Latest / Babes, how did you get here / Kai Charles #2

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Kai Charles #2 · Babes, how did you get here

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That's how we got here, just two suitcases each. When I got sick and tired of being sick
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and tired in London, one day me and another cousin just thought, why don't we try it? I was
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doing it part-time. I'd worked in different companies as a marketing executive. The last
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place I left was the Economist newspaper. So it was going well, but just yeah, I just felt
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like they needed to be a yoga teacher. So she also quit yoga and she was actually in a media.
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It feels like no more than ever. People are moving abroad in search of opportunity,
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freedom and reinvention, despite the challenges that this might entail. I am April Jackson,
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traveling the world that's speaking with interesting people who have chosen a life elsewhere.
0:54
We're dropping new episodes every single week. So make sure you subscribe. You don't want to
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miss this babes and leave a comment and tell me what do you want to hear out of my next conversation.
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Your support really helps this community grow. And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking
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should they take that next big leap? Babes, send them the podcast.
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And so I say that to say, perhaps I'm looking through that lens of having grown up,
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where people, for example, in England that say, where are you from as in your heritage because
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they don't want to offend me. I said, no, no, no, you don't need to talk about my heritage, you know.
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I am from Jamaica. You don't need to put in the heritage part to kind of cushion the question
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because they're implying that they're not sending me back to where I come from. So to speak,
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they're genuinely asking just where are you from, right? So I let them know it's okay. We don't
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need to go back down the line. Who asks that question? Black people are always white people
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who have to add in the heritage part. And I understand where it's coming from, right? Because they want
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to be clear that they're not being rude, right? They're genuinely interested. Right. But it's
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of point for me to let them know, no, no, I'm not from here. So we don't need to talk about heritage
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because I am not from here, right? By the same token that when people do like to tell me to go
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back to where I come from, I tell them I'm working on it the same way that their ancestors came to my
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country and took their benefits and came back. I'm trying to do the same because I'm learning from
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them and I think it's a good lesson. But that's a whole another discussion. The point I'm saying is
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when I hear the term black British, we're dropping new episodes every single week. So make sure you
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subscribe. You don't want to miss this babes and leave a comment and tell me, what do you want to
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hear out of my next conversation? Your support really helps this community grow. And if you know
2:45
someone who's quietly been there's a part of me that that questions what does that mean from the
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perspective of when I went to boarding school, I went to boarding school in Bath for a very short
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time when I was 13. And you know, they were making eight noises as I'm asked me if I've ever seen
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a school before. You know, where's my tail painting the swastika like all of the things, right? Because
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I very quickly realized that Bath was not London. So my point is that knowing that I'm not black
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British was my armor, if you will, right? It was my protection from whatever weird nasty words
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you wanted to throw my way because for me this was all temporary. And so I think it's an interesting
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space because when I meet people in England who are very aware of their heritage, whether it's
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through traveling to where their parents or grandparents are from, or whether just their household
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in the UK was still very much a cultural household, be it through food, music, whatever,
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conversation, stories. There's a difference I find as an outsider when I meet the person who has
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a connection to home, wherever home was, versus the person who born and raised in England and is
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in this weird gray space of not knowing the heritage, but also clearly having experiences that
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have told them that this isn't your land. And so my question to you about being black British is
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what does that mean in terms of your identity and your character? That's a great question. And so
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there's so many things that you touched on there because I actually thought you were born in
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Jamaica. Everyone knows. Yeah, I didn't think you were born in the UK, but it makes sense from
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six weeks old, you know, growing up there. So I've always been born and raised in West London.
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So my experience has been very diverse and it has been very British. My mum is Grenada
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Trinidadian and my dad's side is Jamaican, but my dad was also born in the UK and my grandfather
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and grandmother straight from Jamaica. So everything was still very Caribbean in the house.
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You know, I knew friends from other cultures and stuff, you know, Julian friends, African
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friends, etc. And that's just what it was for us. So I think growing up with, you know,
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whether it was a TV shows, the movies that we watched, the music that we listened to, and you know,
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for example, loving British boy bands, for example, I love like damage, ultimate chaos, that's
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when we grown up and stuff. That's what I do with those people. Right, this one saying that's
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my British culture because I think at that time so much of music, if it wasn't the British, let's say,
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Beverly Nye in Eternal and those kind of musicians who were Black and doing R&B or Soul or whatever
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that genre would be, those were like the cream of the crop, but very few and far and between
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artists in our space. Everything else was dominated by American culture. So of course,
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she had the brandy, the liars and all that kind of era. And that's what I grew up on. So that
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distinction, I knew I was an American, but I liked American culture. And, you know, of course,
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the family would be listening to Reggae and what do we call it about then? Not Batchement before
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Batchement. Anyway, we've gone through the phases. And I like Reggae and even a bit of Socar,
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but I've been going away too high pitched. You don't like it that much. I'm not safe space.
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I was going to say I'm wanting to soak with them. I'm probably into Reggae if I'm going to be
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really honest, but I still don't know all the Socar songs. Like I'm not up to date up to date,
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you know what I mean? But if you put on Socar, I'm going to be on that. You're ready.
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You're ready. You're faster than if you put on Reggae. That's that's my idea. You are
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why not the way it's you don't want love us rock pretty much. Okay. But this is the thing.
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My brother and sister are the opposite. Okay. I mean my sister loves Socar as well. But if you put
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on anything Reggae, anything Batchement, anything anything anything Jamaican, my sister knows the
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artist, the name, the district that can tell you the year. I don't know who is who. Right.
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I'm going to be honest. Okay. I kind of know a few. But my point is I kind of also felt like
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that's my parents culture and and music. And I can appreciate that for my grandparents as well,
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the foods and stuff. So if I go on holiday there, my mom for sure she would fit in being born
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in Trinidad. And yes, she's you know raised in the UK from like eight years old. But she could
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fit in my sister. Okay. We know that she's British, but she can kind of fit in me. They look at me
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immediately. They would even think I'm American or British. Correct. So I don't fit in when I go
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Grenada. Right. I don't fit in when I go to Jamaica. And look, I wasn't trying to fake it to
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you make it in any way. But I'm just like, yeah, you know, you know, trying to enjoy your holiday.
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And they immediately can spot you from a mile off English, English, wow, I'm English. So
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so I don't give a wrong. I still felt connected, but I know I'm a tourist, right. And that's okay.
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Because it made sense to me. I don't live here. I'm not trying to pretend and all kind of stuff.
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So in my upbringing, I could attach and appreciate and be proud of the culture with the flags,
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with the food, with the music. But it never felt like home to me. Okay. Right. And so
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I don't pretend to know more than I really do or, you know, I know Jamaicans who are also here in
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Dubai. And even some of them not mentioning any names, but they feel like the Jamaicans from
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Jamaica are Jamaicans. Right. But the Jamaicans from anywhere else that ain't from Jamaica,
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you're not in Jamaican. And I get it. But we are. Do you know what I mean? And for me and the
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way that I do now for black guys to buy and the community stuff, it's just bringing everyone
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together. Like we have not got time, especially when we're all abroad, to be arguing about who is
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whole this and a half that and a quarter of this. Listen, my family's from Jamaica. We're Jamaican.
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Right. That's it. You know, we're Caribbean. And of course, depending on what conversation you get
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into, you realise we are all the same. But others are like, I saw which part you're from and I'm like,
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I don't know. I came one Tico Bay. I don't know the corner and I don't know the man on the corner
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Grenada. I do. Yes. But you know more about Grenada. I visited more as a child. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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So my aunt had a shop. My great aunt. And yeah, we just stayed in different places and say like,
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oh, they built a church on that corner now. Yeah. I don't really know that about Jamaica.
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Sure. I just, I know. I'm laughing because I know the questions. Again, when people meet me who are
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Jamaican, because my accent is so mixed up and because it goes all over the place, the question
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first of all is where do you live? Right. And I know it's not, it's not a genuine curiosity.
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It's, it's an interrogation. Right. To test. And then the next question is, what school did you go to?
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Right. Because again, they're trying to see, did you actually go to school in Jamaica, but also,
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they're trying to place you in terms of in society, which school did you go to?
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Correct. Right. And I just smiled because I know it's coming and
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they was we can play that game. Well, I think we get it here as well. I've really
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the common question in Dubai is, you know, when people are meeting networking first questions,
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you know, hi, where you from, what do you do? You know, standard stuff. And then
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when they say where you from, a lot of people might assume, especially if they don't know too much
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about black people or African people, that I'm African, which is fine. Right. Not because I look
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African, but they're just going on skin tone, right? So, okay, so you're black, so you're African.
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Then they hear the accent. So, okay, maybe she's British in African. Or what is she? Is she American?
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And what I understood now is that there's a lot of people who have never been to the West.
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They're in Dubai, like I am. Yes. But let's say they're from India, Pakistan, they're from,
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from here, they're local, right? There's certain places that people can't travel to because of
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visa restrictions. Right. And there's some places that people just have never been because they
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don't want to go. Well, maybe it's on the bucket list, right? So now I'm the first British
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Caribbean person they're meeting. And they're like, oh, wait, there's British Jamaicans in London.
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And of course, I know there's loads of us. And of course, like, I mean, but when you now come across
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somebody who's from Madagascar or someone who's from Sudan or someone from wherever, our common ground
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is now the Middle East. I haven't been to Madagascar. I haven't been to Hawaii. I haven't been to your
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country. And vice versa, you haven't yet been to London. Some of them have studied there.
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Okay. Or whether they're a nurse or doctor or whatever the case may be or their partner or they
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sent family, they were they sent kids there. A lot of Asian families as well. And I come across
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and like, well, I have family in South for Heathrow. Hayes, the common places. But not everyone's been.
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So I am their first representation and the easiest thing rather than going down the route of
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Grenada Jamaica, which they probably haven't heard of. Sorry, Grenada Trinidad, which they probably
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haven't heard of. I was going to say good. No, as well as say, when you say Jamaica, they're like,
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ah, Jamaica, Jamaica, Jamaica. And then even if they're not really sure what to say next,
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Bob Mali, Bob Mali, or you can sing a song. Don't worry. And then they're like, okay, okay,
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okay. I know this one. Right. So that's easy. Some people you know you say in bulk,
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you're trying to get people to know Rihanna from Barbados or Nicki Minaj from like,
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that's too much information. We just stick with Jamaica,
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just stick with the best bits. Hello, there's other islands out there, you know. Okay,
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there are other islands with other flags. People either love me. I can't help myself. It's not my
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fault. It's fine. It's just not my fault. But yeah, it's easier. But when people ask in the UK,
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where are you from? I think they're asking location. Like I from East London, South London,
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are you from Croydon, are you from Kent? That's the question, I think, because most of us are from
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the UK. So what are you really asking me then? Yes, we can go into origin and heritage and
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background. But what is it matter when we're here, Sally? We're having a cup of tea,
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do you know what I mean? And it's not an offensive question, but it just depends on where people
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are from, I think, is the answer. Sorry, it depends on where you are in that question. It's how
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you answer. I find the question funny in the sense that I do think that sometimes in life,
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it's not what people are saying. It's how they're saying it. It's the tone. It's the intention.
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And I think that sometimes we can feel intention even beyond what is being said. And an example
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that comes to my mind is here, right? In the sense that, and I do think that growing up in a
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country like Jamaica, perhaps my guard isn't as up when it comes to certain interracial things,
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right? And I remember once a lady, I was on a show and a lady wanted to touch my hair. I could
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tell she wanted to touch my hair. And she was very speaking spokey, she was not from London,
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I don't know where she was from, but her accent was very like, airy, I call it, you know, like,
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that, like, it just feels like you're gasping for air every time you're speaking, okay? And I said
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to her, do you want to touch my hair? I can see that you want to touch my hair. She goes, oh no,
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I couldn't. I'm like, it's a safe space. Just go ahead and touch the hair. And for me,
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she was genuinely curious. I was probably the only black person she was ever this close to. And I
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don't think she meant any malice. And I've said this story to other people from England. And they're
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like, no, there was like no circumstance where that was acceptable. You know, why you're not a dog
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why she's petting you? And I'm like, again, I can see perhaps if you have grown up in an environment
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where you felt that you weren't able to express yourself the way you wanted to or you felt like
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you had to conform to a particular situation or that your identity was very much attached to
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here. I see all of those things. But I think that sometimes in England, there's a way of
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closing down conversation for the sake of not causing offence that actually causes more problems
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within the society than if there was more open and honest dialogue once it was coming from a
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pure place. You know what? I agree with you on that note. I'm thinking though about the first part
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of that in that you asked her if she wanted to touch the hair. But I'm just wondering,
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personally, how many times I've wanted to touch someone else's hair? And I just, I find it
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really fascinating when people want to do that because I'm like, why? I've never wanted to touch
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anything. I've never touched anyone's hair. I mean, I've seen friends who are like amazing
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afros or whatever. I don't know why people want it. But doesn't matter. It doesn't. But I think
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sometimes we have learned and, you know, off the back of COVID when we had the tragic scenario
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with George Floyd, globally, there were these conversations happening because we all understood
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without speaking about it that we had been carrying away and having to explain things
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and carry things over and over again. And I think I spoke to someone the first time I realized
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it was happening a guy in the UK and he said, you know, I cried this week and I was like, why?
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And he said, because I feel really heavy and he was trying to describe what he was going through.
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And then I was like, oh my god, that happened to me. Now, I'm a crybaby, so I thought it was
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just me. But then now globally, we're all having this global dialogue with the case of we're having
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to constantly explain what you're talking about, this fragility. And I don't know why we hadn't
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spoken about it before or why there wasn't words for it until the George Floyd scenario. But that
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global shift really opened up a lot of conversations with even white people here or people from other
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nationalities who wanted to understand how we could do better, how we can do the mean. So I think
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you're right. There needs to be those safe spaces for people to ask those questions. But when the
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shoes on the other foot, for me, I'm like, when is that okay? Because I think we're constantly
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explaining and accommodating for everyone else. And not just as black people, I think even as women,
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right? We are overcompensating and overperforming and people pleasing in the workplace to balance
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out the men to, you know, there's all of this juggling going on going on. And like, why? I just
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do feel that as a woman, you have to juggle and explain in the workplace. Sometimes, yes. And
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and what kind of things are we talking about? Well, here, it's not a thing because I've not done
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corporate. Sure. But back to the UK. And I just think for being a woman, you don't want to
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do. I guess you don't want to overstep if you're whatever position you're in and you're trying to
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get promoted, for example, or you're new in the role, or you're just getting by, I think sometimes
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there is this tone that women have a place and they should stay in that place. But if it's a guy,
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the guy can kind of get away with more and say, say more and get that promotion. And I do think
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as women, we have to unlearn a lot of that because sometimes we're using words and things like
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imposter syndrome and whatever. Men don't use those words, right? So when we're also using those
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words and kind of scared to go for those things and like, it's like, we're holding things together
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that we don't need to hold. And I think it's time we just drop it and let it go and just, yeah.
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It's funny. No, because again, not having the experience to compare what like in that corporate
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world is, I was surprised to see how the expectations of women were in England, because I think
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when, at least for me, when we hear London, we think extremely forward thinking, very progressive,
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all of those things. And then sometimes when you get on the ground, you're like, is this really
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progressive? Who tells you it's progressive? I don't know. I feel like that's the vibe. You know,
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I feel like when you're living I don't live. You think that these first world, and I put it in
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airports because the experience comes. That's the light they sold to all the win-rush generation.
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My granddad literally thought he was stepping off the boat to like, we got the ball paved with gold.
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He was met with no blacks, no dogs, no Irish. Now we don't need to get on the whole race conversation,
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but there's a lot of things that unfortunately haven't changed. Some of it has gotten progressive,
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yes, but there's still a lot of undertones that have not changed. And to be honest, I don't think it's
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just the UK, I think globally, black people, African people, Caribbean people, are still deemed in
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a certain way if you're not of a certain hue. And I think when it also comes to women,
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at the end of the day, it's a man's world, you know. So I think the UK, unfortunately,
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like with a lot of things, they colonised most of the world, right? Most of the countries who
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have independence have independence from Great Britain. So we are afforded, I say we as the
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British passport holders, we're afforded the great luxury of having the passport and the
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privileges that fords us, but that literally came off the back of colonisation. And so a lot of
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people, even now, will still say, well, why did you leave the UK and why did you come to Dubai?
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But actually, I feel a lot freer in Dubai. I feel more British in Dubai. I feel very proud to be
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who I am here as a woman, as a black woman, as a, you name it. I can be free here. You can't
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just rule past that because one, you're already in my mind. That was my next question. And two,
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I think it needs to be impacted a little more because there is this perception that how could you
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choose the Middle East? How could you choose Dubai? I guess my question is what does that mean for
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you personally in terms of being more free? So when I first came, I didn't know because I came to
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do music and fell into events and then black girl in Dubai kind of took on a world of its own. So
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for context, it's a platform that connects people to the black and African community, culture,
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and over a hundred businesses here in the UAE. And I mean, I'm proud to be who I am, but when I got
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here and I realised I can't find planting, I can't find jerk chicken, I need my hair products,
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I had stuff that I came with and I'd gone and packed up my suitcase again, but now I'm running
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that product and I can't just wait till I keep going back or someone's coming to that. I mean,
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so I had one or two bad hair experiences and even at that point, I thought, you know what,
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I can't keep giving my money and service to people who are not going to take care of me and my hair.
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So I decided to aggregate all the business owners that I knew so that we could put money back
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into the black and African community and the people who actually know how to do our hair,
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that list start there because that was the first frustration. But so many entrepreneurs that I
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met had the same struggles, you know, they weren't visible, the buyers are very fast and fragmented
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city, it's getting better now, but at the time, people just weren't visible, you know, whether you
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had the market in budget or not or the city and where you were placed in the business, locations,
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everything. And people just weren't feeling it, especially people that look like us. So black
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going to buy originally was supposed to help those businesses get more visibility and ultimately
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help other expats find the services they're looking for. So I thought that was it, but it kind
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of took on a world of its own, especially after COVID because you can't protest here legally,
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it's illegal to do so. So people wanted another way to use their money, use their voices and
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actually help and support those businesses. So it grew and people want to connect, people,
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you know, of course, get lonely and they're away from home. And for me, as I mentioned earlier,
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it's so safe here. So whether it was about just building that community and helping those
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businesses, it's a safe space. And I think in the UK and many places around the world, you can't
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go certain places on your own daytime or nighttime, you, you know, feel like you're going to be
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harassed, you know, many other horrific things could potentially happen. And even if it doesn't
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happen, you're still looking over your shoulder all the time. And that's just never a worry I've
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had here ever. No matter what community I've lived in, no matter what gig I came back from at
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2, 3, 4 AM, no matter where I was driving to, what taxi driver picks me up, it's just not ever
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something that really crossed my mind. And look, I'm not saying that crime never happens in the UAE,
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but the crime rate here is way lower. And you're able to just have that piece of mind by leaving a
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door open, your car, whatever it is, I'm not telling people to do it. I'm saying that if you do
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it, it's not a stress. And yeah, okay, don't do it again. And maybe you drop something called
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you might not get it back, but I've actually lost things multiple times here and found it. Speaking
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of losing things. So I was here for New Year's. I'm staying at the hotel. I have my local pocket
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camera on that separate from my phone. And I leave, like leave the hotel, check out, same day I realized
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because I'm then on a boat trip. I'm like, yo, can't get the picture, can't get the video.
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Well gone. And then I call them straight away to be like, I've left today and do you have it?
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They said, no, unfortunately, we don't have it. And so then I'm like, oh, maybe I didn't leave it
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in the room, but the last time I used it was definitely in the room. And my friend who lives here,
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she was like, I think you should give it a few more hours at night, you know, when they've
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changed over shifts because maybe they've cleaned the rooms and then gone back, someone will return
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it. And she was super like consistent. Someone will return it. Me and my mom, nobody's returning that
24:08
man. And if she didn't tell me to call, I promise you, if she did not tell me to call, I would never
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have called, right? It would have been done for me last gone. Thank God it's insured. I called back
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at like 11.30 at night. And they said, yeah, it's here. Please come and get it. And I was like,
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and she goes, it's Dubai babes. Seriously, yeah. Seriously, that has happened more times than not.
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There has been a few things that I have genuinely lost. At one time, I think somebody stole the rings
24:34
from me. It was somebody I was dating. And I think he took them. But my point is, I mean,
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that's a separate issue. But more so on a general thing, my dad's lost a phone here, gotten it back.
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I know many people who have lost things here, gotten it back sunglasses, laptops, whatever. And
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people do hand it in, you know, I think they realized that the risk of being arrested or just
24:55
whatever the fine may be for taking some of these things. It's not worth it, especially when your
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job or wherever it is, maybe tied to your visa or like that. It's not worth it. People give
25:04
things back and they can be a lot more honest here. And yeah, I just, I just think here I've been
25:11
able to personally create my own lane, but I've actually seen a lot of other people doing that.
25:17
You know, whatever they were doing when they were in the UK was one thing, but then coming here
25:21
and carving out their space has been something that they've been able to do successfully.
25:26
Has there ever been a time where you have felt that you were treated a particular way, whether it
25:32
was for blackness or womanness or any Britishness, any inness? No. So again, I think because I'm
25:41
British, that goes in my favour all the time. Okay. Yeah. Brits have a good reputation.
25:48
Sometimes. Most of the time. I'm not a heavy drinker, so again, depending on what
25:55
end of the spectrum your acts, you know, Brits are known for certain things here. I won't go into that,
26:00
but yeah, I think people, even if they had a certain mindset about British people or black people,
26:08
they've met me or they met people like me and they're like, wow, you're not like the other
26:11
Brits or wow, you're not like, you know, fill in the blank. But being a woman here, I think
26:15
is fantastic, especially, you know, we're in an Islamic country and culture is protected here,
26:21
and you know, some people will say, okay, you don't see much of this, you don't see much of that,
26:24
because they're looking on Instagram or they're looking at the highlight rules of, you know,
26:28
whatever you can Google or chat GBT tells you now. But when you're actually here,
26:33
there is a lot of culture and I find people do preserve and protect that. If you are Western
26:38
and you dress Western, that's fine. People are not frowning upon you as long as you're still
26:42
respectful, right, whether you're going to dress modestly or not. But then there are people who
26:47
are practicing Muslims, or even if you choose to wear an abay or you're going to, let's say, a
26:52
court or any police building or anything like that, you dress appropriately and I feel like as a
26:57
woman, there is that softness, that protection in that sense, that when I'm wearing an abaya,
27:03
for example, or if I chose to have my head wrapped, I get respected in a different way. In fact,
27:09
my friend, my friend and cousin who wears locks, they also tell me when they wrap up their
27:13
locks, they get a different level of respect, not just from locals, but I think from everyone,
27:18
it's just you're deemed as, I don't know, impress if you've got your head wrapped instead of when
27:24
it's just down in a barn or something like that. So in the UK, I probably wouldn't have known or
27:30
discovered that because I rarely, I don't even think I own an abaya in the UK and I'm wearing,
27:34
you know, blazers and regular clothes and stuff like that. Whereas here, I accumulated a bias
27:39
over the years and depending if I have to go to like a government building or something like that,
27:44
I always make sure, okay, even if I'm not wearing an abaya, I'm going to wear long sleeves,
27:48
you know, not short dresses or anything like that or anything with my arms out. And so,
27:52
yeah, I just think there is that softness that's lended to women here. So what is dating like in Dubai?
27:59
Or logic is I do dating in Dubai. That should be a series dating in Dubai.
28:06
You know what? It's actually for me now, not that bad and I'm open to learning the new ways
28:13
because I think society in general, not just the UAE, is so fast paced and there's like a
28:21
microwavable instant result that a lot of people want, whether that's because of the apps,
28:26
whether that's because of social media. I think people are spending a lot more time at home and
28:31
alone and Dubai is quite fast paced anyway. So if you don't have your own network to do business or
28:38
to have, you know, your friends and your other mums and stuff like that, it can get quite lonely
28:43
quite quickly. But just in the sense of dating, I don't think men are approaching women the way
28:49
they used to like back in the day. Right. So that being said, we're all on our phones more,
28:56
men aren't approaching the way that they used to. I've recently heard some opinions of men talking
29:02
about not wanting to have the me to effect on them. So a friend was actually here visiting from
29:07
London and said, you know, when I'm in the gym, he's married. But he's like, when I'm in the gym,
29:10
if I see a girl filming, I won't even walk past her camera. A, you don't want to spoil her shot,
29:16
but B, you don't even want to be seen to look like you're looking at her on the camera, not because
29:21
he's trying to look at her doing things. But even he's doing good reps or, you know, wow,
29:25
she's really going to be hard to construe. You don't even want to look in that direction because
29:29
then they're going to be like, oh, look at that perv or whatever the context may be, even in the
29:33
sense where she might be or man or woman might be doing something wrong. And old school ways,
29:39
you might go over and correct them and say, you know what, you might want to, you know, do it like
29:42
this or you might want to add that or take a few of the weights off. Now, he's like, you don't even
29:47
want to go up to nobody to correct nothing because again, if they're filming or not, you don't know
29:51
what's going to be caught on camera by someone else. They might think you're hitting on them.
29:55
They, but he's just like, I just go to the gym. I do my workout. And it's a shame because
30:02
someone like me, I would not take it like that. I'll be happy to. Oh, thank you, you know, whatever,
30:06
maybe strike up a little conversation. You've got a little gym buddy. You see them next week.
30:11
He's like, I'm not taking that risk. And of course, he's not on the market to look for somebody,
30:16
but he's like, I understand why a lot of men our age don't do that, right? Of course,
30:21
if you are looking and you are trying to do that, then you would do it. It's funny. I was talking
30:24
about this again a couple nights ago with a guy friend and I was saying, I understand the
30:30
trepidation that you have described, but I'm honest with you. If I go on a date with a man,
30:35
I'm going to reach the door. And he says, could I kiss you? No, Lord, me don't. Me don't. I was,
30:42
what? Like, whatever spark was there, you just literally blew the whole spark, the spark dead
30:48
and gone. Because, and yes, I'm probably all fashioned. And yes, you do you, right? If you want
30:54
question and answer Q and A at the door, that's your thing. But that is not my thing. And I was also
31:00
it to my dad, you know, times have changed so much. And I do understand why they needed to shift,
31:06
right? But I do think that they've gone so left that you've kind of taken all of the romance
31:12
out of it. And maybe, you know, I am too old, but the idea that before every move, you're going to
31:17
get permission. I'm sorry. Well, sometimes they pull back. They don't chase like they used to.
31:24
Now people are saying, well, why should they chase? Maybe the woman should make the initiation.
31:28
Okay. As you say this, I have a question. And I'm going left, but just run with me. How do you
31:33
think? What are your feelings about women proposing to men? Don't like it. Yo, every time I see
31:40
a video, I just want to draw up, just say, get up, get up out of the floor. Because I'm just
31:45
and yes, it's fine. Call me old fashioned and say that I'm a part of the problem. It's fine.
31:50
But every time I see, I'm just like, what are you doing on your knee, my girl? See, my thing is not
31:56
even about being old fashioned. I think women are nurturers and always will be whether it's
32:01
nurturing as, you know, mother and children and so forth, so forth. Also, the reason why I called
32:07
Black Girl and Dubai a Black Girl and Dubai because I knew that with that name, people would always
32:12
ask why and the girl part of it sounds like maybe it's only for women or whatever. But if you think
32:18
about mother nature, or you think about mother Africa, it's for everybody. And it's the source
32:23
and the source. It's where you go back to for regeneration, where you come back to for
32:28
community. If it was called anything else, people would forget the name. They wouldn't ask questions
32:33
and it wouldn't be about that source and community. And I really wanted people to remember that.
32:39
So I feel like when we're talking about women, even if you're not very maternal or whatever the case
32:43
may be, right? Because I know there's tomboys and whatever else. But my point is by nature and
32:48
genetically, if you even look at animals and the animal kingdom, the females behave one way
32:53
and the males behave another way. So men think differently. They are more protective provider
33:00
kind of energy. Again, this is not me saying that that's their role only. I know that they can
33:04
have more of a feminine side and so forth. But again, if you look at nature and the jungle and
33:09
plants and all of that in life and in the world, you know, there's exonwide chromosomes for a reason.
33:15
So when I feel women are doing more of the chasing and initiating than the nurturing,
33:24
we're going to multiply the thing anyway. So I feel like when the guy is actually coming forth and
33:31
choosing you, he is actually being clear of his intention and you will then go on and nurture
33:37
and multiply whatever you were going to do anyway. And in fact, I remember when I was younger,
33:42
I have a late aunt who told me that you should always go for the guy that likes you more. And I'm
33:48
like, no, auntie, you need to go for this. You need to follow your heart. As I've gone older,
33:53
I've actually understood why she said that because the woman is always going to do what the woman
33:59
does. You're going to nurture, you're going to multiply, you're going to do that thing. You're going
34:04
to make the man level up, right? And I don't mean that the man is not going in places because he could
34:09
be a very ambitious nurturing top CEO, the king, the prince, whatever. But the woman is still going
34:15
to do what women do. So you want to be with the guy who is choosing you. Yes, you also want to be
34:23
attracted to him and all those things as well. But when you go doing the chasing and the initiating,
34:27
I kind of feel like it puts that off balance. Of course, this is just a general because I know
34:32
there's going to be exceptions to the rule on both sides. Isn't it terrible that we know
34:35
live in a world where everything you say you have to caveat? I know. I know. But I feel like,
34:40
you know, the comment's going to be like, well, my cousin, you have a million bullet points.
34:46
You're one point. And then you have a million. You're gone into about I X, right? Except when
34:53
minus if the C footnote F on page two to check. Well, we've got to be so inclusive now of
35:01
everyone and everything and politically correct, which yes, can be exhausting. But you know,
35:07
I think we're learning so much about ourselves. And I've been on myself Discovery journey for many
35:11
years. I don't think everyone is. And I also don't think men always have the safe space to speak,
35:19
to express themselves, to know how to do it. Healthily, I think a lot of guys that I know as
35:24
friends or as partners, no like two or three emotions, you know, happy, sad, angry. Sometimes
35:30
is not even sad. It's just happy and angry, right? There's not really much. That's not because
35:34
they're not intelligent guys. They're very intelligent. But I don't think they had safe spaces to express
35:39
themselves in a multitude of emotions. Whereas I think with women, we can, you know, have such a
35:45
myriad of emotions, you know, happy, sad, the joy, the jealousy, the envy that I mean. And I just
35:53
think men hold a lot in. They carry a lot, right? And that's not to say that their battle is
35:59
bigger or less than ours. I just think that women have a way of talking out and getting together
36:05
and, you know, doing the girls nights and the therapy or whatever it may be. And we've been talking
36:11
more about mental health recently. I don't think men have caught up to the same safe space
36:16
where they're journaling or maybe they don't journal. Maybe they don't do the same things that
36:19
women do. But the point is they still need their men's spaces, whether it's therapy, coaching,
36:24
church, prayers, whatever that thing may be. I think they need to work on that individually.
36:30
And then in their jobs, in their businesses, in their marriage, in their fatherhood.
36:37
And it's just not the same. I think the women were raised in one way and women raising women
36:43
and nurturing. I don't think women can raise men. There's an element of it, yes, but men need
36:50
to raise men. And if men are not raising men, then we have that imbalance. Why do you think women
36:58
can't raise men? There's just things that we're never going to be able to feel what understand.
37:05
What is my time, just in general?
37:16
Cool. Thank you. I'm going to answer the question again. Why do you say that women can't raise men?
37:24
Without being too vulgar. Lord God, no, no, give me 50 million. We understand this as a
37:29
fierce, tartar things. We don't know what it's like to be standing up. And I know that men can
37:35
be sitting down if they want to, but there's just a different way of doing that, right? We're never
37:40
going to be, no one's going to be inside anyone else's head. That's the first thing. So we
37:44
are the only one experiencing what we experience. And as women, we know what it's like to
37:51
you know, have a cycle no matter what age that happens at. We know what it's like as your
37:57
body is developing through puberty, through menopause, through whatever cycles, the hot flashes.
38:03
We can talk ourselves through those things. I don't think women can do that with men. And vice
38:08
versa, men can try and understand. And they also have a human body, but their human body is
38:14
operating differently. They're going to have different hormones and emotions and different things
38:19
that come at different times. They think a different way. And so I just, especially society
38:25
expecting different things from men. I don't think I heard someone say the other day that
38:30
men are told what not to do, but they're not told what to do. So don't cry like this. That's
38:37
what girls do. Don't wear this. That's what girls wear. Don't like this color. That's what girls
38:41
like. Don't play like it. Okay. But they're now not told what you're doing a healthy way. Maybe the
38:47
toxic, you know, bachelor lifestyle, whatever. But that's it. And then they'll be a man, be a man,
38:55
be a man. What does be a man mean? And in what culture and what context in the workplace as a
39:00
father, I mean, so not to make excuses for them, but I do understand when it now comes to serious
39:05
life struggles, why they don't speak about it, because they never had this face to, didn't know
39:11
how to. And even when they tried to, we're told, be a man, there was no handbook. And I mean,
39:16
I know that not every woman also gets a handbook on how to be a woman, but we're talking about
39:21
it more. We're the ones who are going to share babes. Guess what's sad on I just found? Babes,
39:27
I just got this on that website. Girl, you might not want to tell everybody, because you know,
39:30
someone might tee for your idea and run. But for the most part, we're sharing recipes, we're
39:35
sharing the little intel secrets around running our little organizations and communities and
39:39
whatever. Whereas the men, I feel like they're not talking in the same way. I think when you
39:47
said that the first thing that came to my mind is I remember a particular instance when I realized
39:52
that rate like how women raised children is different in the sense that my kids were at the
39:59
park and they were on some sites like climbing frame. And my instinct was to tell them, no,
40:05
be careful. I don't think that's like a good idea. And I had to check myself. But I hold on,
40:12
risky play is a part of development. And if you look at how, for example, dads play with their
40:17
kids, it's very much like dashed them in the air and catch them and God knows how many feet.
40:21
And it's just a very different energy, right? It's a very boisterous energy. And so I smiled when
40:27
you said that because even aside from emotions, that was the image that came to my mind, the idea
40:33
that I do think it is natural. I'm not going to caveat it and say 50 million exceptions to the
40:38
rule. But I do think that it is natural for us as women to be a little bit more protective with
40:45
like obstacles and that physical risk. Whereas men, I see it all the time. They let the put in drop
40:50
as they should, by the way. And then they help them back up. Yes. You know, and just having that
40:55
balance of different energy, I think is really, really important for children. So I think what you've
41:01
said, we just, you know, the woman is going to have the more feminine energy and do it that way.
41:09
And the guy will have more masculine energy and do it his way. And sometimes they're not all going
41:14
to be right in every single instance. There's going to be times where it should have been a bit more
41:18
of one or the other. But when it's more of one and not the other, then you get more of the harsh
41:25
side, maybe more of the logical, everything structured in one way. And then you don't get the
41:30
softness. But if you have too much of the softness and not too much of the, I mean, it's just,
41:35
it needs around for me. And I don't even think it's just on the mother and father. It literally
41:40
takes a village to raise a child. And I did not understand that saying, I knew it, but until my sister
41:45
had my nephew. Okay. And then I was like, this is what they mean when they say it takes a village
41:50
to raise a child because it's many humans, many humans doing many things over many years to
41:57
form that human. It's not just one and done single parent. You know, so again, one of the things
42:04
that I think in the UK, it's normalized a lot to do there and just you get on with it. And whether
42:10
your ritual poor, the struggle is the struggle and you get on with it, whereas again, the UAE is not
42:15
perfect. But I see that there is more of the nuclear type home that's promoted. I'm not saying that
42:23
everybody's set up is also the best. You made this time and just full stop hand on because
42:30
someone's going to be like, yeah, well, you know what I'm going to say, I'm here. Where are you?
42:41
I'm in Dubai. Where are you? I mean, that mean one for Jamaica. Yeah, I'm in Jamaica. Where are you?
42:47
I love it. Yes. But what you say about the village is so true. I shared a video very recently,
42:53
like last week and I nearly never shared it about the fact that my girls and I were in South
42:58
Africa, we were by the pool and a older British white male came over to me because at the time,
43:06
my girls were swimming, they were splashing and they got wine in, sorry, water in his wine. So
43:11
pool water going wine. And I'm on the bed and I can see what's happening. And he said, no,
43:15
no, no, no, you can't, you can't have pool water in the wine. And so they moved and they came
43:21
to me and I said to them, did you apologize? And they said, yes, I said, but I needed to go back
43:27
and properly say that you're sorry and it won't happen again. And they did so and they moved on.
43:32
They weren't offended. It was fine. He then comes up on over later and says to me, I'm really sorry.
43:39
I think it was a reaction. I didn't mean to shout. I didn't think he was shouting, but he's
43:43
like, I didn't mean to shout. I think it was just the surprise of the water. You should be very
43:47
proud of your girls. They are so lovely. And I said, babe, I'm from Jamaica. You don't need to
43:52
apologize. I told them to apologize because that's how they learn. Five-year-olds learn when
43:58
we tell them and there's nothing but he was so apologetic. I've said, honestly, I'm not from
44:02
the UK. You don't need to apologize. It's all good. And I was sharing the story online just because I
44:08
felt that other people would have made it racial where I really don't think I had anything to do
44:13
with colour. He just happened to be a white man. He wasn't saying that to my children because he
44:18
was a white man and they weren't. And I also wanted to highlight that I believe in the village. I
44:24
genuinely believe in the village. And once my children are being taught things that I want to
44:29
reinforce, the village should step in. I was in Southeast Asia and a gentleman told my daughter to
44:35
sit. She was sitting on her knees and he said, no, you have to sit on your bomb. And he couldn't even
44:39
speak English, but he was showing the actions and telling her how to sit. And to me, those moments
44:43
are beautiful. They're beautiful because my children get to learn from other people. And especially
44:49
when the voice is coming from an elder, I think it's nice for children to hear what you say,
44:54
but echoed from other sources. And something that comes to my mind all the time is I was leaving
45:00
to go to record in South Africa. And one of my daughters was upset that I had to go. And so I said,
45:06
should we call Tata Dendin, a switch called my sister? Should we call it and she said, yes,
45:10
we should call Tata Dendin and why she's crying? And so I call my sister and I said, no,
45:15
what is upset right now because I'm leaving. That's all I said. Immediately, she's clocking. But you
45:21
know why mom needs to leave. And she then comes with the energy to reinforce what I have already
45:26
explained in a beautiful way. Because again, I say to people, it might sound harsh, but if I don't
45:32
approve of your values or, you know, there are friends that you can be around my children when
45:38
they're all done. And the foundation is solid. But at this age, I'm very, very select. I don't
45:44
care if it may be in blood. I'm very selective about who's around my children because I want that
45:49
when you're around them, I can trust that when you do what the village is supposed to do,
45:53
it aligns with my values. And if it doesn't align, then no, you can't, you can't be that village.
45:59
But what I find in modern day living not only has our lifestyles kind of pulled us apart in terms
46:04
of time, but more importantly than that, people don't want villagers. They don't want people to talk
46:10
to them about their child because there's an immediate defensiveness that I don't think helps anyone
46:16
involved. As long as the person is coming to you with purity, with that kindness, with sincerity,
46:24
then I think that even if we disagree, we shouldn't be on the attack.
46:30
Yeah, you know, I think the British male, I think you hit the nail on the head, it's a very
46:36
British and politically correct way of behaving. That's the first thing. And I learned that
46:40
being in Dubai, I didn't think about it before, but now I realized that there's other European
46:45
who are very direct and straight to the point, especially Russians. I worked with a Danish person
46:50
for a good few years as well. They're very direct. As Brits, we apologise for everything, even when
46:55
it's not our fault. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, even this caveat that I'm doing now,
47:00
you just want to clear it out before, you know, just say it as it is, that's the first thing.
47:05
Second thing is, I think so much of us have been like engulfed by Western
47:11
standards and I think American standards. And so, you know, growing up by a member, you know,
47:19
have you had a triple or four, like all these adverts where if this happens to you,
47:23
consume, if that happens, you can suit whatever it says, like people got to a point, in my opinion,
47:28
of you don't want to say nothing, that's you're not supposed to say, you don't want to say,
47:31
because you're going to get in trouble for it. Okay, in the EU, when we were in the EU, yes,
47:35
for race, for ageism, for certain things, there is discrimination laws. And if it's
47:40
discriminating, you shouldn't be saying it or doing it, but outside of that, it then now feels like
47:47
everything has to be politically correct, because you don't offend the wrong group, the wrong
47:50
age, and I'm not saying, obviously, that those laws shouldn't be there, but now we're being
47:55
politically correct for everything. So now you can't discipline somebody else's child, because
47:59
someone might tell me and say, who are you talking to? Am I picking it up? Or for whatever the
48:05
thing, like parents going down to the schools and rather than backing up what the teacher saying,
48:09
like you did, but you said it's so weird to me. They are now telling off the teacher,
48:13
because how dare you tell off my child? And it's like, are you okay? And see, I don't have children
48:19
yet, but my sister has my nephew. So exactly as you said, I know that there's some sort of
48:24
carrying on that can't be going on here, you know, I've been telling mine since he was a baby,
48:29
can we use the inside voice, please? We need to be quiet at this time. And of course, when he's
48:33
a baby, he doesn't know what I'm saying, but you encourage and have those kind of things introduce
48:38
at that time. But here, I don't discipline anybody's child, because I don't know whose child they are
48:43
from what country they're from. They might be German or Russian or Pakistani, whatever. I don't
48:48
know. I just don't get involved, right? If they're friendly, which a lot of people are,
48:53
then maybe you engage in some like conversation. But really, if they want to cut something,
48:57
I just, because I know I'm in the UAE, I don't want to get arrested, I don't want to get
49:02
satan just like me. Let me just fall back to that. I mean, but I do think it's a shame because
49:08
it definitely takes a full history of the child, your neighbours. And people that you know are safe,
49:12
okay? Yes, there is strange a danger. And that's a real thing in a lot of places in the world.
49:18
But when they are adults who are doing it for the better of the community and for the child
49:23
safety most likely, I think it is a real shame that that has kind of been eroded. So,
49:30
do you see the buyers home? Now I do. Yeah, I've really been able to build up my own lane and I've
49:38
made some amazing friendships here. I can't believe I've been here nine years, actually. But nine
49:43
years here, you know, a lot of people have come and gone. But a lot of us are still here, you know,
49:48
10 years, 15, 20 years. I know one or two been here 25 years. And yeah, there's just friendships
49:55
that I would never have had if I stayed in the UK, because I think, you know, you know, you know,
49:59
family and your friends are your people and the odd new friendships might strike up. But here,
50:04
you're making new connections and new friends all the time. Some of them develop and get
50:08
deeper, some of them you never see them again. But I really do have invitations to so many places
50:13
around the world because of the people I met from here. So yeah, I feel like it's home now.
50:19
I know where I'm going. I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm building. I've, you know, got a
50:24
community and a membership and every month we go out and do different events together.
50:30
I've got a lot of different business affiliations. And yeah, it's just a thing's
50:34
revolving. And so I really feel like it might not be home forever, but it's definitely got a
50:40
place in my heart. And yeah, it's home for now. If somebody was thinking about moving, not necessarily
50:45
to Dubai, but in general, what would you say to them? I would say you are not a tree. So if
50:53
you're not happy, move. We can sit and try to dissect and plan until the end degree. And I'm
51:01
not saying you should just throw caution to the wind and check nothing and go on the plane tomorrow.
51:06
But if you want something and your heart is calling for a particular location or just a change
51:11
of scenery, follow that calling because, you know, I didn't know what was calling me to Dubai
51:16
until I got here. I thought it was for music and low and behold, music is not part of my journey
51:20
anymore. And I don't miss it. And I don't regret it. It took me to where it needed to. But I've
51:25
understood now that I'm here, the work that I'm doing. I'm using my voice has been the calling
51:31
that I was supposed to come and do. So yeah, I'm very proud. And I think anyone who wants to do
51:38
the same, it doesn't have to be some big grand story either. It's just a case of maybe you need to
51:42
change scenery for your mental health. Maybe your business is going to thrive somewhere else. Maybe
51:46
you're going to meet the love of your life somewhere else. Whatever the story may be, it might
51:51
just be that you need to do a year out of the UK or out of wherever and go back and rebuild. But
51:58
that journey, no matter how it goes, because it's not always going to be smooth sailing, there will
52:04
always be challenges. The growth in that period is like unmatched. And you can't plan for every
52:11
scenario either. You think you can, but you can't. So when you book that ticket, when you get on
52:17
that plane, when you meet those people, when you find out the visa restrictions and customs laws,
52:21
and when you get those kind of challenges and you overcome them, yeah, you're a different person
52:26
on the other side. And I just think it's something that you can't buy either. You know, yes, it is
52:33
a plane ticket or a year away or whatever, but you can't buy that experience. So you just have to do
52:39
it. Is there anything that you would have wanted to touch on that we haven't?
52:46
I think we covered so much. I've really enjoyed the conversation really.
52:51
But yeah, if anyone wants to connect, I'd love to continue conversations like this. And if they
52:56
are coming to Dubai, help them connect in on the ground. And yeah, earning more money once you're
53:03
here, I can help with that. Amazing. Thank you very much. I have one more question.
53:07
Yes. If your life was a postcard, what would the picture look like?
53:13
With me and Burj Khalifa in the background, anytime I take a picture wherever I'm in Dubai,
53:18
I'm like, where's Burj Khalifa? I love it. So tallest building in the world. And I just think, yeah,
53:26
sell it. So smile, never regret it, and keep going. So yeah, that's me.
53:33
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.