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When Prestige Isn't Enough: Rebecca's Career Change From Politics to Purpose · Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search

• 0:00
  Rebecca Maddox 00:01:
• 0:01
  I remember people saying, "Oh man, but you've got the dream." And it kind of raises a red flag as people say, "You have the dreamy…" Yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. But something feels off right now, at least for what I think I'm looking for.
• 0:02
  Scott Anthony Barlow 00:17:
• 0:03
  One unexpected obstacle that you might have to overcome when making a career change is dealing with reactions from the people closest to you. Okay, surprisingly, these reactions are not always positive and encouraging. Your friends and family likely want what is best for you.
• 0:04
  And they may not think that a career change is a smart move. So how do you navigate these conversations with the people closest to you and get them on board to support you as you make this big life change?
• 0:05
  Rebecca Maddox 00:46:
• 0:06
  Know who's supporting you. Surround yourself with those people. Check in with those people. You need support, and if you need their support to help you accomplish your dream, or to move forward, or to do anything challenging, whether that's lose five pounds or move across country, just have those people check in with these people every so often to know that you're supported.
• 0:07
  Scott Anthony Barlow 01:06:
• 0:08
  That's Rebecca Maddox. Rebecca was a lawyer working in a political arena in Washington, DC, when she decided she needed to change for many reasons. One of those included health problems that were surfacing from the stress.
• 0:09
  When it came time to let her support system know she was working on making a career change, she was met with some surprising reactions, which ranged from nervously happy for her to angry and argumentative.
• 0:10
  I want you to listen to how Rebecca navigated these conversations, because she gives an almost exact script for what to say to your support system when you're making a career change. Here's Rebecca, taking us back to when her law journey began.
• 0:11
  Rebecca Maddox 01:46:
• 0:12
  I decided to go to law school, back, I think it was my junior year of college. No one else in my family had gone to law school, and before all of it, I'd actually been thinking, “Oh, I wanna go to med school.” And then I took calculus and chemistry at the same time, freshman year, and there's nothing quite like that to, like, really make you reconsider your priorities in life. “I don't know if this is right for me.” So I reconsidered everything.
• 0:13
  I went on a longer journey with taking environmental science courses, learning more about environmental policy, going into women and gender classes, and policy. I took a class, I think on feminist jurisprudence. And that opened my eyes to the idea of “Ha! I find this fascinating. What if the law is actually something I wanna do?”
• 0:14
  And I remember telling my parents, "I wanted to go to law school," and they said, “Really? Sure? Are you sure?” And I took the LSAT. I did an internship where an attorney was representing the community group in front of a zoning commission. I thought, "This is just incredible."
• 0:15
  So I ended up going to law school because I like the idea of how you could use advocacy in arguments to, like, build a foundation to achieve something for someone. Because I think ultimately, at the end of the day, I wanted to help people. And that's what moves me towards law school. I ended up going to law school at the University of Maryland. And after I went to school there, I realized I've never been involved in politics. I guess that's forwarding.
• 0:16
  I realized, I've had experience, undergrad with some environmental sort of organizing stuff back in the day. I now have experience in law, but I've never looked at politics, which feels like another factor, and something that's close to me now that I'm in Maryland, and DC is not very far away. What if, like, I don't have kids, I don't have a house. What if that's something worth trying? And I ended up connecting with an office in DC. And then I did that for a couple of years.
• 0:17
  Scott Anthony Barlow 03:55:
• 0:18
  Who were the types of people that you sought out to try and find out, "Hey, what do you mean this politics? Like, what's all this meaning?" Who were those types of people, or who were those folks in your life?
• 0:19
  Rebecca Maddox 04:07:
• 0:20
  Oh, yeah, that's a great question. Because coming from my family, my family is filled, my extended family, my immediate family, it's filled with teachers and doctors, no one knew anything much about connecting in with politics.
• 0:21
  And I remember a friend at school was involved more with politics, and there was an intern coordinator who handled more political internships for the school. And she said, “You should go talk to her.” And I said, “Okay.” And I think my, in general, my best… the way I found most of my internships or experiences while in school was definitely through teachers. Teachers saying, “Hey, you’re… You should be connecting to extra shifts. Hey, you should be connecting to these things.” They kind of acted as mentors to shepherd me through.
• 0:22
  And getting into politics, in general, is just... it's a tough game. I mean, everyone's coming in trying to prove the self worth. And it's a lot of networking and it's a lot of meet people for coffee and trying to figure out you have a connection to their state, to their political beliefs, to their office, to someone in their office. It kind of strips the greenness off a little bit.
• 0:23
  Scott Anthony Barlow 05:25:
• 0:24
  Off of you very quickly.
• 0:25
  Rebecca Maddox 05:26:
• 0:26
  Exactly.
• 0:27
  Scott Anthony Barlow 05:28:
• 0:28
  No longer green, almost immediately as you move into that. You and I had a conversation, maybe, I don't know, seven, eight months ago, or something, which was the first time you and I had met after you found HTYC. And at that point in time, you were less excited, shall I say, about being in DC and being involved in the political arena. Is that fair to say?
• 0:29
  Rebecca Maddox 05:53:
• 0:30
  Yeah, that's fair to say. I would say during my time there it was... it is really exciting. And it's really interesting because you're dealing with some very big issues, and everything saying yes, changing all the time. And you work with some very motivated, very intelligent people, and some very diplomatic and great people to work with.
• 0:31
  But the same time, it's sometimes working at 50,000 feet, feeling like you're kind of hovering above ground. You start, I think, after a while, starting to wonder about my impact and connecting with people and wondering, is this the best use of my skills? And I remember people saying, "Oh, man, but you've got the dream." And it kind of raises a red flag if people say, "You have the dreamy..."
• 0:32
  Yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. But something feels off right now, at least for what I think I'm looking for. And I think in that moment, I started looking for a career coach, because when you're in a position, especially that you've worked really hard to get, they've put in a lot of time, a lot of years, and you're thinking, “okay, right, this feels right. It feels like I'm gaining experience and gaining some, a little bit of, you know, have a good reputation here. I've got something going.”
• 0:33
  It's hard to talk to other people. It's hard to know who to talk to, to say, "Hey, I'm wondering if there's something else out there for me." Or to say, hey, even to your family, to your loved ones, say, "Hey, I'm not sure if this will be my forever fit. Or maybe this is the best fit for me in terms of like, my goals or what I'm thinking right now." Because everybody has their own bias.
• 0:34
  But if your family supported you and getting used to this position, they want to see you happy, but they also are wondering, "why would you leave?" So it kind of... It's the dream. And granted, there were a lot of opportunities, great opportunities, great people to work with, again, it's just kind of thinking "Okay. So, but for me and my skills, and what I'm thinking that's for my own personal move, what are my options? How should I be thinking about this?"
• 0:35
  I think having a little bit of an outside perspective there of someone who can call you out, and maybe when you're not taking accountability for everything in your sphere. I mean, he's the one who can point things out or help you navigate it. I think that's what I was looking for.
• 0:36
  Scott Anthony Barlow 08:12:
• 0:37
  Interesting. So I'm curious, just diving back for a half a second, because it sounds like you were having fun with some areas of it, and as you got in there, there was different levels of excitement and things that totally jived with what you were interested in, at least at the time.
• 0:38
  What really started you down the path of either realizing that it had changed or that you wanted something different? What happened in between there that caused you to have a difference of opinion from when you went down and when you were having fun with it initially?
• 0:39
  Rebecca Maddox 08:47:
• 0:40
  I started thinking about, I think I started feeling a little disconnected. Sometimes we would start working on an issue, and then something else would become more politically important to be working on or focusing on.
• 0:41
  So jumping around, we have a lot of loose… there were loose ends, and I thought, "Okay, what am I accomplishing here?" And I started feeling a little bit of that disconnect. And then also there's this sort of, there's a thoroughness impact, but also the depth of the issue, where when you're working on like a higher level on the issues, you don't want to dive too deep into the weeds, but you also need to create something.
• 0:42
  So I became a very versatile generalist, looking at different issues across a spectrum, but it was diving into, I think, when you're running on an inch deep mile wide, you know, some people thrive in that environment. They see the bigger forces, and they enjoy just kind of staying a little bit in the substance, but mostly on the bigger forces and political forces, and again, navigating that.
• 0:43
  But for me, I found that this is all very exciting. I would love to have something like it to dive more into, be more of an expert on, sink my teeth into more. So I started reconsidering my impact, and as well as my, ultimately, how did I want my ideal office. How, at least, how I get my rewards at work? What makes sense? Is it like having a big policy issue work? Or is it more of a one on one relationship with a client, like that kind of work?
• 0:44
  And I thought, "Actually, it's the client." I just started a little piece by piece, picking things off. And sometimes too, when you're in that environment, you know that something's not working, but you're not quite sure what. And it's sometimes can be hard to hear your voice in that space. And I think I was going to on top of all of this, my heart was also somewhere else, like my significant other, he was out on the campaign trail.
• 0:45
  And at that point in time, I thought, "Okay, how are we going to get ourselves on the same place? We've been doing long distance for a long time." So there was a little bit of that coming... There was that coming into play as well, or that, okay, I'm trying to hold it all together, but something's gonna get eventually. What makes sense for me?
• 0:46
  Scott Anthony Barlow 11:09:
• 0:47
  That's super interesting on a variety of levels, partially because you began to recognize that being an overall generalist and not getting to go deep with something that you were missing quite a bit.
• 0:48
  And then at the same time, you had some needs and wants, life changes, like, how are we going to stop doing this long distance relationship? And so you had a couple of things pulling in different areas and for one, super cool that you recognize the need for change, because I think a lot of people will just keep going. Like, I mean, I encounter them all the time where people will just keep on going, rather than acting on that need or want for change. So kudos to you, first of all.
• 0:49
  Rebecca Maddox 11:55:
• 0:50
  I mean, thanks. It's when you're in this zone, or when you're doing this, especially if you've had a lot of time and energy invested into it, and there are a lot of things, I'm not usually black and white. It's not like a voice from God comes down unless you just have lucky people, right? If you're like, "Oh yeah, there's the burning bush. Cool. I got my instructions. Let's go."
• 0:51
  For me, it was, I don't remember who told me this, or where I read this, but it's like the little things, you start feeling a little itch, and you say, "Maybe... am I crazy?" And so you think, you know, everything else was going on.
• 0:52
  Let's just keep going with this, or maybe it's just me, maybe like, I did that for a while, or I thought, "Okay, I'm not handling this correctly. I need to, you know, go running, I need to make sure I'm getting my energy out, I need to make sure I'm following up on where I've made mistakes, and try not to do those again. I need to be like accountable. I need to..." you know, you try to fix all the other things.
• 0:53
  But there was a moment for me I think, I know I would say for other listeners, if there's a moment where you know something's really off, whether it's like that moment where you snap at someone you didn't realize, you didn't mean to and they went way beyond what you normally are, you think this is not where I'm supposed to be, this is something's wrong.
• 0:54
  I would say listen to that. I think my moment was, this was a long time before I made my move out of DC, but at the moment, I went into the dentist's office, they did an X-ray of my molars, and the nerves just looked like scrambled eggs. I'm not out of my 20s, and they said, "Look, you are clenching your teeth so hard at night from stress, that you have messed up your nerve endings. And if you keep going like this, you're going to need root canals for all 4 teeth by the time you're 30."
• 0:55
  And I just, it kind of made me sit down and say, something's wrong. Something's really wrong. And I kind of tried to, like, just keep work, just keep swimming, just keep swimming, right? Keep going, keep going. You can do it. Just keep focus. Everyone goes and runs into issues like this. And then eventually, something starts to get and say, "you know, maybe something is off."
• 0:56
  And I think the hard part of that, for me, was negotiating with my family and friends, not just in the workplace. I'm trying to be professional, right? You're trying to protect yourself. But then the hard part with family and friends is explaining, "Hey, I'm gonna go work. I'm interested in this idea. I would really appreciate your support. I think it's worth a shot for me to kind of look into."
• 0:57
  Scott Anthony Barlow 14:27:
• 0:58
  How did you handle some of those conversations? Because I think that's a real thing for nearly everybody. Even if you've got a fairly supportive family, like, if you're on that end of the spectrum and have a family that understands, it's still like a big gap. And it's like, well, why or the other questions that come up. So I'm curious, how did you approach some of those conversations?
• 0:59
  Rebecca Maddox 14:50:
• 1:00
  Right. The hard part when you're thinking of making a change in your life is that either, I've run into several reactions. People are usually nervous, and they want to be helpful, a loved ones in particular want to be helpful, but they oftentimes don't know how to approach the issue. I've had ranging issues of people saying, "Well, just go do what you love. Go do what you love." And I think, well, that's kind of broad.
• 1:01
  Scott Anthony Barlow 15:21:
• 1:02
  Just go do it. Just start doing it.
• 1:03
  Rebecca Maddox 15:24:
• 1:04
  Or I even once had someone ask me, "Well, what's the one thing that you need in life?" And I had to look back, and honestly, it's like, I don't know, food, clothing, shelter? Like, where are we going with this, right?
• 1:05
  Scott Anthony Barlow 15:36:
• 1:06
  Water, obviously.
• 1:07
  Rebecca Maddox 15:38:
• 1:08
  The water.
• 1:09
  Scott Anthony Barlow 15:38:
• 1:10
  Thanks for that piece of information.
• 1:11
  Rebecca Maddox 15:41:
• 1:12
  Vote one for water. Water was popular, though. So I would say I want… so in approaching that I think I had to realize that like, why I was feeling vulnerable in my search or feeling and trying to think broadly, I had to realize that other people are feeling a little thrown out of kilter, because they too are wanting good things for you, but also, you know, think of you in a certain way.
• 1:13
  So having those honest and open conversations is really important. And for people who truly didn't understand or angry, which I ran into a fair amount as well. And I think that was one thing, you know, as I was talking today, that was something that came up for me because I think that was something that threw me off kilter, my job search was just the emotional impact of others. Not understanding or being frustrated, and there's validity there.
• 1:14
  It's, I think my moment of wisdom was with what somebody who’s very close to me. And he said, "I think you're making a mistake. Why are you moving cross country?" And I think, number one, like they may be mad about certain things if you're making yourself vulnerable and making other people vulnerable financially.
• 1:15
  So that is one thing to put on the side back burner, so I personally had enough in savings to say, "Hey, I've saved that for this moment. I prepared for this moment. I can do this." So there was that.
• 1:16
  And then the other part, the logical support, wanting them to support me where I was, I think, I had to say, "Look, you're my friend, you're my loved one. I love you dearly. And your support means so much to me. I need to give this a try. And if it doesn't work out, I'll be okay. Things will be okay. I need... I just need for you to trust in me, in my skills, that things will be okay at this moment. And then if something else comes up, we'll just troubleshoot it from there. But here's my plan, here's where we're going. I really would appreciate your support in this."
• 1:17
  So that's how I went about it, whether it was the best move and the most comprehensive. Yeah, I'm sure other people have other pointers. But like, I think that's what helped, for me.
• 1:18
  Scott Anthony Barlow 17:42:
• 1:19
  What you just verbalized, I think is a great script, actually, that we found generally works, because when you're explaining why, when you're explaining why you need to make the change, and then asking specifically for support, and then even explaining that, ultimately, look, it's gonna be okay, because of these reasons, then I think that helps people move from point A to point Z in terms of how they're looking at it.
• 1:20
  Rebecca Maddox 18:10:
• 1:21
  Right. You know, it's hard. So at second point, you have to kind of know who your main people are, who are... know who your main support are, talk to those people first, and then know to a certain degree, it will percolate through.
• 1:22
  And then know over time, things get better. People ease off, especially if, as you move on, if it works out. I mean, for me, as I've left, after I left DC, there are little things people have noticed, like I'm laughing more and my hair is blonde, or if I'm in the outside more and, you know, little things, people say, you know, maybe it's not so bad.
• 1:23
  I think to the idea of dropping everything, or dropping things and moving on to a different opportunity, is something that's risky. And a lot of people are risk averse, they're nervous, they wouldn't have necessarily done this for themselves.
• 1:24
  So that's another... there's several hurdles of how people make their own decisions in addition to the fact that maybe they just wanted you there. Maybe they said, “you know what, you have a great career, and I'm bragging about you. And maybe I just always thought this was who and what you wanted, and who are you anymore."
• 1:25
  So there's a little bit of that going on, too. And so there's... that's kind of the untold story, along with career change, my experience, is how your support system works. And I would recommend a good piece of advice that was given to me that I would recommend to others is, "know who's supporting you, surround yourself with those people, check in with those people. If you need their support to help you accomplish your dream, or to move forward, or to do anything challenging, whether that's lose five pounds or move across the country, just have those people, check in with these people every year, every so often, to know that you're supported."
• 1:26
  Scott Anthony Barlow 19:57:
• 1:27
  That is amazing advice, especially just coming off of this, it's like fresh, it's hot off the press. Did you still, for all intents and purposes, kind of like just been through this? And just gotten off the train, if you will.
• 1:28
  Even I forget, like I'm surrounded by this all the time, and I've gone through this, and I found these same things for myself too. And I totally making multiple career changes myself did not anticipate, like, that emotional tool that you're talking about earlier. And you mentioned where you're just having lots and lots of conversations with people, and you're like, not just taking the actions, but you're also explaining the actions, and then you're trying to help make it easy for them to support you in taking these actions and all the stuff that you just never imagined would go along with it.
• 1:29
  And I think that's part of the reason why so many people end up staying in the same place, too, because that's hard.
• 1:30
  Rebecca Maddox 20:48:
• 1:31
  It's hard. And it's risky. Because what's on the other end of the yellow brick road, right? Like...
• 1:32
  Scott Anthony Barlow 20:56:
• 1:33
  Oh, my goodness. What if the wizard's me?
• 1:34
  Rebecca Maddox 20:59:
• 1:35
  You never know. You gotta take that leap of faith. Well, the brick, you know, if you lead them to the canyon, well, the bridge built underneath you, like, you know, that's scary. Well, the other people will be there to support you? I don’t know, you hope so.
• 1:36
  And I think for me, I made the decision to, for where I was, when my job ended, I didn't have anything else lined up, and I think that made other people nervous too.
• 1:37
  And, again, having that cushion, I think it was like that financial cushion was a way... it was almost like my first line of defense to say, "You know what, we're fine. We're gonna work this out. I'm working diligently on this. Everything is paid. Everything is good. So, what's going on?"
• 1:38
  I would also say during that time, because people are nervous and they project that nervousness onto you. And in addition to your own, like, insecurities, you're trying to deal with, "Oh my gosh, am I able to do this?"
• 1:39
  Scott Anthony Barlow 21:56:
• 1:40
  Did I make the right decision? Oh, my goodness.
• 1:41
  Rebecca Maddox 21:59:
• 1:42
  I would definitely... The negative voices came and something I also, that was helpful for me during the coaching experience was, and something I learned along the way was that it's also very important to give yourself some grace, show yourself some grace.
• 1:43
  And I would totally recommend Elizabeth Gilbert. Love her. She has her book "Big Magic". And listening to that was actually very helpful. This idea that you have this creative muscle, and you have to give a little space to breathe.
• 1:44
  And maybe during this process, finding your... I felt a great deal of pressure to find the job. Coming from this job that I was at and then moving to another job, I felt a great deal of pressure to find something that was justified as like, the bigger, better thing, right?
• 1:45
  And when Elizabeth Gilbert was talking about her... about artists who put so much pressure on themselves to try to create their whole career off of their art, that it kills your creative muscle, that resonated with me so deeply, I thought, "Oh my gosh, I feel the same such similar pressure with finding the job. Like finding this, where's your career trajectory going? Like, proving success."
• 1:46
  I thought this is about finding what is my best fit for my skills. This is about finding the next best step in my career for me to be successful, where the average person might put in 100% and get 100% back, but maybe where I put 100% and I get 150 to 200% back because I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do.
• 1:47
  And I thought, that's what I'm looking for here. So hearing that advice, kind of ease off a little bit and realize, "okay, if I have to go find other jobs to be a bridge for the moment, that's fine. I can do that. What's most important is I focus on finding the next best step for me." So I would definitely recommend Elizabeth Gilbert to anyone.
• 1:48
  Scott Anthony Barlow 24:01:
• 1:49
  I have had several people recommend that same book in particular, probably about, I don't know, 10 or 15 times or so. And I'm curious, as you went through this process, and as you were... you call it, trying to find the next best step for you, or something close to that. How did you end up working with Lisa? And what were the one or two biggest things that you ended up taking away from your interactions with Lisa about your next best thing? Because it's certainly not everybody's, right? It's individualized.
• 1:50
  Rebecca Maddox 24:42:
• 1:51
  Yeah. Working with Lisa which is great. Love working with Lisa.
• 1:52
  Scott Anthony Barlow 24:46:
• 1:53
  And by the way, Lisa, we're talking about Lisa Lewis, for context here. You're going to hear her story happentoyourcareer.com/147 on episode 147.
• 1:54
  Rebecca Maddox 24:56:
• 1:55
  Yeah, she was great. And I think something... so I just decided to start working with Lisa. Because as I was diving into the bootcamp, the free bootcamp at Happen To Your Career, and I was really trying to think broadly, I had this moment of thinking, "Okay, should I even... should I be a lawyer? What should I do?" I just went and took the kind of what color is your parachute approach, found Happen To Your Career, really started trying to dig deep and, like, lay a foundation.
• 1:56
  And I started working with Lisa when I got to a point of saying, "Okay, I'm pulling some of these things out. But it's, like, some of my strengths, some of my interests, but it's murky. I'm not sure how to move forward for this."
• 1:57
  And I think not knowing where you want to go, like, again, some people hear the burning bush or see the burning bush, some people don't, I did not. And I was wondering, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for. How do I move forward? How do I develop this? How do I really, I was hoping to get that burning bush, but when we didn't, oh gosh, I don’t know what I'm doing.
• 1:58
  So that's when I started, I think, feeling stuck. How do I move forward with this? That's when I called, Happen To Your Career. That's when I decided it's time to reach out to a coach who can, who's impartial, who isn't like my family because they don't have a vested interest in me being in one place or another. Because they love me. But you know, this makes me nervous. And it's not like other people on my network who, too, might see me in a particular way and then say, "Oh, but don't you want to do X, Y, and Z?"
• 1:59
  And then also some people are just so outside of the job search game that they just haven't... they have general advice, but it may not be what you need. So it was helpful working with her because she helped me think about structuring... how to structure or talking with people about what I'm looking for. What are the next steps to move forward?
• 2:00
  And two, there are moments when I was avoiding an issue in my career search that she would… she even called me out, which was great, she can call me out, "So why do you think you're avoiding this? What are you protecting on yourself by avoiding this issue?" That you're not just avoiding it because you're lazy or something, that's my phrasing, she never said that. But what are you trying to protect in yourself that you feel vulnerable about? Which was a way that like no one had ever proposed to me before.
• 2:01
  And wow, actually, that's a really good point. I remember I had this breakthrough moment journaling about it. And I think, too, in addition, it was helpful to have Lisa through the interviewing process, because in addition to the pragmatic, like, "Oh, someone responded like this, how should I respond? How should I deal with some of the basic baseline things?"
• 2:02
  There was also this question of, I think, my inherent bias, having gone through trying to find a job in DC, as a lawyer in 2013, where there are tons of lawyers and people kept saying, like, where, you know, you felt generally, kind of disposable.
• 2:03
  And at that point in time, and having to scrape by for a job, I had an inherent tendency to try to form myself into the person I thought that they were looking for, for these interviews, rather than presenting, "Here's where I am, here's what I'm looking for. I would love to work with you in the future. If this opportunity works."
• 2:04
  Like I very much had this bias to try to get the job, right, like do whatever it takes to get the job. When in reality, just getting the job can lead to a mismatch and a miscommunication expectations and assumptions between you and the employer. So the employer doesn't do what they want, you don't get what you want.
• 2:05
  There's like this, there's just desperation in there. And even though, which came through, even though I have money and our money at the time to cover my bills, my baseline bills at that moment, but I was still just, that was just my inclination. And working with Lisa, it was helpful to strip down extraneous and get back to being more authentic without trying to preclude the opportunity. But just to be honest, and say, "Hey, well, here's where I'm coming from. What do you think you're looking for?" Which really changed the interview process for me.
• 2:06
  Scott Anthony Barlow 29:27:
• 2:07
  That's a huge mindset switch. That is a massive mindset switch.
• 2:08
  Rebecca Maddox 29:31:
• 2:09
  Huge. And it felt really bizarre at first because I thought, "Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm naked in the room." Because...
• 2:10
  Scott Anthony Barlow 29:40:
• 2:11
  It feels absurd at first.
• 2:12
  Rebecca Maddox 29:42:
• 2:13
  It really does. I think, at least, I was calling it radical authenticity in the moment. It was... it feels really bizarre because you're trying, either realizing like, there's just 100 in particular that I thought I knew it once I say this stuff, this thing's done, like I know, because I thought, I'm interested in the job, but I don't know for how long I would be interested.
• 2:14
  Given like what this position is, I don't think I'd want to stay too terribly long. ‘Cause I would outgrow it pretty quickly. And they, I think, have the same concern. And I thought this would be like my foot in the door, at least getting the office. There's just so few opportunities. I’m just like, ah, I’m not sure.
• 2:15
  And so, talking to Lisa about it, I practiced it, and then went into the interview and then actually said, "I would be practiced aligned to get ready for it." And once I gave my line of, “I think I would be interested in growing from this experience into other opportunities in the office. What do you think you're looking for? Or could you tell me what you're looking for exactly?"
• 2:16
  It's like, it's centering. It centers where your position of power is. And when I walked out of the office, I knew I'm not gonna get a call back from this. But I still felt okay with that, which is not the way I would have felt before. I felt like before, if I had gone in and not conformed or not conformed, or like if I hadn't tried to, like, meet what they're looking for to try to get the job, I would have felt like I was letting myself down because I wasn't keeping my options open.
• 2:17
  But then again, like, in this interview, I thought I'm being honest. They deserve to find someone that they think is their best fit. I deserve to have a job that works for me. I feel so much more comfortable with this.
• 2:18
  So it was kind of a different shift in narrative that I think ended up paying off for different interviews. And after I take the bar, and looking forward to joining a firm in Fresno, California, where I will be doing essentially doing litigation and using all those tools and things that I learned in law school and putting them to good use.
• 2:19
  Scott Anthony Barlow 31:49:
• 2:20
  This has been super fun for me because you and I got to talk way back when, as you were on the outset, looking at making this change. And then now we get to talk, and Lisa has been keeping me up to date throughout the middle. But I didn't get all the juicy details. So this is super fun for me to get to find out a lot of this stuff after the fact. So congratulations again, by the way.
• 2:21
  Rebecca Maddox 32:11:
• 2:22
  Thank you.
• 2:23
  Scott Anthony Barlow 32:12:
• 2:24
  So I am... Here's my question for you, what advice would you give people as they're thinking about making this change?
• 2:25
  Rebecca Maddox 32:21:
• 2:26
  Right. There in the beginning portion, talk to somebody who reach out to someone and talk to friends, and say, “Hey, can you even get paid does this sort of thing? I think it's interesting.”
• 2:27
  And maybe meet up for coffee, because a five minute conversation, because people are busy, right? Like less than an hour, great. Less than five minutes, great. Saying, “Hi, I think what you do is amazing. I'm really curious when you do your job.” I would say it's worth it. It's no pressure. And if it works out, that's how most people find their jobs anyways.
• 2:28
  And if you're in that moment and thinking, "Okay, there's nothing. Geez, I'm so entrenched in where I am, like, moving to a different opportunity is kind of a joke." I would say you're probably wrong, unless you're in an extremely niche field. Because skills are transferable.
• 2:29
  And it's worth trying the bootcamp stuff, maybe doing a StrengthsFinder analysis, doing something, just to get a different perspective. And ultimately, like if people are telling you, "you've got the dream,” but it's something that doesn't feel right, that's fine. That's fine. Trust that.
• 2:30
  And if people are angry, they'll come around, especially if you, like, you know this wrong, you're going to make yourself happy. It's going to make everyone else happy, right? Like, do the right thing.
• 2:31
  Scott Anthony Barlow 33:44:
• 2:32
  Hey, if you're ready to be clear on what you want and find what fits you, I would say just email me — pause this right now — scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put “Conversation” in the subject line. I'll connect you with somebody on my team, the right person on my team, who can help you discover your ideal career profile. Again, it's scott@happentoyourcareer.com.