in in the shop, like when we're getting ready to go out to a rescue, like everybody warms up prior to going to the gym, prior to lifting weights, prior to getting in the pool. You know, you do your warm up lap. So Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: for us in the back of the helicopter, we're like, Well, where are we gonna warm up? So most of us will start banging out like reps of like ten or fifteen or twenty-five push ups. Just to warm the shoulders up before you're going down into the water. So kind of a trip. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: no kidding. I mean I get a stomach cramp if I eat before I swim. Like Jason: Yeah. Yeah. That that's been talked about, like, well, maybe I'll just stick my finger down my throat and throw everything up so I don't cramp up. I Dr. Michaela: Yes, my gosh. Jason: I did not say that. That's not something I'm gonna do, but I've heard that. I'm like, yeah, that's you, bro. I'll just go easy. Dr. Michaela: You know what's funny? When I was going to do so for for the the psychotherapy test to become a therapist, you have to undergo like this rigorous. You do all your training. It's eighteen hundred hours of client contact. And then you gotta go take this test. And it's like a four-hour test and you gotta sit in front of people and all this stuff. And my supervisor's advice was literally this was her advice, do jumping jacks in the parking lot before you go in. I'm like, what the fuck is that gonna do? Like, how is that gonna help me? What are you talking about? Do jumping jacks. Jason: Love it. Love it. Dr. Michaela: But there actually is some like neurological reasoning for why that works because it expends the adrenaline and then brings your baseline down. So I'm like literally in the parking lot doing jump and jacks. So I can Jason: Ha ha. Dr. Michaela: kind of see the push ups before you go. Like it makes sense. Maybe for more reasons than you don't. That's right. Jason: Gotta get warmed up. Yeah, I gotta loosen the and the older you get, the like the more you need like a loose up. Like, hey, can I get like a massage real quick? You rub my shoulders. Dr. Michaela: Yes. That's awesome. That's awesome. So so there's a secret that a lot of people don't know, which is that you guys are also seamstresses. Like talk to me about Okay. Yep. Yep. Talk to me about that. Jason: It's called Tailors, okay. Yeah. So one of the cool things, and and I don't I don't know if they do it as much anymore, but the like let's go the history of the rescue swimmer program and whatnot. So originally it was called ASM, Aviation Survival Men. And this is before the rescue swimmers were actually rescue swimmers, they were parachute riggers and they were taking care of all the survival equipment in the shop. So They're making bags and equipment for whatever is gonna get deployed out of the back of the the C one thirty or whatever aircraft they have, or you're gonna we gotta make a SAR board, which is where all the pockets are for all your SAR equipment inside the helicopters. So Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: we would make that. So we had to go through a portion of training where you had to be able to learn how to sew. So we would do commercial machines like an industrial machine. From a regular industrial machine to a long arm to then which is basically the same thing, it's just long arm. Or what's known as a class seven, which punches through like some serious material. it can actually punch through a quarter, which is kind of cool to see. Make sure you have safety glasses on when that happens. But Dr. Michaela: wow. Yeah. Jason: yeah, it's so it's that's a big portion of what we do. And it's all to maintain gear. And to build stuff for the aircraft to drop out to whatever it is. So yeah. Dr. Michaela: You know, I wonder if that ties into like wartime, right? Like 'cause that's how you guys started, is it was to help the the soldiers that were in the war. That's how the Coast Guard kind of came to be initially, right? It was a rescue department of the military. Is that is that true? Jason: It's so we had the the revenue s gosh, you're gonna you're asking me my history. We had there was a whole bunch of services that came together. So there was a lighthouse service, there was the something else, and then the Dr. Michaela: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jason: the cutter revenue service, and then Congress said, Hey, let's make one, the Coast Guard. And that's yeah. So yeah, it's neat. Dr. Michaela: That's so cool. You know, it's interesting. I living where I grew up, there's a big culture of rock climbers. And I had started Jason: Nice. Dr. Michaela: following Alex Honnold, who is notorious for hiking L Cap or climbing L Cap with an nothing but his bare hands. He had no gear. And I had been therapizing people. I had clients who were in the rock climbing world and they were coming to see me and they were connected with him and they were saying he's gonna do this big climb, like this is this is like epic level. So I had been privy before anything was ever recorded, before anything was ever published, like all that stuff to the fact that this guy was gonna be doing this. Like you gotta follow him on social. It's a really cool thing. It's a big thing in our world. So I followed him on social and I'll never forget like everyone was waiting for the time. So Jimmy, his photographer and videographer would go out to El Cap, sit hidden in the woods with his camera when he thought he was gonna do it because Alex didn't want any camera pressure, nothing like that. Like he backed out of doing it a couple different times because he wasn't in the right headspace mentally. And I'll never forget on his socials, he posted a picture of his hands with powder on it and he said, inspecting my gear. And I was like, shit, he's gonna do it. was like Jason: Woohoo. Dr. Michaela: Gonna do it. And then sure enough, I mean, the story is he did it, he made it. He's the only human ever to do it. It's called a free solo. And no gear except his hand and his mind. That was it. well, he had Jason: Wow. Dr. Michaela: his shoes on. And then fast forward, so after this happened, I had his wife Sonny on this podcast. And then I ended up attending their Out Wild event and getting to spend some time with him. And I actually got to see him climb one of the one of the walls by my house. And he was like poetry in motion. Like this guy, it is just natural to him. You know, the world's like, my God, what a reckless, crazy maniac. They've actually done fMRIs on his brain now. And they show that he doesn't at all see it like the rest of us would perceive it because it's so trained and because it's so natural to him. But the way he places his hands and moves up the wall, it's like water. I mean, it's glorious. I would imagine if we were to throw a bunch of Coast Guard swimmers into FMRI machines, we would probably find similar connections, right? Like you've got this talent. Jason: yeah, maybe. Dr. Michaela: Please tell me it's true. Because Jason: You know what? It absolutely is true, one hundred percent. Dr. Michaela: if I ever need your ass to save me, I'd like to know that that is true. Yeah, yeah. Jason: It's hundred percent true. Hundred percent true. Dr. Michaela: So without sharing any kind of private information, I one of one of my more interesting clients that I've worked with was involved in Katrina. We'll leave it that vague. And There were some pretty horrific stories that were coming out of that. were you there? Can you share? Do you have any firsthand experience of maybe we could even broaden it and say some of these natural disasters that affect like a lot of people on a global level? Like share with that. share some of that. Jason: So I was not at Katrina and but again the brotherhood of the rescue swimmer community is very small. So I I've had an opportunity to to interview quite a few people that went down to Katrina. So the stories that came out of there are they're incredible. like guys being threatened with guns, you know, like I'm I'm Dr. Michaela: Mm-hmm. Jason: gonna be the next one on the helicopter. One of my buddies actually when that happened, he grabbed the gun, punched the guy in the face, threw the gun in the water and said, Anybody else not want to go? And everybody's like, and they're all like backing up. Like, okay, now that we've got that established, let's let's move forward. And the guy's going into buildings and like actually this one kind of funny story, not funny story. Again, dark humor. That's what we have is dark humor. That's Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: why this is funny to me, but it's not funny at the time. Is guy goes down into Doesn't realize it, but he goes into a morgue. And now there's like yeah, he's like, Why? this is so bad. There's all these people that are that are already dead. Dr. Michaela: They're all floating, they're all dead. Jason: Yeah. But it's a straight up because he gets bumped by like a casket or something. He's like, What the fuck? Like just straight up, like total mind job. yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Michaela: no, no. That's like a horror movie. my god. Jason: And the worst part about it's at night. So he's on night vision goggles down there like looking around and yeah yeah. Yeah. So Dr. Michaela: No, I just can't with that. No. I man. You know, I think you touch on something so incredible though, which is that like you're going in. We talked about this a little bit when I was on your podcast, right? Like the difference between the Coast Guard division versus military. Military, we go into a war zone. We know people are trying to kill us. And so we can kind of show up in this defensive like, I'm gonna take you before you take me away. Coast Guard folks are these bleeding heart, empaths. Empathetic, empathic types who are literally trained to go help the helpless, right? And now you're going into an environment where you have a whole lot of people, and this is true for all of it, but that they're in their own fight, flight, fauna freeze. They're in their own survival mode. And oftentimes that override, no, not often, always overrides, right? Like the the higher Prefrontal cortex, critical thinking mind. We're in a survival brain. We're probably not willingly cooperating with everything that you're asking us to do. You know, you're kind of in a survival war zone a little bit. I've seen the way that somebody who is desperate for help can inadvertently hurt the helper, right? Like tell tell me Jason: Yes. Dr. Michaela: about that. Jason: So there's a couple of things that we train for that. So I'm I'm gonna do specific and or very yeah, specific and then the general, like the broad scheme of like a disaster, right? so the the simple is like the somebody is drowning, right? They what's the first thing that people talk about when you have an active drowning person? Like don't get too close, they're gonna they're gonna try to take you under, right? So that's stuff we train for. Like I wanna get close to you. I want you to try to take me under because I'm taking you under. Like it's now I'm gonna spin the tables like you're trying to get use me to get to the surface. And instead I'm pulling you underwater. So now I've got full control 'cause I'm I'm underwater with you, right? So now as soon as I have you, we're gonna come to the surface. I'm gonna be like, Look, I got you. We're good. We're good. Just just relax. Relax. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: Holy crap. So they see you as like the floating piece of plywood or whatever that they're trying to get on top of. And so rather than approach them in that way where they're gonna claw and take you, you come from underneath them and drag them down. Jason: Well, d if I need to. Let's I'll emphasize that. If I need to. If you don't have somebody that's cooperating with you. And that's that's like anybody that's just drowning. They they want to get out of the water, so they try to climb on whatever it is. So that's like if there are stories about that where like just a regular Tom Deck and Harry swim out to try to help Joe, Bob and yeah, exactly, because they Dr. Michaela: Yeah, they both die. Yeah. Yeah. Jason: they don't understand. So me And the training that I've been through and all of us that go through swimmer school, like if you're gonna climb or you're gonna try to grab me to get out of the water, I'm taking you under. And the first thing you're gonna do is let go to try to get to the surface, and now I I have full control. And that's it's just trained. It's trained that way. So yeah, Dr. Michaela: Wow. Jason: I go in. Yeah, it's kinda cool. So now let's go to the broad, right? So one of the things that's interesting when you get into larger like responses of like huge disasters and stuff like that. And this again, for me, I I have not responded to that. I've not been directly there, but we're trained to do it. And I've heard enough stories from all my boys that are like, yeah, this is the stuff that happens. Is it everybody's pretty compliant and because they want out of that bad scene. So Dr. Michaela: Yeah, yeah. Jason: it's like the the the person that had I'll I'll use a mother that is just so tired Because they've done every they've exhausted all of their capabilities and options and their knowledge to help their child. And then the paramedics show up and they just throw the kid and then they go to sleep. Right? It's Dr. Michaela: huh, huh. Jason: the same thing. So now you have a rescue personnel coming in. And it could be Coast Guard, it could be any of the agencies that show up. Like they're coming to help. And then all of a sudden there's that, Dr. Michaela: Right. That is all. Jason: I'm saved. I don't have to fight anymore. I'm saved by them. Dr. Michaela: Wow. Jason: So yeah. Dr. Michaela: Wow. Wow. That's so impressive. So amazing. Share with me the toughest story, the toughest thing you've had to overcome. And and maybe it's not a life lost. Maybe it's something else. Maybe Jason: Okay. so I I'ma plug my podcast here at this moment. Ready? Okay. Dr. Michaela: Please do. I was gonna do the same thing. This is perfect timing. Jason: All right. So the Real Rescue Podcast, episode one hundred is my biggest rescue that I've ever done. And to caveat that is episode a hundred and one is the captain of the vessel was the last one off the ship that our crew pulled out of the water. I I grabbed him out of the water and we got Yeah, we all we all went home. That Dr. Michaela: Wow. Jason: in particular rescue, middle of the Bering Sea, hundred and eighty seven foot vessel on fire. there's like twenty-five people on board, three or four people had passed away. but there were six people on the boat when we showed up on scene. A the whole boat engulfed in flames. It's called the Galaxy was the name of the ship. And That one sits with me for multiple reasons. One of is the the taxing physical agility to to be able to get in, cause I mean that we're in twenty foot waves. They put me down, I'm swimming over to the boat, I'm getting one person, we get hit by a wave, we get rolled. and it it was that part of it. It was just like, what the hell's going on? and then we get the other guys off the front. Captain Shoemaker was the last guy out. And when we get up into the helicopter, I've got five people in the helicopter now. Captain Shoemaker is pretty burned. So I'm dealing with his burns. I'm looking at my flight mechanic, Mike Simone. I'm like, do we have anybody else? Our two pilots, Kendall Garin, Melissa Rivera. they were all talking to the good Samaritan boats around. We had one more person they wanted us to take. And when he got into the helicopter, he not breathing, no pulse. So we're doing CPR. He's got a core temperature like super cold. And I I just remember doing a lot of CPR on him. We did CPR for about 45 minutes back to land. They kept him alive for I think like four or five, maybe six hours, and he ended up dying of a core temperature. They couldn't get his core temperature back up, so he ended up passing away. But that rescue sits with me. And if I start going into like a lot of detail, which I'm not going to right now, sorry. But I I I get emotional about it. it it sits with me. It's still it's still really heavy even today. And that was in two thousand two. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: Wow, thank you for sharing the story. I have so many questions. The first one that I have is, you know, I talked about peeling back the onion, like how we how I encourage people to do that. If you were to really think about the core of why that one hit you so hard and give a sentence to it, what do you think it was? Was what what was underneath it? Jason: probably not fully comprehending what was really going on. It was organized chaos, right? You've got so many people that are out there, you've got twenty foot waves, this boat's on fire, you got people that are counting on you and your crew to get them out of harm's way. And the the guy the particular guy that looked at me, so he was the second person off the boat and they were jumping to me off like I think it was forty feet and like off the water. So they're jumping off the boat and in sweatpants, sweatshirt, in ice cold water. It was 35 degrees in the in the ocean. And when we got I'll go deeper with this part of it. So I get I get them in a cross chest carry and I'm I'm pulling them, I put them in the rescue basket. We get rolled by a wave and when we got rolled by the wave we got spun and then next thing I know when we come up I've got the hoist cable to the helicopter coming down over my shoulder underneath the bales of the basket where you connect the hoist hook. A the cable goes around the back of him and then up to the up to the basket. And I'm looking at this whole scenario and thinking to myself, like, if this goes bad right now, this dude is gonna get cut in half right in front of me by this hoist cable. So I disconnect from the basket, I unroute it from around him and I go to hook it back up and poof the hook gets pulled right out of my hands. And I'm like, Okay, now now I'm in the water with a basket, the rescue device, my survivor in twenty foot waves, the helicopters behind me, I'm like, damn it. And I look at this dude and I'm like, Man, I got you. We're I'm gonna get you out of here. And he looked at me like calm, cool, he's like, Yeah, man, I know. He didn't say anything, but he's just like shaking his head like, Yeah, I know. And I'm looking at him like, dude, we are so fucked all that and then the C PR and the guy, Dr. Michaela: So what I'm hearing you say is there was a lot of emotional connection that was happening in those moments that probably seared into your mind, right? Like that was a moment. Jason: yeah. Dr. Michaela: Wow. And so I wonder how many times you've had those intimate moments with someone in the throws, right? Like at a level that is unspeakable. You described it as unspeakable. Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: and and how and how you impact them, you know, and and they probably carry you with them as well. Like, wow, what a what a crazy thing to think about. Jason: God had his hand in that one to get everybody home that came home. And Captain Shoemaker actually talks about it in in my conversation with him that there's two of them on the front of the ship, him and the other guy, and the guy says to him, Captain, are we gonna die today? And he says, Yep, we are. And Captain Shoemaker says, Well, now's a good time to start and you can start praying right Dr. Michaela: You should. You should. Jason: now because and then I I kid you not, like he starts talking about this and the C one thirty they hear the C one thirty, they hear the J. Coc coming. I'm like, it's it Dr. Michaela: Wow. It's a god thing. It's a god thing. Jason: it I yeah. I say it on the other end of my podcast, all of them, like people are playing for a miracle, they get us. Like God is sending us. It's it's just cool. I'm getting chills just thinking about it. I get I like it so Dr. Michaela: Yeah, that's so powerful. I just got them too. I love that. I love that. I Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: think that you touch on something so important, which is that there's this spiritual component and there's so much happening in the ethereal world that we don't see, right? These moments where there's so much happening above and beyond that we just don't even see or know. these downloads that you get to do something in the moment, right? You described like I unhooked this, knowing this would put us in a far worse situation, but it wasn't really because I saw, I was shown that this individual could be severed if I didn't do this thing. I overrid my own survival in that moment to unhook this and do this a different way. Right. Like so, so those are the those are the little, I don't even know how to describe it, inclinations, the downloads that you get, right? And that's probably why this this case stuck with you because it was more than you. It was so much more than you, you know? Jason: Yeah. I yeah. I haven't had one that big ever since. That is my biggest rescue that I've ever been on and I'm good at that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't need it. Dr. Michaela: You're like, that's my checkbox, got the t shirt. So so but Jason: I and for the record, if it happens again I will know exactly what to do and I'll be happy to do it. But I don't need to. I'm good. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: I'm I'm good. But but you know, your experience now is also being shared with the next level of people that are coming up behind you, right? That's that's just so powerful, the legacy that continues. And and I'm still trying to put myself in the mindset of someone who's on a burning boat in my sweatpants, going, I think I'll take my chances with the 40 foot drop into the ocean. Like I mean the fear. Jason: Yeah. In the Bering Sea, thirty five degree water cold. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: 35 degree water, probably zero degrees outside, like to really think about the level of human capacity, right? To go, mm, this thing's going down. It's engulfed in flames. So I'm gonna look off the edge. Like, I have a hard time jumping off of a 20-foot diving board, right? Like, come on, like how many people? Jason: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Michaela: Right? Like it really just shows the the level of the human capacity when faced with a threat. You know, like what we can really do to survive. And there's been incredible stories. I've got I've got to work with some incredible survivor stories in the work that I do and also been a part of research on different survival stories. And there was one that was so impressive about a guy that jumped off the golden gate and he decided en route that he wanted to live. And it's one of those things that it's kind of too late. But it doesn't override Jason: Right. Dr. Michaela: your survival instinct, right? Like, and and this is something with the suicide ideations that people don't realize is the will to live comes in strong, like and fast. And if you've if it's nanoseconds. If if what you're doing, I mean, I had one guy in the hospital put a gun to his to his jaw, did it in the wrong kind of way. And even after the trigger was pulled, he had the will to live. He did end up surviving. Lots of lots of stuff from that, but Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: the man hit he describes almost a spiritual experience of awakening as he's going into the water and porpoises in the San Francisco Bay kept him afloat until the Coast Guard arrived. Porpoises Jason: Wow. Dr. Michaela: kept him afloat. Talk about the God thing, right? Like Jason: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Michaela: I mean, it's it's crazy this kind of stuff. It really is. And you know, we think about going to work every day and driving in our car and then you think about these kinds of stories that just really make you pause and and reflect on what what are we here to do in life school? Like what Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: what is our purpose? And and you know, I'm sure everyone that survived that boat walked away that day with a different goal in life, you know. Jason: Yeah. For sure. I yeah. I the only person I still keep in touch with from time to time is Captain Shoemaker and it's it's very cool. Like it's just I like it. Okay, I like the fact that I get to keep in touch with them 'cause that's not normal in our world as far as rescue goes. You save somebody, you help somebody, you do whatever Medavac or just flight and then you're see you later. And then you never see them again. They have a memory, you have a memory, and there's no connection until much, much later. So yeah. Dr. Michaela: I was into the documentary for a while or mo what do they call it, where it was following those boats, the fishing vessels in the Bering Sea. I forget the name of the show now. The deadliest catch. And yeah. Jason: De yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Michaela: And you guys were featured in a couple of those episodes. That was pretty cool. Yeah. Jason: Yeah. Yeah, the the Coast Guard has done a lot with that show, because they've they're going in to go get those guys out of harm's way. And it it's like Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: it's it's kinda funny when you think about it 'cause it's almost like you ride a bicycle with a helmet, right? The helmet's not there to totally protect you, but it's at least it's there like so you think you can do more Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: th that's why you can do the backflip. I got the helmet on, it's gonna get right. Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Right. Right. Jason: A lot of those guys that are out fishing and they're like, Well, we have the Coast Guard, they've got our back. It's that helmet. And you're like, Well, I I do, we do, but dude I Dr. Michaela: But Jason: don't be stupid, man. So Dr. Michaela: Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, you gotta you know, I always talk about the inherent safety that we build into the high risk, and there's not much inherent safety in that environment, right? So that's the little Jason: Now Dr. Michaela: bit that they're checking that box, but mm, that's questionable. So so Jason: It's funny you you talk sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna interject real quick, this is funny, because Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: you were talking about safety, right? So I I I put together a safety presentation and it's it's kinda funny, it's like extreme by nature, safe by design. And the Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: idea behind it is everything we do, like l from the layman's person, somebody that's dangling from a helicopter in twenty foot waves in the Bering Sea, that is crazy. Like there's Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: nothing safe about that, any of it, right? Dr. Michaela: No. Jason: But we've gotten to the point where we can put all these checks and balances and safety factors in and be like, no, we we can't do it. We can do it relatively safety. And your buddy that you talked about that climbed Al Capitan, like, how many tim and like he looked fluid on the wall and any rocky climbed? Because it's Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Yeah. Jason: he's done all his safety checks to be able to do that without any question. And so it's like it's only s as safe as your comfortable with if that makes sense and Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: like I like safety but I hate safety. Like I live on the edge. There's a reason for it. Dr. Michaela: You know, it it's fun it's funny because I as a therapist, you know, I've pivoted to working with first responders because the personality type that I am, right? Like I can I can I can handle the psychiatric impatient. I've had a tampon pulled out of a hoo ha and thrown at me. I can work with couples who Jason: God, I'm so sorry. Dr. Michaela: that's probably my grossest, but I can I can work with the h the couples in high conflict that are chucking oranges across the room at each other in the middle of the session, right? And I can deal with the first responders because of their stories, but you put the average person in my therapy and they're like, Yeah, so I'm struggling to decide whether I sh and I'm like, Really? Like I like I I'm sorry. what what was the problem again? Like, you Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: know what I mean? Because my personality type, right? Like I'm getting in an 80-year-old war bird and I'm flying across the country in all of these turbulent weather conditions. Like, I can't relate on that level to somebody Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: who's afraid to make a phone call to that, you know, like I'm like, yeah. So so it's funny Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: how we gravitate towards because I just like you said, to the average person, this is just n terrifying. But to you, it's the work you do. So that's really interesting. Jason: Yeah, it's no big deal. Dr. Michaela: I have a technical question. So is it a Huey or is it a black hot? Like what are you guys what are you guys what is the hell yeah, I'm just curious. I I wanna know. Jason: very good question. I like that. So the The Coast Guard currently uses a Blackhawk model. So it's an H60 known as a Jayhawk. And the Jayhawk is designed specifically for the Coast Guard. So the Black Hawk is more army, the Pavehawk is more Marines, the Seahawk is more navy. so they all have their little versions. and that's ours is the Jayhawk. So and then we use the dolphin, which is like it's all orange, screams a lot, Dr. Michaela: Uh-huh, uhhuh. Jason: So that's a sixty five. They have those up in Humboldt Bay. The sixty five. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then how many I mean, you were talking about five passengers or rescuees being in there. Like how many people can really fit comfortably in there? Like what's the environment? Jason: depends on so if you're in Alaska, th those fishermen are big boys. So five, maybe six seven, maybe. the Dr. Michaela: Yeah. Jason: I think the record is twenty four off the top of my head, and that was off a ship in like off Virginia coast. one of the H sixties out of Elizabeth City, North Carolina, they went in, but it was smaller Dr. Michaela: wow. Jason: smaller people. And I I don't mean like Dr. Michaela: yeah. Jason: like I mean like I think they were from Asia or down in the Indonesia and they you could literally fit two people in the basket and they just they sat everybody nut to butt like three rows. Yeah. Dr. Michaela: And they were just they were just like standing upright or something like that. Wow. What's the payload Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: in that thing? It's gotta be a lot. Jason: Depends on how much f it is. I I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I know if there's not the less fuel, the more people you can you can pack. But the less fuel, the less you can fly. So Yeah. Dr. Michaela: Yeah. And and you guys don't do any midair refueling for for rescues or anything like that. Jason: not not totally. I you they can and that's known as a hyper and that's coming from a ship. So if you get a hose from a ship they can do it while you're in a hover. But as far as like air to air, no. No, no, no. Dr. Michaela: wow. None of that. Wow. Gosh, it's so fascinating. I know that we are out of time, but I so appreciate this today. This is like well, we we will have you back on because I have so many Jason: that's too bad. I was just getting warmed up. I'm just kidding, I'm kidding. Dr. Michaela: questions. I love it. We didn't even really get to talk a whole lot about the mental health part of things, but I just really wanted to share the story of what you guys are doing because it's a behind the scenes that a lot of people, Jason: Thank you. Dr. Michaela: you know, never really get to see. Jason: Yeah. Dr. Michaela: thank you so much for coming on and sharing a little bit about this. And thank you to your wife for letting me geek out on you for a whole hour. but this was this was so fantastic. So thank you so much. just absolutely loved Jason: My pleasure. Dr. Michaela: it. Jason: Thanks, Doc. Appreciate ya. Dr. Michaela: Where can people g just just 'cause I forgot to ask this, where can people get in touch with you the easiest if they wanna learn more about your missions and what you're doing? Jason: the real rescue dot com. That's T H E R E A L R E S Q dot com. And then there's a contact Dr. Michaela: And of course Jason: page and yeah. Dr. Michaela: Of course, we always put the links in the show notes, folks, so that you can go check out Jason, the real the real rescue podcast. So amazing. Thanks so much for coming on. Jason: Thanks.