Latest / The Trauma Therapist / The Guest Host Series Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW interviews Bria Wannamaker, MS

Transcript

The Guest Host Series Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW interviews Bria Wannamaker, MS · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist podcast. My name is Gamiferson.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Hello Bria, Hello, so pumped. I know, welcome to the show.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. This is awesome.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, I know you know. I've been on your amazing podcast.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: And for those who don't know, tell us tell us
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: a little bit about that before we get started.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: Okay, Well, my podcast is Therapy with Bria, and it
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: has been a long journey through podcasting. Like I've been podcasting,
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: it's only been I mean three or four years, but
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: the evolution it's grown with me. So at first it
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: was focused on eating disorder recovery, and then I shifted
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: through boundaries and now it's a really focused on bringing
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: to like tough conversations for parents and educators and supporting kiddos.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So I'm happy with where it's at.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a great podcast for anyone who
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: hasn't who hasn't listened to it yet, So tell everyone
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: a little bit about yourself and kind of your evolution
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: to to where you are today.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Who it's loaded.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot that's gone and it's so interesting,
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: like how everyone has their journey. And I think that
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: for me, one of the biggest pieces of my life
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: has been fitness and I'm not sure how it intertwines
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: with everything yet, but it's like just a really important
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: part of who I am. And it's interesting too because
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: I've had that unhealthy relationship with fitness and health and
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: so I guess like now evolving to having a really
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: healthy relationship with my body and move and so that
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: is like the backbone for me, and everything that I
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: do is making sure I'm moving, getting outside active.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: So I love being able to have a flexible role.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: So my role is for work anyway, I'm a psychotherapist,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: and so I think that's really nice because it allows
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: me to have flexibility to be outside and to be
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: moving and doing all the things. I'm a marathon runner,
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: I'm a single mom, and it's just I mean, I
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: couldn't have imagined a few years ago like being able
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: to do all the strong things that I can do.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: I think belief about ourself is everything, so I guess
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: that's just a bit.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: About me, who I am, what I'm doing, and.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah amazing, And we aren't, you know, we
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: aren't just one thing. I think it's important to remember
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: we're humans first, human ing and having very very human experiences,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: and you know, so often we will get involved in
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: the things that we've experienced ourselves. And I know with
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: like whether having an unhealthy relationship with fitness, and I
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: know you did, like eating disorder work as well, Like
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: how and how this all is intertwined right with the
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: boundaries with having hard conversations with our upbringing, and so
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: with the work you are currently doing, like please please
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: tell us how you kind of walked into this, into
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: this field, this specific niche.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: So it's funny because everyone's always like your purpose will
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: come to you, and I was like, but I'm an
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: action oriented, like goal driven person. I'm going to go
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: find what my purpose is and my niche and my
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: focus clinically.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: And it just doesn't work that way. You know.
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: I've tried to put myself out there to like run
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: different groups or do couples therapy and things like that,
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: and that's just not that's not my purpose, my niche
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: is I work with a lot of neurodivirgin people, so
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: I support a lot of folks with autism ADHD. And
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: what's more is I'm seeing a ton of kiddos with
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: big behaviors, so big emotions, big behaviors, diagnoses like ODD
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: like oppositional defined disorder, IED, intermittent explosive disorder, and everything
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: else kind of under the sun that's being thrown at
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: kids these days. So that's really my role right now
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: is supporting children, youth teens and their families, which is huge.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: It's amazing to you know, have a whole family come
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: sit in on a session and just be focused on
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  Speaker 4: learning new skills that you know they haven't learned yet
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: through their own blueprint. So this is the work when
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: we're sitting clinically in session like that's learning the coping
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: tools and strategies and skills to shift what's not working
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: and kind of break free of those old patterns and habits.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: So I don't know how I fell into this, it's
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: so fascinating. Th I have worked in youth detention centers,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: which is a whole, you know, different ballgame. It's really
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: hard to see the kiddos who are detained and it's
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: almost like they didn't have a chance when you really
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: get to talk to them, just with their backgrounds and upbringing.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: So I've worked with youth detention, youth and contact with
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: the law, and youth who have been homeless, and I've
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: just always had experience with working and supporting people with autism.
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: I also don't know how I fell into that. It's
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: just one of those things that's kind of magnetically drawn.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: So like even through growing up, I was a cheerleader
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: and I coached, you know, the special needs team and
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: worked with lots of kiddos with autism, and then it's
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: just kind of translated into my work now. So I
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: love that and I think it's huge. It's being able
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: to give a voice and an understanding to people who
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: often feel marginalized or who are just dismissed overall.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: So that's I think my favorite piece. Mmmmmmm, so so beautiful.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: And I have I have a lot of different different questions, right,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: because you're working mostly with with youth and their and
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: their families, and like so much comes to mind, like right,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: generational generational trauma and is it you know, I was
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: discussing this on other podcasts, like does the diagnoses come first,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: or is it the trauma that comes first, or is
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: it sometimes both at the same time? Right?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Like, what are you what are your thoughts on that?
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: It's it's huge, Okay, So I have an opinion, you know.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: I I believe in the trauma first, Like I think
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: that's what is underlying there. And when I say trauma,
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: I mean as simple as the attachment wounding piece, any
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: kind of rupture in that initial and primary connection to
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: attachment caregivers, which.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Which is no fault.
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  Speaker 4: And I think that a lot of people, like families
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: and parents, want to look for the diagnosis so that
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: there's an explanation. But humans, we need the connection. We
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: need a strong, trusting, safe, loving connection from in utero onward.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: And so when we're having these these little ruptures here
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: and there, it's no one's to blame. I think that's
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: the hardest piece to look at is everybody is always
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: thinking I could have done better, what should I have changed?
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: That's not the point. The point is life is a
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: journey and you're going to go through moments of stress,
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: chronic stress. There's going to be all kinds of things
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: going on. It's how we how we manage it. How
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: we how do we navigate it? So I think that
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: can be really scary for people to think of it
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: in that light of the trauma piece coming first, the
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: rupture and the relationship between parent and child that's maybe
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: been a a trigger or a cue for any kind
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: of behavioral disruptions later on. You know that the child
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: is wanting something, they're needing something, they're craving something. There's
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: that kind of a void. So I guess that's my
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: opinion is you know, if it's the what came first,
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: I think that's the basis for everything, Like human connection
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  Speaker 4: is everything, And I think a diagnosis is just a
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: fancy label for all the collected symptoms to help us
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: better understand. A diagnosis can be a fantastic thing for
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: many people, and it really helps people to gain insight,
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: and it can help people a lot of people to
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: get motivation towards making a change in their life if
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: they have an understanding and there's it kind of can
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: take some of the shame away rather than being like
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: people thinking what's wrong with me? Why do I do
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  Speaker 4: these things? Why am I not able to do these things?
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  Speaker 4: Why am I procrastinating on this? Why do impulsively say
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: these things. Why am I ruminating over this? Why do
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: I keep thinking? You know, what's the point of life?
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: A diagnosis helps people to have that understanding and motivation
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  Speaker 4: of Okay, here's what's going on, here's what the symptoms say,
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  Speaker 4: and here's what I can do to move forward with it.
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it's such an interesting debate.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: So so fascinating.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: And you know, as someone was explaining to me in
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Maslow's hierarchy of me, it's how technically the first you know,
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: the bottom the bottom row is technically supposed to be
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: community and connection.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: And I totally agree with that.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: It makes it makes sense, right because, like you said,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: if that's ruptured, you know, it's difficult to reach the
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: top right of actualization with without having that strong foundation,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: that strong and healthy attachment piece. And you know, it's
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: really interesting too with a you know, even for myself,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: like with with finally getting diagnosed later on in life,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: it actually ironically brought me to community, right.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: I was able to connect with people on this like
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: you have it too. You get me, you.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Understand, like there's it's it's funny how that but all
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: comes together again. But I also can see and understand
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: how my attachments triggered triggered it as well as you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: various symptoms.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: It makes it makes sense, right, I was. I always
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: say it's.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: A normal, a normal response to an abnormal dynamic and situation,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: over and over and over and over again.
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  Speaker 2: We you know, and it helped us.
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  Speaker 3: It helped us survive, which is fantastic, and sometimes it
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: doesn't help us thrive.
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  Speaker 2: So that's that.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: That's when understanding it and we're like working with a
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: therapist on it and doing the trauma work can be
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: I mean for sure, always beneficial, like really really beneficial
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: and can help with with symptoms.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure you've so I was gonna ask.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Like with getting proper treatment right like trauma informed therapy
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: for example, somatic informed therapy, And do you see a
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: decrease in symptoms?
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: How does that look for you on your side?
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great question because I think the day
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: to day life maybe doesn't shift, especially for kids because
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: they don't have a ton of control over their environment.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: And environment is everything like what you're saying, that community piece,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: the attachment, the belonging in a family, dynamic family system.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Kids don't have a lot of control like adults can
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: have different coping skills. You know, if something is stressing
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: us out, we can go for a walk, grab a coffee, call,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: text a friend. Kids don't have the same resource is
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: so in terms of like decreasing symptoms, I think one
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: of the biggest things that I can see on my
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: end is kids opening up more, like being able to
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: speak more freely about their emotions, which is so fascinating
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: because there's been all this work around you know, mental health,
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: mental health awareness and like, you know, the things that
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Bellot's talk has created. You know, people would hash take
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: that till the cows come home, but there's still so
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: much stigma, and so especially for kiddos, and especially you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: young boys have been socially conditioned to just still not
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: don't talk about anything. The only people they really have
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: to talk to are their parents. Young girls, I find
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: talk to each other in groups that social community, but
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: that's less available to young boys. So that's really neat
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: for me in clinical practice to see like, oh, they
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: have a deeper understanding of themselves. Oh you sharing this,
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: this was relevant to you throughout your week. That type
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: of growth is phenomenal I think to see because that's
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: gonna help with the emotional regulation later on.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: So in terms of decreasing.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Symptoms, just that level of awareness and being able to,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: I guess, check yourself and recognize when they're feeling disregulated
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: is huge but really challenging when you go back to
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: a disregulated or chaotic environment, Right, it's like you have
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: these moments of breakthrough, but then you're put back in
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: this situation that's maybe not supportive to your growth. So
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: I see that as like a major barrier. But or
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: same thing not just families, but in school. You know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: if kids are able to kind of work through process
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: things in therapy and then with their parents, like the
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: family is supportive and everything, but then they're put back
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: into school as like an unhealthier safe environment. Maybe there's
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: violence in the school or bullying and nothing's being done.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: I hear most is that in schools like nothing's being done,
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: as in like people's hands are kind of tied, even
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: though they say there's like a zero tolerance policy. So
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: that's really challenging.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Pieces.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when kids are starting to feel better, they're mentally
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: like strong, resilient, they've kind of processed their own anxiety.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: We work through things on like healthy boundaries and what
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: are you going to? What would you do in this
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: situation with a peer. But then they're put back into
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: you know, the school that feels unsafe or they don't
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: feel protected there or supported or resourced.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Is challenging, yeah, big time.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: It's like they're only back into the into the deep
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: right each each time. But I do believe even with
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: some awareness, it is helpful. Right then zero then zero awareness.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: It's like this awareness of like this isn't cool, this
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: isn't right. It sucks that I feel like I don't
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: have a choice and I have to be in this dynamic,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: be it at home or in school. However, at least
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I know I'm not in the wrong here, like this
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: is this is their stuff being projected onto me. How
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: as a therapist though, like I don't, I don't work
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: with with children, like I can imagine that must be
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: really challenging to work with work with a kiddo and
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: then see them enter back into these environments like how
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: do you go about that?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: How do you move through that? Oh?
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: Do you know what?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I think?
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Just by keeping that connection open and knowing that, Okay,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: next time, let's just revisit what's gone on over the
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: past week and keep moving forward together. I think that's
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: my mindset is. You know, maybe I would have struggled
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: with it more a few years ago in the terms
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: of like feeling powerless, like I can't make that change
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: for you.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I can't make your home.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Better, I can't make you or school better or life easier.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: So it's that really that piece of in terms of
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: working as a therapist, the acceptance part of we see
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: them for one hour maybe once a week, you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: same kind of thing if working with somebody who's experiencing
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: suicidal ideation like that can be really challenging too. To
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: also do as much as you can clinically and give
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: them that support, give them the resources the education around it,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: process with them as much as they can. But at
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: some point, like part of the therapeutic relationship too, is
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: not building a relationship that's codependent. It's having that safe
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: base to come back to, but also knowing like, Okay,
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: I trust you, you got this. So that's been really
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: big for me is like I don't want people to
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: be dependent on me. I want to just be their
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: sounding board and then they can they can go do
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: their thing, like you got this, But also be their
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: cheer leader, you.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Know, definitely, definitely like really teaching teaching them how to
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: how to fish right, Like you got your you've.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Got your pool, you've got you've got all the you
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: got all the tools, you've got the resources.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Like in a suicidal ideation, you know, we have a
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: prevention plan in place, like really really putting that well,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: empowering them right.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: To take a big charge.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: In their in their own life because often so much
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: of what they're moving through is very disempowering. But here's
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: a person who's consistent, healthfully consistent in their life where
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: they have a safe space to share, you know, usually
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: once a week or every couple of weeks, however however
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: that looks, and and then being given the tools and.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Resources to to do that and take care of themselves.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: And yeah, so it's that's I think it's a really
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: important thing that you just shared for all of us therapists,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: regardless of the populations in which we work with, because
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: I know even I've had moments, especially in the pastords
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: like I can't save them. You know, it's it's challenging,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: and it's like that just proved to me the work
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: I needed to do with myself on myself and.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: Shout out to code Pendants anonymous honestly, And I think
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: that's the draining part of the job, like before we
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: learn that, like the serenity prayer is just my guiding
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: light in my entire life.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Just like cool, accept it, I'll change what it can
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: and uh yeah yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: And and and Code of pend its anonymous.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: You know they say let go, let go and let
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: God right or if let universe means more or it
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: makes more sense to you than beautiful, but it is true.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: It's like I know, I tried my best and I
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: have to I have to let it go from from here.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: So I know, Like you bring it back to you
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: working with the families, I'm curious, like have you have
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: you seen generational patterns shift by working with the kiddos
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: and the families or do you see that awareness just
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: come in and shift things in it of itself.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: That's a challenging piece actually, because the idea is like, here,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: fix my kid, something's wrong with them. And like, just
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: coming back to what I was saying at the start,
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: like it is scary to look in the mirror. It's
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: scary for parents to look in the mirror. There's so
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: much shame, especially I was gonna say on the internet
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: when I was like, oh, that makes me sound like
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: a grandma. There's so much shame. I'll say it anyway.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: There's so much shame out there on the internet of
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: these groups too.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah of you know, parents and what
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: they should be doing versus everybody is literally trying their
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: best with what they have been given, so I can
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: it's absolutely terrifying to come to a therapist and say.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Wow, it's me. Maybe it's me, don't.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know how to navigate this. This is really
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: challenging as a parent. Can I get some support and
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: strategies and actually like a solid amount, I'd say it's
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: fifty to fifty, you know, like sometimes it's here to
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: fix my kid, and sometimes it's parents coming and be like,
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: my kid really needs, you know, support and a safe
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: place to share because they won't share with me. And
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: also can we get some like parenting help support. I
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: think that parents will do anything for their kids, and
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: whether it's an extracurricular activity or you know, bringing them
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: to therapy or appointments, appointments, and I think that.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Parents have been taught to be.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: Martyrs in that sense and not focus a lot on
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: self as in it selfish to do self care. It's
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: selfish to take say a parent went to their own
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: therapy appointment, it's like three hours minimum.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: You you commute there, you talk for an hour, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: you commute home or whatever else. You run a couple
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: of errands. Like, it's a long process, and I think
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: that we don't allow ourselves enough grace as parents to
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: do those things. So then it becomes a scramble and
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: it's like a catching up game and just putting band
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: aids here and there to kind of fill in the
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: gaps rather than doing the deeper work. It's just, Yeah,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: I'm seeing people don't have and I'm curious, like we
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: you think on this too? Is it people don't have
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: the time to do these things for themselves. People are
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: too stressed out people. I think also we like to
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: know that something is gonna work and gonna make us
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: feel better. Like if I'm going to book a massage,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: I know I'm going to feel it after the massage. Okay,
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: it's gonna like one percent of the time, it's gonna
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: be great. If you book a therapy appointment for yourself.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: You don't know that you're gonna be like quote unquote fixed.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: You don't know you're gonna be less anxious or less
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: panicked because it's a process and again there's still so
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: much stigma and hesitancy around it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And it's not an overnight fix.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: So you know, people will maybe book a massage or
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: go to the spa, or won't take any time for themselves,
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: or they'll go see their family doctor and get a
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: prescription instead because it's quicker than the therapeutic process.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: So in terms of intergenerational shift, to answer your question, no, like.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: I'm not seeing the shift that we need to have it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: I think it's a work in progress. And the biggest
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: barrier to that is like this heavy layer of shame
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: of like parents should know what they're doing, they should
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: be perfect, you should show up in this way for
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: your kid. But then also they're working three jobs to
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: make ends meet.
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: So how yeah, yeah, I And it's like we focus
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: so much on the flower not on the soil, right
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: what how how is the help of the soil?
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Why is this person literally working three jobs? Like why
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: is that a thing? And then expected to show up
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: and be present and their parenting to show up and
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: be present in all aspects of their lives and take
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: care of themselves. Like it's it is a really big ass.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: There are quite a few barriers and this is just
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: this is the reality. We need to we need to
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: call it out as as it is. And what you
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: were saying earlier too, it's like when you're booking a
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: massage over over going to therapy, like I know that
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: I've had not great massages where I'm like, literally I
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: could have just put lotion on myself.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: No, no, this right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: And I feel the same way about therapy, meaning like
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: you have to find the therapist who's a good fit
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: for you. Like I even tell the folks I work with,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I'm like, if you do not feel lighter by the
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: end of our session, then I might it might be
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: that I'm just not the right fit for you, like
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: ego aside, Like really, let's.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Find you a person who who is that for you?
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: And you know, if instead of commuting you meet with
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: someone like this telehelp, which is what I offer online,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: if you could only do twenty minutes at a time
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: like talking to someone and root home from dropping off
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: your kids.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Like let's let's work it out.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Let's figure it out to match your schedule, your needs,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: what works, what works for you, Like something is is
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: out there, something does exist that can be helpful and
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: make sense.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: That also is going to be more economical.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: And like I said earlier, code of meetings are free,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: you know, like anyone can attend. There may like twelve
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: steps just as an example, Like there are so many
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: programs out there. I'm just giving one which is twelve
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: step programs. So there are there a are resources that
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: we can all tap into and look into. It's just
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: a matter of creating that space to do that. And
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: and by doing that, you are the one breaking that
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: general in my opinion, breaking that generational pattern of not
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: feeling like you are worthy enough to be included in
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: the equation of of your family, of your well being,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: of your priority list, you know, because I see parents
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: do this all the time. It's like kid first kid,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: first kid, which is a beautiful thing. Like like you said,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: parents will usually do everything in their power for their
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: you know, for their child, their child's well being, without
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: including themselves. So so anyway, it's it's it's such a
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: it's such a thing. But I was also going to say,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: like I I respectfully disagree with you because you are
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: you are seeing a generational shift by just working with
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: the child.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: That's I I'm loving the I'm lovingly telling you that
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: because it's that child.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Oh man, my, what my life would have looked like
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: if I had their Yeah, you know, like it's it's
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: an amazing thing that you're doing, like really truly.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I hope.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: I actually I'm so happy you said that, because it
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: is those those smaller steps the things, and I think
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: we don't think about that sometimes like that it has
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: to be a massive shift in behavior or in gentle
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: parenting or the way they interact or whatever. So that's
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: a really good point, is it can be just those
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: ways in which parents are showing up now that they're
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: the generation before did not show up for them, could
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: not based on their experiences in history. So if it's
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: really neat, just shifting, shifting the conversation to what can
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: we do now? I've been Actually that thought popped into
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: my mind as well when you were speaking. I run
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: with my daughter often in the stroller, and so that's
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: something to me that pops up as a parent, like, oh,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: this is selfish, Like I'm taking time for myself. This
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: feels weird, but then it's there's that other beautiful voice
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: that pops in and it's like, because this isn't the
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: blueprint you were given. There's this piece of my family
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't didn't run. So it's really neat to reframe it
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: even looking at like, oh, this is a gift I
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: get to give her. She's spending time outside. We're part
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: of running club, she's meeting this community. She's learning that
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: it's okay to take time for yourself and move your body.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: So it can feel strange shifting out of patterns that
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: you know you weren't in your original blueprint, but you're
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: making a new one. I think is the most important
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: piece because I guess even in that like grandparents could say,
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: you know, oh why you're taking your kid to therapy,
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: and so it might feel strange for somebody to break
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: out of that old mindset. And it's like, it's okay
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: to create new things. It's okay to you know, take
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: your kid to therapy. It's okay to go for or
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: run with them, it's okay to bring them on errands.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: And I think we.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: Have a lot that's a really empowering piece is being
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: like Okay, I can take ownership over my life and
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: make decisions that work for me, rather than just trying
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: to navigate in the chaotic distress that was given to me.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Let's shift through and choose something new.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: And it's it's like that familiar hell versus unfamiliar heaven. Right,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: But that shit, it's just so so uncomfortable if that's
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: not what we grew up in. It's not what we
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: were raised in. So yeah, these parents bringing their children
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: to therapy, it's huge if you really if you really
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: conceptualize it and really put it up against their parents
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: and like their parents did way better than the generation before,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: and so on and so forth. And like I think
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: you were telling you, like putting her in a stroller,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, that's so beautiful. She gets
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: to be with her with her mom, as her mom
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: takes care of herself. She learns, you know, our parents
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: are our first teachers, and she's teaching me I can
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: take space and time to take care of myself. And
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: I'm learning that running is actually really fun and maybe
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I get to do this with my mom when I'm older,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and I get to be part of these running clubs
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: and meet really interesting people, healthy people like who are
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: who are prioritizing their health.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So amazing, beautiful, And.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: You're going to be writing about this right all about
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: all about these things.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Oh gosh, tell us about it. This book has been
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: years in the making.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: So this book tells stories of people who I've seen struggle.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: I have a few, you know, stories that stand out
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: in my mind of families of children who are really
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: wanting to be seen and having That's why you know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: these big behaviors, that's why you know kids are throwing
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: chairs in the classroom, in the tablets, and they're being
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: sent to the principal's office, and you know, they're acting
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: out violently or aggressively at home. I think that's my
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: main focus in this book is that they're having these
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: really big behaviors, and what's interesting is they're often being
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: you know, punished or corrected for them, like in in
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Ontario right now in Canada, there's Bill thirty three that
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: is coming out, like it's in the it's in the works,
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: which is to put a safety resource officer I believe
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: that's what it's called SRO in the schools, which is
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: basically it's a police office or that works in the
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: schools because of this kind of increase in violence and
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: averrant behavior. So I don't have a fully formed and
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: resourced educated opinion on this yet, but I do have questions,
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: right like why are we paying for this rather than
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: you know, other mental health supports. And you know, how
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: come there's not you know, some kind of coach who
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: can like play sports with the kids who are having
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: a challenging time in class and like move their bodies.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: Somebody who just stands outside and is like, okay, kids, like,
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: let's run labs around the track.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: You have this energy?
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Or how come somebody isn't available to like sit quietly
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: with them if they're needing that moment of connection, Like
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: let's color a.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Picture because something creative.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Let's yeah, no, I love that, like the creative piece too.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: I'm like such a high energy person, let's run labs.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: But seriously, whatever the kid, the kiddo needs.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know, emotion is energy and motion, so
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: how how do we irrigate it in a healthy way?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: And is a law?
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: And for I mean again, I don't know anything about
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: this is new to me, so I don't want I
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: also don't have an exact opinion, but I like you
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: have questions like.
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: Why why not a police officer like yeah there are yeah, yeah,
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: what so we're policing children, which is this notion of
• 32:26
  Speaker 7: correction over connection And for me, it's like, again going
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, why not connection over correction?
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: And I think what's interesting is when kids have these
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: really big behaviors, a lot of adults are either you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: kind of overdoing it the correction piece or pulling away.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: It can be really scary to have a kiddo who
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: is in your face or really demanding, so like that
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: just attachment styles pieces.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Some adults will.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: Pull away, but the kid is saying something. It's a
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: message or their behavior. I need something like I feel
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: like I'm dying is what they're saying. Essentially, I don't
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: feel safe, I don't feel secure, Like please help me
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: is the message in any big behavior because people don't
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: want to do that. There isn't a single kid who
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: has sat down in my office. Every time I ask
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, like did that feel good when you
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: were angry and like aggressive and this happened. No one
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: has ever said, well, yes, like anger can sometimes feel good,
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: but no one has ever said like, yeah, that feels awesome,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: I want to do it again. That totally creates those,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: like we're talking about ruptures in all the social connections.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: It's embarrassing when people don't feel like they have control
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: over their behavior, and it really puts kind of a
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: target on their back for you know, peers to be
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: making fun of them, or authority figures, teachers, educators, So
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: nobody wants to behave in that way. So I'm huge
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: on the notion of lets instead of pulling back or
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: resisting or overcorrecting, like, let's connect, Let's lean in and
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: see what's going on.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So that is what the book is about.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: It's telling these stories I've seen. There's you know, one
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: person in particular who I've been able to kind of
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: follow like across the lifespan oddly enough, just like keep
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: poking back into my life and it's like, Wow, this
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: person really fell through the cracks, and how do we
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: bridge the gap for people like this who had a
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: really challenging upbringing, really challenging experience in school and went
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: on to adult life and also continued to face challenges
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: that render them in contact with the law and It's like,
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: why was this missed from when they were age you know,
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: six to twenty three?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: One word?
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: How?
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: How? Why was no one none of the connections able
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: to kind of bridge this gap. So I really want
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: to highlight the stories and make any kind of shift
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: that we can.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: So and this is coming out next this next year, right.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, June twenty twenty sixth, and yeah, I'm really excited.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: This is huge.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: I mean yeah, I've been writing it for years. It's
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: shifted so much again, like same as my niche. I'm like,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: it needs to go this way, and the universe is
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: like absolutely not.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: So now we're on the right track. So yeah, I'm
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: really excited. It's It's true.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: It's like the path, the path finds you in the book,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: the book, the books path also finds you. So for
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: those who want to, yeah, keep like stay updated on
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: this book and on everything you're up to.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: How they how can they do that? Oh my gosh.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Best place to find me is on Instagram. So it's
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: at therapy with Bria Underscore. And yeah, I again like
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: talking about healthy relationships, had a very loving, awesome relationship
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: with social media. Instagram was super active on it and
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: then fell off the map, and now we're at like
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: a balanced place of like posting sometimes when I have
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: the space, when it feels good. So that's a nice,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: nice place to be. And I welcome questions and conversations
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: and DMS. I love love getting into actual conversations with
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: people about real life stuff.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I think is the biggest thing for me. Yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you brought up something important too,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: because like people assume therapists always have this like very
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: very healthy relationship with social media, and often I see
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: therapists on there the most right, like constantly posting, like
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: feeling pressured to to engage and just be on all
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: the time, and then like the pendulum swings and then
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: we're not on there for months, sometimes years. I've talked
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: to various people about it until we find that it's
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: always the middle path and so interesting.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because there's, yeah, that push of like I need
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: to pump out all this information and psycho education for people,
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: and people are looking for what's going on.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of that pressure, and you're.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Up against a really strange algorithm that I don't think
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: I'll ever understand because it shifts and changes so much,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: so often. I do know it's important to constantly post,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: and for the majority of us, that's just really challenging,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: like when we are humaning and living our lives and
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: you know, have work and other things to do. But
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: I just I just wanted to bring that up because
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: I feel like for therapist or providers who are listening
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: or watching, it's a real thing a lot of us
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: move through as a challenge.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: And for those interested, are you accepting new clients by chance?
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah's something. We saw new clients however, just an Ontario
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: in Canada, so that's just where my license is. But yeah,
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: it's it's really great. I work, like you telehealth, and
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: then I also have an office. And after COVID, yeah,
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: I saw that so many people just wanted to be
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: in office. So I think that's really fantastic too, to
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: have face to face and I like the flexibility of both.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: It's nice.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have hybrid and you were showing me your
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: toys earlier for the kiddos.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Let's just say it, it.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: Was yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, so we got these
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: stuffies that we here are usually on the couch. I
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: have a whole slew of games and art and there's
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: paints on the table and it's just there's books and
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: it's grown, there's always it's so fun fascinating what kids
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: are drawn to. They're almost all drawn to the same thing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Like if I have something.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Tactile like these, there's these little squishy toys and it's
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: funny to watch people for like three weeks sit down
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: and pick up the same object that kind of like
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: a grounding tool.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Is really neat to watch.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: So yeah, just something to keep people's hands and mind's
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: busy so they can access, you know, prefront regions of
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: the brain and not be stuck in that fear space
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: is comforting.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: It's true. I mean, and even as adults, it's still
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: comforting for us too. I'm like, I'm like Theracaus. You
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: work with adults, you know, let them, let them grab something,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: let them I know.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Doodle yeah, Doodle, have a crystal. I mean whatever, who's
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: and who did your art? By the way, I love
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: your art.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, let me tell you what the art.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: So one is a splatter painting by my daughter's half sister,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: and one is splatter painting by and then I have
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: a giant canvas over here. It's not on the wall
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: right now. But it is this is there was so
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: much fun. I would like recommend anyone does this. It's
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: an old painting that I had originally bought at a
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: store and I was like, this doesn't fit the decor
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: of my home anymore, and then so we splatter painted
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: on it and it just made it so cool, so unique,
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: and yeah, it was just neat because it was a purchase.
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: And then instead of you know, tossing it getting rid
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: of it, we just made it our own.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah, super fun, cool, repurposed in all of the ways.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: I used to do that with paintings from like thrift
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: stories like Goodwill, Salvation Army, because I'm like, cool, I
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: can literally just use this as a as a a
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: canvas and it's like yeah, nice right, and it's being
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: repurposed in a way, cooler way.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: So oh, rit, thank you so much.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: And I want to I want to ask, is there
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: there's one thing you can impart on those listening or
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: watching today, one thing they can leave with.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: What would that be? What would that message be?
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: Taking time for yourself is everything, and it's okay. It
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: is necessary to have a breather to be able to
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: sit in your body to take a moment. It doesn't
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: matter who you are. I think that's a massive piece
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: is you are worthy and deserving of taking a moment
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: for yourself space doing something you enjoy. We're almost, in
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: my opinion, missing out on the aliveness because of the
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: rushing and the busyness. So creating space, whether it's two minutes,
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: thirty seconds, half an hour, two hours, half a day,
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: take it half a day, you know, ask for help.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: I have asked some family members for help, and it's
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: been amazing to go take half a day. And I
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: deserve that, and I think that's something that we need
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: to get in our heads. You know, I am better
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: when I can rest for a moment. I'm better and
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: alive when I can be me.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: For a moment. And then we can give back to our.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: Families, our communities, the people that we support, our co workers.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: We can have that overflow instead of coming at life
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: from a place of depletion.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pouring from an empty cup is just something I
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: see so off, not even just with moms, like evening
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: single folks. It's like, yeah, we really need to fill
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: our cups up because we show up to life's in
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: such such a present much more beautiful.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Way, in my in my opinion.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So yeah, everyone listening, you deserve that, you deserve to
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: pour from a fuller cup.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, thank you so much, Freya.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: You are a wealth of wisdom and love and goodness
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: and I cannot wait for your upcoming book.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And I just wish you all the best and all
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: of the things.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, thank you for having me. This has
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: been so amazing.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: And again thanks to everyone who listened and watched today.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Take really good care, especially your song Okay,