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'Ragtime' Music and Stagecraft | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back listeners to another episode of the BSB Podcast.
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  In today's episode, we're continuing our part two discussion of Ragtime, looking at the music and stagecraft of this historic story.
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  But before we dive in, please like, follow, and subscribe to the BSB Insider on all social media platforms @bsb.insider Spoiler warning, we are discussing key aspects of the current
• 0:21
  revival of Ragtime.
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  So if you haven't been to the Lincoln Center yet to see it,
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  Pause this video and resume once you have.
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  All right, so in episode one, we covered the story and the characters.
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  A story that really is, as we talked about, we had a great discussion about the challenges of growing and living in the early 20th century, specifically when you start to factor in
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  the story of immigrants, the story of socioeconomic challenges, we factor in color and race and all those different things.
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  This is a really heavy story.
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  think that's kind of what the takeaway was from this is that Ragtime is a very long, very dense show.
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  It's the fruitcake of musical theater.
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  But not that it was unpleasant.
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  I think that like for anybody who has watched part one, I don't want to speak for both RJ and I, but I will speak for myself.
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  This wasn't to say that the story, the show wasn't enjoyable.
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  Like, RJ, would you say that you enjoyed it?
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  I guess, like, enjoyed it for as much as you could a story that's really heavy?
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  Yes.
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  Although I tend to like heavy stories, so I guess it's not a fair...
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  might not be a fair question.
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  But I guess I should say, it's not like it's an unpleasant ride from start to finish.
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  I think that if, again, this is more just about the seats than anything else, if we didn't have those seats where you had no foot room, therefore your knees were hurting you, ah I
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  don't think I would have even noticed time passing in ragtime because you are moving through some, quickly through some stories.
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  There's a lot of stories going on.
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  There's a huge narrative.
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  And again, this is a three hour show, which is mostly singing.
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  And so I just, I don't want people to, you know, to think that when we say heavy or deep or even sometimes dark, that it was necessarily bad.
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  And I like that you said that too.
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  You like the heavy stories because it's true.
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  You do enjoy, you enjoy a fruitcake of a musical show.
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  There's nothing wrong with that.
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  like substance.
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  Yeah, I mean, who doesn't?
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  But when we're talking about the music, and again, this is a show that is, I think most people younger than us would call this an old show.
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  When really, Ragtime was what, from the 80s?
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  I don't want to speak out of turn.
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  1996.
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  So truthfully, do not call it old because that means that we're old, first off.
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  Let's just get that under control.
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  older than this show.
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  We are older than the show.
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  But the music, RJ, it feels like a 1950s show, like a 19, you know what mean?
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  Like classic Broadway.
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  It has that feel even though it only came out in the 90s.
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  Wouldn't you agree?
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  Well, arguably, when did the book come out?
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  It's probably the question that we should be asking.
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  Yes.
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  1975.
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  So that feels more true, right?
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  Because they didn't originate the show, or they didn't originate the content in the 90s.
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  The content really was originated in the 70s, and it was just made in the 90s.
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  Much like...
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  Suffs I know we keep going back to Suffs, I'm so sorry, just go frickin' see it already.
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  Where...
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  m
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  Yes, see it in the theater near you.
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  It still feels like we, it's a little bit more modern.
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  but it's based on history.
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  Same thing with Hamilton, right?
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  But ragtime truly takes its...
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  I mean, you can't call a play ragtime and then not have it be set to ragtime.
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  Like, the time of ragtime.
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  It just doesn't work.
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  So, yeah, it's aged, but it's appropriate.
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  I would say like purposefully aged.
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  You know what mean?
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  Like this is, I didn't realize that it only came out in the nineties.
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  I was thinking it was like, the book came out in 1975 and by 1980 we had the musical because again, it feels like the, it is truly the music that maybe dates it along with,
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  like you said, the novel by E.L.
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  Doctorow is an old story.
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  It's telling a story at the turn of the 20th century.
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  And so it has to feel that way.
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  It has to feel that way.
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  And so that does take you back to almost the golden age of cinema, the golden age of Broadway.
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  You know, back when we went on some tours this week and you know, you're thinking about back when they had gas lamps, you know, like that's kind of the feel you're getting with
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  this show and the music right off the bat.
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  I mean, you're getting that overture and it is like, like you're getting an overture.
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  First off, that dates the show right there.
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  Like you don't see a lot of shows that still have an overture.
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  And in fact, when we went to go see Gypsy, you felt that.
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  Remember, you even said, you're like, this feels old because you have that overture kind of bringing this into the show.
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  I mean, yeah, when you talked about the original, what the theater district even felt like or was like, the old white way, literally what it was called because of those gas lamps
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  along there.
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  So yeah, it was made in a time, it was made to feel old in the 90s.
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  So it had to feel antiquated for that time.
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  which meant means it feels really antiquated to us.
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  Does it?
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  Do you think that for a lot of people that makes the show hard to digest?
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  I know we loved it.
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  But do think for people our age?
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  sure they have people walk out.
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  I'm sure they have people who are sleeping.
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  I'm sure they have people who are bored out of their minds.
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  um Maybe not on Broadway.
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  I mean, I really hope if you're paying, let's be real, Lincoln Center tickets aren't cheap, right?
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  If you're paying for a 28 piece orchestra, tickets aren't going to be cheap.
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  um So I would hope.
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  that anyone attending is very engaged.
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  However, I can 100 % see just by looking at the audience that we were in, it is geared towards an older audience because that is, they would have read this book, right?
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  They would have experienced even some of these things, even when it came out in the 90s.
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  And I mean, they were alive for.
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  A lot of it.
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  um Because let's be real, even my grandparents to great grandparents were very much experiencing and living in the world, maybe not exactly at the same time as Ragtime, but
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  also yes, because at this point my grandmother would have been in her 90s.
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  So literally living in the era in which this show would have taken place.
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  Right, I mean, so if you look at it, the show takes place in New York City between 1902 and 1915.
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  that wasn't so far off.
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  Like, I think my grandparents were maybe just under that.
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  Like, they were growing up in an era that was not so far removed from it that this wasn't normal.
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  You know I mean?
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  Like, that these experiences weren't things that they were seeing.
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  And this is also music that my grandma would have listened to on her record player.
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  Like, this is the type of music that...
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  I grew up in her house listening to to some degree.
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  And so it's interesting that this show came out in 1996 when this music feels like it is the turn of the century in a good way.
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  but speaking of the music, RJ, there's a lot of music.
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  There's a, where do you even begin with a show like this when it comes to this?
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  Like songs were blending into each other.
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  There was, this was not a show that there was necessarily like moments to stop and clap.
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  think people were trying to fit claps in somewhere.
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  This was a show sometimes that was just like a roll, almost like a rolling musical dialogue throughout the entire show to some degree.
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  Well and again, it's a show that constantly has musical interludes underneath the speaking um that are even considered a part of the song.
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  um But yeah, heavy, heavy music.
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  We've got song and then like four lines and then song, four lines.
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  um You didn't need much because everything was being said through song.
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  With that being said, what song are songs really?
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  speak to you?
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  Or like what songs really stood out to you?
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  um Because I think that this when I was looking at the list, was like, I don't know where to pull songs out here other than a few songs.
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  Yeah, I mean, again, like we talked about in episode one, because it is a show that can feel dark or damp.
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  Those bright light moments in regards to hope or the future or things that are like looking upward and onward, um I think are prevalent.
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  uh
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  Although I I love the opening number and I think it's very incredibly well known, just the song Ragtime.
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  um and then Wheels of a Dream is a staple, just of hope and aspirations.
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  And then, um, I also enjoyed Till We Reach That Day.
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  That's kind of like the first song where we get truly everybody, like every angle.
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  um every family, every character kind of involved.
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  And then we have like our dance heavy numbers um which are just more fun.
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  um
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  I'm gonna jump in here and just say, the three songs you mentioned were like the three ones that I could think of from Act One that really stood out to me.
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  So apparently that's not like ragtime.
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  It's like a 20 minute introduction to the show.
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  It reminded me very much of Les Mis, you know what I mean?
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  Where it was like, you're getting all the people, all the pieces, and then all of a sudden then the screen rolls.
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  So that was kind of...
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  I appreciated that because again, with so many players, you did almost need introductions on who each person was, so you're not learning them in the moment.
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  um But I think that as much as strong as the first act is, I think I really started to feel the power until we reached that day, which again, it's the closer.
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  I understand that.
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  It's the moving one.
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  But that's where, again, we lost Sarah.
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  She was oh shot or killed.
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  um
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  And she is, for the first point, like the story at that point is, it almost becomes soulful and it becomes mournful, but it's power in that too.
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  And so Till We Reach That Day is one of those songs that like instantaneously, I'm going to remember that song.
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  Like that is a song that just like, there's so much, there's such a heavy point in the show, again, end of act one, but like that's the one that really stood out to me.
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  It's just so great.
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  Yeah, and I think we're like at that point all the characters are kind of in the same place, right?
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  There's anger, there's angst, there's sadness.
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  ah
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  And honestly, it's one of the first times that the centerpiece isn't mother and father and...
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  It's more of like the minority groups that are coming to the forefront at the same time as Mother's younger brother is realizing he's called to stand up against the oppression and
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  the darkness that's happening.
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  So it's kind of like, yeah, it's the turning point, obviously, of course, you put that at the end of Act One.
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  But then Act Two, I mean, a lot of dancing in Act Two.
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  um But.
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  Sarah Brown Eyes is probably one of the more known pieces.
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  I know a lot of guys who sing have sung that song ah for many musical theater competitions or solos or auditions.
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  ah Our Children is probably one of the ones that the...
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  This show specifically has pushed in regards to PR, that duet, which I think many, of course, parents, families can relate to when it really comes down to just simple caring
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  for, making sure that your child has the best life that they possibly can.
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  I say it's the first foreshadowing into what is potentially the only happy ending of the show,
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  Yes, very clear foreshadowing um before we get depressed again with um Make Them Hear You and then of course the epilogue.
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  yeah, just, and I mean, notable shout out, I'm going backwards, but Your Daddy's Son, sung by Sarah in Act 1.
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  um I've sung this song before.
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  It's incredibly emotional and powerful and just also depressing AF.
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  um
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  but.
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  I was going to say that was the song that when I heard it, I got some Cynthia Erivo like moment.
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  You know what mean?
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  Like that was the moment I was like, this reminds me so much of Cynthia and like Wicked because it is just one of those songs that is so powerful.
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  And it really lets you showcase your voice.
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  Cause a lot of the songs, I don't want say that they weren't like vocally challenging.
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  Cause again, I don't know that aspect of it, but that one was like, let's see your full range.
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  You know what I mean?
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  You start off soft and you go to the point where you're just like,
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  your voices, how you're hitting those notes being superhuman.
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  And so that is a memorable song as well.
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  Yeah, it's the emotional depth throughout the show, like we've kind of said, is really what makes her breaks.
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  this and I was fairly impressed with the dynamic range for all of these characters that we're chatting about because it can be very hard to sing quietly but enough to be
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  enunciating the words so that people understand what you're singing especially when you're ultimately supposedly bawling through the song or just so highly emotive uh
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  because I think that song, it's sadness, but really it's anger.
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  um
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  Do you think that this is why...
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  We talked about this in the first part, but we talked about this being more of a concert-esque show.
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  There's not a heavy emphasis on sets.
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  There are some set pieces, but it's more like a door, a stairway, a ship-ish thing.
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  Do you think that is why the show is more of standing and singing is because it's just so vocally challenging for these people?
• 16:24
  Yeah, and I think that's supposed to be the pinnacle.
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  That's supposed to be the draw.
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  That's supposed to be what you're paying attention to.
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  This is not about flashy sets.
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  It's not about specialty lights.
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  I mean, all of those things definitely create an atmosphere and they're very cool.
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  uh And the special effects that they did have, still very cool.
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  The car, the curtain in Act 2 the uh turntable, like so many things.
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  um
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  But at the end of the day, the voices are what make this production.
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  I was going to say, just very much like we talked about in Operation Mincemeat, this show doesn't have a lot of dancing, but there's a lot of movement.
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  And I kind of put the movement in there with building the car, the turntable, which I love myself a good turntable.
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  There's a lot of moving around, and there's a lot of pieces moving, and there's a lot of people walking around each other that give you different effects, which replaces the
• 17:29
  dancing, which, again, there are some scenes that do have dancing.
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  So I thought that was interesting too, that this emphasis on the movements important, but it's mostly the characters and the singing that really are the draw of ragtime.
• 17:45
  Yeah, and we don't have a ton of ensemble numbers.
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  There's a lot of duets or trios or solos.
• 17:54
  um So it's a lot of physical acting throughout those because they aren't, mean, of course, physical acting can be choreographed and movement is definitely choreographed.
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  But yeah, the idea of dance, I mean, the only times that we truly get dance are for those rag timey pieces.
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  to create that authentic ragtime expression.
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  Yeah.
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  In fact, one of the movements I thought was interesting, and this kind of goes with the set, is there's a song that Father and Tateh sing where they're on the ships, and they
• 18:29
  moved the ship decks around while they stood there singing, which I thought was an interesting way to bring in movement without bringing in dancing.
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  You know what I mean?
• 18:41
  Yeah, a very cool technical piece of, you know, creating that illusion of movement, even though there's really not much actually occurring.
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  em But it very clearly represents what they what they wanted to push.
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  So one of the pieces of this obviously was the costumes.
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  I feel like that besides the actors was the most, was the biggest part of Ragtime.
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  um They were very period specific, which is honestly makes sense.
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  Like, um
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  Did it help kind of sell that image of like, while we didn't have a set, it did take you back to when ragtime would exist?
• 19:23
  yeah, mean the period pieces are just so clear, right?
• 19:29
  Like it just, sets you, it sets the tone and their color configurations for...
• 19:37
  I think representing again when we talk about these disparities and minorities and what they're wearing, right?
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  Like, you're perceived as clean and prim and proper if you're in pure white.
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  You're seen as less than or dirty if you're wearing gray or brown or black, which was pretty much everyone but the white family.
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  uh
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  And obviously being still true to the characterization, right?
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  Like what would an immigrant Jewish family have with them?
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  What would they be wearing?
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  What would they bring with them?
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  What would be a priority?
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  Of course, when we're looking at prayer stalls and all of those aspects, just very clear and concise in that regard.
• 20:32
  But it...
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  The parallels are there.
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  I didn't even cross my mind about mother and father and that family wearing white and then the rest of them wearing more of the neutral colors, especially when you look at Tateh who
• 20:50
  literally as he's becoming a director starts to wear more white.
• 20:55
  then that never, like I'm glad you pointed that out because I missed that watching it because that does kind of show you like what was valued in that time.
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  Like what was...
• 21:06
  What made you pure?
• 21:07
  What made you human or like valuable?
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  You know what I mean?
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  To the people who are in power.
• 21:13
  ah That is actually a really cool thing and that's something that I did.
• 21:17
  I hope other people pick up on and that I'm just not, you know, I'm just the only one that's missing that.
• 21:21
  Well, and even just the status of the ability to keep something white, right?
• 21:27
  Like, who has the money to clean their garments daily?
• 21:33
  You know, who?
• 21:34
  um Whereas if you're living on the streets, you're not gonna...
• 21:39
  A, your clothes aren't gonna be clean, so you don't want them to be white, because they would always be dirty anyway.
• 21:46
  Or they could have originally, we don't know, they could have originally been white, it's representing that they haven't changed in god knows how long, because they can't.
• 21:57
  um But yeah, some, again.
• 22:03
  All up for interpretation, I could be totally wrong.
• 22:06
  There could be a different historical reason, but it seemed that opening scene where that family explicitly, I mean, it's completely white.
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  It's not even like...
• 22:16
  white shirt and a dark suit.
• 22:19
  mean grandpa was in a white white suit from head to toe.
• 22:23
  White shoes.
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  um
• 22:26
  Again, mother, white hat, full white dress, white everything.
• 22:33
  um Very interesting.
• 22:37
  Absolutely.
• 22:37
  uh And I think that that, you while it's, you could be interpreting it wrong, as you said, I think that art is all subjective and like there's obviously something there that even if
• 22:47
  you're picking up on it, others are too.
• 22:49
  I always think back to like when the analogy, like when you ask an author about a tree in a book and to them, it's just a tree, but to you, means something.
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  Like it still represents something.
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  And if it represents that to you, it's also representing that to other people.
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  Other people are picking up on that.
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  And so even if there's a historical reason,
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  It's a cool way to also paint a picture when there isn't much else going on on stage.
• 23:12
  Yes.
• 23:12
  um And I do think um as we'll get into here, the lighting plays a big role on that because then the costumes play as a canvas a little bit more because of those drastic tone
• 23:32
  differences uh that changes the way that you light.
• 23:36
  characters right if you want to enhance the brightness of the white costumes you're going to use an incredibly bright white light if you're going to make someone seem lowly or
• 23:50
  dirty or less than you're going to probably use a super dim
• 23:56
  like whatever uh lumens, darker white, ah or even like orange, I guess, technically as you'd lean uh just for that representation or to help enhance those costumes as well.
• 24:14
  Yeah, I mean, the lighting is super important here because it's such a, it's not a large stage.
• 24:20
  I guess like it extends back quite a bit, but there's a lot of darkness.
• 24:24
  And so those lights really do, like you said, it's the spotlight was the show's best friend.
• 24:30
  Like it really did a lot of work by the color and brightness in which it's shine on people, which was smart.
• 24:38
  It was smart.
• 24:38
  It was a smart way to do it.
• 24:40
  Yeah, and there, I mean, in different aspects, I mean, I just think of, again, we had multiple instances where people were coming from the sky, I'll say.
• 24:51
  um And again, this theater lent itself for sure to this production because...
• 24:59
  We did, like you said, we kind of had a front set that was, or a front stage that was a turntable and where a lot of the action was happening.
• 25:07
  But then that almost just felt like an extension to me.
• 25:11
  And then the stage itself was behind that.
• 25:14
  And while we did still kind of use it, I don't think we used it nearly as much as we used that front turntable area.
• 25:21
  uh But.
• 25:23
  lot of cool effects and then obviously we kind of got to see like you said into the pit slash into any time that they opened the uh lifts in the stage um kind of cool the the
• 25:38
  perks of you know if you don't want to spoil the magic then you don't look but i'm very uh intrigued all the time at how pieces come on and off and
• 25:50
  in those aspects so it was interesting to see.
• 25:53
  But even then the lights were important because you could tell that they were dimming it so that we could see less um or more as the opening number uh lighting was incredibly
• 26:08
  important because they all came up through that uh bottom part of the stage.
• 26:15
  There's one part, after Sarah's death, when she goes down and then all of sudden you saw her kind of like roll off the side of it from our angle.
• 26:23
  And I was like, it was cool to see that.
• 26:25
  And for some people, again, that could ruin the magic.
• 26:27
  But to me, that was part of like seeing a Broadway show being like, oh, that's how they do it.
• 26:31
  You know what I mean?
• 26:31
  So I totally get you on that aspect.
• 26:33
  And yeah, they didn't utilize the back of the stage as much as I thought.
• 26:38
  I also thought it was an extension, like kind like when you go to a concert and sometimes they they build pieces out into the audience.
• 26:44
  because I felt like it was sitting over the orchestra pit quite a bit where the orchestra pit could have been a little more exposed.
• 26:50
  But I think that the front was utilized a lot more.
• 26:55
  so because of that, there was like two different areas.
• 26:59
  There was the back and there was the front and the lighting, again, uh not to beat a dead horse, but the lighting did a lot of that work for them.
• 27:08
  100%.
• 27:09
  We talked about this a little bit in episode one, but the show is long.
• 27:15
  Did the pacing work for it?
• 27:18
  Because in my opinion, I'm going say, I think some of the show could have been cut down and condensed a little bit, especially as we reviving it.
• 27:25
  You know what works and what doesn't.
• 27:26
  You know what feels good and what doesn't.
• 27:28
  I feel like pacing-wise, it was a little slow at some parts.
• 27:32
  And while maybe that's just my distrust of.
• 27:36
  powered ballad after power ballad.
• 27:38
  ah I do think that it was a little slow and could have been, it could have helped to have a little bit trimming.
• 27:45
  But what are your thoughts?
• 27:47
  Yes, I mean...
• 27:49
  I'll say it's true for all of what it represents, right?
• 27:55
  It's true.
• 27:57
  I understand why they kept everything the way that it was.
• 28:00
  Most shows do try to keep it relatively close to what the original is.
• 28:06
  ah Does that mean that it's necessarily needed or wanted?
• 28:13
  Probably not.
• 28:15
  But...
• 28:17
  It reminded me that of what theater is kind of for, which was a night out of entertainment.
• 28:28
  And what I mean by that is like.
• 28:31
  you're, historically, right, you're paying a lot of money to go see a Broadway show.
• 28:35
  And like, this was their way of getting their money's worth, because it was so long.
• 28:42
  And there was so much to it.
• 28:44
  And so...
• 28:46
  I am curious...
• 28:48
  Actually, might have to do some additional recon, but I'm curious to see showtimes historically, what they were compared to what they are now today, because I feel like, you
• 29:04
  nowadays we have way more shows that are like 90 minutes, one act, done, out.
• 29:10
  And people are like, these are great!
• 29:11
  But then you also have those people who are like...
• 29:14
  What do you mean?
• 29:15
  I paid $300 for this ticket and it's done in 90 minutes?
• 29:20
  That's not nearly enough time.
• 29:22
  So I kind of see it on both sides, but from a historical aspect, I completely understand why it is the way that it is and why they probably wanted to stay true to that.
• 29:33
  Is it necessary?
• 29:35
  Probably not.
• 29:36
  Or let's implement more intermissions.
• 29:39
  Let's do three intermissions per three hour show.
• 29:41
  uh Or let's not do a maybe happy ending and have a two hour show with no intermission.
• 29:47
  Like, dear God.
• 29:51
  uh All that to say.
• 29:54
  the theaters more accessible so that people aren't dying to either go to the bathroom or stand up or get air because it was like 80 degrees in there.
• 30:07
  And like not to get on a soapbox, but while I'm 6'2", RJ is an average height here.
• 30:14
  And even he was just like, yeah, my knees did not like some of these seats that we sat in because they are so different.
• 30:20
  So like give up the people a little more leg room.
• 30:21
  That's all I'm saying.
• 30:22
  ah That being said, what grade would you give Ragtime?
• 30:28
  Is this a good show?
• 30:29
  Is this a medium show?
• 30:31
  Is this a bad show?
• 30:32
  Is this a show that you're gonna go see again every time you can?
• 30:35
  Are you gonna take your mom?
• 30:36
  Are you gonna take your sister?
• 30:37
  Are you gonna take your dog?
• 30:40
  Like, what are you taking to see Ragtime?
• 30:43
  What is that grade?
• 30:44
  Oof.
• 30:45
  You don't even have to give a grade if you don't want to, if you don't want to be that specific.
• 30:49
  I would probably give it a B.
• 30:52
  Okay.
• 30:54
  um Just for watchability because I know that like if I were to take someone like they're Again in today's times Time is everything the modern world people want to be engaged and I
• 31:09
  don't know that it's the most engaging show unless you are just so Into it already.
• 31:17
  It's it's very much like a Les Mis like if you aren't obsessed with Les Mis
• 31:23
  one hour in, you're gonna be crawling out of your seat into the lobby.
• 31:27
  Like you're ready to be done.
• 31:29
  ah So it falls into that same category for me where you're either just exhausted or you love it.
• 31:38
  Yeah, I'm going to give it a B too.
• 31:40
  So this is better for me than Les Mis.
• 31:43
  As we know, I have a giant distain for Les Mis.
• 31:46
  I just don't know what it is.
• 31:47
  I can't get into that story, perhaps because I'm French.
• 31:49
  No, I'm just kidding.
• 31:51
  I'm not kidding about being French.
• 31:53
  I'm kidding that maybe that's the reason why I didn't like it.
• 31:55
  But I got into the story a little bit more.
• 31:58
  I think, again, I think that it feels a little more relevant to today's society.
• 32:04
  It's a little more like on the nose for what we're dealing with.
• 32:08
  Um, so maybe that's what it is too, is like, feel a little, I'll feel a little more of affinity towards that storyline.
• 32:14
  I think I might even go ahead and give like a B minus.
• 32:17
  Like it was, if that length wasn't so lengthy, um, it probably be a little bit higher for me.
• 32:23
  And I got integrity of the show.
• 32:24
  I know that you don't want to cut things.
• 32:27
  I think there's things you can cut.
• 32:28
  I think that's the difference.
• 32:30
  I think that there needs to be somebody brave enough to stand up and say, we don't need this song and get rid of it.
• 32:36
  Somebody's trying to please everybody.
• 32:39
  Which is funny because I would be that person if I wrote a music be like keep everything we don't need to touch it but I think that there are some people that are just like I take
• 32:47
  sunset Boulevard for example for example like it doesn't change the story or the narrative but they took a big swing and it worked I Think sometimes you got to take a big swing with
• 32:59
  ragtime that swing is give us an extra intermission
• 33:04
  That's all I'm saying.
• 33:06
  Cut the show a little differently.
• 33:09
  Or theater, take a swing, cut out a few seats, give people more leg room.
• 33:13
  That's all I'm saying.
• 33:16
  I feel like I'm going to say that a lot during these episodes.
• 33:20
  So all that to say, it sounds like you would see this again, but dependent on who you'd go with.
• 33:27
  Correct.
• 33:29
  Perfect.
• 33:30
  And so with that, we conclude our episode two of our ragtime discussion.
• 33:35
  So thank you so much for joining here in our box seats.
• 33:36
  Until next curtain call.