Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: The Dating App Killer with Elisabeth Rohm: Is your dating app going to get you murdered?

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Killer Thriller: The Dating App Killer with Elisabeth Rohm: Is your dating app going to get you murdered? · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here back with a new episode
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: of Killer Thriller. Today's conversation goes straight into the darkest
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: corners of real life, the kinds of stories that are
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: almost unbearable because they actually happened. We're talking about obsession, manipulation, control,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: and violence and how easily it can hide charm, authority
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: or a dating profile. Our guest today is actress and
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: director Elizabeth Rome, whose work has brought some of the
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: most disturbing true crime cases to the screen, from serial
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: killers hiding in plain sight to predators operating inside homes
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: and college campuses. Elizabeth has made a career out of
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: staring directly at the worst of humanity and asking us
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: to do the same. These stories aren't just shocking, they're cautionary,
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: and once you hear how close they come to real life,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: you might never swipe trust or look away the same
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: way again. Okay, before we jump into this interview with Elizabeth,
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I just need to really break this down a little
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: bit with one of my producers, So Chrissy, let's break
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: this down, because to be clear, this man's crimes are
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: just absolutely outrageous. And we need to remember that these
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: movies are made for entertainment, so sometimes they don't really
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: get as kind of.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: It the minutia into the minutia of the crime. So
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: let's just like talk.
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: A little bit about it.
• 1:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean this movie actually doing the research, which
• 1:51
  Speaker 6: we've both read a bunch of bothers. Yes, doing the
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: research on the crime. The movie does follow pretty close
• 1:56
  Speaker 6: to a lot of.
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: The stuff very much so, Yes, very much so.
• 2:00
  Speaker 6: And it is because of those articles and the crime
• 2:03
  Speaker 6: stories that this movie was made, right, That's why they
• 2:06
  Speaker 6: followed it right, right, But we are talking about a
• 2:09
  Speaker 6: man who was killing women and putting them in shopping
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: carts at the base of this crime, at.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: The base of this crime, and also what he would do.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: One of the ways that they proved that this man
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: was guilty is that after each of these women was murdered,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: they found in his phone or his computer that he
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: watched explicit videos of women that looked exactly like who
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: he had just murdered.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Which is another level of psychological like.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, so you could say, okay, is this insanity? Is
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: this you know, deep psychological problems? Yes, but it's also
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: weirdly you know, scientific and sort of it's just so crazy.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: And then also as much as like Monica White, thank
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: God for her, you know that her internal intuition that
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: eventually said.
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: I got to get away from this guy.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: But there are a few things where I think, hold on, okay, Well, first.
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: Of all, we need to we need to mention this
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: all all happens over dating apps.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: That's how he meets these women.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Right, yes, yes, so, And it's important to remember that,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: which they do show very well in this movie, that
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: we never know what the other person is doing at
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: the time that they are communicating with us. Right, you
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: can't see them. It's on an app, you're typing into something.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: So before they you know, have a video chat or
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: anything like that, they're just communicating. So she has no
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: idea what this man is actually doing. But when she
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: finally meets him, he gets off the bus and immediately
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: is like, can I move.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: In with you? And I don't have any money.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Now, that to me would be like an enormous red flag,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: which I think in retrospect, she did say she felt
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: it was, but that and then he when he slept
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: in her bed, he like peede in her bed, and
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: then she'd still let him stay like there are all
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: these things that and of course they're not going to
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: put this in the movie because nobody wants to see that, right,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: nobody wants to see that. But it's it's just like
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: the details of this crime are so bizarre and so
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: disturbing that I just.
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: It sounds like he had a pattern, right, because if
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: you read all the artist, read all the things he
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: gets accused of, basically he's at the end of the day,
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: they think there were six murders that he was a
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: part of, although they were only able to really prove
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: what looks like three.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I think he's either he's going on trial again this
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: spring or he's being sentenced this spring.
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: Yes, so it's not over. This is not over.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: But he had a pattern, right.
• 5:08
  Speaker 6: He got on the dating apps, he goes through, he
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: finds somebody that he finds attractive or interesting, and it.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Is very effusive to them. You're so beautiful, I'd love
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: to get to know you.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: Same stuff, every same stuff. Yep.
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: And then because of his own trauma, let's say what
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: we find out in the film, and then through these
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: articles on trial, through his own trauma, with children, with
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: like exes and everything. He basically is looking for someone
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: to accept him right right, yes, And then he goes
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: to meet these women and if they don't accept him
• 5:43
  Speaker 6: right away, it's.
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: Like it's like you're a goner.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: So he actually says to her that's the other thing,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: huge red flag. The second he gets off the bus,
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: he says, don't reject me. I don't like it when
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: women reject me, so give me a chance. That's like,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: that's a whole ball of axe. That's like I would
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: feel as though I, you know, in my past have
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: liked to fix men. But that's like a big fix
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: that I cannot you know, It's it's insane. And also
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: they think, so he speaks about and they speak They
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: talk about this in the film as well, that he
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: had an ex whose name is Sky and that she
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: died and he's clearly very affected by that. But the
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: truth is also they think he may have killed her.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: That is an unsolved situation. The mom came in and
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: found her in the room that they shared and she
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: was not breathing, so they don't he might have murdered
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: her as well.
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think the thing here is that,
• 6:50
  Speaker 6: like the psychological of it is all is because it
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: was so repetitive, right, The things he was saying was repetitive,
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: the actions were repetitive. The fact that Monica White was
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: able to stay alive because she was sincere in the
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: way that she felt for him, that he had like
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: an emotional connection to her, so like it wasn't like
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: these other women who either rejected him or just were,
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: for lack of a better word, little sluts. Like so
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: we're like, you know what I'm saying, Like he didn't
• 7:21
  Speaker 6: have like an emotional connection. It was kind of just
• 7:24
  Speaker 6: about like the getting the satisfaction that getting that person
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: to meet him, the getting to make out with them,
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: and like all that stuff. This woman survived because she
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: had a connection with him which went through a longer
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: psychological process with him in the crime situation of it.
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: And then in the movie they really portrayed that he
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: gets caught like right away after he loses his stuff
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: on her and then but it.
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: Really but it's actually almost a year, right.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was months, and it was like she he
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: reached out to her more before she knew and then
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: one day off and was like, hey, guess what that
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: guy you invited to your birthday.
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: Party, serial killer, and you got off because, right, you
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: basically emotionally connected with this person.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: That is such an important point and you know, really
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: speaks to how this is about being isolated and being
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: so emotionally empty and desperate for connection, and how how
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: that can turn so deeply awry, you know, so go
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: so awry and so many of these these these crimes
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: that we talk about, that's really at the core of
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: it is like a deep, deep loneliness.
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, these people will be portrayed as monsters, right, but
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: it is a lot of psychological trauma that goes into it.
• 8:49
  Speaker 6: And whether or not he is actually making a phone
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: call to a girl that is emotionally supporting him while
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: he's standing over a dead body, right, he's like the
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: compartment mentalizing.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that could be.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: For you know, dramatic, you know effect, but the point
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: is there. So I cannot wait to chat with Elizabeth.
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: All of these movies that she has made.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: She has done a beautiful job at really portraying these
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: people as full human beings, and particularly the victims and
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: the women, which is not always the case. Sometimes that
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: gets sensationalized and it's all about the predator.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: So I really.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Appreciate how the depth and the nuance that she has
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: put into these movies.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: And she casted them to look exactly like that.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: I know, it's super freaky.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Super crazy.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: All right, let's get into it.
• 9:54
  Speaker 7: Yes, yes, Elizabeth, welcome to Killer Thriller, Think Killer Thriller.
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: I mean that sounds like the best place best.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: That's nice to be.
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: Like right in your I can't believe it's.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Taking us this long to meet.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I know, Okay, so thank you for being here and
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: for being here in person, Like I said it really,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: it's just it's nice to actually be in a room
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: with another human and have these conversations.
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: So thank you.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more.
• 10:25
  Speaker 8: So let's just start in the general. These stories are.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: They're brutal, They're like, honestly, I was thinking like since
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I started doing this podcast, like gosh, I sleeping is
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: a little bit different these days, like how how do
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: you sleep when you're shooting?
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: Like how do you actually like does it impact your sleep?
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: I guess is the question?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: You know. I think I do have darker thoughts, you know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: having now gone so much into this true crime space,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: meaning like I find myself thinking, oh, well, that's definitely possible,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: or that human being can do that, or you have
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: no idea when you hear a story on the news.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: And you're like no way, and you're like, yeah way.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: There is a dark side, of course, and I'm now
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: very tapped into it.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: But coming from the years of law and order and
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: being a true crime un side have already. Yeah, I've
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: always been interested in a human stories.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Nothing is more dramatic than real life, and nothing is
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: more dramatic than nonfiction and crime and really getting into justice.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: That's always been my thing.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And then of course I think as an actor's director,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I'm very drawn to drama and big performances, and I
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: think these true crime stories generally have a call to
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: action as well. So but it is a tender thing
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: dealing with these victims, and it definitely brings some dark
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: thoughts because of course it's it's unimaginable some of these stories.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but like you said, it's like it's unimaginable, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: then you see, this is what really fascinates me, and
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I think why a lot of people are so embedded
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: in it, because to me, I feel like this is
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: all about the human condition and what we are capable
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: of and sometimes it's either just circumstances or the combination
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: of circumstances and survival and what you've been through and
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: what trauma you've had, like all of those things come
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: together to create these horrific situations.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And that's a really real reason why I love partnering
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: with Lifetime, because not only are they making a ton
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: of movies as a studio slash network. I mean, they're
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: incredibly productive when a lot of people are, but in
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: my bucket of doing the true crime movies, I've really
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: found every single one that there's been a call to action,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: either at the end of the movie there's a lot
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: of thattline, or there's been a documentary piece at the end,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't feel irresponsible or gratuitous to tell these stories.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I find Lifetime as a partner to be very highly
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: conscious these are commercial projects. Of course, people definitely come
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: for the thrill, but they are also I think lit
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: up by other human voices that might reflect back to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: them what they're experiencing. So we've experienced people reaching out
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: saying thank you for telling this story.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I needed this story.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: In order to give me a voice, or to encourage
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: me to leave a bad situation. Or to get out
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: or to give a language to a family member like
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing behavior and now I understand what this could
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: possibly mean. But again, a lot of these movies, and
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I think trauma in general, it can be generational, it
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: can be historical in the family, and I think telling
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: these true crime stories has a purpose beyond just the
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: drama of it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I think that when we tell these stories, hopefully it
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: helps people heal.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because yes, yes, that must be incredibly rewarding. Then,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's what I think we all want. You know,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: I was just talking about this earlier that as actors
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: were somewhat limited sometimes where you know, sometimes you get
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: the paycheck for what isn't as fulfilling and vice versa,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: and it's I just think it's thest I agree with
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: you about these stories. And I want to say, for
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: anybody who hasn't watched any of the ones we're going
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: to talk about, you're a marvelous director. You're a terrific director,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: not only an actor's director, but also it's really they're
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: really well shot, these movies, they're well created, and it's
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: not you can really feel the kind of like the
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: real weight to them. They without being sensationalized, and I
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: think that's not an easy thing to do.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: So thanks, and I will give props also to my
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: producing partner, Kara Pfiffer and our production company Rome five
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: for entertainment. Because we are women, I think we are
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: sensitive and because you know we're we are women with
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: style and we have I think good taste and not
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: only material, but artists, fellow artists. We really want these
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: movies to stand out to see premium, even if they
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: have a couple million dollars budget, that they feel like
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: they're way more funded than that, and that they do.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: They're really that they're premium and that they feel special
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and important.
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: I well they do.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: So the first one we're going to talk about today
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: is it's about the shopping cart Killer. The name of
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: the movie is The Dating App Killer, the Monica White Story.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: So this story, I mean, all of these are just
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: super disturbing and unreal, but this one starts with something
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: that millions of people use, a dating app. And you know,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: as a person who I got married before that was
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: even a thing, so it's sort of somewhat terrifying to me,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: but it's so normal. Everyone does this, and so do
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: you think that's what makes this so scary.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I first of all, I think that the marketing on
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Lifetimes part is brilliant. I'm not sure if I was single,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: i'd ever go on a dating app. Ever, again, I'm
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: a teenager who's now like, you know, eighteen, and is
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: on a dating app. And he's like, stop with your
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: catastrophe stories.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, be there, make sure they come to the house.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: You're not meeting anybody anywhere where there's some supervision or
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: at least that you've got an air tag on you.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about? But and I do think
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: that the dating apps are great. I think it's an
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: incredible way to kind of cut to the chase and
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: like cut through the sort of kind of red tape
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: of dating, just to be clear, like what your intentions are,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: who you are. So I don't I'm not trying to
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: drive people away from dating apps, but it's unbelievable.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: That this actually happened.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: And loneliness is an epidemic, and I think our need
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: to be loved and seen and heard and have somebody
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: to interact with is deep for all of us. So,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I think that it's understandable how it happened,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: And I think it's a beautiful story because Monica White
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: really didn't end up getting victimized. She really listened to
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: her spoiler alert, but yeah, yep, she ended up listening
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: to her instincts.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Well, you know this, he did not look like a monster,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: this man, and I think one of the most effective.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: There are a couple of scenes where this happened happens,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: where you cut from between the character of Anthony typing
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: to her and always, you know, speaking in like you're beautiful,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I'd love to see you. You're like my heart's desire,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: all this sort of stuff, and you see where he
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: is in a one case, he just killed someone, and
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: then juxtaposed with Monica, who is sitting, you know, with
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: a glass of wine in her living room kind of
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: like chatting with this person and this idea that we
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: really don't know what's on the other side, and it's
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: you know, something you have to think about.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Welcome to Valentine's Day.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: You're gonna see Valentine's Day in a very different way
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: after the dating I've killing.
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: So I love that this is released on Valentine's Day?
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Is that right? Yeah?
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: Brilliant genius brilliant.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, fourteen tune into lifetime.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: So did it stand out to you that he and
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: the actual crime? You know, it's I feel like in
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: retrospect people could say, oh, of course, And I think
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Monica does right.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: She real or she realized right away.
• 18:01
  Speaker 8: She sort of had the feeling right away there was
• 18:03
  Speaker 8: something up with him.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I think that's her perspective, is that there were some
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: red flags. But again, I think she overlooked them. I
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: think she wanted to have intimacy and then a very
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: big event happened. It's a little different in the movie
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: how we portrayed it, but the event itself was something
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that really made her. The red flags were screaming, and
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: she ended up saving herself because of them. So I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: don't want to give too much away, because it really
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: does take you on a ride, and I think it
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: is thrilling and scary, the unknown of all of that.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: But she saw behavior and.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: She listened to her inner voice, and I think that's
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: really a big takeaway in this movie. As opposed to
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: the call to action sometimes in other true crime projects,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: this is actually a hero's journey. She listened to herself,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: She got out of a bad situation. She saved her
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: life and she lives to tell it.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: You know, he's portrayed in the movie and in life.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: When you see pictures like, he doesn't look like some
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: sort of monster. He's quite handsome, charming, and you know,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: that reserved sort of quality that I think as women,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: we you know, we look for or we interpret as safe.
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: I should say, yeah, not.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: To glorify a monster, that's not my agenda with these movies,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: but to understand the damage and the psychological implications that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: make a monster. It's I wanted to humanize him to
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: a degree that made it possible for us as an
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: audience to think generational trauma, generational abuse un you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: sort of dealt with and not taken care of, you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: or at least professionally with some support, can turn into
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: tremendous violence, degradation and you know, and despair, you know,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: and violence. So you know, that's a big part of
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: why when you're talking about somebody that is a killer,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: criminal or something like that, to understand their psychology and
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: their backstory so that the actor can portray them.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And I hope then when the audience.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Sees that character, they go, you know what, I have
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: some things I need that are unresolved or whatever that
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: and then also you know the potential victim really understanding
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: their perspective, so humanizing and stories.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, did you feel any pressure to stay super
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: close to.
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: The facts of the story.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously the emotional truth, but to the real
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: facts of the story, like did you meet Monica?
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: Where did the script come from?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we were aware.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Karen and I had read an article on People magazine
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: about the shopping car killer dubbed Anthony Robinson, dubbed the
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: shopping car Killer, and we thought, you know what, maybe
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: there's something here.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: We watched the trial.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: We want we waited for the trial, and then as
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: the trial unfolded, it was resolved very quickly. He was
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: found guilty of several murders. He speculated others. But we
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: as you know, a legal team, you know, a lifetime
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: and you know, we can only tell the truth and
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: the only we can only tell the things that actually
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: have been proven. So there were a couple of women
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: that were you know, he was found guilty of hurting
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and those are the women that are portrayed. And Monica,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: then we reached out to her because we wanted to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: tell the perspective from this more this positive point of
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: view of this hero's journey, and we talked to her
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and again, you know, as producers reaching out to a victim,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: we take it very seriously.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: It's not a joke.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: They've been from, you know, through hell and back, and
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: we want them to trust us and know that we're
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: going to portray with so much integrity that they can
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: feel safe that their story is safe. So we spend
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: some time with her that we've brought in a screenwriter,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: and when we decided to, as you said, do this
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: kind of as a dual track, so you're in both
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: worlds at the same time. It kind of, I think
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: amps up the drama.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: It does, but it also humanizes him and I mean
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: both of them really, but him as well.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a bit of a grifter and it's good
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: to see that element, I think, because she actually does
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: see what's good in him too, and that makes it
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: particularly complicated, right.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Which can explain you know, sometimes when we look at
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: these things from the outside and we say, oh, I
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: would never do that, you know, I would never like
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: of course, I mean, he seems like such and such.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: But the reality is is when we're in these situations.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: They're very nuanced, and it's very complex and depending upon
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: how lonely we are, or what we're feeling, or what
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: we need, you know, it's just simply not that simple.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think that's why a lot of victims
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: tend to keep quiet. They're so ashamed of how they
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: got into a situation in the first place, that they
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: silence themselves as opposed to having empathy and compassion for
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: themselves and some self awareness as to you know, how
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: they were either love bombed or manipulated, or what's inside
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: of them that needs love so much.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It's interesting.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't really think about this until now, but my
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: producing partner is a clinician, and I think also as
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: former actresses, we really do come at material from a
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: psychological point of view, and maybe that's part of why
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: the films feel more real and less sensationalized.
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they truly do.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: And speaking to that, how do you avoid turning the
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: killer into the most interesting character in the films? Because
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: you know, I personally feel as though, and I feel
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: like there's something that people are talking about now that
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: any of these crimes, there's always a sort of how
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: it gets sensationalized is We're always concerned with, you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: the killer and the killer and the and we sort
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: of leave the victim behind in some way. And so
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: that is not the way any of these movies feel.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: And so how do you avoid doing that, like making
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: him the most interesting?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I think the best way to do that from a
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: prudosorial point of view as well as as a director,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: is to make it the Monica White story. So it's
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the dating app killer, the Monica White story, and we're
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: not celebrating him and we are we are not positioning
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: him to become the most thrilling you know.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Sexy monster.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: It's really her story and we really built out her character,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: her world, and you'll see that when you see the film,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: or you've seen the film, but when others see it,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: because there is a great friend, and there's this, there's
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: familial relationships, and there's all that stuff in her life.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: So it's really her story.
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: Was there a scene that stuck with you long after
• 24:54
  Speaker 8: you shot it?
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: I think the one where she has a nightmare. I
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: won't give it away.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: We struggled with this scene and I was like.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: What what say what?
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: When I was watching this, I'm like this, Oh god,
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: Oh no, is this.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: What exactly I struggled.
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: It's a army struggled with.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: It because we were like, let's stay in the moment
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: and let's not do that dream And we were all
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: so pleasantly surprised how the dream scene shot and then
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: how it edited into the film and we thought, oh
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: wow that really worked.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it definitely, it definitely does. What
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: do you hope that women who watch this take away
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: from it?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: It's like you said, you know, happy Valentine's Day, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: also you may be on a dating app and that's okay,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Perhaps just really listen to your Spidey senses, like trust yourself,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: trust your gut. You know, I'm not interested in, you know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: creating stories of fear, creating fear, but I think it's hopefully,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: hopefully it's an inspiring story for women and when they
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: think of themselves is empowered and that they have an
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: inner voice, then they have to honor that inner.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Voice, right right, That is particularly in dating particularly, Well
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: that's what.
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: I thought was interesting too.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: You know, there are moments where he goes on other
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: dates and one in particular, and it's very uh to me.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: I went, oh, this is why this woman won't be
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: a victim. And it's similar to Monica, but this care
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, I won't give too much away either, but
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: you have there's a moment where you think, oh my god,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: this girl is he's gonna he's gonna like he's gonna
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: kill her because she has got her own opinion. And
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: then you understand this is not like this is not
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: just a flagrant murderer. This man it is very specific
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: to his experiences in his life and certainly probably generational
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: trauma and all of those things.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So it's like a.
• 26:51
  Speaker 8: Much more it's a much deeper, more complex.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would just say Jared Joseph, he's so good. Really,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: uh you know, we went very very deep, you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: sort of playing with the idea of like how did
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Anthony Robinson become Anthony Robinson? Right, And so there are
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of underpinnings that are very particular to the
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: work that Jared did. And without giving anything away, I'll
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: just say that the idea that this person like belonged nowhere,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: belonged to nobody, and that's why Monica gets to him, Yeah,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: because she's so loving and so whatever. It's the perfect storm.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: And Leila Brashaan did such an incredible job. Her heart is,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: she's such a sweet soul and such a loving person,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: and her vulnerability and her willingness and her bravery even
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: in that scene, the dream scene. You know, I really
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I admire her so much. It was so much fun
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: working with her.
• 27:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah, she was terrific. How did you turn to directing?
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: In general?
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Like everybody thinks, oh, you know, you've acted forever. Why
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: wouldn't you just keep doing that?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: You know, it's actually a Lifetime story because they had
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: a program at the time called the Broader Focus Program,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: and I'd heard about it from other actresses. Kara Sedgwick,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Angela Bassett had participated done their first movies essentially with them,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: and so that was a really an actionable item and
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: actionable plan that Lifetime was doing putting actresses behind the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: camera to see how that experience might be. Of course,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: if you wanted to have that experience, and I did,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I wanted to direct. I reached out to the then
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: head of Lifetime. She made it possible for me to
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: direct a film during COVID.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I did it with a.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Producer that had directed me before, So I had a
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: measure of confidence that, Okay, I if I was confused
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: or scared or whatever that i'd be supported, but the
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: opposite happened, and it was like a fire was lit
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: inside of me, and I thought, oh wow, I've always
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: been interested in human stories and narrative, obviously being an actor,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: but I really love seeing it from the three hundred
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and sixty degree view, and I love actors, so I
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: really fell into the directing. I then that movie did well,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Girl in the Basement, and then I went going to
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: talk about that, and then I went on and did
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: another one that did well too, and by then I
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: was like, this is my career move. I'm moving and
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: in doing that, then I decided I wanted to develop more,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and I then began a company with a friend of mine,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Kara Pfeiffer, who brought a project to me, and then
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: we started developing, and then we started it formally.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: That two years ago.
• 29:48
  Speaker 8: Is like the dream, you know, I think that's amazing.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's like the Monica White story. You just have
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: to listen to your instincts.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: At that time, I think, you know, having done to
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: a cat me nominated movies back to back, it did
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: seem like a weird choice to like step away from
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the acting. But I really just went with my happiness
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: and the door of yes opened and I thought, you
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: know what, this is what I'd like to be doing
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: for the next thirty years, right.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, it certainly seems to me directing must utilize
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: a lot, like all the parts of your brain, of
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: your creativity, of your expertise. So I would imagine that
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: it's like a really much fuller creative experience.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I miss sometimes the heart, you know, of
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: the acting, meaning just the simple quiet kind of connecting
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: with another human being in a scene. I miss that,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: and I love that, and maybe I will act again.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I just this is my seventh movie. I'm about to
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: leave and do my eighth movie for lifetime, and I'm
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: just really fulfilled. And I think, being a woman of
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: a certain age, it's nice to focus on others and
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I don't need the attention on myself. So I'm really
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: enjoying helping actors find great performances and putting the whole
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: thing together at a phenomenal producing partner, So I love
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: going to work with her every day. Beyond that, maybe
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I'll go back to the acting, but I definitely think
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the directing is challenging. And it's challenging because you're responsible
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: for so many people, and that is very fulfilling, probably
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: much more complex in its fulfillment than just the acting.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: The acting is a singular sport in a sense.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Right, you can also like show up in your sweats
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: and stay in your sweats as a director.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and I can go and you do this and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: you feel.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Sounds very I don't have to do her on megap
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: or worry about any anything.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: This story is a reminder of how easily danger can
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: hide in everyday places.
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: But we are not done.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: When we come back, we're digging into two more true
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: stories Elizabeth brought to life, abuse control and manipulation, hiding
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: in places that we're supposed to be safe. So come
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: back to our next episode where I continue my conversation
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: with Elizabeth