Latest / Pop Culture Junkie® / Television Spinoffs: The Ones That Worked and the Ones That Didn't with Hayley the Brave

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Television Spinoffs: The Ones That Worked and the Ones That Didn't with Hayley the Brave · Pop Culture Junkie®

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[Music]
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Welcome to a very special episode of the Pop Culture Junkie Podcast. I'm Olivia,
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joined here in the studio by a very familiar voice. Hey guys, Hayley the Brave, good to be back on the podcast.
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Oh, feels so good, having you back. And we are joined electronically from the heavens, from her lovely bed with a broken foot.
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Our other junkie?
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Shauna from the heavens makes it sound like I died via broken foot.
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I got your foot dead, so it just fell right through my broken foot.
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Yes, at least I went to heaven. That was a brother.
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I mean, we all be so blessed to be haunted by Shauna.
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Oh my God, I'm going to haunt you guys so hard.
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I think I would be entertaining if you haunted me.
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If I die soon via broken foot, I promise to haunt both of you and it'll be so great.
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That's all I need in my life.
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Episodes over.
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All right, well, see you next time on another hit.
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Yes, yes. So we are blessed this week with Haley joining us again.
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So to kick off this very special episode, what have you been obsessed with this week, Haley?
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I think this week I've been obsessed with what everyone has been obsessed with,
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which is Taylor Swift's new album, The Tortured Poets Department.
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Taylor Swift's released a new album.
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Shana's brother and his also been on Nura Rock, apparently, but no, I love you immediately,
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just because we're going to talk about Taylor Swift.
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All right.
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So initial thoughts on the Tortured Poets Department.
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Okay, so initial thoughts.
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I consumed the anthology like front to back, non-stop.
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And I think that was to my detriment because it, at that point, I think things started to kind of sound similar.
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Very similar, yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I had to go back and relisten to it.
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I also did not realize that Matt Haley was such a big deal.
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I, it was the most unexpected thing ever for it to be like, oh, it's going to be a Joe breakup album.
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And then you're like, wait, this plays about Matty Healy.
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Like, what are you talking about?
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I thought it was really crazy to be together.
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So Matty Healy and Taylor Swift were Tumblr, famous back in 2014.
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They were like, will they won't they get together?
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Like Matt Healy wore a 1989 shirt and then Taylor Swift wore a 1975 shirt.
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And that was kind of like all we knew.
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And then jump to this summer, she starts dating Matty Healy.
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The Swifties lose their mind.
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They sign this petition saying that they don't want her to date him.
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And it was just how that earned a little.
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Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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And they ended up like not being together.
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Obviously now she's with Travis, but it was a fantastic.
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It was, yeah, that hated them.
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And so now there's this new lens of like, oh, okay, maybe this has been kind of happening throughout.
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And Taylor has a lot of themes of like cheating in her desorografie and being a cheater.
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And it's like, oh, was it with Matty Healy?
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Yeah.
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Was Folklore and ever more fictional.
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Guilty as sin implies that she was in my eyes fantasizing about being with Matty Healy.
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She was still with someone else.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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He's not even all that like, yeah, he's a Ratty Healy is his name to me.
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I'm not a 1975 girl though.
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So I do like the 1975.
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I don't feel any type of way about Joe or Matty or Travis or whoever.
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I don't really care.
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I do think it's very funny that and people are arguing about this on the internet.
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But I think people can argue with a wall because I think most of the songs are about Maddie Haley.
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Yeah.
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But I think that's just because it's easier to write a song about something toxic.
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Yeah.
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Then it is about something healthy.
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Yeah.
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I agree.
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I think if you look backwards, she wrote a lot of like breakup songs on folklore and ever
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more and even midnight.
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But we just like didn't know that the relationship was falling apart.
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So I think a really interesting commentary of this album is as much as it's like, oh, this
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person was by muse.
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I think it's a lot more about her grappling with fame, losing herself within it in a way
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and allowing people who she is loved, letting public opinion and the pressure of fame get to
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that.
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So I think it's much more commentary about that.
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And she tweeted something that I saw.
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Is that what it's called?
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Re-exed.
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No one calls it that.
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We keep calling it Twitter in the sense.
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She re-exed tweeted something about commentary from the fans like Summer Viewer that was like,
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"The fans really need to stop trying to dissect every two words that she says and just kind of
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listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is rather than just stalking and harassing
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and being psychotic, honestly.
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I do agree that I think some of the songs are about the pressures of fame."
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Yeah.
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I also agree.
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I did have a few songs in the album that I really enjoy.
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Okay.
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Tell us.
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So I like Florida a lot.
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I was listening to that.
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I'm going to tell her.
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I'm so depressed.
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I act like it's my birthday every day.
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It's my favorite.
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Oh, good.
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I'm telling Olivia.
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My husband loves Taylor Swift too.
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And he came to my office the other day and he's like, "So I was listening to you because you
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were so good heart."
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You really need to listen to the lyrics.
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Oh my God.
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Okay.
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Just think about it.
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You just got to think about it.
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I think about it a lot.
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I love him.
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So my favorite line from that song is I cry a lot, but I'm her super doctor.
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It's an art.
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It's an art.
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I think that is more so than the man more so than I think almost any song she's written.
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That to me is like the female empowerment anthem.
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Because all of us have gone, have had to get out of bed, go to work, whatever it is deal
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with family, deal with friends, like dealing with broken legs.
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When you're struggling, yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah.
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It's so empowering.
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Yeah.
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I should have fake smile on your face.
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Yeah.
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And the last line when she's like, try and come for my job.
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Yeah.
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Oh, good.
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So interesting.
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This does feel like a fourth wall breaking album.
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I don't know if you kind of notice that within some of the songs.
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She is singing and like telling a story and then she comes and like says something directly
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to you like it.
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But daddy, I love him.
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It's like, I'm having his baby.
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No, I'm not.
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But you should see your face right now.
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So it's very interesting how she is kind of playing with this, this fourth wall in a lot of
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the songs.
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I think some, I saw this on TikTok.
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So this is not an original thought, but it's really kind of stuck with me.
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Listening to this album and starting it, it feels very much like an album for the fans
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where it's like, if you're a peripheral person, you're just not going to get it.
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Like I think a lot of it is you know a little bit about her songs and how things connect.
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But yeah, but I wouldn't say it's going to be a bunch of songs I would hear on the radio.
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I agree.
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And they do get a little repetitive.
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31 songs is crazy.
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Yeah.
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And that's going to happen anytime you release that much music.
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The songs do start to kind of sound very similar to each other.
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But those highlights that really hit you.
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When they hit you, they hit you.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I think standout tracks for me, the tortured post department like the title track.
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I really, really like.
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I think it's just the one that I can't get out of my head.
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It just sticks with me.
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And then the one that kind of grew on me that I didn't like the first couple times I listened.
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But now I'm kind of obsessed with is the black dog.
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So good.
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The starting line reference.
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Yeah.
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Every emo kid was like, I know that.
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I'm like, you are an elder millennial.
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Thank you guys.
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Yes.
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So I think if I had to pick a first release, my top songs are down bad and so long.
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I love the album.
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I love the album.
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Yeah.
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Half would be the bolter and the prophecy.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay.
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Nice.
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But you can tell that Aaron, Aaron Desner is very much on the back half.
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Jack Antonov is very much on the first half.
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Yes.
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Where you get those synth beats.
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A lot of those are Jack Antonov.
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I really liked it.
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I think 31 songs is crazy.
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So my favorites may change.
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But yeah.
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You know.
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Yeah.
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I'm a big fan of Jack Antonov and Bleachers.
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Lana.
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Yeah.
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Bleachers is so good.
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Lana.
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Yeah.
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Lord.
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I have now started to, so since I was listening, this is so dumb of me, but whatever.
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Here I am.
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So I have a very long commute to work.
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And I decided to make a playlist where it just alternates a Taylor song and a 1975 song
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in a Taylor song.
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Oh, my goodness.
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You're probably finding so many parallels because it is actually true.
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Because if that theory is true, if there's any validity to the idea that they have at least
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been attracted to each other, like had kind of an on again, off again thing, then there
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are clearly references in Matt's lyrics about similar, like wanting someone to be
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someone and not being able to have them or, oh, I like you, but you've got a boyfriend.
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Like, yeah, there's multiple lyrics like that.
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So does that have an interesting lens?
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Because we did a little bit of an episode about this like secret timing with the Gayler.
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And if it really was this Maddie and her illicit affair that kept going on throughout all
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of her dysogory from 1989 to now, that adds a lot of information.
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It's very, very interesting.
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But yeah, I've just been thinking in Taylor Swift Coates, like someone will say a word and
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I'm just like Taylor Swift Coates.
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Taylor Swift Coates.
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And you know, that's what I love about being one of our fans.
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Like all the theories that I see him just like, you are so smart.
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It's, you know, I will say that being on the internet and engaging with fans is like a crucial
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part of being a fan of anything in 20, 20, 20, totally agree.
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Yes.
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I love it when your nation is kind of overcome with being a fan of something.
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Like, those are some of my favorite kind of pop culture moments, I think, is when we all
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become, I mean, there's so much shit going on in the world, right?
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But for that, it was one brief, you know, a couple of weeks or whatever, we're all obsessed
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with Pokemon Go.
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We're all obsessed with Taylor Swift, the Tiger King.
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You know, like Tiger King.
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I'm not saying it's a fever dream.
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Yeah.
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And like, all we talk about around the water cooler and then we, you know, it kind of goes into
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the next pop culture moment.
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But I love that.
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I love those moments.
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I agree.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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I agree.
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I love that.
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Well, alien, I have the same word obsessed with.
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So Sean, what have you been obsessed with this week?
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Okay.
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So I binge the entirety of a Netflix show that is going to be sitting with me for a long
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time.
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I'm not going to wear it bad way.
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You know, I, in a good way, but it is, okay, trigger warning for sexual assault coming out
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good.
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Yeah.
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And it's for warning to watch this show if that's a theme that you want to stay away from.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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The show is called Baby Rain Deer.
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Okay.
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Wow.
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It's a baby reindeer.
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Yeah.
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Literally a plastic and a more.
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So when you see this on like the news streaming on Netflix and you're like, what the hell is
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like baby rain dares as a show about like Santa the back story of Santa's right.
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Oh, it's a British drama thriller mini series.
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It's created by stars.
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This guy named Richard dad, but he's playing a comedian.
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Well, an attempted comedian slash Barton.
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Your name Donnie Dunn.
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Okay.
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I mean, is telling the story about he was a bartender in his 20s gave this woman a cup
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of tea when she came into his bar and was crying that she couldn't have any money.
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She seemed kind of down on her luck.
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So you said, you know, it's on the house.
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And from there turned into an extreme stalking situation.
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She stalks him.
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She starts thinking that his friendliness, a misinterpreting it or, you know, kindness
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and sexual and flirtation like sexual interest.
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She sends him hundreds of emails a day.
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It's all kind of lightly based on a true story that this creator Richard Goud went through.
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He did come out and say later that a lot of this was dramatized and fictionalized and he
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really doesn't want to say like who is fucking soccer was a goal.
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Breaks.
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Reinvigorator.
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Yeah.
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But you watch this show and Donnie makes a lot of very questionable decisions where you're
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like bro, just go to the fucking police.
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Like just do this.
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Just, you know, do that.
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And you don't understand for episodes why he's kind of putting up with it and then hire
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backstory episode about how he was definitely salted and raped by like a TV producer who said
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that he could make his career.
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And he's really like, well, if I, if I did report him, why am I going to report her, you
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know?
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Yeah.
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That's an interesting message just to say.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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By the end of the show, you really realize, I guess spoiler alert, I do recommend.
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I don't want anyone to watch it after this glorious, serious show.
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It's number one on Netflix right now.
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It's really well done.
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You know, there's not much good things on Netflix right now.
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So that's enough indication.
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That's what you're subscribing to.
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Going to the police, she gets arrested.
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They get, he gets a restrained order against her.
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Okay.
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But really the show is about abuse and trauma and how people react to abuse and trauma.
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Yeah.
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And his, his character, his inner monologue, it's based on a play.
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Okay.
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That's what you do.
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Okay.
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You should have led with that.
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Interesting.
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So it's like a celebrated piece of media.
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So many media based on a play about drama.
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Yeah.
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It made me play about trauma.
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No ring gear.
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Earn fall.
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Maybe, okay, maybe they didn't like handle it well in the remake.
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Because I feel like if it would go from a play to a show, I think it's very well done.
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And I will also say that depending on how a person feels about watching drama, twice
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or twice, I feel like this show could either make you go, oh my god, I totally get that.
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I totally get why he's blaming himself for these things.
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Yeah.
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I totally get why he's struggling.
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Like, we know that he's making the wrong decisions and we know we're screaming at the
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TV, but you get it because he's going through some of the trauma.
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So it's really well done.
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I would suggest it.
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Go in, you know, knowing that it's going to be a little uneasy and point, but maybe
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reindeer on Netflix.
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Okay.
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I don't know if I want to watch it if you just told me, but I do look like crime drama or psychological
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thriller.
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Well, to the dark wrap up the first part, like does he also come up against the first person
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as well?
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Oh god, I don't know if I want to spoil that.
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Okay.
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It's dark, funny in places because he's trying to be a stand up comedian while all this
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shit is happening.
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You kind of uncomfortably laugh and you're like, oh god, like worse get up and this dude.
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Yeah.
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And then the next episode, the most unimaginable fit happens to her.
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But it's very well done.
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And amongst my other, you know, obsessions that I watched week to week such as show gun and
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still X-Men 97, which Haley is promising she's going to start.
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Yeah.
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I will watch.
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I will start.
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That's not ever had so many good things.
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It's so good.
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And show gun is amazing too if you haven't watched that very well, very good show.
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Good.
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But yeah, that's been my shit this week and some Taylor Swift mixed and obviously like everybody
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else.
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I love that.
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Haley, you made a really interesting point earlier about media that we consume really having
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a fandom and having to have a fandom.
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And when I think about fandoms being upset or being involved in something generally what
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comes to my mind is a spin off.
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And so I want to hear from both of you.
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What do you think makes a good spin off?
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What do you think doesn't work within a spin off?
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Like what are your kind of overall general thoughts about spin off?
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And you could even give examples of ones that you've loved or hated.
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That's an interesting question because the first thing that popped into my head is the
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announcement that they are making an X files spin off.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, it's spin off slash reboot, but it's a spin off because it's not about molder
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and schooling.
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Okay.
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It's going to it's being created by the same guy who did Black Panther.
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Ryan Coop.
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Yes.
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Ryan Coop.
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So I've been so torn because obviously he's extremely talented and I'd like to believe
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I want to believe he wants to believe.
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That was unintentional that he that he will do it justice, right?
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Yeah.
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But then I try to ask the question in my head like what does that look like him doing
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it justice?
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I think it has to be respectful of the source material.
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So not like a retconning and deleting existing characters and storylines and things like
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that.
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Yeah.
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I think it has to be independent enough of the original or of the source material so
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that the stories don't conflate and they don't you don't risk ruining characters or ruining
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ruining beloved things that already exist.
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And also has to be separate enough that you're not constantly comparing it to the original
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like it it it can exist as its own thing.
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And bring new people into a fandom.
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Yeah.
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I think if you can have a spin off where you don't even necessarily need to watch the original
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in order to understand the spin off, you could then yeah people can tune in and then maybe
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go back and watch the original.
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And then I think a lot of it just boils down to like the fundamentals of making a show
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like acting and writing and directing and cinematography and all that kind of stuff.
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Like if you're not hitting on on those basic things then obviously it's not going to work.
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But yeah, I guess those are my thoughts.
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And like and does it feel forced?
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I don't think fans want a spin off when it just feels like there's a cast cow that we milked
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right?
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Like the only reason we're doing this or making this is because the original makes so much
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money.
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It kind of feels like the worst thing I can think of of a spin off is Joey.
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Yeah, everything is the same thing.
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Yeah.
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Like it felt so unnecessary and it kind of it didn't make sense.
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I would Joey move away from all of his friends and never see them again, barely mention
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them again.
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Yes, this family that we've never heard of over all of this time of knowing him.
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It just felt unnecessary and forced.
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Yeah.
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So my favorite spin off and this is not going to come as a shock to anybody is angel, which
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is the mouth of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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I watched that so much with my dad.
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Like that was how they got the male fandom.
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Buffy was for the females and my dad like loved angels.
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So I would watch that and then I got really into Buffy as well.
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But that is a really good piece of spin off where it feels independent enough and there's
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crossover almost.
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I agree.
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Like you can watch angel like Andrew when I first started dating him.
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We were talking about TV and I said, oh, my favorite show of all the time is Buffy.
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The Vampire Slayer.
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And he said, oh, I've never seen that, but I love angel.
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He's like, I see every other angel.
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I don't know what.
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I'm like, did you never question like when Buffy showed up?
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He's like, no, I knew enough about her culturally, like as a pop culture figure to kind of
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know.
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Oh, that's angel sex girl for an as she kills.
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That is crazy.
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That Buffy is angel sex girl.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Like a what?
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It was like, first of all, how dare you.
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First of all, it didn't work.
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You're sexism.
22:42
You're sexism.
22:43
You're sexism.
22:44
You're sexism.
22:45
You're sexism.
22:46
You're sexism.
22:47
You're sexism.
22:48
You're sexism.
22:49
You're sexism.
22:50
You're sexism.
22:51
You're sexism.
22:52
You're sexism.
22:53
You're sexism.
22:54
You're sexism.
22:55
You're sexism.
22:56
You're sexism.
22:57
You're sexism.
22:58
You're sexism.
22:59
You're sexism.
23:00
You're sexism.
23:01
You're sexism.
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You're sexism.
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You're sexism.
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It's a reframed act.
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Thank you.
23:06
I watched this TikTok the other day and it was this guy showing his dad pictures of celebrities.
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He's been off of Buffy.
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Like, was it a pretty early on?
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So, Angel left Buffy at the end of season three.
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Okay.
23:18
At the beginning of season four of Buffy, she's going to college.
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She's single and it coincides with Angel season one.
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So, they did air simultaneously for a little bit.
23:28
And Buffy shows up in one episode of Angel.
23:31
He shows up in maybe like two episodes of Buffy.
23:33
So, they pop back and forth a few times to each other's.
23:37
I mean, it kind of reminds me of the whole arrow verse, right?
23:40
Like, arrow slash legends of tomorrow's Supergirl.
23:43
How they all are kind of spin-offs of each other.
23:47
They're all spin-offs of arrow.
23:49
Honestly, yeah.
23:50
And they all kind of pop into each other's shows.
23:53
But you can get away with not watching every single one of them.
23:56
And you'll still understand what's going on.
23:58
Yeah, I think actually the flash is a good example of like a successful spin-off.
24:04
Even though whatever.
24:07
Like, we call it anything about CW Turnout successful.
24:11
But like an example of a successful spin-off versus I would argue.
24:17
And again, whatever the internet can come after me.
24:19
But like legends of tomorrow was great in theory, but it not in execution.
24:24
I was really hoping you didn't say the originals with vampire diaries.
24:29
So it's like, I love that show.
24:31
I did love that though.
24:36
But I think it's an interesting point.
24:39
Like with Angel, I feel like if they had done the Angel show at the end of Buffy, it would
24:45
have been really hard for them to create a successful independent show.
24:50
I think it really depends at the time and the story and how much connection you have to
24:55
to that specific character being a part of your favorite character stories.
25:01
And whenever I was kind of thinking about my favorite spin-offs, I realized like all
25:06
of the ones that I wrote down were almost like prequels to it.
25:11
So better call Saul, which is breaking bad.
25:14
That's, you know, how Saul becomes a lawyer and doing all that and involved with like,
25:20
well, the crime, House of the Dragon, which is an early part of Game of Thrones.
25:27
The originals, I don't know if that technically works, but it's a character.
25:31
And they follow the original vampires within the vampire diaries universe.
25:36
And then a really good one.
25:38
And Haley, I know your big walking dead fan is I really liked fear the walking dead.
25:44
And the walking dead, if you've never seen it, it picks up what like a year into
25:49
Rick being in a coma.
25:51
Right.
25:52
So fear the walking dead really shows us that time where you're like, okay, well, how the world
25:58
fall apart.
25:59
And all the ones that I listed out were prequels.
26:02
So I was like, apparently I just like more of like the mythology of how did you get here
26:06
in the world building and all that.
26:08
I said, you're the walking dead to try.
26:10
I haven't watched any of it, but I would love to see like what happened.
26:14
How did it get there?
26:16
Yeah, it's funny because I am a huge walking dead fan.
26:20
I have not watched fear the walking dead.
26:22
My husband is, he's watched all of this enough.
26:26
So we'll be on and everything.
26:29
So he's much more well versed, I guess, in the universe as a whole.
26:33
I am very die hard to the mother ship show despite all of its flaws.
26:39
I love that about you.
26:42
Any show that runs for 11 years is going to have trash.
26:47
It's going to have some crappy moments, but yeah, no, no.
26:52
But to your point, you know, when talking about you have to really care about the characters
26:57
in the spin off and the spin off has to make sense.
27:01
So now that the walking dead has ended, there's three spin offs off of the mother ship show.
27:05
Right.
27:06
They're free right now.
27:07
I can only think of one.
27:08
Tell us all.
27:09
Okay.
27:10
So feel free to rain me in.
27:12
But there is Darryl Dixon is its own walking, own spin off about Darryl in Paris.
27:21
Has that started yet?
27:23
It has.
27:24
It finishes first season, the second season is about to come out.
27:26
Oh my God.
27:27
I don't know that.
27:28
Oh, was it good?
27:29
I enjoy it.
27:30
I enjoyed it.
27:31
I felt that one's really good.
27:33
It's, um, it's, um, I love Darryl.
27:35
Yeah, you have like Darryl.
27:36
If you don't, like you're not going to like the show, it's also very, people were giving it,
27:43
giving it flat because the last of us had just come out and it's also like about like trying
27:48
to save this kid who might be like, um, the answer to all the world's problems or something.
27:53
I heard there was like a massage.
27:55
Yeah, which is interesting.
27:57
I wouldn't put Darryl with religion, but I guess it's kind of controversial in that sense.
28:03
And they do play that like, you know, kind of this fish out of water.
28:07
He ends up at like a convent.
28:08
I have a question.
28:10
Yeah.
28:11
This is apocalypse.
28:12
Yeah.
28:13
How the hell is Darryl into Paris?
28:16
I think it's via boat.
28:18
I think it's.
28:19
So am I, am I just to soon Paris, Texas?
28:27
I was a little off.
28:29
I was a little off.
28:30
I was like, did he like get a five-foot-foot-foot-foot?
28:34
I'm not by any of those.
28:36
I need to get a kid.
28:37
It's been a minute.
28:38
I need to go back and watch it because this next season Carol is in it.
28:42
It's called Darryl Dixon, but then like semi-colon, the book of Carol and it's all about
28:49
like her trying to find Darryl since he's going to miss it.
28:52
Okay.
28:53
She's one of the only ones.
28:54
Because I still ship them so far.
28:56
Oh, no, don't.
28:57
Yeah.
28:58
Oh, really?
28:59
We will go to Fistacops.
29:00
Oh, yeah.
29:01
Oh, my God.
29:02
Do you get them?
29:03
Okay.
29:04
Do you think I'm just going to die?
29:05
And I will.
29:06
I don't ship them.
29:07
They are so fast.
29:08
She's from France.
29:09
So quickly, Shona.
29:10
I trust it.
29:11
Hayley's so hard.
29:12
But it comes to the laughing.
29:13
They are.
29:14
They are.
29:15
They are my favorite platonic ship, like all the planet.
29:20
Yeah.
29:21
But they work well together.
29:22
Yeah.
29:23
For murder of zombies.
29:24
And of humans.
29:25
And of humans.
29:26
And of humans.
29:27
So I say this all the time, but I do think the Walking Dead pilot episode is one of the
29:33
best pilot episodes of all time.
29:36
I will comfort watch it.
29:39
Sometimes I'm like, oh, I just want to watch a really good show.
29:41
And I know saying comfort watch is on the show about everyone dying.
29:45
It's not does not make sense in a logical brain, but that's me.
29:50
And in a little bow for you.
29:52
Part again.
29:53
I will say I know how the original Walking Dead show ended.
30:00
But my fandom.
30:02
I had to stop.
30:03
I was such a big Walking Dead fan is spoiler alert, but the show's over.
30:08
You should know this right now is when they fake killed Glenn.
30:12
Yes.
30:13
And then they actually killed when they introduced Negan.
30:18
And I said, I've done.
30:20
I can't do it.
30:22
And I went on just knowing like the big moments, characters who laughed, things like that.
30:29
But it died.
30:30
Same.
30:31
Like I kind of kept up with.
30:32
I would read kind of like review articles.
30:34
But after Glenn died, he was my favorite character.
30:37
And I knew he was going to die because I was familiar with the comics.
30:40
But like the way they did it about like torture porn.
30:43
Oh, yeah.
30:44
It was so it was so accurate though to the comics.
30:48
But it really was.
30:49
I will say.
30:51
For a very long time, I have given people grief who quit watching when Negan arrived.
30:55
Because I felt like the arc of Negan and the Sabers was some of like the best of the show.
30:59
And people missed out on that.
31:01
Yeah.
31:02
But what they passed us off two months.
31:04
It had been Rick.
31:06
I would have, you know what I mean?
31:08
I would have.
31:09
So I like to get it because Rick.
31:11
So Rick and Michelle are my favorite characters.
31:14
And thankfully Rick lasted till season 10.
31:17
Or till season nine and Michelle lasted to season 10.
31:21
I did finish watching it after they left, but it was very much a like it was on in the background.
31:27
Because I, you know, I'm a director of character.
31:29
So we made my favorite character for gone.
31:31
So like I do.
31:32
I do.
31:33
Like once upon a time when Emma left, she's the main character of the show.
31:38
So they had like one more final season after that.
31:42
But I my heart wasn't in it.
31:43
I just kind of yeah.
31:44
I would on in the background just for the sake of having it on.
31:47
But I feel like that's that pivotal point of it just becomes, oh, you're just doing this
31:51
for money and not like.
31:53
Like when you left the OC, you're like, do we need another seat that a moon?
31:59
Yeah.
32:00
The main character died.
32:01
Yeah.
32:02
Okay.
32:03
Like you said, there were three spin-offs.
32:04
So one is the Darrell Dixon one.
32:05
Yeah.
32:06
What are the other?
32:07
So the other one and the worst of the three in my opinion is Dead City.
32:11
It is about Maggie and Negan.
32:15
Negan.
32:16
Yeah.
32:17
But you like Negan.
32:18
I like Negan as a character.
32:20
I think he is a and I like Jeffrey D Morgan.
32:22
I just don't think I think there was an episode where Rick sliced Negan's throat under a tree
32:29
and that should have been the end of Negan's character in my opinion.
32:33
Because that's exactly what you guys are talking about where they know Jeffrey D Morgan's
32:37
popular and so they just keep throwing money at him and have him coming back.
32:42
It became like, ah, moment.
32:44
So people would talk about it and it's like, psych and it's like, no, we need to have real
32:48
stakes in a show for us to believe what's happening.
32:52
Like sometimes in like a Sarah J. Mass book, I'm like, well, that person's not going to
32:56
die.
32:57
And even if you tell me they die, I know they're coming back.
32:59
Yeah.
33:00
Oh, so I know what one character died.
33:02
I and I won't spoil it.
33:03
I was like, oh, good.
33:04
We don't need her.
33:05
And then literally, two pages later, they're like, it's miraculous.
33:09
She's alive.
33:10
Well, that's the thing is like you pull off.
33:12
You kill off Glen or you kill off Carl.
33:14
You kill off these like beloved characters.
33:16
Yeah.
33:17
But you save Negan.
33:18
That, that, that's unforgettable in my opinion.
33:22
But I agree.
33:23
I'm sorry.
33:24
If someone, I know Negan, everyone's going to argue, oh, he went through a very good character
33:29
arc and he's got that bad humor.
33:30
It's something to beat my husband's head.
33:32
I'm going to spoil that in front of me.
33:35
His redemption arc has not been, it's not been a redemptive.
33:40
It has been like, it has humanized him.
33:42
And that's why I say like I like him as a character because I do think he is more complex
33:46
than the guy who just shows up and, you know, bashes and heads.
33:49
They've done a good job at doing that.
33:51
But in my, in my view, the only, all these people are talking about, we need everyone reunited
33:56
back on the show again and everyone blah, blah, blah.
33:59
The only way Negan's character, the only development needed for his character left in
34:04
my opinion.
34:05
Is to die saving Maggie or Herschel.
34:08
That I totally agree.
34:10
That's it.
34:11
That's it.
34:12
That's the only way that I think that he could even be slightly redeemed after what he did
34:17
to her.
34:18
And I mean, everyone else because everyone was going to spend and they were family, but
34:21
like, especially at our heart.
34:23
Right.
34:24
And Herschel's a teenager now on Dead City.
34:25
It's set in the future.
34:26
It's at like six years.
34:27
No, no.
34:28
In the future.
34:29
So he's a teenager.
34:30
And by all accounts, the second season, he's going to follow the comic book storyline a little
34:36
bit and become a little bit of a villain himself.
34:38
Oh, it was interesting.
34:40
It was a morally gray.
34:43
Yeah.
34:44
Yeah.
34:45
I really like a morally gray character too.
34:46
And I think what I like about the prequels, they eventually have to end up the place you already
34:50
know them.
34:51
Yeah.
34:52
Like with the Hunger Games and the ballad of snakes and songbirds, even though you were
34:58
kind of like, wow, I really feel bad for President Snow.
35:02
You could empathize with him.
35:04
You know that he's going to end up at this one point.
35:06
You're like, wow, there's so much.
35:08
So yeah, I think that's what makes it or what kind of breaks it is a character that you
35:14
don't really have a lot of character growth potential for or just a lot of interest to witness
35:22
character growth.
35:23
That reminds me a lot of like the Harry Potter sequels.
35:27
And I mean, and it can be said a lot that people just don't want to support J.K.
35:31
Rowling anymore, which is probably has something to do with why those movies weren't very
35:35
successful.
35:36
But they also just weren't very good.
35:40
The fantastic beast movies.
35:42
I mean, the first one I enjoyed the second one I thought was trash.
35:46
And then I didn't even watch the third one, like honestly.
35:48
Well, they were kind of yeah.
35:50
Yeah.
35:51
I only wanted because it was on a plane.
35:53
Yeah.
35:54
I think those movies were kind of universally seen as not very good.
35:59
And I think it's because yeah, like the main character was kind of boring.
36:05
There wasn't a lot of character growth potential.
36:07
I mean, the first one he's charming and I could have seen it being like a one-off spin-off
36:11
movie.
36:12
But so along the chart word can carry franchise, I don't know.
36:17
Yeah, I agree.
36:18
Yeah, I think they should have just with the early ones they should have just stuck
36:22
with only Dumbledore and not this like fake Hagrid, like character who just loved magical
36:28
beasts, you know.
36:29
They're like, oh, what do people like?
36:31
People love Hagrid.
36:32
Everybody says they like Hagrid.
36:33
Let's give them a little young attractive Hagrid.
36:37
And with some Hagrid.
36:39
Yeah.
36:40
So again, I think it comes to this.
36:42
It's like, oh, you're not really like thinking like what would people want to know?
36:45
And I think Dumbledore is a big piece of it.
36:47
I want to see gay Dumbledore.
36:49
Go me to show me.
36:50
I think hardcore gay sex and I'm in.
36:54
Show me Dumbledore finding his queer identity and I would literally I would love that.
37:02
It's amazing.
37:03
I think I hate that writing that but I don't know.
37:05
Yeah, well, I've got the wrong tree.
37:07
And we're just like, if we have the fanfiction community for that.
37:10
So okay, so they're doing the Lord's work.
37:14
I'm so glad you said fan fiction because it is the perfect segue into the third walking
37:20
dead spin off.
37:21
Oh, okay.
37:22
Because it's freaking fanfiction, dude.
37:24
Okay, so this is where you really have to ring me in though.
37:27
Okay.
37:28
Nope.
37:29
I want to show you something.
37:30
I know you're kind of.
37:31
Okay, so Sean knows this about me.
37:32
Like when I ship a couple, I ship them hard.
37:36
Yeah.
37:37
I love it.
37:38
I love it.
37:39
And I live for sexy people doing sexy things.
37:45
And the ones who live is textbook like fan fiction, ultimate ship, sexy people, kicking
37:52
ass, taking names.
37:54
It is, ah, okay.
37:57
I'm going to be bold.
37:59
It is the most satisfying fandom experience I have ever had in my entire life.
38:05
Oh, okay.
38:06
Okay.
38:07
Yeah.
38:08
Okay.
38:09
So just to back up a minute.
38:13
So like I said, Rick leaves in season nine, Michonne leaves in season 10.
38:17
Rick is presumed dead.
38:19
He's not dead.
38:20
He's kidnapped.
38:21
Yes.
38:22
Or a helicopter.
38:23
Right.
38:24
Exactly.
38:25
Michonne senses that he's still out there, spent all this time looking for him and finds his
38:31
boots and finds a phone with like a sketch of her and Judith on it.
38:39
So that is the clue that she gets in season 10 to go take off to go find him.
38:44
Judith gives her her blessing.
38:46
It says mom, you got to find it.
38:48
Judith at that point.
38:50
And I don't know because the timeline's a little fuzzy.
38:52
Yeah, I would say like 11 or 12.
38:54
Okay.
38:55
Okay.
38:56
She has had.
38:57
So when Rick got blown up on the bridge, Michonne was pregnant.
39:00
So so they have a son named RJ.
39:05
Who Rick has never met.
39:08
And yeah, I know.
39:10
I know.
39:11
He's almost so in the ones.
39:17
In the ones who live, oh, Carl's a big part of the ones who live too.
39:19
So in the ones who live by that point, it has been eight years.
39:24
Oh, yeah.
39:25
Rick has been gone.
39:28
And they haven't seen each other.
39:29
They have not seen each other.
39:31
She doesn't even know if he's alive.
39:32
And he has been trapped by this crazy.
39:36
Crazy.
39:37
Yeah, crazy organization called the CRM.
39:39
They could have picked a better name.
39:40
They really could have.
39:41
RM.
39:42
Still a lot of people like No one would feel amazing as a RM.
39:45
I first thought we were in the matrix.
39:48
I think they all sport clearly.
39:49
Yeah, it's a very, it's very like you could tell they were like, this is for the dudes.
39:54
Yeah.
39:55
The customer relationship.
39:56
I didn't know that.
39:57
I'm sorry.
39:58
I'm sorry.
39:59
I'm sorry.
40:00
I'm sorry.
40:01
Yeah.
40:02
So outside of that outside of the CRM.
40:06
I will say that it hits all the requirements for good spin-off, right?
40:11
You have characters you care about.
40:13
You have an unfinished story that needs resolution.
40:17
So when we pick up, basically the first episode is like what Rick has been up to for the last
40:21
eight years.
40:23
The second episode is how Michonne's journey has gone to try to find him.
40:29
And then I won't say much, much beyond that.
40:31
It's only six episodes, which is also I think why it hit so well and it was so satisfying
40:37
because it didn't overstay its welcome.
40:39
It had an end.
40:40
It had a very clear beginning, middle and end.
40:43
There's no season two or anything.
40:44
It was just kind of a mini story.
40:46
It was marketed originally when they first, you never know with the M.T.
40:51
That's beyond it.
40:52
When they first announced it at San Diego Comic Con, they were like, it's going to be
40:55
a six episode thing with more seasons to come.
40:58
And then they quickly like backtracked that and were like, no, it's just six episodes.
41:03
My theory is they are, they have announced that AMC is submitting everything, submitting
41:08
the ones who live for multiple categories for Emmys in like limited series or in the
41:12
technology.
41:13
And then they're going to continue it like the Glow Lies plan.
41:16
Exactly, big, big Lies.
41:17
Probably the smartest.
41:19
I think that's the plan.
41:20
So we won't hear anything until, until after the Emmys is my guest.
41:24
Okay.
41:25
I have a very important question that I have asked you so many times on this podcast.
41:30
And it is, I know what it is.
41:33
Do they do it?
41:34
Of course they do.
41:36
Yes.
41:37
Yes, they do.
41:38
They do and they do multiple times.
41:42
And that's also like my favorite part of the flagship show was Rick and Michonne and my
41:49
only complaint was like, I need more of them.
41:52
So to get six episodes of just them and it was marketed as an epic love story, which
41:57
pissed off a lot of the dude bros and and pissed off all the racist.
42:01
It pissed off all the right people.
42:03
So if you like, you know, it's doing it well then.
42:06
Yeah.
42:07
If you need more of a reason to watch it, just know like it's, it stays pissing off all horrible
42:12
people.
42:13
But yeah, they do it.
42:14
Yeah.
42:15
Oh my God.
42:16
A lot of stuff.
42:17
That was my question.
42:18
Anytime I heard Nicole talk about law and order.
42:21
I'm like, all right, that's all great.
42:22
That's all great.
42:23
Thank you.
42:24
I want to know.
42:25
Yeah.
42:26
I want to know.
42:27
That is important.
42:28
I think that's a valuable part of us been off to do it.
42:32
It is.
42:33
It is.
42:34
And valuable part of a love story and not only that, but like the love scene.
42:38
I don't want to say too much, but I will say episode four of the ones who live it was written
42:43
by Deny Guerrera who plays Michonne.
42:46
And she is like an award winning playwright.
42:49
And episode four really is written like a play where it is just her and and and Rick, the
42:55
whole episode.
42:56
It's just them too.
42:59
And it is quite possibly my favorite hour of television.
43:04
Maybe outside that pilot, right?
43:05
Yeah.
43:06
I'm out of the walking dead is like, okay, not just a great pilot, but like a great, like
43:12
hour of horror cinema.
43:15
Yeah, absolutely.
43:16
But I want to watch that.
43:18
I'm like, I want to watch the first episode of the walking dead tonight and then jump into
43:22
the one to live.
43:23
So here's what I will tell you.
43:24
I have to catch up a little bit.
43:25
I will tell you there is a great YouTube video.
43:28
I'll send it to you.
43:29
There's a great YouTube video just that the walking dead put out that's like the Rick and
43:33
Michonne relationship timeline.
43:34
And it just hits all like the kind of highlights of like the seasons you might have made
43:38
because they didn't get together till season six.
43:40
Yeah.
43:41
Which is after the the Sabers arrive.
43:43
So there's a great.
43:44
We had like other questionable lovers.
43:51
Yes.
43:52
So just as an other questionable lover, Taylor Swift, listen.
43:57
We have to get our rady healies out of the way.
43:59
Okay.
44:00
We all need to kiss if you rady heal before we find our Rick grime.
44:05
Yeah.
44:06
There we go.
44:07
So true.
44:08
So true.
44:09
Yeah.
44:10
That and then you can jump into the ones who live and it.
44:14
Oh, it owes me nothing.
44:16
Like I have rewatched those episodes, probably like 85 times.
44:20
My husband's like, I need to commit you somewhere.
44:22
You have a problem.
44:23
I think you might have a strong fear of walking dead.
44:26
I think so.
44:27
Wait.
44:28
What?
44:29
Sorry.
44:30
I said, I think that just me and she needs to start fear of walking dead.
44:31
Oh, yeah.
44:32
Yeah.
44:33
I think so.
44:34
Yeah.
44:35
I got to get my face.
44:36
It's good.
44:37
I think they eventually connect.
44:38
There are some seasons that I haven't seen, but it is very good.
44:42
And what's I know more again, the guy with, yes, yeah, yes, the guy with the staff was always
44:49
thinking, yeah, that's how they eventually connect, but very, very good.
44:53
I can watch that show live.
44:54
I'm learning so much about you.
44:56
Oh my gosh.
44:57
What?
44:58
You know, God.
44:59
There's a good thing that we do this weekly.
45:01
So you'll continue to learn more about me.
45:03
I can learn even more and more.
45:07
I love it.
45:08
I miss you so much, Hayley.
45:10
I'm so glad that you were on this.
45:11
I miss you too.
45:12
It's so good to be back.
45:13
And I'm going to hang out with you guys at a fan fusion.
45:17
Yes.
45:18
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
45:19
Oh my God.
45:20
Yeah.
45:21
And at the point, we are going to be at fan fusion.
45:23
We have Shawna and Olivia on the Friday panel from six to seven.
45:30
And then you can catch Shawna and Nicole at 3 p.m. on Sunday.
45:35
And of course, you can say hi to Hayley the Brave.
45:38
She'll be hanging out with us a little bit.
45:40
Olivia.
45:41
May 24th to May 26th.
45:44
And Phoenix Arizona.
45:46
Oh yeah.
45:47
Catch us there.
45:49
Maybe in cosplay.
45:51
Maybe not because I am immediately leaving that and going to the airport.
45:55
You can go in.
45:56
I could.
45:57
I could.
45:58
And then I have to rent a car.
45:59
So I'm just like thinking about that because it's my friends.
46:02
I do it.
46:03
That's my friends wedding.
46:04
And I didn't realize that their ceremony was at 11 a.m.
46:08
Oh, she got it away.
46:10
So I have to fly in Friday night.
46:13
Renekar drive 25 minutes.
46:16
And so it's if I am dressed like Nesta Archeron that that will be weird.
46:22
You know, there is weird subjective.
46:25
Maybe it'll bust out the the bald cap again somehow.
46:30
And then I can just like rip it off my my head.
46:33
Are you coswing, Sean?
46:34
I am.
46:35
I have a few plans.
46:36
But I broke my foot.
46:40
Oh yeah.
46:41
But it'll be off for them.
46:43
I think I will be in just my walking group by then.
46:47
And one of my cosplays is Farah from a quarter of the orange roses and she's wearing a
46:52
MACSY dress.
46:53
Nice.
46:54
And then I think I might be sheen Gray.
46:59
Well not really sheen Gray.
47:00
You need to watch X-Men.
47:03
Okay.
47:04
Okay.
47:05
She'll tell you more than I don't know if the boot will work well with that one.
47:11
I was thinking about just being sexy Charles Xavier and having Andrew push me around.
47:15
So we'll tear the entire side of the Charles Xavier.
47:21
Never have those words been put up.
47:23
But I don't think she's in a wheelchair.
47:25
Well, you're what?
47:26
I'll sacrifice a bald cap for you.
47:27
Babe, don't worry.
47:28
I'll just wear like a really slutty three suit with a guard about a wheelchair and a bald
47:36
cap.
47:37
Yeah.
47:38
I see no problem with this.
47:39
I see no problem with this.
47:40
I have a few cosplays planned.
47:41
We'll see how well they plan out.
47:42
We're mulling on some ideas right now.
47:43
What are you going to cosplay?
47:44
We're doing it over.
47:45
Yeah.
47:46
I'm going to be, yeah, I'm going to be a human thermon from Kill Bill.
47:55
Oh my god.
47:56
I love you.
47:57
I love you.
47:58
And then Sunday, the whole family will be there.
47:59
We're going to be Super Mario brothers.
48:02
Oh, fine.
48:03
I'm going to be a protest peach in her Mario Kart out things in the movie.
48:07
Oh, I love it.
48:08
Yeah.
48:09
It'll be a good time.
48:10
Do you have like a car and everything?
48:12
No, I thought about it.
48:13
It's just two, a studio.
48:14
Yeah.
48:15
Yeah.
48:16
It really is.
48:17
It really is.
48:18
Yes.
48:19
I would agree with that.
48:20
We do live in a desert.
48:21
It's very warm.
48:22
I love it.
48:23
Okay.
48:24
Cool.
48:25
I think that's going to be it for this week.
48:27
I definitely think Haley should host a pop culture junkie spin off show.
48:31
Don't you?
48:32
Oh, I have one to live.
48:34
I host it every day at my house and my husband will murder me fourth with.
48:42
Just a yapper by heart, you know, once and always.
48:49
Now tell us where our listeners can find you guys.
48:52
Oh, Hayley, you want to go for it?
48:53
Yeah.
48:54
You can find me at a fan fusion with these fabulous ladies.
49:01
And I'm like a spice girl.
49:02
So like if you want to get with me, you got to get with my friends.
49:04
Yes.
49:05
You know what I mean?
49:06
So follow them and then they'll point you to me.
49:07
They can find you in past episodes of Pop Culture Junkie.
49:11
Download them.
49:12
You know, great stuff.
49:13
And you can find me in all of the Richinne chatrooms.
49:17
You can find me at Shauna Trinidad on Instagram, TikTok and sometimes on threads if I feel like
49:38
it.
49:39
@shaunatrinidad S-H-A-U-N-A-T-R-I-N-I-D-A-D
49:45
And you can find me Olivia on Instagram @livmariez LIV I M A R I E Z or on TikTok
49:54
@livyolife420
49:56
L I V for live.
49:59
And you can find the pop culture junkie podcasts, social media links and more on our website
50:04
popculturejunkie.com.
50:06
There you can find our podcast on all platforms.
50:09
Please follow, subscribe, rate and review, whatever your heart's desires.
50:14
Maybe you can give us some ideas for our fandom names and spin-offs.
50:19
You can also check out the brand new tears on our Patreon.
50:23
We have a $1 and a $5 tier.
50:27
You can get us unadded, unfiltered and some spicy content.
50:32
I'm going to close to those.
50:42
I was promised toast.
50:47
We graduated.
50:48
I think it was farts in jars before.
50:50
It was.
50:51
No, sorry.
50:52
We graduated.
50:53
I had enough offer.
50:54
We might do it.
50:55
We're class here now.
50:56
We're class.
50:57
No, we're just toes.
50:59
Feetpicks.com.
51:00
Also known as our Patreon.
51:07
The vid.
51:08
And come back next week for another hit of pop culture.
51:15
The Pop Culture Junkie podcast is produced by Jeff Markin and Cheryl Lightfoot with the
51:19
Pop Culture Entertainment Network.
51:21
So entertain me, entertain me right now.
51:34
(upbeat music)