Latest / Be It Till You See It / 571. How to Define Your Own Sex Life

Transcript

571. How to Define Your Own Sex Life · Be It Till You See It

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Expecting your sex life to look the same when you are twenty and thirty and fifty and seventy is not helpful for you.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And so allowing it to mature as you mature is the most helpful thing that you can do for yourself.
0:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when it comes to your sex life.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the be it till you see it podcast where we talk about taking messy action knowing that perfect is boring.
0:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also Logan, prize instructor and fitness business coach.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt.
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: My friends, action brings clarity.
0:42
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's the antidote to fear.
0:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Each week my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic, and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it.
0:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a practice, not a perfect, let's get started.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: This might be the first guess that is coming on for a third appearance.
1:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she won.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I could be wrong, but I think she won.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Slas Hallberg is back.
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: She's back.
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk a couple of things about sex.
1:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about Bonnie and we're going to talk about her book.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about the journey that one goes on to get their work out into this world.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even if you are like, I don't know if I talk about the sex part, like, when we should talk about the sex part, that's actually what we should do.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want you to hear this because I think it's so easy to hear people on podcasts go, oh, it's so easy for them because they got on a podcast.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so easy and you don't hear
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: all the doors that get shut all the time.
1:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also am excited for you to hear like, there are people in this world who just want to help you to other out.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we need evidence of that.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm super, super excited that I get to be a cheerleader for amazing humans in this world.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that when I think about my like genius zone or something like that.
2:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes I think it's that I just get to cheer on people who are doing hard things and go I see you and you're doing great and I can't wait.
2:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.
2:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So guys, I'm gonna stop this because we're gonna get right into it.
2:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have, this is the first time you're hearing about Dr. Celas Hallbrook, I really encourage you to go back to the first episode we did get there.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Go do the oldest one, then the second one, because I think you'll get a full picture of everything.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We talk about a lot of good stuff.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just gonna change your life.
2:28
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, here she is.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
2:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So you guys, we're just going to get right into this episode.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Celeste Hallberg is back.
2:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys.
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Third time won't be the last time.
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I somehow have to have her on annually.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the last few time on why you're back.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just get it.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just start there.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm so excited I can't even like contain myself.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm back because I have a book out and I have a book really, truly because of Leslie Logan, because
2:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I have tried to publish this book for so long with traditional publishing and I just got closed or effort closed or for a lot of different reasons, which maybe we do and don't go into.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but Leslie reached out to me.
3:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, Celeste, I have this company.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: They do professional publishing.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: They're really great.
3:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just latched onto it and I did every single thing that they suggested and it was such a beautiful experience.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So the whole point of this is I have a book and I have a book because of you and I want to aggressively love you today for encouraging me to do this.
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I am taking all that love all of that also like this podcast is why you have it cuz I met that guy cuz I interviewed him and I have to like I'm not even off to go back to the archives figure out how I got this person but I interviewed him and I'm like I really like this person like I think he's great like I've written a book and I would have loved this help
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Then because I met him and had him on the pod, we had three of our clients use him.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to see from different perspectives how it was.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So when, and here's a thing, you were always on my feed.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the algorithm would always like send you and I like just love all your stuff.
4:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it like kind of stop because I don't know.
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how the algorithm works.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I happened to look at your stories.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It was your stories.
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And you were sharing this thing.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not normally someone who's like, let me go in on the six minutes.
4:18
[SPEAKER_01]: of a story.
4:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm procrastinating.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, wow, what perfect timing this was because I could have easily missed that whole section.
4:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just want to, I'm just so grateful for Deva, like, I think that like there's divine appointments and divine inventions and a non church way guys, but we're meant to be any to those lives and this book.
4:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I guess in case people don't know who you are, maybe we should do it.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like who are, because we have new listeners, right?
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: How do listeners?
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to want to go back to the other two.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to leave them in the show notes, but can you tell when who you are and what you rock at?
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, absolutely.
4:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So my name is Dr. Celeste.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll look.
4:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a sex educator and I have a PhD in health behaviors with a postgraduate emphasis in sexual behaviors.
5:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I help people a lot of women and lots of couples.
5:10
[SPEAKER_00]: figure out how to make sex better, whether that is they are experiencing pain or they're experiencing shame from growing up in like ultra religious household or they just need like some help through menopause or through after having a baby or things like that.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So I am your very practical sexual health help.
5:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I do.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it, but the practical.
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I say, you know, like, I will say, having lived in LA and going to different sex shops, you don't look like the person who works the section.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to like, like, to stereotype, but there's a, there would be a type that like works in the section, but it's not you.
5:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not me and I just want to be super accessible because not everybody wants to like swing from the chandeliers all the time, you know, a lot of people are out there just struggling to find the time to connect like I cannot tell you how many times I have had a conversation about what to do with the dog.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: in your bedroom when you want to have sex so the dogs not looking over it you were jumping on the bed or like these are the practical applications that we are talking about in sex education in my consult sessions.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah well and because because I think everyone just so overwhelmed like I saw something and someone's stories and they're like went to their friend their nieces like soccer game and she's like looking around just like no wonder no one's having sex like
6:36
[SPEAKER_01]: everybody is at the soccer game and they're exhausted and then get the soccer games they're fighting about to do but you forgot the thing like no what exactly right nobody wants to have sex after this no no why we want to have sex after that exactly right yeah so
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to touch on like there's a lot of different chapters and maybe this is something that your book covers but like there's you know I think when we're younger and like it feels like it's easier to do things maybe and then you get older and like there's more responsibilities and there's more stuff to think about and like it becomes something goes always and then your hormones change so in your book to cover like the journeys that we're all going on is it more specifically for people from the purity culture like what what were you excited to write about?
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
7:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So the book is called, I have the manuscript in print it out right here.
7:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called missionary position.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
7:31
[SPEAKER_00]: A slightly irreverent guide to sex after purity culture.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do take the approach of like you growing up in a
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty culture background in like a high demand religion background evangelical culture things like that, but the book is in four parts.
7:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So like a four part guide to basically healing and you can apply these steps to any issue you are having in sex.
7:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So yes, I do talk quite a bit about the effects of peer culture and how to overcome those effects.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But it can you can apply it to, you know, the trauma you had from a sexual assault, you can apply it to just the doldrums of being married to the same old penis for like twenty years or whatever, you know, like you can apply these steps to anybody.
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically there's four steps and I have made them.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: into archetypal women.
8:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So your first step is your analyst.
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like the nerd.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: She's looking at like, okay, what are we carrying around?
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your backpack look like that you're carrying around?
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it full of shame?
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it full of neglect?
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it full of fear?
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's the analyst.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Your second archetypal woman is your assassin.
8:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So she is taking what the analyst has found and she is just like,
8:48
[SPEAKER_00]: slicing through it, right?
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Use your assassin.
8:51
[SPEAKER_00]: She's your inner assassin.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: She's your deconstruction, basically.
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Your third archetypal woman is your healer.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So after you've done the work of understanding what's in your backpack slicing out what needs to go, then your healer starts.
9:07
[SPEAKER_00]: helping you regenerate your ideas about sex through a gentle re-education.
9:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're re-learning about some things that maybe we have always thought one way about maybe re-learning about the idea of virginity.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We're re-learning about masturbation.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We're re-learning about what great sex is, right?
9:27
[SPEAKER_00]: The healer is our gentle re-education.
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And then our fourth archetypal woman is our explorer.
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like going to try some new thing.
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: She's going to go to the sex toy store.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: She's going to touch herself in a new way and maybe if that's too much, maybe she's going to try sex with the lights on right and so these are the four women they represent four steps.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And within each step, there are some really practical things that you can do to help move you to the next step.
9:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can apply this to any issue you're having insects and get to the other side where you're trying, you're now exploring your trying new things.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all like an archetype, I like that.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And you've been on my mind a lot lately because
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: This is how he's quite interesting right now, like the Tradwife situation.
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, looks really beautiful.
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I have a love, like I have white counterparts.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I love them, they'll clean all the time.
10:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm certainly not capable of doing it, but I'm like, I don't know that I think they're doing a really good job marketing, a beautiful aesthetic without realizing like all the stuff that comes with that, you know, like all the religious stuff that comes with that and how that can harm how we feel about our bodies.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, I
10:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, was raised in purity culture and I didn't think it affected me.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm good, but actually no, actually, I remember like, I'm going to know, oh, because you're like, you think that you're like, oh, I'm on that.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, but that doesn't affect you.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You start to realize even if you weren't raised in church, just the way that public school systems have
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: appropriated some of the modest youth rules like what you're told what you can wear at a school and and how thick this the pink top strap can be and you can't be disruptive even though the boys pants are halfway down their legs and I'm looking at underwell that you know, I think that even for people who weren't raised.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: where they're told like your father has you until you're given away to someone else.
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: There is some level where all of us were affected by like, don't be a distraction.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make sure you don't wear that so you don't look like a certain like you're not attracting bad people, you know, that kind of a thing.
11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I totally agree Leslie.
11:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's very few people in the United States that have a great comprehensive inclusive sex education.
11:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a very few of us.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is changing and hopefully with, you know, we're cycle breaking next in next generations.
11:54
[SPEAKER_00]: American society in general wants to put sex on either end of a spectrum.
11:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to either like don't think about it, don't talk about it.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not for you until you are reaching a certain age or marriage or whatever.
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on the other side is like, why aren't you liberated enough to have all to do all these things?
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like so there's these two like ends of the spectrum and all of us really live in the middle.
12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And none of us is really on either side at all, but we, but it like breaks America's brain to try and think about like living outside of one of those two spectrum.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So I talk about in the book about the non, about the non binary.
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We are not binary people as far as what we want to do in our sex life and figuring out how do you live in the middle area, which we often call gray, but I call glitter.
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's the most fabulous place of lives in the middle in this glittery middle where you get to define your own sex ethic based on your value system on your intuition on your sex education and you get to decide what works best for you and maybe that is boundaries around when you have sex.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome, as long as it's your choice, that's amazing.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that is opening your relationship up and trying swinging or whatever it is.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome as long as it's your decision and not one manipulated by society or cultural values or religious values.
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's I think I like to think about that even this thing it's your right.
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's America.
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's people like I'm in Pilates industry and I said something the other day where I was like, well, you can say that, but it doesn't like there's also the idea that we can prepare people for an exercise, right?
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And this person like went off on me and I was like, so you need to understand that what you're mad about me is what you're doing here.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Second, lies is not black or white.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: this or that.
13:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of gray.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of glitter.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Like glitter.
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like because our bodies are different and where we are in our practice, where we are in our life, maybe what season we're in, maybe you're a season of young children.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be very different, but they're wanting and ready for and have the capacity to take on versus their teenagers and have a house and really don't care where you are versus you don't have kids at all.
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's all these different
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: seasons.
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we are like, oh, this is how I've always liked it.
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is how I have to keep liking it.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so wise.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Leslie, that's so wise.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there are a lot of, and we talked about this in our last, in our last podcast together, a lot of the similarities between what happens in sex and what happens in like a lot of work out space or a lot of space as far as how we view our bodies and what we feel is like right or
14:37
[SPEAKER_00]: What we feel is appropriate, I guess, for our bodies, like, I should be wanting this because that's what I did when I was twenty seven, or I should be looking like this because that's what I looked like when I was, whatever, thirty or whatever.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's lots of room to allow ourselves compassion to grow as we grow in our sex life and our workouts and in whatever.
15:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Expecting your sex life to look the same when you are twenty and thirty and fifty and seventy is not helpful for you.
15:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And so allowing it to mature as you mature is the most helpful thing that you can do for yourself.
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when it comes to your sex life.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, keep talking about this.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll come up.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to go back to like the journey of this book because this book has been in you for a really long time.
15:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think whether or not people want to write a book, you can insert goal, whatever your goal is because we will all in trying to get something out into the world or get something that we desire done.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: pit roadblocks so you hit some roadblocks can we talk about how many years of roadblocks can we talk about what you like what kind of roadblocks were hitting and like how did you keep going because quite honestly I'm surprised you even told the story you know maybe like I'm surprised you didn't go okay well that's that the door the door has been slammed shut
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I really appreciate you asking this because I know sex is really fun to talk about, but this is like my personal like life long dream is to have a book and it feels really I feel really seen when you ask about the process of it.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I think about the be it.
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, be it to you see it bold executable.
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm going to this right intrinsic targeted.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think about my word for this year was bold.
16:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was like my my like I got to be more bold.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say what I want to say.
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be making myself smaller anymore.
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: The story behind the book, I have always thought about writing a book.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I myself am a slow reader.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't read very fast and I grow a long long time.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was dumb because I don't read very fast.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: which is silly when I think about it now, but all growing up, I was slower than all of my friends reading, I was frustrating to read.
17:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm still a good student, I still did all of the things that I needed to do, but I just took time, I just took more time to write to read all of those things.
17:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in part, that's what made me get a PhD because I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't dumb.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Turns out I'm not dumb.
17:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to go up my own pace.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And so one of the things that you talk about a lot on the podcast is like, how do you prioritize yourself?
17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I prioritize myself by allowing myself to go up my own pace.
17:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I can read as slow as I need to read.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I can answer emails as slow as I need to answer emails.
17:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's frustrating to me and other people, but at the end of the day, like, it's honestly who I am.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just consider it and slow and thoughtful.
17:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've learned to like that about myself instead of hate that about myself.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So the idea of writing a book was really like tantalizing to me, but I had a lot of insecurities about my ability to actually do it.
18:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd written a dissertation, which is, in my opinion, harder because it's boring.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that's one of the reasons why I like stopped going to school.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I can't write another boy in paper.
18:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, like my mom didn't even read it.
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, congratulations.
18:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like collecting dust, right?
18:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had done that.
18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I thought, like, well, if I'd written a dissertation, it just take you just take it chunk of the time.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I can surely write a book.
18:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So in two thousand and let's see, two thousand and sixteen.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Nate and I was like, Nate, I really want to write a book.
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go to a writer's conference.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's like, great.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, found one in Hawaii.
18:41
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, even better.
18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I love I love going to goal and attack right off can be in a place you want to go.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly right.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We ended up getting a tent.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like these glamping tents on Maui that you can get and it's just like really fun.
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like on the beach, but you still have like sort of a bathroom, you know?
19:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But so we're like, we need to do it on cheap because we're kind of broke.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like got these glamping tents and I went to these writers conference during the day and Nate did whatever during the day was at this writing conference and it was through hey house and there was a contest.
19:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you went to the writers conference and you wrote a proposal you could enter it in and they were going to pick three writers to give a book deal to.
19:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is me being so sure of myself.
19:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yes, I've spent a lot of time feeling insecure about my reading and writing, but for the most part, my whole life, I have been like with no good reason confident.
19:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm just like, I don't know, confident.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's cool.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so many people don't inherently have that.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to kind of
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: have that and then use it is a wonderful it's a wonderful thing yeah i just i just was like no i'm gonna get this you know i'm gonna write this proposal people are gonna love it i'm gonna get this competition anyway box for short did not win any and i thought this is going towards you one i'm so excited when she won it no you can even get like a second look i automatically does assume you're gonna slice i'm just like she won
20:20
[SPEAKER_00]: This is about closed doors less okay.
20:23
[SPEAKER_00]: That's through.
20:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did not win.
20:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I was for sure.
20:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to win did not win.
20:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Not even like a hello, right.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, Oh, I made any of the work a little harder.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had this whole proposal.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: My book was like looking back.
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm so glad that I didn't win.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: My book was called sexual wealth.
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, that's, that's not you.
20:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not me.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, it was like sex through finance, bro, language or something.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was just like, this is a terrible idea.
20:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But the spark was there, like I really wanted to write a book.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was twenty sixteen.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of held on to it, thought about it, kind of put it in a drawer for a while.
21:02
[SPEAKER_00]: In twenty nineteen, I got on a fairly large podcast with Jen Hatmaker.
21:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's an author and she
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: does a lot of work in like the ex evangelical space or had started down that road.
21:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got on this podcast through just like pitching back out on this podcast.
21:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty big podcast and not long after that a person from Harper Collins, like a division of Harper Collins reached out to me and said, hey, have you ever considered writing a book?
21:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So the publisher reached out to me, which is very unusual.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, that is cool though.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
21:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very unusual.
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually you are pitching to publishers.
21:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So they heard me on the podcast and they were like, hey, you know, we're interested in use of meeting up proposal.
21:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm freaking out.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is so exciting, right?
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I realize I probably need representation.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I get a literary agent.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of shop around and get a literary agent.
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: She's amazing, Rachelle.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I end up pitching my proposal.
21:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I work it out, you know, I update it from sexual wealth to something else.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I update it, I pitch it, and they're pretty slow.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: The publishing industry is so slow.
22:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know this.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know this.
22:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So slow.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I have watched too many of my friends write books.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so great.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm proud of all of them.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But also the ones I've gone to additional publishing, it is slow.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like molasses most faster, you guys.
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, like just don't bet on.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't hold your breath.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, it's the slowest process of all time.
22:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, OK, I, you know, they reached out to me.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm here in my very confidence base, like, oh, no, they're going to.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're going to shoot.
22:38
[SPEAKER_00]: They reached out to me.
22:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Why wouldn't they choose me at this point?
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I have like, fifteen hundred followers.
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to see like, I have no platform, right?
22:44
[SPEAKER_00]: They still have a very small platform, but a bunch of really engaged lovely humans.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really sure they're going to choose me.
22:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, months and months and months later, they get back to me and they're like, yes, we want, it's literally like, I don't know, six months later.
23:03
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, we want to offer you a contract and we want to go on a contract.
23:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Just small, it's a twenty thousand dollar contract.
23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to pay me ten thousand upfront and then ten thousand book publishers.
23:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, great.
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to pay out my agent to you.
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm coming home was like eight thousand five hundred dollars.
23:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to get one dime to like, yeah, I mean, that you got anything because it's not, it's not always normal that even a first time writer gets anything until the book sells.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was thrilled.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thrilled.
23:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So I start writing my little heart out.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't actually give me anything a contractor anything until my, my first draft is due.
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So I turn to my first draft and then they sign me.
23:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So I write the whole book without a contract.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So submit the first draft.
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like March of twenty twenty.
23:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So keep that and put to context.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Things are, things are, things are going on.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Things are, things are going on.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: What's happening?
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So I get my first round of edits back.
24:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still super excited.
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And then in July, my agent calls to me and she's like, I hate to have this conversation with you, but your book has been orphaned, your editor left the company and nobody else wants to pick it up.
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is like.
24:25
[SPEAKER_00]: In the big scheme of things, like it was the way it needed to work out, because they were already giving me feedback.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a W that imprint, and I'm not trying to slander any publishing industry, but this is just what happened to me, right?
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I was getting feedback of like, oh, I don't know if you should like go that hard or I don't know if you should.
24:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You might alienate readers if you talk about religion in this way or, you know, yeah, this is going to lose your Catholic audience.
24:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm not, I'm not attractive.
24:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Make the Catholics happy.
24:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I interviewed, I don't know if it was in my interview, but when I was talking with Danielle and Astinik Young,
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: who read uncultured.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: She was only allowed to talk about three sexual like misconduct things that happened to her and not even the worst ones.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually like got rid.
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they were like, and you can only talk like she had to, she's been very vocal about it.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, because she was talking about God and all these things and like, like, yeah, you can't really
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: talk about that and then she was like, you know, saying that she got raped in military and they're like, so we don't, like, maybe we just do only one of those.
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, very, and so in she was with the publisher and she got published, but she, it's a watered down version of her story because what apparently breeders would be able to handle the true thing.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you know, like, how is this a change of the world?
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know what's went on.
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, yeah.
25:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I heard I heard that kind of from a different places like, oh, yeah, I had to like say this instead of that or whatever, and I'm like, yeah, that's a little bit happening to me.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had written it with the understanding like this is for a still Christian audience.
26:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I understood this.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It was with a Christian publisher.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, that's fine.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like as a sex educator, you have to be able to be fluid enough to write to the audience that's in front of you.
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: When I go speak, sometimes I'm in front of really conservative audiences and I adapt my language.
26:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
26:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay to do.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still, I still feel helpful.
26:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I still feel like I'm pushing the envelope, but in a way that feels the most accessible for the audience in front of me.
26:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm okay adjusting
26:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But also like I didn't I didn't want to water it down so much that I feel like it wasn't me.
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, lost my contract in July first of twenty twenty which was and that whole thing.
26:47
[SPEAKER_00]: the whole next two years was really difficult.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband is in emergency medicine position.
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God.
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just a real hard time in the family.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, lots, lots going on.
26:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of stress.
26:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a worry.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You're afraid.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so like, you know, so we live where we live and not everyone believe we're going through certain things.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's even more stressful.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: The book, the book.
27:11
[SPEAKER_00]: hit a wall, hit a wall, and probably had to find time, but I was really just really sad.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Michelle my agent was like, okay, we're just going to like pick it back up.
27:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We have this proposal.
27:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a book written.
27:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it'll be easier for another publisher to pick us up.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we start like pitching to these other publishing companies.
27:31
[SPEAKER_00]: She has all these connections.
27:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she's pitching pitching pitching.
27:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing's landing.
27:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm getting good feedback back.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, your platforms too small.
27:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
27:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I started trying to grow it.
27:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's when the Instagram was a little easier to grow.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's super hard to grow.
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: started growing it.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I went from to fifteen hundred to twenty thousand, you know, over time.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Because other twenty thousand, like those are not bought, you know, no, yeah.
27:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a hard follow.
27:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.
28:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I have like, you know, dildos in my videos.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I get that I'm not an easy follow.
28:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, and I'm, you know,
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The shadow banned all the time and I get all these notifications that my stuff is not being shown to new audiences.
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that I'm getting that I'm a hard follow, but that's what publishers want.
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They want you to have a ready to buy platform, which I get.
28:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to make money.
28:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But I got a lot of that feedback.
28:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a lot of, oh, this is a little, it's a little too much for us as a Christian publisher.
28:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, I get that.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it was kind of like this line for non non Christian publishers, like we don't really, we don't really talk about religion that much.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're not really talking about sex that much, right?
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're like too much of the different things for the different people.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really rough because it's like,
28:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll never be everything for anyone, but to not feel like you fit somewhere when you have something to say that's hard.
29:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it is really hard.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's what people needed.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's because it's again, it's the glitter.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the middle.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I don't fit into either of these spaces.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of like, look, it's more in the middle, right?
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was the feedback I was getting and finally we did that for five years.
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm twenty twenty to twenty twenty five October of twenty twenty five.
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Rochelle had a call with me and she's like, I mean, I have nowhere else to go.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: This has to be the end of it.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But bless her.
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: She did the best that she had and I'm forever grateful for her.
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was it and that was that's where we're caught up to where you saw my story and I was like just sharing with my audience like I had an unhappy ending and I'm going to sit in my sadness right now and just tell you like life isn't always monkey dory for a sex educator for anybody for.
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: for you for me, and this is where I am right now.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm pissed and I'm sad and the end, right?
29:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then sweet Leslie shows up in my dance and she's like, they have this great idea for you.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, and so she who sent me this information for this company.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a call with I think, Jake, who you.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jake.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a call with Jake.
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me tell you, working with him has been, and I'm not getting paid for any of this, right?
30:14
[SPEAKER_00]: To for B.I.B.
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But working with him has been so healing, so much agency in the process.
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to say exactly what I wanted to say.
30:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to go at the pace that I wanted to go like it was just incredible.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So is this book like a new book?
30:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what you're pitching around.
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the glitter you really wanted to write.
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a glitter I really wanted to write.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally different.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love that.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, like, so first of all, you guys did hear five years, five years.
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're going on, you know, like so, yeah, five years.
30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And then now big, but here's the other thing, going through all of those things, you got feedback and made tweaks and did these things.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So then when you're writing the book that we're going to all get to read, can we wait to read it?
31:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the best version of a book that can ever be because it's really not your first book.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You've written so many.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm so sorry.
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You're so right.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And over the course of the years, I changed as we should.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope I look back in five years and go like, yeah, I'm a different new person from who wrote this book, but I was different and I was more comfortable.
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like straight up saying, I'm not a Christian anymore.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was more comfortable saying, like, is this a religious book?
31:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because we talk about religion, do I identify as Christian?
31:35
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because of these reasons.
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I think we could learn some stuff from the Bible?
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I think we're gonna talk about the Bible?
31:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think we have to because we're talking about purity culture.
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't, you know, certainly not in twenty twenty was I willing to be like, yeah, I'm not a Christian.
31:49
[SPEAKER_01]: but so much stuff happened between twenty twenty twenty twenty twenty five yeah that just took me right on out yeah yeah no I I hear you on that I and you know like I have a brother in seminary school so it's very interesting around here and I had to said you know if all the Christians in the world actually did what Jesus said
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: like we would have solved child poverty and immigration and health care.
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I've had a family members farm well, if everyone just came to know and I'm like, no, no, that's actually not what the Bible says.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the problem.
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I've read it.
32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I, where I am in my life, which five years ago, I was definitely not, is just like, I'm frustrated that
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: A book, any book, has controlled people in such a way that's affecting even their sex lives, but also just lives, the lives of people who didn't even read the book.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where I get upset.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to have religious talk on this podcast, but that's where I'm coming from as a person with it.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I've a really hard time with it because
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a loving world.
33:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And with all the people who say they are, you know, believers, it should be, it should be a very loving world.
33:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so I think it's really, I'd love, thank you for sharing the story.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: This is great.
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I told, I just want to affirm what you're saying because I think the, the maiden bottom line for me was it has harmed more than it has helped.
33:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Has it helped?
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some really beautiful ways in which Christianity has helped, but has it harmed more than it has helped?
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely believe yes.
33:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, that was the final straw.
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I think Jesus was cool?
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it was a radical non-white dude who did really amazing things that we can learn from, right?
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I believe he saved me for my sins, not really.
33:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's where I landed and I was able to say this in this book, which I would never have been able to do before.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll also thank you for saying it with us, because I also just wanted to see it's a really interesting thing to say.
33:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Like my husband and I like go like to say out loud.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very, I don't want to speak for him because like, maybe it was a different, but like it's really hard to say out loud when you're like, I don't believe anymore and you're like,
34:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, it feels really weird.
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does, but because it's such an identity that you're raised with and I think going back to like that purity culture that your book is about and by the way, everyone, like, I just want to say like, even if you haven't been in that, it's, I think that read about those things really helps me, it makes, it helps make the world make sense to me.
34:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I wrote a tea levines book a well-trained wife and I was like, oh,
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it now.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I get why they're acting like this.
34:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I get why they're thinking this because like otherwise you're just like looking at people like their aliens and you're like, I don't understand.
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So I also think it can be really impactful to to read just to understand what are what are people thinking?
34:52
[SPEAKER_01]: What are they going through?
34:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it harder for some people to have great sex or want to have great sex or feel comfortable having great sex than for other people?
35:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I totally agree with you.
35:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so interesting.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I've most of couples that I talk to.
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of them are straight couples, heterosexual couples.
35:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times, the woman in the partnership will talk about sex in one way.
35:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And the man in the partnership will talk about sex in a different way.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was just like, I just don't get it.
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: If it feels good, why wouldn't you want to do it?
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we kind of like deconstruct and explain like, well, she's been taught that sex is dangerous her whole life.
35:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And so her nervous system feels on alert even when there are good things in the future to come with that sexual experience.
35:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So to have to overcome this idea of fear and danger in your nervous system just to get to the beginning of a rousal is a whole different ball game than you who starts at a rousal and because it feels very regulating like I lean into a rousal because it feels regulating as a straight man who's brazed in America.
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like just being able to like, if you're a dude who picks up this book, and I hope you understand the women in your life a little bit better, even if they didn't grow up in purity culture, most of us grow up with the idea that sex is going to harm us.
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, like, yeah, it's like even if you weren't raised that way, you will also as a woman or raise like be fearful of any bad.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: any man who's coming near you, walking up next to you, like all these different things.
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it is very difficult to just like let that go.
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like it's like, oh, it's Halloween.
36:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I can get talk candy from a stranger now.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is this a work like that?
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like it is, especially because it's like your whole life, these just little things that are being told.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's great for men to read.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's such a, that's so wonderful way to think about who this book could be helpful for.
36:46
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
36:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to take a brief detour because you said something on your Instagram a bit ago that truly like blew my mind and also made so much sense, right?
36:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You said if you're faking an orgasm, you're funny.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's a fun response.
37:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So can we talk about what a fun response is, and that a little bit, because I think too many women do that.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I only admit that because I have friends to talk about it, and I'm like, I mean, I just wouldn't just would be like, it's not working today, sir.
37:19
[UNKNOWN]: Right, but up.
37:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah.
37:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've done it when I was experiencing really painful sex when I first got married because of vaginismus, because of beauty culture.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I did anything to try and get out of the situation, right?
37:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so a fond response is something that we do in response to something traumatic.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: When something traumatic happens, we go into fight, fight, freeze or bond.
37:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So, fun is I'm losing, you know, this circumstance or person in my life.
37:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there are no negative consequences.
37:57
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so when we have fake orgasms and a lot of women have a lot of guilt around doing this and this is why I posted that because I want you to feel not guilty about this.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want you to do it forever, but I want you to understand why you're doing this.
38:15
[SPEAKER_00]: We fawn response an orgasm when we feel overwhelming pressure to have an orgasm.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: When we feel overwhelming pressure to have an orgasm, it's coming from a fragile man who cannot handle or has put too much value on your ability to come as a validation for his ability to be great.
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I put too much pressure on your ability to become is a validation of my ability to be good or great.
38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So part of the work has to become men saying like my validation is not wrapped up in her ability to come without saying I still can't give her pleasure.
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of, it's nuanced.
39:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But I really want women to understand, when you're fawning, when you're faking an orgasm, you are essentially doing harm reduction.
39:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want the negative consequences of his fragility.
39:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will fake it.
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't have to deal with that.
39:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That is easier for me.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: That is harm reduction.
39:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, and one would hope that a conversation or few could be had like here's what's going on and here's how you don't want you to feel and hear like yeah, that's probably where you come in.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a really delicate situation.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I do have lots of times people come in and the women in the partnership will be like, hey, you know, this is what's going on.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I want us together to come, but at the sessions, but like, I don't know how to tell him like it's been years and I've been thinking for years, right?
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, no problem.
40:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to, I don't believe full transparency is always kind.
40:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe in honesty.
40:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily believe in full transparency.
40:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can, you can be really unkind with full transparency, but you can still be honest.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, hey.
40:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to experience a little bit more sensation when we have sex.
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we work on some new techniques?
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I show you how I masturbate?
40:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we make it slower?
40:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can feel something different.
40:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to make my orgasm stronger.
40:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
40:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can be.
40:40
[SPEAKER_00]: clear with what we want going forward without being like, you know what, I think that for the last twelve years, right?
40:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's on you for not sitting for not saying something as well.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that doesn't like it can only be.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not anyone's fault, but also like they can't change if they don't know.
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're so brilliant.
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You're so amazing.
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, when is the book coming out?
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: When do I get to read it?
41:04
[SPEAKER_01]: When can I pre-order?
41:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you are so cute.
41:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So by the time this drops a little, I'll be out and we'll send links to you to upload it.
41:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But it comes out on June tenth.
41:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's right around the corner.
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm in a pre-order.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a, or I'll order on June tenth so we can make you a number one best-selling author.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We get whatever we're going to do.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can write my, my, my, my authenticated review after buying it.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: All the things I can get.
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, I'll take it with me on tour.
41:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
41:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so, like, I just, like, I'm choosing so hard because I'm so excited about it.
41:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I re-read it again this morning just, like, as a skim to look at all the layout on the pages.
41:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just so proud of it.
41:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so proud of it.
41:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if it finally is here, I'm so proud of it.
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if it finally is here, I'm so proud of it.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're going to take a brief break.
41:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to find out if we can find you follow you and work with you.
41:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Doctors, let's all book, where do you hang out?
41:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You sit in Instagram, is there anywhere else?
42:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What links, what instrument handles, where can they go to buy the book?
42:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Is on your website, all the things.
42:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the book is on the website, but you can buy it either the most easily on Amazon.
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do, please leave a review.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be really helpful.
42:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can go to my website to get into Pleasure Club.
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my monthly subscription where we have a sex ad session every month and a book club session every month.
42:22
[SPEAKER_00]: We flip between fiction and nonfiction books, which is really, really fun.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, fun.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Brad and I got into the, of course, like everybody in the world, we got into the, the drag and situation.
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, fourth being the second one, the third one.
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys, we actually read read the first and second one to listen to the third one.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go back through all three.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I recommend it with your partner.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a great.
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: She writes good sex stories.
42:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't, it's not super cheesy.
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really like them.
42:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that.
42:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this revolution, I mean, people have been reading romance novels forever, but I think it's really healing.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually wrote about this in my newsletter this week, reading, sexing through a female lens is really, really healing and really helpful because it
43:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It gives you the confidence to be like, oh, I can ask for that or I can wait for that where I can't ask to slow down or speed up or whatever and I can expect somebody to listen and garner consent and all those things.
43:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So reading sex scenes through the female lens or listening to them, I think is very, very helpful.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, I got distracted from your book club.
43:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's do website again.
43:32
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your candle?
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find me at Dr. Celestialbrook on Instagram, on YouTube, and my website, Dr. Celestialbrook.com.
43:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I just had a whole mind.
43:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking about sexings written through the female language, and I couldn't go back.
43:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Dr. Celestialbrook is where you can find me almost anywhere.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: DR Celestialbrook.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but yeah, sorry, Evan A. D. H. D. Brain.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, bold executable intrinsic or target steps people can take to feed till they see it.
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you have for us this time?
44:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, something we talked about already earlier, but the way that I am best executable is actually just to go out my own pace, you know, it's slow.
44:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that.
44:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I really do love that.
44:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also, you mentioned like the prioritization of self.
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the ways you did it.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to acknowledge like when you sat,
44:29
[SPEAKER_01]: in your car and you shared that something had come to an end.
44:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That is also a way of prioritizing yourself because you're feeling your feelings and you're also letting people know that you're feeling these feelings, like we don't have to like pretend around people.
44:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So just thank you for being you and always for you are always in the word gets misused, but you are so authentic and so authentic and just I really feel like it's been so fun of the past five years to watch you
44:57
[SPEAKER_01]: grow with what you're doing and how you're educating people and how you're supporting people.
45:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm just so grateful to be on your journey.
45:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to read your book.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so stoked for you.
45:06
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the coolest thing.
45:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And you guys, how do you use these tips in your life?
45:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Please tag Dr. Sus Hallbrook.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Send this to a friend.
45:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Here is the deal.
45:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Not all friendships talk about sex.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the things you can do is just send the podcast or the book.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to have the kind.
45:24
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not there yet, that's okay.
45:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think like the more the more women here about all these different things that could be glitter, the more life we're living and the more fun we're having, the more we feel seen.
45:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So just thank you so much for being new doctors.
45:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all Brooke.
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Leslie, you are the reason this book exists.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot thank you enough.
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me in your life and on your podcast and someday someday we will hug each other in real life.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we will.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll happen.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this winter tour.
45:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel it in me.
45:53
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you guys, you know what to do?
45:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, until you see it.
45:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I got for this episode of the Beatelier Sea of Podcasts.
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review.
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts.
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Beat Pot on Instagram.
46:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to know more about you.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it.
46:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Help us and others Beatelier Sea it.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Have an awesome day.
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Be it till you see it as a production of the Bloom Podcast Network.
46:28
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at plus one three one oh nine oh five five three four or send a DM on Instagram at be it pod.
46:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.
46:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It is transcribed, produced, and edited by the epic team at disenio.co.
46:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Our theme music is by Ellie at Apex production music, and our branding by designer and artist John Franco Chilfe.
46:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.
47:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website.
47:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And finally, the Meredith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.