Latest / Harder Than Life / 139: On Borrowed Time - How a Near-Breakdown Led to a Life of Purpose with Yohance Boulden

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139: On Borrowed Time - How a Near-Breakdown Led to a Life of Purpose with Yohance Boulden · Harder Than Life

• 0:07
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:23
  Welcome back to the Heart of Life podcast. Today's guest is Johanse Bolden. He's a father, a former military professional, writer, and entrepreneur. With a background in the special operations community, he has spent years honing his mindset, leadership, and resilience. Now he's channeling the experiences into storytelling, personal development, and helping others navigate life's challenges. A collector of skills and wisdom, Johanse shares the journey of transformation and the journey of transformation
• 0:51
  mental health battles and the pursuit of living fully on borrowed time. Welcome my new good friend, Johanse. What's up, man? Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure meeting you. What almost two weeks ago now. So, yeah, that's what we're going to talk about. Wait, like, so you got to get in rooms. I just was at a retreat for clean eats Don Verade through us, a men of the swamp event of all of his friends and,
• 1:17
  And you walk in, what are you, 6'2", 275. If you're not watching, this guy's menacing. He worked for the government for years. And I'm like, I got to know this guy. And about three minutes later, we're hugging it out and crying. So we're going to talk a lot about...
• 1:34
  big, awesome, strong men and being vulnerable and what it means to be transparent and leaning on other vulnerable people. Because we've been taught and a couple of conversations into this, Johante and I've realized that his grandmother lives right here in my own town. And so we grew up very similar and we were always taught you got to be the tough guy.
• 1:57
  You got to hold in your feelings. And I'm not kidding you, two badasses, Johansson and me, we're hugging it out, crying literally five minutes into this. And we're going to talk about it. And it's cool, guys. So tell us a little bit about you because you're not a big, you have a big following, but you got a big heart. And you connected with me and I connected with you. And I'm like, I got to have this guy on the show and share him. Tell us your story.
• 2:22
  Well, you know, I was a soldier for 20 years. I tell everybody I'm a random enthusiast, which means I just I like to dabble. I like to get in there and do things. Collector of skills, you know, if you will. And I like people, man. My partner jokes that we're social perverts, man. I like to get in there and know people, figure out what they are, why they tick, you know, the whole nine. And then somewhere along the line, you know, you start realizing what life actually is.
• 2:49
  versus like what you kind of thought it was and what you were sold right we're all sold this kind of version of life and so um when that happened for me when my eyes opened a lot of it switched to helping to getting better to living a life where at the end of it i don't i don't have any more desires or wants and also along the way i get to bring those who i love and care about with me
• 3:14
  That's kind of how I ended up here. It's how I ended up meeting you at Don's place. I tell everybody, once you're in the circle with me, if you call me, I'm there. And that's what happened. I saw a man that provides for everybody. And when I said, who provides for you, you broke down. And this is what I talk about in my coaching program all the time. We as tough men are always providing. You were the leader of men in the military. You're still leading men.
• 3:44
  We forget to look out for ourselves. So you talk a lot about earning your regrets. What does that philosophy mean to you?
• 3:53
  Wow. We'll jump right in. Okay. So, you know, I think regrets are something that we all have and we cannot, we can't escape. We don't escape this life without regrets. And so if I have a regret, I want to make sure that I actually earn it. I actually put in the steps. It's kind of like that thing. If we work backwards, you train for something and it doesn't work out. You don't win.
• 4:17
  Right. That's not this. That doesn't matter. What matters is how you put in. One of my pet peeves, I guess, we're really talking about here is the opposite. When you meet guys and they're like, well, I didn't really try that hard.
• 4:29
  You know, and I think that's the whole thing, but for life, I want to earn these regrets. I want to make sure that this thing is a life well lived. I want to make sure that I apologize less, not because I don't want to say I'm sorry, but because I'm doing and taking the right actions, right? Taking the right action is extremely important to me. Making sure that I'm there, making sure that the regret I have is more about being tired and not missing, right? I want to be at my daughter's thing, even if that means I'm exhausted.
• 5:00
  I want to show up here for this podcast, even though, you know, whatever else has to change or happen. And so I think that's earning your regrets, man, is just making sure that they're intentional, right?
• 5:13
  Cause sometimes they'll just happen, but you have to have intention behind it. What you don't want is you don't want those regrets to eat at you for the next 40 years, 60 years, whatever you got left on this planet. And that's the thing that I, you know, we have those, I have plenty of them, which led me to that belief of like, earn this regret. Right. If you're going to have this, like, make sure you put in everything you can to it's worthwhile, whatever it is, or whatever it does not, you know, turn out to be. Cause sometimes you don't, you don't get it. You don't get everything you want.
• 5:39
  Man, I've earned all my regrets, but I thought you were going to go down a path that says, I have no regrets. Yeah. Really? We have regrets because if you don't have any regrets, you didn't learn. Also, you're probably not playing stakes high enough, if that's the case. Right? So one decision comes at the expense of another. And I have yet to meet somebody who didn't come to a fork in the road and go, whoa. Like, this might not be the right choice.
• 6:07
  Or you make the right choice, but still you don't know what was on the other side. I coach a lot of young men right now. One of the guys I have, he's experiencing this in real time. He wants to be an adventurer, he says. And I tell him, I say, well, here's where adventure is. Well, he goes, it's not certain. Welcome to adventure, my friend. Welcome to life, dude. That right there is what I just got to put on repeat, man.
• 6:36
  Venture into the unknown because so many of us are living this miserable life and it's familiar, familiar misery, and we just keep it on repeat. Go over to the unknown and it can't get any worse for some of us. Yeah. I mean, betting on yourself. One of the things I've been thinking a lot about lately is how a bet on yourself feels daunting, but it's the best investment you can make.
• 7:03
  right? Investing in me, you know, or, or what do they say? The S and B 500. I want to do the S and B 500 more than anything else. And that's, that's kind of where I'm at with, with a lot of this stuff, man. It's just, I would rather invest in me and then pick the story that I think is scarier. A long time ago, I saw this movie called Americano real, real B movie. Nobody knows. And yeah,
• 7:28
  the tagline in the movie is do what scares you. And that kind of became like the thing that I did for the next 20 years. It's how I ended up in the special operations community. It's how I ended up with half the adventures I have under my belt. And, you know, I think that there's something to,
• 7:44
  choosing those scary things. We kind of jumped over that. You had some great stories. Without giving away too much, you were in special operations in the military. So most of the stuff you did was classified. But what was something that you can share so the community knows why I connected with you so much? Because...
• 8:01
  I got to tell you, I would never bet against you. Never. And that's why we connected. So what is something scary, some operation that you did that was scary that you leave out the details, the classified details, that when you got through it, you came out a bigger, better, stronger man, more resilient, just better? Man, I don't know that I have a thing that I would lean on like that. What I would tell you is this. I walked into a room.
• 8:30
  when I first got into the special operations community and I realized how bad I was. Wait, bad isn't good or bad? No, bad as in like, I can't keep up. Right? Limiting beliefs, people, limiting beliefs. Like you think you're awesome, right? And big fish, small pond kind of thing. And then you walk into a room with guys who...
• 8:54
  teach themselves Korean on the weekend, or you walk into a room where a guy does 40 pull-ups like it's five. And I think that's the thing that's constantly been the mark for me. And it's not comparison in the sense of like, oh my God, oh, woe is me, or comparison like whatever, but comparison is like, there's more.
• 9:14
  You absolutely have more to give. And I think, you know, if I had to hang my hat on it, I think that's probably more of the thing than it is some special or scary anything. It's just you, you know, you think that you're halfway there and you're not. You think you got all of it to give and you, you gave it all and you look down and go, there's more.
• 9:37
  You know, I think a lot about it. I don't play video games, but I think about it a lot in video game terms, like those little life bar on a video game. I always think about like, how big is your life bar?
• 9:47
  How much do you have to give? And then as you're going along, like how much do you get like little power ups or whatever they call them? I think about that in terms of all this. And I get that stuff from when I meet guys like you, when I met guys I was on team with, when I met guys that I trained with. And then I, again, like just going back to the scariest thing possible, whenever, whenever you could pick it. I mean, the first time I jumped out of an airplane, right? Like, yeah.
• 10:10
  It's not something a lot of brothers do. Like, right? It became a thing where it was like, oh, I like this feeling. How do I chase this feeling more? You've been in some crazy situations. What's something that still scares you? Man, I mean, a ton of shit scares me, man. I just, my default mode when I get scared is to move towards it though. And I hate to say that like I'm some bad, it's not that, it's just like, the reason why I learned how to fight is because I was scared of fighting.
• 10:41
  Right. The reason why I learned how to swim is because I was tired of people saying you can't swim and not knowing. And then when I had kids, then it became an even bigger deal. Right. The reason why I learned how to, you know, take these crazy driving courses, one, the military paid for them. Don't get me wrong. But two, it's like you want to be able to handle yourself in all of these situations. And so. Yeah.
• 11:04
  I mean, the biggest fear right now, I think, is every fear that every parent has, right? Like, it's my kids. I worry about that daily, like on a real daily basis. I'm like, you know, and it's and if we get real nuanced with it, it's not just like the big scary. What if something happens? It's also like, how do I make this a good person? Right. Like, if I step in here, am I robbing them of the opportunity? If I don't step in here, am I creating regret or am I creating a circumstance where they were like, dad should help me?
• 11:35
  You know, and so, like, those are the fears that, like, I think are more important. I mean, on an existential external crisis right now, like, I mean, dude, like, I worry, like, everybody else, if I go to the wrong place in the wrong time, things got to get live, but...
• 11:49
  I bet on you, bro. I bet on you. The more you speak, the more I literally were separated at birth. Fear fuels me. So we had to talk about it. The reason why I'm such a big dude is because my stepdad used to beat the crap out of me, and he was a big man. So I didn't get mad about it. I said, oh.
• 12:10
  I'm like the Roger Bannister four minute mile after fricking, it was broken to everybody. I said, okay, you're going to beat me. I'm going to go work out and I'm going to beat you. And when I got finally thrown out of the house is when I called him out, said it's go time. And he was scared because he had built a killer and I'd trained with that fricking grit in my eye. And you know, I always say that frustration and fear can either fail you or
• 12:37
  fuel you and you and I use it as fuel. That's why we connected. So I love that. I, I, I run into it, into the problem, into it. And, or I'll literally just go in and sit in it and just say, what is this? And it doesn't scare me as much anymore because I'm there and I'm uncomfortable. I think it's what it is. Like you said it perfect. Like you sit in it. Most people are afraid to sit in it. They're afraid to like, just to have that idea of like, like,
• 13:05
  Take your biggest fear right now, right? If you're listening and you're done with this podcast, take your biggest fear and sit in it for five minutes. And then if you really want to, we call them thought crimes, right? So when we're doing our mentorship classes and everything else, we call them commit to thought crime.
• 13:22
  go there, make it, make it emotional. You know, I I'll, I'll go here. I had one, my daughter was sick probably, probably two years ago now at this point. And so I'm taking her to the doctor and you know, she's doing that. Yeah. I got daddy's girl. So she's like hugged up on me cause she ain't feeling good. And we're driving to the to the doctors and this guy cut us off, not anything crazy, but just cut us off. And I was like,
• 13:48
  And I kind of checked it, but then I was like, well, what if he had hit us? And then I pushed it away. I pushed the thought away immediately, right? And I was like, no, sit here, sit with it, go here. What happens? What happens if this car hits? What happens if she gets hurt? What happens if it's worse, right? What happens if you both get hurt? And so, and I just sat with, I got super emotional in the car. I didn't cry because she's there. I didn't want her to know like, your dad's imagining things that aren't real right now.
• 14:15
  But, you know, I got super emotional. And for me, it was one of those things where it's like, it's not that I'm not afraid of this anymore, but it's now I know what step one is. I know what step two is. Right. And then even more so, and this kind of goes to the earning the regrets thing and everything else is like, hug back.
• 14:33
  Grab a little tighter. We all are probably guilty of, you know, putting the phone to the face a little too much. Put the phone down, you know, whatever it may or may not be. And it's like be in this moment, right? Like I'm not a big fan of balance. I don't think balance exists for people who want more, but I think you can be ruthlessly present.
• 14:53
  Listen, this guy has stormed houses in Afghanistan. He didn't know what he was walking into. There's a patrol through the desert where there are mines. And he's telling you that what got him worked up was somebody cutting him off. So I got to tell you, I feel the same.
• 15:12
  The mind is crazy, people. This is what it is. It's controlling that irrational or whatever that thing. It's controlling that emotion that isn't even true. That's life. What you just said. So after years in the special operations community, what was the biggest mindset shift you had to make as a civilian is to not be when somebody cuts you off? Yeah.
• 15:36
  not chasing speed all the time, right. It has been a big, and I think we touched on this when we, when we were talking, not chasing, uh, the big emotional, uh, adrenaline thing has always been a big shift. That's been hard. Um, but, but it's not a shift. It's more concentrated, right? I find, I find ways to channel it now. I think the biggest thing for me has been, um,
• 16:01
  really just trying to connect into things that weren't a part of my life then. And I'm not going to say it was because of the military. I also think it's just because I'm just young and brash and crazy, man. Right. Like being a full fledged human, right. A whole man in touch with your emotions, able to control your emotions, able to experience life. Right. Right. And I think that's the most important part is like you stunt life, right.
• 16:25
  if you can't do all those things, right? Like a lot of times we talk to men and they're like, they have three emotions, right? Anger, happy, horny, jealous, right? Something like that. They got like three or four and then you start really diving in. It's like, no man, you have a bunch. And the more you can be in touch with those, both positive and negative, right? The better off you are. I'm a firm believer that my capacity of love is a direct correlation for my capacity to hate, right? And one has to be in control, the other one doesn't.
• 16:55
  And I think that's for all the things, right? There's no light without dark. You just, you just have to have a little bit of both, you know? You're speaking of the duality. So yeah, you lost me for a second. I'm like, what? And then I get it. The duality. You have to know the other side. You have to know. Well, even if you think about just on this one real quick, if you think about it like this, man, like, um.
• 17:14
  There's no sweet without sour. Like I like cooking, man. And I think one of the reasons why I do, and even, even meeting you, and I think you, you kind of get this right. The reason why I'm able to meet you in three minutes later, go there is because I've been to the other side. Right. And I, and I, and I know, and I also, and I heard you talk about this, when we were sitting around the fire, which I spoke to my heart is like, you, you don't, we don't know how short this thing is.
• 17:39
  You know, I say it all the time. It's like, you're not a gallon of milk, man. There's no expiration date stamped on your head. And so I think the more people grasp onto that and they cherish that and they understand that like, you don't know when this thing ends. So like, get the hug now, take the picture now, be involved now because tomorrow, like, I don't know what that means. I have no clue. That was impactful, man. You just touched my heart. Cause you're right.
• 18:03
  I mean, we were sitting around there and then literally the conversation set the scene. There was 40 CEOs, business owners, entrepreneurs, just winners, successful gentlemen and some respect of the life. And we got together to break bread and cheer each other on and compare war stories. And it ended.
• 18:23
  with all of us around a campfire smoking cigars and really just it was rudy you and me kind of telling stories and and it was i and i everybody was captivated because we were saying how simplistic life is yeah so it was you and i were sharing uh sunsets and sunrises it's like once you you called it become a whole man or a whole woman you
• 18:49
  life gets really, really simple. When do you think for you, I'm going to say for me, it probably took the 43 to 45 years old. I was, I'm a late thick headed, hardheaded individual. When did you feel like you became a whole man? Um, I'll say 40, 40,
• 19:04
  and I'll even peak it and go like, we're at the top of the mountain, but we weren't at the peak. And even then, I still don't believe that there's a there. And to be, and I'll go here, man. Like I had a crisis in 2017, 2018. Was super, super suicidal, depressed, and just went through it, man. I was going through the whole thing. And that perspective and that,
• 19:32
  life shift is really kind of what was the catalyst for everything, right? It's a catalyst for on borrowed time, which is why I got that thing. It was because I was like, I don't, I'm not supposed to have this. This is all luck.
• 19:46
  And I'm happy to have it. And people are like, oh, it's not luck. Well, now it is. All the choices after that aren't luck, but I'm lucky to have this. And I'll own that. Yeah. And so I think that it took about 40 years, right? It took 40 years of mistakes. And one of the things that stopped me dead in my tracks the other day, I was having a conversation with a friend. And I told him, I said, I never knew it would be this hard to get this happy.
• 20:11
  Hence it's called harder than life. It literally is. And then it's something just listeners. You got to listen to this. I,
• 20:19
  is something about grinding through the hard and it just becomes easy. That's why my next book's called Happier Than Life. I wanna say, first of all, thank you for your service and thank you for being here. I'm not talking about here on the show. I'm talking about sitting in your stuff when you were contemplating suicide. This is what we talked about. I always say everything to everybody. You are not alone. We can fix anything but death.
• 20:45
  So if you're feeling some kind of something, you reach out to me, you reach out to Johansson. And literally, I forgot to talk about it. He's got this book coming out. It's called on borrowed time. What inspired you to write it? I realized kind of after all these things and I'm helping guys all of a sudden, one, that most of the stories sound the same. And that's true, man. Right. A dude in a room with alcohol and,
• 21:13
  and a gun who feels like there's nobody else who feels like him. And then I also realized that I can't give you GPS directions
• 21:25
  but I can give you the tools to navigate the road. And so I don't wanna think that I'm, I don't wanna be presumptuous enough to be like, follow these 10 steps and you won't kill yourself, right? But I wanna be able to be like, here's the things that I know to be true that make life worthwhile and here are the tools to help you before you even get there or if you're there.
• 21:49
  And, and these are just my perspectives, right? I'm not offering a lot of prescriptions. I'll offer perspectives and I'll offer some advice. And I want to interrupt you right here and just say, would you, would you go and offer some advice? Tell us what skills that you used to get through that. Cause there is somebody listening to this. That's in a similar situation that I want.
• 22:10
  I want to lend some advice to you. Number one is get small. Sometimes we're so worried about getting to the next month, the next year, the next five years. Sometimes you got to make it meal to meal. Some days are day to day. Some days are step to step.
• 22:26
  Right. And no, that's Debbie. Number one is like, you get small. And as you're getting small, you get thankful. Right. One of the things I did every day is I wrote a thank you note and to preface this, the way I, to think about it is I'm, I'm actively trying not to kill myself at this point. Right. And I'm still depressed. I'm still like the way I talk about it a lot is depression is a person who follows you around and he's just back there and he's like, yo, what's up. You need me now. And you're like, I'm good. Well,
• 22:55
  I started writing these thank you notes every day. You know, thank you to every, you know, a person, a place, a thing, a word. And then my buddy Tate, Tate Fletcher, he dropped this line on me. I've actually been talking about this a lot lately. I haven't talked about it recently, but he dropped this line on me and he says, how do you fall in love with your life every day? Okay.
• 23:18
  And so that's what it became. It became a constant search for things to fall in love with my life. And this is where you and I, again, we talked. Sunrise. I met this old guy in Afghanistan. And I wish I knew his name. And it's one of those things where this is after I started really taking note on people's names. But every day at like 5 a.m., I'd hear this door slam.
• 23:39
  Boom, boom. And I'm like, what is going on? So finally, one day I get up and I'm mad. I'm going to go confront him, right? I'm going to go, stop slamming the door. And I walk outside and this old dude's walking upstairs. Nobody goes upstairs, right? And we're in Afghanistan. We're on this big building. He's walking upstairs. And I was like, okay, let me follow this dude and see what he's doing. And I go in and I sit down and I talk to him. I'm like, what are you doing, man? And he's like, I'm watching the sunrise. He's like, I do it every day.
• 24:05
  I was like, why? And he's like, brother, I'm 67 years old in Afghanistan. I don't know how many days I have left. And I just, yeah. And it just hit me. I don't know what about what it was, you know, I'm in that moment, I'm in that frame. And so it hit me. And so I would tell you, get small, get appreciative, find some gratitude. Here's the one I think people don't know or do enough of. And I think it's, I think you got to romanticize your life.
• 24:29
  Your life's romantic, man, including the failures, right? If your life was all just Stepford, 100%, all wins, all, you'd get bored. You wouldn't like it.
• 24:39
  You know, and so sometimes those failures, those catalysts, those heart, those heartbreaks are catalysts for the things that make you, you, right? The more me I become, the better I am. But the more me I become, it's because of all the things that have happened, good, bad and different. The hardships I've undertaken, but here's the here's the other one, too, is also the hardships I've put people through.
• 25:02
  And so being able to recognize that and feel that and actually like live with it and not in some way where I'm like, Oh, woe is me. I was bad person, but like, don't do that again. I can't wait to see you again and hug you, man. I, this is so good. You have this journal coming out that you talked about. So give me a spoiler alert and tell me a couple of journal prompts that are near and dear to your heart. And, and how did that help?
• 25:28
  writing this journal, how did it help you process all that stuff going on in your head? The first thing I'd say is this, man, like what you were talking about, like how to help people. I think the other way to kind of help yourself is to know yourself. And I think that's what journaling has done for me.
• 25:43
  It's gave me the best position possible to know who I am without any interference, any outside noise. Because you can be as honest and as mean, as nasty, as cool, as not cool. Whatever it needs to happen, it happens between those pages. The journal prompt that I love, which I actually stole from my buddy, Brandon, is when was the last time you broke your own heart?
• 26:07
  And I think that's the one for me because there's a lot of guys out here who maybe they don't have the kind of trauma people are on the TV talking about and everything else. But what they have is the vestiges of whatever has happened to them and how they how that affects their family, how that affects the first woman they love, how that affects, you know, the thing that they that they want more than ever. And then it never happens.
• 26:33
  right? Because maybe you're not wise enough to wake up early. Maybe you're not wise enough to shut your mouth, right? Or whatever the thing is. And so I think that's a really important one, man. It's like, how and when did you break your own heart? And like, now what are you going to do about it? You see me get quiet because I'm sitting here thinking, I break my heart almost once a day when I lose my cool.
• 26:58
  You know, and it happens. You guys, I know that in social media, it looks, I get it from all my people in my coaching program. Like, oh, your life looks so easy, man. It's not. I went to sleep last night. I was barking at my girlfriend. I wore myself out. I worked two weeks and four days and I was exhausted. I had nothing left in the tank last night. I rested up.
• 27:21
  And I just, I gotta go. I couldn't talk. And I went to sleep. I woke up and I was miserable this morning. I literally was not happy. And that broke my heart. I'm like, I have nothing in the world to be unhappy about. And on my way to the gym this morning at four 50 or five o'clock, whatever time it was, I literally had a conversation with God said, God, I need you right now. So God is big in my life. All of a sudden, I don't know what it is. I just have these conversations with God and,
• 27:49
  Everything gets better. I know it sounds woo wooey, but how does God play or how does God play a role in you and you? No, man, you're going to get me now. So I've never said this online because it's just recently happened. I think to the point I don't know how to talk about it. I am just now starting to find God. Me too, bro. That's why we're connected.
• 28:11
  There's something out there that's always been looking out. Think about it. All these places you stormed and it get gun jammed. Or how many times did you live when you should look at you cry? Man, I love you. I love you. If you're watching this, he's all emotional. Go there, bro. You know, it's funny. Cause, um, man, like I was talking to one of my brothers, Coast Guard dude. He did the Coast Guard thing, special operations they have. And we were having our, our, our,
• 28:42
  every three month phone call where we check in and we're doing the thing. And this is a hard dude, bad man. I love him to death, man. He's a good man though. And we're getting halfway through the conversation and he looks at me and he goes, or he looks at me, but we're talking and he goes, cause I brought up something about God. I told him, I said, Hey man, I don't know what to do, but when I take this walk, I think it's with you.
• 29:11
  And he goes, excuse me. He goes, he goes, let me pray for you. Bro, I cried. Like cried. And it just keeps happening. So it's funny you brought that up because it's like, it's one of those things that I, I know we're going there. I don't know how we're getting there. And just keep stepping step after step.
• 29:38
  So it's funny, you know, you say that and it's like, you ask for help or, or maybe strength to, to, to, you know, straighten your backbone a little bit. But, um, so, I mean, I think that's the role that it plays for me is that it's right now is that I know I'm going into a lot of, uh, uncertainty that I want to go into. I'm not, it's not, it's not any like I'm sad or whatever about it, but it's like,
• 30:07
  how often did you have a thing happen and you wanted to attribute it to just you, but it's probably larger. Even Tate, man. And if I think about it, some of the conversations I had with him, he never talks about it directly, but he even says, he's like, look at God move. And then he'll just, he'll say that and he'll be out. And so, you know, I saw, yeah, it's, it's big, man. You know? Um,
• 30:30
  What I would say to the thing you're talking about, that was like two things, right? Guys, I think guys like you and people who are in charge and have all these things going on, I think a lot of times people believe that we're always surrounded by people who say yes and who have, and nothing's a struggle in that sense. Like they think we have struggles, but they don't think we have the struggle of like challenge, right? That kind of challenge. Cause I, it's funny. I had somebody recently go,
• 30:59
  Like I'm here to challenge you. And I'm like, I got enough. It's like, I got enough. We're good. One of the things that I'm starting to land on when we talk about what makes a man a man or maybe even just a person, a full-fledged whole person is your ability to love someone is also in recognition that you can destroy them.
• 31:24
  Right? Because now you've been given this power, this grant, you've been granted this access, you've been granted this thing into someone or somebody or whatever. And they've said, hey, here's my vulnerability, here's my intimacy, here's my whatever. And I'm asking you to be a good steward of this.
• 31:43
  What about if it's their ability to destroy you? It's same. It's surrendering and allowing them to absolutely destroy you. The one word I haven't heard you say is surrender. Well, it's so funny you say that. So I actually got a message from my friend, Jonah, and she said to me, she goes, if I find love again, what would you want from me?
• 32:08
  Like, what would you want for that person to have in my life? And I, and I, and I haven't hit sins yet. Cause I wanted to think about it. But the, the, the last part I wrote was surrender or submission and not in some like this internet women need, like, I believe truly with all of my heart, especially after going back and doing the things that I've kind of done in my own life, that part of love and part of
• 32:35
  Everything, there's a submission. There's a submission to life that makes life easier. Whether you're talking about, again, like I'm not, I'm no, I'm no religious expert, God or my relationships or even just the whims of life. Right? Like one of my favorite quotes, the guy says, what's the secret to you? He's like, what's your secret to not, I think, what's your secret to being so easy or something like that? And the guy's, he goes, the secret is I don't mind.
• 33:03
  I don't mind what happens. And to me, that's surrender. That's a mission. I'm submitted to the fact that this is the will. This is the way it will happen. I'm going to share a story with you because it just happened just as I was leaving. So I, when we learned that we didn't have anything on Sunday, I, I, for the event, I booked a flight out of there, took the 6 a.m. flight bolted. That's why I didn't get to say goodbye. And I wanted to get home to my daughter with my day with my daughter.
• 33:27
  And I get, of course, I booked a last minute flight. I end up in the middle seat between two large ladies. And I'm squeezed in. And the captain comes on and says, we're going to be, it's going to be turbulent. He's like, we've got all kinds of weather we're going through. And I'm like, oh.
• 33:45
  And we took off and it was turbulent. And I wanted to use the time to reflect on what I'd learned, the souls that I've touched, the people that I had graced. And it, it got really turbulent. And I'm throwing around in between these two women. I just said, God, and I had a specific ass. I said, I need to, I need some clarity time. And I need to not call, would you please call them this, smooth this plane out so I can just think.
• 34:14
  Johansson, I'm lying. If I'm lying, I'm dying. It was about 30 seconds later. And I was a very specific ass, completely calm. And we never had another bump the rest of the plane ride home. And I was leaving. I was left Wilmington. I went to Atlanta. When we took off out of Atlanta, it was crazy. And just smoothed it right out. And I was able to sit there and take notes about my weekend.
• 34:38
  And I'm telling you, you don't believe God is real. Replace it with energy, replace it with source, ask specifically, and then wait and watch. I feel like I'm walking one with God. And the more that I surrender, the more it allows, but it's, I'm God-like, because he made me, we're one in the same. So it's, I am carrying that message. And the more that we surrender, when we talk about friendship, because you are the company you keep,
• 35:06
  How do you define true friendship and why is it such a premium service? My answer would be that's who's fueling you because you look at who I surround myself with, man. I mean, I got freaking Steven. I met him through a guy that I met at an event like you and we just connected and he –
• 35:26
  breathes into me and you should see how hard he is on me and i love it like we'll record solo episodes he's like do it again yeah until we get it right and i love that man um one i'll say this right so when i was going through everything in 2017 2018 um you recognize who real friends are like everybody thinks you know what a real friend is right and then all of a sudden you
• 35:54
  it's 2 a.m. and only certain people answer. And don't get me wrong, I understand people have lives and things like that, so that's not what I'm getting to, that you have to answer every time. I'm just saying that like, you know the difference all of a sudden. Also, like I, and again, I say a lot of these things kind of like, you know, pithy statements or whatever, but like, it only takes six people to carry a casket. A lot of times we worry about how many, quantity instead of quality.
• 36:23
  Right. And so now I want people who, like you said, they're going to be challenging in the way of like, they're not going to allow me to be not my best self. Right. One of the things I think of a lot is when I was at my worst when I was married. Right. I was around guys who were also at their worst. Right.
• 36:47
  Those were the guys who, when I would talk about, hey, what I'm going to do on Saturday night, they'd be like, yeah, you know, all the whatever. And then this funny thing happened. I got to a different office and I was working with these guys, man, that were just all killers, but they were all just in love with their wives and just the thing that you actually want to pattern yourself after.
• 37:16
  And I got quiet. And I didn't realize I was quiet at first. And then something happened one day and I realized, I think I went to go say something. And I was going to say something that's not appropriate. And I was like, oh. And it was like a real moment of like, I don't want to say shame, but it's probably the closest it was. It's like, oh, you're doing wrong. You know, you're no longer surrounded by people who are going to advocate for your wrong.
• 37:47
  Right? And so I think that's one of those things too, is like, right, here's a good, to me, the mark of a good friend. They're still your friend, but they're going to tell you you're wrong. And then they're going to tell you, don't come crying to me after you do wrong. I'm still going to love you. But when you come on Monday and you get caught up, don't come crying to me. I'm going to help you and everything else. But you deserve this. You deserve every part of this. And that's what my friends are now.
• 38:17
  And that's what the people I have now. And then I think this, and I think what you're kind of saying too, in regards to Steven and even Men of the Swamp, is there's a difference between friends of proximity who are just there because they live across the street. And then the guy who you meet in a horse ring in Wilmington, North Carolina, and now you guys share meaningful conversations and text messages, even if it's every third month. Yeah.
• 38:42
  Those are important. They're more important, I think, than those friends of proximity and the guys who go, let's grab a beer and go watch a game. Right? Those are important too. I had a mentor a long time ago. He told me, he said, there's good dudes and there's good motherfuckers. Good dudes you drink a beer with, good motherfuckers you go to war with. Good stuff. Good dudes. That's the cut right there of the freaking episode. Good dudes and good motherfuckers. You know what?
• 39:10
  Okay, because you're being so transparent, I'll tell you. When I know that a friend is a friend and going to be a lifelong friend, my heart starts being full and beating like I fell in love. I feel that way when I was around you. And as I've done this work on myself and I've surrendered and allowed and been more transparent and more open and talking about these things,
• 39:36
  energetic happenings, they happen more and life keeps getting better and better. So some people listen to this and they can, these two have lost their mind. I don't care because at the end of the day, how good can you handle life? And it just keeps getting better. And I get to connect with people like you and, and impact lives. You know, you're going to be helping people. You've, you've, you've kept this country safe. You've kept yourself safe. You're a father of five. I'm a
• 40:06
  and man, this is so good. Thanks for coming on today, and we still got more time. So I want to ask, you are, we talked about physical fitness.
• 40:16
  Cause you're a big boy and you're cutting, you're in the process of cutting right now. And, uh, that's actually, that's what you were doing there. You were teaching the guys, uh, basic self-defense. And so what role does physical fitness play in your mental wellbeing? We all know for me, it's everything. It's if I can't, I'm in, I did work out one Oh seven for this year today. I'm on my way to 500 for the year. I'm addicted.
• 40:43
  I went to the gym this morning. I told you spiral. I had that conversation with God. I pulled into the gym. I went upstairs and started pounding weights and I went, Oh, he did his, he did. He worked again. And I felt great and left and was great. And I knew I was getting to see you. I got two other podcasts. It's great. It's great. If I don't work out,
• 41:03
  My mentality is shop. What's what's at play for you? Same. I mean, so we we do this thing, man. We call it the the pillars of resilience or and to me, I tell everybody it's the weirdest table on the planet. It's usually five legs, but maybe it's four sometimes. And the number one of those legs for me is physical fitness, because I think a lot of times in order to get out of your own way, you have to get you have to get that out. But also before that, man, fitness for me was a way to push edges and boundaries.
• 41:33
  It was a way to challenge where giving up is. It was a way to figure out where those lines are within you, right? Like sometimes you meet people and they're just willing, they're not willing to take another step.
• 41:47
  And I think that a lot of times, like when you train, that's what happens is you know where that line is, right? I know that I can work 48 hours and then follow these kids around King's Dominion or, you know, and that's an easy one. If I have to climb a 14er, I can do it on three bottles of water, even though it's not smart.
• 42:07
  Right? Like I know what I'm capable of, or I know where the boundaries are at least. And then a lot of times you push past them. So it's been huge. It's been huge for me because for a long time, it was for a reason, right? It was for deployments and to move on to new units and things like that. But then it also became a thing where it just, like you said, it becomes a part of you. I don't go too many days without training.
• 42:37
  Right. I don't go too many days without some kind of physical activity. I think it keeps me sharp and it's one of the tools I use to make sure that I am well. Right. I have a I have a tattoo on my hand that says monks don't retire. And so good. The purpose of it is to remember the things that keep me well, the things that got me well, keep me well. And so. I train because it keeps me well.
• 43:06
  I was well documented that my why is my daughter and Ed Milet talks about be the one, the one in your family that, that breaks the chains of abuse. And I, I'm that one. I, I,
• 43:16
  nobody graduated college. Nobody has been successful. Nobody's everybody's not doing well. And I'm the one and I do it to pay it forward for my daughter. We've talked briefly about your five children. How has fatherhood changed your perspective on leadership and discipline? Man. Oh man. Um,
• 43:39
  I mean, every way possible, man, right? Like I said a bit earlier, like everything from the fact of like, how and when do I get involved? Because I don't want to have children that are not representative of the things that I like or want to be a part of, right? Like we've all met adults who you're like, how did you get here? Right?
• 43:58
  How do you tie your shoes? Yeah. Like, you know, or, or they, they say things and you're just like, man, like, I wish you, you know, I wish you well in life, but that's, that's not the brightest thing to say or whatever it is. Right. And you don't want your kids to be those, those same people. And so a lot of times, you know, you think about like, well, how do I give my kids this good life, but also give them enough where they're, they don't.
• 44:22
  skip some of those steps. Right. I treat a lot of the stuff with the kids is like, I don't want to say experiments, but I'm doing it to see what they act like in real time. So I recently took them to do a wind tunnel, like the skydiving wind tunnels. And this is just what a lot of the stuff is for me. It's fun. But for me as dad, I was there checking to see how they handle uncomfortable and nervous. Right. Right.
• 44:50
  Like we do some breathing stuff every now and then. We do a little breathing drills, Brian Peters, you know, and I want to see before they get in that wind tunnel, do they handle it? Do they do the things we talk about? I want to see what kind of people they are when they walk up to a stranger individually without me there.
• 45:10
  I wanna see how they interact with other kids and everything else. And so, that's a lot of what these things are. And I'm also blessed because my children, their mother's amazing, right? And then as far as discipline is concerned and everything else, man, I'm lucky. I don't know how I got this lucky.
• 45:28
  I was a hell raiser, man. I was a hell raiser. My kids have been fantastic. My oldest boy is remarkable in the sense that I don't know another kid who calls and says and asks the question and then he listens and then he implements it. And if he doesn't implement it, he's very transparent about it.
• 45:49
  You know, my oldest girl's got the, the, just the best heart, the best heart, you know, she, she's, I want to go work with kids, uh, uh, who have cancer, you know, so she's a nurse and that's, that's her. And so I'm, I'm lucky, man. I just, um, but I think a lot of it is example, you know, my, my ex-wife and I had this conversation a while ago about, um, examples versus what we say. And I'll never forget,
• 46:19
  the way it was reinforced to me is I walked by my youngest boy's room and he's got his hands behind his head and he's got his legs crossed and he's kicked up hanging out. And I was like, I wonder who does that. It's what I do when I'm hanging out. And I was like, talk about examples, talk about a hidden example.
• 46:43
  There it is. A lot of the thought leaders call it things are caught, not taught. I disagree. I think they're caught and taught. And I think you have to read the cop because they watch what you're doing. But you also have to explain why. And I do the explaining over and over and over and over again. And I'll be full disclosure. I have overcorrected abundance of love. I grew up with no love, no safety, no.
• 47:09
  This kid grew up with so much love. I don't go a single day without telling her I love her multiple times a day. And when I'm not with her, I text her, I love her. I have overcorrected. It came out. You talk about you being lucky. It's no luck, man. My daughter is kind.
• 47:25
  Now, she doesn't have that frickin' tenacity to survive like I do, but she hasn't needed to. So I love it. I have two more questions, and we're getting up against it, so let's try to make these a little short, but these are good. What's something you wish more men talked about openly? Safety. Ooh. Say more. Say more.
• 47:46
  I and this is just just when I came to this week, man, and I'll say and I'll say this in regards to relationships. The more I coach men and the more I coach myself and deal with everything. I was a guy who was very like, oh, the safety thing. What do you mean? I'm safe all the time. Yeah, I'm physically safe.
• 48:04
  I'm always physically safe because I've been lucky, right? I'm trained. I know how to shoot. I can fight. You know, I'm physically safe. But the ability to be safe within your relationship and say the thing and do the thing and not have it come back on you. The ability to understand how important that is. The ability to know that.
• 48:22
  with this woman or my friends or whatever, we are safe here. And I think one of the things that we have right now with young men and people in general is they don't have that or they don't understand how important it is. I didn't, full disclosure, full stop. I had no clue that
• 48:43
  safety in that version mattered to me until it mattered until I understood it and recognized it. And even more so now when I coach guys and I realize that they're in a relationship that is not safe, not because she's going to fight him or beat him or something like that, but because he can't be him. And, and I think that's one that at least I landed on this week. So that's the answer. How did I provide you emotional safety enough for you to open up right away and just
• 49:12
  What did I, cause I want to repeat that here. So I think there's a difference between. Um, how do I say this? Right. There's a difference between how you doing and where's your heart. You know what I mean? This is a side, but we'll get back. Hopefully it makes sense. Guys will be like, Hey man, like how do you teach confidence or charisma? Yeah.
• 49:38
  And so like you can, right? What's confidence and charisma look like? It looks like me looking you in the eyes. It looks like me shaking your hand. It looks like me remembering your name. It looks like me remembering things about you, right? Well, when it comes to safety, what does that look like? What does that feel like?
• 49:57
  It looks like me remembering things about you, knowing you. It's also me not being the guy who takes up all the space where if you say something dumb, I jump on you. Right. It looks like you being open enough to say the thing before I even say the thing.
• 50:16
  Right. And that's what you did. You approached me and you started talking immediately and Rudy too, because Rudy said something that threw me off. Like, and I was just like, whoa. And, and, and then, and this is where I'll, I'll give myself a pat on the back is that I, I'm to a point now where I am. Okay. Right. Like it's funny. You said it earlier. Like my life is so, so awesome. Right.
• 50:45
  that even if you don't get it and you're not with it or you think that the way I live is whatever, we're good. We're good, I'm fine. I'll be at the mountain when you wanna come hang out, man. Like, you know, I told you like, that's where I think about that mountain top all the time. And so, and some people meet me and they're like, all right, what's this guy on? And I want some and other people were like, no, thank you. And that's fine.
• 51:13
  When you're ready, if you're ever ready, I'll walk up there with you. We'll be here. We'll be here. Yeah. I got to ask one more question because it's so it's fitting. If you could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be? And boys, listen to this. This is going to be a doozy. I'm going to cheat and I'm going to give you a part three. I'm going to give you three quick parts. Perspective.
• 51:37
  I think perspective is everything. But you don't have it when you're young. You don't. But what I mean is you can find it, right? And the way I think about perspective is like a map. When you lay a map on the table one way, it's north. When you turn it the other way, north is still there, but maybe you're looking at it the wrong way. Yeah.
• 51:56
  And so I think that's just perspective. Perspective is being able to see that when things go wrong, it can still be right. In fact, they usually are. What doesn't work out for you actually ends up working out for you guys. And most of the time, it's a time problem. I want it. I want it now. Two, I would say the thing that I've.
• 52:17
  kind of been complimented on or told a lot lately I wish I would have known then and that's it's completely okay to be a tough guy who has full range control and understanding of their emotions and who and what they are and then the very last thing I would say is go to speed limit it's so easy to go 100 miles an hour all the time
• 52:47
  But if you slow down, and we'll talk about it from like a romantic partner perspective. If you slow down, you notice that maybe she shuddered a little bit when she talked to you this morning, because she's sad, and she doesn't know when to say it, right? If you slow down,
• 53:06
  maybe you notice your daughter or your son, they stand a little bit closer to you. And I think that's been the biggest thing that's happened to me recently over the past two years, the ability to slow down and really feel it and take it. And this is the one, and I'll try not to cry this time, but this is what I told you about when we first met and we ended up in the field crying, is my son does this thing. My youngest boy does this thing where he stands on me
• 53:34
  And there's this part of me that would just get so frustrated because, you know, I'm tripping over him. We're in the grocery store and I'm tripping over him, but he's like right on me. And then I realized, I said, oh, this kid loves me. He just wants to be closer. And so that's one of those things where if you're not, if you're going fast, you don't, you don't, you don't recognize it. And so slow down and just go, oh, okay. I trip a little bit more on Sunday. No big deal. I got a kid who's with me. That's what I would tell you.
• 54:04
  That's perspective. This is so good. Guys, you just got to see what happens in my coaching community. This is the best coaching call, but it was just two friends just talking. So if you want more of this,
• 54:16
  Please share this episode with people, with other men, women. We have everybody in the group. If you want to get access to this, reach out to me in the DMs and Instagram. We'll get you into the coaching program. This was so good. I love you. Thank you for sharing. How can people support your work and get involved in the mission you're on?
• 54:35
  I'm a traveling man on Instagram. We are warpath.com. We're finally doing new releases. We stopped for a little while trying to professionalize the business. So we'll be dropping two pieces of apparel a month. We have the book coming sub stack. And the thing that we don't really advertise, but we do, we do a lot of is a lot of video production and which we fell into. But yeah.
• 55:00
  Well, make me a promise that the next time you go see grandma here, that we do something. Obviously, we're going to have dinner, but let's do something to support your brand. And then the people that are in the Heart of the Life coaching community, I'll have him in one of our sessions as well to share his beautifulness. I'm going to say this for the country and for all the Heart of the Life nation. I love you. We love you. I'm glad you're here.
• 55:26
  Thank you so much for being harder than life. I appreciate you, man. Thank you. Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.