Latest / Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond / Following Their Noses: Dog Training Through Natural Scent Work

Transcript

Following Their Noses: Dog Training Through Natural Scent Work · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

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Welcome to the PauseBetweeners podcast, co-hosted by our best friends Natalie and Sasha.
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We're lifelong animal lovers and proud pet parents and Betweeners we share our lives with
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cats Weaver and Murray and Betty the pug.
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In each episode we'll dive into the joys and challenges of living with our furry companions,
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sharing honest stories, laughter and sometimes a few tears.
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We'll also bring in special guests to offer expert-backed tips and proven practices
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for keeping your pets happy, healthy and loved.
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Please note some episodes may touch on sensitive topics or contain strong language.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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And thank you for joining us.
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Hello again.
0:38
Hello again, Nat. How are you doing?
0:41
Surviving this heatwave.
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Surviving the heatwave. It's so hot. So damn hot.
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Well, it has been really hot. I know we start a lot of these podcasts talking about the weather.
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About the weather.
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Which is a very British thing, but I think it's justified this week.
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Oh, definitely. Friday night was awful. It was really hot.
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I couldn't tell whether I had like a hot, hot body.
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No, I had a cold body, but I had a hot head.
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I ended up going to get, in the middle of the night, a cold flannel.
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I got a flannel, runned it under the tap and then just stuck it across my forehead
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because I was just overheating.
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But it worked a dream. I left it on all night, woke up in the morning with it on.
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Well, it's good that you still stayed on.
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You couldn't have moved about that much in the night.
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No, no. Thank God it's cooled off.
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Thankfully. I mean, 35 degrees is hard. It's hard for our pets. It's hard for us.
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It's just hard generally. But before we go on to sort of keeping cool,
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because I'd love to know about how you're keeping me from Marie cool.
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We're really pleased to have a special guest with us today called Marilyn,
1:49
who is from the Canine School of Trailing.
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We'll be introducing Marilyn in a short while.
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Our focus today is very much about the art of pet trailing,
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which is something very new to me, something I've not ever done before.
2:02
But I say I've not done it before, Betty loves to sniff.
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So effectively, it's about scent work and working or training with your dog
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to not really learn to sniff because dogs love sniffing and they know what they're doing,
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but actually maximising the power of their little nose to think about
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how you can build strong connections between dogs and handlers,
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positive reinforcement-based training and all that great stuff.
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So, yeah, it's about letting dogs do what they do best,
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which is follow their noses with purpose.
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Yeah, I suppose if it gives a dog another little outlet and a bit of, like,
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interactivity and stimulation, it's probably going to be really good.
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I look forward to hearing about it, actually.
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Yeah, so looking forward to talking to Marilyn.
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But, yeah, back to keeping cool.
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I mean, how have Weaver and Murray been doing in the heat?
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Do you know, they've not been too bad.
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And I was kind of thinking, I mean, they're really furry because they're ragdolls.
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They've got really long hair and it's quite thick.
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I've been brushing them like a fiend the last few days to try and get rid of excess hair.
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They've got a cool mat. They don't use the cool mat.
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We've got fans. They don't like to sit in front of the fans.
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They seem to like to find the hot spot and sometimes they come upstairs.
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They're like, go downstairs. It's cooler downstairs.
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So, but they've been sleeping a lot.
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I think it got to them a little bit a couple of days where they've just been flaked out.
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But we've been giving them more wet food.
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We've been topping up their water bowls with ice cubes.
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And they've got two options for water so that they can pick if they're a bit fussy.
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And we have been putting the fans on.
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We've been trying to keep the house as cool as it possibly can for us humans anyway.
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So hopefully it worked for them a little bit.
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Because the other thing we have been doing at night, as soon as the temperature drops,
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is get everything open, let them in the garden and let them have a little bit of the fresher air.
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So that's been quite a relief at the end of the night when we can just sort of let them out
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and let them have a little sniff about.
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That must feel lovely for them.
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I know.
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Yeah, but it's funny, isn't it?
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How they're not sort of instinctively seeking out the cool options.
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Yeah, I did think about this though.
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Because when we've got the heating on, we've got like radiator beds that are literally attached to the radiator.
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And so when the heating's on, they are in them baking their heads entirely on there.
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So they probably can stand heat better than I can.
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But obviously it's the humidity because it gets quite sticky.
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So you've got to be really careful.
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Yeah, de-shedding is a good idea though.
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Like you say, sort of removing some of that excess fur.
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As much as possible.
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Yes, I've been doing it every day this week to try.
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But I'm just trying to follow lots of advice online.
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I've been Googling reputable organisations and even the RSPCA have got some stuff on their cat's protection.
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Like Kitty City, who we spoke to before, I follow her on social media.
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So I've been looking at what she's been suggesting.
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So that's all been really good.
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And I'm doing pretty much everything that they say.
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Because I want to make sure that they have a comfortable temperature.
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Yeah, so yeah.
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What about Betty? Because obviously Betty struggles with her breathing.
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How's that been going?
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Yeah, it's been really hard for Betty.
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Really hard, bless her.
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I mean, she struggles in the summer anyway.
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So yeah, it's always difficult.
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But because it's been so excessively hot, it's really, really bad.
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And I've been trying everything I can just to ensure that she doesn't get heat stroke.
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And just looking out for kind of like signs of that.
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But doing everything I can really to keep her cool.
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So no walks at all, apart from sort of taking her for a little wee first thing in the morning.
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Because we're in a flat.
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So we've got to take her outside just to her favourite pee patch.
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So not far at all.
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Like you, lots of water.
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We've got some ice, doggy ice poles or ice pops or paw pops as they're called.
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So she's been having some paw pops.
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Yeah, we've got fans.
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She tends to like to lie on the cool sort of floor.
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So not on the carpet, but on the wood floor and on the tiles in the bathroom.
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Oh, that's good.
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And I mean, one of the things that I was sort of doing, which when I was looking it up like you,
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looking it up online to get advice, I was sort of putting a towel, like a wet towel over her.
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And actually that's like not a good thing.
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Because a damp towel over a dog can trap the heat.
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So what you're supposed to do is put the towel on the floor and let them lie on that.
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But like we've got Marie not going to it instinctively,
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Betty is not interested in lying on the wet towel.
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So I've had lots of wet towels everywhere and she doesn't want to lie on any of them.
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But she'll let me put a wet towel over her.
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But then when I read that you can't do that because it's not good, so I stopped doing that.
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And yeah, my neighbour was talking about getting a paddling pool out.
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And I said, oh, I'm going to bring Betty along for that because she will sort of stand in water.
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She's never really enjoyed swimming.
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But yeah, that hasn't quite happened.
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But I have put Betty in the shower several times and just let some sort of cool,
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cool water fall on her and that helps.
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So, yeah, it's been tricky, but we've been keeping our windows closed,
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curtains drawn to kind of make sure it doesn't get too hot in the flat.
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Yeah, I know it was it was tough because we went to a wedding on Friday
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and I was really anxious because we're going to be out for five, seven hours,
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maybe leaving the house kind of locked up.
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But we did the same thing. We did all the curtains, we did all the blinds.
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I left two fans running so that the air was at least moving.
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But when we came back, the house was very stifling
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and we immediately opened all the doors and let them out.
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I mean, they're fine. They came over to us fine.
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They didn't seem lethargic.
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They didn't seem sort of drained or anything like that.
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They weren't panting.
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There was nothing visible to say they were struggling in any way,
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but the house was really stifling.
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And as soon as we got out, they were kind of in the garden,
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having a little look around.
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But it made me just like I don't think I can leave them that long again
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because it did get quite still in the house.
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Although I don't really know what we would have done differently
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because we would have been in the house as well.
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But it's quite interesting because it was a lot cooler outside
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before we were able to get home.
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Just always be really careful and cautious.
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We did as much as we could, but I'm not going to do that again.
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I think if we were going to be out, we'd come back a lot earlier
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so we were ready to open up when the temperature dropped.
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Yeah. So I think the other thing just to say that I've been keeping an eye out on
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is when Betty has been going out for a quick pee stop
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is checking the temperature of the ground and the pavement.
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I think most people tend to do this, but yeah, they can get very hot
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and they always say basically if the ground is too hot to touch
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with your hand for five seconds, it's too hot for paws.
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So do look out if you're going on walkies over the next few weeks
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because I think it's going to actually go back to being hot again.
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I mean, it's slightly dipped today, but I think we're going to go back
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into a heatwave probably now for the summer.
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But just be aware of kind of your dogs limping or refusing to walk,
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licking or chewing at their feet.
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Their pads are darker in colour.
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They're missing part of the pad, which sounds really painful.
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Well, there's blisters or redness because that can be
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because the pavements are far too hot.
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But I'm sure all our doggy listeners out there are already aware of that,
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but that's something I've been checking daily with Betty's paws.
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They say a dog won't die from missing a walk.
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It's not the end of the world.
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No, exactly.
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But risking going out in the hot weather and them getting heatstroke
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is a bit of a risk.
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Yeah, it's not worth it.
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So stay cool, everyone.
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Stay safe.
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Thank you for listening to us today.
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And, yeah, we hope you enjoy the chat we're about to have with Marilyn.
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So, yeah, shall we connect with Marilyn and get going with that one?
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Let's invite her in.
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Yeah, let's invite her in.
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So, hi there.
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We're pleased to introduce Marilyn Gilchrist today,
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who is an animal training instructor from the Canine School of Trailing,
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registered with the PACT and the ABTC,
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and has a whole host of qualifications to her name,
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which I'm sure she'll talk us through.
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Marilyn's dog training journey started in 2016
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when rescue dog Lola came into her life.
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And I'm sure she'll tell us more about this,
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but I think it's fair to say that Lola developed fear aggression
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towards other dogs after being attacked.
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Marilyn started researching in earnest how best to help
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and a passion in dog training and behavior developed.
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One of the things that we're really keen to talk about today
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is Marilyn's use of dog trailing,
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which is a scent work sport and search activity
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where dogs follow the unique scent of a specific person or animal.
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Not only is it fascinating to watch,
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but it can also be brilliant for building confidence
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in nervous or reactive dogs.
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So, without giving too much away from me,
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because I'm not the expert, but Marilyn is,
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Nat and I are really pleased to introduce you today
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to talk more about your background, your passion,
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and also the trailing work.
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So, yeah, welcome.
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Thank you. Thank you for having me on.
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Pleasure. Pleasure.
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So, tell us a bit about you, Marilyn, and your dogs,
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your background and, yeah, the dogs that you have.
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Yeah. So, the dogs I currently have are Scout,
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our Staffordshire Bull Terrier,
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and Jem, who is a standard dashing cross chihuahua
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across several other breeds.
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Not deliberate. He was a rescue.
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And we call him a spicy dashing for short
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when anybody asks what he is.
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But, yeah, both are rescues.
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Scout came into our life at the start of COVID.
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So, first lockdown, and he was found straying on the streets.
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So, he'd been a stray for about two weeks,
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and she was picked up by the rescue that I volunteered with.
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And so, I immediately stuck my hand up to foster her
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and picked her up and just immediately knew that I was in trouble.
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He was this tiny little Brindle Staffie who just looked terrified,
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but also very excited at the same time.
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Oh.
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So, we got her checked out by the vets,
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and it turned out she was about 12 months old,
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had recently had a litter of puppies.
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We don't know what happened to them.
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Oh.
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And she was just in a bit of a state.
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But she was so open to being loved and being part of a family.
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And within about 24 hours, my husband declared that she was staying.
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Oh.
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So, he grew up with Brindle Staffie.
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So, that's why as soon as I saw her, I thought, here we go.
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But she just felt like family.
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So, she stayed with us.
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And Scout, in a lot of ways, is quite typical of a Staffie
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in that she doesn't really care much about other dogs.
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She generally just acts like they don't exist.
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And the only change to this was when she first encountered
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two miniature Dachshunds in my yellow raincoats.
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She just thought they were the most amazing thing that she'd ever seen.
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And she did loads of play bows, lots of spins,
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and did everything that she could to entice them to play.
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And from that point on, she was hooked on Dachsies.
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So, she just, whenever she saw them, would get so excited.
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So, we kind of always knew that if we ever did add to her family
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and get another dog, that that might be our best bet.
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So, when Jem came along, and it was my friend and business partner, Rachel,
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who tagged me in his little puppy rescue post,
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he just felt like he was our dog.
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And fortunately, the rescue agreed.
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And so, yeah, Jem came home.
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And he's been with me now for two years.
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So, he's just over two.
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Oh, lovely.
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I'm not sure Scouts is crazy about Dachshunds anymore.
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Had a fill already.
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I think having put up with Jem through puppy and adolescent phase,
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Scouts are a bit like, well, I probably should have kept my powder dry on that.
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But, yeah, they do get on.
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They're quite cute together.
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So, yeah, that's the two that we have now.
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It'll be like me and my niece and nephews.
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I don't have kids, so it's nice when the niece and nephews come,
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because then I can give them back.
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So, that's probably what Scout was thinking.
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Yeah, she's like, it's been two years.
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How long is he actually staying?
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And the rest is history now, then, I guess.
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And what about you?
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Tell us a bit about your background.
14:15
Yeah, so I have a background prior to dog training.
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I worked in communications in a bank.
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And through a sort of turn of events, we decided to get a dog.
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So, we were actually broken into when we were asleep upstairs.
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And out of nowhere, as we were waiting for the police, my husband just said,
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if you still want to get a dog, I think we should go and get one.
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And I was just like, is this the right time to discuss this, you know,
14:48
after something so traumatic?
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But also, while saying that, I immediately started to search on rescues.
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The green light went.
15:00
The green light went.
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And even as I was going through the motions of arguing against it,
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I was immediately searching.
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And I'd grown up with collies.
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So, I was looking for a sort of collie in rescue.
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And we found one not too far away called Sam.
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So, we decided to go and have a look at him.
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And as we went, started walking towards Sam's kennel,
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we walked past this big mix of sort of bull breeds type dog called Lola.
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And she just caught our attention.
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And we were like, you know, saying hello to her.
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And then carried on to Sam's kennel.
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But there was already a couple there meeting Sam.
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And so, my husband and I just looked at each other and went,
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we think Lola's our dog.
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And it's one of those moments where I get emotional
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just even thinking about it because, you know,
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she probably wasn't anything that we were, I guess, looking for.
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But she was perfect for us anyway.
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So, she was 18 months old.
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She'd been in the rescue for about six months.
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And yeah, she straight away just sort of fit into our family.
16:12
And everything was going great until she, yeah,
16:15
she was attacked by an off-lead dog.
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And unfortunately, it's one of those things sometimes with dogs
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where sort of one big, like, negative event,
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it just sticks with them.
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And it did with Lola.
16:29
So, after that, she didn't want other dogs around her.
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And obviously, I think because of her size and the type of breeds that she was,
16:37
that looked a lot scarier for people than, you know, for example, Jem.
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If he was to act the same way that Lola used to act,
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people probably wouldn't even look twice at him.
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But, you know, I immediately thought we've got to get on top of this.
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I didn't really know what I was doing.
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And so, I started doing a lot of research,
16:54
came across a lot of trainers who I would say didn't really have help.
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And some trainers who gave advice that when I later researched
17:04
from what I know now was blatantly wrong.
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And that was quite an eye-opener as well because at that point,
17:09
I just assumed that if somebody said they were a trainer,
17:12
then they would have experience and qualifications and things like that.
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Obviously, I then learned that it's completely unregulated
17:20
to say they're a trainer.
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And I was fortunate enough to eventually land on some really good trainers
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and behaviorists who helped us with Lola.
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And along the way, I also was looking for other activities that I could do with her
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because she was a young dog, she was intelligent,
17:37
and, you know, I wanted to spend time with her out doing things.
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But understandably, a lot of training classes just weren't suitable for her.
17:44
You know, she wouldn't be able to go into a village hall
17:47
and be happy with other dogs around her.
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And then there was a trailing workshop, a man trailing workshop,
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and I messaged explaining about Lola and kind of waited for the,
17:57
no, sorry, it's not suitable.
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And instead, it was like, yeah, absolutely, just book on.
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And I was like, what?
18:04
And we went along and we loved it.
18:06
And so, from that point, we were kind of hooked on trailing.
18:08
And, you know, we did more and more of it.
18:11
And unfortunately, we lost Lola when she was very young,
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so she was only four, and she passed away from lymphoma,
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which was, you know, devastating for us.
18:23
But I think the thing that Lola gave us was a love for trailing.
18:28
But she also opened the door to, you know, many more rescue animals
18:33
that have found their home with us.
18:37
You know, I think she taught us that you've just got to give it a go
18:40
and say yes.
18:42
So, yeah, Lola, she turned our world upside down.
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And my husband and I always say, thank goodness she did.
18:48
You know, we're living a completely different life now,
18:51
a much better one.
18:53
That's amazing.
18:54
So she's left her legacy with us.
18:56
Yeah, Lola's legacy.
18:57
I like the way they stay with you, the animals kind of,
19:00
they're not just these beings that kind of float in and float out of your life.
19:04
They really can make a massive impact and change who you are
19:08
and how you feel about things.
19:10
Absolutely, yeah.
19:12
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to unpack there, isn't there?
19:15
From all different kind of angles and thoughts,
19:19
my brain's sort of whirring here thinking, yeah, you know,
19:21
there's subjects there around like rescue and then thinking about pet loss.
19:27
And then you mentioned that you worked in communications
19:30
and you're now obviously a trainer, so that kind of career transition.
19:35
Yeah, there's lots going on in that time.
19:38
I mean, what then got you into the sort of training side of things
19:42
in terms of getting qualified yourself?
19:45
How did you sort of find that switch from communications?
19:49
Because, yeah, I work in comms as well, so get it.
19:52
Love dogs as well.
19:53
I'm kind of like maybe one day I could make the switch.
19:56
But, yeah, what did you do?
19:57
What steps did you take?
19:59
Yeah, so just from finding out more ways to help Lola,
20:03
I became more and more interested in dog training
20:06
and I started to do some sort of lower level courses
20:10
just to build up my own knowledge.
20:12
And at that point, it was just with a view to help Lola more.
20:16
And then I got the opportunity to take redundancy,
20:21
which I jumped at, probably a bit too enthusiastically.
20:25
But, yeah, I was in my 40s at that point,
20:28
so I was sort of like, if I don't follow my dream and passion now,
20:33
then will I get another chance to do this?
20:36
So I left and a lady who ran the dog walking company that we used
20:41
was looking for some ad hoc help.
20:44
So I sort of stuck my hand up and, can I come do that?
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And, you know, I do think dog walking is a great way.
20:53
It's a skill in and of itself, like it is a profession,
20:56
but it's also such a good way to learn how to manage and work with
21:02
and be around different dogs, different ages,
21:05
different breeds, different temperaments.
21:07
And so I did that for a while and then COVID hit, so everything stopped.
21:12
And that's when I thought, well, I've got this downtime.
21:15
And I did a dog trainer course and, you know,
21:19
had lots of chats with my husband about what direction to take.
21:24
And, you know, of course, impostor syndrome always pokes its head up
21:27
and you think, yeah, I'm going to do this.
21:29
And then you go to bed and you wake up at two in the morning
21:32
and you think you're absolutely crazy.
21:34
What are you doing?
21:35
There's no way anybody's going to pick you and, you know,
21:37
but you sort of just keep, you wake up again in the morning and go,
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okay, well, let's try again.
21:42
So I started, I got my first qualification and, you know,
21:46
just slowly started to build up my business
21:50
and then had the opportunity to learn how to become a trailing instructor.
21:56
And from doing that, it very quickly became that's my passion.
22:01
That's what I want to focus on.
22:03
And fortunately enough, as I was learning to become a trailing instructor,
22:08
so was Rachel and we struck up a friendship first.
22:13
And then after having a, we were walking around the field with our dogs.
22:18
I think it was me, I had this offhand comment of,
22:20
well, we could just start our own business.
22:22
Amazing.
22:23
And that's how the Canine School of Trailing came into being really.
22:27
That's such a great story because for everybody listening,
22:31
how you can change your career in later life.
22:34
And me and Sasha sort of at that point and we're sort of like, you know,
22:38
thinking about your passion and thinking about what drives you.
22:41
It's just such a kind of great story for other people to hear
22:44
that you can kind of go follow your dream and you did it.
22:46
You and Rachel, who's been on before, for anyone listening,
22:49
she came on and did Nose to Trail.
22:51
So it's worth sort of mentioning that for people.
22:54
So yeah, great that you met each other and were able to sort of start something up.
22:58
Yeah, definitely.
22:59
And we, because we live quite close to each other,
23:02
there was that initial bit of God, of course,
23:05
there's somebody else doing this that's not too far from me.
23:08
And we were like, so how do we do this?
23:11
Make it work for both of you.
23:13
Well, yeah.
23:14
And then Rachel just looked at the map and went,
23:16
do you want that side of the M6 and I'll take this.
23:18
It's a story that will resonate with many, many women or men
23:22
that are thinking of a career change in midlife.
23:24
And yeah, finding your sort of allies, finding your champions,
23:27
I think is really important.
23:29
And it's something that Nat and I are very mindful of.
23:31
And that's one of the reasons we're doing this podcast as well is
23:34
just reaching out to other like-minded people who really care about animals
23:38
and thinking about how can we build our network
23:40
and what can we learn from others who are doing some amazing things like yourself.
23:44
So thank you for sharing that story.
23:46
It's really good to hear that you've made such a go of it
23:49
and it's really successful.
23:59
Tell us a little bit about the trailing side of things then.
24:02
I introduced it very briefly with my limited knowledge,
24:05
but it's an area of sort of dog training or activities with dogs.
24:09
I don't know much about, so tell us a bit more about that.
24:12
Yeah, absolutely.
24:13
So in trailing, we're guiding dogs to follow a specific scent trail
24:20
to find either a person or an animal.
24:23
So we teach both.
24:24
So we teach man trailing and pet trailing.
24:26
And in our sessions, that animal is typically a dog
24:30
just because obviously it's easier to get a dog to lay a trail with you
24:34
than trying to bring your cat along.
24:37
I'm sure one of my cats would love it, but the other two not so much.
24:41
And dogs will follow scent trails all day long.
24:45
And so all we're really doing is saying,
24:47
if you follow this one, then you'll get a lovely reward at the end of it.
24:52
And because the act of following that scent trail is self-rewarding for dogs,
24:58
then you don't actually have to work too hard to convince most of them to do it.
25:04
And then when they find the person or the dog at the end,
25:06
they get a nice reward.
25:08
And that just helps them to want to do it again and again.
25:12
And it builds that optimism.
25:13
So if I do this, then I'm going to find something lovely,
25:16
and that's a great thing.
25:17
And because of all that, it's really good for building a dog's confidence.
25:21
So we get a lot of more nervous dogs or dogs with behavior quirks
25:26
who come along to sessions.
25:28
And it's such a nice thing for them to do.
25:30
It's good for the dogs to do because they build that optimism, that confidence.
25:35
They start to become happier in environments that maybe worried them before.
25:41
So there's all of those amazing benefits for the dog.
25:44
But then you also see handlers and guardians of the dogs
25:49
who maybe haven't been able to take part in group classes before.
25:53
So a bit like me with Lola.
25:55
You all of a sudden have a community of people around them
25:58
who absolutely get what they're going through,
26:02
will listen when, you know, they sort of say,
26:04
oh, please don't come too close to my dog or my dog doesn't like this.
26:08
And, you know, they listen to that and they never judge.
26:12
And I think that's one of the things that surprised me about trailing
26:16
is the community that builds up around it
26:19
and how lovely and supportive it is for everybody.
26:22
And it's just, it's such a lovely thing to see
26:25
that not only are the dogs loving it and enjoying it
26:28
and getting something amazing out of it, but the people are as well.
26:32
That's a really interesting thought, Marilyn,
26:35
because a friend of mine has a dog that she's struggling with
26:39
and feels quite in some ways isolated because the dog can cause difficulties.
26:46
And so she feels like people are judging her
26:48
and she can't go into certain public spaces and she's nervous.
26:52
People aren't happy that the dog's barking or lunging.
26:55
And, yeah, knowing that there's a community around it
26:58
of other people who understand the problem
27:00
and understand where it's coming from and why it's happening
27:03
and not judging necessarily like you're a bad parent,
27:06
you know, you're not looking after your dog correctly,
27:08
your dog's vicious, you know, not having all of these preconceptions.
27:11
I can see that being a really good tool to help people
27:15
and, yeah, get through together with the dog as well.
27:18
Yeah, it's really powerful when you see it happening
27:22
because in trailing, the dogs are worked individually.
27:26
So we typically would have four, we call them teams, on a session
27:30
and each dog gets their own individual time out doing their trails.
27:35
And so you can have, you know, we've had dogs that have to be muzzled
27:38
because they've got bite histories.
27:40
We've got dogs that are really reactive around other dogs,
27:43
you know, all sorts of things.
27:45
Who can come on to a trailing session and get to do this amazing activity.
27:49
But, yeah, their guardian also gets to hang out with other people.
27:54
And this great example of somebody who joined me for the first time
28:00
and she got out of her car and immediately started to apologise
28:03
for everything that her dog was about to do.
28:06
And it was, they're probably going to lunge and bark and be noisy.
28:12
And I was like, OK, and then one of my other customers said,
28:16
yeah, mine's like that as well.
28:19
And then the person next to them said,
28:22
yeah, my dog's going to do quite a lot of that as well.
28:25
And then everybody turned to the last person and they went,
28:28
yeah, all right, my dog's a bit like that.
28:31
And you could just see them physically relaxed.
28:34
Whereas no one's going to judge you because they're just worrying
28:37
about their own dog, to be honest.
28:40
And yeah, that's a great part of it.
28:42
It's such an inclusive thing to do.
28:45
We can tailor trails for all types of dogs, but also for people.
28:50
So I've had somebody in a wheelchair came and did a session with me.
28:54
I've got a lady who's had a double hip replacement.
28:57
We do trails for her.
28:59
You know, everything is so adaptable in trailing.
29:02
Yeah.
29:03
And I mean, I wish more people maybe knew about trailing
29:05
as something that they can do with their dog
29:07
if their dog's a bit reactive or anxious or fearful.
29:11
It seems like it's a fairly new concept,
29:13
but if you started getting involved in 2017, was it?
29:18
I guess it's been around for some time now.
29:20
Yeah, and I suppose as an actual activity,
29:23
it's been around for hundreds of years in terms of dogs following scents
29:28
to find things.
29:30
Man trailing as an activity for dogs is, I would say,
29:33
in terms of the history of dogs, is relatively new.
29:36
It has been around for a while, but like you say,
29:39
not many people know about it as a fun activity
29:43
that you can do with your dog.
29:45
And we're on a bit of a mission to change that.
29:48
Yeah, well, I think even not as an activity,
29:51
even as a solution to, like you said,
29:53
some of the behavioural problems and making them feel more confident
29:56
and maybe getting them over some of the reactivity that they have.
30:00
I never knew this.
30:02
The idea of trailing I kind of was aware of,
30:05
but didn't know how beneficial it could be.
30:08
So it's great to hear you talk about how dogs
30:10
and their guardians can get a lot out of it.
30:13
It's great.
30:15
I was reading actually a newsletter from a dog charity
30:18
that I support here in London just this morning,
30:21
and it was saying about how Daxies for them are the main breed
30:26
in terms of dogs being given up to them is sort of the top of the list
30:31
because they are used to going out and doing those things.
30:35
That's what they're bred for.
30:37
And they're probably not getting the opportunity
30:39
and it's impacting their behaviour.
30:41
Yeah, absolutely.
30:42
I mean, they were kind of originally bred to work in groups,
30:47
following scent trails independently of people.
30:51
So, you know, that's what you're bringing into your home.
30:54
And when they completely ignore you because they're off following a scent
30:58
and sniffing and doing their own thing,
31:00
they're kind of just being true to their genetics.
31:03
They're not the type of dog that has been bred to, you know,
31:07
constantly look to the human for guidance on what to do,
31:13
which often gives them the label of being stubborn.
31:16
And, you know, dogs aren't capable of being stubborn.
31:20
You know, that willful, well, I want to do it and I want the reward,
31:23
but I'm not going to just because you want me to.
31:27
Although it might feel like that at times, and I completely understand that,
31:31
it's not actually something that they're capable of.
31:33
And, you know, I've got to be honest, I think without trailing,
31:36
we would have struggled with Jem.
31:38
When we hit adolescence with him, you know, he just switched off completely.
31:44
But we kept getting him out trailing and doing that with him
31:47
and building the bond with him.
31:49
And, you know, you've got to, I've had to switch how I train.
31:53
Scout has spoiled me because she just wants to work for you.
31:56
You know, she'll throw out all her tricks and what do you want me to do
32:00
and what do you want me to learn and I'm here for you.
32:03
Whereas Jem just looks at me and you can sort of see him looking going, why?
32:08
Why do you want me to do that?
32:10
And, you know, it's just about finding what motivates them and working with them.
32:15
But yeah, I think they're small and they're cute and they're lovely,
32:19
which is why I think they're so popular.
32:21
But they are working dogs and they've been bred.
32:25
They're scent hounds at the end of the day.
32:28
Marilyn, you talked about man trailing and then scent trailing.
32:32
Explain those differences or activities that we do that's there.
32:37
Yeah, so we've got man trailing and pet trailing.
32:40
So man trailing is just looking for the person
32:43
and then pet trailing is looking for an animal.
32:47
So we do train with them looking for dogs,
32:50
but it is, you know, interchangeable to any animal really.
32:54
They're pretty much the same activity.
32:57
We are just lazy and shorten it to trailing.
33:00
Constantly saying man trailing and pet trailing.
33:04
The main difference between them is when we're doing pet trailing,
33:09
the dog that is searching doesn't go up to the lost dog.
33:14
So when we're doing man trailing, when the dog finds the person,
33:18
they go up to them and they get the reward from that person.
33:22
When it's a pet trail situation,
33:25
the search dog will stop a few meters away from the lost dog
33:29
and then turn back to the handler to say,
33:32
that's my dog, give me my reward now.
33:36
And we do that because it's based on actual lost dog search work,
33:41
where you wouldn't want the search dog running up to the lost dog
33:45
and saying, okay, I found you, give me my chicken now, please.
33:49
You know, you have the assumption that any dog that's lost
33:52
is going to be terrified and in survival mode.
33:56
Yeah.
33:58
But this is why it works so well for dogs who are worried by other dogs,
34:03
because that distance that we stop them can vary
34:06
depending on what works for individual dogs.
34:09
So it could be a couple of meters away
34:11
or it could be 10, 20 meters or more away.
34:14
It depends on what works for those individual dogs.
34:17
Yeah.
34:18
You start to build up that optimism with them around about,
34:21
okay, so I can be close to another dog and not only does nothing bad happen,
34:26
but actually I get a tub full of mackerel or chicken
34:30
or, you know, whatever their reward is.
34:32
And so they start to relax more around things that previously worried them,
34:37
which is why it's so great.
34:39
I was going to say, yeah, that's why it sounds really, like,
34:41
accessible and inclusive to, like, any animal.
34:45
So it feels like, you know, you can tailor your approach
34:49
depending on the kind of needs of both the guardian and the dog, right?
34:53
Yeah, absolutely.
34:55
There's kind of no part of it that we can't switch and change up
35:00
to enable either adaptions for the dog or for the guardian, you know.
35:05
And it's not the first time I'll get an inquiry and I'll be like,
35:08
yes, of course, come and do it.
35:10
And then I'll phone Rachel and go, so I've said yes to this.
35:13
How do we do it? How do we make it work?
35:25
And on that how you make it work, how do you get started then?
35:28
How do you transfer the scent from, say, the dog or the man to the dog
35:32
so they know what they're looking for?
35:34
How does that work?
35:35
Yeah, so really easily.
35:37
Dogs' abilities to, you know, pick up scent and remember it,
35:44
that scent memory, is astonishing.
35:47
And so, for example, if we were doing a scent article for a person,
35:52
then the person who's hiding could literally just pick up a pen,
35:57
hold it, and then drop it.
35:59
Oh, wow.
36:00
That's it. Their scent is then on the pen.
36:04
Yeah.
36:05
And that's all that's needed.
36:07
We just then point to the pen and ask the dog to sniff.
36:10
They'll sniff the pen and then they'll follow that trail.
36:14
And the trail is simply from that person walking.
36:17
So as they're walking, scent's pouring off them.
36:20
Even if you've had a shower, there's still going to be scent pouring off you.
36:24
And that's what the dogs pick up on.
36:26
And that's what they're able to follow.
36:28
When it's a dog that we're looking for, very, very similar.
36:31
Sometimes we'll rub a tissue on the dog or we'll take their collar
36:35
or there might be a dog blanket.
36:38
We've also done it where the dogs jumped out the car
36:42
and then we've got the search dog to come and sniff the area
36:46
outside the car where the dogs landed.
36:49
And they've been able to pick up on the scent and follow the trail.
36:53
So it really doesn't take much at all.
36:56
You don't need to be wearing something for days on end
37:00
to then give the scent to the dog.
37:02
It's quick touch and done.
37:05
Wow. I can see a whole other podcast coming along around the power of scent
37:09
or the science of scent with dogs and their noses and how that works.
37:13
Yeah.
37:14
It's crazy.
37:15
The whole thing we were saying, weren't we, about scent can go through water.
37:20
These police dramas and thrillers where the scent stops.
37:24
Tell us a little bit about that because I found that so fascinating.
37:27
Rachel and I love playing around with things and what can we test
37:32
and what can we see if the dogs can do.
37:34
And so when we were in Wales, I think it was in October with some people,
37:39
we were like, we're going to try some water trails.
37:42
Rachel's a wild swimmer.
37:43
She was very quickly volunteered to be the one going in the water.
37:48
Well, we got her to go into this river and walk upstream.
37:52
So as she was walking in the middle of the water,
37:55
her scent was going into the water and then obviously flowing downstream and away.
38:00
But also scent will drift and it will, it likes to cling to damp vegetation.
38:06
So it will, you know, as it drifts, it'll go onto the bank.
38:09
So you've got scent on the water that's coming downstream,
38:12
but you've also, it will kind of cling to the river bank, trees.
38:16
Rocks as you're going down.
38:18
So, you know, kind of whatever you're walking past.
38:21
And so then we started, I think we had about six dogs and we tried them all
38:28
and they all managed it.
38:30
You know, and these are dogs that are doing it for fun.
38:32
These aren't trained police search dogs.
38:36
And it was really interesting because you had some dogs who obviously loved water.
38:40
And as soon as they realized that the trail was in the water,
38:43
they were like, brilliant.
38:45
And we were sort of, you know, trying to stay upright behind them.
38:50
And then you had other dogs who realized it went in the water
38:53
and then looked at the bank and were like, okay, well, I can follow it online.
38:59
I think those handlers were a little bit relieved.
39:02
But yeah, for the ones that do, it can be fun trying to follow them.
39:07
Yeah, sorry for spoiling any of your favorite thrillers there
39:11
and dismissing that myth of they can't.
39:14
Yeah, the dogs are too clever.
39:16
I think it would have to be a very large river for the dog just to completely lose the scent
39:22
because, you know, they can air scent, you know, quite a distance as well.
39:26
Wow. How long do sessions typically last?
39:29
So they're about two hours.
39:31
Two hours, yeah.
39:32
And everybody takes turns at trailing their dog, hiding.
39:36
You can follow on and we always leave one person with the cars.
39:40
So we all park together and it means that the dogs that aren't working can stay settled and rested in their car
39:46
and you've always got somebody there looking after them.
39:49
You get a chance to do everything.
39:51
Dogs typically will get two trails each and it's amazing how tired they are after that.
39:57
And, you know, we often will get sent pictures of dogs just absolutely crashed out fast asleep.
40:03
And even the breeds that people say can never be tired out get tired after trailing.
40:09
So if you have a super energetic puppy, adolescent dog and, you know, you think,
40:16
I wouldn't mind a few hours peace, then take them trailing because it mentally is a great activity for them
40:22
and they sleep very well afterwards.
40:25
Yeah. And a few sort of dog moms and dads have said this to me before,
40:29
but there's something really satisfying about seeing your dog tired in a really positive way
40:36
because you know that you've worked them physically and mentally and hopefully they're a tired but happy dog.
40:43
And it's just a nice feeling.
40:45
I know I get that if I take my dog for a walk and she's sniffing
40:48
and she's really enjoying the process of just being out and about and then she's tired.
40:51
I'm like, yeah, I feel like I've done something good for her because she's really enjoyed it.
40:56
Yeah, you've met her needs, which is amazing.
41:00
And seeing your dog do something that makes them so happy.
41:05
I had a great example this morning, actually, of a toy poodle, this tiny little thing.
41:11
And she hadn't done any trailing for three years.
41:15
And I'd never met her before.
41:17
And she came along.
41:18
And as soon as she sniffed the scent article, she shot off.
41:22
I almost had to run, which I did not appreciate.
41:25
But she shot off and found the person so quickly and just looked so happy.
41:32
I think we were all a little bit emotional.
41:35
And her guardian was just like, this is what's been missing.
41:41
Because she loves it so much.
41:43
And I think, again, completely dispels the myth that you can't do stuff like this with small dogs.
41:51
They absolutely can benefit from having a little job to do and getting out and about.
41:56
And I think when we talked before, you mentioned there's some online training that you can do.
42:01
So if you want to learn yourself as a pet parent or a dog mom or dad,
42:06
and you want to do some trailing and you want to learn how to do it yourself first.
42:09
Is that right?
42:10
You've got some online courses where people can learn?
42:12
Yeah, absolutely.
42:14
So we run instructor courses.
42:16
And we would love to have instructors all over the UK, well, and the world,
42:21
so that everybody has an opportunity to trail.
42:24
But, you know, while we're waiting for world domination,
42:28
we'll pull together a short course called Teach Yourself Trailing,
42:33
which gives you enough information just to get out there and start to do it with your own dog.
42:38
So you can grab some friends, you know, ask people to hide for you and things like that.
42:43
And you can just give it a go.
42:45
And so it talks you through how to get started with man trailing,
42:50
how to introduce pet trailing, and then how to, you know,
42:54
make start to make it more difficult for your dog.
42:57
And so that's available on our website and it's just £10.
43:01
So we've deliberately just priced it low because we just would love every dog to have the opportunity.
43:07
And, you know, we don't really want cost to be, you know, a factor.
43:11
A barrier. Yeah.
43:12
Yeah, absolutely.
43:13
Oh, that's so good.
43:14
So, yeah, Teach Yourself Trailing.
43:16
Yeah, I'm going to give it a go.
43:18
And I hope you can find an instructor for London.
43:21
I think we've talked about that.
43:22
You said you're on the case or there is someone planned.
43:24
But I'd love to get involved with an event in London.
43:28
But yeah, if you're a dog trainer in London, you know, you have a large audience there.
43:33
You have people who want to do this.
43:36
So, yeah, get in touch with us.
43:38
And it's a great thing to add to your business.
43:41
So if people want to find out a little bit more about the Canine School of Trailing
43:46
and to learn a bit more about the sessions you run, how can they find you?
43:50
So they can head to our website, which is thecanineschooloftrailing.co.uk.
43:56
And on our homepage, there is a map that has all of our instructors and also student instructors on there.
44:04
So even if you don't have somebody qualified in your area, if you've got a student instructor,
44:09
you can still reach out to them to say, you know, if you're running classes, let me know.
44:13
If there is nobody near you, then you can get the Teach Yourself Trailing course, which again is on the website.
44:20
You can just purchase it through that and you get immediate access to that.
44:24
So it's £10 available on our website.
44:28
Oh, that's so good.
44:29
Brilliant.
44:30
We've got a variety of different ways that people can get involved and help themselves and help their pups.
44:36
So it's, yeah, so good.
44:38
So yeah, reach out everybody and follow up for more information, get in touch and hopefully be able to help your little relationship with your fluffy ones.
44:46
And if you do start trailing or you're interested in just trailing, then we also have a Facebook group for, you know, people who trail just to join.
44:54
And there's instructors on there, but it's just a place to just share stories and your journey and things like that.
45:00
So, yeah, that's just, again, the Canine School of Trailing.
45:03
I think it's Man Trailing Group.
45:05
But if you search on Facebook, it's there.
45:07
So, yeah, that's a little online community for people as well.
45:10
Brilliant.
45:11
Well, thank you for coming on today and sharing your story a bit about you and your dogs and your background and just, yeah, how trailing works.
45:19
It really is fascinating and definitely going to encourage some of my friends and family members to think about doing it with their own reactive doggies.
45:27
Yeah, giving us lots to think about.
45:29
So thank you, Marilyn.
45:30
Really appreciate you coming on.
45:32
Thank you, Marilyn.
45:33
Thank you for having me.
45:34
And, yeah, I could talk about trailing all day long.
45:37
Yeah, can really sense your passion.
45:39
But, yeah, I mean, good luck with everything and good luck with expanding what you're doing and that world domination.
45:45
We shall follow your journey very closely and we'll be cheering you on.
45:49
We will.
45:50
Thank you so much for coming.
45:52
Take care.
45:53
See you soon.
45:54
Let's keep in touch.
45:55
Yeah, definitely.
45:56
Bye-bye.
45:57
See you.