Latest / Tony & Sarah Unscripted / Ep 15: Any Pronouns? Yep, Any Pronouns

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Ep 15: Any Pronouns? Yep, Any Pronouns · Tony & Sarah Unscripted

0:09
All right,
0:10
so welcome back to Tony and Sara unscripted.
0:13
We took a little bit of a break just to have some time to get some things
0:18
done, right?
0:19
Yeah, yeah.
0:20
It was great to be back here.
0:21
And our first guest back is Carrie.
0:24
Welcome to the show. Hi.
0:25
I got to meet Carrie probably just a couple of months ago at this.
0:30
At this stage, I'm thinking Jude Day of East Haven Pride.
0:33
Whenever that one. That's right.
0:34
Okay. Yes.
0:35
And I met you at ACS, which is where you work.
0:38
You're a special ed teacher, and I was there doing a little talk.
0:42
So I'm thrilled that you agreed to come on board with us.
0:46
And thank you so much for giving you your time.
0:48
Giving us your time. Thank you guys for having me.
0:50
It was very excited. As soon as you were like, do you want to go?
0:53
Come on. I was like, yes, yes, yes I did.
0:54
And I think I met you later on that day at the
0:58
ice cream type of pride thing at the Trolley Museum, right?
1:02
Yeah. East Haven pride. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:03
So it all kind of worked out well.
1:04
And then you were able to come, and then you were going on vacation
1:07
and anyway, all worked out well.
1:08
So welcome to our show.
1:10
And again, thank you so much for being here.
1:13
So do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?
1:15
Sure.
1:16
I could go many different ways, but I think the, the biggest things
1:20
I'm in my 40s living my trying to live my best life.
1:24
I've been married for almost almost ten years, and I have.
1:28
We're in the process of adopting an eight year old daughter.
1:30
So that's sort of the the big things right now in my world.
1:34
I've been a special ed teacher for you.
1:37
Never remember, let's say, 15 ish years.
1:40
Right now I'm working with severe special ed kids.
1:42
But in prior
1:44
versions of myself, I guess I was a working
1:47
at behavioral schools a lot, and one of my big things that I did
1:51
in those spaces was work on like Dei work, and really big thing was making sure
1:56
I was like, every school I work at the GSA and needs an active GSA
2:01
just because it was something that was obviously here and dear to my heart.
2:06
I am a I identify as queer, genderqueer, and bisexual.
2:12
That took a long time in my life to get to to figure those out
2:17
and thankful for a wonderful wife who helped me get to those places.
2:20
So that being said, what pronouns?
2:23
I actually use any pronouns. Any pronouns.
2:27
Okay, can I?
2:28
All right, so this is not new, but it's fairly new
2:32
when people are saying, I use any pronouns because I was facilitating a panel
2:37
and the first person, you know, I was like, hey, introduce yourselves,
2:40
tell us your name and pronouns.
2:41
And they said any.
2:43
And I panicked, I did, I panicked, okay.
2:47
And I was like, okay, but what what pronouns you feel comfortable using today?
2:52
And and they were like, he can you.
2:55
He I was like, okay. He
2:57
do you when you tell
2:59
if somebody asks you if the person talking to you says,
3:01
and I know a lot of people don't ask, but somebody says,
3:03
you know what pronouns you use and you say any do you
3:06
welcome them asking you like, which one do you feel comfortable?
3:08
Or are you sincerely cool with any pronoun because there's a lot of them now
3:14
that they'll throw at you?
3:15
I think I'm sincerely cool.
3:17
I can I can comfortably say I'm really cool with the with he she he she or they.
3:22
Okay.
3:22
I think the other ones I just, I haven't had experience with.
3:25
Right. I don't know how I'd feel with them.
3:28
I made a sort of conscious choice when I was really coming
3:32
into thinking about like, oh, you're non-binary, you do not fit.
3:35
And where where is your non-binary?
3:37
Because that's another one that people like.
3:39
Well, what's non-binary?
3:40
And I was like, well, you know how when people say, if you've met
3:43
one autistic person, you've met one autistic person, like it's the same thing.
3:47
It's so different for so many people. Absolutely.
3:49
And that's that part.
3:51
So something I still work on a lot trying to figure out, you know, as time goes on.
3:55
But one of those that that first thing is like, well, okay,
3:58
what are your pronouns going to be if you're not, you know,
4:00
if you're not a girl and was like, well, none of them fit completely right?
4:05
And then I said, it's the least important part of who I am to me.
4:09
And I think that's not the same for everybody, right?
4:11
This is this is really an individual answer
4:13
because everybody, anybody that uses any pronoun might feel differently.
4:17
But I just thought in your case.
4:19
And so but I made a conscious decision because as a teacher and I love teachers
4:25
and I love teaching, but it is a space where this is
4:29
consistently in front of you, and a lot of people don't engage with it.
4:33
And I think a lot of times it's because they're scared, right?
4:36
So for me, I made a conscious decision to say to people, I don't care
4:40
what pronouns you use.
4:41
I don't like lady, I don't like ma'am.
4:43
Yeah, I don't like. And that's not a pronoun.
4:45
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Thank God that was my thing.
4:47
That would confuse everybody. Don't like ma'am?
4:49
I don't like when you're like, hey, girls, like, those are the things.
4:51
Like you're not recognizing who I am, right?
4:54
Pronoun is just saying whatever.
4:56
People miss our pronouns to me. Right.
4:58
But and the other thing I said them, I said, any person
5:02
you have no excuse anymore to say I'm not comfortable with it
5:05
or I don't know how to do it or it's just something I have to get used to
5:08
because I am your practice.
5:10
Yeah, right.
5:11
If you are as someone who's like, I can't, I can't do they them it's not correct.
5:15
Well, here I am because I don't care if you screw it up 75 times, right.
5:19
And you can get comfortable with it. Yeah.
5:21
And it's actually led to some really great conversations and some moments that are
5:29
for me, they're very validating.
5:32
Like it's it's weird to say
5:33
because I don't mean it as a litmus test, but it becomes one, right?
5:37
Most people still she her she I carry she she she she and I'm like okay.
5:43
And it doesn't, it's fine.
5:44
But then when you get,
5:45
you get the person just on a random day who's like, well, he says.
5:48
And I'm like, wait a minute. Oh, look.
5:50
And it's just
5:51
and it's again, it's not the pronoun, it's you thought about it, right?
5:54
You spend some time to see that, like, I am not what you've decided.
5:59
I am so, so when you say like generally you don't care
6:02
what you know, what pronoun people used.
6:05
It just seemed to,
6:06
in that example that you kind of gravitate more to the heat, like you said.
6:10
Well, you know, she she she, you don't like
6:12
when somebody uses the same pronoun on, you know, it was just, it's
6:16
I don't the pronouns not what, what what hits me.
6:19
Okay.
6:19
It's the you have taken the time to recognize I am not what you.
6:25
I don't know how graphic.
6:26
I don't think this graphic, but like, yeah, I you looked at me,
6:29
you saw boobs and you did not automatically think I was a woman.
6:32
Okay. I think is a big it.
6:35
You know, I look at the way I dress, I look at my haircut and I used,
6:38
I used to do, you know, at school it was button downs and bow ties.
6:41
And I'm like, what are you seeing that saying?
6:44
People live unconsciously. Right.
6:46
And so it was that moment of like,
6:48
you're taking this extra step to see me as a human, right?
6:52
Right.
6:52
And I have one of my assistant principals uses they them for me all the time.
6:58
And again, it it jolts me in a minute because I'm, I'm so used to hearing
7:02
she her. Yeah.
7:03
But so I'm like wait, what? And I was like oh right.
7:05
But again it's.
7:07
And I said to them the first time they asked me,
7:09
they're like, well, what do you want me to use?
7:11
And I said, whatever you want.
7:12
And I explained to them the whole thing about like, do whatever feels comfortable.
7:16
I feel it's a lot of pressure, right?
7:18
Like, I wouldn't want to hurt anybody's feelings,
7:20
especially me being so sensitive.
7:21
And my pronouns, you know, as a trans guy, like,
7:24
it used to trigger me when somebody says, hey, ladies.
7:26
And they weren't even talking to me, but I was like, hey, lady, you know,
7:30
they could be talking to the table next to me.
7:31
And I'm like, oh my God, why did they say that?
7:34
So yeah, I think those are the bigger ones.
7:36
For me, it's the when you me in to
7:41
this is what I see and this is what I want to see.
7:43
Instead of recognizing that you are not seeing, you know what you are.
7:47
What you've been told to see is not the reality of the world anymore.
7:51
And it never really was right.
7:53
Right, but I exist, I am here and part of the community see me for who I am.
7:58
And you know, there was someone I can't remember who it was, but my
8:04
last school in Boston where I taught, that would just mix it up
8:07
all the time, and I was like, yay!
8:10
Because it was just like they were.
8:12
And they were forcing other people to see it, right?
8:14
Yeah.
8:14
I think that's sort of the disruptor in me to why I do that.
8:18
Right is like, I want you to come to me and be like,
8:22
well, what does that even like, why why does this why can't you just pick one?
8:26
And to have I've had multiple conversations that are similar
8:29
to this where I get to say to them and I all very often say, let me be clear.
8:34
I'm telling you, I don't care.
8:36
That doesn't mean nobody cares.
8:38
Right? Well, right. It's an individual. Yeah, yeah.
8:41
And kind of giving them that space because, you know,
8:44
I had another woman who came.
8:45
She kept doing ladies, ladies, ladies.
8:48
And I finally said to her, oh no.
8:50
She would say, girls, hey, girl, whatever.
8:53
And I don't know if you guys ever seen the show The Good Place.
8:56
So the not a girl.
8:58
I do that all the time.
9:00
Like, hey girl, I'm like, not a girl moving on. Like.
9:02
And then I just roll right by it.
9:03
And, And she came and she was like, can we talk?
9:07
And I was like.
9:08
And I went in
9:09
and I initially got frustrated with her because it was very much like,
9:12
well, I don't see what the problem is and I don't understand.
9:15
And instead it led to this really great conversation about
9:19
that's the same piece of like, well, I'm really old
9:22
and, you know, I'm kind of set in my ways and this is how I do things.
9:26
And that's what I initially heard.
9:27
And then it was, I am older, I'm not practiced at this.
9:31
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I don't know what to do.
9:34
And that was this really wonderful moment.
9:38
And it's funny because she's retired now and she comes back
9:41
and she subs for my class every summer because I don't work in the summers.
9:45
But having those moments of really big connection of like,
9:49
this is what it means for somebody who's not fitting your norm.
9:54
Yeah, right.
9:55
And I'm just one person, but this is what it's like the emotional part of it.
9:59
Right?
9:59
And I remember saying saying something to her along lines of like, look,
10:03
if I was transgender, this would be like, I'm under the umbrella.
10:06
We'd be like, I'm under the umbrella, but blah, blah.
10:08
You know?
10:08
And I was like, if I was just transgender, I was, you know,
10:12
female to male or whatever, this would be a different conversation.
10:15
But the underlying thing is still the same.
10:17
If you were binary, if you were a binary, yeah, yeah.
10:20
But the underlying thing is still the same.
10:22
I'm asking you to see who I am telling you I am, instead of who you have decided
10:27
because of what society has told you I am.
10:30
Yeah. And how are you? So go ahead.
10:35
Interesting enough that you
10:36
said that none of them feel right for you.
10:40
So if you were to make up.
10:45
So there are ones right the as Z.
10:48
And I think maybe those are like old school.
10:50
There's people go buy it.
10:52
People go buy per and purse. No.
10:56
So you don't.
10:58
So that's that's that's part of the problem for you
11:00
is that there's not one that truly you feel fits you.
11:03
Can you explain that a little bit more?
11:08
Yes, I'm trying to.
11:11
I have this moment where I'm like, don't be politically incorrect, but that it is.
11:15
It's unscripted.
11:15
It's unscripted, and it's not really.
11:17
It's just I'm very cautious about, you know, two,
11:21
spirit is a very specific thing to Native American culture, which is culture,
11:25
and I don't I have a very hard time because I don't want to step on it at all.
11:29
But the word to spirit to me is like, that's it.
11:32
I'm not one or the other.
11:33
I'm both mixed in between and like, finger painted all into one big thing.
11:38
And so, you know, my daughter often, you know, just she grew up with us.
11:43
She, she came to us when she was about seven.
11:45
And so she's always will.
11:48
Are you a boy or a girl?
11:49
And I'm like, I'm not either one, sweetheart.
11:51
Well which one?
11:52
And I was like,
11:53
I mean, more a girl more I said neither, I said, honestly, it's not even either.
11:56
I'm both right.
11:57
And she's like, what is, what do you mean?
12:00
And and so it's, it's this constant.
12:02
And it's funny because I, you know,
12:05
you know, I remember, you know,
12:06
when we were talking about how many kids are going to like,
12:08
be ready to be challenged on every single thing
12:10
that's ever been an issue for you or forget how they phrase it.
12:12
But that kind of peace.
12:13
I was like, yeah, I know, figuring like, oh,
12:15
the figures are from your kid and was like, oh no.
12:17
Here's the trigger of your gender every day.
12:19
Yeah, yeah.
12:20
But it does force you to get there.
12:23
And so anyways, for me, it's that piece of like, I don't have
12:30
a pronoun that encompasses it, all right?
12:33
And it's probably the one of the things that I think
12:37
about even like self-consciously the most often,
12:39
like something will come up and be like, oh, what is it like?
12:41
What is your gender?
12:42
And at the end
12:44
I come to like it doesn't really matter, but it is still that piece of like,
12:48
where, where do you fit on this spectrum alignment?
12:51
And even, you know, it's I remember when I first
12:56
said the
12:56
words like, okay, I am this, this is the word and this word existed.
13:00
It was 96 or something that the word was first coined or something.
13:03
And I was like, wow, if it had been around in 96.
13:06
But I'm like, this is who I have been since I was very little.
13:08
But when I was very little, I have that word. Yeah.
13:11
So I just was like, oh, you want to be a boy?
13:14
Because I don't want to be a girl, right?
13:16
Like girl. And there's only two choices back then.
13:19
Those are the options.
13:20
So it must be that you want to be a boy.
13:22
And, you know, I remember when I was little,
13:24
I got called the f word, I got called, you know?
13:28
Why do you want to be a boy? What's wrong with you?
13:30
Like all of those things. And
13:33
you just have those moments of, like, I don't know.
13:35
Yeah.
13:36
But when. When I got to.
13:39
Okay, I'm non-binary.
13:40
I had a struggle with.
13:43
Okay.
13:43
My belief is nobody is one or the other.
13:47
Everybody is in between.
13:48
Sort of like the same thing I feel about sexuality.
13:50
Right? Nine for the can.
13:52
Not the kidney scale, but the spectrum. Right?
13:54
Nobody is all the way or very few people are one or the other.
13:58
But then it was this whole thing of like, well, you can't do that.
14:03
Yeah.
14:03
Like I can't, I can't turn to somebody and be like, well, there's
14:07
no such thing as being a boy or girl, because then I'm one.
14:10
I'm discounting six people, but I can cope with that
14:13
because I can challenge them whenever I need to, you know?
14:15
But I'm not going to go challenge a trans person who has spent their life
14:19
in the same kind of journey and say, well, you got there, but that's not right.
14:24
You know?
14:25
So it's it's it, it's this constant
14:29
thought process of like, I don't really understand it.
14:31
I just know it doesn't fit to be the other for me.
14:35
And I think that's where people that's how people can find acceptance
14:38
is when they don't try to feel what the other person feels like.
14:43
I tell this all the time, like, don't try to understand
14:46
what it's like being trans because you're not right. All right?
14:48
So you're setting yourself up for failure.
14:50
Like, I don't know what it's like to be,
14:51
you know, born a body that matches my gender identity.
14:53
You're cool and everything, but, you know,
14:55
trans and non-binary people are cooler, but, you know, it's fact.
14:58
It's fact.
14:59
But but what's really
15:00
what really is cool to me and I, and I have to give you props for this,
15:04
is that you're living your authentic life, and it's very brave of you to do that.
15:09
You're not saying they then because you feel like you're,
15:12
you know, a combination of two genders.
15:14
You're saying any pronoun.
15:15
And do you bring that everywhere you go?
15:18
Do you bring that into the workplace?
15:19
Do do your students ask, you know, pronouns like, what do they?
15:23
Do you hate them? Or how old are your students?
15:26
I guess I just want to know a little bit more about that. So.
15:28
So right now I'm I'm with 18 to 22 year olds who are in more severe.
15:32
So heavy okay.
15:33
His own down syndrome and stuff like that.
15:35
So it's not it doesn't come up as much,
15:39
for good or for bad.
15:41
It also coincided with things getting a lot worse.
15:43
You know, we the night that we met or the day we met, we talked about,
15:47
you know, that oppressive feeling of, like, maybe you shouldn't be speaking out.
15:51
Maybe you have to come back and hide a little bit more.
15:55
So I've lucked out. I guess you'd call it.
15:57
I don't really know if that's fair, but in the past I did.
16:02
I did make more conscious effort to.
16:05
I was a, you know, I forget who told me once, well, you're a disrupter.
16:08
I was like, oh, I love that term.
16:10
Yeah. I wouldn't mind being having that title.
16:12
I met with troublemaker for a long time.
16:15
It's more mature. Yeah, right. Yeah.
16:17
Now that I'm older.
16:18
Yeah, but I think my first so I came I didn't come out as,
16:27
I came out as a lesbian first.
16:28
That didn't happen until it first happened.
16:31
So I take that back to what was bisexual.
16:33
When I was like 28, I went out and moved out to Washington
16:35
State to find myself and all of this stuff.
16:37
And as soon as I came out as bisexual, I started dating a guy.
16:41
And then I was like, oh, okay.
16:44
And then it was like broke up and I was like, oh no, you're totally gay.
16:49
And but it was another
16:51
like 3 or 4 years before I finally came out.
16:54
And so I and then I met my wife when I was like 36,
16:58
and I think I was probably 37 or 38 when I said to her,
17:03
I think I'm now binary and it promises go somewhere.
17:09
So the way that happened was
17:12
so I got I got sick, I had cancer, and I had went through
17:16
stem cell transplant and that's they were going to lose your hair.
17:20
So I shaved my head off and it was really funny the night we did it.
17:23
First I did a mohawk and I was like, oh, loved it.
17:26
And I did like just
17:27
it was just my bangs where he was like, I should leave him like that.
17:30
And then we shaved it completely and I loved it. Whatever.
17:32
But then I just never went back to longer hair, and I was just like,
17:36
oh, and I, you know, my wife is very much she's very femme.
17:40
She loves spending women like very attracted to that.
17:43
So I kept saying was like, you sure?
17:44
She's like, no, I like your short hair. It's good. Whatever.
17:46
So, and then towards the end of that year, my GSA
17:50
that I was a part of, we were having prom, and I was like, who's going to prom?
17:55
None of them. Oh, well.
17:57
And I was like, why aren't you going to go to prom?
17:59
And they were like, well, because, like, I don't want to deal with people
18:03
giving me a hard time if I want to dance with a girl or I went into a board,
18:07
you know, and a couple of them were like, there's no way of the girls.
18:12
I will say girls all the time.
18:14
Most of them are not now or multiple anyways.
18:17
I'm not a girl or I'm not going to wear a dress.
18:20
I don't want to wear a dress.
18:21
You can't make it.
18:22
I was like,
18:22
you don't have to wear a dress to go to prom, but you can wear whatever the heck
18:26
you want. It's your prom.
18:29
And I was like, you know,
18:30
I think I don't know if I said it them like, we're not at a public school
18:33
where anyone's going to give you a hard time.
18:34
Like, we're at an alternative school. We all get we're different.
18:37
Yeah, yeah.
18:39
And so I went out with my wife.
18:42
I said, I want to do this for them,
18:44
and I think I was doing it for myself as much as. Right.
18:46
So I went out and got these bright orange pants and suspenders
18:50
and a men's button down shirt with a turquoise bow tie.
18:54
Oh, wow.
18:54
Wow. Color the whole hat.
18:57
It was so wonderful.
18:58
Was that one of the first times that you allowed yourself the first time?
19:01
I mean, I always dressed jeans and a t shirt.
19:03
I was always kind of.
19:05
And, and sneakers.
19:07
I was just sort of been my uniform since, I don't know, fourth grade, maybe,
19:12
but it was the first time.
19:13
Yeah. Really dressed up when I got saddle shoes that I loved.
19:16
Oh, wow. Yeah. And I was so comfortable.
19:19
And I was like, everyone was like, you look so great, blah, blah.
19:22
And then I was
19:23
I don't know how much later it was that I said to my wife, I think I'm a binary.
19:28
And she was just so supportive, you know?
19:30
So it was like.
19:34
I was going somewhere and I lost it.
19:35
But basically, I've been very much in every school
19:39
I go to, like very much a disrupter in that way.
19:42
Like once I saw that those kids were in a space of like,
19:45
I'm not I'm not comfortable.
19:47
Yeah.
19:47
You know, that's when I started saying it being louder about it.
19:51
Yeah.
19:52
Because once they see,
19:53
I mean, you're you're a perfect example of just being free and being authentic.
19:57
They need to see that.
19:58
Kids need to see that in every school.
20:00
You know, that they can see their future.
20:02
It's so important for them to know that they can live a life
20:06
where they can just be, and it takes so much pressure off of them.
20:09
So thank you for doing that.
20:10
That's and it's not an easy thing to do.
20:12
I mean, I know that times have changed from way back when, but being an educator
20:16
and not being a a cookie cutter educator, you know, straight,
20:21
you know, is still not really welcomed.
20:25
Right?
20:26
And I think I lucked out because I again, I taught at alternative schools,
20:30
taught at outplacement schools, where it was a little easier for me to be like,
20:33
hey, you know, and step up to people and, and but I did a lot of times
20:38
it was like, I'm let me take the heat for this issue.
20:41
Let me be the one who's going to go out and be like, no, no, no, you
20:45
I told you, I don't like being called lady.
20:49
Don't do that.
20:50
So that let them get mad at me about it so that when the kid
20:53
comes up to them and says, hey, I'm changing my pronouns.
20:56
They've already gotten mad at someone and realize it's not going anywhere.
21:02
I did, you know, I taught one year of public school
21:04
my entire well taught very first year, but I really count that one.
21:09
But I've taught one year, taught public school
21:15
in Connecticut, and that was a very big wake up for me.
21:18
And again, it was later it was only a few years ago.
21:21
So, well, great
21:23
middle school, middle school, seventh grade.
21:25
So when you say I wake up in
21:27
the wake up was not the kids, I was just going to say, yeah.
21:29
Was the adults. Yeah.
21:30
The wakeup was, hey, I want to start a GSA.
21:34
Where everywhere else it was like, okay,
21:36
this was,
21:36
oh, we have to figure out what the form is going to look like,
21:39
and we have to figure it out and is it going to be safe.
21:41
And again, we're getting later on.
21:43
It was after the first presidency
21:46
of awful, you know, and so had kind of kind of gone down that path.
21:50
And it was like okay, well and jumped through this, who jumped through that.
21:53
Who. And
21:57
once we finally got it going
21:59
to me, the idea of using someone's
22:02
pronoun correctly is just a given. Right?
22:05
And I've been at these schools where it became a given very quickly
22:08
because I'm like, no, no, this is what we're doing.
22:10
And also in spaces of like,
22:15
I would always we'd have this thing of like,
22:18
there's a speaker I don't remember,
22:21
I don't remember the name, but
22:23
they said they used the phrase, don't say please don't say gay to me, stupid.
22:29
I know you know myself and a lot of people who are very smart
22:32
and I forget the exact phrase, used it and so on.
22:35
But I would use that phrase all the time when I heard a kid use that term.
22:39
But like in this public school, I had a whole conversation with
22:44
with one of the deans, and
22:47
we were talking about the n word and the F word,
22:50
and I was like,
22:53
and they said I would never tell a black student they can't use the N-word.
22:59
And I said, well, I would,
23:01
but I would only tell them they can't use it here because
23:05
and it would require a conversation of, you have to know who's around you
23:10
and know that it's not about what the white people are feeling,
23:13
but you might mean something other black people,
23:16
and you also don't know what you're teaching other people.
23:18
And anyways, but then he was like, well, I wouldn't.
23:20
I was like, okay, well, so would you, would you stop a black kid from you
23:25
and the N-word? He was like, no.
23:27
I was like, okay, well, would you stop a gay kid from using the f word?
23:32
And he was like, of course I would.
23:33
I was like, wait.
23:34
Anyway,
23:35
I'm like, this is I'm like, these are not.
23:37
Let me be clear, this is not the same thing
23:39
I said, but these are similar things.
23:41
And, and I, I've tried to remember I think he said something like,
23:46
look, as an educator, let me trust me that there is a there is,
23:50
you know, there is a big difference.
23:51
And I said, well, as a gay person, no there's not.
23:55
And, and but that moment to me of like, we're not we're going to make these
24:00
separations and not there just hadn't been this thought process of it.
24:03
And then when we finally did start the GSA, I had so many kids,
24:07
because my GSA is were always, what do you want to do?
24:10
We can sit here and play games and just hang out.
24:12
You can ask me questions.
24:13
I'll do my best to answer them.
24:14
We can, you know, do fundraising.
24:17
We can do, you know, knowledge campaigns.
24:20
And I did all of them at some point.
24:22
But at the school it was just like, well, can you get the teachers
24:25
to do something about the kids saying, saying gay and calling me gay?
24:29
And I was like, wait, who's calling you gay?
24:32
And because at the school that was they was defined.
24:35
This is hate language. You should be suspended.
24:37
And kids weren't getting suspended.
24:39
They were just getting pulled out in the hall and talked to.
24:42
And then it would happen again.
24:44
And it was just mind boggling to me.
24:47
The shift.
24:47
And it was one of the reasons I was like,
24:49
I get to step back because it was hard for me
24:53
to be in this space of like,
24:55
I know this is happening to kids who are like me.
24:58
I remember what it was like for me to be called this,
25:01
and I at least I couldn't even say, hey, don't be saying that to somebody,
25:04
because the teacher wouldn't even listen to me, right?
25:06
Right.
25:07
But it was just.
25:09
And this was just a few years ago.
25:10
Yeah. I'm telling you, I was.
25:11
I just trained to school last year, and I brought that up and they were like,
25:15
yeah, we still here.
25:16
That's so gay. More than ever.
25:19
I thought maybe it went away a little bit, but it's still very there.
25:23
And they, they said, you know, sometimes we don't hear it.
25:27
A lot of times it said when we can't hear it, you know,
25:30
I don't know if that was the truth, but, you know, I think it's the
25:33
there is a space of we don't hear it, let's push it over here.
25:37
It because it's not offensive to you.
25:39
And and I don't mean that in a way of like they're like, I don't care.
25:42
It's just like, I am going to hear it everywhere I go.
25:46
Yeah, yeah, right. It's going to be amplified.
25:47
Yeah. It's going to be amplified for sure.
25:50
Yeah, yeah.
25:51
But I but having to, to try and talk to people
25:54
and like you got to start trying to hear it.
25:57
Yeah. It's just that space of it's not okay.
26:00
And I would be in a room like I would go in.
26:02
So it's like a resource teacher.
26:04
So I'd go into the classroom sometimes and
26:07
I'd be in there
26:08
and I kid would say it, I'm right next to him.
26:12
Yeah.
26:12
That's okay. I'd be like, what you just say.
26:15
And they, they look at me like, oh, I didn't miss.
26:17
I didn't mean it like that.
26:19
And I was like, well, number one is mixed, but that's a whole other.
26:21
It's a hot topic.
26:22
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
26:23
But even that, that was a, you know,
26:26
nobody at that school ever thought to ask.
26:29
So I got to school that first day.
26:30
And they'd been in the district to you before as an equity coach.
26:33
But that was a whole that was tough.
26:35
But I got there and my door said Miss Dennehy.
26:39
And I was like, so I went and I fixed it, but the X on it or whatever.
26:43
And then one of the deans came up
26:44
and to her credit, as soon as she saw it, she was like, even give it to me.
26:49
And she went and she just completely fixed it.
26:51
Oh good, good good good.
26:52
So there are people like,
26:53
there was definitely people there who have gotten the message of the trainings
26:57
that have happened over the last ten years or whatever, and they lean into it.
27:02
But I think there are a lot of people who still just,
27:03
well, they need to go right over, you know?
27:05
Yeah, but you know what?
27:07
Here's the deal with the people that are leading the teams, like,
27:09
you know, this person that came and fix it and let me fix it.
27:11
They have to set the tone and they can't.
27:13
They if somebody does something that's not right, they need to call them out on it.
27:18
If they continue to do what they need to out them, you know, that's it.
27:20
You can't work here anymore. You know what I mean?
27:21
So I do hold a lot of responsibility to to the principals and the vice principals,
27:26
and, you know, the people that are really running the schools
27:29
to hold people accountable,
27:30
because a lot of times it's not everybody's like,
27:32
oh, it's coming from the students know sometimes it's
27:34
coming from the educators or the staff, you know, you know,
27:37
they said it was a study, but kids said it.
27:41
And this was nearly that I heard it is kids know who to bully because of.
27:45
They watched the teachers to figure out yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:48
So the kids know and, you know, I was just read a thing.
27:52
It was very quickly I want to learn more about it.
27:54
And you know, people that are kind of starting to challenge,
27:56
challenge the conflict concept of implicit bias.
28:00
Because implicit implies that you you'd have no control over it.
28:04
Right?
28:05
There is, you know, with paying,
28:07
you know, doing a little knowledge and a little research and a little effort.
28:10
This doesn't have to be implicit.
28:13
But that, that space of like.
28:17
I kind of lost my train of thought, just that piece of like, wait a minute.
28:20
Maybe we need to pay more attention.
28:22
Yeah, and maybe we need to step into it a little deeper. Yeah, yeah.
28:25
So your first day of school, you're you're teaching, I'm assuming this year.
28:29
And when is that?
28:30
I, I go back on the 26th.
28:32
Students, I think students come back in the 31st.
28:35
My daughter starts in the 31st. So I'm just.
28:37
Yeah, a lot of them are starting out.
28:39
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
28:40
So what do we got to wrap this up.
28:42
But one question is like what are you looking.
28:44
What are you looking forward to for this year?
28:46
What are you hoping for?
28:48
I'm actually well, I'm always looking forward to my kids.
28:50
They're just fun and seeing just the growth they make.
28:54
It's sometimes hard because, you know, they make little smaller steps.
28:57
But I really do enjoy we can do that.
28:59
And I'm looking forward to kind of diving back in.
29:02
It was a stressful year.
29:03
I think between the way the world is and kind of home stuff and everything
29:06
kind of I didn't have my my best year ever.
29:08
I'm just really excited to kind of go in and really work
29:13
on doing my
29:14
best with my, with my staff and, and with the other staff in the building.
29:17
And we have a Di committee that this is
29:20
this is great year together as a and it's wonderful.
29:22
And we all get together when it's, you know, not going great.
29:24
And we're like, what are we going to do to change things.
29:27
You know.
29:27
And so it's kind of, well, I got to tell you,
29:29
your students are so lucky to have you.
29:32
And thank you to say, yeah, just for that,
29:35
we've got to spend some time with you.
29:36
Yeah. You're awesome. Yeah.
29:37
Making some some differences out there in the world.
29:39
So thank you so much for all that you're doing.
29:41
Thank you so much for being with us.
29:42
Yes. Anytime.
29:44
This was really fun.
29:45
Okay. We'll hold you to that. Yeah.
29:48
Thanks to everyone for joining us. And we'll see you next time.