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Restoring clarity: The power of targeted nutrition for the aging brain · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:08
  Hard-hitting medical truth, cutting through conflict and confusion to the understanding you're searching for.
• 0:15
  Join Dr.
• 0:16
  Peter McCullough, world-renowned medical expert and practicing physician for this edition of the McCullough Report.
• 0:24
  Your life may depend on it.
• 0:26
  Let's get real.
• 0:27
  Let's get loud.
• 0:28
  On America Out Loud Talk News, this is a McCullough report and focal point substack.
• 0:32
  It's a wonderful opportunity and a great honor for me to invite back to the microphone, Dr.
• 0:39
  John Lewis.
• 0:40
  Dr.
• 0:40
  John Lewis is a nutrition expert.
• 0:43
  He's a research scientist, and someone who has taken a great interest in a problem that's really near and dear to my heart, and that is cognitive decline.
• 0:55
  We're talking dementia, Alzheimer's disease, uh something that I think has touched probably family members of almost everybody listening today.
• 1:03
  Dr.
• 1:04
  Lewis, welcome to the program.
• 1:05
  Dr.
• 1:06
  McCullough, thank you for having me.
• 1:07
  It's a great pleasure to be with you again today.
• 1:10
  You know, you and I first uh joined over the inverted food pyramid by Robert F.
• 1:16
  Kennedy Jr.
• 1:17
  And um, and you said, you know, uh really I'm dealing with something much more serious and a much bigger part of your research career, and that deals with cognitive decline.
• 1:29
  Um how big of a problem is this?
• 1:32
  And and you know, what's your view on uh on why this is of public health importance?
• 1:39
  Well, first of all, as you and I have discussed offline, I I know how personal this is for you as well, and so I appreciate that comment.
• 1:45
  It is it is, as you know, it is a tremendous problem.
• 1:49
  We now have an estimated six million Americans with Alzheimer's.
• 1:53
  We have another eight million estimated to have different forms of dementia, either vascular, lewy body, uh frontal temporal other types.
• 2:02
  So we're talking 14, maybe even as many as 15 million Americans who have this tragic, horrific disease.
• 2:10
  It's costing us the numbers are just the financial numbers are staggering.
• 2:15
  Somewhere between 500 billion and one trillion dollars per year in direct and indirect care costs.
• 2:22
  Oh my lord.
• 2:23
  Oh my lord.
• 2:24
  The numbers are just staggering.
• 2:26
  It's like infinity money.
• 2:28
  Yeah, it's infinity and the amount of uh labor, and you know, many of you know my father actually died with Alzheimer's disease.
• 2:36
  Uh he never wanted to be transported to a hospital.
• 2:39
  He died in a memory care unit, and now my mom is in the same unit and requires 24 by seven care.
• 2:47
  And and she's got a good strong heart.
• 2:50
  Uh, she, you know, other organs are fine.
• 2:54
  It in it makes you think, you know, how long can this intensive period of time where such care needs are are required?
• 3:03
  And you know, where are the limits of resources here?
• 3:08
  That's right.
• 3:08
  Well, and the other and the other aspect to that, the caregiving aspect, I bet you know as well that the research should suggest that the primary caregiver of a person with Alzheimer's disease also has the worst health outcomes of any other type of caregiver.
• 3:24
  So not only is it devastating to the person who gets it gets the disease, it's devastating to the person who's responsible for the primary care of that person.
• 3:34
  Well, I I didn't know that, but as it turned out, my dad went first, and my mom was the caregiver, and then you know, years later, then my mom develops the same exact problem, and now you know, is falling upon family members, myself and others, and and we're fortunate to be able to, you know, have the resources to so I can practice medicine and and um uh you know, my mom gets good care in a facility literally less than a mile away, and then my wife's mother, we take care of her in our home.
• 4:05
  Can you imagine if we had two?
• 4:07
  Uh but but um, you know, I I see it as a giant problem.
• 4:13
  Uh many of uh our you know in the audience can relate to this, whether it's a direct family member, uh a spouse, or you're just generally aware of this, that we have our health span, that you know, number of years of our live and we're healthy, and we can you know make our own decisions and do all the things we want to do, and then we have our lifespan, that is the numerical years that we're gonna live.
• 4:37
  The difference between the end of a health span and the end of a lifespan on average, published in JAMA recently, 11 years.
• 4:44
  11 years of time, you know, more than a decade.
• 4:48
  And so for my mom, her health span ended, you know, I think somewhere around 79 or or 80, and now she's 87.
• 4:57
  She's nine years into this extended period of time where the care needs of have escalated.
• 5:04
  And so one can only think that unless we can find a method of prevention.
• 5:14
  That's right, that this is going to get worse for America and people all over the world.
• 5:19
  I totally agree with you.
• 5:20
  And it is just to add one more sad statistic to this story.
• 5:24
  It's now the fifth or sixth leading killer of Americans, depending on which statistics you want to refer to.
• 5:29
  And it's also the number one killer in the United Kingdom.
• 5:32
  How about that?
• 5:33
  So it's it's tragic, as you know.
• 5:37
  And people do actually die of the disease.
• 5:40
  So I think this is important to understand.
• 5:44
  Um I remember when my uh my father got to the point where you know his m his memory and his cognitive function was so bad, he was actually forgetting to eat and forgetting to drink.
• 5:59
  So even hunger and thirst.
• 6:01
  And a few times we, you know, we we visited him and there was the food sitting there cold, he didn't touch it.
• 6:06
  And I said, Dad, did you he goes, well, I just forgot.
• 6:10
  And uh over this period of cognitive decline, I think his weight loss was over 60 pounds.
• 6:16
  Wow.
• 6:16
  And uh, and then one day he's just found uh dead in his sleep.
• 6:21
  Um many ways, you know, God was merciful.
• 6:24
  But but uh there is a real mortality rate when people get to the point of having forms of cognitive decline and dementia, Alzheimer's disease, what have you, and then they're in forms of uh assisted living or even skilled nursing.
• 6:39
  And I think one statistic I read was that the longevity at that state, when you're at that state, is about two years.
• 6:48
  I think so too.
• 6:50
  Yes.
• 6:52
  Wow.
• 6:53
  Well, you guys have had a way bigger burden than the average family, then with both of your parents having had this terrible disease.
• 7:00
  This terrible disease, I my heart really goes out to you guys based on my own experiences with this disease.
• 7:01
  I my heart really goes out to you guys based on my own experiences with this disease.
• 7:06
  No, it's true.
• 7:06
  No, there it's true.
• 7:07
  And now, having said that, there are what's called cognitive superagers, Dr.
• 7:07
  And now, having said that, there are what's called cognitive superagers, Dr.
• 7:14
  Lewis.
• 7:14
  Lewis.
• 7:14
  This is a very interesting.
• 7:14
  This is a very interesting.
• 7:15
  There are people who make it to 90.
• 7:15
  There are people who make it to 90.
• 7:17
  There's some studies at age 90, and studies of people making to 100, and they're perfectly cognitively intact.
• 7:17
  There's some studies at age 90, and studies of people making to 100, and they're perfectly cognitively intact.
• 7:25
  They're perfectly intact.
• 7:25
  They're perfectly intact.
• 7:26
  Now, um, the interesting thing is when they get various forms of advanced brain scans, there are no cerebral plaques.
• 7:26
  Now, um, the interesting thing is when they get very
• 7:36
  So it seems like these plaques or these folded protein units that are discovered in the brains of people who begin to have that seems to be this is an important clue in the puzzle.
• 7:48
  I agree totally.
• 7:49
  And it's it's also, as you well know, having had such personal experience with it, it's fascinating when you look at how people distinguish between Alzheimer's when somebody is, you know, maybe they've decided to give their body to science after they die, and they get clinically diagnosed with Alzheimer's at some point along the way, but then they do a post-mortem brain autopsy, and then there is none of that stuff.
• 8:15
  Like that's fascinating to me too.
• 8:16
  Like there's another segment of, I think it's around 30% of people who are clinically diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but then after they die, they actually didn't have any of the morphological changes.
• 8:28
  Yes.
• 8:29
  Oh, I I you know, I didn't know that.
• 8:31
  That's fascinating too.
• 8:32
  Yes.
• 8:33
  Now there's another syndrome.
• 8:35
  This has affected a family member of um my co-author, John Leake.
• 8:40
  And that's called Lewy body dementia.
• 8:43
  So Lewy body has a characteristic histopathological um finding on the brain when the brain's uh you know undergone necropsy, and they're called Lewy bodies, but that dementia is known for it has the features of Alzheimer's disease, but of interest, it it characteristically has features of hallucination.
• 9:04
  Hallucination.
• 9:05
  So seeing things that don't exist, um certainly heavy delusions, delusions are firm, fixed false beliefs.
• 9:13
  And so many times it becomes a past situation of uh, you know, a delusion that one is still waiting to pick up their child at school or something like that.
• 9:24
  Wow.
• 9:24
  And with Lewy buttons.
• 9:26
  Schizophrenia have any increased risk of Lewy body, or is that totally ever?
• 9:31
  No, I I don't think so.
• 9:32
  I think it's just uh, you know, it's a it's a specific neurocognitive neuropsychiatric syndrome that gets bucketed in with this Alzheimer's.
• 9:42
  Um, but importantly with Lewy body, there is a rate of actually having seizures.
• 9:47
  So there can be epilepsy.
• 9:49
  And then very importantly, there's a loss of the um sympathetic tone.
• 9:54
  So our three circulating catecholamines are epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine, they're characteristically low.
• 10:00
  And so patients with Lewy body, they develop orthostatic hypotension.
• 10:05
  It's considered NOH, uh neurogenic orthostatic hypotension.
• 10:10
  And there, when I've seen patients like this in my practice, there is a drug that uh seems to be uh very useful for this application of NOH, and it's called droxy dopa.
• 10:22
  So it's like giving a form of a of a more uh modified dopamine precursor, similar to how we would give levatopa in a Parkinson's patient, but it's actually droxy dopa.
• 10:33
  And it reliably raises the levels of these catecholamines, increases venous tone.
• 10:38
  Because what what reason why we're kind of worried about all this is it's hard enough to have dementia or Lewy body dementia.
• 10:46
  But then to fall and have a hip fracture or a radial fracture or cervical fracture on top is just uh almost unbearable for the patient and for the family.
• 10:57
  No doubt about it, especially in isn't hip fracture one of the leading causes of mortality once you get, I think about to 80, isn't it?
• 11:05
  After 80, right there with dementia, you have a very severe risk of mortality with a hip fracture.
• 11:12
  Right.
• 11:12
  So yeah, the mortality is stunning.
• 11:14
  A lot of people don't know this, but you you'll hear a story of I do I take a family history and everybody, and I'll say, well, you know, how did your mother die, your father died?
• 11:22
  And the story would be, well, you know, he was getting older and more feeble, and he he fell and broke his hip, and he died a month or two later.
• 11:29
  I mean, that's actually a common family history vignette.
• 11:34
  And what we know is that you know, with hip fracture, even if there's open reduction in internal fixation, abbreviated or if the rehabilitation is very arduous.
• 11:45
  Many patients become non-ambulatory, they're committed to wheelchairs.
• 11:48
  And the rates of blood clots, uh, devainous thrombosis and pulmonary embolism, as well as uh pneumonia, uh, and then just uh essentially being found dead in bed after hip fracture is very high.
• 12:03
  So uh on top of that is it's painful.
• 12:06
  And so, you know, the last thing we want to see our loved ones at the near the end of their life, hard enough to have all that cognitive decline is to have you know a brutal painful event.
• 12:15
  So I think fall prevention is a is a key aspect of care management for these patients.
• 12:22
  And I was going to ask you, where does obviously prior to a fall, sarcopania certainly would have a role because if you if you have sarcopania and you're weaker, but then do you think that sarcopania also accelerates the mortality after you've had a fall?
• 12:39
  Do you think that's a possibly a contributing factor as well?
• 12:42
  Yeah, there was a huge study years ago of uh patients who developed uh sarcopenia weight loss elderly, and uh the mortality associated with a health event, a fall, a fracture, uh, was extraordinarily high.
• 12:57
  And actually, one of the mechanisms of of death is a pneumonia.
• 13:02
  So pneumonias can occur obviously from community, you know, contagious viruses, but also just from the bacteria in the nose and mouth, pneumococcal pneumonia, homophilus pneumonia, and then commonly uh aspiration, that is having some you know, nasopharyngeal contents that would have been swallowed actually aspirated into the lungs.
• 13:25
  And so uh that's common.
• 13:27
  And so someone who has sarcopenia, reduced muscle mass.
• 13:30
  Remember, I told you my dad lost 60 pounds, he clearly had sarcopenia.
• 13:33
  You know, the ability to survive a low bar pneumonia, like a pneumococcal pneumonia, uh, that ability markedly plummets.
• 13:43
  The other thing I can tell you with cognitive decline and acute illness, the ability to follow commands is key.
• 13:51
  So when things happen and and there's an incentive spirometer, that is a device that actually is used to help inflate the lungs.
• 13:57
  And but the patients have to follow the instructions and do it.
• 14:00
  And do it, the average patient with significant dementia just will not do that during the day unless prompted and just doesn't follow uh commands very well.
• 14:00
  The average patient with uh significant dementia just will not do that during the day unless prompted and just doesn't follow uh commands very well.
• 14:09
  And people will if the command is ring the nurse's call button before you try to get up to go to the bathroom, they either forget or don't follow that command and then try to go to the bathroom themselves and have a trip and fall or have some other you know event happen.
• 14:09
  And people will if the command is ring the nurse's call button before you try to get up to go to the bathroom, they either forget or don't follow that command and then try to go to the bathroom themselves and and have a trip and fall or have some other you know event happen.
• 14:25
  Um so uh anybody listening to this who's had relative.
• 14:25
  Um so uh anybody listening to this who's had relatives in this situation or just observed it, you you you know that we're on base with this conversation.
• 14:34
  And that's the reason why it's so critical, I believe, to come up with strategies now for people, you know, our age or even younger to prevent all this from happening to begin with.
• 14:46
  That's right.
• 14:48
  Well, we and we know now from some of the more recent studies, people are suggesting that neurodegeneration is starting in their in thir in the 30s and 40s.
• 14:57
  So this isn't so this isn't like, oh, well, you're now past middle age, now you need to be concerned.
• 15:02
  No, you need to be concerned about this at a much earlier stage in life if you really want to prevent your brain's uh your brain from deteriorating.
• 15:10
  Oh my lord.
• 15:11
  Well, how good are these neurocognitive tests?
• 15:14
  You know, there are in Dallas, we have the ATT memory center, we've got the UT Southwestern Alzheimer's Center.
• 15:20
  How good are these tests, these batteries of tests that patients go through?
• 15:25
  Well, I think the uh the one that we used uh in our research, the ADAS COG, um, that to me is considered to be not to me, it is considered to be the gold standard for assessing cognitive function, especially in people with different forms of dementia.
• 15:41
  Now, of course, you need somebody like a neuropsychologist, uh, a psychologist, a social worker, a neurologist, a psychiatrist, you've got to have somebody that's pretty well educated and well trained on that.
• 15:53
  That's not just something like the mini-mental, which is a much simpler, although it's really more of a screening tool, not necessarily an assessment tool.
• 16:02
  But uh I think the A-Das COG is amazing.
• 16:05
  I mean, we we relied on that very well in uh in our Alzheimer study.
• 16:09
  We ran a couple of other studies where we used things like the MOCA, the Stroop, the word association test.
• 16:16
  I mean, there are a lot of different cognitive measures out there.
• 16:18
  And I think that actually prompts one thought that I have about all these different measures is when you go to the literature and then you try to make sense out of whatever your intervention or treatment of choice is, and then you see this just wide range of all these different assessments, it tends to make it a bit difficult to compare study A to study B to study C when they've all chosen a different assessment battery.
• 16:44
  It's like, well, what do they mean?
• 16:45
  How do they correlate with each other?
• 16:47
  So that that definitely is a uh I can I think a contributing factor to a bit of confusion in the literature about what is the best or not.
• 16:56
  But definitely the eight-as cog is is very widely respected for its accuracy.
• 17:00
  Yeah, I think it's widely respected and frequently used.
• 17:03
  If, you know, I I'm the type of person in medicine as a doctor.
• 17:06
  Sometimes I just have to pick things and go with it.
• 17:09
  And if I have my choice, I pick the eight-as cog.
• 17:12
  And the other thing too is with these types of assessments, each person serves as their own internal control, right?
• 17:20
  So they get a they get a baseline and then they get a follow-up.
• 17:24
  I mean, that's some of the best uh control you can have is when you have paired data.
• 17:30
  So the same person gets a score.
• 17:33
  And my understanding is, Dr.
• 17:34
  Lewis, that you can't fake it on these tests that they actually reveal the problem, right?
• 17:40
  That's exactly correct.
• 17:42
  There's no faking it on the eight on the eight-as cog.
• 17:44
  You can't possibly fake it.
• 17:46
  Uh, and especially to your point about having the first test as your baseline measure.
• 17:51
  Also, if you have the same neuropsychologist or whoever the professional is redoing the tests each time, that's even another step in your validity of the uh of the answers, right?
• 18:03
  Good point.
• 18:04
  Everyone uh probably can relate to when you're talking to somebody with dementia, there's um a process that you can readily observe.
• 18:11
  It's called confabulation.
• 18:13
  And that is uh there's a missing gap in memory.
• 18:17
  And so there's sometimes there's filling in of the gap.
• 18:21
  And many times there's just kind of a joking or a brushing off of the issue.
• 18:27
  So I'll ask somebody with dementia, you know, who's the president of the United States right now?
• 18:33
  And then the answer is, ha ha, uh, well, you know that fool.
• 18:37
  That uh they'll just kind of laugh laugh it off.
• 18:39
  I said, but but who is it?
• 18:41
  And and so they have learned over time.
• 18:44
  It's a I think it's actually a learned uh behavior in dementia to kind of fill in things by a casual laugh or brushing off or what have you.
• 18:54
  So you can't really figure it out unless you really do something like the A-Das cog, or if you really press on a particular question.
• 19:04
  So, you know, any type of research in this area does need that structured assessment and ideally paired data.
• 19:11
  When there's unpaired data, and you just take one one group at baseline and you kind of you know compare their average score, and then take, you know, the same group, uh, redo the assessment, but compare the average score, you kind of lose the power of each person serving as their own control.
• 19:28
  But if if they're evaluating if they're evaluated as paired data, and statistically, we can do that.
• 19:32
  You actually do paired analyses.
• 19:35
  It does a couple of things for you.
• 19:36
  It it improves the precision, it reduces the variance, and very importantly, it reduces the numbers of people you have to study.
• 19:45
  Exactly.
• 19:46
  Now, these are all great points, especially from a research design perspective, and then being able to make sense out of the data at the end of the day, especially if you're evaluating some type of treatment or intervention that you hope to have some sort of beneficial effect, and you want to be able to show it with something like the ADS COG.
• 20:03
  And one of the reasons why this economy and research is needed, some people say, well, listen, why don't you just study 20,000 people?
• 20:11
  Well, let me tell you, when you have patients with dementia, they're mobile in a certain way you don't realize.
• 20:17
  Means they're moving from house to house, their houses are being sold, they're living, moving in with their parents or their children, they're moving in with siblings, they're moving into you know, uh uh uh assisted living and and and what have you.
• 20:31
  And so they're not so easy to follow up on.
• 20:35
  Uh they they they it's very hard to get phone calls into people like that because uh the the phone either isn't answered, or if there's some commitment to for time on a phone interview, then that's forgotten, right?
• 20:49
  Right.
• 20:50
  So you end up studying a limited number of people, and many times it's in the face-to-face environment.
• 20:56
  And not only that, I would hate to even imagine what a budget would be for a clinical trial of 20,000 people.
• 21:00
  For a clinical trial of 20,000 people.
• 21:04
  I can't even imagine what that would cost.
• 21:04
  I can't even imagine what that would cost.
• 21:06
  Well, well, I mean, the costs here, the cost here are really in this subject follow-up uh compliance.
• 21:06
  Well, I mean, the costs here, the cost here are really in this subject follow-up uh compliance.
• 21:14
  You know, when you're doing a study of young people and they're getting paid a little money to be in the study, and they show up to a clinical research center and they fill out the forms.
• 21:14
  You know, when you're doing a study of young people and they're getting paid a little money to be in the study, and they show up to a clinical research center and they fill out the forms.
• 21:23
  And and I remember as a medical student, there was some medical students in my class.
• 21:23
  And I remember as a medical student, there was some medical students in my class.
• 21:27
  They actually made this like a moonlighting job.
• 21:27
  They actually made this like a moonlighting job where they were study subjects and all these different studies.
• 21:33
  They would, you know, half the time, one of my friends is like, where did you sleep last night?
• 21:37
  Well, I was in the sleep center.
• 21:39
  I'm a subject in a sleep study.
• 21:41
  And then he was a study, and uh, you know, I'm I uh I went through all these scans, and now I'm a bone densitometry uh subject.
• 21:48
  So a lot of the medical students and nursing students become study subjects and they're studying various processes, and it's a you know, it's a fair thing to do.
• 21:56
  But it's very different when you're trying to study somebody with uh this condition of neurocognitive decline.
• 22:02
  However, it should be easier to study people if you could get some measure to study the prevention of the problem, or very early in the continuum.
• 22:14
  Right.
• 22:15
  I totally agree.
• 22:16
  I mean, my experience with with our clinical trial and people with Alzheimer's, the good news was that we had the most motivated group of people I've ever met in my life collectively, and that was the that group of primary caregivers.
• 22:32
  Of course, they were desperate to find something for their loved one.
• 22:36
  The patient, the the person with Alzheimer's, depending on his or her severity, you know, really didn't have any input in terms of compliance or as you said, they could be moved from one family member's home to another because of circumstances.
• 22:52
  But I could I totally agree with you.
• 22:55
  I mean, I I had kind of the same experience in school.
• 22:57
  I had uh because of you know, my interest in research.
• 23:01
  I a lot of my friends and I, we would we would participate in studies.
• 23:05
  Uh you did it too.
• 23:07
  Yep, to make a little extra money.
• 23:09
  Um, and so I I know that's why I was laughing because I know very well why folks do that at that age because of, you know, just either personal interest or needing to make some extra bucks or whatever, but but I agree with you.
• 23:22
  I mean, that's definitely the population where you have probably a much more engaged audience to be able to connect with.
• 23:30
  And then if you do some kind of an intervention or a follow-up where you can actually get those people pretty readily as a paired as compared to people with neurodegeneration.
• 23:40
  Well, I can tell you, I'm 63 years old, and with my family history.
• 23:45
  Um, I'm highly motivated to be a subject in an Alzheimer's prevention study.
• 23:50
  And and I know I've, you know, I've I give a lot of public programs, and I've been out there uh, you know, meeting the masses now for many years, and I know there's a lot of people in my shoes.
• 23:59
  We've been talking to Dr.
• 24:01
  John Lewis, who is an expert in nutrition health and nutraceuticals, an expert in neurocognitive decline.
• 24:08
  We've been kind of setting the stage for his critical work done uh in Alzheimer's disease.
• 24:13
  And we're gonna pick this up on the uh the second half of the program.
• 24:16
  You're listening to the McCullough Report.
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• 26:42
  Well, only when the government bows to the people will America become great again.
• 26:47
  So this is Malcolm Outlaw here.
• 26:50
  Join me in pushing back against censorship, my fellow Americans.
• 26:55
  Right at the top of America Outloud Doc News are the words.
• 26:59
  Many voices, one freedom, united in the First Amendment.
• 27:07
  Now is our time, my fellow Americans.
• 27:11
  America outlawed.news, liberty and justice for all.
• 27:27
  On the other side of the microphone, is Dr.
• 27:30
  John Lewis.
• 27:31
  And let me tell you, he has done terrific work.
• 27:33
  He's previously, you know, as a as a um, you know, had major academic standing at a medical school, has really now with his innovations brought it to the public as an entrepreneur.
• 27:44
  Uh let's get back to this uh topic at hand and why don't you set the stage for your pivotal research?
• 27:51
  You know, what we talked about the population, how you settled on the product mix and then undertook the research.
• 28:00
  I'd be happy to.
• 28:00
  I'd be happy to.
• 28:01
  So I I really, as we probably discussed a little bit in our previous conversation, I I got involved with um polysaccharides, these complex sugars from aloe vera and rice print, thanks to my meeting with Dr.
• 28:01
  So I I really, as we probably discussed a little bit in our previous conversation, I got involved with um polysaccharides, these complex sugars from aloe vera and rice print, thanks to my meeting with Dr.
• 28:15
  Reg McDaniel about 20 years ago.
• 28:15
  Reggie McDaniel about 20 years ago.
• 28:17
  And Dr.
• 28:17
  And Dr.
• 28:18
  McDaniel was a pathologist by training who about 20 years prior to that had met a group of guys that were taking an aloe vera product.
• 28:18
  McDaniel was a pathologist by training who about 20 years prior to that had met a group of guys that were taking an aloe vera product.
• 28:25
  They were having uh, they were HIV positive, they had no viral.
• 28:25
  They were having uh they were HIV positive, they had no viral load, and their CD4 cells were normal.
• 28:32
  Total medical heresy.
• 28:34
  And Reg being the typical pathologist uh Texan that he is, he was like, What in the world are you talking about?
• 28:41
  He kept shooing them out of his office.
• 28:43
  He thought it was a farce basically.
• 28:46
  Um, but thankfully they did not take no for an answer, and it ended up changing his life to where he went from running a pathology unit there at a hospital in Dallas to practicing nutrition of all things.
• 28:57
  And so he and his buddies at Texas AM, they started looking into these polysaccharides and different forms of viruses, uh, different forms of cancer.
• 29:07
  And then about 20 years later, fast forward, he meets me.
• 29:10
  Here I am at the University of Miami at the medical school.
• 29:13
  I'm doing my own set of research and different forms or different topics in nutrition and whatnot.
• 29:18
  And I meet Reg and he starts telling me about complex sugars from aloe vera.
• 29:23
  And I'm like, Well, what in the world are you talking about?
• 29:26
  And uh it just completely changed my, not only my career, but my life.
• 29:30
  And so Reg was at a conference talking about some of his anecdotal experiences with these polysaccharides and Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
• 29:39
  And there happened to be a lady in the audience who she and her husband had lost four family members to Alzheimer's disease, much like yourself, very personally affected by this disease.
• 29:50
  And they got to know Reg.
• 29:51
  They developed a relationship and a friendship with him, and they said, Well, we've got some money that we'd love to donate to research.
• 29:58
  Reg was not affiliated with any university or contract research organization at that point.
• 30:04
  So here I am.
• 30:05
  I happen to be in the right place at the right time.
• 30:07
  We've created this really nice relationship.
• 30:09
  And he calls me one day and he says, John, we have an opportunity to run a clinical trial.
• 30:14
  The uh the family only makes one one request, and we do it in Alzheimer's.
• 30:18
  And here in Miami, of course, in the South Florida area, we have a lot of elderly people, of course, a lot of people here in uh this area also having different forms of dementia and Alzheimer's.
• 30:29
  So it was really a natural, it was just a natural fit.
• 30:32
  And I I had gotten so inspired with what he had done up to that point and everything that he had shared with me and all of his experiences, not just in Alzheimer's, but literally in about just about any disease or disorder you can name.
• 30:45
  And so we had the opportunity to run that study here at the all uh at the University of Miami.
• 30:50
  And again, Dr.
• 30:51
  McCullough, it completely changed my life simply because I was very optimistic as we were deciding on some of the particulars of the of the clinical trial.
• 31:00
  We chose only people with moderate to severe Alzheimer's or I'm sorry, all moderate to severe severity.
• 31:07
  We wanted to make sure that the folks who are normally ineligible for big pharma studies, we wanted to make sure that they had an opportunity to participate in our study.
• 31:17
  They had to been diagnosed at least for one year.
• 31:20
  So it was, you know, pretty uh, I mean, not like such a large number of exclusion or inclusion criteria we were going for, but again, we were really just trying to target as best as we could the sickest of the sick with this disease.
• 31:33
  We didn't change their medication, certainly.
• 31:36
  We didn't change their diet, we didn't exercise them, we didn't socialize them, we didn't change any other variable in their daily routine.
• 31:44
  We just said, here, take this dietary supplement formula.
• 31:47
  We assess them cognitively at baseline three, six, nine in 12 months, and then we drew their blood at baseline in 12 months.
• 31:55
  Had I thought about it, had a little bit more been a little bit more forward thinking, I would have drawn their blood at three, six, and nine as well.
• 32:02
  I just didn't, I don't know why I didn't think of that and put those samples in the freezer.
• 32:06
  But anyway, we ran the study for it, took us about two and a half years.
• 32:11
  We we had 34 people in the study.
• 32:13
  I know that's not a huge number, but we only had about a hundred and fifty thousand dollar budget anyway.
• 32:18
  So it wasn't like a multi-million dollar budget where we could have, you know, enrolled a couple of hundred people.
• 32:24
  But as we were running the trial, and as I was getting phone calls from caregivers, even the psychiatrist on our study, I mean, this was like the most skeptical guy you'll ever meet in your life.
• 32:34
  He was like, he literally told Reg Reg came into town and uh he literally told us at a meeting, well, you know, I'm a psychiatrist and I use medication.
• 32:45
  You guys have some money, we've got a lot of patients.
• 32:47
  I don't really think your nutrition is going to do anything, but we'll help you out.
• 32:51
  I mean, he lit, he literally told us that.
• 32:54
  We were we were both kind of like, wow, like talk about being a healthy skeptic.
• 32:59
  And so we we start, you know, we get IRB approval, we start running the study, and sure enough, within not even six months.
• 33:08
  I want to say, because it's been a while since we've ran this trial now, but within about three or four months, he actually called me one day.
• 33:14
  He goes, John, he goes, if these were not my own patients, I would not have believed what's going on here.
• 33:20
  So even even this supreme skeptic had to admit that something was happening in these patients.
• 33:28
  And then I would randomly get caregivers calling me in just tears of joy saying, I cannot believe what you know, whatever the relationship was, my wife, my grandmother, you know, just crying like a baby, saying they can't believe what you know now is being talked about or uh remembered or whatever, and just really, really powerful as we're running the trial.
• 33:49
  So we get to the end of the study, we start analyzing the data.
• 33:53
  And of course, Reg and I are most, I mean, we certainly were fascinated with what was going on in the blood, but we were most fascinated to see what the ADS Cog showed.
• 34:02
  And sure enough, Dr.
• 34:03
  McCullough, at nine and 12 months, we showed clinically and statistically significant improvements in cognitive function.
• 34:12
  Like unheard of, like, compare that to any type of diet, certainly not the five FDA approved drugs for dementia.
• 34:20
  They don't show they haven't shown that.
• 34:22
  Uh, any other dietary supplement, exercise, hyperbaric oxygen, red light therapy, acupuncture, you name it.
• 34:29
  I mean, I I would love for somebody to fact check me, go to PubMed and and fact check me and find something similar because I still haven't seen it.
• 34:36
  And that that paper, that one of uh that first paper of the four that we published from the study, Dr.
• 34:43
  Perry, George Peary, the editor of the Journal of Alzheimer's disease, after we submitted that article, he actually called me and he was like, Wow, Dr.
• 34:51
  Lewis, this paper is really really nice.
• 34:53
  I'm gonna recommend we publish it as soon as we get the reviews back from the reviewers.
• 34:57
  That's the one and only time in my life.
• 34:59
  An editor of a journal actually called me and and you know, was that excited to publish one of my papers.
• 35:00
  Of a journal actually called me and and you know was that excited to publish one of my papers.
• 35:05
  So I mean again, it just before you go further.
• 35:05
  So I mean, again, it just before you go further, let's kind of dig into this eight eight ass cog.
• 35:09
  Let's kind of dig into this eight eight S cog.
• 35:11
  So it I'm sure it has like some type of summary scale, then it has subscales.
• 35:11
  So it I'm sure it has like some type of summary scale than it has subscales.
• 35:16
  Is that right?
• 35:16
  Is that right?
• 35:17
  Correct.
• 35:17
  Correct.
• 35:17
  That's correct.
• 35:17
  That's correct.
• 35:18
  So I'm referring to the summary, the cognitive score, the summary score.
• 35:18
  So I'm referring to the summary, the cognitive score, the summary score.
• 35:23
  Right.
• 35:23
  Right.
• 35:23
  And then how does that range?
• 35:23
  And then how does that range?
• 35:25
  What's the lowest possible and the highest possible on that scale?
• 35:25
  What's the lowest possible and the highest possible on that scale?
• 35:28
  Exactly.
• 35:28
  Exactly.
• 35:29
  So
• 35:29
  So and it looks like when I present it, when I show the graph of it, it the score goes down.
• 35:35
  So you know, sometimes intuitively you think when a score is going down, that means bad.
• 35:39
  In this case, it's a good thing.
• 35:41
  So the the 8-as cog goes from a 70 to a zero.
• 35:45
  If you score a 70, you're like this computer.
• 35:48
  You have no cognitive function.
• 35:49
  You're just basically like some inanimate object.
• 35:52
  If you score a zero, that's perfect cognitive functioning.
• 35:55
  Oh, so you want an 8S cog at zero.
• 35:57
  Okay.
• 35:58
  So zero is good.
• 35:59
  70 is really terrible.
• 36:01
  Where were people at baseline?
• 36:05
  Um head, I actually have to go back to the numbers.
• 36:09
  They were they were in the um, I think they were in the 40s.
• 36:14
  Yeah.
• 36:15
  Yeah.
• 36:15
  And then the clinically significant change, either good or bad, is four points or greater.
• 36:22
  So we were over four points on the nine and the 12 month assessments.
• 36:26
  Okay.
• 36:27
  Which again is just, I mean, for us, it was phenomenal.
• 36:31
  And you know, as an epidemiologist, maybe I'll just briefly tell our listeners that you can have you know, hundreds, thousands of subjects, assessments, time points, whatever in a study.
• 36:43
  And the law of large numbers says just randomly, just by error, you'll have lots of statistical significance, but does it mean anything to the real world or the practical world?
• 36:52
  And so when you can have something clinically significant, meaning that it actually has relevance to the real world, to me, that's where the rubber really hits the road when you can have and then have the combination of the two.
• 37:05
  Okay.
• 37:05
  So so you really hit it.
• 37:07
  Sounds like the results were robust, and because you had it at multiple time points, it was internally consistent.
• 37:14
  So it just didn't happen uh, you know, as a as one off in a sequence.
• 37:20
  What was the test article?
• 37:22
  What was the supplement that was given?
• 37:24
  Let's kind of get into the details of that.
• 37:27
  Sure.
• 37:28
  So generically in the articles, we refer to it as allopolymanos multinutrient complex.
• 37:33
  That's just you know, a generic term to really highlight the importance of the allopolysaccharide, but also it had as multinutrient would suggest, it had other ingredients as well.
• 37:44
  So the polysaccharides, and I don't think you and I talked about that too much in our previous conversation.
• 37:50
  To me and and Reg too, Dr.
• 37:52
  Reg, we really believe that when you compare these polysaccharides to anything else that Mother Nature provides for us amino acids, fatty acids, certainly vitamins and minerals, those are very simple structures, as you know.
• 38:05
  These are like 5D structures.
• 38:07
  These things are like thousands of glucose units attached together in these very sophisticated glycosidic bonds that have such a dense and complex coded library of information that our genes interpret to tell our cells how to function.
• 38:22
  And so this is why we believe this is our working theory, why we believe these things are so efficacious.
• 38:27
  But in addition to the polysaccharides from aloe vera and rice friend, we also had in there uh, for example, golden flaxseed, which is an incredible nutritional powerhouse.
• 38:37
  Most people think of it for its omega 3 content, which is true, but it also has a lot of fiber, and it also has something called lignins.
• 38:44
  These lignins are very um interesting signaling mechanisms to the immune system, particularly for cancer.
• 38:53
  We we have in there um a clay, it's uh it's a marillinite clay from a deep water lake in Mississippi.
• 39:00
  It's a very potent chelator of arsenic, heavy metals, you know, all these things that accumulate mostly in the adipose tissue, and we we want to pull that stuff out.
• 39:09
  So at the same time, we're supplying nutrition.
• 39:12
  We're also helping to pull out a lot of bad things.
• 39:15
  It has in there something called dioscoria.
• 39:17
  This is a wild Mexican yam.
• 39:19
  It also has very good polysaccharide content.
• 39:22
  In addition, it has something in there called sapinins, and these are very good for regulating, helping to regulate our endocrine system and our keeping our hormones in balance.
• 39:32
  We have in there sunflower lecithin.
• 39:34
  Not only does it act as an emulsifier to help all the ingredients get into the bloodstream and do their job, but it also is a very nice and rich source of choline, which is obviously a metabolic precursor to acetylcholine, a very important neurotransmitter.
• 39:49
  We have in there Nacyl uh N acetyl cysteine, a metabolic precursor to glutathione, considered to be most people consider that to be our most important antioxidant.
• 40:01
  Uh, we have in there tart cherry, tart cherry is just what a nutritional powerhouse tart cherry is.
• 40:07
  A lot of times people report sleeping better on our formula, and one of the big reasons why is because as you know, tart cherry is an is a natural source of melatonin.
• 40:16
  So that's a that's a very nice component to the formula.
• 40:20
  Let me just stop you at tart cherry.
• 40:22
  Do you do you know another medicinal use for this that uh that I found useful in my patients?
• 40:28
  It actually helps prevent urinate tract infections.
• 40:31
  Oh, really?
• 40:32
  Wow, nice.
• 40:33
  I didn't I did not know that.
• 40:34
  It has a suppressive effect.
• 40:36
  So when it gets in the urine, the the bacteria don't like it.
• 40:39
  And yeah.
• 40:41
  So there actually is a product that um leverages this.
• 40:46
  Uh it's not available, you know, online.
• 40:48
  It's called semane, S-E-M-A-I-N-E.
• 40:51
  That's kind of my go-to natural prevention uh recommendation for seniors having recurrent UTIs because they just end up on antibiotics over and over again.
• 41:01
  And believe it or not, I learned that from a patient.
• 41:04
  A patient told me, Dr.
• 41:06
  McCye, I've been plagued with UTIs until I found this natural product.
• 41:09
  So it has tart cherry and has some other components in it, but uh it's the in my clinical practice now over years, I think it clearly it clearly works.
• 41:20
  I mean, I I enjoy not prescribing antibiotics over and over again.
• 41:25
  And so, anyhow, keep going.
• 41:26
  So, this is sounding pretty good, but so so you're leveraging the fact that there are multiple natural ingredients of this that kind of come together that this should have a pretty good biologic rationale.
• 41:39
  What else is in the list?
• 41:40
  I don't want to cut you off.
• 41:41
  Oh no, that's okay.
• 41:42
  I think we were down to um let's see, citric acid, uh obviously a very important component for the Krebs cycle for creating cellular energy.
• 41:53
  And then I think the last thing was vanilla, which has some really nice uh cardiovascular benefits as well.
• 41:59
  So let me let me just pause you there.
• 42:00
  Let me let me just pause you there.
• 42:02
  Um uh because you and I don't get a chance to talk very much.
• 42:02
  Um, because you and I don't get a chance to talk very much.
• 42:05
  Do you know another use for citrate is oral citrate?
• 42:05
  Do you know another use for citrate is oral citrate?
• 42:09
  Tell me.
• 42:09
  Tell me prevention of kidney stones, right?
• 42:10
  Prevention of kidney stones.
• 42:13
  Right.
• 42:14
  Yeah, so citrification is is a standard principle in the prevention of kidney stones.
• 42:14
  Yeah.
• 42:14
  So citrification is is a standard principle in the prevention of kidney stones.
• 42:20
  That's right.
• 42:20
  That's right.
• 42:20
  Oh, and I you know, I know you are targeting neurocognitive decline, but this is sounding pretty good for the elderly as.
• 42:20
  Oh, and I, you know, I know you're targeting neurocognitive decline, but this is sounding pretty good for the elderly as kind of a multidimensional supplement.
• 42:33
  Well, it is.
• 42:34
  And I just remembered one other that I left out.
• 42:36
  And acetyl hexaphosphate.
• 42:38
  This is another derivative of uh rice bran.
• 42:42
  And it also has incredible signaling potential to the immune system for for cancer uh recognition.
• 42:50
  So, but in addition to, you know, what you just mentioned about a uh preventative for the elderly.
• 42:56
  I mean, I've been on this formula for a decade myself.
• 42:59
  I've my mom has been on it for mom's been on it about 13 years.
• 43:03
  My wife started on it seven or eight years ago.
• 43:06
  Both of our children started on it when they were six months of age.
• 43:10
  So I look at this, Dr.
• 43:11
  McCullough, as like literally a cradle to grave strategy.
• 43:15
  If you look, if you think of your health promoting toolbox, if you will, man, I've got these, I've got these polysaccharides at the top of my toolbox list because I just other than maybe curcumin, and obviously we know it's got a I mean, thousands of articles published on it, but other than curcumin, and of course it has to be properly formulated, or you're going to poop most of it out.
• 43:40
  This, I mean, these polysaccharides are just such wonderful health promoting nutrients.
• 43:45
  And I'm going to take them every day till today I'm not going to be able to do that.
• 43:48
  Well, let me ask you something.
• 43:49
  A lot of people know about the aloe vera plant.
• 43:53
  Yes.
• 44:00
  So this is actually, it sounds like part of this is derived from aloe vera.
• 44:05
  Is that right?
• 44:05
  Absolutely.
• 44:06
  So the allopolysaccharide, and that I'm glad you brought that up because invariably, every time I give this lecture, uh, you know, talking about our research, and I talk, I start talking about aloe vera, I'll get somebody to raise his or her hand and say, Well, can I just take the aloe vera gel?
• 44:21
  And I say, maybe, but it's not going to have the same effect.
• 44:25
  And there are two reasons why.
• 44:26
  One, it tastes nasty.
• 44:28
  And we here in Miami, we have aloe vera growing in our backyard, actually, but I'm not out there every day, you know, snipping leaves and sucking that nasty gel gel down because it just tastes horrible.
• 44:38
  But number two, it's 99.
• 44:40
  something percent water.
• 44:42
  So you'd you'd have to drink bucket loads of that gel.
• 44:46
  I see to get enough therapeutic or physiological benefit out of those polysaccharides.
• 44:50
  And we've we've done the hard work for you where we've dehydrated it, concentrated it down into a dose where for maybe a few hundred milligrams per day to maybe even a couple of grams per day for some advanced case.
• 45:03
  I mean, you get just like a powerhouse of benefit.
• 45:07
  Right.
• 45:07
  Now, when you talk about polysaccharides, polysaccharides are known themselves to hold water provided they're not cleaved and what have you.
• 45:16
  So is there is part of this is part of this, does this qualify as fiber or not really?
• 45:23
  So, no, these these are not uh these are not fibrous materials.
• 45:27
  These are definitely digestible materials.
• 45:30
  So, so is there is it the belief that these ingredients get into the bloodstream or is leasing limited?
• 45:36
  No question about it.
• 45:37
  I mean, that's that's you're now going down a mechanistic path that I'm hoping at some point we'll have the funding to do some of this testing related to what happens in the gut, especially between the intestines and the liver.
• 45:49
  I really want to get a little bit more down the road in this in terms of mechanisms.
• 45:53
  But yes, we believe they're definitely metabolites to these polysaccharides that are getting into the bloodstream and getting out to the cells and and do do their jobs, and that's why I mean we didn't even mention the the what happened at the cellular level yet, but the reasons why is because of of these other effects that we've published.
• 46:13
  Well, it sounds like so many of the uh the mechanisms of these ingredients are generally you know improving cellular health, generally reducing oxidative stress.
• 46:27
  You know, generally um filling some gaps uh in various nutrients.
• 46:33
  And and I have to say, by the ingredient list, you know, I would just infer, and you'd tell me, but that they'd be favorable to the microbiome in the gut.
• 46:43
  No question about it.
• 46:44
  In fact, there is a great article written, uh I think it was published in 23, so it's about three years old now, actually looking at the the islopolysaccharides as like even a superior form for people having all kinds of digestive issues compared to a probiotic formulation, even.
• 47:02
  I mean, I have a great case of one lady, this lady, excuse me, in her early 40s, I met her a couple of years ago.
• 47:09
  This poor lady had constipation her entire life.
• 47:12
  She had tried everything known to God and man to have a normal bowel movement and couldn't couldn't achieve it.
• 47:19
  And at the it just so happened for her, lucky for her, at the point that she and I met, she had made an appointment for some functional medicine doc here in the area.
• 47:28
  She was getting ready to go spend another $2,000 on a workup with this guy.
• 47:32
  And I said, I said, please just give our product, just give it a chance.
• 47:36
  You have literally nothing to lose.
• 47:38
  You don't, you're certainly not going to spend $2,000.
• 47:41
  Right.
• 47:41
  And so she ordered it, and she called me up.
• 47:44
  I'm not exaggerating.
• 47:45
  She called me up in like four days and she said, John, I can't believe it.
• 47:49
  I just had my first ever normal bowel movement.
• 47:52
  And she was, you know, beyond the moon, as they say.
• 47:56
  I mean, she just couldn't even believe it.
• 47:58
  And now, and since then she's had normal bowel movements.
• 48:01
  So it does incredible things to help balance the gut and and help people have better uh bowel function.
• 48:10
  That's terrific.
• 48:11
  So specifically, how do you think the ingredients work at the level of uh the neuron in the human brain?
• 48:18
  Oh, this is a great question.
• 48:20
  So one of the really cool findings from our first paper, and we and we've published four, is I mentioned I'm sure we don't have enough time today to talk about all four papers, but we showed from baseline to 12 months an increase of 286% of C D14 cells.
• 48:36
  Now we know not from our lab at the University of Miami, but I think it was in uh California, I'd have to go back and double check that reference.
• 48:44
  But some other scientists were working somewhere out in California, and they showed that CD 14s turn into neurons.
• 48:49
  And so when you look at some of the other um related changes or related effects, and you look at this incredible CD 14 increase, it's like, whoa, like, okay, so this helps to explain why that ADS cog score went up so much, because now you're getting these CD 14s migrating out to the brain and doing their job and helping to repair some of this damage.
• 49:00
  Like, whoa, like, okay.
• 49:01
  So this helps to explain why that ADS Cog score went up so much because now you're getting these C D 14s migrating out to the brain and doing their job and helping to repair some of this damage.
• 49:13
  So I mean, it was just like wow.
• 49:13
  So I mean, it was just like, wow.
• 49:14
  I mean, that was like another one of those uh discoveries in the paper that we were just like, you know, beyond the moon about.
• 49:14
  I mean, that was like another one of those uh discoveries in the paper that we were just like, you know, beyond the moon about.
• 49:21
  I mean, it was just really really exciting to find that.
• 49:21
  I mean, it was just really really exciting to find that.
• 49:25
  And are the CD4 uh 14 cells are there just general studies showing that.
• 49:25
  And are the C D 14 cells, are there just general studies showing that you know, higher levels, uh less cognitive decline, lower levels, more advanced cognitive decline?
• 49:36
  Is it kind of associative like that?
• 49:38
  That's a great question.
• 49:40
  I I have not seen any paper documenting it that way.
• 49:43
  We just our working hypothesis is you have this amazing clinical change on the one hand, and then over here you have this nearly 300% increase in C D 14s.
• 49:56
  I don't know exactly how you link that together in our paper, but that was kind of our working working hypothesis.
• 50:03
  Now are they actually neurons that have axons, what have you, or are they more what's called satellite or support cells in the brain?
• 50:11
  I would have to go back and and um and review that paper.
• 50:15
  I that's a good question too.
• 50:16
  I don't remember, but hopefully in our next clinical trial, and I say I'm saying that positively to the universe so that you know at some point we will get the money to do it.
• 50:26
  We want to look at imaging studies uh in our next study because unfortunately our budget, you know, again for 150,000, we were lucky to have enough money to draw blood.
• 50:35
  Uh, you know, a little that's a limited budget.
• 50:38
  And I I've led large clinical trials, and one needs it just needs a you know, a multi million dollar budget.
• 50:48
  There's just no way around it.
• 50:50
  And um, but let me just take you said CD 14.
• 50:53
  Um I I believe it's um Yeah, I would love I'll have to I'll I can I'll look that up for you on offline.
• 51:01
  I've got the reference for where that lab is.
• 51:05
  Uh no, because when you have that big of a a change in the cell line, I mean it's significant.
• 51:10
  The the question is kind of the interpretive framework.
• 51:13
  Normally the C D system uh applies to um to non-neuronal cells.
• 51:19
  So uh here's Gemini.
• 51:22
  So just uh so people can uh tell them using in the context of the brain, C D14 is primarily a marker from monocytes or macrophages.
• 51:30
  So these are these support cells, and the roll and presence shifts significantly on whether the brain is healthy or inflamed.
• 51:38
  Um CD14 is most famous as a co-receptor for toll-like receptor for to detect uh various forms of uh toxins.
• 51:47
  And under uh normal situations are expressed uh in the perivascular uh population of macrophages.
• 51:57
  They last they uh act as the first line of defense between the blood and the brain uh tissue.
• 52:03
  And um so uh uh this is very solid uh for the idea that these critical cells probably are playing a role um, you know, a defensive role in in whatever's going on the brain making cognition worse.
• 52:22
  So um that's right.
• 52:24
  So that's I also didn't mention that on average these folks were 79.9 years of age.
• 52:29
  So they were you know at a at an age of you know pretty advanced age.
• 52:34
  They also didn't just have Alzheimer's, of course.
• 52:36
  They had a lot of them had diabetes, depression.
• 52:38
  Oh, yeah, they're on other medications.
• 52:41
  Are there any uh drug interactions with this supplement?
• 52:44
  Does it interfere with any other medicines?
• 52:47
  That's the wonderful thing about this too, Dr.
• 52:49
  McCullough.
• 52:50
  This formula we've had, I mean, come combining my experiences for the last 20 years with Dr.
• 52:55
  McDaniel's last 40, and then all of our other colleagues around the country that have worked on this uh research and in clinical practice, we have not discovered one drug where we would say, okay, wait a minute, be careful there.
• 53:08
  Like with curcumin, you know, maybe you might get into some danger with antidepressants or or blood thinners, but with this formula, we haven't had any issues with it at all with any kind of drug.
• 53:19
  Yeah, seems remarkably safe.
• 53:21
  Well, how about safety in general in your trials?
• 53:24
  Did you have any safety signals of concern?
• 53:27
  So there's the kid, there's the occasional person that will report not diarrhea, but like a loose stool.
• 53:33
  And I and I try to encourage that person to I don't know if Herzheimer reaction is necessarily the right framework, but I just say, you know, this might be a sign that the clay and the NAC and the citric acid, they're actually helping you to detox things out of your body.
• 53:51
  So what I asked the person to do if they're willing to do it is just cut down your dose, go to a really low dose, and then just allow yourself, be patient with yourself to get over that healing reaction or detox reaction, whatever that may be, and uh and then it'll eventually go away and it'll be something you won't even notice.
• 54:10
  But that's really about it.
• 54:11
  I mean, otherwise, there's hardly ever anybody that says, oh no, I actually I did have one lady that just told me uh this past week that she has an allergy to aloe vera.
• 54:20
  I never even heard of that before.
• 54:22
  But it's gonna happen.
• 54:24
  You you work with enough people, you're gonna have it, but it sounds generally well tolerated.
• 54:28
  Did you use the capsule form of the Dr.
• 54:31
  Lewis?
• 54:32
  Essentially, what's now the Dr.
• 54:33
  Lewis um brain health product?
• 54:36
  Or did you use the great question?
• 54:38
  So in this in the study, because as you know, about 30% of people with Alzheimer's have swallowing issues.
• 54:44
  We used to we use the powder version, but then later, you know, after it daily brain care became commercial, and the occasional negative Nelly would say, Well, I don't like the taste or the texture or whatever.
• 54:55
  We said, okay, no problem.
• 54:56
  We're going to put it in capsules too.
• 54:58
  And then that way it takes away that argument.
• 55:01
  But but yes, for the study, we used a powder.
• 55:03
  And the powder, and what was the dose that you used?
• 55:06
  So for the study, we used four of the scoops uh per day.
• 55:10
  We back in those days, we recommended one scoop for you know, each of the three meal if people were eating three meals a day and then one scoop with a a nighttime snack.
• 55:21
  But uh, you know, for some people that didn't eat, of course, four times a day, we would say, well, if it's twice a day, just go ahead and do two and two or something like that.
• 55:29
  So the scoop is uh essentially it's you may have probably had an earlier version of this, but um it's essentially this, right?
• 55:36
  That's correct.
• 55:37
  So for scoops, I want people to know.
• 55:41
  I'm in my first year myself uh taking it based on the the high quality work that that Dr.
• 55:47
  Lewis has done.
• 55:48
  So a scoop is about this big.
• 55:52
  So I imagine it's you know, I don't know, five grams or ten grams, right?
• 55:57
  But it's that's no, that's two and a half.
• 55:59
  Two and a half grams.
• 56:00
  Grams.
• 56:00
  Okay, so two and a half grams.
• 56:00
  Okay.
• 56:00
  So it's two and a half grams.
• 56:02
  And so it looks it it it kind of looks like uh sand on uh you know on a beach there in uh dustin, Florida.
• 56:02
  And so it looks it, it it kind of looks like uh sand on a you know on a beach there in uh dustin, Florida.
• 56:10
  Um but you know what I do, and I was remarking to Dr.
• 56:10
  Um but you know what I do, and I was remarking to Dr.
• 56:14
  Lewis um offline.
• 56:14
  Lewis um offline.
• 56:15
  So I have it at work, and I I just put it in a small amount of water.
• 56:15
  So I have it at work, and I I just put it in a small amount of water.
• 56:19
  You don't need to drink a ton amount of water and just kind of stir it up and drink it quickly.
• 56:19
  You don't need to drink a ton of water and just kind of stir it up and drink it quickly.
• 56:23
  Um and it tastes good.
• 56:23
  Um and it tastes good.
• 56:25
  And the other thing I noticed, and you noticed it too, it actually takes an
• 56:25
  And the other thing I noticed, and you noticed it too, it actually takes an edge off my hunger.
• 56:31
  So as I DeAndre is the end of the day, like today I didn't bring a lunch to work.
• 56:35
  I'm at work right now.
• 56:36
  I've got uh you know some more clinical work to do.
• 56:38
  Um, I'm gonna be hungry towards the end of today.
• 56:41
  And so I'll have uh a couple scoops, and I can easily put two scoops in, you know, maybe a third of a of a of a of a coffee cup of water, just water, and down the old hatch.
• 56:53
  And uh it takes the edge off my hunger.
• 56:56
  I can go home, I can work out, and um, you know, and I'm personally very hopeful and honestly psychologically, I feel better now, thanks to Dr.
• 57:07
  Lewis, that I'm doing something about this.
• 57:10
  Well, listen, we're gonna have to leave it here.
• 57:12
  Uh Dr.
• 57:12
  Lewis, thank you so much for joining again.
• 57:14
  You're one of the few uh repeat uh uh you know guests I've ever had on the program because you you uh I think are just filling such an important role that we need right now in nutritional science in the whole field of of neurodegeneration.
• 57:29
  So again, thank you so much for joining us on the program.
• 57:32
  Thank you, Dr.
• 57:32
  McCullough.
• 57:33
  It's been an honor.
• 57:33
  I'm so grateful for the opportunity again to be with you today.
• 57:37
  Well, let's get real, let's get loud on America Loud Talk News.
• 57:40
  This is the McCullough Report and Focal Point Substack.
• 57:43
  I'm Dr.
• 57:43
  Peter McCullough, your host.
• 57:45
  Thank you so much for watching and listening to the