Latest / Citizen Frame / Xmas Month: 12 Monkeys (1995)

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Xmas Month: 12 Monkeys (1995) · Citizen Frame

0:12
Five billion people died in 1996 and 1997. That's the entire population of the world.
0:19
Only about 1% of us survived. Are you going to save us, Mr. Cole?
0:23
How can I save you? This already happened. I can't save you. Nobody can.
0:28
I am simply trying to gather information to help the people in the present trace the path of the virus.
0:35
We're not in the present now, Mr. Cole? No.
0:39
1990 is the past. This already happened. that's what I'm trying to do. Mr. Cole, Mr.
0:45
Cole, you believe 1996 is the present then? Is that it?
0:49
No, 1996 is the past too. Listen to me.
0:52
What I need to do is make a telephone call.
1:22
People we're back in this time it's christmas month or
1:25
about a week late but i don't give a shit ho ho christmas month christmas
1:29
month now the first one we're gonna kick the
1:32
first one we're gonna kick off with i actually don't
1:35
know why i chose it as a christmas movie but i kind of figured out as i was
1:38
watching it okay so there's snow that's that's one thing right there that's
1:43
a big you know tell sign but also i'm really stretching it here with this one
1:48
there's a sequence where James Cole, the Bruce Willis character,
1:53
is, well, not volunteering, but made to volunteer to go outside to take samples of animals and shit.
2:00
And so he's got to put this protective gear on, right? And it's like clear,
2:04
but it's got lights and stuff. He kind of looks like a Christmas ornament.
2:08
So, there you go. It's also set at Christmas. That's the big one. It's set late December.
2:16
Again, we did pick Fargo. Yeah. We did do Fargo last year
2:19
because it had snow well i know i know but at
2:22
least this has like sort of angels in a
2:25
shopping center type thing at department
2:29
store and also you know not really angels obviously you know and there's also
2:35
i am whenever catherine reilly the madeline stoke character phones up the future
2:40
people she says have a nice christmas or have a great christmas or words to
2:45
that effect So we're pushing it, but we're definitely there.
2:50
Well, we haven't talked Bruce Willis in a while. God love him.
2:52
Yeah. What he's going through right now. So, you know, got to talk Bruce.
2:56
We talk Arnie all the time.
2:58
Where do we go here? Okay. So, yeah, we got Terry Gilliam at the helm here.
3:03
Terry Gilliam peaked with this one. His rest of his stuff's kind of faded.
3:08
I don't think his stuff transitions well.
3:10
The quirkiness kind of humor he puts in his stuff, I just don't think holds up anymore.
3:15
It's not mainstream. stream uh how yeah but but again but there's big budget
3:20
behind this stuff and they're not going to pay all this money for something
3:23
that's just not going to sell yeah an art house full basically.
3:27
Yeah but you gotta back it up with with you know profit especially with the
3:34
way the industry's going now but anyways that's not to take away from terry
3:38
gilliam terry gilliam we all know for Mighty a Python theme,
3:41
but I know him as the director for movies like Time Bandits in Brazil and the
3:48
incredibly underrated Fisher King.
3:50
The Fisher King is his best film.
3:53
If you guys haven't seen it, he got the Oscar for Mercedes Rule.
3:57
It is by far Robin Williams' best performance.
4:00
He was nominated, Jeff Bridges, great cast. It's really dark and depressing, but by far his best film.
4:08
He also directed one called, I believe it was him directed it,
4:12
The Adventures of Baron Munchazen.
4:16
Yeah, Williams was in that one too, I believe. Enjoyable, I remember.
4:19
I haven't seen it since I was a kid, but I remember liking it.
4:23
He switched gears. He did a lot of fantasy stuff, and that was huge.
4:28
We kind of talked about some of the fantasy elements that were going,
4:32
genres that is going through the 80s, fantasy sci-fi or fantasy in general,
4:37
and that's where Terry Gilliam hit his high point because that's kind of what he was going for.
4:44
But once the 90s, things changed, so it's worked.
4:48
And he changed. He ended up doing his two best works, which I mentioned earlier,
4:52
Fisher King, and obviously The Twelve Monkeys.
4:55
Now I saw The Twelve Monkeys in the theater. I was working on Planet Hollywood at the time.
5:01
And this is the part, this was the couple years between 94 and 96,
5:08
Bruce Willis would change gears.
5:10
He wanted to do something a little more dramatic, a little more serious,
5:13
obviously starting with Pulp Fiction and then doing Twelve Monkeys.
5:17
Then he'd do Quirky. I know it's an action film, but it's very more quirky sci-fi,
5:21
almost like a Terry Gilliam film, which would be Luke Cassone's Fifth Element. Yes.
5:26
Then he'd do, obviously, The Sixth Sense and so forth.
5:30
So he was trying to branch out, I guess you can say. And every time Bruce Willis
5:34
did branch out, it worked.
5:35
Yeah, I mean, he's had an amazing career. And he has, you know,
5:39
done different things in different roles.
5:42
I actually think this is one of his best. Yeah.
5:45
It's one of his best performances. I watched it again. I don't think it holds up for me.
5:50
And it's because of Brad Pitt. Okay. And not necessarily, he is a scene stealer. Don't keep me wrong.
5:56
He's definitely the bowl of energy that this film needs.
6:00
But I don't get the character. And we'll dive a little more into that.
6:04
The character is basically a red herring.
6:07
Well, yeah, but Knox is red. We'll dig a little deeper into it.
6:13
All right. So this is critically acclaimed. Did well all across the board.
6:18
It is a post-apocalyptic science fiction thriller starring Bruce Willis,
6:23
Madeline Still and Brad Pitt.
6:24
It's a loose adaptation of a short film, Chris Marker's 1962 film, Le Jeté.
6:33
I've seen it. Or Jeté. Oh, you did? Is there anything like it?
6:37
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's basically the same plot, but condensed.
6:41
And this is like an expanded version of it. But the quirky thing is about the
6:45
short film is that it is told completely in still pictures, photographs with a narrator.
6:51
So there's no moving pictures. There's just these photos, different photos.
6:55
And it's basically telling this story, but obviously a condensed version of
7:00
this story. It's very good. Very arthouse.
7:02
That's why I said earlier on that arguably this is an arthouse film,
7:06
although it's big budget.
7:07
But it's not even so much arthouse, but more experimental.
7:12
If you know what I mean but it's essentially the same plot the same story okay.
7:18
All right, let's jump into it. We got Bruce Willis. He plays James Cole.
7:22
He's a convict from the future.
7:24
And he's set back a time to investigate the virus. Yes.
7:28
We got Madeline Stowe, who plays Dr.
7:31
Catherine Raley, a shrink, who, by the way, is nothing against Madeline Stowe.
7:36
I'm sure she's a lovely person. I believe she's retired now. Thank Christ.
7:40
Every movie she's in, she has this drab performance.
7:44
She did it with stakeout films. she did it with this one she did it with Lashley
7:50
Mohicans and she did it with one of my favorites Unlawful Entry but that was
7:55
because of Kurt Russell now she's the same character very drab and bland,
8:02
and you needed somebody else you needed a little.
8:07
More personality here I know what you're saying but she's actually
8:10
perfect for this role of the sort of
8:13
stuffy sort of pompous psychiatrist well I mean she changes she has a journey
8:18
you know and she becomes she comes to believe in you know old James Cole Brucey
8:24
but you know for the first half she actually suits very well the role of this
8:30
sort of know-it-all pompous psychiatrist.
8:33
She's just very one note. Is it right? So yes it's very monotone very soft spoken
8:40
and the problem I have with that is if you're doing a journey like this character
8:44
I'll give you the first half, she's snooty, blah, blah, blah.
8:48
But the second act, she gets a little more charismatic, but you can't really
8:52
tell that with her performance. And that's the problem I have with Madeline still.
8:56
Not animated enough, you know, well, I mean, it is, but it's just not,
9:00
there's, there's a lack of oomph, you know.
9:03
Well, the flip side of that coin, Brad Pitt. He plays Jeffrey Goins.
9:08
He's the manic, the eccentric patient in the mental institution.
9:11
He got the Golden Globe for his performance, and he should have.
9:15
Christopher Plummer plays the father, Leland Goins. I love Christopher Plummer.
9:19
I like seeing anything he does.
9:21
And David Morris is Dr. Peters.
9:24
Now, I didn't catch it at first, but now seeing David Morris in a lot more films,
9:29
the red herring doesn't really work because David Morris has
9:32
too much of a small part in this so i should have caught on
9:35
that wait a minute what why are we
9:38
having him just peppered in here and there maybe like a
9:41
minute scene you knew he had a bigger yeah bigger part to play yeah doing something
9:45
a bit more like destroying the entire world you know uh that i did when i first
9:52
watched this years ago when it was first released in video i didn't catch it
9:56
at first about him but what I did think was pretty obvious.
10:00
I remember, I think anyway, at the time was that, um, Bruce Willis,
10:05
his dream was going to be basically a vision of his own death, essentially.
10:09
Oh yeah. I knew that. I, that twist I caught. Yes. I caught the fact that he
10:15
doesn't die in this film.
10:18
Everybody thinks, Oh, Bruce dies. Well, he doesn't because it's himself seeing himself get shot.
10:23
Young Bruce doesn't die. Yes. It's young Bruce was technically Bruce was doesn't die.
10:27
Yeah. So, people are like, oh, this is kind of depressing. I go,
10:31
no, it's technically not.
10:33
He survives. He survives the apocalypse.
10:37
Yeah, he stops it. In a way, yeah.
10:41
So he doesn't die. Well, I mean, he doesn't get shot dead.
10:46
But the kid's still there. Yes, I know that. It's a loop. It's a time loop.
10:51
It's all meant to happen. But he won't. It never happened. He'll forget that
10:55
he existed, that version of him. Yes.
10:59
But he doesn't die. Yeah, but young Bruce Willis doesn't know that it's his future self.
11:07
Oh, I know. Yes. Yeah. This Bruce Willis that we know and enjoy watching,
11:12
does that persona of his character, James Cole, does die. Yeah.
11:17
Yeah. And I would say as well that everything in this film, it's actually really,
11:21
really solidly written in terms of the time travel aspects.
11:25
It's all a tight loop. And they think that even the future dudes,
11:31
the future scientist dudes,
11:32
say that we can't actually change the past, but
11:35
we want to learn from it and find a cure for the virus and they
11:39
don't stop it even though that's what james cole and dr reilly are trying to
11:45
do but but it's a closed loop they cannot change anything and to be fair the
11:51
future dudes know this and in fact that's confirmed it with the very sort of
11:55
one of the final scenes well you're you're kind of diving a little further,
11:59
it's all relevant yeah yeah i know but you're diving toward the end there and
12:03
And we'll get to that in a moment when I have some questions. Okay.
12:09
Yeah, so 5 billion dead, 1997.
12:12
And animals rule the planet. The movie is really, does really hammer in,
12:17
and rightfully so, anti-animal testing. Yeah.
12:21
It's in every scene practically. And the 12 monkeys are clearly these rebels
12:26
who we're set to believe are the cause of this virus. But there's a misdirection there.
12:33
But we'll dig a little deeper. So listen...
12:36
Bruce is in prison. At first, I thought that was just a lifestyle.
12:39
When they say that the humans, the survivors left the surface,
12:46
that means they're underground. Yes.
12:48
And Bruce is a prisoner, technically, but he's not.
12:51
There's a line that his buddy says where he goes, I can't believe you're so
12:59
lucky you're volunteering because volunteers get, you know,
13:02
they get compliments and they get gifts and they get, you know,
13:05
stuff were going up on the surface to do these tests, you know,
13:08
to grab cockroaches or whatever they're doing. Yes.
13:11
And, but he says, I didn't volunteer.
13:15
Are they plucking? Yeah, he was plucked basically because he's good at remembering
13:19
things. He's a violent criminal.
13:21
I don't think it's actually stated what exactly he did, but it sort of suggested it might be murder.
13:27
But he's basically, and although everyone lives underground,
13:31
he is basically imprisoned.
13:33
By the way, he's one of the criminals, essentially.
13:36
And he is picked by the end because he's really good at remembering things.
13:40
So he didn't volunteer. Well, it's because every time he goes out, it's what he grabs. Yes.
13:46
And what he sees. So he has a good knack for detective work, I guess you could say.
13:51
Yeah, he's good at remembering dates and stuff that's happened and all the rest.
13:55
And he states it himself. They picked him because he's good at remembering things.
13:59
So if he was to be sent back in time he would get information and remember it
14:05
because whenever they go back in time it's only them that goes back they can't
14:10
bring anything back to the future with them.
14:13
The one thing Taylor Gilliam does is, does it well, even Fisher King,
14:16
even all set in current New York time, you know, New York 1990s,
14:20
he always picks these dark settings and he's really into, it's almost got a
14:26
dark city feel like a steampunk. Steampunk.
14:28
Yeah. I was just going to say that. Brazil's the same. And yeah,
14:30
and I like the Steampunk element because of the fact that because they have
14:34
to rebuild their technology or take what technology they have left to rebuild
14:39
underneath the surface,
14:40
everything looks so sloppy and is put together. Yeah. But it all has its.
14:46
Yeah, Steampunk is basically the merging of future technology with Victorian
14:52
technology, essentially.
14:54
Yeah. And it's always used any kind of post-apocalyptic crap. Yeah.
14:59
All right, so he bounces back. He's in 1990, and now he's lost the plot.
15:03
Well, he hasn't really. And he's in this asylum. We don't see it because he
15:07
beat the shit out of two cops because he has a temper. Yeah.
15:10
And that's where we meet our boy Jeffrey. Yep.
15:13
Now he's a scene stealer, but it gets old real quick.
15:17
I do love that we get to see the Riddler.
15:21
The Riddler, he's the head of the shrink ward. Yes.
15:25
Frank Gershwin. Yes. Gershwin. Yeah. I actually find his character quite annoying
15:30
you know whenever he plays with his mouth with a pen and stuff when he's talking
15:34
to Catherine Riley and stuff I like that,
15:40
I like that character arc, not character arc, that character tweak he has for him because.
15:47
Every time she opens his mouth he'd do something like that and it's pretty much
15:51
he's being condescending to her Oh absolutely, he plays the role very well,
15:54
the character is meant to be an annoying dick and trust me yes you know so kudos.
16:03
So, here we go. Here's where we start. I'm not really going to break down the
16:06
scenes. We're just going to kind of jump into this.
16:09
All right. So, he's in 1990. He meets Jeffrey.
16:14
And James makes this thing on TV. And it's about animal testing.
16:18
We see monkeys. Yes. That's where we find out.
16:22
James makes one little comment, just like we would all make.
16:25
We're the real animals. We should be exterminated. Because of what this TV is
16:29
showing of the abuse of animals. Yeah, we deserve it. type thing.
16:33
He makes this one comment, and this is what triggers the 12 Monkeys.
16:38
And Jeffrey takes that to heart, and this is where Jeffrey becomes the founder
16:43
of the 12 Monkeys, who we think is the culprit of this virus, but it actually isn't.
16:48
And actually, later on, whenever Bruce Willis comes back again, he's blaming himself.
16:54
It's my fault. I've doomed the whole planet. I basically give Jeffrey that idea,
16:59
although we'll find out later on that it's not the case.
17:02
Let me ask you, this is a scene where, when he still, he's in 1990,
17:07
and he finds out he's in the wrong year when he makes the phone call. Yeah.
17:12
And he's supposed to be in 1996.
17:15
So, there's a scene where Jeffrey's going to try to get him out.
17:19
Yes. And Jeffrey acts like a goofy guy like he is.
17:24
And as Bruce is trying to escape...
17:27
We see this guard and he's walking away and he's going to use the key to get
17:35
in this door and the guard lets him do it, but the guard changes his face.
17:40
Terry Gilliam does this a lot, especially with films like this where he deliberately
17:44
puts things in to confuse people.
17:47
Also, you know, obviously you could write it off by saying that the guards think
17:52
that he is a patient who has access to these corridor doors or whatever,
17:56
but they're no he changes the guard looks like a different person for a second oh you mean,
18:02
there's different guards I just put that down to no there's one guard sitting
18:05
down that's reading the paper yes he's reading the weekly world news yeah yes
18:09
but I think I figured it out,
18:11
why he changed his faces. I'm so clever, everyone.
18:15
Now you're all going to find out why the guards, you're going to find out probably
18:21
all these years you guys have been wondering why the guard changed his faces for a half a second.
18:26
You're all going to find out right now. And I didn't Google it.
18:29
I didn't Google it. You know what it is? Go ahead.
18:33
It is because that's when the other guards, he doesn't make it.
18:38
Obviously the other guards attack him. Yeah. And they put him in that prison,
18:43
that little cell, and he's tied down.
18:45
Then they go back in and he's disappeared.
18:49
That is because during that whole escape scene, they were trying to bring him back into time.
18:56
So that guard's face is one of the henchmen that's in the judge's thing from the future.
19:01
So what he is seeing is one of the people trying to bring him back into time. That is time.
19:08
So that's why he's seeing reflections of other characters from the future and
19:13
then when he disappears that's what he was seeing it could be maybe it's because
19:19
he was doped up to the eyeballs that he's seeing.
19:22
I don't think that's how the time travel works here it's just instantaneous
19:26
there's not actually people pulling him back to the future although it's not
19:30
properly shown it's never explained and that's actually a good thing because how can you,
19:37
Well, because when he's seat by the guard, then why was he? Because that guard.
19:41
That was just a different guard, I think.
19:43
No, it's not. The big, tall, bald guard that he ends up fighting in the future is in the future, right?
19:51
And the guard he sees is just a regular guard dude, and then for about 10 seconds,
19:55
it changes his face to the guard he recognizes from the future.
19:59
There are similarities, I would say, just to sort of back that up in a way,
20:03
there are similarities to the way he's treated in the future and whenever he
20:07
comes back to 1990, in that he basically gets his shit kicked out of him,
20:12
and shard and scrubbed and then imprisoned type thing.
20:16
So there are, it could be, I think you may be onto something,
20:19
but I think it could be just Terry Gilliam messing with people's heads intentionally. I don't think so.
20:26
I don't think, I think it's, I think they're trying to get him back.
20:30
Yeah, but I don't think that's how their time travel works. You sort of see
20:33
it with the whole tube thing and then it's instantaneous. I don't know.
20:37
I don't know. Yeah, but you don't know. You don't know that.
20:39
Yeah, exactly. Mine makes sense.
20:42
So you're welcome, people. Let's just say Kieran's right.
20:45
Tardy telling them if you're listening. Kieran's has your sauce.
20:48
You worked out. He knows. Yep.
20:51
Next thing's up, I'm going to do time bandits and figure that fuck out.
20:56
No, I got confused.
20:58
He goes, they pull him back and they're like mad because, you know,
21:03
you didn't do your job. And he goes, listen, you fucking twats.
21:06
You sent me through the wrong time. And they're like, oh, whoops.
21:09
Yeah. I was basically sectioned.
21:13
So I'm going to give him another chance. This is the one scene that I get confused with.
21:18
He leaps and now he's in a French barracks in World War I. Yeah. In the trenches.
21:26
Yeah. And he sees his buddy, Jose. Yes. His prison partner, whatever.
21:32
And then you'll see a photograph later of both of them in the same photo.
21:38
And Bruce will see that because he knows Jose and the shrink knows him. Yeah.
21:44
And so that's what she believes because he's in this photo, this famous photo from World War I. Yes.
21:50
When was he in World War I? When everybody was at Jose?
21:55
Both of them. When did that happen? Why? And then all of a sudden, he's back in 1997.
22:03
Because future scientists, like whenever the sentiment in 1990,
22:06
sent him to the wrong year by accident.
22:08
That's all right. Okay, so it's a missed trip. Yes. They bring him back, and then, okay.
22:13
They don't state that. Yes. They don't state that. Well, again,
22:17
it shouldn't tell the way it should be, but it's a case of they then eventually.
22:21
Fuck off with that. No, serious. serious but then they realize then
22:25
that they fucked up and sent him and jose they
22:29
could even have sent i mean in the more than in fact they did they would have
22:32
sent jose at a completely different point but with time travel it doesn't matter
22:35
but essentially a lot of people actually think that actually bruce willis lived
22:41
from 1917 to 1996 no they basically realized they've messed up the future scientists and they then,
22:49
bring them back and actually get them to 1996.
22:53
Yeah, that's a mystery and it's sloppy. You're not told.
22:57
When you're doing something like a time travel, I understand your shit films
23:01
that don't give you any explanations and you'll quote that. Sure don't tell.
23:05
Can I finish, please? Go ahead. You like your own fucking choose your own adventure.
23:11
Oh, what artistry. So clever. No. You're doing mystery time travel.
23:17
You got to give us a point A, B and C.
23:20
They're going to be a little sloppy because it's time travel.
23:22
There's loops and shit like that. That's fine. We talked about that Back to the Future.
23:26
But when you show us the scene during World War I and then cut to 1997,
23:31
well, where's the B? I thought it was obvious. Why?
23:35
I'm not being serious. Because it's already been established.
23:40
You did not. You didn't know about it until I brought it up.
23:42
That's what it was. Just like the prison guard.
23:47
I'm bringing you all this great knowledge. bullshit. And I'll tell you why.
23:50
Because it's already been well established that the future scientists have not
23:54
got time travel down to an exact science because they've sent them to 1990 instead of 1996.
23:59
So I thought it was obvious. It was just because they're basically,
24:03
I wouldn't say useless because they've actually created time travel but they haven't perfected it.
24:09
It's sloppy. It's not sloppy at all. We'll go with it. It's sloppy.
24:13
Not at all. Not at all. Whatever. So,
24:18
We meet Dr. Peters. That is David Morris' character. He's in it for 30 seconds
24:22
right there. Get his book signed.
24:25
Yeah, get his book signed. He comes out pretty creepy. Yeah.
24:30
Yeah, there's a lot. Actually, that scene before she actually is doing the book
24:35
signing, where she's talking, there's a lot of sort of foreshadowing about,
24:39
you know, basically the biblical apocalypse and the Book of Revelation and stuff.
24:44
It's very clever, all very cleverly written. but I must admit the first time
24:49
watching it I didn't even catch him as one because David Morse wasn't a famous
24:53
name at the time, you know,
24:55
back in the mid 90s it wasn't until like the later 90s I should have caught it,
24:59
yeah, he kind of made a resurgence but we knew him in the States he was a TV actor from St.
25:05
Elsewhere and so forth but he wasn't he was doing movies but he wasn't the movie
25:12
guy yet I think it was the Green Mile that really put him on the map here. Well, with me anyway.
25:19
Yeah, he's done so many films. He's a good actor, but I should have caught on.
25:22
He was like, why is this guy in there for two seconds? He had to play a bigger part.
25:26
I mean, at the time it was just, there's some guy getting his book signed and
25:30
I forgot about it and moved on.
25:33
And I didn't catch it basically the first time watching it.
25:36
Because now David Morse would be more well known.
25:40
Modern people watching it for the first time would catch it, I think.
25:44
Yeah, yeah. And that's why a company thinks it kind of loses its,
25:48
you know, it's a mystery and so forth.
25:52
I think it actually improves on repeat viewing because you notice more things,
25:56
but obviously with the big surprises, they lose their impact on repeat viewing
26:00
because you know what's going to happen.
26:02
Like the guard and them turn again from time travel like I just brought up. Boom.
26:08
Well, did you notice that he sort of- Okay, thanks Trevor. Maybe it's an attention
26:11
allure. Well, we'll go back to the guard actually.
26:14
See that issue of the weekly world news that he's reading.
26:17
I have that. Or I have the poster of the Bat-Child. It's the infamous Bat-Child
26:21
issue. Oh, everyone knows.
26:23
But it was published in 1982 and this is set in 1990.
26:29
So, this particular scene. So, maybe the guards in a time traveller. That's my point.
26:34
My point is I think he quickly sees a glimpse of the future as they're trying to take him back. Maybe.
26:44
Maybe. But I was, it bugged me more that, that, that the guard was reading a
26:50
newspaper that hadn't been published yet for another couple of years.
26:53
No, I just proved the whole thing. The Bat Boy. It's all because of the Bat Boy.
26:59
I had a massive poster of Bat Boy. I love Bat Boy. I'm a freak.
27:07
So when he kidnapped her to go to Philly. Yes. Yes.
27:11
Yeah. Philly. Yeah. The fresh prince of Baila. Philly. Philadelphia.
27:16
It's Philly. That's what we call it. All right. I'm joking. I was raising the
27:21
stage. I can say Philly. You fuck not. Fucking.
27:25
The fresh prince of, I don't know, Boston. The four winds.
27:33
Fucking anyone over, you guys want to know this. Well, some of our listeners
27:36
will, but it's fucking windy as hell. and right now.
27:41
And as you know, Ireland is a, it's an island, you know?
27:44
And so any kind of wind storm, it gets really windy.
27:49
And if you're in an area where it's very hilly, you get it really hard.
27:54
And I live in a place called the Four Winds.
27:57
So I'm getting fucked.
28:00
Well, Belfast support anyway. So yeah, I mean, you're screwed basically.
28:05
Or we're screwed, yeah. Yeah.
28:07
But at least here, we don't have things like volcanoes or earthquakes and stuff.
28:12
So although we'll moan about the weather, we're actually quite fortunate in other ways.
28:15
We don't have exactly the weather. Yeah, there's no tornadoes,
28:18
earthquakes, you know. Yeah.
28:21
It's just shit all the time.
28:25
Even in the summer. This is the only place, the only country where everyone carries a backpack.
28:34
Right. Everyone carries a backpack just because you just don't know if it's
28:39
going to rain, is it going to snow? Have you been cold on it? Yeah. So.
28:44
All right. So we meet this old man, the homeless dude.
28:48
Yes. And he is an ex-time traveler who escaped because he removed his tooth.
28:52
He found out they track you with the tooth. He's the voice that he hears whenever,
28:57
that James Cole hears whenever he's like in future prison.
29:01
You know, he hears a voice like talking to him. am I really here?
29:06
Or, you know, are you in seeing type thing? That's him. We actually meet him in the flesh.
29:10
Yeah. The street preacher is a, a lot of these people he meets in 1986 are from
29:17
the future. Like the street preacher.
29:19
Yeah, he recognizes them. Yeah. So Jeffrey is going to go against his dad.
29:26
Now, this is the whole thing I was talking about earlier about Jeffrey.
29:29
He's a very inconsistent character, and that's what I don't like about him.
29:32
I felt that what they should have done was make him more grounded once he's
29:36
released from the Institute.
29:38
The Institute is batshit crazy and really gone nuts. But once he kind of kept
29:42
that persona, A, no one's going to listen to him to create the 12 Monkeys,
29:46
He's like these fucking idiots that we meet at their little hideout.
29:51
The student types, yeah.
29:52
Yeah, the little student. No, it's because he's batshit crazy.
29:55
Also, his father allowing him to sit down at a big dinner like this, that's stupid too.
30:00
It's just because he's still the same character. They should have made him more
30:04
grounded, like someone who's dealt with his issues and demons or whatnot,
30:10
and he's a little more reserved now.
30:12
That would have been a better idea to keep his character that way.
30:16
And also more believability in the fact that he can cause this virus because he's more stable.
30:22
That would have played better than still playing the batshit crazy Jeffrey we got in 1990.
30:27
See, I like Brad Pitt and I do like the character, but the character does become annoying.
30:32
It's whenever he does, you know, like the sort of the things,
30:36
you know, like he does the twitches and stuff.
30:40
They become irritating after a while. And again, like I say,
30:43
he is very good here. And I do like Brad Pitt. But...
30:48
Does, I mean, he's obviously this sort of comic relief as well.
30:52
It works, but it does become a little annoying.
30:55
Yeah, it just doesn't, I understand that it works, and he probably just kept
30:58
it in there because he was so good at that initial introduction,
31:01
which I can understand he is very good in it, deserved all the kudos he got for it.
31:05
However, it just, he's supposed to be faking everyone out that he's turned this
31:09
new leaf and his father wants to make him an example and blah,
31:13
blah, blah, and so my son's doing this now, and he should have played it more straight.
31:17
It would have played off better and then maybe lose the plot down the road.
31:21
I don't know. Maybe that was Gillingham's directions to Brad Pitt. I don't know.
31:26
Oh, it had to be. That's not Brad Pitt. That's direction. Well,
31:28
it can be a bit of both, but yes.
31:30
Apparently, according to a story I read, Brad Pitt was unsure about how to play
31:34
basically this insane patient and he was discussing it with Terry Gillingham
31:38
and basically what they ended up doing after all these discussions was basically
31:42
Gillingham took his cigarettes off him.
31:46
That was enough. Apparently Brad Pitt's a heavy smoker. Oh, I didn't know that.
31:50
Yep. He took his... Where you go, Pitt. He took his fags off him.
31:54
Fags. That's what we say at Belfast. Fags. You're fags.
32:01
You guys are funny. You don't get that kind of talk in Philly.
32:05
Oh, are you guys more classy? Yeah. Classy. We're classy. I've been to Philly,
32:11
Buffalo once when I was a kid.
32:13
Okay. For Benjamin Franklin and shit.
32:16
Right. El Pan. EPUB. Yeah. Good old Benjamin Franklin. El Pan.
32:21
Founding fathers of the country. Yep.
32:24
Yes. The Liberty Bell. Yep.
32:27
Okay, so...
32:30
Yeah, so Jeffrey's kind of written out a bit. He's kind of, he has a cameo here
32:33
and there. He's a supporting character.
32:35
And again, I just feel, yes, there's a one-line fix where his buddies say he's
32:42
lost the plot and we're kind of kicking him out.
32:45
They're pretty annoying, actually, but they're sort of, I suppose,
32:48
meant to be annoying as well, you know?
32:50
Well, you know, a lot of these activists can be, you know, they're so... Over the top?
32:56
Yeah, and... Extremists, yes. So, yeah, they're not going to see what,
33:00
what we would see as, you know, a normal person.
33:04
Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no. Basically. Yeah. That can be crazy. Yeah.
33:09
Well, when he goes to confront Jeffrey and he, and Jeffrey starts losing the
33:14
plot again when he sees, uh, kind of going back into full Jeffrey mode when
33:17
he sees James Cole again, and that's where he tells him, you're the one who gave me the idea. Yes.
33:23
And this is where his downfall starts to happen to James Cole because the guilt starts to kick in.
33:28
But then, whenever after there's that chase with the security at the mansion,
33:33
and he ends up going back to the future to bring him back, he basically begs
33:39
to go back to 1996 because part of his journey is that he thinks that actually...
33:48
Dr. Reilly is right, and he is insane, and the future, the whole life he has
33:53
in the future, is basically a construct in his mind type thing.
33:57
Because I was thinking about it, and if time travel were a real thing,
34:01
and I love time travel stories, it would send you insane.
34:04
And there's a line here where, you know, he says, I don't believe that anyone
34:08
is supposed to exist in two dimensions.
34:10
And it probably would send you insane whenever you think about it.
34:14
So each time he comes back, the first time, 1990, he's in an institution because
34:20
he beats the crap out of two cops. Yeah.
34:22
Next time they come back, he's a little more reserved, a little more focused.
34:26
Third time he comes back, he's sad and depressed. So we get all these different
34:31
personalities from him each time he comes back.
34:33
Now, the next time he comes back, he knows, no, he's guilty of maybe causing
34:40
this because they think the 12 monkeys who released this virus,
34:44
but it wasn't, we find out.
34:46
But he still thinks that. Yeah. So there's this guilt. Now we get this guilt
34:50
ridden time traveler who's been sent back.
34:53
But the third time- He's a lot more soft-spoken.
34:56
He doesn't have that violent temper that he has.
35:00
So the third time he's coming back though he basically
35:04
at first thinks that actually all
35:07
of this is in my head and actually dr reilly is right
35:10
i actually am insane and he wants her he wants to see her again and for because
35:15
he's in loveware as well but also he wants her to cure him but then but at this
35:20
point the things have flipped because she's then found the bullet she's found
35:25
out that bullet was from World War I and seen the photo so she now says no,
35:29
this is actually what you were saying before is actually true,
35:33
you know, this is all real, essentially and you really are a time traveller
35:38
so then he comes to accept it,
35:41
that she's actually, you know, that he actually is. It's complicated.
35:46
And it does require several views that, you know, get all the little touches.
35:51
Well, it's not, I mean, no, those are kind of in your face, the picture and
35:55
the bullet. They kind of spoon feed that to you.
35:58
It's little things like the preacher and, and then we meet the homeless guy
36:03
with the tooth, but he's gone. And then there's a scene in the hotel when the
36:08
pimp shows up. That's funny.
36:09
But yeah, He takes out his tooth and she's trying to convince him you got to make the call.
36:17
Now this is the year you're back. You need to make that call you're supposed
36:20
to make because it's the right year.
36:24
And then he takes out his tooth. But this is where he's like to say he's very relaxed and quiet.
36:29
But once the pimp shows up and he smacks, goes after the doc,
36:37
James Cole goes back to who he was and beats the shit out of him.
36:41
He's pretty much going to kill this guy.
36:42
Yeah. But he doesn't. She stops him from doing it.
36:46
And it kind of brings him back into the loot a little bit.
36:49
And then she makes the phone call that we hear at the start,
36:51
but it's distorted at the start, you know, in the future.
36:54
Yeah, but we find out. Have a nice Christmas. Yeah. Yeah. And then we find out
36:59
that's her voice that he hears. Yes.
37:02
In the recording. Yes. The recording that the call he's supposed to make is
37:07
supposed to be her voice on the voice box, in the voicemail.
37:10
It's because they have to, the future people have to piece the phone calls together,
37:15
and it takes a long amount of time.
37:18
So they thought that the message was from him, but it was actually from her. She made it.
37:23
Back when she was with him in 1986. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
37:30
Yeah, basically it was her that leaves the message. But it's distorted because
37:34
they're still piecing it together in the future.
37:37
You cut, and then we cut. See, I like the, I mean, I know you have to cut back to Jeffrey.
37:43
So he condemns his father. And this whole thing is such a, I know they're trying
37:48
to, oh, my God, why he's got the, you know, it's, what's he going to do next?
37:53
But when you watch it now and this is what I was talking about replay value
37:56
and just hold up, this stuff is where I watch it now and I roll my eyes and
38:00
I'm like Jesus, why did I catch this before?
38:03
And this is where the movie loses a little steam for me, the whole Jeffrey's
38:07
kidnapping the father now and how
38:10
we're being misdirected now we're at the airport and oh, is that Jeffrey?
38:13
Well, clearly it's not going to be but again, it fooled me once so I got to
38:18
applaud the film for doing that a second time And I'm like, no, this is pretty...
38:24
You know there there is a good not as clever as i thought it was yeah i mean there there is i mean,
38:30
the character of jeffrey certainly has a point in terms
38:33
of making it you know fleshing out the film in terms of you know giving us the
38:36
red hurrying and stuff but say if this was a short story and in fact i i don't
38:42
believe the jeffrey character is in the original short french film i would have
38:46
to double check out it's been a while but yeah i mean he you still have the story without Jeffrey.
38:53
Essentially he is more of a, well he is a red herring. I don't know.
38:57
The character does become a little irritating after a while.
39:01
Basically Brad Pitt's fine as the character.
39:05
But you know, it's really about the story of James and the psychiatrist, Catherine.
39:12
So when they go to the airport and Jose's there.
39:17
Yes. And we find out that you're not supposed to kill He says you're supposed to kill...
39:26
He says you're supposed to kill the doc no no no,
39:30
all their job is to go back the way the rules work here is basically,
39:37
you cannot change what happened the apocalypse happens no matter what and this is right,
39:43
this has proved to be right but what you can do is go back and get information
39:47
about the virus to bring it to the future where the scientists can then use
39:53
that information to work on a cure so that mankind in the future can get the,
40:00
stop being underground basically and go back
40:03
to the surface of the planet but so why
40:07
does he give him the gun to protect himself because Bruce
40:10
Willis has ripped his tooth out what is also forbidden is for these guys to
40:16
stay in the past and obviously they want to because you know as they state there's
40:20
drugs and women and also clean air he broke the rules by ripping his teeth out
40:26
and wanting to stay with Dr.
40:27
Riley but he but Jose is the one who goes but Jose goes I'm supposed to take
40:34
you back yes because they realized and then he tells them he tells them about the voicemail yes and.
40:41
But why is Jose giving him the gun? Because, for his own protection, because he's his mate.
40:47
Jose was sent back by future scientists to bring James Cole back.
40:53
But because he's his mate, he's saying, I don't want to do that to you, you know, type thing.
40:57
Here, there's a gun for your protection, because they will come for you.
41:00
And you also see future guy who has, you know, he's a big guy,
41:04
but like the blonde hair and stuff.
41:05
So there's other future guys there, and they're coming for him.
41:08
And Jose knows this. he's basically giving it to him for his own protection
41:12
because he knows other future guys will come and they're already there and I do like the twist where,
41:20
technically James does not succeed he gets shot yes before he can take out David
41:26
Morse David Morse's character Dr.
41:28
Peters yes but I do like at the end when one of the judges sits down next to
41:32
him on the plane see that is a very there's a lot of debate about that scene
41:36
I must admit But when I first saw that scene, I thought it was a great twist.
41:40
And that was the younger version of future scientist.
41:43
She says, I'm an insurance. But it's not, actually.
41:47
It's her. Yeah, it's her from the future. She's come back from the future. Yeah.
41:51
Because that was always the plan, where basically all Cole had to do was get
41:56
information, and then they would deal with the rest. They would sort the rest out.
42:00
So, you know. But it's also stated by them that it's set in stone that no matter what,
42:06
apocalypse happens we cannot change that but yeah but i know there's been a
42:10
bit of debate about is that like a younger version of her but it can't be because
42:13
the future scenes are set in like 2035 no because bruce willison isn't any younger
42:18
yeah i know yeah so no no but what i mean,
42:24
some people including myself originally thought this was her you know like her
42:29
future self told her younger self yeah get on that plane to stop him no more
42:33
that it was basically her,
42:36
before she became a future scientist time traveler, she was just like a business
42:40
woman who just happened to be like a bit of a sort of twist.
42:43
She just happened to be sitting on the plane beside him.
42:46
But no, it's her future self who has come back. Oh yeah, I figured that right.
42:50
Yeah, the minute she sat down, I knew that was her. Yeah, I'm an insurance.
42:54
She doesn't have those glasses.
42:57
But yeah, I remember people saying this and Bruce dies, but he does.
43:02
Yeah, he is Yeah, his future self dies, but it's the kid in his flashbacks is him. Yes.
43:11
And he's there at the airport seeing himself die, but he doesn't know it's him.
43:16
So it's just Bruce being as a kid. Yeah.
43:21
So it's how do you take it?
43:24
It's bittersweet. Yeah, it's bittersweet. But at the same time,
43:28
is witnessing a man getting shot to death right in front of you is the reason
43:32
why he becomes the violent man he becomes in the future?
43:36
Possibly. There's a lot of... No, no, with any good time travel story,
43:39
there's going to be all sorts of paradoxes and all these loops and stuff. So, yeah.
43:44
Yeah. I think this is fantastic.
43:47
And I've always loved it. I actually think it's one of the best films of the 1990s.
43:51
And one of, as I said earlier, one of Bruce Willis' best performances. Yeah.
43:56
It's a good performance by him and by Pitt. I just don't think the character
44:01
of Brad Pitt was written properly near the second act.
44:04
And I felt it got annoying, especially seeing it again.
44:07
And I felt that the whole red herring, I was more rolling my eyes at this point
44:12
rather than going with it like I did back when I saw it in 95.
44:16
So it doesn't really, it's fun. It's a good watch and everyone needs to see it.
44:21
It's definitely a lot of people put it on their top. I can see that.
44:26
But if like Terry Gilliam stuff, no one saw it. You guys need to see The Fisher
44:31
King. It's by far his best work.
44:34
I love the subplot of the kid down the well who's not really in the well.
44:38
And that's whenever Dr. Riley starts to believe Bruce Willis because he says
44:43
that's just a prank. He's in a barn.
44:45
Yeah. And he doesn't realize how he came up with it. He just said,
44:48
oh, I just guessed. You know, I just made that up. Whatever.
44:51
Yeah. Yeah. But way too many coincidences to see witnesses that makes her believe.
44:57
There are a lot of coincidences in this film and story overall,
45:01
which have always irritated me slightly, but I think they're intentional.
45:06
For example, he just happens to be in the exact same, an insane asylum as Brad Pitt's character.
45:13
But yeah, I can sort of, it's all intentional by Gillingham.
45:17
I mean, it's playing around with time travel and the whole, All of this is all
45:21
sort of predestined by the universe sort of thing.
45:24
I sort of get it more now, whereas before I thought there was maybe a little
45:27
too much coincidence, you know, conveniences within it.
45:31
Yeah, no, I'm running with. It's actually don't fuck with Mother Nature and
45:35
don't fuck with... Yeah, and it's also a story.
45:38
And the whole thing is, the whole thing, you can actually take the film and
45:42
say, it's actually, the whole point of it was, these scientists going back are
45:49
the reasons why this happened in the first place.
45:53
Yeah, science. Because technically, Bruce Willis planted the seed with Jeffrey.
45:58
Jeffrey got the idea from Bruce Willis and then Jeffrey told everybody about
46:02
it and then that exploded.
46:04
So technically, it could be don't fuck with time travel or whatever.
46:08
Or, well, I mean, or don't trust scientists.
46:10
But basically, it's also a story, essentially.
46:13
It's a deep dive into the human mind and insanity.
46:16
You know, all those sorts of things.
46:19
Yeah, I've always loved this film. Owned it as soon as it became available on
46:23
home video. I owned it in home video and I think it's fantastic.
46:27
Yeah. All right. Great Christmas film.
46:31
Yeah, very Christmassy. Another Christmas film with Bruce Willis.
46:37
The keen of Christmas films.
46:40
Yeah. Next up, a Christmas classic for all of you.
46:45
Silent Night, Deadly Night, the remake. Yeah. We got our tickets.
46:49
Going to see it. And we'll have it recorded soon. And we'll have it out.
46:54
And then we're going to do Home Alone.
46:57
And really start focusing. Once we get rid of, well, Saturday Night Daddy is
47:02
a Christmas movie Whether you like it or not, it's going to be But we're gearing
47:06
toward Home Alone, Deck the Halls, and Trevor's Pick,
47:11
a Christmas train I would say that, although, as I've stated before,
47:17
I haven't actually seen Home Alone yet But the general concept sounds like a
47:22
home invasion horror film So, we'll see anyway,
47:27
All right, that's all we got. I got nothing else to add. We're going to wrap
47:30
this one up. We'll chat soon.
47:32
And I'm going to end this now because I always drag these out.
47:36
Why the fuck do I always drag these out? You have to know when to climax.
47:42
You need fucking help, man. You need so much fucking help and guidance in your life.
47:47
Watch Battle Beyond the Stars and Viking Space Woman. That'll help you.
47:51
Yeah, I bet you've been watching that all the time. I bet you've been having a good time.
47:57
All right, we're done. Ciao, soon.