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The Wedge Camper Revolution · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Orland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady. I'm with my co host here, Matt Schwartz,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about wedge campers. We're going
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: to talk about why you should consider a wedge camper,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and we've got some experts with us here today. We've
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: got Spencer Houser and we've also got Peter Williams and
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: these folks they build the Super Pacific wedge Campers. This
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: podcast is not about their product in particular, but since
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: they're experts on the subject, it's going to give us
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a great opportunity to kind of riff on why you
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: should consider a wedge camper, things to look for in
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a wedge camper, things to avoid maybe that I've experienced
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: in my own testing or Matt's experience in his own testing,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and also some of the new technologies that we're seeing
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: coming out related to wedge campers that are making them
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: more and more of a suitable consideration set for people
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: when they buy a camper. So thanks guys for being
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: on the podcast today.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks very much, and.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: A special thanks to Black Series Camper for supporting this
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: week's podcast. If you want to get out of the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: camping sites to follow freedom and nature. Black Series Camper
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: can show you the way from travel trailers to toy haulers.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Black Series has options as short as twelve feet or
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: as long as twenty two feet. A lineup ready for
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: any need and any situation. Get yourself and your family
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: out to enjoy nature in comfort and style. See Black
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Series in person at the overline Expo shows where you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: can meet with their team and explore their different models
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: on display in person. Please visit Black Series homepage at
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: black Series dot Net. The first thing that I think
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: we should talk about is the benefit of the wedge camper. Historically,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: you would see something like a Winnebago, or you'd see
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: a Westfoglia van and it has this pop top style camper.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Those were the first times we saw that coming into play.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: And then, of course we saw roof tents for a
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: long time, and then we saw wedge style roof tents.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And then we would see of course people with up
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: trucks with fiberglass shells or with aluminum shells on top
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: of their truck. We now see this kind of amalgamation
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: of those technologies and solutions coming into what we now
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: call in the industry a wedge camper, and there are
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: different kinds. There are some that like Adventure Trailers at
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Overland makes some that go straight up. There's other companies
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: that make some that come up at an angle, and
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: they all have their advantages as well. I particularly like
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the one that comes up at an angle because you
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: can put the nose of the vehicle into the wind
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and you get a much quieter place to sleep. But
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: then if you need maximum headroom, you may want one
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that goes up, or even one that swings out all
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the way over the back if you've got a bunch
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: of people that you're trying to pack into a topper.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: So plus, that wedge makes a really sweet dirt bike
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: jump if you.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Really I like that. I didn't even consider that what
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I have been doing wrong take the moto Gooozy off
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: the roof of my camper, now, you know, I have
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to admit, Like yesterday I was driving through Prescott and
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: there was one of those trailers that they used to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: like back off a D nine cat or whatever. The
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: ramp was down. I was on the motogoozy like I think,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I think every single knucklehead, like myself looks at that
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and thinks I should jump that. I should totally like.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Totally, and if there was a flaming ring of fires,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: you wouldn't stop.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So there you go, wedge camper. It's the
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: reason to buy it is because it becomes part of
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: your jumping routine.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, totally like el endorsed.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I like that a lot. And when we think about
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: some of the great strengths of those types of campers
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: is it really comes down to reduce weight. One of
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the difficulties, especially when you're looking at a smaller truck
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: like a tacoma or a half ton pickup, one of
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: the biggest challenges is keeping these trucks at their payload.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: For example, what does your camper typically come in at
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: for weight?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: They're roughly three point fifty to three seventy Yeah, so.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: That's incredibly light, Whereas like a typical raising roof camper
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that slides into the back of a pickup, you're lucky
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: if you get in at eleven hundred to fifteen hundred pounds,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and that's oftentimes the full payload that those trucks will have. Now, Matt,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: your truck is a little different. So what led you
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: to decide on a three quarter ton ram to go
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: with a wedge style camper, even though you've got the
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: payload for another camper.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: I think you kind of hit the nail on the
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: head when you talked about payload. You know, just because
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: you have a lot of payload, or don't have a
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: lot of payload, you don't want to use all of it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: You know, like if your infrastructure maxes you out, then
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: what happens when you start putting passengers and water and
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: food and camping gear in.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Well, like those nice bumpers you've got on your truck, Well.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Those adds some significant weight.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: But you know, the reality is, even with a full
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: sized truck, you know, our payloads something in the neighborhood
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: of twenty three hundred pounds, and you can eat that
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: up pretty quickly when you start bolting stuff on, you know,
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: a wedge camper that weighs three hundred and seventy pounds.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: That's kind of the sweet spot for us. I don't
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: want to like reduce the capability of my truck by
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: putting something on it. I want to enhance the capability.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: And so I think, like in this case, that's what
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: the wedge camper does. It's going to give us added
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: functionality without taking away from what the truck can do.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: And especially since we hold the airstream. Being able to
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: separate and have that secure storage and a sleeping place,
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's like everything we want to be able
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: to do with our vehicle well, and I.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Think your use case is such a great example of that.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: You've got a three quarter ton truck that does have
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: good payload, but you're towing an airstream. What's the tongue
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: weight of the airstream? Do you remember? I think the
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: ton weight is around five hundred pounds. Yeah, so let's
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: say it's in the five to seven hundred pound range.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Once you load it up with some gear, that goes
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: against your payload because that's tongue weight, right. You take
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: out weigh five to seven hundred pounds, you add three
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds, you add some gear, You add
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: some bumpers or one hundred pounds of bumpers, and then you
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: add a couple adults and your puppy dog, and next
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: thing you know, you're really even on a three quarter
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: ton truck, you're getting close to those payload numbers we
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: often remember too that the performance of a vehicle is
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: very much a reflection of its weight. So there's a
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: reason why a sand rail performs as well as it
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: does in the dunes, even as too will drive because
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: they're incredibly light and powerful, so their performance to weight
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: ratio is very high. So just because we have the payload,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we may want certain performance characteristics of the vehicle. We
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: may want it to handle a certain way, or we
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: may do a lot of deep mud or sand or snow,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: when the total weight of the vehicle compared to the
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: contact patch of the tire is a really critical consideration.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: So that's where in my mind I see that these
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: toppers are oftentimes exactly what somebody needs. The other thing
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: that I've noticed is because it's not a slide in camper,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you get rid of all of this other material. So
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: because it's being bolted to the top of the bed,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: you now don't have all of that extra structure that
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: would go in where the wheel wells are. You gain
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a lot more space on the inside too. Absolutely, sometimes
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: you can a sliding camper. You can access those little
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: cubbies and things like that through little doors, but gets
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: super dusty or it's not easy to get access to
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it adds in a lot of additional weight
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: while you're losing space efficiency. So that's another real benefit
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: of these wedge campers is that you have a very
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: space efficient interior. You get the whole bed, Yeah, exactly,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: And what have you guys done to maximize the available
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: interior space. It's kind of a loaded question because we
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: found in other campers that there they don't always optimize
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: those interior spaces.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: Right now, we had to kind of find the magic
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: spot between a straight walled camper and something with a
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: really radical side angle.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Sure right.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: We actually made our tent itself a little bit wider
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: than a lot of the other tents that around the market,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: so that we could have some of the benefits of
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: a pure straight walled camper. It still retains some of
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: the characteristics and the aerodynamics, sure, the airflow. Yeah, of
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: trying to keep it close to that cab angle. So
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: that was one of the things that we did.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we definitely find that the straight up and down ones,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: they'll end up with a lot more pin striping. You
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: also have that rental resistance of the camper when it
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: goes up by where the cab is, so you get
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: quite a bit of impact to your airflow, which that's
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: one of the benefits of the wedge campers is you're
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: typically not having a big impact to arrow, usually much
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: less than you would with a roof tent. You really
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: find that you have good arrow out of a wedge camper,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: but you don't want those sides to be too much
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: of an angle because then when you're sitting inside, like
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: on a bench exactly, then you're leaning forward. You can't
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: sit up right when you're on a built out interior. Yeah,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: that's exactly it. And so we try to maximize the
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: width of the camper right to the edge of the
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: bed rail, but then try to find that magic spot
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: in the height gives you some lean angle, but not
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: a TREMENDOUSMNT so you're bending over. And what are you
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: guys finding when people are purchasing these these campers. Are
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: they looking to just have them be a replacement for
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: a shell that they can camp in, or are they
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: looking to do full interior buildouts.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: It's a real mix bag.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: There's pretty much full spectrum of Some of our folks
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: get in there and want to do a big custom
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: build out, kind of fermanent set up. So it's ready
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: to go camping every day.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: For me. One of the huge advantages of this.
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: Style of camper is that it leaves your truckbed as
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: a truckbed, and so essentially with our product in particular,
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: you have a commercial grade canopy on your truckbed. So
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: during the work week, you're set and you can do
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: whatever you need for your daily driver. But then the
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: transition to camping, you know, is really quick. The way
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: that we're set up in my house is we just
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: have all our gear and totes, we load up, go
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: to the grocery store, and we're out. You know that
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: versatility is a huge advantage.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: That's interesting you kind of refer to it as this
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: commercial grade topp or so are there load bars on
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the top? Like could you put your ladder for the tradesmen?
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing people use this for tradesmen or using
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: it during the week to go to the job site
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: and they pull their stuff out and they and they
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: go camping. Is it is it designed to take some
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: load on the roof as well?
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it'll carry closed. The load transfer is just metal
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: to metal down. Yeah, so sure carry quite a bit
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: of weight closed. And do you guys have available cross
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: bars as well. The way we design it is to
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: so that it can be accessorized with anything you want.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: You've got it, like a rail or a channel.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: So there's t slot on the top and Yakima has
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: a setup you can throw on there.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you just have a lot of options.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: And it kind of goes beyond just things that are
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: specifically designed for vehicles. This is one of the things
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: that appealed about it to me so much from a
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: DIY standpoint is those rails, like you can use eighty twenty,
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: you know, like you can get pretty creative with other
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: materials and ways of attaching things. And some of the users,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: some of the people that own it have done that, right,
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: I mean people have gotten pretty.
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's super fun to see what people do. Yeah,
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: there's somever folks out there doing some cool stuff.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: And that was we talked earlier about maximizing the interior space.
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: That was a big kind of design philosophy as we
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: worked through it and looking at everybody has a different
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: use case. Sure, we tried to build a framework that
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: you could then go in and really customize and optimize
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: to your needs, you know, and max size that space
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: because's quite a bit of space if you're thoughtful in
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: how you.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Use it, Yeah, for sure. And Matt, for you, when
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you started looking on the market, what were the things
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that you were hoping the wedge camper would accomplish. What
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: were some of the considerations that you had before you,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: you know, made this investment to put it on top
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: of your truck.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think two of the biggest thing for
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: me why the wedge camper is like the right choice
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: for our scenario. Before we talked about like I never
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: wanted to take away capability from the truck with adding something.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: I want everything I add to add capability to the truck,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: and so the Wedge camper accomplished that in terms of
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: secure storage. Right, So we went from an open bed,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: which obviously there's like tono covers and you know, there's
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: dedicated canopies that don't have tents, Like sure, those are
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: all options, but the switchback gives me that secure storage.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: So now all of a sudden, living out of the airstream,
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: which is surprisingly limited on space given how comfortable it
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: is and roomy and on the interior, but like we
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: end up using our shower for storage. So now all
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: of a sudden, all of the paragliders and you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: tools and whatever that's lived in there can go in
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: the back of the truck and I can lock it
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: in there and I have confidence that it's secure. That's huge,
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Like that opens up a whole lot of usable space
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: inside the trailer. That was one thing I was looking at,
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: and that could have been independent of the switchback. You know,
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: any wedge camper is going to give you that, any
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: canopy is going to give you that. So I think
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: that's huge. I also wanted to simplify the camp set
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: up right, and this is where the wedge tent is awesome.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I don't really.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: I'm not a huge fan of rooftup tents in general,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: but I think the one exception to that is the
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: wedge tent because it is very quick. There's two latches,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: you push it up, the gas thruts do the work,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: and then it's set up. You don't have to insert
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: all these rods to hold out portions of the fly.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: And that's the thing. Like I've camped in a lot
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: of roof tents that are actually more labor intensive and
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: more difficult to set up than ground tents.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Way more exactly and putting them away is even worse.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Right, and you're having to climb around the truck like
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: a rock climber. And you know that doesn't work for everyone,
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: Like some people are just not physically capable of that
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: or tall enough, right, and so you know that kind
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: of excludes a certain segment of the market. So I see,
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: when it comes to the rooft up tent, the wedge
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I think adds it adds speed, it makes things simpler.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always been my choice. Yeah, or even those
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: like hybrid wedges where they still go up like a wedge,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: but it's got some mechanism that gives a little bit
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: more foot box space.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Sure those work out really really well. How does the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: mechanism work in your camper? How does it lift?
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: So it's just a pair of gas struts that.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Are they inside the tent or the outside the tent?
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: They're outside the tent, but they're interior to the extrusion. Sure,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: so when it's closed, there's no gas struts on the
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: outside are exposed and it's just a big, heavy duty
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: machined hinge on the front end. Incidentally, our first design
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: was just as you described earlier, Scott, with kind of
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: a mechanism that would give a mechanism, yeah, would give
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: you that foot box. We played around with it and
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: kind of did some mock ups and models and stuff,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: and we were just a little worried about coming to
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: market with something with a mechanism like that. Sure that
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: if we messed it up, it failed right out of box.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Nobody's going to trust super Pacific. Sure, we decided to
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: go with just the single hinge where it does limit
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: your your foot box a little bit, but it's a super,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: super reliable mechanism.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: What I've noticed with that is because you have that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: continuous engagement along the leading edge of the camper, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: even in high winds, even sideloaded winds, you don't get
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of movement of that top. Whereas the scissor mechanisms,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: because they're relying under they're relying on tension on the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: fabric and then upward force of the struts, they can
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: still move around quite a bit, and even when you're
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: trying to put them down, it can actually get off
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: access enough that they can start to pinch material or
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: even cut material. I had a rough tent that I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: was testing that was in that configuration, and the wind
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: was just enough that when it came down, it actually
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: scissor cut a fabric between the mechanism. They've since redesigned
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the structure so well based on feedback, which is why
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: we're out there banging on these things all the time,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: so we can give people that kind of feedback. The
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: other thing that I've noticed that you'll see done is
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: that they'll do a good job. And I'm not sure
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: how yours. I've not even seen the inside of your
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: camper yet, but a lot of them they'll use some
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: kind of felting or they'll use some kind of carpet
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: material on the walls and on the ceiling to manage condensation.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: How do you guys manage condensation in the tent?
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: We designed in a bunch of passive ventilation so that
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: the air can just circulate. Sure, we're in the Pacific Northwest,
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: so we really designed it with like wet camping in the.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Sure hear lots of humidity, Yeah.
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: Humidity and rainy long winters, so sure we've kind of
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: imagined ourselves out there in a rainy winter camp. We
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: wanted to be able to have vents open but sheltered
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: from rain, so even even if you're socked in you
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: can still get some air circulating, and it's been really
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: effective for managing condensation. We've gotten a lot of feedback
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: from customers that it's pretty much not been an issue.
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: Of course, there's sometimes there's so much ambient moisture that
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: it just clings to stuff.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, nothing's going to work for you. You
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: have a max air fan or whatever in there, it's
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: not going to do any.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Good, right, Yeah, it's more about kind of managing where
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: that condensation goes.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the path out.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if it's ninety eight percent relative humidity, it's humid
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: everywhere exactly. Yeah, you can't get rid of it basically underwater. Yeah.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Well, and another thing that I really like about that,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the different style, the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: ones that will flip out all the way up in
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: over the back, you end up with an awning. So
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that's a real advantage. You end up with an enormous
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: amount of interior space. But then you have all tent materials,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: so they can be in the ones that I've slept in,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: they can be louder. They aren't as well insulated, so
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: in colder environments they're more difficult to heat. Sure, because
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: you have so much tent material, you also have the
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: chance of the tent material. There's a lot more tent
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: material to potentially fail or need repair, but you do
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: end up with an enormous amount of interior space. A
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: lot of them will even have the capability of having
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: like a small cot or something like that suspends in
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the part over the bed, So that's one style. The
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: other style that we've seen, or the kinds that go
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: straight up so it's like you'd see on a four
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: wheel camper, sliding camper, and they even have their own
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: model now that kind of bolts to the top of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the bed and it goes straight up. Those you end
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: up when you've got the bed kind of tucked all
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the way out of the way or the sleeping surface
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: tucked all the way out of the way. You end
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: up with a lot more standing space so you can
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: fit more people, Like if you wanted to have a party,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: you got a lot more space in there or kind
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of moving around in there. So I think that that's
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: an advantage. But I think that the reason why we
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: see most of them being wedge campers is because of
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the durability of the structure. The structure ends up being
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: very durable and why I like wedge style roof tents
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: is the fact that you can point the vehicle into
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the wind. Like right now we're in we're in Flagstaff
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: at the Overland Expo, and it is what you guys say,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: it was like Armageddon or like you.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Mad Max. It's like Mad Max out there.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gnarly. I mean there's all kinds of accouterment
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: like flying through the air and signs and tents and everything.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's bad.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: There's sold out of sand bags over the course yesterday.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I believe it.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: The windy app was showing the peak gusts up into
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: the low fifties.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Gale force winds and we can see that the impact
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: on anything that has a broad surface. We're in a
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Black series trailer that's well insulated and it's behind the
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: ten it's got some other things that are blocking the wind.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: So it's actually very quiet in here. But when you're
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: dealing with bad weather, so when you have a roof
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that's at an angle, you can shed snow and snow
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: load snow weight. You have much less tent surface area
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: that you have to deal with losing your interior heat
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: if you're heating the interior of the camper. And then
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: for me, the thing that's most important is being able
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to point it into the wind. I remember I was
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: in Sanavaristo, which is a very remote bay in Baja,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and I had a roof tent that was a wedge
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: style and I could point it into the wind. And
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: there was another camper nearby with another style of roof tent,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a traditional lambshell style, and they broke a bunch of
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: their bent and broke a bunch of their holes, you know,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: And it was a very high quality tent. It was
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: just so bad. The wind was so bad that they
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: basically had to try to fold up the tent the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: best they could and sleep inside. I mean, I sleep
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: like a log anyways. But I never woke up like
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: it was just not an issue. It is that much better.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Oh no, Yeah, we are right now where we are
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: in our booth. Both our trucks are pointed into the wind,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: our tents are hardly moving, our flags are breaking.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah right.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: And the and the poor guys at outdoor by four
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: their whole canopy collapsed. Oh no, but we're just sitting
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: there and customers are coming up and going. It's not
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: even really flapping or anything that's like yeah, because it's
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: waiting ran into the wind.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: It's almost the kind of whether you want to demo
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: totally how successful the product is. I mean, and like
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: you walk around the event and you can see what's
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: working and what's not working.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: When you guys look at where the market is right now,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: because there are so many different options, I mean, go
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Fast makes a great product, and at Overland makes a product,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: great product. You guys make a great product, al you
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: ca there's a bunch of them on the market. What
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: are you seeing as far as innovation or where do
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: you think that there are opportunities to continue to move
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: wedge campers forward? What do you think is going to
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: be the next evolution of Without giving away your own
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: trade secrets, but what do you think are what do
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you think a little bit about are some need? Are
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: some needs that still exists? Because I've got some thoughts
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that come to mind for me, But I'm curious what
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: you guys see for needs that still exist in the markets.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Is done with their hard sighted pop up? Yeah that's
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: super cool. Yeah, the kind of origami if you're familiar
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: with them or not.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but that I red Tails doing that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Redtail's doing that as well. Ye, I'm surprised that they
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: haven't come out with a wedge style truck camper because
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: they've got so much technology and innovation, that design and
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: engineering that they put into making a roof tent. It
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: seems like it's a great It would be expensive, not
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: fair value, but it's just the nature of carbon fiber
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and everything is expensive. It would be a compelling product manager, Yeah,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: it would be really it would be really interesting. Some
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of the things that I think that there are opportunities
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: around is starting to integrate more and more modularity, like
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: lightweight buildouts so that way, you know, you can hang
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: different structures from the side for storage, you can kind
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: of like what Goose gear does. But finding a way
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to do that super lightweight really simple. You talk about
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: how you move things in and out of your truck,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: having it where it's really easy to do that. So
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: it's not because I think that the permanent build out.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe it works for some people or maybe it's what
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: they think they need in there, but I don't know
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that the permanent buildout is actually the right solution.
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: For it depends a lot on time of life, you
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: know what I mean, and just what your circumstances are.
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: But if the truck you take out for adventures is
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: also your daily driver, yeah, the permanent build out's tough.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I just went. My parents were in town in Portland.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: My dad loves the air Museum and McMinnville, so we
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: went and looked. I got super inspired. I'm already very
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: familiar with airplanes, right, but sure, just looking at all
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: these jets and things and how lightweight gauge material that
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: they're using compared to what we're building our stuff out of. Now,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: our stuff is bulletproof, right, it's just burly. But it
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: got me thinking about you know, truck bodies are made
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: out of very very thin material. Why couldn't we like
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: go like really really lightweight. Sure with what we do,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: but you're going to have to also get a customer
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: that's used to adore that you can kind of push
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: and dimple just like you came to the side of
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: your truck, right, And I think so, like you're saying,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: with this kind of super lightweight and modular kind of thing.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in two
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: thousand and six with the goal of providing independent equipment
• 21:10
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• 21:16
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• 21:19
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• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I hear you.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: That's where I think that there's a lot of opportunity
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: is that they're already light. If you look at a Tacoma,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I mean like you can have a couple buddies in
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: a sandwich and for the payload that they've got, you know, so,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you know, so it just seems like that there's such
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to go to look after what are the
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: old how light could you make a wedge style camper?
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: And if they start getting into that same weight range
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of like an air topper or any of the standard
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: fiberglass toppers, you know, where you start looking at two
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: hundred pounds, two hundred and twenty pounds. I think that
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that would be really impressive. Oh yeah, yeah, And I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: also thought that, you know, like opportunities for how do
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: we integrate the awning into the structure of it, so
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: you're not bolting an awning onto the side of it. Sure,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: you're taking advantage of some of the structure that's already there.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: That also seems to make a lot of sense to me.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: How do you integrate technology too? Right now, we have
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the Starlink satellite dish that's it's mounted on the top
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: of the Black series. But the people who start to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: think about how do we make it really easy for
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: people that want to work remote to mount these tools
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to do their job.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: With COVID, we were kind of this weird hybrid and
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: you know work startups hybrid You never stop working at home, right.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Appreciate, Well, that's the cool thing about being a startup
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: or running your own business. You get to pick whatever
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: fourteen hours a day you want to work a minimum
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: fourteen hour Yeah, and you can do it anyway, So yeah,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: total control over that fourteen hours.
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but we've got a lot of customers kind of
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: talk about that because of COVID now they're used to
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: working remotely, you know, and having success being way off
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: in the woods and just typing away. Pete's got a
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: lot of thoughts and ideas around you know what we
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: could do for that.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's just so many cool opportunities to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: try to help these remote workers achieve their goals totally.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: And I think that the manufacturers that start to pay
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: attention to that and really integrate those solutions, I think
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: is a very cool idea. And as you guys have
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: done with making a very lightweight camper, there's been enough
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: WEDG style campers out there that you were like, ah,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that works well, or this doesn't work so well, or
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: you see feedback from bloggers or like you guys mentioned,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: you know, reading the Overland Journal article on wedge campers,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you're you're able to really like that there are there
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: are things that maybe people thought would work and they
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: don't work, sure, and then we can begin to refine
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the product. How about you, Matt, what have you seen
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: in the work that you've done around wedge campers where
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, it would be really cool
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: if it did this or that.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a good question.
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: I think a launching pad for your lighting exactly. Yeah, yeah,
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: totally definitely.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: We could do a roof mounted winch to pull us
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: up into the air. One person drives the truck, the
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: other hooks into. Honestly, I don't have any big ideas,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: which is probably why I'm not a person designing these things.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: But I see some of the things that you guys
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: have done differently with your product that stood out to me,
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: and you know, it kind of comes back to what
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: you were just talking about, you know, being able to
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: integrate things and make these work for the user. However
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: they need the t slots all around. It's just it's
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: so simple to start there and let the user figure
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: out what they want to do with it. It leaves
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: the door open for that the threaded bosses on the inside,
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: you know, for I'm sure accessories that will see down
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: the road. So that kind of thing. I think thinking
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: in that mindset of like, how can we present infrastructure
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: that can easily be customized because it's so hard to
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: say that any one person wants or needs one specific thing.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: You know, if you kind of leave the door open
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: to the individual, people can innovate on their own.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: One thing that's kind of very different, but in the
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: same space that I've seen recently, is there's this inflatable
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: bed canopy that you can get.
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: Have you guys seen this? Yes, I think it's like
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: rf wel did. It's kind of like the technology of
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: a paddleboard. I don't know what the waight is. Graham
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: just wrote it up and it pops up.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: We inflate it.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean that kind of thing is cool.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: So that's a little different now. I wish I had
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: some better ideas around that. I'm just psyched to see,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: you know. I think what you were talking about the
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: lightweight a modular kind of interior because I don't want
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: to build out the bed with like a full camping setup,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: but a little more infrastructure might be beneficial at times.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Even paying attention to people's needs around side windows, for example,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: like the windows that are in this black series. I
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: think they're perfect for eighty percent of users, but they
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: don't survive well with brush scrapes in that kuntry. Yeah,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: so if you were to look at the windows that
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: are in an earth Roamer, and there's other big campers
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: that use them as well. They're glass, and they are
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: incredibly strong tempered. They've got all the integration of the
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: shades and privacy and all that other stuff, and then
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the way that they fit flush. I mean, they just
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: end up being incredibly robust in those conditions where we
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: end up with a lot of brush scrapes and stuff
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: like that. Did you end up going with windows side
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: windows on your camper, Matt?
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: There is.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: So there's two windows, but they're on the front, so
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: at the back of the cabs. Oh sure, so you
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: can see in from the cab of the truck. And
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: then there's a rear window that makes you can see
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: in from the back.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: There, so you can see the airstream behind you make sure.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: It's still there. Yeah.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: So one thing did come to mind for and it's
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: not and this is necessarily innovation, but it's kind of
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: like prepping the product right for customers. I think a
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: really cool feature that I'd like to see adopted more
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: widely is designing a camper that allows the customer to
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: integrate anything that we're to require. Routing wires anywhere. So
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: make it set up so that the customer doesn't have
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: to create any roof penetrations whatsoever, and can get.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: A wired any corner of the camper.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be really useful, for sure.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: We've thought about that a little bit. That's a challenge.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, you guys have gotten very close, I will say,
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: because like you have the wire chases like all throughout.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: It's ninety percent of what I just described.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Right, But that last ten percent, yeah, you know, trying
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: to figure out how to get it out of the tent,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: keep it sealed up.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Keep it water.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: That's why you guys are engineers and stuff.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think one of the biggest engineering challenges,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and you guys may chuckle at this, but I think
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest engineering challenges of the wedge camper
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: is the integration with the tailgate. How do you possibly
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: keep dust absolutely spot it is? How do you guys
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: deal with that?
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: We have we have an adjustable bottom gasket. Oh nice,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: for most of the modern trucks that have the big
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: wide for the super tailgates, you can adjust down into that.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: You've got a pretty good gasket as opposed to kind
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: of a wiper type of gas is a surface.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I don't find that the wiper ones work. There's so
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: much like kind of vacuum negatives. You know, back don't
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: know what you guys are engineers, but that term escapes
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: me at the moment. But you're driving, vacuum is a
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: good Yeah, it just it just because you're running down
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the trail and it's creating this vacuum at the back
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: of the vehicle and it's like totally just pulls the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: dust right in past that seal.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've got the we got that surface. But
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: there's this little area in the very corner where the
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: tailgate and the camper like the body of the camper
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: and the back door all meat.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is it is quite a yeah, it
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: is quite a challenge. And then the tailgate itself is
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: not sealed between the body sides because it doesn't have
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: to for their purposes. They're selling a pickup. You know,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: that gap is there, and it just like just can pump.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: What I always thought is like, why not create some
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: positive pressure in the camper because you want a fan
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: in there for ventilation anyways, So maybe there's a way
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: to run the fan in reverse.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Like freasable fabric for dust.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just has a little bit of a
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: some kind of a filter, a membrane, and you can
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: just pack some positive pressure ventilation into the camper so
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: that you're forcing dust out.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: I always has something like that.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: They do on their on their toppers. They have some
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: sort of it's like a positive air vent that creates
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: positive pressure, right.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I've seen that. The first thing that comes
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: to mind is if you're the first guy in line,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: that's awesome. But if you're the third guy in line
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: just driving through that constant dust cloud, aren't you just
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: filling your camper up with dust? And I've never had
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: a chance to test it, so there may be something.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: You know, you have to have some kind of a filter. Well,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: there's there is a layer of dead air that is
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: over the surface of things as air is coming over.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Sure, maybe maybe they've got it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: In the right spot. Yeah, yeah, because you also want
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the vent when you're sleeping up there. You want to
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: be able to you know, extract the air out of
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the camper. You know, for you're cooking inside or whatever,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: you can pull a little bit of air through the
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: windows keep you cool when you're sleeping but it seems
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: like reversing that and creating some positive pressure. But I've
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: never seen anybody do that right yet.
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: That's one of the challenges scuba tanks just fill a
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: bunch of balloons and pop them as you go, the
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: pop as.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: You jump in totally. Anytime I've ever used a wedge camper,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just always shocked by the amount of dust that
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: ends up in the back back. That is.
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: I think a big difference between a like a wedge
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: camper and a slide in is because you are ceiling
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: our campers to the top of the trust Sure rails.
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: So like, from the rails up, we're really confident that
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: we've got a tight product, but from the rails down
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: you're sort of on your own. And they're designed truck
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: beds for draining, yeah, I mean, they don't design them
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: to be tight against dustin wall.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. It's almost like you could have a
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: tailgate delete backdoor that you guys. I mean, it would
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: be so model specific. Then you start to get into
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a bunch of tooling and everything else.
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: But we have seen, like we've got some customers are
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: just like, you know, this is what I signed up for. Yeah, cool,
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: that and others are like going hard to try and
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: just lock it out and make that thing float if
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: it ever gets in the water. You know, yeah, sure,
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: it's really fun to see how people run that down
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: and how they seal up around their tailgates and find
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: a way to make it work, kind of throw all
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: the little gaps that are part of you know. Yeah,
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: people get into it.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they see, they sure do. Absolutely. What inspired you
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: guys to do this? I mean I think you were.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: You mentioned you had a machine shop and like now
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you're making cool campers, So like, how did you go
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: from from that to this? So?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had I had a machine shop and and
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I had a company that made do Katti motorcycle parts.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: That's about ten years. Yeah, that's cool, early teens. We
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: sold the brand and shut that down, and I went
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: off to do some other things. And then Pete came
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: to me and you take this, I'd say, you take
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: the story from here.
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: I mean, I guess the real genesis of this whole
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: thing is like, I've got a six year old son now,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: and he was three when we were first picked this
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: idea off. And we had a two thousand and five
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: forester and a dog and to get out for a
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: night in the woods. Was this herculean effort? Sure, my
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: partner I started looking at like, what's out there? What
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: would be a better kind of adventure vehicle to have
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: an adventurous family with? And we landed on a FOURD
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: or pickup is the right thing for us? Started looking
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: at sliding campers, all that stuff didn't quite fit into
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: our life. Started seeing these kind of wedge top of
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: the truck bed rail campers out there. Spencer and I
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: had worked together at a design consultancy in the past,
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: and we both just are pretty passionate about designing and
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: making stuff. So I went over to his place and
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: showed him kind of what I'd been looking at, kind
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: of what was on the market. At that point, I
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: was like, Man, let's build let's build campers this summer.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: Let's do a summer project. We'll make one for your one,
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: fifty one for my Tacoma.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Be easy.
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll just not So that led us into really
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: a deep dive on like what's out there, how are
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: people doing this?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: How would we do this? Cool?
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: We just got into it, you know, and then that
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: kind of led into like, you know what, maybe instead
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: of a summer project. We should actually look at this design,
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: this thing for manufacturing and think about what a business
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: around this thing might look because it looked like there
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: was an opportunity.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, there's so much opportunity. We just see him. We
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: see him everywhere now. I mean ten years ago, you
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: saw roof tents on every vehicle. Now when you walk
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: around overland, there's a lot of rough tents. I'm not
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: saying that there's not a lot of roof tents, but
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: you don't see as many clamshell style roof tents anymore.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: You see mostly hardshell roof tents. You see a lot
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: of these wedge campers.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: There's a product from way back in the day called
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a Wilderness.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was the real deal.
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: When I was driving little Toyota pickups, I was always like,
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: I gotta find one of those. I gotta get one
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: of those. But in fact, wasn't that.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that designed by It was a famous mountain climber,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: like a rock climber. It was. We'll have to put
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: that in the show notes. But yeah, it was designed
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: or it was run by like Alex somebody or whatever.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was like it was like one of
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: those famous rock climbers.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know who designed and.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: He he just like he built the thing that he
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: wanted to go out. Yeah, just like you guys. Yeah,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you're like, we've got some problems we need to solve
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: all then he built this real Now. They were very
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: different in the fact that they didn't go out over
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the back. They flipped out to the side and they
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: had support rods and stuff like that that would could
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: hold them up. Yeah. They're pretty amazing.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: They totally like captured my imagination back then, no doubt,
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: like the late nineties probably I remember.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were. I mean if he had just
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: if he just held on for like another five years, yeah, absolutely,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I mean they would have taken off. And of course,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you know, flip Pack was one of the really early
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: ones as well. They were fiberglass tops made in southern California,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: and I don't know if they're still in business or not,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: but these guys were just they were just a little
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: bit before the explosion.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty amazing to see that. And Matt, what do
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: you think you're gonna what's gonna be your first adventures
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: with the new wedge camper? What's the goal because I mean,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: it solves a bunch of problems.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: I Mean, the big goal for me is like, let's
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: park the airstream and break off and do something a
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: little bit more out there. Let's just get kind of
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: back to the roots of why we travel and do
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: the stuff. It's not to be in like a luxurious,
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: comfortable airstream all the time to go and have these
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: really cool experiences.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: That's the difference between like living on the road and
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: going out and having an adventure. And they can kind
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: of coalesce and they can be intertwined, but there's always
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: compromises to make sure, and like long term living on
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: the road for me dictates a certain level of basic
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: necessity comfort kind of stuff. So the wedge camper for
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: me is like I'm kind of excited to get back
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: out there, you know. So that might be like driving
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: on a road that I would never take the airstream
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: on right getting to a beautiful camp site. There's one
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: that comes to mind in Urra that's above the town
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: that there's no way I could bring the trailer up there.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: I know I can get my truck up there with
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: a new camper.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Though, and it's totally worth being there.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, yeah.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: But in the real immediate future, we're flying back to
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: the Portland area after this event, and the trucks out there,
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: we're going to grab it and we're gonna head out
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: to western or excuse me, Eastern Washington for a paragliding flying.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: So imagine we're going to be driving retrieve and hopefully
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: we're going to be driving up to some pretty cool
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: spots and maybe having some camping opportunities there.
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And I remember, Matt, when you first talked about getting
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a topper, because at first you thought, well, I'm going
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: to get some kind of a rack back there, and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: then you're like, nah, because it doesn't solve the security issue.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: So then you started looking at, you know, just regular canopies,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and then you realize, like, if I'm going to get
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a canopy, I might as well get something that I
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: can camp out of. Maybe it adds one hundred pounds
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: over a canopy, maybe one hundred and fifty. Yeah, not
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: at the most, It just doesn't add that much.
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: No, It's it's just like it's just such an easy
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: decision to make. It's like, have the tent, have the shelter, Yeah,
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: and it's not just a place to sleep, like you
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: can move the floor and stand up in the bed
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: of the truck and have full weather protection. I mean,
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: it is a level above just a roof top ten.
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: That feature of being able to pop it up, stand
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: in your truck bed and push the bed forward. Like
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: for me at this time in my life, it's all
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: about getting outside with my six year old son and
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: like ski days. Even if I didn't sleep in that thing,
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: just being able to get in there and like get
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: in and out.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Of wet clothes totally makes sense. Do what you need
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: to do and be out of the weather a little bit.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I mean so useful because Matt, you still do a
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: lot of rock climbing and stuff. I mean, to be
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: able to change at the end of the day, or
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: to change into whatever you got to get or.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: To be honest, we had put a lot of that
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: on pause with the paragliding because it's just kind of
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: like consumed all of our free time. But we have
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: been climbing lately, Like in the last couple of months
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: we went to Indian Creek and we were climbing around
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: Moab and again that's where I'm like, I wish we
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: didn't have the camperings all the time, I'm like, I
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: wish I had that secure storage. Leave the climbing gear
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: on the back of the truck overnight, and I have
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: to worry about someone you know, helping themselves do it,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: keeping it protected from dust well, or driving down those
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: long dirt roads to get to the climbing crag.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Within my family, we've discovered all these kind of urban
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: use scenarios around the wedge camper because it's so quick
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: and easy to deploy. Both my daughters play soccer, play
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of soccer. Many a soccer game, pull up
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: to the edge of the field when it's raining, you
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: pop the top. Me and my wife sit up top there.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: We can see over the fences. You can see the
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: whole field. So you're watching the game while all the
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: rest of the parents are getting So that's super great.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Next level, Yeah, muddy kids coming off the soccer field
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: being all muddy and stuff. You pop the top. Kid
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: goes in the back, changes their clothes. All sure, my
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: brother in law's dirt biker, same thing. Sure, come off
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: the trail, jump in the back, be able to change
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: out of all this gear. Totally surfing buddies do the
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: same thing, so it would be a great surf kind
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: of plan getting it out of a wet, wet suit.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: It's totally.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's humiliating sometimes.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and we talk a lot. We talk a lot
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: in that It's true. It is so true. It's like,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: why is this so hard to get off right? And
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: you're exhausted after whatever, surfing your spearfish or whatever, exactly
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: exactly you're flailing around. We talk a lot in this
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: podcast about spending less, bringing less, being more minimalist in
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the way that you approach travel, and that is one
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: of the things that I find so compelling about the
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: wedge style campers is that they are very simple. They
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: are much less expensive than a full camper, they're much
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: lighter than a full camper, and I think it solves
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the needs of many people. For those that are listening,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: if you're looking at trying to build out a camper,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: or you want to have a camper installed on the
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: back of your truck that you can sleep in, it's
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: worth considering a wedge camper for that because they are
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: so much less expensive and they are so much lighter.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and I think there's a number of companies
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: to choose from, and we all kind of have these
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: specific You've got a real.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Lot of good options. Yeah you can.
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you should be able to find something that really
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: fixes whatever problem you're trying to solve.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Ye, I've been having that conversation with folks who have
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: already seen the camper and they're like, what is that?
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: And you know, I'll talk to them, but yeah, the
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: truth is, there are so many good options right now, Like,
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: you should be able to find one that kind of
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: fulfills all of your basic needs. Yeah, and they're all
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: they're just also solid and most are so well made.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: It's awesome to see that.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: It has been fun to see in the couple of
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: years we've been doing it, to see a bunch more
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: pop up and you've like a bunch of other approaches
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: to solving similar problems. It's it's very cool to watch
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: how people approach that well.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: And you guys, are able to create a business that's
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: consistent with your passion. You're doing it in Oregon, You're
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: employing people in your community, you're manufacturing the product in
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: the United States. It's something that people can get serviced here.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: It's designed to be used in the remote conditions and
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: rugged conditions around the planet. I think that it's a
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: very it's a very compelling product for so many people,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: especially as we start seeing people migrate more away from
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: wagons and towards so it's pretty exciting to see.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: It's exciting and we're very lucky guys. Yeah, for sure,
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: we're having a good time doing this. Well, Spencer and Peter,
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: we appreciate your time.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Matt. Do you got any other questions or comments that
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you wanted to fire off around wedge campers?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Oh? Man, No, just it's really fun.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: Since having that on, people have come out of the
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: ward work and they're like, you have the ideal setup.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: That's what I want to do. I want to do
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: a travel trailer and a wedge camper.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, I'm glad that I'm not the only
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: one that thinks this is like a really compelling way
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: to do the full time travel thing. Yeah, and I'm
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: just so excited that when you know, we park the
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: trailer and we just want to use the truck, that
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: that's an option now and it's you know, it's more
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: full featured and it gives us everything we need. So
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: my only question is like, how soon can we see
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: more accessories Like I want to see, you know, all
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: the ideas that you guys have come to Fruition.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it'll be fun to see what you guys
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: come up with next and what we see from the
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: industry next. With with wedge campers, I think it's a
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: really compelling choice. So well, we appreciate you guys being
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. We will talk to you all next time.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: All right, thanks, thanks a lot.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: M