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My Child Almost Died - Paul Feesey || SLP382 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Speak Life Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas Thorrogood again here, I'm afraid, uh, assistant media producer at Speak Life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I've been doing these podcast intros and middle bits and end bits for a while now.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you may remember, well, you you'll undoubtedly remember that Paul Feasey did a much better job of these intros um before.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I have some very exciting news because Paul Feesey is back, back to the Speak Life Frey.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you're about to hear a conversation that he had with Glenn.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Went out live on our YouTube channel on Monday at 8 pm.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in this conversation, Paul talks about why he has been away for so long.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you are as excited as I am to hear his voice on this podcast once again.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I will hand straight over to Paul Feesey as he reflects on the last time he was here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: The last time we were sitting in these chairs was June 14th or something like that.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: June 14th.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even remember what we talked about.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: That was the episode.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: You'd have to go back and see, wouldn't we?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um take us back to you check your phone after after that episode, and what do you discover?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, so um Becca, my wife, had taken our youngest daughter, Libby, who at the time was about 14 months old, um taken her to the doctors, because she'd been a little bit unwell in the sense that she'd had a cough, but you know, it wasn't that bad.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: She would she'd been coughing since about January.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but mostly it wasn't a huge issue.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: She was quite happy and in the she would cough.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: It just got worse in the last couple of weeks before that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: She would cough in the night, but then she'd be right as rain, you know, after five minutes of coughing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So Becca had been to the doctors and the doctor had sent her off to our local hospital just to have a look.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Becca had messaged and when I saw it on the phone, they said that they thought um Libby might have pneumonia.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um which, you know, we were kind of like, oh well.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, talking to Becca, they didn't seem particularly they didn't seem particularly bothered, you know, the the hospital in the sense that they were like, it's fine, we'll just crack on and stuff.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So she um yeah, she stayed, she she has stayed overnight in the hospital there.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um yeah, then they did an ultrasound the next day and found quite a lot of fluid around her heart and her lungs.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and at that point as well, like, because Becca rang me up um and you know, said about it, and she the doctor didn't seem particularly fussed, you know.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: He he said that they would just drain it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it seemed like quite a normal procedure, you know.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: They although they sent us up to the Evelina in London, so that was kind of 35.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas's that it's right, yeah, it's attached to St.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas's.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a children's hospital.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's about so it's about 35 miles away.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which um yeah, they got blue lighted up to there.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even at that point, I mean you I think we were kind of just thinking, well, from what we'd been told, it was it everything seemed pretty routine, you know, as as much as you know can be routine in that sense.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so they were they were gonna do this drain on on her, and Becca had been told it would take about an hour.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it happened, I think it was about 10 o'clock in the evening, you know.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at home looking after the other two girls.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that took longer than expected, sort of it was just kind of running on and on, and then Becca rung me and um said that they'd had like some kind of complications where they'd found basically after they'd drained this fluid, there was air getting into the chest somehow, and they didn't really know where the air was coming from.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, normally you'd assume if there's air in your chest, it's coming from your lungs and stuff, and they wondered whether they might have pierced uh, you know, punctured her lung and um in the process of going in to do the drain, which you know was quite rare.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I mean they it turned out they hadn't punctured their lung, they never really quite got to the bottom of where the air came from.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know it was it was just a bit kind of strange because I was you know at one o'clock in the morning I'm talking on the phones of a consultant.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you're kind of at that stage, you're it just feels a bit bizarre to be having a conversation at one in the morning with a doctor because because stuff was supposed to be quite straightforward, you know.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Pneumonia, they're doctors, they'll handle it.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um so you know, I went to bed that night.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was gonna go up to London in the morning anyway.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I Becca called me about I don't know, sometime before six in the morning, um, and just said, like, you need to come asked them if she was gonna be alright and or she was gonna make it, and they said they don't know.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously that you that was just a bit strange, you know.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You it just felt like a surreal thing because you're you're kind of thinking, well, hang on, she's only had this chest strain, there was nothing particularly wrong with it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't think.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so um I got on the train earlier kind of than I planned to.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, got up to London, got to the hospital, I don't know, kind of nine-ish in the morning.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of you know went through this nightmare of trying to find the right room and you know, all these kind of things um in a hospital with no signal on your phone and stuff.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, eventually got there and kind of Libby was um uh you know, she didn't look particularly great.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she was just kind of she was wired up.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's maybe like five or six doctors, nurses kind of around her in this kind of room she was in, and she was kind of wired up to various bits and bobs.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um but you know, and uh but Becca seemed to be quite kind of calm about everything at that point.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she'd been there the whole time, so she had more of a sense of what was going on.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um Right, it's just hitting you fresh.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'd literally just walked into the room, really.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I didn't and she looked a bit she didn't look quite like herself, but yeah, you know, um not not drastically different.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, Becha, I remember Becca saying, like, you know, oh she's fine, let's just go and get a cup of tea.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we went to the the kit parents' kitchen, which was just outside the ward, and she was on intensive care.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we're just making this cup of tea there.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: My phone rang and I saw, I was like, Oh, it's a London number, and I kind of answered the phone.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they said, Oh, is it Liberty's dad's?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I said, Yeah, and they said, Oh, you need to come back because she's not very well.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we were I mean, you're literally 20 seconds away from the room, so we just kind of went back in and we, you know, got to the doorway of the room, and uh one of the doctors kind of stopped me on the door and like um he said, Oh her heart stopped.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, um, but we're we're trying to bring her back.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um Wow.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, I mean, it's a little bit of a blur, really.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember looking into the room and seeing her kind of on the table, and they were, you know, it was what appeared to be sort of pandemonium, and I'm sure it was organized, you know, for them.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, obviously she was kind of crashing, you know.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was the you know, you get that kind of alarm and whatnot.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they were kind of doing chest compressions, you know, kind of on her chest.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: She was stripped down completely naked.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the guy just I remember the guy saying, you know, he said, Oh, I've got children, he said, You don't you don't want to see this.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they kind of dragged us out the room and they just kind of plopped us in the corridor, bought some chairs for us, and you know, they still, you know, someone was with us, I think, pretty much the whole time, you know, a nurse or a doctor.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and at that point, I mean I think you're just in a state of shock because you don't quite you know, the day before she was right as rain sitting in the other hospital just eating her lunch, you know, and whatnot, she seemed quite happy.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now you're there, you know, just outside a room knowing that your child's inside.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um And what's going through your head?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because Yeah, you I remember thinking like there's no way she can come back from this, like because she just looked, you know, she just didn't look well, and you think if your heart stopped, this is bad.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it I mean weirdly, I mean you we knew she was still in there and she was you know, they were working on her, but your head is immediately going, Well, what are we or my head was saying, Well, what are we gonna tell, what are we gonna tell the other girls?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how are we gonna tell them that you know their sisters died?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what how's that gonna affect them?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What will we say at the funeral?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you start planning all these things, even though it's still kind of going on right next to you.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your head is just kind of, I guess, trying to make some kind of I guess maybe it's a coping mechanism to start planning for the worst.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I remember, you know, Becca just saying, like, she can't die.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and Becca was I mean, we were both really upset, and yeah, and Becca's questioning, you know, should she have known she was sick and could she have done more, you know, did she wait too long and all these kind of things?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so they were trying to bring her back, and they were also gonna put her on a they said once when when we get her back, they wanted to put her on a machine called ECMO, which is basically a kind of machine that pumps blood out of the body and into an artificial lung and back round again.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um it does the work of the heart and the lungs for you, um, which is quite a specialist machine, they don't have it at every hospital, I don't think.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're quite fortunate in that sense.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it took about I think the actual process of getting her on ECMO is about an hour and a half or something like that to get her stabilised because it's full-on, you know, it's surgery really to go down to the valves of the heart and bits and bobs through the neck, so it's quite an involved procedure.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean they'd come out and told us, you know, that she was the heart, she her heart was beating again.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um how long was it not beating for?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't really remember.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it wasn't more than it can't be more than a few minutes because I remember them saying like they weren't, you know, they weren't concerned in one sense that like she'd be not the heart hadn't been beating for a too long, you know.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't, you know, I guess there's a period where they they think damage could have occurred, you know.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I do I do remember one of the doctors, he's a really nice guy actually.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um but he came out at one point before they'd said her heart had started, and he just said, I'm really sorry that this has happened.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Don't say it like that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like for goodness sake, like there's gotta be some training for this, you know.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I remember just at that point, I you know, I thought he was gonna say she died.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um the coffee machine is no longer exactly, you know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was you know, heart in your mouth moment there.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, that day, and then so they got her on this machine, and basically her her body was just filling up with fluid, you know, inside around her chest.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: This stuff they drained was just coming back again, and like she was and then it was like in her abdomen as well, and like her legs started to go cold because the pressure of the fluid was pushing down on the arteries, and so they had to cut open her side and drain her off that way as well.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um she had a lot of fluid.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the doctor said to me that in 24 hours she accumulated two and a half litres of fluid around her chest and her heart, which he said it if it was URI, the equivalent is about 30 litres.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Which is obviously quite a lot.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think you know, at that stage, they didn't know what was going on, you know, and there was this sense, you know, we'd be kind of back in the room after they'd got her on the machine, and that's when you know they see the fluid was still coming, and um there was a sense in in which you didn't know kind of why you you you you just felt like they were just trying to keep her alive and they didn't know what was the problem.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but they had said to us kind of when we were sitting outside that the fluid around the heart and stuff, normally you're they said there were three things, I can only remember two.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: One of them was, you know, so normally it's an inf it can be infection, and the one of the other ones was cancer.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember saying to Becca, like, when I think maybe once her heart was already beating again, you know, just I just wouldn't I wouldn't even care if someone came out and said, Yeah, it's cancer.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because at least then you'd know what the problem was, yeah, yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you can start to do something about it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's because they but because they were so kind of amused by what was going on.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's a phantom killer of your daughter, and it's unnamed.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I mean she she had a bit of a rough morning.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: I c I can't remember how long that all went on really, but by the by the evening she'd kind of you know level out.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was in in the sense of it she was still on intensive care and and whatnot, but um, you know, they moved us out of a room more onto the ward, um, which we kind of took as a good sign.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um is that when the worst photo you've sent me was taken?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably probably like within those that and the days after, because because as well, she was put on this machine, the ECMO machine.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um you to keep blood flowing, they give her something to fin the blood, um, which means that you the fluid in your blood leaks.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um basically they said it just leaks everywhere, so she was getting really bloated as well, so she puffed up.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean if you'd give if you'd lined up a row of children, I wouldn't have been able to tell you that was that was Libby.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, and she'd had surgery the night before, so she had this big gash down her front as well.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um she had how many tubes coming out of her?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah, I think So she had various cannulas and bits in her arms and stuff and groin, and then she had um she had at some point, I think it was six drains.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So basically they just put tubes into where the fluid was coming out into bottles on the floor.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think there were six of those, um, which stayed in for weeks really.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, she was yeah, so those photos like when I sent you guys those things, that would have been pretty pretty early on when she was probably at her worst.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, I mean we s we kind of got through that day, and then then they were they did a CT scan the next morning because they were looking for um cancer and whatever really and just see what might be going on.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we had a we had a meeting with them in the afternoon, and that morning, I mean I remember I'd looked at her and I remember just kind of thinking like, you know, would she ever wake up, you know.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and going into that meeting, yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the meet I hated going into those meetings because you always feel like it's like the room of doom, you know.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: They you know, they just they're gonna tell you something terrible, you know.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um But we so we went in and they they just initially they were talking about various bits and just saying, like, I think I asked, you know, is she gonna get better?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they felt that there was a you know, they couldn't confirm anything, but at least they said we could get her to a stage where she could go home.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, okay, that's positive.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then they said they'd done the CT scan and there was no um, they hadn't found anything really, any cancers or anything, but what they did find was that um because of the machine she'd been on, this what thins the blood, she'd um had a stroke on I think on the right side of her brain, so that would affect her left side.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um which, you know, again, your head starts thinking, you know, well, if we if she comes home, like what's she gonna be like, you know?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and not so much physically, it was more just like mentally, because she was always quite a you know, with it little kid, and she's quite chipper, and you know, she's quite a bubbly little personality, and you know, what would it be like for her sisters to have a home and she's a different child?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, and your head goes to all kinds of selfish things as well, where you think like, you know, are we gonna have a kid who never leaves home because you know, are we gonna be in our 80s looking after a you know 55-year-old child who won't be independent, you know.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um But I strangely I said to the doctor at that point, you know, I said, you know, this morning I was thinking, you know, she might just die.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yours now telling me she can go home.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: You think you might be able to get her home?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, so you know, even though you're saying she's had a stroke, to me this is this bizarrely, it feels like good news.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, which is a strange thing.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um what was the what was the lowest point, do you reckon?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was I mean the the it was only I think that was the Wednesday.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wednesday her heart stops was obviously really low.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it was low, but you don't have time to really think about it.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think it was only the Tuesday after they got to a point where they said they wanted to take her off the ECMO machine, um, because the longer you leave people on it, the more chance there is of another bleed.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so they took her off in the morning, and she was doing really well, and they were quite happy.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the doctors specifically said, he said, you know, we've taken, you know, we have a hundred people we've done ECMO with, and you know, we've only ever put one person back on um again.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, and she was doing really well, and then in the middle of the afternoon, they took us off into the room of doom and kind of said just she wasn't doing so well.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they said they'd give us the option to put her back on the ECMO machine.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: They said they wouldn't offer that again if they didn't feel it was worth it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just really remember it specifically one of the doctors, this Scottish consultant lady, um just like she wasn't doing most of the talking, it was one of the it was the head guy.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know when you're just looking at someone and they're just like red-eyed and watery-eyed, yeah, and you're just thinking, like, man, like like you could tell, I could tell she was fighting it back.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Becca asked, you know, might she die?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember her saying, like, yeah, she might die.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And like I think maybe that was the lowest, maybe that was the lowest point, you know, because I think she'd done so well, yeah, and she'd come off it and it was all looking encouraging, and then suddenly they were saying it's not good.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's when I sent you guys, I think I sent people a message on WhatsApp then.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was just doing voice messages because it was much easier to speak than type.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and just said, you know, they've said there's a good chance of her, you know, dying.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we need a miracle, just pray, you know, there was nothing else we could do really.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um I remember you know that night the church my church in uh Crowborough they had a a Zoom kind of prayer meeting, which was like an emergency meeting, um, which I actually joined from the hospital.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just it was overwhelming, really.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I went on, I think it was like 84, 84 screens, yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and people from church, but people I didn't know either, like from all kinds of places, um, you know, who were friends of friends who'd heard.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they, you know, and so just people just prayed for her.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't I remember I as soon as I got that WhatsApp message, I was went down to the beach.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was just thought I'm just gonna keep praying for Olivia, walked to Sovereign Harbor, and then back up to Beachy Head, and then back to my house again.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like quite a long way.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just and there were so many people praying for you.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was bananas because you know, there were people's, you know, I got a message from a lady who said, you know, I live in you don't know me, I live in Texas, you know, but my nephew is someone you do know, and my ladies' group's praying for you, and then you know, you've had someone who was once an associate at the church who's from Kenya, and so they've told all their Kenyan friends and you're getting messages from getting Kenyan prayer Kenya and then Uganda and South Sudan and the Philippines, and you're like, what's going on?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: They count double.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Those ones count double.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean I don't think it's any I don't think it's any um exaggeration to say that I think at some point it's like thousands of people were praying for her.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just remember coming out of that meeting and going back to the going back to the the ward and they said, Oh, she's had a good couple of hours.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, okay.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I and that was it was strange because I remember coming out of that meeting as well and just feeling kind of like, well, it's it's fine now, you know, we've kind of given it over.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um what does that mean that's fine now?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, so there was a couple of times like that when it was like once we let people know what was going on and we knew people were praying, there was just this sense of well it God's got this.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was never there was never a sense of like, oh I never believed in my head in my head like that means she would definitely be okay.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now we've prayed, God will definitely heal her because I know that's not how it works.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um but a bit of also I think there's I don't think apart from the the odd moment there was ever really a time when I really believed she was gonna die either.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there was just a sense of like, well, it's in God's hands and we know people are praying, and whatever goes on here, we know other people are praying and everywhere.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I mean, yeah, I mean it was just bananas to see like we were kind of updating people on Facebook.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um Because we wanted people to be praying and to be informed.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was yeah, I mean I think that was probably the lowest day because it felt like yeah, they basically said, Oh, it's going well, actually no, it's not now, and get ready.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just mean and also just I remember her lying there on a s like on her side that day as well, once they'd taken these things out and just like I don't know all the anatomy of how it all works, but like she looked awful and like you had to call the nurse over sometimes because there was like blood dripping out of her mouth and stuff, and it was just a pretty horrific thing to look at.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um so tiny, you know, 14 months old.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and yeah, it's just bizarre, really.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we were kind of I think we were just exhausted as well, because we were, you know, they'd given us a room, but one of us would sleep, you know.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Becca would do go to bed at sort of half eight, come back at half three in the morning, and I just, you know, sit up until then and in a chair and then swap over and come back at nine or something.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we were absolutely exhausted and but she had a good night that you know, through that night, they were just you know, she she just did well basically and kind of never really looked back from then.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: She just continued to get stronger.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she had a couple more surgeries and stuff, and they were trying to discover what was going on and you know, fend off fluid and see where fluid was going and where it was coming from.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: When did you get a diagnosis?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um it wasn't until I think we're probably about it was over a week in that they b they began to I think get ideas of at least the area, even though they couldn't be 100% specific about what was wrong.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um they were talking to people in the States, like one place was in Atlanta, like specialist centres.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: There was another place as well, I forget where it was.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was basically to do with her lymphatic system.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we all have kind of lymphatic system you know that produces lymphatic fluid when you you know burn yourself or you know get a blister and it fills with fluid or whatever.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's quite natural, but she in the chest area she had basically overdeveloped vessels that were just kind of leaking.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and when they did some surgery on the Friday, the um the surgeon said they found like he found like 30 places that he stitched up, you know, and he said immediately the anethetist said, Oh, she's really responding, you know, like I I need to give her less stuff, like as soon as he started stitching her up.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was kind of narrowing it down, and then yeah, they were they eventually got this kind of area of the lymphatic system, but basically they said I remember one of the other guys said something like until two it must have been a bit further in than that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: He said something like two weeks ago, I'd never heard of this, you know.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just Googling.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, exactly, you know, it does it's a little bit like that.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they you know, because so what she's got is this thing called Caposiform Lymphangiomatosis.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you to say it went so lymphangiomatosis, I think, is not not incredibly rare by itself, but the specific form she has is quite rare.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean I think we're on a we're on a Facebook thing with some people now with this, and there's only about 200 people, you know, worldwide.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So and I'm not even sure they're all Capose form okay, you know, ones either.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: So is that is that because it's so deadly that if you don't catch it in time and if you don't have you know this this level of medical intervention?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's hard to say, like they they I mean the one thing they said to us all the time was just like we can't really give you any outlook on things, you know.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh the guy, a cardiologist, said to me, because she was never under one department, you had cardiologists and radiologists and oncologists, and um and he said something like Um, he said, if you had cancer, I could just sit you down and say, Look, this is what the next 10 years in your life is gonna look like, this is the medication we're gonna give you, this is how often you'll have to come back to hospital, this is what the quality of life will look like.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I can't give you any of that.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um we just do things, we assess, and we do more things, and we assess.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, you read you uh uh you do you read things that say like you know, usually fatal, something like a 40% survival rate, progressive, um which is obviously well it's not what you want to read.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: As a parent or as anyone, really, um to put it my.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, it's me again.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very sorry to interrupt.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's an incredible story, isn't it?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we will get straight back to it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the point in uh the conversation where Glenn and Paul took a look at some photos, and that's obviously quite hard to convey over the podcast format.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you'd like to check those out, you can watch the video of this on our YouTube channel youtube.com forward slash speak life media.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I just wanted to briefly draw your attention to was um the operations director role at speaklife.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we are currently looking for an operations director.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are a mature Christian with giftings in things like strategy and you're passionate about speaking life into the world, into the church, then uh we would love to hear from you.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go to speaklife.org.uk forward slash jobs to find out more and to apply.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get back to the conversation.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting some comments.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um Chris has said it's good to see you, mate.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: We've missed hearing that Feasy Voice podcast.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, love from us here in Australia and continued prayers for your whole family.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: So Australia as well as well.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: They count.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying they count as much as Kenyan prayers, but they count.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're up there.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: The prayers have got to go further because they start down the bottom and they've got to go all the way up later.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Seabrook.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I love that so many people were praying and that you have a diagnosis.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: What was it about God, about his character, that brought you comfort while Libby was in hospital?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Great question, Sarah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, again, so when people have asked, uh were asking us, you know, how we were doing and things, um, I mean, we really experience God's just the peace of God.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I said to people loads of times when I've talked about this that you know, I've been to so many Christian events where someone gives a testimony and they say how you know something awful happened to them, um, and then they say, But I really knew God's peace.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I would sit through those things and go, like, yeah, but oh, that wouldn't be me if I was in that situation, you know, I'd be in bits and I'd be beside myself.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, we really did just know God's peace.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know, it wasn't I don't think it was a specific thing, you know, like this part of God's character, you know, or that part of God's character.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was just we felt God's presence with us and and were just at peace.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it and there was no way to, I mean, there's no logical reason for us to feel peaceful about what was going on, yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and we were having conversations with parents in the hospital who were just you know, mind you know, their minds were boggling about how we were so together.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you and and so it really is you know, it's peace that's part of understanding, yeah, you know.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was definitely from outside of us, and and I was at pains to try and stress that at times on social media because often people were saying, like, oh you guys are doing so well, you guys are amazing and you're so strong.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, it's really not us, is it?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really not us, you know, it's coming from it's coming from outside of us.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: But what what does peace feel like when you're in the room of doom?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because it doesn't it doesn't feel nice, you know.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, it doesn't it doesn't feel like tranquility or like like no it doesn't feel pleasant.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is what is peace when actually from another point of view it's like hellish?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, so you're not you're certainly not kind of sitting there just being like la la la, everything's fine, you know.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um or although or in another sense although in another sense there I think for me there was always this sense of like it will be fine because there was a sense of she might die, but that's not the end.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it's not the end, and so particularly at the beginning I very much had in mind that kind of um you know David, you know, and he he he grieves while his child is alive and then stops grieving when his child dies, and when he's asked, he says, Well, yeah, no, I'll see him again.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there was very much that sense in my mind of like, well, if she dies, it's not the end.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the it's not the end of everything for us, you know, and it would be devastating and it will be incredibly painful and hard.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I don't know how we would keep going and get up and do life and you know, particularly because you know, for us, she was she was the kind of she's a little bit younger than our other two, she was a little bit later than we'd you know, we'd had an ectopic pregnancy before her back in 2018, and so we'd you know, we kind of intended to have three kids, and she'd come along, like say, a little bit later, and so so there was always this sense that she was slightly the miracle child, um and there was a sense of like, well, if she goes, I mean we're not if she dies, we're not having more children.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, not that you would replace your dead child, but kind of like we will be back to four and not five anymore.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there isn't like you say, you know, you there was just this sense of well it's okay because it's in God's hands, you know, like it in the midst of I think it's that thing, isn't it, when people in our comfortable kind of first world kind of setting, when we think about suffering and hard things, we think you know, in the midst of all those things we would question the goodness of God, but people living in incredibly difficult circumstances all around the world are much more assured of the goodness of God.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I suppose I just never doubted the goodness of God in it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like even if this is even if she died, there's a sense of, well, God is good.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I mean it wasn't an uh an intellect intellectually thought thought out kind of thing, I don't know.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just the peace, the passeth all understanding.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Ruth Clements says, So good to hear more of your family's story during the hardest times.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel afraid at all?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if you had difficult thoughts, how did you get through?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back, Paul.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Was there fear?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: That must have been fear, mustn't there?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: There was definitely fear, you know, fear on the day when her heart stopped, and fear when um fear on the day they take her off the ECMO and said they didn't think she was gonna make it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um those were the most, yeah, the scariest moments where you feel like she might die, you know.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think in terms of difficult thoughts.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So so that was those those were but those moments passed quite quickly.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like I said, you know, I was after that meeting on the the Tuesday when they they taken her off, but she wasn't doing well and they said she might die.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was the lowest point.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had the prayer meeting, and it was like, huh, okay, over to you, God.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, right, you know, it really did feel a bit like that, almost just kind of like off, you know, do your thing now.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know, wow, wow, wow.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like I say, not without but without that kind of just I'm sure it'll all be fine kind of mentality, but it's just like it's in God's hands, God's got it, whatever happens.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: So do you off you go, you know.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um because that that is that Philippians four thing as well, isn't it?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, present your request with thanksgiving, present your requests to God, and the peace of God that passes all understanding.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it very much is that sense of cast your cares on the Lord, hand it over to Him.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is something we just very rarely do.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think as well, because so often in in life, like we don't really need to.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if you're if you just kind of if if the most we we're going through is like, oh, work's a bit rubbish at the moment, yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can you would say, Well, give it to the Lord.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a sense in which like you could probably you'd probably probably just get through it even if you weren't giving it to the Lord.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think where we where we were was just like we've got nothing, like there's nothing I can do.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can I can literally do nothing in the situation, like I can only give this to you, Lord.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, and you just trust the Lord is gonna do things, but uh, in terms of like the hard times after that, I think that the things that were hardest after that, because things sort of levelled out and she was getting better and fluid were drying up, and she didn't just appear to be getting this didn't appear to be affecting her anymore.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um the hardest thing was just the ongoing length of time we were there.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was that kind of most of the time you're okay, but then you just have these moments where you think I remember a couple of times just thinking doing a couple of things with her and just thinking this isn't this isn't unnatural, you know, it's not right that she's like this and and I'm here and the kids are somewhere else, and we're all separated as a family, and you know, and like really and just really weird things, like two two really stupid things.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I remember like one morning, you know, some people very kind people had lent us a flat and I was staying there, and just like I'd put on some worship music when I was in the shower, and it was that Matt Redman song, you know.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um give and take away and all that.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, um, even though I walked through the valley of the shadow of death, you know, oh no, you never let go.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And there's that line where it says, There will be an end to these troubles, but until that day comes, you know, still I will praise you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember hearing the line though, there'll be an end to these troubles, and I just fell apart because I was just like, When will this end?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, Lord, when will this end?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't, how long can I keep doing this?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like being one of us at home with the kids, one of us at the hospital, and then we swap over and we're never together, and Becca and I aren't together and stuff.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then the other thing, which is just really stupid that completely caught me off guard was when I was at home with the girls, um, one morning, it was in the school holidays, I said, Oh, we'll just watch a film, and we decided to watch Hook.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, like the Peter Pan film.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and right at the beginning of the film, there's a scene where they're in London and they go to a dinner for Wendy, who's an old lady played by Maggie Smith by now, and um, and she's basically spent her life helping orphan children from Great Ormond Street Hospital.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, it I clicked in my head then that like Great Walmart Street Hospital owned the copyright to Peter Pan because Jay and Barry live around the corner, all the money from Peter Pan performances goes to Great Ormond Street, so there's Peter Pan statues there.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's everywhere.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I didn't really make the link at the time.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it just completely blindsided me.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like we'd sat down to watch this film, and suddenly Great Walmart Street Hospital, whatever.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I was just like, I'm just going to the toilet.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I went to have a moment.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what's daddy doing in the toilet?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: You've been in there quite a long time, and just like, I'm fine.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um, wow, but it's yeah, and and just weird.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you have weird moments like that where you suddenly like you're fine all the time, and then suddenly you just like suddenly you're like, oh, it's not okay.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Peter Pan encouragements, they never get old.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: I thought now is the right time for a pun.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Amanda Kay.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh thanks so much for sharing this, Paul.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: We've just arrived in Boston for our daughter's third heart surgery this Wednesday.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: We always keep Libby in our prayers.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's be praying for your daughter, Amanda Kay.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody, pray for Amanda's daughter for that surgery coming up.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And Wendy Lomont, thanks for sharing your story, Paul.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: We sent up many prayers for Liberty here in Virginia.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you all so much for your prayers.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you were saying that you're saying that people in the hospital kind of noticed that you were handling things with a kind of a piece.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like what what impact do you think so God carries you through this?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: What impact do you think that's had as a witness to your church?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: And what what impact has it had sort of beyond the church?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So in terms of in the church, uh, so I mean, I think what we saw was just like this is what the boy this is how the body of Christ should work.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone rallied round us, you know, people were praying, people were bringing us meals, the even though the kids were at home, they were being dropped off at um people were saying, you know, oh, they can come and have a sleepover, you know, like with some of their friends at from the church and things.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it really I was brought to mind of that, you know, it is that stuff in 1 Corinthians about the body, and we will rejoice with those you rejoice and mourn with those who mourn and stuff, and every you know, we every part um you know every part has its own function and stuff.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there was a real sense in which I was just like, well, we're seeing seeing what the church should look like in action, really.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Steve, our vicar, said, you know, he said, You're teaching us to pray.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and he was he said, you know, thanks for sharing what was going on kind of in detail because it meant we could pray.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember him saying, like, he came up that first Friday and he said, Yeah, we had a pr he said we had a prayer meeting this morning, you know, it was, I think it was all on Zoom.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, and oh, so many people were there.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: He said, No one ever comes.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: He said, It's like it's like revival's broken out.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I remember one of my one of my friends said, you know, this whole thing is like an evangelistic event because not only was the church praying, you know, you you you'd put a post up and you'd get hundreds of comments on it, and people were praying, and but there were lots of non-Christian friends, you know, from school or whatever, who were obviously looking in and seeing all this, and and there was a real awareness of just like this is on display for them to see, like they're seeing what we're going through.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose that they're seeing our faith.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: There was never a sense of like, well, we've got to we've got to make it look like we're you know holier than holy, you know, like really coping in the if we weren't, you know.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like that, but there was an awareness that, like, wow, people are looking in on this, and you know, uh, Becca had said she had people say, like, you know, your church is amazing because they're just boggled by the idea that there was that kind of community because you you take for granted, I think, when you're in the church, that kind of community because it's just normal to you, yeah, but it's not for other people.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, it was like I said, it was this kind of weird evangelistic event, and I you know, I was reminded of those verses.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, is it in 2 Corinthians where Paul talks about you know we're we're perplexed and all these things you know put on display, yeah, struck down but not destroyed, yeah.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: All that stuff, and I and I posted that verse one day.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: I said, because this is kind of how I feel.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we don't quite know, we're going through this and this, but we're not broken down and we don't know why, but we're kind of put on display for Jesus as you look in at this, you know.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean it's it's very not me, you know.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very not that person who like you know, I'm not one of those people who's sharing, like, here's a nice photo with a Bible verse over the top on my social media, you know, like you know, yeah.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there was such a sense of like no God is working in this, yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and there were that there was that sense of God is working in us, God is working in our church, He's He's revealing Himself to people in our town and you know, our friends, um And having conversations with people in hospital, other parents, and which just feels weird when you're going through what you're going through, to be sitting there kind of thinking, why am I doing evangelism like in the middle of all this?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's it's not in my diary.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've got other things like on my mind at the moment, but it just kind of happened naturally, you know.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Huh.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the more I think about it, I I mean I look back over you know how many years we've been Christians, I think I can't I can't think of a another event that's gone on in my Christian life which has been more of an evangelistic witness, you know, whether you know you'd have to do a million men's breakfasts to get to this point, you know.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: So cancel your men's breakfast instead, have a massive crisis, have a yeah, a medical catastrophe.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it it brings to mind very strongly like one Peter for me, like every aspect of your story, because like you you talk about in in like one peter one, um you know, the whole the whole thing is written to God's elect who are exiled, scattered throughout, you know, the the provinces of of Turkey, essentially.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he talks to these people who are just going through the mill, suffering.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in chapter one, um he talks about um, you know, through Christ's mercy, he has given you new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil, or fade.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: This inheritance is kept in heaven for you who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: These come so that the genuine, the proven genuineness of your faith, of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire, may result in praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Though you have not seen him, you love him, and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's I mean, was was there a sense that A, this was a furnace, and B, Jesus was there?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, undoubtedly undoubtedly it was like a furnace.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a sense of being refined.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's yeah, yeah, there's an awareness of being refined through fire.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that you don't you know you don't grow there there are there are there are uh things I don't think you can you can know about Jesus.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: And not I'm not saying you have to go through something like this, but until you go through the sort of the desert, the furnace, whatever, yeah.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's things you can only learn there.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, I think about you know, Jesus You know, Jesus went into the desert.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's the spirit drove him into the desert.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he spends the forty days and forty nights there.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then it says, you know, when he leaves the desert, filled with the power of the spirit, you know.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a sense in which I think sometimes to go deeper you have to go through this trough first and up, you know, which is the shape of the Christian life generally, anyway, isn't it?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's the the big picture of the Christian life is that we go down into death before we come back out the side.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so there was and there was a sense of Jesus being with us, and you know, Philippians, you know, rejoice, you know, being able to rejoice um and give thanks at all times.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a weird thing as well, to be able to sit there and be like, thanks for this, you know.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, you know, because again, you're like, this is the weirdest thing to be feeling and saying, but like it's like I feel closer to you, Lord, through this time than I've felt to you in a long time.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um like, I mean, I don't I I don't really want this situation, but like I can just see where you're working and I can I know you I just know your presence is here with us.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you just don't get that in the same way when everything's fine and dandy and you could just go about your merry day without really needing to worry about.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Give God a second thought if you don't bother, you know.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've shared here before, I think, you know, Philippians 3 10 was like this this verse that I prayed when I was 21, I think.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: 21, 22.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was like Philippians 3.10 is I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, yeah.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Becoming like him in his death, and so somehow to attain to the resurrection of the dead.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: I remember reading that and praying, God, if I can know you better through suffering, bring it on.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Careful, what do you wish for?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's a typical 21-year-old prayer, isn't it?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Bring it on, I can take it.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like slammed by like four things in the next week that were extraordinary things to have happened, just extraordinary things that just sort of floored me.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And by the end of that week, I was laughing myself to sleep.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: So closely did I know Jesus and his presence and you know, fellowship in his sufferings was just so sweet, you know, in the in the furnace.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think of 1 Peter 2.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: So 1 Peter 1 is the furnace, and and Jesus meets you, and then 1 Peter 2 um talks about the church as this royal priesthood, the chosen people, the royal priesthood, the holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's this this idea that there are these foreigners and exiles, these bedraggled sufferers who are called God's royal priesthood.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: And somehow, somehow, this community of sufferers together in Jesus is what brings God to the nations, you know, and brings the nations to God in that sort of evangelistic sense.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I can I can well see how Steve Yovicker is kind of saying, you know, this is this has helped us pray, this has united us, you know, in a way that I think is a is a testimony to people online, people in Crowborough, you know.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then chapter three, 1 Peter 3, you know, it's the verse on personal evangelism, isn't it?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like verse 15.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: In your heart set apart Christ as Lord.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who gives you the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: And of course it's the great verse that's birthed apologetics, yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because always be prepared to give an apologia in in the in the um Greek, an answering word.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: But people always forget what the context of it is.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the context is these refugees who are at the bottom of the pile suffering, clinging to Christ.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the question comes, how do you still have hope given your circumstances?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not, you know, can you give me five reasons to believe the resurrection?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's not.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can you can you run me through the ontological argument for God's existence again?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's genuinely how are you still standing after the year that you're you've had, you know.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's apologetics, you know.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: This this furnace that you guys have been through really testifies to the way in which our witness is our martyr.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the Greek word for witness is martyr, you know, because in the early church the the way that people witnessed was they witnessed to death.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um but the onlooking Roman world, who didn't know anything beyond this life to Trust in, suddenly saw the flaming hope of Christians who were like, there's something more important than getting thrown to the lions.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can get thrown to the lines, that's okay.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Totally revolutionized, you know, the pagan mindset.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And here we all are today.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it just seems like you guys as well, going through this, which is just so different because so often we want to do evangelism that's just kind of I want to interview someone who's like a celebrity and a Christian, and you know, they're successful and they go to church.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to be successful, maybe you go to church, like whereas all the most all the most fruitful evangelism I've ever done has always been out of weakness, Jesus sometimes carries somehow carries you, you know, and and it's it's been that kind of thing with you guys, I think.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I I and in some sense I haven't had time to probably process all of the the bits and bobs that have gone on and think about it too deeply, but there was a kind of sense as this was going on, and you're aware that the whole thing in itself is a is a kind of witness out there when I'm sitting there thinking, like, there was a bit of kind of like when we think about evangelism, we're always just thinking about like this event, that event, kind of you know, we'll put on this and we'll do that, and which you know obviously has its value, but I just wonder whether we've slightly lost the one part of evangelism at least is just the church being the church, yeah, you know, and because what happened you know, as I said, in a way, I was kind of looking at what's going on and the way people were responding.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, well, people are just doing what the church should be doing, they're just being the church, right?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: In that we are loving one another and supporting each other and bearing each other's burdens and stuff, and actually the way the church does it was uh does it is so I mean, people people who aren't Christian will obviously do those things, but I think not to the level that what hat we experienced.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I just don't think people have that level of support and community.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh people were supporting us, and you know, do people who we know in church, but we maybe we don't know that well.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's not uh people will have support from the people around them, very close to them, but in the church you have people who who are just like, well, we're all part of the same church family, aren't we?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter whether I know you well or not, like here's here's a bit of cash to keep you going, or you know, we'll here's a meal, you know.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is countercultural when the church is the church, yeah, you know, yeah, and I think we sometimes forget that in our and we think evangelism has to be like here's five reasons to believe the resurrection, and yeah, um whereas actually kind of well, how do people know you by your love for one another?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, right.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um surely not we can't just love one another, you know, we've got to do something else.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: What about the men's breakfast?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so we have bacon.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: See, and you know, I I there there are lots of things, I guess, in other situations outside of this kind of thing.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we're we're delving into it's delving into different territory, but just I think the church, in a sense, we've lost out in the West somehow because we have a such a Christianized world view, the whole of society, that we have things like the welfare state, right, which is good.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: And hospitals, and hospitals free at the point of access and all that kind of stuff, which but of course they're incredibly Christian things, yeah, you know.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so and so we're not as churches, we we don't there are churches doing lots of good things, of course, but you know, if it was obvious it's the church who feeds the poor, it's the church who look after the sick.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people would be like, Wow, yeah, you know, yeah, um so and that is the witness just doing those things, and people go, Why on earth are you because I thought about it quite early on with some of the nurses.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, you know, here are these people who are like almost pouring out there, they're there for like a 12-hour shift.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're there one, you know, they're there the whole time, they're they're basically and they're pouring themselves out for the sake of someone else.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I remember saying to Steve, my vicar, I was like, what they're doing is inherently Christian, they're not Christians, yeah, some of these people.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it is the most Christian thing for them to be here like caring for the sick and the building full of good Samaritans.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's literally what it is.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, why would you do this?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it's because everyone has that Christian undergirding.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, but I think we forget that the church can be distinctive in showing that as well.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Totally, totally.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so and so all those like phrases that I'm always sort of teaching people in terms of evangelism training, that's what I love about Jesus, that's what I love about my church.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't have gotten through X without Jesus.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I genuinely think that's that's kind of where it's at, more than the events and more than the more than the silver bullets.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because hopefully our answers to those three questions will always be evolving, you know, and they'll be they'll be different this year to what they were last year, and and it's it's an ongoing witness, yeah, you know, to how Jesus is carrying us.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: So Paul, we're just really thrilled that you're back.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you and Libby and the family are just uh an answer to so many, so many prayers, and yeah, and we continue to pray that uh she shines out, um, as she has done.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: She's been she's been an incredible, you know, shining star for Jesus.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's really little trooper, she is.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just keeps going, incredibly resilient.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: So amazing.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Amanda Kay has said her daughter's name is Gwen.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: So let's all be praying for Gwen.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, let's all be praying for Gwen.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you could pray right now wherever you are, wherever you're listening to this.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know where you are in the world, but that's the incredible thing about prayer, isn't it?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Speak Life Podcast.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to have Paul Feesey back with us.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you have any questions, comments, just like to get in touch, you can uh email us at infospeaklife.org.uk.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much for listening, and I will see you next time.