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Murder In Moscow: Prosecutors Respond To Bryan Kohberger's Witness Tampering Allegations · Beyond The Horizon

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Yesterday,
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  Speaker 1: we heard that Brian Kohlberger and his legal team were
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  Speaker 1: accusing the FBI of intimidating their witness. Well, we're now
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  Speaker 1: learning that the witness may not have been completely truthful
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to their declaration and the affidavit that
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  Speaker 1: they gave. And that came after prosecutors noticed an irregularity
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  Speaker 1: with some of the testimony from the DNA expert that
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  Speaker 1: was called by Brian Koberger's team, Gabriela Vargas. So like
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  Speaker 1: I said yesterday, remember the accusations that are being leveled
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  Speaker 1: by Koberger's team are just that, accusations. It's the same
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  Speaker 1: as Murdaugh's legal team saying that there was all kinds
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  Speaker 1: of prosecutorial misconduct. That sounds really bad, and it sounds
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  Speaker 1: like it's a foothold for Alec Murdoch, but is it really?
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  Speaker 1: Or are they just allegations that are being thrown out
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  Speaker 1: there to help muddy the water? Because remember, at this point,
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  Speaker 1: it's a game of narratives. Both sides are thinking about
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  Speaker 1: potential jurors and what potential jurors might think or say
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  Speaker 1: once the jury is impaneled and Kohlberger is in front
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  Speaker 1: of them. So if Kohlberger's lawyers can sow some seeds
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  Speaker 1: of doubt with a potential jury that there is some
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  Speaker 1: prosecutorial misconduct, so much the better for Brian Koberger's team.
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  Speaker 1: But the problem is, it doesn't seem like there's any
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  Speaker 1: there there. So, let's dive into this article from Fox News,
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  Speaker 1: and let's try and sort this all out. Headline, FBI
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  Speaker 1: Investigates Key Witness for Brian Koberger's Defense. This article was
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  Speaker 1: authored by Michael Ruiz, and it was published by Fox News.
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  Speaker 1: Rather than cross-examining an expert witness for the defense of Idaho,
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  Speaker 1: murder suspect Brian Koberger, Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson, flagged
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  Speaker 1: the FBI to investigate her following some contradictory testimony. Koberger's
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  Speaker 1: defense has alleged grand jury irregularities, prosecutorial misconduct, and has
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  Speaker 1: attempted to discredit DNA methods used in the case. Gabriela Vargas,
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  Speaker 1: an expert on genetic genealogy, testified on the DNA issues
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  Speaker 1: during a hearing on August 18th. Days later, the feds
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  Speaker 1: knocked on her door, according to Kohlberger's attorneys. Now look,
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  Speaker 1: if you give false statements in the court and you're
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  Speaker 1: under oath, that's contempt. You can go to jail for that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what she did here. I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: But if you're not being truthful and you're on the
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  Speaker 1: witness stand, that's certainly contempt of court. And you're looking
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  Speaker 1: at a jail sentence. So is it really witness intimidation
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  Speaker 1: as Brian Kohlberger's lawyers attempted to assert? Or is the
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  Speaker 1: FBI just going to shake some trees and doing what
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  Speaker 1: their job description tells them they should be doing? And
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  Speaker 1: for those of you out there who might be new listeners,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of the FBI. I'm not
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  Speaker 1: in the business of defending them here. But right is
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  Speaker 1: right and wrong is wrong. And you have to call
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  Speaker 1: balls and strikes how you see them. And it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: seem to me that the FBI is out of line
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  Speaker 1: for talking to a witness who might have perjured herself
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  Speaker 1: in open court. I would think that's something that they
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  Speaker 1: would go and investigate. Last night, she was visited by
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  Speaker 1: two FBI agents and interrogated about her testimony and the
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  Speaker 1: findings of her declaration. Ann Taylor, Kohlberger's lead defense attorney,
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  Speaker 1: said during an August hearing. That, in our view, impacts Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Koberger's due process rights. And if it wasn't because her
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  Speaker 1: declaration didn't add up with her testimony, I'd be much
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  Speaker 1: more inclined to give the nod to Koberger here and
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  Speaker 1: say that his team has the right of it. Anytime
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  Speaker 1: the government is harassing a witness, not a good thing.
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  Speaker 1: But that doesn't seem to be the case. Now that
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  Speaker 1: we're getting some more details about this, certainly seems that
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  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team is once again playing some games. When
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  Speaker 1: we heard of that, I reached out to investigators and asked,
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  Speaker 1: can you find out what is going on, Thompson said.
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  Speaker 1: The FBI indeed undertook an investigation, and other reports are
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  Speaker 1: that Ms. Vargas claimed that some of what was in
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  Speaker 1: her declaration she had inadvertently agreed to or signed without
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  Speaker 1: fully reading. Now, why in the hell are you signing
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  Speaker 1: any kind of court document, any document, by the way,
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  Speaker 1: without fully reading it? especially if you're some kind of
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  Speaker 1: expert witness for the defense. I'm sure that the prosecutors
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  Speaker 1: are going to have a field day with this, and
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  Speaker 1: my guess is that Ms. Vargas here is not going
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  Speaker 1: to be called as a witness when we get to
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  Speaker 1: the trial. Because if you're leaving things out in your declaration,
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  Speaker 1: the prosecutors are going to have a field day with
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  Speaker 1: that during cross-examination, and the jury, well, I'm sure the
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  Speaker 1: jury would love to hear all about how you have
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  Speaker 1: no idea what you're talking about. The expert testimony had
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  Speaker 1: other controversy with prosecutors asking the court for permission to
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  Speaker 1: delay cross-examination to a later date over a snafu with
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  Speaker 1: PowerPoint slides. And that's relatively common during the process for
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  Speaker 1: one side or the other to object to the way
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  Speaker 1: something's being presented. We saw it during the VALO trial.
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  Speaker 1: They tried to get some of the PowerPoint slides out
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  Speaker 1: of evidence. because they say that they weren't prepared correctly
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  Speaker 1: or they didn't have time to look at them. You know,
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  Speaker 1: a whole host of reasons as to why this evidence
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  Speaker 1: shouldn't be admitted into the court. The exchange happened during
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  Speaker 1: an August 23 hearing, but resurfaced last week after Thompson
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  Speaker 1: declined to cross-examine Vargas and another DNA expert and former
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  Speaker 1: FBI agent Tracy Walder told Law and Crime that such
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  Speaker 1: an interview is atypical. The FBI declined to comment, but
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  Speaker 1: legal experts tell Fox News Digital that circling back for
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  Speaker 1: an interview with a witness who may have signed something
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  Speaker 1: she didn't read is a permissible move. Well, yeah, the
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  Speaker 1: court is going to want to know what the hell
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  Speaker 1: is going on here. Why is an expert witness signing
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  Speaker 1: a declaration that she didn't read or she doesn't understand?
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  Speaker 1: Does that sound like a good idea to anybody out there?
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  Speaker 1: So why the hell is this lady doing it? And
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  Speaker 1: for me, it really throws a whole cloud and shadow
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  Speaker 1: over Kohlberger's defense team. If you guys can't bring an
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  Speaker 1: expert to the table who can't even maintain basic clerical
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  Speaker 1: work with her affidavit, do you really think anyone's going
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  Speaker 1: to be giving you the benefit of the doubt when
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  Speaker 1: you trot out these experts? I don't think it's entirely
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  Speaker 1: unusual for prosecutors to direct their investigators, agents of law enforcement,
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  Speaker 1: to follow up with a witness, said Edwina Elcox, a
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  Speaker 1: Boise-based defense attorney who is not connected to the case.
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  Speaker 1: Unless something untoward happened, mere contact and follow-up is certainly
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  Speaker 1: not out of bounds. And of course, the way that
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  Speaker 1: Koberger's team was serving it up was that she was
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  Speaker 1: being intimidated, the G-men showed up in their suits, in
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  Speaker 1: their black cars, you know, the whole thing. But really
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  Speaker 1: what was happening is it was a follow-up interview that
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  Speaker 1: was ordered by Bill Thompson and the prosecutor's office. And
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  Speaker 1: it was due to the fact that there were irregularities
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  Speaker 1: in the affidavit and the statements made by Ms. Vargas.
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  Speaker 1: That all seems pretty cut and dry to me. Kohlberger
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  Speaker 1: was pursuing a PhD in criminology at Washington State University
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  Speaker 1: on November 13, 2022, when four students at the neighboring
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  Speaker 1: University of Idaho were were stabbed to death at 4 a.m.
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  Speaker 1: in a home invasion attack. The victims were close friends
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  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. On
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  Speaker 1: December 30th, police arrested Kohlberger at his parents' house in Pennsylvania.
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  Speaker 1: They seized the alleged suspect's vehicle on the property and
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  Speaker 1: had discovered familial DNA in the trash that prosecutors allege
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  Speaker 1: matches a sample recovered from a knife sheath left under
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  Speaker 1: Mogan's body. The 28-year-old Kohlberger faces four charges of first-degree
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  Speaker 1: murder and one of felony burglary. He could face the
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  Speaker 1: death penalty if convicted. Judge John Judge entered a not
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  Speaker 1: guilty plea on Kohlberger's behalf during his arraignment in May.
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  Speaker 1: A trial initially set to begin in October has been
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  Speaker 1: postponed after Kohlberger waived his right to a speedy trial
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  Speaker 1: last month. well, there was no doubt that this was
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  Speaker 1: going to be delayed. I said that from the very beginning.
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  Speaker 1: The timeline that we were dealing with was very optimistic.
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  Speaker 1: And when you have this much discovery, this much evidence,
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  Speaker 1: and this much rancor on both sides, it's not going
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  Speaker 1: to be an easy process. It's going to take time,
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  Speaker 1: and both sides are going to jockey for position. And
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  Speaker 1: every time we see one of these court filings going
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  Speaker 1: back and forth with these sorts of accusations, you better
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  Speaker 1: believe there's a lot more to it than just making
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  Speaker 1: the filing. And if you need an example of that,
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  Speaker 1: just look how many articles were published yesterday after Kohlberger's
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  Speaker 1: team asserted that the FBI was tampering with their witness. Meanwhile,
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  Speaker 1: we hadn't heard from the state yet. All we had
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  Speaker 1: was the assertions of Kohlberger's team. And now we're hearing
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  Speaker 1: from the state why they did this and why they
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  Speaker 1: dispatched the FBI to go talk to Mrs. Vargas. And
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  Speaker 1: when you look at the whole entire scenario, it makes
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  Speaker 1: a lot of sense. And certainly, at least in my opinion,
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  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be something that would be even in
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  Speaker 1: the realm of misconduct. And I highly doubt that the
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  Speaker 1: court is going to look at it as misconduct either. Now,
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  Speaker 1: Judge Judge hasn't made a ruling. one way or the other,
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  Speaker 1: but once he does make a ruling and an order
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  Speaker 1: or a document hits the docket, we'll definitely get it
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  Speaker 1: added to the catalog. But on the initial assessment of
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  Speaker 1: these claims that there was witness tampering or that the
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  Speaker 1: witness was being bullied, I don't see any evidence for
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  Speaker 1: that at least according to what's been made public. So
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  Speaker 1: we'll keep an eye on things, and when more information
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  Speaker 1: is available, we'll certainly get it added to the catalog.
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  Speaker 1: All right, everybody, that's going to do it for this one.
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  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
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  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.