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A Life In Moives: Jesse Malin · All The Right Movies

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All the rent movies. Hi everyone, welcome to ATR
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Meets, the Movie interview show brought to you by All the Right
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Movies. My name is Luke.
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On the show, we talk to people in entertainment about their
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work, the movies they love and how movies have influenced them.
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And on today's show, I'm talking to a man who's been in the music
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biz for over 40 years, from 80s hardcore punk band Heart Attack
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when he was a kid, to influential 90s band
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Degeneration, to continued critically acclaimed Solar Work
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since the turn of the century, It's a pleasure to be talking to
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the one and only Jesse Mallon. Great to have you on the show.
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Jesse, how you doing? I'm doing good.
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Good to be here, man. Yeah, it sounds like a fun show.
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I was checking it out earlier and I like what you guys do.
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So cool. Thanks for having me.
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Yeah. Awesome.
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Thank you. So what's it like being back on
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the road after the last 18 months?
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In some ways it feels like riding a bike, you jump right
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back in and other ways there is some real appreciation of seeing
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people's faces and and hearing the music play through those big
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PA systems. And there there's just after not
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having it, you know, there's something about that human
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connection of a crowd firing up and having that back and forth
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with your audience. And and so it was really great.
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I mean, we just did England, which is one of my favorite
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places to go. The audience's come out early.
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They watch the support bands, They they by merch, They they
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know the so. Grace.
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I mean, it must have felt like a distant memory over the last
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1218 months or so that that too. Yeah, well, we were playing, you
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know, to the cameras. I start out with a podcast in my
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house, live stream, you know, not even a podcast, a live
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stream where I set up a little camera on a stick with some gaff
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tape and took everybody into my home and recommended films and
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books and sang songs with back stories.
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But that grew to the band going in the basement of a club with
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nobody there but the cameras. So, you know, you finish a song
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and it's silent and there's no applause.
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It's kind of the silence is deafening.
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But you know, I got used to it knowing that there were people
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out there on the tour. I was telling stories about how
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I compared it to the film Wings of Desire, the Vin Vendors film
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where Peter Falk is the American actor Columbo.
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You know, he's out there. Yeah.
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And and he's, it's about angels and there's angels watching
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people. And he says he goes, I I can't
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see it, but I can feel that you're there.
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And like, you know, that's how I felt about the shows.
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I felt like it was like Wigs of desire, you know, like due to
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Falk. But after a while, you know, you
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look at the numbers and, and, and see how the people are
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watching and people are sending comments and things like that.
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And so that was a good connection.
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I mean, music in general is always for me to a way to say,
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all right, we're not alone. There's other people that are
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going through something that you might be going through.
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And you know, if we turn up the music loud enough, we might not
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feel the pain. Cool, but it's a great Peter
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Faulk impression as well. Yeah, I got a raincoat in the
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closet too when we were kids, you know, seen a lot of films
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with him. Obviously Colombo was a huge hit
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over here as a as a show and it was something comforting about
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him and amazing. And he had that one eye.
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I guess it's a glass eye. And it it just, I love to see
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actors wear their charisma and their their balls and their
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personality is so strong that they don't have to be
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traditionally good looking like by the book, like Jack Nicholson
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being one my favorites. You know, he's this little guy
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and receding hair, but he's got so much attitude.
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And I think, yeah, life is like that.
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And, and with Peter Falk, you know, I was a kid, I had a lazy
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eye and I had to wear a patch and glasses and I, I just felt
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like, you know, such a misfit. We were always moving and always
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the new kid on the bus and the new kid at school.
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And I have this patch and these glasses and my mother would say,
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get on the bus, Captain Hook, come on, Captain Hook, be brave.
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But Peter Falk, you know, was able to be all that and, and
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have such a hit series with Colombo, which which I did
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enjoy. And as I got more into film and
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got older, I was like, oh, that's the guy you know, from,
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from Cassavetes, from Colombo. He's in these Cassavetes films
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that are so edgy and like nothing I had ever seen when I
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saw my first Cassavetes. And there was Peter Falk and and
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in a different kind of lovable miss and a different kind of
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heart on his sleeve. And it the same way.
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It was a Kinect, but it was like, wow, he's done these
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really tough. Yeah.
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Human, human films in any place. This this, you know, bumbling
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sweet detective. I think he gave money to
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Cassavetes to get a woman under the influence into production.
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Oh, wow. That makes sense.
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Yeah. I mean, Cassavetes took wherever
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you get it, I guess. That film was so real to me.
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It felt when I was younger, I guess in the 80s, in my late
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teens, I'd seen a lot of tough films and I thought I could hang
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with, you know, the Midnight Cowboys and the Deliverances of
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the World. And I went to see in the
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theater, Woman Under the Influence.
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And it felt so stark and hard that I walked out the first two
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or three times that I tried to make it through.
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Granted, it's a long film, but it was just so intense.
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And I once, the first time I ever met Jim Jarmusch, was a fan
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of his work since the 80s. And we were at a birthday party
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for a photographer friend of ours, Bob Gruen.
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And Jim was there. And I had been at a party for
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the film Night on Earth. And I remember we were so
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excited. That's where I met Bob Gruen,
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the photographer. He was there and we went up to
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him. We were just starting
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Degeneration. And I said, Bob Gruen, you know,
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we got this band where you take our picture and he gave us his
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card. And it's like, I got good rates.
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They're not too bad, reasonable. And we're like, oh, boy.
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But then Debbie Harry was at this party, and she was there
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like Debbie Harry, Blondie. And she's like, she was nervous
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and excited, she told us, and we were just excited to meet her,
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but she was going to meet Jenna Rollins, who was in Night on
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Earth. So flash forward to a couple
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years later at Bob Gruen's Christmas party.
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And I did, I was talking to Jim Jarmusch for the first time.
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And I said, man, you worked with Jenna Rollins?
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You know, what was that like? And he said, well, once I
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started working with her, you know, obviously John was dead
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and she hadn't done anything. Maybe it's her first film coming
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back. And he got he got a call.
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Hey, Jim, it's Peter here. Peter.
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Fuck, yeah. Anything you need with, with
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with Jenna, just give me a call if you need anything.
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Just just checking in. I'm here.
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I was like, wow, that's old school white.
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Buddy look Bob Gruen. Did he photograph the New York
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Dolls as well? He photographed pretty much
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everybody. I mean, Bob, you know, started
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out doing Dylan, I think at Newport Folk and he made his
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bones with Ike and Tina touring with Ike and Tina and the Ike
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gets and actually had was on the first video cameras.
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There's a film out there of his time with, you know, Ike and
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Tina and a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
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And then went on to I mean, I guess his is he would say, or
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some people say his big hit single might be John Lennon.
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A lot of that, but also Zeppelin front of the plane and Kiss
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Ramones and of course the clash. And yeah, Bob is just he's got
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such a vibe. He's one of these guys that you
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want him around because he doesn't like he doesn't blow the
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vibe or feel intrusive and the camera and he's just there as a
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person. He's chill and then he catches
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the moment and he caught a lot of moments.
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So it's fun when you hang out with somebody like that.
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The stories are equally as good as the photos.
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And for years or push them to write a book from all these
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dinners with the stories and beers and stories.
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And then finally he's got the book of the stories out now.
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So that matches, you know, with the photos.
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But just this film and, you know, I'm a fan of of
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photography and other things that just just capture and
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express, you know, a feeling of the kind of things I like.
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So yeah. Does that well.
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Cool. Yeah.
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So I will. I'd like to go back a little
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bit, Jesse, if that's all right. Start us off with just to hear
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about some of your experiences growing up in New York.
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What kind of things influenced you like from an early age?
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An early age, you know, I came from a a broken home.
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My father left first grader. So but before that we moved a
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lot. So I was always the new kid.
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As I said, I had that patch. I was like, so my defense became
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like the class clown. That was how I didn't feel like
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a freak and an outsider. Little did I know.
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We're in the passion, moving and being the new kid and looking
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different. Feeling different was going to
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help me, I guess, into the world of punk rock, rock'n'roll,
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because you're an outsider. But then I felt so insecure so I
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would take the patch off and roll around the floor and throw
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it and you know, put on skits and goof around the class and
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and then we'd move. But when I I got to Queens, NY,
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I, I felt I was born in Queens and we moved around to Jersey a
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bit. When I got back to Queens I was
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living with my mom and I was pretty embarrassed that we all
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lived in one bedroom. My mother slept on a pull out
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couch and me and my sister shared A room.
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We didn't have a stereo and we didn't have a color TV like
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other kids had. It wasn't a fancy neighborhood
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but but it was Queens in the 70s and the 70s in Queens were
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pretty wild. Teenagers on the street blasting
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rock'n'roll, hanging out in parks, smell of pot.
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My mom tried to have a single life working as a waitress and
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makeup artist at whatever odd jobs she did.
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She occasionally would have babysitters so she could go out,
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you know, go see whatever the single scene and hang out on
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dates, whatever friends. So I was around babysitters.
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They were older and they all had a cool look and they loved
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Rock'n'roll and film. And I was just excited, you
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know, and I had exposure to, I guess shows like Batman, the
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series on reruns. And it was so exciting to me.
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And and I like cartoons like Flintstones and stuff like that.
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But I would get a glimpse of some films, children's films
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like Kirby and the Love Bug and you know, even then maybe some
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James Bond, but they'd let us see.
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But the movies, you know, my parents would talk about film
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when they were together. And then on my mother's side, it
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was always films like, oh, look at who that is or wow, he was in
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this. And there was these people that
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were dreamers that wanted to be singers, wanted to be actors,
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but they ended up just doing mundane stuff and not following
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through. But, you know, I was in school
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and I was hyper and I had all this anger and energy and, and I
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guess, you know, I'd seen some, a couple of films.
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I can't remember what the first one was, but I would feel like
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me and my cousin who lived across the street, like we'd
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want to go make a movie at first or second grade.
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Like we pretend we're like James Bond or pretend like in an
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elevator or the floor is falling out.
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Hold on. And so I, I just got exposed to
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music, you know, from the radio and then from my father would
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visit now and then he'd be playing stuff and we couldn't
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really talk, have conversations often he didn't know what to do
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with us. I kind of felt like we were
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talking through records, you know, through Jim Croce Records
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or Rock'n'roll. It just became a thing to me.
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And then my babysitters would have records and I'd listen to
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the radio and artists like Elton John and Jim Croce and Chuck
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Berry really spoke to me. But I was living in this one
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bedroom and I felt like such a Tor, you know, outcast until I
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watched this show called Good Times, which was a Afro American
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family with Jimmy Walker, Dino, my JJ and they all lived in one
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place and slept on the couch. And it was a tiny place where
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the couch was a pull out bed and, and so I didn't feel so
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weird. And I, I really love this show.
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It was funny. And I was obsessed with
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amusement parks where roller coasters and rides, any kind of
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adrenaline and cool T-shirts and rock'n'roll on the radio.
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And the radio was everywhere blasting out of cars.
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So I'd watch good times and I felt a little better about
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myself. And then a show called Happy
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Days came on. Yeah.
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And at the same time and the same night, see how to choose.
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And I remember I started to check out Happy Days to some
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kids with this and that. And it had that thing that
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America had in the 70s of fascination with the 50s,
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leather jackets. American feety had been a hit.
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So I really got into this character, Fonzie.
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And I started to put Vaseline in my hair.
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And I wanted a leather jacket. And I got a plastic vinyl one
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that was cheap, but it really spoke to me.
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And then I'd watch a show called Welcome Back Cotter with John
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Travolta about these misfit dumb kids in Brooklyn, the sweat hogs
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that. And it was a wonderful concept.
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Not the smartest show, but the teacher was one of them once.
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And he got out of the dumb class, the the lowest class.
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And he then became a teacher and came back to teach these kids in
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Brooklyn. And he always started the show.
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It a joke and he ended the show with a joke to his wife.
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So there was something very sweet.
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But it's the first the world got to see Travolta.
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So these shows I would start to write little sketches in class
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and give out props and I, you know, whatever I can have the
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class act out these things. And then I would see movies.
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My father would come to visit. When he did, he didn't know what
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to do with us. He'd take us to the movie.
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Same thing with my grandfather. And the movies were at that
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point, they didn't think too hard to not let us see certain
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things. So at a young age we saw films
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that had a restricted rated R and I was fascinated with what
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was going on at night, what was going on away from my town, what
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was going on the city, sex at a young age, violence, action.
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So I would read Mad magazine. If I wasn't able to see a film
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I've read they do a spoof on it for Paige and I could really
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digest some of the film from the Mad Magazine spoof.
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I would talk to babysitters about films and grill them.
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And in those days, films would run for a year, The Exorcist or
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they would go like 72 seconds Smash week.
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Like people would line up and there was films on TV, you know,
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that were edited that and there were there were films in the
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theater and and at a young age, it was a way out from the pain.
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It was the music coming through on the radio.
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Definitely Elton John, which actually spoke to me at a young
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age. Somebody said, oh, he's gay.
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And I said, well, then I guess that's OK because I like his
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music. So I guess like he was a message
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and also this ugly guy that that, you know, his thinning
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hair and not the, you know, tallest, most handsome guy.
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But he took all that stuff with this great voice and he made big
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glasses and big outfits and take something that's a weakness and
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make it into a strength. And that's one of my songs on
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the new record Tall Black Horses about that.
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But anyway, the influx of film and music, music from the
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street, going to movies with, you know, my mother's boyfriends
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didn't care. They'd want to impress her or
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they'd take us to see Taxi Driver or Billy Jack or my
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father would go with his New Girl girlfriend.
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So we were always being schlepped along.
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And then when we eventually could make it, about 20 blocks
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from the house, there was a theater called the Quartet and
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it had four movies in there. It was a new thing or at the
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time to me, 545 movies and you could pay for one and then sneak
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into the one you shouldn't see or sneak into them all.
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And so we would go from theater to theater like a pinball.
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And I got to see a lot of stuff and I was very curious on the
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sex and violence. And they were very worried about
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me in school in second grade, that they maybe go to a
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therapist. They're worried I wasn't going
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to have a childhood, that I wanted to be an adult so bad.
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I was so one. Flow of the Cuckoo's Nest for my
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third grade birthday. My mother took all my friends.
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It became my favorite movie and still is one of them.
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I was able to digest some of this stuff, not fully understand
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it. There was the 70s film era,
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which was so great, as well as the 70's rock and roll era.
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You know, if you read that book Easy Riders and Raging Bulls,
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you read Please Kill Me Ray. Easy Riders is like please film
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me a very similar oral history. But you know, films like death
15:57
wish, which don't really hold up now, meant a lot to me.
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I was angry and the city felt scary.
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So I I'd take a knife out of the draw on a newspaper and I'd
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recreate the scene in school with the kids and be like, all
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right, you're going to be reading a newspaper with a knife
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under it and someone's going to mug you and you cut the paper.
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And I would try to reenact scenes out of Death Wish or
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Dirty Harry. And some of the politics are a
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little different for me right now.
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But Billy Jack, Taxi Driver, there was so much of these
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characters that were outsiders feeling like they're being
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pushed to the limits and they're going to explode.
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Maybe it's just post Vietnam thing, some of it.
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Maybe it's just the isolated. And in this case it was more
16:39
men, but those characters are related to.
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And then as I got a little older, maybe a year or two, it
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was Dog Day afternoon and one flow of the Cuckoo's Nest where
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these guys wore their their humanity, their heart on their
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sleeves so heavily that they're prepared to go down with the
16:56
whole ship like Pacino character and dog day.
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He becomes friends with the people in the bank.
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It doesn't even do it right. And, and Cuckoo's Nest is very
17:05
similar to me where Nicholson Mcmurphy has to stay to get
17:09
Billy Bibbett laid and throw a party and, and, and he could
17:12
have got out, He had his moment, but something inside him he's,
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you know, this is where he's comfortable or that whatever.
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But so that's going on. And I'm really into Elton John
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and The Who and my babysitters, I have crushes on them and I
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would grill them on things about the world and I would try to see
17:28
as many films in the city or whatever.
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But I was in Queens a lot and that was my way out to the
17:34
world. And it it took away pain and it
17:36
felt so exciting and elected trick when you heard Benny and
17:40
The Jets on the radio and there was a crowd noise and you heard
17:43
applause. Live records were a new thing.
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You know, Chuck Berrys biggest hit was my Ding a Ling, which is
17:49
the dumb song. But it was live in live in
17:51
London. And then Frampton like and kiss.
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You know, Frampton comes alive like just to hear the crowd
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that's probably dubbed in. That was a thing.
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So to hear Benny and The Jets in the street and I was mad at my
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family and had a line about we'll fight our parents out in
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the street because I wanted like no rules and I want to do
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whatever I want to do, which whatever it was, eat candy and
18:12
stay up late. But that that feeling.
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So I started to really see a lot of films and I was feel very
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fortunate that it was the 70s and I got to hear all that.
18:21
And then I got into to Kiss, you know, and that that was the next
18:24
chapter that that hit me on a comedy Halloween special, Paul
18:29
Lynn Halloween special. And there they were a Firehouse.
18:31
And wow, well, it has violence, it has leather and this energy
18:36
and it's railing. If I was a little older, I would
18:38
have saw through it, but I was at that age where it spoke to
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me. If I was older, I'd have been
18:42
like, oh, this is cheesy, but some of us got taken in by Kiss
18:46
at that point. So I went from Elton John to
18:49
like Kiss, and that was everything.
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And then from there, you know, punk rock.
18:53
So you mentioned you were born in Queens, and I think that like
18:56
outside is when you say in New York, everybody thinks Manhattan
18:59
films like Annie Hall, Pelham, 123, Marathon Man, I think
19:02
influenced that. What did Manhattan symbolize or
19:05
mean to you in your youth growing up in like the outer
19:07
borough of Queens? Well, like, I have a song called
19:10
Brooklyn, and it's about people that lived in Brooklyn, 15
19:13
minutes away at the other side of the bridge.
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And they'd never really go into the city or they went when I was
19:18
a kid in Queens, that's where everything was.
19:21
My mother worked in Bloomingdale's, Yeah.
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And 59th St. And I'd go to work with her and
19:25
just she'd let me walk around the neighborhood and look at
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shops that had Led Zeppelin posters and crazy boots and
19:31
black light stuff and head shops.
19:33
And, you know, and I would meet all kinds of people in
19:36
Bloomingdale's and I'd get on the tram and ride over the
19:39
Roosevelt Island because it felt like a ride or, you know, I just
19:43
was the city. It's just it in the suburbs now.
19:45
It's reversed. When I wrote the song Brooklyn,
19:48
it was about if he didn't make it in the city, not make it like
19:51
huge like Sinatra make it but your, your dreams, you know, or,
19:56
or you won't be able to sustain to survive.
19:59
Some people have deeds and people took their tail, packed
20:02
up their tail, held it and went back to where they came from.
20:05
And this song is about going back to Brooklyn after it didn't
20:08
work out in the city. You know, now kids, it's a
20:12
different meeting. They've left the old apple of
20:14
Manhattan and they go to Queens and Brooklyn.
20:16
There's galleries and vegan shops and vintage and clubs and
20:20
and that's changed but. That song is, is almost 20 years
20:23
old. It is 20 years old.
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So it was a different concept till Williamsburg, Brooklyn and
20:27
Bushwick. But I would go into the city on
20:31
my own because once I realized the train that it was 2 trains
20:35
and a bus to go from Whitestone, Queens into Manhattan and I
20:39
could be down there. And I I went to see a film
20:43
called Rock'n'roll High School, a Ramones movie made by Rodger
20:47
Carman. Alan Arkish directed it.
20:49
You've probably seen it. It's great and I was looking for
20:52
a theater called the 8th St. Playhouse which I had no idea
20:54
was above Electric Lady Studios and I had no history about the
20:59
village. I'd never been down there but I
21:02
heard of these places CBT, BS, whatever.
21:04
So I I got out of the train on Broadway and 8th St. the R train
21:08
and I was supposed to go right make a right turn towards the
21:12
8th St. Playhouse which is 3 blocks WI
21:16
walked E past third Ave. 8th St. I'm looking for the A St.
21:20
Playhouse now turns to Saint Mark's place.
21:23
It has a different name. I don't know what this is.
21:25
Saint Mark's. I never seen a street with a St.
21:28
name. I'm walking down that street and
21:31
suddenly it's just shops with dead boys shirts, Ramones,
21:35
cardboard standees, record stores, scary fun people,
21:39
leather pants, music, blasting records, spike bracelets, things
21:43
you couldn't get in Queens, crazy pants, shoes.
21:47
And the further EI walked second Ave. that were people with stuff
21:50
laid out on the sidewalk selling stuff like, you know, stolen
21:53
shit. Who knows?
21:55
The further EI walked it got scarier and scarier.
21:58
People walking in the middle of the street yelling things like
22:00
it was like out of a, you know, a Scorsese film or something.
22:03
But so I turned around back and I made a mental note.
22:07
This is the place I found my tribe.
22:10
I've come home, but I got to find the A St.
22:12
Playhouse. So I turned around and I walked
22:14
the other way somehow. So maybe I asked somebody and
22:18
then I ended up right there waiting online.
22:20
I used to get the things very early hours and be the first,
22:24
you know. And there were these two kids in
22:25
front of me and I, they were like, yeah, this is the A St.
22:28
Playhouse. And they said you like the
22:30
Ramones. And, and I said, yeah, I love
22:32
the Ramones. And so you like the pistols.
22:34
I said, yeah, I do. But the Ramones, that's it for
22:37
me. They were from Queens.
22:39
They wore the same jacket that Fonzie wore in my favorite TV
22:42
show, Happy Days. They let it.
22:44
So it was a lot of stuff. And they had these anthems like
22:46
Kiss hat where they bang on a floor Tom and shout lobotomy or
22:50
Hey ho, let's go. Wasn't that far from rock'n'roll
22:53
night or shout it out loud. Or there was this gang, this
22:57
thing of this band that was 4 superheroes, four guys with
23:01
their personalities, just like Kiss or The Beatles, you know?
23:04
So but Kiss had been the the prototype for me to understand
23:08
a, a band, a gang, A-Team, a thing.
23:11
And Ramones had that. Except I could learn the songs a
23:14
lot easier and write my own. So I'm online and these older
23:18
kids turn around and they said, yeah, you like the Pistols, you
23:20
like the Ramones. Well, you should hear the Clash.
23:24
I said, yeah, I don't know if I ever heard them.
23:25
So they're better than the remotes.
23:27
And I was like, yeah, sure. Whatever.
23:30
Next thing I know, I buy a Clash record.
23:32
I'm like, oh, I know this one. I fought the law and I heard
23:35
this on the radio suddenly reading the lyrics, and my life
23:37
changed. But while I'm standing there
23:39
waiting to get into the film because it was opening day, I
23:42
was that obsessive. I would go into the city to see
23:45
Rock'n'roll High School. I got to be there 4 hours early
23:48
opening day. Get the best seat because it's
23:51
general admission. So you just put the work in and
23:53
it's 8th St. and it's the West Village.
23:55
It's a lot of shoe stores and record stores and we're online
23:59
and it's not that busy. I feel like it's a Friday
24:01
afternoon and as we're standing there waiting for the movie to
24:05
let us in, there's only about 10 of us I happen to notice on the
24:09
other side of the street walking.
24:11
I guess it'd be East is Johnny Ramone and some blonde
24:15
girlfriend, whatever wife. I don't know.
24:17
And I see him now. I think back, what was he doing?
24:20
He live on 10th St. He's walking by to see, you
24:23
know, probably like your name of your movies, like on this big
24:27
thing like I like we do that, you know, first time it happens,
24:30
it's exciting. Of course, if I saw him, I
24:33
chased him down the road and I want an autograph, but he would
24:36
be the first real person that I was a fan of that meet.
24:40
And when he spoke, he had a very nasal, strange kind of voice
24:44
that didn't he never sang in that band.
24:46
He's playing the guitar. Such an amazing guitarist and he
24:48
looks so cool. The legs spread and the
24:51
downstroke. Inventing that really and
24:53
perfecting that to such a level. I couldn't think of any song
24:56
except Zeppelin. Communication Breakdown, I guess
24:59
has that. But but Johnny really invented
25:01
and perfected that and I asked him for an autograph and I was
25:04
just in heaven like him. He was so nice and great.
25:07
I ran back to my place online and then I made a note that I
25:10
would go back into that city. I would go back to that
25:13
neighborhood again and go to the store Trash and Vaudeville that
25:17
had a glossy pink bag and they sold stuff like the shirt you're
25:20
wearing, the cast like that you couldn't get anywhere else,
25:23
especially then, not at all. Like if you wanted cool bondage
25:27
pants or whatever they were called, you wanted Doc Martens.
25:29
You had to send somebody with money to England, but that would
25:32
be later. But these things they had, they
25:34
can have in Queens, cool T-shirts, spike bracelets, like
25:37
you saw in the pictures of the bands, the Sid Vicious and this
25:40
one and that one and badges, buttons.
25:43
So I would go into the city and I, I started to make a group
25:47
with kids that had equipment in Whitestone, Queens.
25:50
If you had a basement, all right, you're the manager.
25:52
You, you have a drum set. Your, your brother has drum set.
25:55
You're the drummer. We're going to do this band and
25:56
I'm going to dress you. So I go into the city with, you
25:59
know, whatever money I could muster up and I'd come back and
26:02
the older kids, you got to remember now Queens, NY is, is
26:06
pretty close minded, you know, the Archie Bunker, all in the
26:10
family. It's a, it's big bigoted,
26:11
prejudice, homophobic, racist in a lot of ways.
26:14
Not everybody. So in the village people are on
26:17
the radio. They had Macho Man addressed,
26:19
you know, very openly gay, which was wonderful, but not on the
26:22
same label as Kiss Casablanca. So that's in the air and people
26:26
or you know, they're making fun of people and people getting
26:29
beat up for stuff. They would fight in those days.
26:31
If you look different, when I was into a Kiss, I got beat up
26:34
by people that like Zeppelin that were older, a Sabbath.
26:37
When I got into a punk, you got beat up by everybody.
26:41
So, So The funny thing is I'd come back with the pink glossy
26:46
trash and vaudeville bags. That's what they gave you.
26:48
And then these kids would go like where you coming from?
26:52
The village, The village and what they kept saying and what
26:56
they was to the village meant, like, you were gay and whatever.
27:00
Obviously, that's not a bad thing.
27:01
And these days it's way more accepted.
27:04
Thank JA. So that would be the thing,
27:06
like, oh, yeah, you're coming from the village, you know?
27:08
Yeah. And they would say that.
27:10
And that's where I was coming from, because that's where the
27:11
stuff was now. In my eyes, the West Village was
27:14
where all that stuff was, and the East Village was where the
27:18
Rock'n'roll was. I didn't realize how everything
27:21
is mixed and there's degrees of sexuality, all that.
27:23
I had no idea of this, but I did know that Elton John was gay and
27:28
David Bowie was gay. Even if they said they were bi
27:30
or whatever, they that it was a part of the human thing.
27:32
And so those people, you know, it broke those, those
27:35
stereotypes and those boundaries and that ignorance.
27:38
You know, I came from a Jewish background.
27:39
We get into fights, people would say, oh, you're cheap, there's a
27:42
penny on the floor. There was a lot of
27:44
anti-Semitism. I never thought I was a Jew.
27:47
I always wanted to be just, you know, my own self.
27:51
And none of my favorite bands were Jews.
27:53
I'd say to my babysitter who's Jewish in Rock'n'roll because
27:56
you'd see the big crosses on Sabbath and broad adultery and
28:00
Zeppelin. Everyone had a crucifix and
28:02
should be like Bob Dylan. And I'd be like, oh, some curly
28:05
head guy with acoustic guitar with a weird nose talking weird.
28:09
I didn't get it back then, you know, And I realized, you know,
28:12
down in the road that there's so much Jews in, in Chopas.
28:15
I don't care. I wasn't bar mitzvahed.
28:17
I wasn't raised any religious way.
28:19
Yeah, the Judaism I liked was Mel Brooks.
28:22
And, you know, you know, films like that were impactful too.
28:25
So there was so much hate, racism, you know, they had
28:29
fireworks on 4th July. They blow up the whole
28:31
neighborhood. Halloween, they'd wreck it.
28:33
Like it was so fucked up. It was just so much.
28:36
But my family wasn't like that. You know, we, we were fans.
28:39
My cousin was fan of Hank Garren, had a poster.
28:42
And we, you know, it was never like we, we didn't have that
28:45
Mike, my grandfather brought down into my mom and my uncle.
28:49
Like it was just, there wasn't that kind of thing maybe being
28:52
Jews that were not that far off from the times of the Holocaust
28:57
that there was acceptance of in my household of that maybe in in
29:02
some ways, some judgment of people that were different.
29:05
But the homophobia was pretty huge.
29:07
But it is an interesting thing with all that attitude in Queens
29:12
and probably all of the boroughs and suburbs and parts of
29:15
America. Dog Day Afternoon comes out and
29:18
it stars Al Pacino. And Al Pacino is, you know,
29:22
superstar from the godfather of Italian macho, right?
29:27
So you go into this film in a pack theater.
29:29
Here's the new Pacino. It's about robbing a bank.
29:31
And it's still one of my favorite movies.
29:33
True story. And you're watching this film
29:36
with every knucklehead, homophobic, racist or whatever.
29:39
Probably some good people, too. It's packed.
29:41
Just, you know, regular Joe Queens.
29:45
And as you're watching the film that robbed the bank and, you
29:47
know, if you know the film and somewhere in the middle, you're
29:49
just rooting for them. I mean, it's like you want them
29:51
to win. You want the money, you want
29:53
them to get away. And then you find out why he's
29:55
robbing the bank and he's robbed in the bank to get his
29:58
boyfriend, wife, male, a sex change to become a woman, Leon.
30:02
And this is the true story. And nobody in the theater, they
30:05
stick with him. They back him.
30:07
One, because the story's so good. 2 Because Pacino fucking
30:11
plays it, man. He plays it so hard.
30:14
So the whole theater is with him and the biggest, you know,
30:18
homophobic, macho douchebags, all you know, the you're rooting
30:22
for this guy and, and they bring in his wife, played by Chris
30:26
Sarandon. And, and you see that he's a
30:28
mess and a nervous wreck by it's been beaten down by whatever he
30:32
has in his mind and his life. And you still root for this guy.
30:36
So it it was a great little observation and lesson.
30:39
I didn't realize till years later how powerful that was.
30:42
And of course, Pacino Rosenma, yeah, Pacino would go and they
30:46
would go and play Cruising years later freaking film that, which
30:49
is a weird, flawed film, but he went for another extreme, you
30:53
know, role in the, you know, S&M leather West Village world.
30:57
Yeah, Cruising. That's a, that's a film that
30:59
doesn't get talked about too much, but it's it's pretty
31:02
fantastic. I've recently read Sil Sylvan's
31:05
biography and it seems like you couldn't move at the time
31:09
without seeing something cool or iconic.
31:11
Did you feel that? I mean, it might have been maybe
31:13
5-10 years on. We felt we missed a lot of that,
31:16
but you know, my drive home from the city after my mother would
31:19
take us to visit somebody and look out the window of the car
31:22
and see all the hookers lined up and see people outside of Max's.
31:25
And it looked like, you know how the hookers look outside the
31:27
window. And the Taxi Driver film of
31:29
Travis Bickles, the character. You'd see people hang out in the
31:34
street. I mean, outside my window.
31:35
I didn't want to go to bed. Even in Queens, they've been
31:37
blasting Zeppelin on a boom box and drinking.
31:40
And, you know, the special city bus was full of weed, like a
31:43
Cheech and Chong film. And in the city it was just like
31:47
freedom and sex. It's before AIDS, It's they you
31:50
could go to clubs. When I started to go to clubs
31:52
1213, they didn't ask you for your ID.
31:54
You didn't have, you had to be 918, but then eventually 21.
31:58
They didn't enforce it, you know, So I started playing music
32:01
in clubs from I was 12 years old and going to Max's and going to
32:05
CBG BS. And it was more about what you
32:08
played and what you know, who you brought in the scene and how
32:10
you looked and how you carried yourself.
32:12
But there was so much mystery and the city was falling apart.
32:17
But yet a lot of the things that in great art, I think come out
32:21
of times of, of poverty. So, you know, that's probably
32:24
why all the people moved to Brooklyn and Queens because the
32:26
artists couldn't afford the corporate Manhattan in the 90s
32:30
and early 2000s. You got to go where you could
32:32
live and create. So the East Village, which as I
32:35
walked further E on Saint Mark's, bombed out buildings and
32:39
really tough neighborhoods of Puerto Rican gangs and a lot of
32:43
junkies and violence and people desperate.
32:46
But in there you can find a $200 rent for a place where you could
32:49
rehearse and do all these things.
32:51
So yeah, the city was was everything.
32:53
It was eye opening. It was a change.
32:55
And I guess the main thing was it was a place that you could be
32:58
yourself, you know, you could be different.
33:01
You know what, like I said early on, the music spoke to me, film
33:04
spoke to me. It's okay to be scared.
33:06
It's okay to look different. It's okay to be angry.
33:08
It's okay, there's other people that are going through this,
33:11
feel isolated and we can get through this because you're not
33:15
alone. These songs are speaking to you
33:16
and these neighborhoods in these streets spoke to me and we kind
33:20
of missed out. When I went to CBG BS and
33:23
audition with my first band, Heart Attack, we were influenced
33:26
by the Pistols and the Ramones and the Clash and Dead Boys.
33:29
So we went there on a Monday night for the CBG BS audition
33:32
showcase and we failed. They said you missed it, it's
33:35
over what you're doing. They tried to tell us that the
33:38
music was over, but I think we also are supposed to bring like
33:40
35 drinking drunks to pay for the car, which we didn't know
33:44
anybody with kids drinking in a brown paper bag in an alley
33:47
somewhere. What happened was they said, I
33:50
said, what do you mean we missed?
33:51
He said, Oh yeah, that shit's over.
33:52
It's 1980, It's 81. It's it's done.
33:55
Try something new. Like really.
33:58
Well, I only knew that the main three food groups have punk them
34:01
the distance, the Clash in the Ramones, maybe the Dead Boys,
34:04
but you know, Blondie was playing disco and the Ramones
34:08
are trying to have power pop hits and blah, blah, blah.
34:10
So I said, yeah, won't you try something new?
34:12
I said what? They go like rockabilly or New
34:14
Romantic. I'm like, I'm not going to dress
34:16
up like a pirate and you know, rockabilly like.
34:19
So I started to walk further east towards Avenue A past the
34:22
Bowery and I saw Flyers for groups like the Stimulators and
34:25
the Bad Rains and, and there were clubs and everything was
34:27
put up with. We paste on a flyer on a wall
34:30
and a bucket and you just put a brush.
34:32
And even things are bands that aren't advertised as much in the
34:35
Village Voice, the paper that you got that had all the gigs
34:38
listings, the free listings weekly.
34:41
So I ended up walking down and and saw things and I had seen
34:45
this kid online backstage to try to meet the Clash on at the
34:48
Palladium. And it's this little kid that
34:50
the Clash was so nice to. Turns out it's the same age as
34:53
me, but he lives in the city and his name is Harley Flanagan.
34:56
He's a drummer. The Stimulators.
34:59
So I saw the flyer. I was like, all right, I went to
35:01
see them. They had a little 7 inch out,
35:03
independent 7 inch, loud, fast rules.
35:05
And there were kids my age with the gig and they were jumping up
35:08
and down and knocking into each other.
35:10
They weren't just pogoing like the 70 Sevens thing.
35:13
They were pushing in and out and moving side to side and knocking
35:17
tables over. And the audience was just a lot
35:22
of kids that would eventually make other bands like the
35:24
Beastie Boys and stuff from that band, which I see as a bridge
35:28
band from the punk days to what would become hardcore.
35:32
We we start to see the Bad Brains.
35:34
And they were the fastest, tightest, greatest group I'd
35:36
ever seen. They even had a song called At
35:38
the Movies or Love Movies. And HR, the singer would do
35:42
backflips. And, you know, and my friend
35:44
Jack Flanagan said, you know, you got to see this.
35:46
And we went. And then he started to listen to
35:49
his Ramones records on Faster Speed and listen to groups like
35:52
The Dickies. But at that point, the fastest
35:55
stuff you could hear was the Ramones or The Dickies.
35:57
And then here's this Bad Brains from DC jazz fusion chops as
36:02
players, tight as hell and angry and punk.
36:06
It was like this great thing. And, and, and then suddenly we
36:09
start to feel like, wow, there's something else that could
36:11
happen. Maybe we can add something to
36:13
this. And subconsciously you're saying
36:15
that to ourselves in some way out West.
36:18
Here's a record. You'd go into a record store.
36:19
The record guy would be like, check this out.
36:21
Here's some stuff in England you might like.
36:23
It's called Oi. All right, give me the UK Subs.
36:25
Cockney rejects. Give me dis.
36:27
Give me discharge. Wow, this is different.
36:29
This is crazier. Give me exploited even then.
36:32
All right, give me the Dead Kennedy's record.
36:34
You'd hear it. You'd look at the cover, look in
36:36
some fanzine from the West Coast.
36:37
Holy shit. Circle Jerks.
36:39
Wow, this is faster. Black Flag.
36:42
Suddenly these bands go on tour. I go see them.
36:44
I start to change the way I'm writing with my band.
36:47
I'm in junior high school. I put together.
36:49
I put ads in the Village Voice and Flyers up in head shops and
36:52
I find a trio. I put together a band after
36:55
different failed attempts and that's Heart Attack, which we
37:00
started to play in the city and we finally got booked at CBS and
37:03
Max's the summer of 81 with other bands of kids from Queens,
37:07
Jersey, Long Island, Brooklyn, around my age, maybe a little
37:11
older that all found each other on a corner in East Village here
37:15
and there without cell phones, without like in the Mel Brooks
37:18
Baseballs, use the shorts. You just had that thing and a
37:22
Heart Attack put out the first, I think the first New York
37:24
hardcore single, God is Dead. I didn't know anything about
37:27
Nietzsche. It was an EP3 songs recorded in
37:30
Long Island City in Queens and I was on a label Damaged Goods,
37:34
which was my friend Lyle Hyson had a fanzine that would review
37:37
Gang of Four and The Stranglers an interview other bands and
37:41
Dead boys and Jello Biafra. And it really chronicled the
37:44
scene and records coming out at that time.
37:47
And he thought, wow, there's this label, you know, in DC
37:50
Discord. We had met those guys.
37:52
They put out teen idols and minor threat and SOA Henry
37:55
Rollins first band, right? And and Lyle put together
37:58
damaged goods and we did one single with them and it took so
38:01
long for it to come out and we had all these young angry
38:04
issues. So we were like, we're cutting
38:06
the, the limited pressing to 300.
38:09
And so it became a collector item.
38:11
The ban went on from I was 12 to 16, did 3 records.
38:15
We got to tour America a bunch. I had it went to a weird high
38:18
school that I could go away from and not get beat up and be on
38:22
tour. Go to Mexico City.
38:24
We went out West, we'd have a group called GBH and Social
38:26
Distortion. And you took a credit card, like
38:29
a fake telephone card number from some guy in Times Square
38:33
for 5 bucks and you could book the whole tour because long
38:35
distance calls were pricey. And, you know, 12 to 16.
38:40
We play with all those bands, Misfits, Ted Kennedy, Circle
38:43
Jerks, Black Flag and did our records.
38:45
And I played the whole club scene in New York.
38:47
I never really got into drugs. Music was like the thing.
38:50
It was a big, big message. I mean, Straight Edge has become
38:53
kind of trendy. But it was a sentiment that Ian
38:56
Mackay, the singer of mine, it's Red Hat and, you know, put it in
38:59
a song. But also people like Jello
39:00
Biafra from the Dead Kennedys and Henry Rollins and other
39:03
people like, you know what, we're going to have something to
39:05
say. We're going to be in your face.
39:07
We're going to be loud, crazy, and we're not going to be on
39:10
drugs. We're not going to be the
39:11
hippies or Sid Vicious or Johnny Thunders moaning and burning
39:14
out. We're going to be here.
39:16
We're going to make a statement. And the Bad Brains were all
39:18
about PMA, positive mental attitude.
39:20
They were dabbling into little by little and growing into
39:23
Rastafarian culture, which had a lot of positive sides,
39:27
vegetarianism and health and just a, you know, a spirituality
39:32
that was going on. So it's different elements.
39:34
Reggae music and you know, a lot of things were just coming to us
39:38
and through hardcore, which would be this movement in the
39:41
early 80s was a little blip. It didn't get records, money
39:45
put, it didn't get a lot of attention till maybe now.
39:48
But it was something that we were part of.
39:50
It wasn't. Oh, you're trying to copy Johnny
39:52
Rotten. This is like we're singing about
39:54
shit that's going on now. Ronald Reagan, nuclear arms
39:57
race, you know, the war in Central America.
39:59
We could be 16, get drafted. Vietnam was not that far behind.
40:03
And and we had our own way of looking and dancing and the
40:07
music. And you had one minute, the
40:08
songs were faster and shorter and you had like 60 seconds to
40:11
say everything you felt in a song.
40:14
And we got to work with, you know, all kinds of wonderful
40:16
people and play, you know, a recorded a record at Radio City
40:19
Music Hall upstairs where the Ramones had worked and, you
40:22
know, Blondie and Rick Rubin was in a group.
40:25
The producer called the Pricks, and he'd open up for my band
40:28
Heart Attack. Gave a couple gigs at Max's,
40:30
like come home from school. The phone was everything Ma, I'm
40:33
14. Anybody call?
40:35
She's like, yeah, Jello Biafra. And then one day he called.
40:38
I'm like, stop, Ma, stop joking. Then he called.
40:41
Yeah, Rick the Prick called Rick the Prick.
40:43
I'm like, because it was Rick Rubin, he'd say, yeah, it's Rick
40:46
from the Pricks. And you know, we would do stuff
40:50
with with him, with his band and, and, and other bands, great
40:53
bands, Reagan Youth and the Misguided.
40:56
And there was just so much the nihilistics and they were all
40:59
from different areas and every band was a little different in
41:01
that first few years of New York hardcore.
41:04
And then it kind of got a little more cookie cutter to me.
41:07
But and some of those things that I learned from that time
41:11
period was the DIY thing, like make shit happen, do it
41:14
yourself. Like if you can't, no one wants
41:16
to sign you. We'll make your own record
41:18
label. You can't book, be booked at a
41:20
club, put on your own gig. You know, you don't have an
41:22
agent. Book your own tour.
41:24
Get a stolen credit card. So you were like, you were
41:28
obviously, you were in heart attack.
41:29
You're in a number of bands, the 80s, nineties, and you took the
41:33
leap from hardcore punk to solo singer-songwriter.
41:36
I mean, I can't imagine it was as clean cut as that, but it's
41:39
quite a dramatic change. Yeah, it was.
41:42
I mean, I mean, for, you know, me telling the story, I always
41:44
loved songs that had great lyrics and I loved, you know,
41:48
the imagery of, you know, to me an Elton John or a Jim Croce
41:51
song, Sam Cooke or something like that.
41:53
Even, you know, a Rod Stewart song that had like a story like
41:56
the killing of Georgie or Maggie May or whatever, you know, it
42:00
just so it wasn't that different to me, but to my friends it
42:03
seemed weird. But we were out there touring
42:05
and everybody was just more concerned about the mosh pit and
42:08
the slam dancing and the they weren't listening to the lyrics
42:11
or the songs we felt. And it was frustrating because
42:14
Degeneration had some pretty good lyrics and something to
42:17
say. It wasn't just about like stupid
42:19
shit like, you know, tits and ass and cars and girls.
42:22
It was a little more socially conscious stuff.
42:25
So when I went solo, I, I stripped it down to an acoustic
42:28
level where I wanted people, just me and a piano and acoustic
42:32
guitar to hear the songs. And degeneration was always
42:35
misunderstood in the press. They always wrote about the
42:37
image and not not the songs as much.
42:39
So finally, you know, I was brave enough to go under my own
42:42
name and, and some other friends of mine had broken up bands and
42:46
went solo. And first I thought it was very
42:48
adult, but people started to listen to the songs more and get
42:52
them. And at least it appeared that
42:54
way in the in the press. And then when I went on the
42:56
road, people seemed to sing along here and there and talk
43:00
about the songs with me. And it's kind of all I wanted it
43:03
at that moment. And that was very, very exciting
43:06
and scary to be alone with acoustic guitar and eventually a
43:09
band go out and open up for people in theaters and, you
43:12
know, just figure out how to do that as a singer and
43:15
communicator. But I'd had a little experience
43:18
when I needed money in the, I guess, in the 80s, I'd go in the
43:21
subway train and do some busking and I'd play like, Ramon songs
43:25
and 50s songs and try to pretend they were all 50s songs for the
43:29
working class people. And you know, I'd get a few
43:32
bucks on a Friday and be able to eat for the weekend and drink.
43:38
Your lyrics said like stuff full of movie references.
43:40
The first thing I picked up when I when I first started listening
43:43
to you like 19 years ago or whenever it was almost grown
43:47
from the Fine Arts. You know, it's dark from
43:49
outsiders. So what would the like the movie
43:51
characters that that you were drawn to?
43:54
Again, these people that were outsiders that were fighting for
43:58
what they believed in. An almost grown, I reference
44:00
Billy Jack saw that movie with Tom Laughlin and, you know,
44:04
fighting for, you know, people, Native Americans and
44:08
underprivileged kids and then just using martial arts.
44:11
I mean, of course it's violence. Like don't push me.
44:13
And then he beats everybody up. It's, you know, an eye for an
44:16
eye. But you know, Billy Jack was
44:18
this great independent film. I didn't realize that the story
44:21
behind it, how powerful that would be.
44:24
But as far as in the history of independent film and the success
44:27
of it, I just like the character, you know, characters
44:31
like that, characters like Travis Bickle and Taxi Driver,
44:35
probably Danny Rose, Woody Allen character.
44:37
And oh, it's not PC to say right now, but it's a very positive
44:41
person. Acceptance, forgiveness, love.
44:45
Yeah, exactly. You know, people like that at
44:48
early age, I guess Dirty Harry and Charles Bronson, like Clint
44:51
Eastwood, all that. But it kind of went away.
44:54
And more people like Jack Nicholson's character and
44:57
Cuckoo's Nest RP Mcmurphy and and I guess that those kind of
45:02
people, Sonny Warsick, the Pacino character in Dark Day,
45:05
Those would be some of my favorites.
45:06
And Brando and the Fugitive kind.
45:09
Definitely an old cinema met film in the 60s and and then
45:13
eventually, you know, people that that seem to really care,
45:16
but we're in a messy place like Harvey Keitel's Charlie and mean
45:20
streets and then female characters, you know, Ellen
45:24
Burstyn, Alice doesn't even live here anymore was one of my
45:26
favorite films, but was my mother's favorite movie.
45:30
And it really is kind of very much like a single mom dealing
45:33
with a crazy kid that wants to play guitar and be friends with
45:36
Jodie Foster and, you know, do bad things.
45:39
And he's just a kid that the kid and Alice doesn't live anymore.
45:41
But you know, that my I could really relate to that film and,
45:45
and how Ellen Burstyn was and, and even films like corny as it
45:49
may be Wizard of Oz, just just the message Miracle on 34th St.
45:55
as I got older, Casablanca would be, you know, one of my
45:58
favorites. As as popular as it is, it, it
46:00
has so much in the in the dialogue and the writing and I
46:04
don't know, it's just amazing. Chinatown.
46:06
One of my favorite films ever too.
46:08
Incredible you also you had a small part to play in Scorsese.
46:12
He's bringing out the dead as well.
46:13
How did that come about? You know, somebody said, oh,
46:17
they're they're interviewing people for this, this movie,
46:20
it's going to be in New York. And I said, I want to go get,
46:22
you know, can I get in there? But you know, I always believe
46:25
in manifesting things in life where, you know, you got to say
46:28
it to the universe. I'm not like some super
46:30
spiritual, like whatever a person.
46:31
But I feel like if you just kind of say it out loud or kind of
46:35
put your eyes on the prize, so to speak.
46:38
So I said to my girlfriend, you know, I just want to like be in
46:40
a movie. I just want to do some acting.
46:42
I don't know. I want to kind of do that.
46:44
Just set it. Next thing you know, I got this
46:46
opportunity to read for Ellen Lewis, the casting director, and
46:49
Martin Scorsese at the World of Astoria, where probably Danny
46:52
Rose, Louie Allen film has a lot to do with this particular hotel
46:57
in this in this film. And I had to go up in this
46:59
little room and read for him. And it was that alone was
47:04
amazing. I was like, wow, that's great.
47:05
I called my sister. I said, I can't play this walk
47:07
through the Waldorf. And I read.
47:09
And he asked me if I did any acting.
47:11
And I said, well, I was in the school play, but I've done a lot
47:13
of music videos. I'm a singer.
47:14
And I read this line and I got a call a couple days later.
47:18
They liked you. But they cut that scene out now.
47:21
And but Marty Scorsese has a memory of an elephant.
47:25
You know, you, he'll think of you.
47:26
And I said, whatever, this was great enough.
47:28
You know, about two weeks later, I got a call.
47:32
We got a part for you. I said, when do I come in and
47:34
read? They said, no, you don't have
47:36
to, you've got the part. I said, what?
47:37
What? You know this tiny part?
47:39
So it was a doorman at CBG BS no big stretch.
47:44
You know it's a film about an EMS worker.
47:46
It's kind of like after hours meets taxi driver called
47:48
bringing out the dead. I walked the guy into the the
47:52
person that's ODA musician on stage.
47:55
Turns out it's Paul Simon's son, Harper Simon, who's.
47:58
Oh, I did not know that. From Queens, yeah, yeah.
48:00
And we're at CBG BS where I was very comfortable, but we spent
48:04
two days. I didn't get on so good with
48:05
Nick Cage to start a film, but Bing Rhames is very nice.
48:09
And Marty, just right away we started talking movies.
48:12
I walked in to CBGB's and I had a trailer on Bleecker St. and
48:18
there's a light intersection on Bleecker and Bowery.
48:22
And that's the scene in Mean Streets, I always thought, where
48:24
the car stops and the light takes forever to change.
48:27
And he goes, what is this, a coffee and cake light?
48:29
What is this? And so I walked up to Scorsese
48:33
right away and I said, is that the coffee and cake light right
48:35
out there? And suddenly he started talking
48:38
to me and we just started talking music for two days that
48:40
we were filming and music would come on, Jane's Addiction would
48:43
come on. And he goes, that's James
48:45
addiction. They're one of the good ones,
48:46
right? And I was like, yeah, So it just
48:50
became like a, a great experience.
48:52
And he started to let me sit next to him and like watch back
48:56
the thing. And he, I didn't really have a,
48:57
a official line. Like you better have a line come
49:00
up with something to say. So my line was like, right this
49:03
way. Like my father would joke that,
49:05
oh, your line was walked this way.
49:06
But you know, I got paid like $1500 for two days and I would
49:10
have probably paid a lot more to sit to be around a guy.
49:14
We really talked a lot of music in between watching how the
49:17
cameras all worked. It was this crazy shot where the
49:20
camera was on this tracking coaster kind of thing and to
49:24
film coming in the door of the club.
49:27
And the film has a great soundtrack.
49:29
I do will say honestly, I don't think it's the best film of his
49:33
and I I think there's moments and there's a lot of, there's
49:36
some Johnny Thunders and Clash and yeah, reggae and great stuff
49:39
and it's filmed good. I got to go back to it.
49:41
But yeah, it's a compared to all the the body work that he had.
49:46
Yeah, it's a little going to rated it, isn't it?
49:48
Yeah, I met him recently again and I brought up that stuff and
49:51
he appeared to remember, like me and whatever.
49:54
And really, well, I don't know, we were talking.
49:56
I was giving him, we were at this David Johansson thing.
49:59
And I said, you know, you did this film After Hours.
50:02
Your music is always so spot on, like every film from Mean
50:05
Streets, Goodfellas, whatever. You know, I said when you did
50:09
the punk scene and After Hours, you put the ultimate hardcore
50:13
song in there. You put pay to come by the Bad
50:15
Brains. I mean, and he's 76 years old.
50:17
He just goes pay to come is the best pay to come.
50:20
Like 76 year old man telling me Batman.
50:23
And I was like, you know, I just, it was like a week before
50:26
I I'd seen Mata Hoople do a reunion at the Beacon Theatre
50:29
and Ian Hunter's 80 years old. They were really good.
50:32
So I was like, yeah, Marty, I saw Mata Hoople, you know too.
50:35
And it was great. He's 80.
50:37
And I said, you know, you're so good.
50:38
You not only put Mata Hoople and Alice doesn't live her anymore
50:42
all the way from Memphis, but you have it in the dialogue
50:45
where Ellen Burstyn says turn down that Mato Hoopo.
50:52
I would like to know what your perception is of British
50:55
culture. Actually, Jesse, I know that
50:57
you're obviously you're a big fan of The Clash and of the
50:59
British bands, but what about films?
51:01
Are there any that stand out or do they translate well for you?
51:04
You know, my family was really big on A Christmas Carol, the
51:07
Alistair SIM version that was like 1.
51:09
Like there was like, that's the one you got to watch in the
51:11
house. Obviously it's a kid Bond films,
51:14
you know, from the Ian Fleming books.
51:17
I grew up as a Rodger Moore Bond guy and then went backwards to
51:20
Sean Connery. But at that age, it really spoke
51:23
to me. The action, the excitement, the
51:26
the violence, the just all the as a little kid, like the
51:29
imagination going wild. But in time, I guess, you know,
51:32
Mona Lisa with Bob Hoskins. Oh yeah, is definitely one of my
51:37
favorite, you know, I guess films from that I would say, you
51:40
know, culturally, we grew up first with Benny Hill watching
51:44
this crazy goofy show. Get to see some titties and
51:48
people dressing up in drag and slapstick to the Kenny Everett
51:51
video show to other British things on PBS on public
51:56
television. But it really was the songs, the
51:59
places that the clash would sing about Generation X streets and
52:02
the Jam a bomb on Wardo Street or, you know, the Kinks Waterloo
52:06
sense. It's when I first got over to to
52:08
England and everything felt like a song and a place and all these
52:12
local spots. I thought the crown that Nick
52:14
Jones sings about in the clash day three was like a particular
52:17
bar. It's like, I found the crown, Oh
52:19
my God from that song, and then I realized there's a ton of
52:23
crowns in. Every Pope in England is called
52:25
the crown. Yeah, you know, it's like a
52:26
Blarney Stone. So I would say film wise, you
52:32
know, I like some of the, I guess the Rock films, the kids
52:36
are right. The film on The Who, Gregory's
52:38
girl. I think there's been, obviously
52:40
there's a lot, but with Neil and I has been a favorite of mine
52:44
from the tour buses. That is so a certain kind of
52:48
British thing. Seeing Quadrophenia, the film,
52:51
which I like better than the record, actually.
52:53
I just like that, even though Sting is in there for a second,
52:56
but it just seemed brightened and the fights and the mods and
53:00
the rockers learning about that culture, seeing Rude Boy by the
53:03
Clash and hearing how people spoke.
53:05
And you know, there wasn't. I guess I was more involved in
53:08
American films and eventually for foreign films, more into
53:12
French and Italian films like Umberto D and Fellini, like
53:16
Knights of Kaberia. God, I don't have to swing back
53:19
to this. My brain is just freezing on on
53:21
really good, you know, because there's.
53:23
A lot of great there's a. Lot of great, no?
53:25
There's a lot of good British film, I'm sure.
53:27
Things that come to my mind get caught.
53:29
Or it was, it was filmed near me where I am.
53:32
Yeah, along Good Friday. Small acts that show that was on
53:35
recently about Notting Hill in the 70s.
53:38
That was a good series. Yeah, there was a film called
53:42
Babylon I saw recently, an older film about reggae and and
53:45
Jamaican community in in in London.
53:48
So bringing it back to your your latest record, Saturn, beautiful
53:52
world, what kind of influences were you watching, reading,
53:55
listening to at the time when you were recording that, if any?
53:59
You know, it's always some of your favorite bands, but it's
54:01
nice you desensitized to hearing those records over and over
54:03
again. But the idea that The Clash, we
54:06
had just learned London Calling the whole album for a charity
54:09
thing, and the fact that they made that record and then a year
54:11
later this is a double record. That's amazing.
54:14
A year later, do a triple record.
54:15
One year I was like, all right, we got up this, Sunset Kids was
54:19
out. We did it with Lucinda Williams.
54:20
We had a lot of songs we wrote. How can we make this better?
54:23
You know, how can we take this to another level?
54:26
And I just kept writing, but I guess I'd be listening to a lot
54:30
of old mellow stuff that I, you know, Neil Young Harvest and Tom
54:35
Petty wildflowers stuff from the past.
54:38
And then, you know, still thinking about things like
54:41
Sandinista and the Jam and and then some energy of some new
54:45
groups like the Fontaine's DC out of Dublin.
54:48
They just had an angst to it. And going back to some of the
54:51
pop stuff that I loved, you know, Blondie and Cheap Trick
54:54
and the Raspberries and and it'd be just a mix of Stooges and the
54:59
Stones. But really things just come in a
55:02
free form way. I mean, I listen to I always try
55:04
to take in new stuff. I don't always find new stuff
55:07
that I love, but I like some Saint Vincent and I like this
55:11
band of clock works from over in UK, you know, just just things
55:15
coming in. But I guess you just kind of
55:17
walk into a room and you spit something out on a guitar and
55:20
start banging on singing. It's a free form kind of
55:22
expression. And then try to figure out
55:24
what's really going on, like it's a Rorschach test.
55:27
Go back and what am I saying here?
55:29
Sometimes we sit down and say, you know, let's write something.
55:32
Me and Derek wrote this song Dance with the system.
55:34
Like let's let's kind of go for some like Stooges 1971 kind of
55:40
groove, sleazy kind of thing. Stooges, Stones, what New York,
55:45
you know, and, and then some of it just, I don't know, you know,
55:48
sometimes things that I wouldn't expect like big audio dynamite,
55:52
Mick Jones and the Clash side band, like some things just kind
55:55
of stick with me. But then I like a lot of new
55:57
artists, you know, that are doing stuff like Jason Isbell
55:59
and I really like that. You know what he's been doing.
56:02
I I just sent the songs and science students kind of come
56:05
out and you're not aware of the influences, you know, I guess
56:08
some songs like Sinner, which is different on the record maybe.
56:12
I've been listening to a lot of Nick Cave in the Bad Seats when
56:15
I wrote that one with Derek. And sometimes riding alone, I
56:18
have a set kind of head. I get into a a very good trance
56:22
of a place and, and just go and get lost and just write and
56:26
write and listen back later and see what songs are sticking.
56:31
And then sometimes I Co write with Derek or with Rob, my piano
56:35
player in this record where they're kind of leading the
56:38
thing musically and they're playing the instrument and I'm
56:40
freer because I'm not boxed into my hands thinking about each
56:43
chord change melodically. I find myself freer to just go
56:48
into the places and then be like, wow, really?
56:50
You were just playing two chords the whole time and I was able to
56:54
hit all these different melodies that I wouldn't have hit.
56:56
So, you know, sometimes we'll just guide each other.
56:59
We work off a beat. My guitar player Derek, who
57:02
produced the record, will have a drum beat on a beatbox and bring
57:05
it over and that beat will give us some kind of mojo or give me
57:09
some kind of attitude like Backstabbers.
57:13
I think we were thinking about the Velvet Underground
57:15
Rock'n'roll, the song Rock'n'roll, and then we had
57:17
this beat and that. It just, it's nice.
57:20
It's a real mix. I think that's what makes every
57:21
artist when they pull together is a a bunch of different
57:25
influences thrown it to a pot like you're making a soup or
57:28
something and how you mix up the ingredients and spit it out is
57:31
how that's going to be your specialty.
57:35
You know if or it's crap. You.
57:38
Make everybody sick and you're poison the whole world.
57:41
You recorded that on a thing and it was a mixture of the East and
57:45
West Coast. And does the geography affect
57:48
your writing, your music? Like the influences of the city
57:51
that. You're in.
57:52
Well, that was Sunset Kids. Half was done in LA, Lucinda
57:55
Williams. The other half was done in in
57:57
New York with Lucinda Williams and her husband, Tom Overby.
58:00
So, you know, I always have New York in the even if I go to LA,
58:03
you can't take the city out of the kid.
58:04
I don't know what the expression is, but this record was done
58:07
during lockdown. So it's not a COVID like
58:10
handbook rah, rah, rah. But it's also, you couldn't have
58:14
made a record sitting in this apartment without, you know,
58:17
being locked in alone and nobody on the streets except fire
58:22
engines and ambulances and people cheering with pots and
58:26
pans for healthcare workers and then people rioting, protesting,
58:31
looting, you know, like it. It definitely seeped into the
58:34
records content in some ways, but it's not the guidebook
58:38
souvenir COVID pandemo, you know, and that's serious stuff.
58:43
I don't mean to be funny, but it's just like, you know, it's
58:45
enough of that. But in some ways it's just part
58:48
of our, you know, the atmosphere.
58:51
A few songs were written a good amount, half of them probably
58:54
before the pandemic, so we just couldn't finish the record.
58:58
It was supposed to be out a year sooner, so the some of the
59:00
singles came out sooner. But I've always loved the mellow
59:03
stuff with my favorite bands and the loud stuff.
59:05
And as a writer and singer, I love to do acoustic ballads and,
59:08
and go break it down or with the piano.
59:11
And then I love to move my body and have something physical
59:13
that, you know, I can really sweat it out to.
59:16
And on this record, I decided to, you know, serve up both
59:19
sides of that, you know, the the roots rock and the radicals, as
59:24
we call it. So it became a double record and
59:26
one side's more of that Americana thing and the other
59:28
side's more like Saturday night in the City with the vibrator in
59:31
your pocket or something. I don't care, Jesse, I've got a
59:36
few hypothetical questions for you, just kind of few quick fire
59:39
ones to finish this off. Hypothetically, you're doing a
59:42
soundtrack for a movie. Who would you have as director
59:44
and star, living or dead? Oh wow, Living or Dead?
59:48
Director and star doing a soundtrack for a film.
59:52
John Cassavetes and Jenna Rollins starring it.
59:55
Yeah. Cool dream team and in a film
59:58
about your life, what songs would be on the soundtrack?
1:00:02
Jim Croce. Bad bad.
1:00:03
Leroy Brown. The Batman theme.
1:00:05
I just want to have something do.
1:00:06
The Ramones. She knows A punk rocker.
1:00:09
You know, I'm so bored with the USA.
1:00:12
Been caught stealing Jane's addiction.
1:00:14
Operator. Jim Croce.
1:00:16
Memphis. Chuck Berry.
1:00:18
You never can tell. Chuck Berry.
1:00:20
Someone saved my life tonight. Elton John Probably Neil Young.
1:00:24
Heart of gold. The change is going to come.
1:00:26
Sam Cooke. Here comes a regular.
1:00:29
The Replacements. Cool, and who plays you Livin?
1:00:33
Oh, I don't know. God.
1:00:36
Mike Imperioli. Oh, great choice.
1:00:42
And if you could be in a film like John Moosh's Coffee and
1:00:45
Cigarettes, which is like broken up to the number of short
1:00:48
stories, who would you like to act with in your segment, Steve?
1:00:52
Coogan. Really.
1:00:53
Coogan. Yeah, yeah, he's versatile.
1:00:59
OK. What are your all time top five
1:01:01
favorite films, Jesse? Chinatown Taxi driver.
1:01:05
Casablanca Broadway. Danny Rose.
1:01:09
Oh boy, this is tough. There's too many of them trying
1:01:11
to commit to this. Look around my room here.
1:01:15
Oh my God. Lenny by Bob Fosse.
1:01:17
Cool. So like final question, Jesse,
1:01:20
sub question to what we've just talked about, say your favorite
1:01:23
film. I will just pick one of those.
1:01:26
Taxi Driver if you could choose one of your songs to play as the
1:01:29
credits roll, which will be all. Right for taxi Driver.
1:01:33
Wow, that's an interesting one. God's lonely people, I guess.
1:01:36
Well, I don't know. Let me see.
1:01:38
I got to dig in there. What would be fine art of self
1:01:41
destruction? The song.
1:01:42
Excellent. OK, great.
1:01:44
Thank you, Jesse. You've been a real sport
1:01:46
answering those. All right.
1:01:48
Thank you for this. I really appreciate it.
1:01:50
And yeah, we'll talk again soon, I hope.
1:01:53
OK. Yeah, that's absolutely great.
1:01:55
Jesse, I really appreciate you coming on.
1:01:57
Good luck with the show and the new record, the two.
1:02:00
It's been a pleasure talking to you.
1:02:02
Same here man, great time. Thank you.
1:02:11
So there you have it. Fan of all the right movies,
1:02:14
Jesse Mallon. Great conversation, a great guy.
1:02:16
Check out Jesse's new record, Saturn.
1:02:18
Beautiful World out now physical and streaming.
1:02:21
Jessie is back on tour at the end of October, early November.
1:02:25
So if you're one of our listeners in Europe, Sweden,
1:02:27
Netherlands, Germany, France and Belgium, go check out Jessie
1:02:30
Live. Speaking from experience, it
1:02:32
really is one of the best live performances you'll see.
1:02:34
As for us, our latest podcast on classic and hit films is on
1:02:37
Poltergeist. That came out last week and is
1:02:39
available everywhere, as are our most recent 20 episodes.
1:02:43
The rest along with a load of exclusive shows are available
1:02:46
only on Patreon. So go to patreon.com/all the
1:02:49
right movies to support us and get access to hours and hours of
1:02:53
great content. Coming up for our Patreon
1:02:55
supporters at the end of October is our conversation on 2 Jack
1:02:58
Nicholson Classics, Chinatown and Cookie's Nest on General
1:03:01
release. The next podcast is our Take 30
1:03:04
show where we talk about Tom Hanks and Big that's available
1:03:06
from Friday the 29th of October. Then on our classic podcast the
1:03:10
week after John, Matt and Pi are in 50s LA to bring you the
1:03:14
behind the scenes story of LA Confidential coming out your
1:03:16
thick and fast with loads of five star content.
1:03:19
In the meantime, check out our social media for great daily
1:03:22
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Join our Facebook group, follow us on TikTok, subscribe to our
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We've got loads more coming on YouTube in the future as well,
1:03:36
so stay tuned. We will be back on ATR meets
1:03:39
next month with another special guest.
1:03:41
Hope we'll keep you in suspense and for me by the time thanks
1:03:44
for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed my
1:03:46
conversation with Jessie. We'll see you soon.