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Driving Under the Influence/Driving While Ability Impaired · Inside the Criminal Process

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why do some people ask for a supervisor when they're dealing with the police?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are police officers allowed to curse at citizens?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: How much discretion do police officers really have in their day-to-day activities?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Inside the Criminal Process, a podcast where I'll discuss and explain the criminal justice system in America using real-life examples and true crime cases.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Scott, and I'm a 29-year veteran law enforcement officer and an attorney.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked as a patrol officer, a crime scene investigator, a field training officer, a detective, a parole officer, an investigator, a polygraph examiner, a crisis negotiator, and an administrator.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've also taught college-level criminal justice classes.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to do the interview that I that I mentioned on the previous podcast.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't able to schedule that, so we'll do that in a future episode.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm going to talk about DUIs.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's pretty common knowledge that that stands for driving under the influence.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: In this state, most cops refer to driving under the influence cases as DUI.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've also heard them, some cops call them DUEs.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Some states use OUI operating under the influence.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also a lesser crime of driving while intoxicated or impaired, which is DWI.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: That just means that you didn't have the blood alcohol level that you needed to reach a DUI level, but you were still driving impaired.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: In this state, in most states for that matter, the law says you can't drive a motor vehicle while you're under the influence of alcohol or one or more drugs or a combination of alcohol and one or more drugs.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: The key elements here are driving, motor vehicle, under the influence, and drugs.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Driving under the influence is a misdemeanor, but it can become a felony when you have prior convictions or if other offenses are involved.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: For example, you kill or seriously injure somebody while driving a motor vehicle under the influence.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: That usually turns to vehicular homicide or vehicular assault.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: The statute in this state refers to the controlled substances section of the revised statutes to determine if a driver is prohibited from using a specific drug while under the influence of that drug.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the statute also specifically states that having a right to use a controlled substance is not a defense.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's warnings on most uh most drug labels that say don't don't use this if you're gonna be operating heavy machinery or driving a vehicle.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just know that the specific most of them are controlled sub or schedule two controlled substances that you can't use while driving, and those are laid out within the uh within the statute itself.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: The element of under the influence means that that a person has consumed alcohol, drugs, or a combination of alcohol and drugs that affects them to a degree that the person is substantially incapable, either mentally or physically, or both mentally and physically, to exercise clear judgment, sufficient physical control, or do care in the safe operation of a vehicle.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that those that's exact wording of the statute.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when a cop pulls somebody over and and they're looking at a DUI case, um, they have to prove.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have to prove that the person was affected, used, used drugs or alcohol, or drugs and alcohol, and it affected them to agree that they are substantially incapable, either mentally, physically, or both mentally and physically, um, to exercise clear judgment, sufficient physical control, or due care in the safe operation of a vehicle.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, as I've said previously, an officer has to have reasonable suspicion to pull someone over for any traffic violation, and DUI is no different.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Any violation will suffice.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, generally, drunks are weaving, ignoring traffic control devices, which are lights and signs.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they're going the wrong way in the wrong lanes, etc.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, sometimes it's very obvious to tell when somebody's intoxicated while they're driving.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: During the contact that the officer has with the driver, the officer typically observes signs of intoxication, such as bloodshot, watery eyes, slurring words, flushed complexion, open containers.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's an odor of an alcoholic beverage, um, the driver's responses to questions, and typically, you know, how much have you had to drink tonight?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, of course, what is the answer?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's always I've had two beers.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's always the answer.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: That that's a that's a red flag and that's a clue when you are dealing with somebody that you might think of that you might think has had too much to drink.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: If the officer has reasonable suspicion that you're under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or a combination, um, he or she then performs roadside tests.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: When they have you step out of the car, they'll also the officer's usually also watching for other signs of intoxication, or they should be anyways, observing any difficulties that you have with your balance, any stumbling, um any fidgeting, anything of that nature.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Confusion is a big one too.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: At this point, the officer will ask you to perform roadsides once you're out.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they're voluntary, they that you have to volunteer to do the roadsides.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if you refuse, that doesn't mean the officer can't arrest you for DUI, as long as he or she has established probable cause to do so, um, or they have observed enough intoxication indicators to think that you've driven while under the influence.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I know of several cases where someone refused to complete the tests and they were convicted of DUI based on factors that led the officer to believe the person was drunk to begin with.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um even without roadsides, and roadsides are referred to uh officially as SFST, standard field sobriety tests.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've seen people get convicted with the in the absence of doing standard field sobriety tests and in the axe absence of chemical testing.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when they offer you blood or breath and you refuse those, um you can still get convicted, charged and convicted with with for DUI.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: For drugs, the process is a little different.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you still do roadsides, but typically a DRE, which is a drug recognition expert, expert, will be involved in this process if drugs are suspected.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So DREs have to go through some pretty intense training to be certified as a drug recognition expert.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Training's long, quite arduous from what I've been told.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Not all agencies have DREs because the training is so long, and and uh that may be different now, since many states have legalized marijuana, some states have legalized psilocybin, which is uh mushrooms as well.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there may be more agencies out there that have drug recognition experts.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, there's three tests that have to be proven, or at least uh um these are generally accepted by the courts to establish that someone is under the influence of or impaired by alcohol.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those three tests are the walk and turn, the one-legged stand, and horizontal gaze nystagmus, HGN.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So don't believe the movies or shows, uh the videos you see online where a cop asks somebody to recite the alphabet backwards or perform some crazy dance moves.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that old show Reno 911 and the movie The Man with Two Brains comes to mind.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you haven't seen those, they're pretty good.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just Google Steve Martin, Man with Two Brains, DUI test, and it'll come up on YouTube or Reno 911 DUI test.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're very entertaining.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to the field sobriety tests, um there were tests like tilt your head backwards, close your eyes, touch the tip of your nose with your index finger.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and another one where they would ask you to tilt your head backwards and close your eyes and just stand there.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think these were probably replaced because the risk of a drunk falling and hurting themselves during those maneuvers was probably too great.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you all know what somebody does when somebody's fallen in front of them, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: They move out of the way.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they always did in the military, anyways.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: When we have big formations in the heat and they were long formations for change of command or something like that, there's always somebody that locks their knees and they and they pass out.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, they always said locking your knees causes you to pass out.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's a scientific fact or if they just if they just told us that.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's always somebody that passes out in those formations, and I was always amazed that as soon as somebody started wobbling and fell backwards, everybody got out of their way.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I not once did I see somebody reach out and grab the person and save their head from hitting the the pavement.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably why they got rid of those two tests.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know, but but that would be my guess.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So horizontal gaze nystagmus, basically that's involuntary twitching of the eyes.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what the officer will do will have the person follow their index finger or pen uh with their eyes, and both eyes move together, and the nystagmus, the sooner the nystagmus starts as you're moving the finger or pen away from the center of the face, the drunker the person is.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there's there's no way to control this, by the way.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Some people do have resting nystagmus, which means their eyes twitch when they're just looking forward and they're not under the influence.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's very rare.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's what you're that's what the officers are looking for when they're doing the follow my finger, look up here and follow my finger.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're watching for how quickly the nystagmus starts.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And nystagmus just is twitching, the eyes start twitching, and it's very pronounced in in people that have had a lot to drink.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then these are the the scores on these are based on their numerical scores.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, the the sooner the eyes start twitching when they're moving out to maximum deviation is is a the higher the score is there.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So then the next turn or the next test is a walk and turn.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, the the cops have you stand there with one foot in front of the other, arms down at your side, and pay attention while they're they're giving you the instructions.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the instructions are are meant to be, they're very specific, but they're also uh kind of long and they're a little bit confusing if you had anything to drink.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you go heel to toe and you absolutely have to put heel to toe, and you walk so many steps down uh down a line.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: We usually use the line on the side of the road or or a line in a parking lot or something like that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Take this many steps, leave that whatever foot hits on those many steps, leave that foot in front and pivot around that foot, that toe, the toes on that foot, and then walk back the same number of steps.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So most drunks don't usually, well, they don't go hill to toe, or they fall off the line, they they waver a little bit, they don't follow instructions, they take too many or too few steps.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: They jump up and turn around 180 degrees when they're when they're doing their turn.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know a lot of people do that, and I think it's they're trying to prove to you that they're not drunk.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's not that's not what the instructions were.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um you also get scores on that, points for stepping off the line, not following instructions, not taking the right amount of steps, not doing the proper turn, um putting your arms up, stuff of that nature.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last test is the one-legged stand, and that's where you lift your leg up about a foot off the ground and point your toe, and you look at your toe, and you keep your hands down and you start counting one 1000, two one thousand, and then the officers will stop you when they've observed enough.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then points for that are obviously putting your foot down, um not listening to not paying attention, uh, wavering, stuff of that nature.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, the more points you get during these tests, um, the the more intoxicated you are.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Some officers will ask subjects to recite the alphabet without singing it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be amazed at just saying that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Goes in one ear and out the other, and people start singing their alphabet.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have to stop them and tell them without singing it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a little more difficult for drunk people to say the alphabet without singing it.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had one once I was I worked with this uh this gal that was from Scotland and we were riding his car partners one night.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: We pulled over somebody that just came speeding out of the the bar parking lot onto this busy street and squealing their tires and doing all this.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we pulled her over.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: We take her over to a parking lot, we're doing roadsides, and my uh my partner said, Uh, do you know your British alphabet?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the girl goes, No, I don't.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my partner goes, You don't know the alphabet?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Well, I don't know the British alphabet.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And my partner looked at me and I said, You did say British alphabet.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I is there a difference?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And she started laughing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, I have no idea why I said that.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were laughing, and that upset this girl because she thought we were making fun of her.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we almost ended up getting in a fight with her.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, she ended up, she she did go uh get booked into to jail for for DY because she was pretty intoxicated.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I had another guy pulled over and I said, say your alphabet without singing it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, and he was a student, so it's relevant that he was a he was a college student at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and and he said, This is how he said his his ABCs A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, N L V, W, X, Y, Z.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Did you hear what you did there?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, excuse me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, What?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I said, when you got to U, you said U N L V.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, I did.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I think it was something where he had like pledged to a fraternity or something, and they were they were required to do that with their alphabet.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it was, I do remember this, this um, this man was not drunk, so he he didn't get arrested for DUI.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: The only party failed was the alphabet.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not proof that he's drunk, obviously.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: He had done pretty well on all the other tests.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that that's just another indicator that somebody may be under the influence, the ABCs.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Next time you're at a party, you and your friend's really drunk, ask them to say their ABCs without uh without saying them.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people just stop in the middle and they get confused, or they don't finish, or you know, it just it's weird how how alcohol affects your ability to uh to say the ABCs.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I have no idea.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing scientific to it, and it's certainly not something that's gonna prove that you were drunk in a in a court of law.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: You would have to have these other three tests with indicators there as well.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: It can it can certainly help though.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: If the officer gets enough of those indicators during the roadsides, um the officer then asks you if you want to take um if you get a high enough score on those tests, that that establishes probable cause to arrest you for DUI.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: The officer then will ask you, do you want a blood or breath test?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think most states have the threshold of 0.08 for DUI and 0.05 for DWAI now.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it used to be uh 0.1 and a 0.05, but they've most states have dropped it to a 0.08.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um when you're going through the process to get your driver's license, you sign an informed consent form, which basically says if you're suspected of driving under the influence, you must take a blood of breath test.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you refuse, you automatically lose your license.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in this state, it's one year for the first offense, and then it's it's more for the for subsequent offenses.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm gonna talk about administrative versus criminal law for a second.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So DUI is a crime, and your driver's license, um, the regulations are governed by an administrative process.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So those are separate and distinct processes.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's no double jeopardy for being held accountable criminally and administratively.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the DMV, Department of Motor Vehicles, can take your license, and you can also um get jail time or probation or something of that nature by the criminal court.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not double jeopardy.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's been litigated in this state by a very famous singer.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his lawyer argued it was double jeopardy to take his license and then sentence him criminally because those were two punishments for the same crime.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the courts basically ruled that a criminal prosecution and punishment does not bar administrative actions or civil lawsuits.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So double jeopardy is uh is is prohibited by the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution, and it basically says that you can't be tried twice for the same crime for which they've already been tried and punished.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: But again, administrative processes and criminal cases are completely different.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I've mentioned this before, but someone can be tried in criminal criminally in state court and then federal court for the same offense.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, those are separate government systems, though.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um the the the civil equivalent of double jeopardy is called rest judicata, and that means literally a matter judged, and that me basically just says a cause of action may not be relitigated once there's been a final judgment on the merits.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the term rest judicata is is used interchangeably uh with the term claim preclusion.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how it's dealt with in in in civil law.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So on to the questions for today.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: The why do some people ask for a supervisor when they're dealing with the police?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I see this all the time on TikTok and YouTube.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I want a supervisor, I want a supervisor, and I think I've I've covered it before as well.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: One of the police departments for which I worked, uh, if someone requested a supervisor, we had to ask for one.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um the supervisor was usually out and driving around anyway, so it wasn't that big of a deal.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: If we were really busy, the supervisor could call on the radio and decide if the call warranted that he or she respond.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was in the policy of the department.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think people have the idea that complaining to a supervisor might help them plead their case to another more sympathetic party, but what usually happens is that the supervisor tells the person the same thing the officer did.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know of any instances where a supervisor determined that an officer shouldn't have contacted or stopped the person, um, or that the officer handled something inappropriately or did something wrong.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that happens, but I'm just not aware of any specific instances.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I did have a coworker who pulled someone over for having a headlight out.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when the supervisor got there, he walked to the front of the car and verified that the headlight was out.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: But he didn't do anything else because he basically said the stop is legit.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um take it up in court.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um my co-worker was offended that the supervisor checked, but it took like 10 seconds, and I don't think the supervisor was doing it because he didn't trust the officer.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think he most likely thought checking the headlight would placate the citizen, and it did.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um my co-worker listed the sergeant, excuse me, um, on his ticket as a witness, which which wasn't wrong, but I think he did it to teach the supervisor a lesson because if that had gone to court, the supervisor would have been on the on a witness list and would have had to go to court.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are police officers allowed to curse at citizens?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you would think that since citizens can curse and act foolish with officers, that officers could do likewise.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the agencies I worked for, they would discipline you for cursing if it was really bad.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I've stated before that I think citizens deserve the respect that they give.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're calling names and cursing, the officer has a right to as well.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it does look good for officers to maintain professionalism and refrain, refrain from that behavior, especially if it's on camera.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I've said before, cops are human.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Some people can push your buttons.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Most cops lose their cool at one point or another, and it's usually best to ignore the the jerks so you don't have to answer to internal affairs or write statements about your conduct.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um there were several times where I wish I could have actually taken off my gun and badge and and taught somebody a lesson, but it's just much better to deal with the situation, let the miserable person go on their way and and ignore it, let it roll off your uh roll off your back.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, and again, don't get me started on the First Amendment auditors here.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I also think I've said this before, but cops generally know that the uh the the loudmouths that claimed they'd beat you up if you weren't wearing a gun and a badge are only saying that because you are wearing a badge and a gun.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the person would be uh nine times out of ten, the person.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Would be way too much of a coward to say anything to the cop if if he or she saw the cop off duty.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I always used to just say that in my mind while I was driving somebody to the station or to jail, and they're telling me, if you aren't, David, if you didn't have that badge and gun, I'd kick your ass and blah, blah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just, you know, thinking to myself, that's a lie.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: If we were in a grocery store or somewhere and I was in line in front of you, um, or if I came up and cut in front of you, you wouldn't do anything.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: You would just take it because you're you're being tough, because you know that because I'm wearing this badge and this gun, I can't really do anything about it.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: How much discretion discretion do police officers have in their day-to-day activities?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that depends kind of on what they're handling.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, if they're investigating a felony, they're likely to make an arrest as long as there's probable caused.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Minor traffic issues or accidents, cops usually have lots of discretion.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't typically do a lot of traffic enforcement because I'm not a great driver and I felt kind of hypocritical enforcing laws that I sometimes break.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: But and and there are also times that people take away your discretion.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: For example, most traffic accidents have a person that is more responsible for the accident than the other one.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So to let that person go on a warning wouldn't be fair to the other driver.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a cop usually has to cite the driver that committed the violation.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um at one of the agencies where I worked, if a complaint, complainant or victim demanded to sign a complaint, we were required to summons or arrest the suspect.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it said in the policy that that when a victim or a complainant is willing to sign a complaint against somebody, that establishes probable cause for you.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that was, I think that was just in domestic violence situations, um, where the agencies that I work for in in this state in domestic violence cases, there has to be an arrest of the initial aggressor.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and they have to go to jail.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: They have to be there until the judge can advise them what they're prohibited from doing, um, putting a restraining order in place.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they can't they couldn't bond out if you had them on state charges from the jail until they saw a judge.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Two areas where police are generally limited in using discretion.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a warrant for your arrest, or if you are subject to parole or probation conditions, and if and uh or if there's a protection order in place.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in these situations, a judge or a higher authority has placed a requirement on law enforcement that that requires them to make an arrest if the person is violating the conditions of that order, and and judges do not appreciate when cops ignore that or tell the person you need to take care of that warrant.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's basically the judge saying, if the person does this, like if they show up at this house and the police are there, you have to make an arrest.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Parole is a little different in this state because parole officers have arrest authority and they can use discretion in enforcing parole conditions.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So cops generally don't arrest parolees for violating conditions of their parole, they just let the parole officer know about the violation.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um for instance, parolee has on their parole conditions that they can't hang out with felons or they can't drink alcohol.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's there for their 21, it's not illegal for them to be drinking alcohol, and and the cops don't really care who you're hanging out with.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, and you're not going to get arrested for hanging out with with another felon.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: The the the cops may write that down and and find out who the parole officer is and let the parole officers know so that they can take action if they want to.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but unless the parole is actually committing a crime and the police officer has probable cause to arrest him or her, um, then they can arrest and charge them with a crime.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the parole officer would also be notified and then they can charge that uh that parolee with the the parole violation as well.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because most parole conditions say that you can't um you cannot be charged criminally.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the parole process is an administrative process like the DMV process.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a criminal process, so the parolee can be held accountable by both forums, criminally and administratively.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it for this episode.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: In the next episode, I'm going to talk about leadership generally and then specifically about law enforcement leadership.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks for listening and take care.