Latest / Specialty Matcha Podcast / Interview with Matsu Matcha, Bryan

Transcript

Interview with Matsu Matcha, Bryan · Specialty Matcha Podcast

0:00
All right, hello and welcome to the Specialty Matcha Podcast.
0:02
My name is Ryan. This is Michael Ho Sungjun.
0:04
Hello, hello. And we're the cofounders of
0:06
Sanko Matcha Products. Yeah.
0:08
We launched this podcast to discuss our learning journey in
0:11
Matcha, share startup stories and interview experts.
0:14
And today, we are happy to have Brian from Matsumasa.
0:18
Hello. Ryan, Hey, everyone.
0:20
Hey, so happy to be here. Thanks for coming on.
0:24
Could you give everyone a little background both on yourself and
0:27
the Matcha Matcha brand? Hello, Ryan from the future
0:31
here. This episode was recorded a few
0:33
months ago, but as of the publishing of this recording,
0:36
Machu Matcha has officially launched, so we've linked their
0:39
website and socials in the show notes below.
0:41
Thanks. We are getting very close to the
0:43
launch and I'm super excited about it.
0:45
But just some information about myself.
0:48
I'm debt preneur, so basically run a company.
0:52
Currently, I'm running a digital advertising agency that focuses
0:56
on performance advertising and serves clients across multiple
1:00
different industries. And we have work with clients
1:02
like Google. We work like Xfers and a couple
1:07
of FNB brands in Singapore as well.
1:09
And the speciality is running and targeting premium customer
1:13
segments in APEC and maximizing their revenue for them.
1:16
So that is my core gig, my core hassle right now.
1:20
And this is the main reason why Macho Mature is being delayed so
1:24
much in terms of its launch and by being a debt premier.
1:27
I am a father of two kids, two and four.
1:30
So yeah, as you can tell, there's, there's a lot going on
1:33
right now in my life, but I feel that it's it's it's high time
1:38
that I kind of chase my passion and, and do what I really love
1:43
to do, which is Matcha. What got you inspired to start a
1:46
matcha brand? I know you were pretty like
1:48
prolific matcha consumer consuming a lot of competition
1:52
grade tea. And we were just talking before
1:54
this recording about learning and going to these tea houses in
1:58
Bangkok. I noticed a lot of your, at
2:00
least on your Instagram feed, a lot of very rigorous tasting
2:03
notes and changing different things and different proportions
2:07
and talking about the outcome. So what's your matcha, origin
2:11
story and journey been like to lead you to founding Matsu?
2:14
So my journey probably started eight years or more ago with
2:19
like matcha desserts and matcha buffets and matcha soft serve
2:23
and maybe also like some matcha bakes.
2:25
So that was like my entry into matcha.
2:27
And I think pretty much for a lot of matcha consumers as well,
2:30
it's all true desserts. I mean, it was, it's very rarely
2:35
that they start off with ushucha or koicha because it's, I would
2:39
say probably an acquired taste like after a while.
2:41
Yeah. And matcha buffet was like my
2:43
comfort food when I was really stressed up at work and in life.
2:46
That was like my entry point. And I then went on to try matcha
2:50
lattes. So my experience with matcha
2:53
have always been in retail and shopping malls and cafes and
2:56
also like home based bakeries in Singapore.
2:59
And then gradually matcha became more popular in Singapore.
3:03
And then I started to buy ceremonial matcha, not knowing
3:07
what each of the description means and just simply took in
3:11
what was marketed as like good matcha in Singapore.
3:13
And yeah, I think maybe even like in 20/17/2018, matcha
3:20
marketed in Singapore as 100% first flush is supposed to be
3:25
considered like good quality matcha.
3:28
But then as we know, like now that we are in the industry,
3:32
it's, it's, I mean, first flush matcha is like the bare minimum
3:35
for like ceremonial grapes. So.
3:38
So I think there is a big gap like in consumer knowledge in
3:42
how matcha is supposed to taste like at least now in retrospect,
3:46
yeah. Then after that, I bought as
3:48
many matcha powder as I could in retail, wherever I go, and
3:52
especially Japan as well. And I would drink, you know,
3:54
experiment. And then about two to three
3:57
years somewhere, maybe like for about two to three years, maybe
4:03
five to six years ago, I was trying really hard to get like
4:07
the perfect forming for matcha after seeing a lot of influences
4:11
and seeing a lot of like nice forming videos and pictures.
4:14
I was trying to get that for myself.
4:16
And I was really experimenting a lot.
4:19
And slowly through experimentations and trying, I
4:22
figure out how. And I kind of like, I'm quite
4:24
stubborn. I didn't really want to use like
4:27
measuring apparatus. I, I didn't want to use like
4:29
thermometers to measure the temperature of the water.
4:32
I kind of just like to wave it naturally, like straight from my
4:36
water dispenser. And I don't use like mineral
4:39
water. I mean, I know filtered water is
4:40
bad taste, but yeah, it's the easiest way to do it.
4:43
So I kind of like, do it naturally.
4:45
And I enjoy, like, figuring out how to make matcha using my own
4:51
quotes in my own ways. Yeah.
4:53
But I also kind of wanted to mention the first hand that I'm
4:56
not trained in traditional tea ceremonies.
4:58
So I try to call myself like a modern matcha fanatic.
5:02
But as much as I can, I try to embody the feelings, the
5:06
intentions and also the philosophies of like,
5:09
traditional tea ceremonies when I make my matcha.
5:13
So as I drank more and more matcha, I started to recognize
5:16
the flavor of umami profile. And I also realized that the
5:20
more umami matcha is, it also means high quality because
5:24
sometimes I love matcha so much, I tend to overdose on caffeine
5:28
and my body shows signs of injection.
5:30
But I also realized that the higher the quality the matcha
5:34
is, the more I'm able to intake and enjoy.
5:37
So then this changed my perception of matcha and
5:40
realized that, you know, like high quality matcha is not just
5:43
purely in taste, but it also has significant health benefits and
5:47
it any changes like significant changes that it can do to your
5:51
body like for the high quality matcha.
5:53
For sure, very cool. I've noticed too that the high
5:56
umami matcha makes me feel better.
5:59
I don't know if it's just more L theanine a better sense of
6:02
Wellness compared to, you know, less umami forward matcha, but I
6:06
feel great after consuming a really umami heavy matcha.
6:11
But I think that associations that led to my ME like
6:15
developing a preference for umami taste.
6:18
Yeah, I kind of believe that it is the L theanine like because
6:21
when there is more days of shading, whether or not it is
6:25
Hong Zu or like the artificial material used for the shading
6:29
technique, it kind of produces more L theanine and that
6:32
produces more calmness and it balances out the the spike in
6:37
alertness from the caffeine. Yeah, interesting.
6:41
Just out of my own curiosity, I've not been to Singapore in
6:47
almost like 5-6 years. 2018 you were there 2018 when I was from
6:51
work. What what is the matcha scene
6:54
look like right now in Singapore?
6:56
Like, do you see that very frequently in coffee shops or do
7:00
you have like like matcha specialty shop in Singapore as
7:04
well? Now there are two specialty
7:07
matcha shops in Singapore, their major brands called Machaya,
7:11
which is basically another name for Matcha House and also Vala
7:16
HVALA. So these two are the most major
7:20
brands and they're always competing with each other in
7:23
terms of locations and and popping up here and there with
7:27
supposedly major investments from investors.
7:30
They have been around in Singapore for probably maybe 7
7:34
or 10 years. Yeah.
7:36
And in recent years the popularity of Macha is growing
7:39
quite a lot. So even like for example
7:43
Japanese festival related events in Singapore, there will be pop
7:48
ups serving Macha cha latos, there will be pop up serving
7:52
like Macha drinks. And that is an increasing demand
7:56
for Macha workshops in Singapore up to corporate events as well.
8:00
And even as you go to more and more cafes, you will start to
8:04
see matcha being offered as an option in drinks.
8:08
And also I would say that when you ask almost anybody like do
8:13
you like matcha? And they'll most probably say
8:15
yes. But as the weather they like
8:19
really ushucha matcha drinkers. I mean, that's another thing.
8:23
I think quite a lot of them in Singapore right now, they still
8:26
prefer like the more robust flavor profile for matcha.
8:31
So like the more bitter, slightly astringent, slow, long,
8:35
there is some maybe grassiness or vegetable or slight umami
8:40
coming out that would be considered a good matcha.
8:43
And and I think Singaporeans currently, they still enjoy
8:47
their matcha in in a form of bakes or confectionaries.
8:52
Like for example, like matcha baked boxes.
8:54
I just received 1 today. They will make matcha terrines,
8:58
Macha shoe paths, Macha medellines, things like that.
9:01
So it it almost gets sold out immediately when wow on chip.
9:08
So so yeah, the demand for this is quite high end.
9:11
As a Macha like fan in Singapore like maybe 8 or 10 years ago, I
9:16
would say that it's increasing in popularity.
9:19
So that's also what encourages me to set out to do this
9:23
business because I, I mean, to be honest, I'm a little bit
9:26
scared because I'm not sure all the investments that put in so
9:30
far away pay off. But from what I'm seeing, like
9:32
it's getting more popular in Singapore, yeah.
9:34
Curious because Singapore is such a diverse place, You have
9:37
like a large Chinese population, South Asian, Malay, probably a
9:43
lot of foreign expats as well. Do you notice any demographic
9:46
segmentation based on much of interest in Singapore or is it
9:51
just seem to be everyone? I think at least from my circle
9:55
and from what I've heard from other business owners who are in
9:59
the industry, I would say most of the Macha consumers are
10:05
Singaporean Chinese. And then you have like a small
10:07
percentage who are Singaporean Malays.
10:10
But other than that I haven't really encountered like other
10:15
Macha fans of other ethnicity, which I'm sure there are.
10:18
It's just that probably I haven't met them yet.
10:20
But I know we were doing some work in India two years ago and
10:25
I was just recently back in Delhi for a little while and I
10:28
was searching to see if there was any matcha scene at all and
10:32
we didn't see any. So it.
10:34
Was probably the Chai drinking. Maybe yeah, too strong Thai.
10:40
Is really too Singapore? I mean not as big as matcha but
10:44
Chai is picking up popularity as well.
10:46
Interesting. It's cool.
10:48
So across your social media platforms, you talk a lot about
10:51
intentional learning and your sort of learning journey.
10:54
So what are some of the principles that you've
10:56
discovered in making a better cup of matcha as you've improved
11:01
your own tea practice over the years and as your preference has
11:05
drifted more and more towards these umami heavy like much more
11:09
premium ceremonial grade profile or offerings?
11:14
So since for most consumers in the world we do not practice
11:17
traditional tea ceremonies, all this that I'm sharing will be
11:21
based on my own interpretation of how like a modern macha
11:24
drinker might be in today's society.
11:26
You can call me somewhat of an Urasenke style macha
11:30
practitioner because I I tend to enjoy the smooth macha foam and
11:37
I relish in how smooth and, and how it plays with the light and
11:41
I would sew the foam around. So it's really satisfying for
11:44
me. Though I also enjoy using my
11:48
dark colored suit bamboo, kind of like Suzu Dake bamboo Chasen
11:52
to waste my matcha. So that's, that's in a way
11:54
unlike Urasenke, which uses like the white white bamboo to whisk.
11:59
So it's kind of like a mix of both and I, and that's why I say
12:03
that I don't really belong to any traditional tea ceremony
12:08
ritual. But of course, one of the main
12:10
philosophy that I think is important is that it's important
12:13
to find your own routine. Like from washing your TOS to
12:17
rinsing the TOS with hot water to like drying your tea Ware and
12:22
making tea and cleaning up process, all of these steps.
12:25
It's important to find your own routine and try to incorporate
12:29
that into your own daily routine.
12:31
I would encourage everyone who's listening on the podcast to
12:34
drink, to try to drink matcha every day because of like the
12:37
health benefits and and how it's so good at replacing coffee and
12:41
essentially discover and find your own matcha making routine.
12:44
That's really no strict ways to make matcha.
12:48
So for myself, I normally would open my bag of matcha, I would
12:52
take a few good sniffs at the matcha powder and sometimes I
12:57
would take my chashuku and then I will eat the powder raw.
13:03
Really interesting. OK.
13:06
So I so I kind of feel that the best way to like the best proof
13:13
of a good quality matcha is eating the powder raw.
13:17
So I kind of like, I'm quite extreme that way.
13:20
And even before, like I started Matsu Macha, when I try all the
13:23
samples, I would try to eat a powder raw first.
13:26
So I overdose quite easily because I'm eating a lot.
13:29
Yeah. So after that, then I will warm
13:31
the bowl. I will feel the warm of the bowl
13:34
on my face. And I would sift the powder in
13:36
or I would shine the bowl against the sunlight to take a
13:39
good look at the color of the powder to see like how fresh it
13:43
is. And then I'll take a few good
13:45
sneeze from the bowl and then I'll make koi cha.
13:48
And then from the koi cha I will add in more water to make usucha
13:51
like the normal matcha. So so that with.
13:53
The leftover from the bowl that's still touching it.
13:57
Yes, yes. And I kind of put, I mean from
14:00
the start I already put like 4G that's like my normal matcha
14:04
routine. And then I kind of like take two
14:06
big sips of that, that koi cha and and then I would make the
14:10
leftover with matcha. And I think there will be left
14:13
like maybe 2.5g, which is just about right for Usucha.
14:17
And the temperature of the water is really, really important as
14:20
well. Like sometimes I would take just
14:22
5 minutes away to look at my phone and like the water
14:25
temperature can just like change quite drastically.
14:28
And the quality of the forming that I do when I waste will be
14:32
affected as well. So it's quite important to do
14:35
things a little bit faster when when we are just whisking the
14:39
matcha and also like the matcha powder that we purchase also
14:44
matter in like the level of forming that we can get to make
14:48
that perfect bowl of matcha, at least for that perfect forming.
14:52
I put it on my IG reels yesterday that from my knowledge
14:57
that there are probably about 7500 to about 10,000 stone mills
15:02
in the whole of Japan from some research.
15:07
And that means that, you know, not all matcha powder are ground
15:10
equally at like 40 grams per hour.
15:12
So the rest of it so, so this is equivalent to about I guess
15:17
maybe 15% of the entire matcha supply in Japan.
15:21
Like maybe the other 85% could be using ball mailing it maybe
15:25
10 kilograms per hour. I'm not sure.
15:27
But probably you guys have more clear information on this.
15:31
But this is just what I know. We were saw that on your
15:35
Instagram. We're actually wondering.
15:37
That was the first time I'd ever heard any statistic about the
15:40
number of Ishiusus that there were in Japan.
15:44
So that that information is very new to us too.
15:46
Yeah. Yeah.
15:47
It's that was a cool. Statistic.
15:49
Yeah, that that statistics came from a book.
15:51
So I would say that it's somewhat reliable, but it's a
15:55
little bit dated. Yeah.
15:57
OK. So that's why I would say that
15:59
it's it's estimated because I'm not sure what's the number of
16:02
issues show now in in Japan. Yeah, yeah.
16:07
So, so I would say that saving a matcha before whisking is also
16:12
like super important because without saving that, then there
16:15
would be clumps at the bottom of the bowl and also warming the
16:18
chest and before use would really help in preventing
16:22
breakage for the child stand as well.
16:24
And I think one last thing is that very, very important to me
16:27
is that I truly believe that our inner scape will reflect onto
16:31
the quality of the matcha that we brew and we make.
16:34
So every time I make my matcha, I try to ensure that my mind is
16:38
quiet. My mind is my mind isn't racing
16:41
and I'm mindful of every movement and the surroundings as
16:45
well. Once I'm calm, I think that my
16:48
both mature becomes better and more enjoyable.
16:50
That's great. Yeah, I do a similar thing in my
16:53
own tea practice too. It's a great excuse to really
16:58
take the time to indulge in a moment of presence.
17:02
Very therapeutical. Yeah.
17:05
So that's why like for my tagline for much too much, I've
17:08
decided on this tagline, which isn't really released yet, but
17:12
it's going to be called like, take a moment for yourself.
17:15
And I think that's really important, like for every day.
17:17
For sure. Yeah, love it.
17:20
And the technique of koicha lenta usicha is very
17:23
interesting. I've never heard of anyone doing
17:26
that in their personal practice. But I can totally see.
17:28
That I have seen it in this is about 10 years ago I was
17:33
attending Orasenke Robi Rocky festival ceremony session and
17:41
they made a really, really high end bowl of koicha.
17:46
And I remember the event organizers saying, ah, we're
17:49
actually going to take the leftover bits of this bowl and
17:52
make an usucha because it was such a special matcha and they
17:55
didn't want to waste it. But I never, it never occurred
17:57
to me to do that in my own practice because you really get
18:00
a lot more sensory information. You can experience the tea plain
18:05
and very concentrated and then, you know, with, with foam and in
18:09
a more light way. It's I need to I need to include
18:13
that part of my. Practice.
18:14
It's good sensory trajectory. Yeah.
18:16
Yeah, like, like for me, I tend to extract as as much umami
18:20
flavors as I can like from the matcha.
18:22
So I kind of feel that like like taking a good sniff of the
18:26
matcha powder, even like eating the powder with raw, making it
18:30
into koicha and uchicha is like the it's like the full sweet of
18:34
the matcha umami flavour profile.
18:37
Yeah, you really get to know the tea in a way that you couldn't
18:40
otherwise. Yeah, it's it's really cool.
18:43
So I kind of like do that. Like, I mean, maybe I'm just
18:46
greedy. Very cool.
18:48
So Brian, so as you're going to start your new journey
18:52
Matsumacha, like what's your sourcing philosophy like?
18:56
Where do you source your tea from and what do you what would
19:00
you consider to be a part of your portfolio?
19:02
Yeah. So Matsumacha is positioned to
19:06
be a premium brand in Singapore that serves only premium level
19:10
much a powder compared to what is currently available in the
19:14
Singapore market right now. So it is created to fill that
19:18
gap, that market gap. I mean before competitors catch
19:21
up, which I'm sure they can easily catch up because they
19:24
have the distribution network and they have the retail stores.
19:27
I will just need to make sure that my brand is being known
19:30
locally. So I'm trying my best to do that
19:32
right now by building my own Macha community.
19:35
And I think what's helping me is that because of the fact that I
19:38
was from the community in the 1st place locally, so that can
19:42
allow me to penetrate the local market a little bit more easier.
19:46
One of the mission that I have for the brand is really to
19:49
elevate the Singapore Macha scene with way high quality
19:53
Macha Like right now I do feel that the margins that
19:58
competitors are taking this really a lot based on my best
20:01
guess on their cost price. I mean the fact that I do not
20:05
have a retail store or tea house maybe just yet.
20:08
I am able to kind of like eat into my own supposed margins and
20:13
hopefully run the business in a sustainable manner while
20:16
providing really high quality mature for the Singapore market.
20:19
So I mean just in comparison to to our neighbour like in
20:24
Thailand, right, Thailand has such.
20:26
High quality matcha everywhere, you know, and the culture there
20:30
is like it's, it's, it's either coffee or matcha.
20:34
Like they would ask would you want coffee or would you want
20:36
matcha? And it's come to that, that that
20:39
adoption. So I kind of feel that it would
20:41
be good that we can have something like this in Singapore
20:44
as well. And at the same time, serve
20:46
matcha that is healthy at the same time that is delicious.
20:49
Yeah. I just hope that matzo matcha
20:52
can work and I will be able to make it sustainable and
20:56
introduce matcha like really high quality matcha to Singapore
20:59
fans and a kind of acceptable price point because premium is
21:02
definitely expensive, right? But I kind of hope to lower that
21:05
to make it acceptable for the market.
21:07
So, so that is in a way the mission for the brand and the
21:11
the philosophy of course, will be to to introduce high quality
21:15
matcha. So in all of currently, we have
21:19
3 matcha product right now called Matsu Take and Ume So
21:25
pine trees and bamboo and plum. And basically they're all 100%
21:30
hand picked only. And they're all stone meal at 40
21:34
grams per hour. And for Matsu and Take, they are
21:39
competition grade level infused, which means that they're not
21:43
fully competition grade because they will be definitely too
21:46
expensive for the market to adopt at this current stage
21:50
right now of the current market maturity.
21:52
So it's infused in and both Taki and Matsu only uses Asahi and
21:58
Samidori cultivars. So I try to introduce a much
22:02
higher quality and rare matcha, if you say so like to the
22:06
market. Yeah, very cool, very cool.
22:09
So. Brian, you mentioned about your,
22:15
you as the owner of this digital marketing company, how do you
22:19
think about, you know, targeting and precisioning for Matsumacha
22:22
in terms of your, you know, years of experience already in
22:26
the digital marketing work so. Matsumacha is a pretty niche, I
22:30
would say a pretty niche kind of company in the industry I would
22:33
say, because number one only serves matcha powder and #2
22:38
currently it is only an e-commerce store and #3 it only
22:42
serves the premium segment of matcha drinkers in Singapore.
22:45
So I kind of think that being niche and being very deep in the
22:49
segment makes it easier to penetrate the market than a
22:52
generic matcha brand. Because to be honest, there are
22:55
multiple matcha brands right now in Singapore that are kind of
22:59
generic and serving multiple other kinds of teas as well.
23:02
But when they don't double down in particular niche, it makes it
23:06
harder to be memorable to consumers.
23:09
They would think of you as probably kind of like a, yeah,
23:13
you offer a lot of things and, and, and stuff, but it becomes
23:16
very forgettable as well. So that was like the number one
23:19
principle that I have when I wanted to create a brand to make
23:23
it memorable and, and also to create like a strong branding
23:28
around Matsu Matcha. And as I mentioned, like my
23:31
specialty and advantage is that I started off as a member of the
23:34
matcha fan community. So I'm already like connected
23:37
with a number of matcha fans locally because I used to share
23:40
a lot of Matcha information like maybe which are my top matcha
23:45
brands and things like that. And then the next advantage is
23:48
that for an e-commerce store, digital marketing efforts like
23:51
e-mail marketing and digital advertising is really, really
23:54
important. So having worked with dozens of
23:57
B to CE commerce brands that maybe generates maybe 7 figures
24:02
a year and things like that, I have found a somewhat waiting
24:05
formula for maximizing the rowest.
24:08
For the non industry practitioners, it just means
24:10
revenue on advertising spend, which is for every dollar of
24:13
advertising spend, how many dollars does it create for you?
24:17
So I have created before 10X maybe even on normal month 7-8
24:23
X, which means that my clients gave me a dollar and I create $8
24:27
of revenue for them. So definitely there are
24:28
profitability over there. And my recommendation for them
24:33
would be to spend as much as you can because it's it's pure
24:36
profits. So although I have achieved such
24:39
results for some of my clients, however, I'm still a little bit
24:43
scared when it comes to my own brand because it's just a
24:46
different ball game altogether. So it doesn't mean that I will
24:48
be able to perform for my own brand.
24:51
So I guess I have to wish myself best of luck like for that.
24:54
We wish you best of luck. Yeah, it's like the algorithm
24:58
for Meta and for Google is like a black box and you have to
25:02
season the pixel and train the machine and make the machine
25:05
learn in order to get like good performance.
25:08
But once you're on track, then you're pretty on track.
25:10
Yeah. So I would, I would also think
25:13
that the key to running a successful digital advertising
25:15
campaign is to think in terms of like first principles and to
25:19
have like a thoughtful customer funnel strategy.
25:23
I normally start off with like with clients, for example, like
25:26
which are they available first party data that they have?
25:30
And then I start to work from there.
25:31
And then I would create campaigns that would help to
25:34
build more data points. And then we'll branch out the
25:37
campaigns and then we will experiment and then we will weed
25:40
out where you kind of like cure of all the lower performing
25:44
campaigns and then we will double down the high performing
25:47
ones. And and that's kind of how we
25:48
get like a diverse group of campaigns that can help to hatch
25:53
against like any ups and downs in the machine learning, kind of
25:56
generate a stable row as it's similar to investment portfolio
26:00
strategy, I guess. Yeah.
26:02
A. Little bit, yeah.
26:04
That's interesting. So that's a very technical part.
26:07
Interesting. Do you tend to funnel all of
26:09
your traffic on to? I will assume that maybe in the
26:13
future you'll have like a website for your online shop or
26:17
to a major social platform media like the Instagram.
26:21
Page. Like what would you recommend or
26:24
what's your thinking about this like funneling traffic?
26:27
Yeah. So, so let's just assume that
26:29
number one, you are going to target on the website and also
26:35
on Instagram, right? I think firstly we have to, I
26:39
mean, I'll explain this concept about what is rented data.
26:44
So this is interesting because when it comes to meta targeting
26:48
settings, we are only able to target people who have done a
26:52
particular action or call to action in the past 180 days.
26:56
So say for example, we were to run a campaign that brings in
27:00
followers for your Instagram page.
27:02
Or say we were to run a campaign that retargets people who
27:05
engaged with your IG page before or who have DM you before.
27:09
And it's also one of the reasons why you will see people running
27:12
campaigns and say please DM me For more information.
27:15
That's because they're trying to capture that data for
27:17
retargeting later on. However, this data will only be
27:21
present in your system for 180 days.
27:24
So after that, say for example you had to turn off your
27:26
campaign for 180 days, then you cannot lose that data, right.
27:30
So that is something that we have to be aware when we are
27:33
running campaigns and especially when we turn off and on
27:36
campaigns. So of course, the best way to
27:38
run a campaign will be to spread out your budget and then to run
27:41
Evergreen and don't ever stop them.
27:43
I mean, it works out matters interesting.
27:45
Yeah, it I mean, it naturally works in matters best interest
27:48
that it can get the most advertising spend from
27:50
advertisers. So the actual best way to
27:53
actually do a digital advertising campaign will be to
27:58
collect their e-mail addresses. Of course, with the right PDPA
28:00
policies and regulations in place.
28:03
Once you have their e-mail addresses, then you can retarget
28:05
them through e-mail marketing. And because it's e-mail
28:07
marketing, there are literally no regulations for that.
28:11
So you can write however you want.
28:12
You don't have to care about like Meta regulations when you
28:16
run your ad copies or things like that.
28:18
I mean, for our industry, there is nothing really to be
28:20
concerned about because it's just like B to C and it's
28:23
consumer products. But for other industries like
28:26
getting their e-mail addresses are very, very important.
28:28
And I would say these are permanent assets to your company
28:30
that can help in machine learning in Meta, there is a
28:33
setting that we can actually upload customers e-mail
28:36
addresses. Of course, only when they opt in
28:39
into marketing comms, I'll be able to do that.
28:41
And so when you do that, it helps Meta to recognize this
28:44
group of audiences and create look alike audiences of those.
28:46
And so then you can reach out to people who are like them and to
28:51
acquire them as a customer. So that is what I would say a
28:55
more permanent like data as compared to like a rented data
29:00
as you would. So back to your question, very
29:02
interesting. Thank you for that.
29:06
Like master class that was this is a new world.
29:09
It's quite impressive. So this podcast has become like
29:13
a digital advertising kind of podcast.
29:15
But yeah, back to that. Question We like to explore all
29:17
aspects of matcha and. I'm sure that our listeners will
29:20
find it quite useful. Yeah, it's, it's definitely
29:24
important to understand like where we are spending our money
29:27
on when we try to acquire customers, right.
29:29
And since there are so many practitioners listening to this
29:31
podcast right now, so back to the question of like, is it
29:34
better to run a campaign to direct to your Instagram page or
29:37
your website? I would say that it is most
29:41
important to run to your website because there are multiple
29:46
things that you can do when you run them to your website as
29:49
compared to your Instagram. So I'm going to list a few
29:52
examples. And one of it is actually
29:54
because when you run campaign to your Instagram page, it
29:57
basically just get them to be aware of your page, but it does
30:01
not necessarily convert them into a consumer immediately.
30:06
And I think for a consumer product, it is mainly induced
30:10
demand with a rather short sales cycle.
30:12
So we can actually induce that demand and convert them directly
30:16
to customers in quite a shorter period of time as compared to
30:18
like AB to B SAS kind of solution long sales cycle kind
30:21
of stuff. So with website targeting, we
30:24
are able to tell the pixel on Meta to optimize towards landing
30:31
page views, which means to scroll your page and to view the
30:34
content and which for the and and wait for the page to finish
30:37
loading and kind of like to view your content.
30:39
So we're able to optimize towards that.
30:41
We are also able to optimize towards direct purchases on your
30:44
platform kind of like Shopify. And we are also able to retarget
30:48
people who have, who are at the top X percentile who have spent
30:53
the most time on your website and to retarget them to come
30:56
back to buy and exclude people who have not bought before.
31:00
So then you would be creating a funnel retargeting people who
31:03
have been to your site, but then they did not purchase from you.
31:07
You would also realize that when you do shopping on websites and
31:12
you added to cart, but you did not buy the item, then maybe one
31:15
week later you realize that you have an e-mail coming in that
31:20
says that we missed you. Here's like a 5% off you left.
31:25
So that is part of A to cut drop off retargeting strategy and by
31:30
by running traffic to your website you're able to do that.
31:34
Interesting, fascinating. Wow.
31:36
Can you use this type of insights to kind of find out
31:39
what people like like from a matcha products perspective?
31:43
Like say you have like, I don't know, 20 or 100 skews of matcha.
31:46
I don't think we'll ever have that many when we launch, but
31:51
you can probably use it for some like portfolio rationalization
31:57
to decide what to keep or not. Yeah, OK.
32:00
So, so since we are ready so far off deep into that digital
32:04
advertising topic, I will touch on one more stuff which is cross
32:07
selling. So actually you're able to
32:09
retarget people who have purchased particular sale
32:12
products from you and retarget them to buy another sale
32:15
product. So say for example, people who
32:18
have bought the Sanko a ceremonial bowl, but you exclude
32:23
people like you can exclude people who maybe did not visit a
32:27
web page or people who did not buy other products.
32:29
And then you show them an ad through maximize rich settings
32:34
to maximize the rich for them. So you pay less per click
32:37
because it's for rich and it's for awareness.
32:39
But since they already know your brand then just a rich would do
32:42
to let them know you can serve them an ad that sells your other
32:45
products that are not the Sunco. Bowl.
32:47
OK, interesting. And that's like cross selling.
32:50
The other way you can go is to segment your customer data point
32:53
as well. Say for example, you have you
32:58
have maybe a list of 1000 customers and then you'll
33:02
probably want to segment the top spenders from there.
33:06
And you want to use like the data point to get localized
33:10
audiences to find more top spenders.
33:12
OK. Fascinating.
33:15
Very cool. Yeah.
33:16
There's no way much too much. I won't be successful, I think,
33:19
when you combine these two worlds because it's.
33:23
Very, very, Your Honor. Thank you.
33:26
Trajectory. No, I really hope so.
33:30
Kind of like, but that's also like one reason why I wanted to
33:33
start much too much because of the knowledge that I have in
33:36
digital advertising and also in like the mature as a product.
33:40
I kind of feel that you'll be a very wasted opportunity.
33:43
Should I not pursue this and try it for myself because should I
33:47
succeed in this, then it's the best testimony that I can get
33:49
because it's a proven thing, right?
33:51
But should I fail, then it will be it will be.
33:57
So it works both ways. Worst case scenario you have a.
34:01
New data point. New data.
34:03
Point a giant pile of high quality matcha for you to
34:06
consume. Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
34:09
That's. True, Yeah.
34:11
Where do you draw inspiration from as a founder, both on the
34:15
digital advertising side and that strategy, as well as on the
34:19
Matcha brand and the whole philosophical underpinnings
34:25
behind, like why people like Matcha?
34:28
Lifestyle. Lifestyle Like where do you draw
34:30
inspiration from? Yeah.
34:32
So like inspiration wise, I think that, I mean, from the
34:36
start, I enjoy the process of creation and much more so when
34:40
it's a new brand and it's something that I love, which is
34:43
Matcha. And I would say that the
34:45
inspiration is actually drawn from many different areas, like
34:49
the past businesses that I've ran before and the past like
34:53
entrepreneurial stuff that I've done and also the many
34:57
entrepreneurs that I've met along the way being my clients
34:59
or just friends who are running businesses.
35:02
So I can't really pin it to any particular source of
35:05
inspiration. Rather, I normally would tend to
35:09
think in first principles and to see what would work best based
35:13
on the cards that I have on hand right now.
35:15
And I would say that based on my experience in Method B, which is
35:19
my digital advertising agency, is is really important to be
35:22
scrappy and kind of like don't be perfect because otherwise it
35:26
probably wouldn't launch. And I mean, moving fast is
35:29
better than moving perfectly. And I kind of just take general
35:33
lessons from entrepreneurship. But of course, it's my first
35:36
foray in B2C. I would say profitability
35:39
calculations are very important and we have to have some
35:43
contingency plan in place and also like having a plan for
35:47
market penetration is super important and as well as knowing
35:50
the product first hand. So I do know that there are some
35:54
business owners out there who sell products, but they do not
35:59
know the product very well and they already start to sell them.
36:02
And I think it it might not be, I mean, personally I wouldn't do
36:06
that because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I
36:09
don't understand my product and I try to sell it to consumers.
36:12
So for me, I, whatever I do, and I've heard from another good
36:18
friend of mine who is like A8 figure entrepreneur as well.
36:22
He told me that whatever decisions that he make in
36:25
business, he wants to make sure that he's able to sleep soundly
36:29
at night. And that resonates a lot with me
36:31
as well, that no matter what decision I do, I just have to,
36:36
I, I have to be able to approve it with full conscience.
36:39
And then of course, being a fan of the product and being a super
36:42
user, the product helps a lot. And also of course, to kind of
36:45
just enjoy the process and kind of limit the startup capital.
36:49
I think you kind of know what I mean, because R&D is a lot of
36:52
money, yeah. And then only and only when we
36:57
see some sense of profitability, do we try to scale from there.
37:01
Yeah. Are you planning to just stay
37:03
within Singapore? Are you going to expand to the
37:06
rest of Southeast Asia or or even further or is it just going
37:09
to focus on Singapore for now? At the very start, I would say
37:13
just in Singapore for now, but because I do have some fans from
37:19
the page that are from overseas as well who mentioned that they
37:23
would like to try my much higher.
37:24
Thank you so much. I do intend to maybe ship in a
37:27
region too. But again, it is really a
37:29
secondary right now. I think I want to better serve
37:32
the Singapore market and to see whether am I able to maximize
37:36
the demand here and when I have the capacity to do so, which I
37:41
hope I will or maybe not, because then you'll be a good
37:44
problem to expand towards the region.
37:47
Or you can add us to the list of people who are interested in
37:49
your matcha outside of Singapore.
37:51
Looks amazing in the pictures and especially the packaging.
37:54
I really like the stories that you do with the whole process of
37:58
coming up with the packaging and the aesthetics and the printing.
38:00
I don't know, it's some like nice behind the scenes that you
38:03
don't usually get from matcha brands, so.
38:06
That makes consumer feel very relatable and very close.
38:10
To the brand and really every detail, like you can really feel
38:14
the intention in the brand and the way that that was
38:17
communicated. It's like if, if, if that like
38:22
little thing is so well considered, then you think
38:24
everything else must be so well considered too.
38:26
Yeah. Intentionality.
38:28
Yeah, that was like the whole point of it.
38:31
And I think you summarize it very, very well.
38:33
So thank you so much because I really spent a lot of time
38:36
trying to document and share the process.
38:38
And I kind of feel that because I'm a solo founder in this, so I
38:43
kind of feel quite lonely as well.
38:45
I try to connect with the community and ask them like,
38:48
what do you think about this? And some of them actually edited
38:51
my designs. They sent it back to me.
38:54
And some of them actually gave very good feedback.
38:56
Like 1 of it was that can we make the labels more easily
39:01
readable, like more legible? Can we make the Matsu emblem,
39:06
which is which is the pine tree emblem, make it more prominent,
39:12
like at the top of the can? Yeah.
39:16
So there is a lot of intention to the whole design, down to the
39:19
logo itself. Maybe since we're at a logo,
39:22
maybe I'll just take this opportunity to share that the
39:25
logo for my too much is kind of like a pine tree motif.
39:29
But then there is a golden color stroke below.
39:32
And that golden color stroke actually signifies the sun rays
39:34
passing through the pine tree. And I've always been very
39:37
inspired by, like, pine trees, Japanese pine trees in tea
39:41
gardens because I think, like, it's a really beautiful thing to
39:45
be able to enjoy a bowl of matcha and then to enjoy, like,
39:48
a bonsai, a pine tree or like a like, a whole planted tree.
39:53
Like in the garden. It's a real luxury.
39:56
Yeah. You.
39:56
Can definitely get like those traditional tea house vibes in
39:59
the motifs through that abstraction, at least I I
40:02
definitely do. Yeah.
40:04
It really shines through. Thank you so much for.
40:08
Sharing all these. Situations, yeah.
40:10
And all the extra stuff that was that was you really opened our
40:13
minds that we have a lot of research to do.
40:16
Now, yeah. Yeah, like the medical and final
40:19
strategy kind of stuff that was like totally unprepared, but I'm
40:23
just happy to share. Yeah.
40:26
We could tell it came very natural, yeah.
40:29
Recently years of experience. Yeah, it's just by nature I'm
40:33
just like A and yeah, I just share the stuff.
40:36
Thanks so much, Brian. I think that's all we have time
40:38
for today. If you enjoyed this episode,
40:40
please consider sharing it with friend or giving it five stars.
40:43
It really helps boost our visibility across the
40:46
distribution platforms for podcasts.
40:48
And thanks for listening. And we'll see you on the next
40:51
one. Thanks for the.
40:52
Future thank you so much. Bye bye.