Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / LET'S MAKE A DEAL: Much-maligned C Logan O'Hoppe, RHP Chase Silseth are traded to Texas Rangers

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LET'S MAKE A DEAL: Much-maligned C Logan O'Hoppe, RHP Chase Silseth are traded to Texas Rangers · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Hell, Hey Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: I am Mike d. Giovanna, former Ella Times Baseball writer
0:14
Speaker 1: and host of the show, joined by Mark Trumbo, our
0:17
Speaker 1: regular co host and the former Angel slugger. And back
0:20
Speaker 1: with us again is Sam Blum of The Athletic. Great
0:23
Speaker 1: to have you back, Sam, appreciate you joining us today.
0:27
Speaker 2: It is great to be back, and thank you for
0:29
Speaker 2: having me.
0:30
Speaker 3: All right.
0:30
Speaker 1: So, the Angels kicked off trade deadline season Wednesday night
0:34
Speaker 1: by sending reliever Chase Silseth and underachieving catcher Logan Ohappy
0:39
Speaker 1: to the Texas Rangers for a low A infielder named
0:42
Speaker 1: Angel Aredondo. Sil Sith has been pretty solid this season.
0:47
Speaker 1: A young righty with plenty of club control left he
0:50
Speaker 1: had a two point seven to two e er and
0:52
Speaker 1: forty seven games while O Hopi struggled through his second
0:55
Speaker 1: straight awful seasons on both sides of the ball.
0:59
Speaker 3: Now.
0:59
Speaker 1: Aridondo was a nineteen year old third basement He's played
1:01
Speaker 1: a little shortstop, right handed hitter. He hit two forty
1:05
Speaker 1: seven with a seven sixty nine ops, eight homers and
1:07
Speaker 1: forty seven RBIs in eighty six games for low A Hickory,
1:12
Speaker 1: but he was not ranked among the Rangers' top thirty
1:15
Speaker 1: prospects by either Baseball America or MLB Pipeline. Let's hear
1:20
Speaker 1: what interim Angel GM John Mozeylock had to say about
1:25
Speaker 1: this trade.
1:26
Speaker 3: You know, like we enter this training period, one of
1:28
Speaker 3: the things we are focused on his understanding change. Clearly
1:32
Speaker 3: where the Angels are at right now, we need to
1:34
Speaker 3: do some things differently, and you know, we are trying
1:39
Speaker 3: to balance how to focus on the future short term
1:42
Speaker 3: and long term. But this deal here allows us to
1:46
Speaker 3: free up some spots on our active roster, change some
1:51
Speaker 3: of the playing time, and then also adding a young
1:54
Speaker 3: player to our system that we're excited about who when
1:58
Speaker 3: I look at his profile, he's a plus defender, he
2:03
Speaker 3: has a bathtball skill that's a plus, so contact rate
2:07
Speaker 3: high and just overall summer he is he's a good
2:10
Speaker 3: baseball player. So at that time of good questions with.
2:15
Speaker 4: The I mean he was and he's struggle a lot
2:17
Speaker 4: for the last two years and they have been, you know,
2:19
Speaker 4: one of the topien players on this team for a while.
2:21
Speaker 4: I'm curious when you evaluated him over the last few weeks,
2:25
Speaker 4: how did you do you sense that there was, you know,
2:28
Speaker 4: a pathway to get him back to that, or that
2:30
Speaker 4: it was maybe not going to happen here.
2:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought in his case, the best thing for
2:36
Speaker 3: him would be a change of scenery. Obviously, when you
2:38
Speaker 3: think about catchers, you sort of focus on two things, right,
2:42
Speaker 3: the ability to catch, throw, call a game from actual
2:46
Speaker 3: defensive standpoint, and then the opposite side of that would
2:50
Speaker 3: be the offensive skill set. And I think he was
2:53
Speaker 3: really struggling and putting a lot of pressure on both
2:55
Speaker 3: sides of the ball, and I think this is really
2:57
Speaker 3: tough to balance and at the end try to get
3:01
Speaker 3: him playing time for us? Was it difficult? And I
3:04
Speaker 3: just think giving him a new place to go play
3:06
Speaker 3: and be forced to do things a little differently for
3:09
Speaker 3: him will be good. But I don't want to speak
3:11
Speaker 3: on his behalf. But for us, we know we have
3:16
Speaker 3: to start shaking up this roster.
3:18
Speaker 4: And today was day one.
3:20
Speaker 3: D'arnault and Kineman are both older guys. So who do
3:24
Speaker 3: you see among your younger catchers that you would like
3:26
Speaker 3: to know more? Well, I think the answer right now
3:30
Speaker 3: is as we think to the future, you know that
3:33
Speaker 3: might be something that we have to outside the organization
3:35
Speaker 3: on the short view, and will obviously be open to that.
3:39
Speaker 3: But you know, clearly when we look at the next
3:43
Speaker 3: few days and if there's the ability to try to
3:46
Speaker 3: add some depth to that, and I think would be
3:48
Speaker 3: in our customers.
3:49
Speaker 1: What do you guys like about Parandonma specifically? That is
3:52
Speaker 1: a different organization.
3:55
Speaker 3: Just as overall baseball profile, you know, obviously really good
3:59
Speaker 3: with the it's the side of the ball, as I mentioned,
4:03
Speaker 3: really plus plus like ball to bat skill. I think
4:07
Speaker 3: this day age you see a lot of swing and miss.
4:09
Speaker 3: You see, you know, the that sort of decision where
4:12
Speaker 3: you're swinging for home versus strikeouts and that internal debate.
4:17
Speaker 3: So it's just like the overall summary of him was
4:20
Speaker 3: he was just a good baseball player, and I think
4:22
Speaker 3: like adding those types of players is good. And so
4:26
Speaker 3: you know, in our system he's probably in the top
4:28
Speaker 3: head in prospects. I know he wasn't getting a lot
4:31
Speaker 3: of third party recognition in this process, but I do
4:34
Speaker 3: think he's a better player than he's getting recognized for him.
4:40
Speaker 1: All right, So Sammy, your colleague at the Athletic Levi Weaver,
4:44
Speaker 1: gave the Rangers an A minus and the Angels a D.
4:47
Speaker 1: Plus for this trade. You gave the Angels a B
4:50
Speaker 1: plus and the Rangers and a minus for the deal.
4:53
Speaker 1: Why the descriptancy?
4:56
Speaker 2: Well, I know, I think mozay loack like he saw
4:58
Speaker 2: me after the game, and I think he said, deep us,
5:00
Speaker 2: like he thought I gave him that great So I
5:01
Speaker 2: don't know. Anyway, my thinking on this is like one,
5:06
Speaker 2: I actually think the Angels, like getting off of a
5:08
Speaker 2: Hoppy's contract is probably ultimately like part of this. I
5:12
Speaker 2: don't really think that they met Mozilla like viewed him
5:15
Speaker 2: as part of their future. I mean, he basically said
5:17
Speaker 2: he was pretty critical right there. I mean, if you
5:19
Speaker 2: listen to it, he's basically said he didn't play well
5:21
Speaker 2: on either side of the ball, wasn't really gonna play
5:24
Speaker 2: for them anymore, So they get rid of the contract.
5:28
Speaker 2: You know, Chase Silseth had decent numbers. I think you
5:32
Speaker 2: look kind of blow the surface a little bit. There's
5:33
Speaker 2: not like it's a lot of walks fits a little
5:35
Speaker 2: higher than the era so long injury history. I think
5:39
Speaker 2: he was running out of options, so like it just
5:41
Speaker 2: are there these guys really part of your future. I
5:43
Speaker 2: don't really look at this as a big return deal
5:45
Speaker 2: as more as it is just kind of like moving
5:47
Speaker 2: away from a HOPI maybe and moving on to the
5:49
Speaker 2: next phase here. And that's why I gave him a
5:51
Speaker 2: better grade. I'm just like, it's good there, we're subtracting. Here,
5:54
Speaker 2: they're restarting a little bit. I feel like that's an
5:56
Speaker 2: important part of this process. The prospect they got back
5:59
Speaker 2: I think by all the counts as like a lotto ticket, right,
6:03
Speaker 2: So you know, if we ever see him in the
6:04
Speaker 2: big leagues is great. If not, I don't think it's
6:07
Speaker 2: the end of the world. I think that it's more
6:08
Speaker 2: about moving to the next thing, and you know, it's
6:11
Speaker 2: a little where where you do it in division. But
6:12
Speaker 2: I also like, wouldn't get too hung up on that.
6:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mark, what are the angels getting in this? Angel?
6:17
Speaker 5: Aradundo a young man nineteen years old. He's a plus defender.
6:26
Speaker 5: Don't want to just puppet exactly what Mo said, But
6:30
Speaker 5: I looked I like this swing. I watched as much
6:33
Speaker 5: video as I could find. It seems to have a
6:35
Speaker 5: repeatable swing. The knocks on him are going to be
6:38
Speaker 5: a lack of exit velocities currently and he is a
6:43
Speaker 5: below average runner. Watched enough clips seeing him running down
6:48
Speaker 5: the line that there's nothing spectacular about that. Apparently his
6:53
Speaker 5: defense is well above average, capable of playing all of
6:57
Speaker 5: the infield positions, and is a very young player playing
7:02
Speaker 5: in the professional ranks in Mexico. So that tells me
7:06
Speaker 5: his makeup must be good enough to handle the pressure.
7:11
Speaker 5: And I think, like Sam said, making sense of this,
7:15
Speaker 5: if you're just going to grade the players, it's going
7:18
Speaker 5: to look well like the and I think the Rangers
7:21
Speaker 5: well from what I hear, they think they did quite
7:23
Speaker 5: well and rightfully. So however, Ohapi is what's he making
7:29
Speaker 5: this year? Two million, six hundred and twenty five thousand.
7:32
Speaker 5: There's a figure arraysed next year, if tendered, could be
7:37
Speaker 5: north of four million dollars, and so that starts to
7:40
Speaker 5: get pretty expensive for a guy that has struggled to produce.
7:44
Speaker 5: I think, listening to Mo his comments there, his comments
7:47
Speaker 5: on the broadcast too, it's had the struggling to find
7:50
Speaker 5: him consistent playing time. Perimin Asia never struggled to find
7:54
Speaker 5: him playing time. Maybe what do you think do you
7:58
Speaker 5: think that that's just a different people evaluating the talent?
8:02
Speaker 1: Mike, I don't know that whole comment, having a little
8:05
Speaker 1: confused because the Angels if they really wanted to keep
8:07
Speaker 1: Logan ho hoppy, he has got options left. They could
8:10
Speaker 1: have easily sent them down a triple A and hey, kid,
8:13
Speaker 1: figure it out. You know, you got whatever you're doing
8:15
Speaker 1: here ain't working. You got to figure it out down there.
8:18
Speaker 1: So you know already has pinch pennies with some of
8:23
Speaker 1: these deals in the past. I can't see Logan o'happy's
8:26
Speaker 1: contract as being a money dump. It's just not enough money.
8:30
Speaker 1: So yeah, I thought the whole deal was a little
8:32
Speaker 1: odd from that perspective. I just think it was an
8:36
Speaker 1: addition by subtraction trade. I think Moe had he's seen
8:41
Speaker 1: what o'happy is right here, and he does not think
8:44
Speaker 1: o'hapy is part of this team's long term future. Now
8:47
Speaker 1: where the Aridondo kid should grade out, of course, is
8:50
Speaker 1: open to some debate. JJ Cooper of Baseball America actually
8:54
Speaker 1: had a pretty good interesting tweet after the deal said
8:59
Speaker 1: Angel Arredondo did not rank in the Baseball America Rangers
9:03
Speaker 1: top thirty at the time of the trade. Sometimes when
9:06
Speaker 1: a trade happens, you check with sources to make sure
9:08
Speaker 1: you didn't miss something on a guy who should have ranked.
9:12
Speaker 1: We've checked. This does not appear to be one of
9:15
Speaker 1: those times. And Jim Bowden on Foul Territory Network also
9:19
Speaker 1: had an analysis of Aradondo on the Foul Territory Territory
9:24
Speaker 1: Network Today. Let's hear what he had to say.
9:26
Speaker 6: In return, all the Angels get as a nineteen year
9:28
Speaker 6: old fringe prospect named angel Aaron Dondo. This is a
9:33
Speaker 6: young Mexican third baseman. He's nineteen years old. He's a
9:36
Speaker 6: good defender at third base. He's got a good strong arm.
9:40
Speaker 6: He's got a good approach at the plate, but the
9:43
Speaker 6: bat is very, very fringy. Not because of the approach.
9:46
Speaker 6: He doesn't chase, and he's had a decent year. He's
9:50
Speaker 6: playing at Hickory in the Carolina League. Seven decent years,
9:52
Speaker 6: sitting two forty seven, but has been on base thirty
9:55
Speaker 6: seven percent of the time because of the approach. He
9:57
Speaker 6: does have eight homers in forty seven RBIs what concerns
10:01
Speaker 6: me though with the bat is there's no impact, very
10:05
Speaker 6: very little batspeed, not great exitblocities coming off the bat
10:10
Speaker 6: as well, and that normally doesn't profile to a big leaguer.
10:14
Speaker 6: Now I'm gonna call him a fringe prospect. I will
10:17
Speaker 6: say he's probably now in the Angels top thirty prospects
10:21
Speaker 6: probably makes sense, but not much better than that. So
10:24
Speaker 6: it's fringy at best. So when I look at it,
10:27
Speaker 6: I understand the Texas part of it. I gotta have
10:29
Speaker 6: a reliever. They got a good one. I love that part.
10:32
Speaker 6: They had to take on some money with Logan Ohapi
10:35
Speaker 6: to get it done, but worth it because they left
10:37
Speaker 6: only making seven fifty grand. But on the other side,
10:40
Speaker 6: I didn't like it for the Angels. I like the
10:41
Speaker 6: fact they did something, but I didn't like the fact
10:44
Speaker 6: they didn't get more. And look, I guess the savings
10:47
Speaker 6: of Ohapi's money maybe motivated it. We'll have to see
10:51
Speaker 6: what else they do, but I think it was kind
10:53
Speaker 6: of a disappointing deal. First deal for John Mozelok running
10:56
Speaker 6: the Angels. Look, bottom line tray is this. I gave
11:00
Speaker 6: Texas a clear bit, it's a nice trade, and I
11:03
Speaker 6: gave the Angels a C plus or at least trying
11:05
Speaker 6: to do something.
11:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with Jim there. I think
11:12
Speaker 1: it's gonna be hard. I don't think we can judge
11:14
Speaker 1: this deal on its own. It's going to be part
11:15
Speaker 1: of a you know, a couple of deals that we
11:18
Speaker 1: see over the next few days. But if you know
11:21
Speaker 1: you could almost make this, you could have probably made
11:24
Speaker 1: a sill Seth for Aredondo trade straight up. What I'd
11:27
Speaker 1: be curious about is like, did the Rangers ask for
11:31
Speaker 1: o'hapi or the Angels say, we'll make this deal if
11:34
Speaker 1: you include o'hapy. Bear in mind that the Rangers starting
11:39
Speaker 1: two opening day catchers are both on the injured list,
11:42
Speaker 1: so they do have some depth issues there. The first
11:45
Speaker 1: thing they did with Logan was demote them to triple
11:48
Speaker 1: A round rocks, so I think that says a lot too.
11:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing that I'm
11:55
Speaker 2: curious about is what does this mean for what does
11:57
Speaker 2: Moseelic do the next you know, one hundred hours or
12:00
Speaker 2: over many hours toil the deadline, Because to me, it
12:03
Speaker 2: says we're changing this. At least that's like the players
12:07
Speaker 2: that were Perry's guys are not safe right now on
12:10
Speaker 2: this team. I think you might. I think you're seeing
12:13
Speaker 2: that across the board. I'd be curious to see what
12:14
Speaker 2: does that mean for like a Nolan Shanawall, what does
12:16
Speaker 2: that mean? For a Zach Netto, what does that mean?
12:19
Speaker 2: For Joe Odell obviously came in before Perry, but I
12:21
Speaker 2: mean a lot of these guys who just continuously, as
12:24
Speaker 2: Mark said, got trances under perrymana and are just not
12:27
Speaker 2: gonna have that luxury moving forward here. And so yeah,
12:31
Speaker 2: I mean this trade was surprising, but I think the
12:34
Speaker 2: Logan O Happy era was coming to an end one
12:36
Speaker 2: way or the other here, and this gives him an
12:38
Speaker 2: off ramp, and you know, he needs to go earn
12:41
Speaker 2: his career back. I think we've seen him be a
12:42
Speaker 2: better player than he is, but it's right now not
12:45
Speaker 2: a big league caliber player, and I think he needs
12:48
Speaker 2: to and he would probably be the first to say
12:49
Speaker 2: that needs to go figure that out to get back
12:51
Speaker 2: to the big leagues because it's the Rangers do come
12:54
Speaker 2: to town in about two weeks and be curious see if
12:56
Speaker 2: he's on the big league roster with them.
12:58
Speaker 1: All Right, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll
12:59
Speaker 1: be right back with more. We're gonna talk a little
13:02
Speaker 1: about Logan Hoppy oh Happy as well. We'll be right back.
13:05
Speaker 7: There is one place to be on Trede deadline day
13:09
Speaker 7: watching foul territory, of course, A J Perdinski aeric Kratz
13:12
Speaker 7: and Scott Brown will be live all afternoon speaking with insiders,
13:16
Speaker 7: reading tea leaves and reacting to unfolding deadline drama. Join
13:20
Speaker 7: us on the FT YouTube channel at one pm ET
13:23
Speaker 7: and stay locked in through the six pm deadline next Monday.
13:27
Speaker 7: Foul Territory Network, It's baseball the way it should be covered.
13:33
Speaker 1: And Welcome back to Halo Territory with Mark Trumbo, Sam
13:35
Speaker 1: Blum and Mike d g Yvon. I do want to
13:37
Speaker 1: say one more thing about Aredondo. The prospect, the fringe
13:42
Speaker 1: prospect in the eyes of many beauty is often in
13:46
Speaker 1: the the beholder with these kids. My hunch what happened
13:49
Speaker 1: here most likely is there's an Angel scout that is
13:53
Speaker 1: really high on this Aredondo kid, and he convinced Mo
13:56
Speaker 1: that the Angel should acquire him. Go back to twenty
14:00
Speaker 1: five years the Angels had a scout named Dale Sutherland,
14:03
Speaker 1: who was the brother of Gary Sutherland, who was Bill
14:06
Speaker 1: Stoweman's right hand man. Back in the summer of two thousand,
14:11
Speaker 1: the Red Sox put a middle infielder on waivers and
14:16
Speaker 1: this kid was He had no power. He was so
14:20
Speaker 1: undersized he could barely make the throw across the diamond
14:23
Speaker 1: from shortstop. But Dale Sutherland loved this kid. Hey, we
14:27
Speaker 1: got to claim this kid. The Angels claimed him. That
14:31
Speaker 1: kid turned out to be none other than David xteye
14:33
Speaker 1: in the leadoff batter and shortstop and spark plug him
14:36
Speaker 1: the Angel's only World Series champion team in two thousand
14:39
Speaker 1: and two. I'm not saying this is gonna happen with Aradondo.
14:43
Speaker 1: I'm just saying opinions vary when it comes to these kids,
14:47
Speaker 1: especially when they're nineteen. So it's gonna take a little
14:50
Speaker 1: time to see how he pans out. Now, Logan o'hapi,
14:54
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with Mo more that he needed a
14:58
Speaker 1: change of scenery. This kid was a solid player, as
15:01
Speaker 1: we remember when he got acquired for Philly for Brandon
15:05
Speaker 1: Marsh in twenty two. He had really solid seasons in
15:08
Speaker 1: twenty three and twenty four, and then last season he
15:12
Speaker 1: had a six to twenty nine ops and this season
15:16
Speaker 1: five sixty five ops, four homers in seventy five games,
15:21
Speaker 1: and his defense regressed just as poorly. I asked manager
15:26
Speaker 1: Kurt Suzuki after last night Wednesday Night's game, if I
15:31
Speaker 1: don't know for you guys and Sam may have a
15:33
Speaker 1: better handle on this because he's covered him longer. I
15:35
Speaker 1: just felt like Logan's struggles were eating him up mentally,
15:39
Speaker 1: and once he loses that confidence, it just sort of
15:41
Speaker 1: compounded the problems. But let's hear what Kurt had to say,
15:46
Speaker 1: just follow up on Logan. How much were his struggles
15:48
Speaker 1: sort of eating him up mentally and how much did
15:50
Speaker 1: that sort of contribute to those struggles continue.
15:54
Speaker 8: This is a cREL game. It's a it's a really
15:56
Speaker 8: hard game, and you have to run a staff which
15:59
Speaker 8: is even hard.
16:00
Speaker 2: And I hear it which is extremely hard.
16:02
Speaker 8: So it's you know, it's it's really tough on you mentally,
16:05
Speaker 8: and they can grind you. And you know, as a
16:08
Speaker 8: younger player, and as you get more time to get
16:10
Speaker 8: you know, more experience and you kind of get through
16:13
Speaker 8: those those tough parts and you learn from them and
16:16
Speaker 8: get better from home.
16:19
Speaker 1: Now, Mark and Sam, whoever wants to go first, Why
16:22
Speaker 1: do you think Logan struggles so much these past seasons
16:25
Speaker 1: And will he ever become a starting catcher in the
16:29
Speaker 1: big leagues again?
16:32
Speaker 5: Pull Marco, Well, I don't know he'll be given the
16:39
Speaker 5: opportunity to do so. He was demoted to triple A
16:42
Speaker 5: I think that that was something that there was a
16:45
Speaker 5: big fear factor from what I gather of that happening
16:50
Speaker 5: with this team, the Angels, and they ended up never
16:54
Speaker 5: never doing it. Chris Young and the Rangers immediately do it.
16:57
Speaker 5: Maybe they got enough info or it's just where they see.
17:02
Speaker 5: His current talent evaluation is that of a tripa a player.
17:08
Speaker 5: I think he's got to. The decline on defense is
17:13
Speaker 5: intriguing to me. You don't see that as much guys
17:16
Speaker 5: generally you know what you're going to get. Gary Sanchez
17:19
Speaker 5: comes to mind. Poor defender. I never really improved all
17:22
Speaker 5: that much, but the value was always tied to the
17:25
Speaker 5: big bat, and Logan had some success twenty home runs.
17:30
Speaker 5: I think he had nineteen. One of the other years,
17:32
Speaker 5: the ops never was outstanding with enough at bats to qualify.
17:38
Speaker 5: I think seven to twelve was as high with a
17:40
Speaker 5: full season. But you know that's also very attractive with
17:44
Speaker 5: twenty home run pomp, Where did it go wrong? I
17:48
Speaker 5: can only say that in you know, looking more closely
17:51
Speaker 5: doing the show, especially in the offseason, he took some
17:54
Speaker 5: very poor advice working with his off season instruction. I
17:59
Speaker 5: won't back, you know away from that opinion because I
18:02
Speaker 5: said it, and it's what I see. It was a
18:04
Speaker 5: pole happy chasing exit velocity for a guy that doesn't
18:08
Speaker 5: need to be chasing it. He should have been looking
18:10
Speaker 5: to make himself a more well rounded hitter that has
18:13
Speaker 5: the ability to use the whole field. That totally evaporated.
18:16
Speaker 5: And recently it's back to the dead pole approach, hacking
18:20
Speaker 5: it pitches low and away, trying to hit him I
18:23
Speaker 5: guess over the left field fence, and it just really
18:25
Speaker 5: didn't translate.
18:27
Speaker 1: Sam, you covered this kid all for four years. Here
18:31
Speaker 1: was it? Was it a gradual regression? Did it happen overnight?
18:36
Speaker 1: What do you think now?
18:37
Speaker 2: I mean, literally, you could pinpoint like May whatever that
18:40
Speaker 2: a series was last year. Goes often that a series
18:43
Speaker 2: in middle of May in Sacramento has like fourteen home
18:46
Speaker 2: runs and like six weeks into the season, and I
18:48
Speaker 2: think you finished with nineteen last year, and I don't know,
18:50
Speaker 2: he's got like two this year. It's just like he's
18:52
Speaker 2: got no power. He can't hit it over the wall.
18:54
Speaker 2: And so you know, to Mark's point, you know, I
18:56
Speaker 2: don't know if you know, I trust I trust his
18:58
Speaker 2: opinion on kind of where that came from, that that
19:00
Speaker 2: you know, that complete lack of power, and you know
19:03
Speaker 2: it might be why he was chasing it and the
19:04
Speaker 2: flaws and that approach. Uh, but yeah, I think there
19:07
Speaker 2: has to be a mental element of this. I mean,
19:08
Speaker 2: you know, he's acknowledged that. We've talked about that with
19:11
Speaker 2: him for years now. I mean, just kind of like
19:13
Speaker 2: overthinking stuff for getting anxious, getting in his head. I
19:16
Speaker 2: think Mark's right, he was worried about getting sends a
19:18
Speaker 2: triple A. I don't know what this does, if this
19:20
Speaker 2: fixes that, if there's a pathway for him to fix it,
19:22
Speaker 2: maybe a different organization.
19:24
Speaker 5: Uh.
19:24
Speaker 2: You know, He's had a lot of different catching coaches here,
19:26
Speaker 2: a lot of different people brought into like be his mentor,
19:29
Speaker 2: and none of it's really worked. So to me, like,
19:34
Speaker 2: I don't know what the path forward for him is.
19:36
Speaker 2: I like him. I hope he figures it out. But
19:39
Speaker 2: at the same time, I just like, I think he's
19:42
Speaker 2: got to prove that at the minor league level, and
19:44
Speaker 2: that's like where his career is at right now. He's
19:45
Speaker 2: just like if you go to his baseball savam page,
19:47
Speaker 2: it's blue blue, blue, blue blue. There's nothing, there is
19:49
Speaker 2: nothing there. It's defence, offense, base running, so it's just
19:53
Speaker 2: not good enough. And uh, I hope, hope he figures
19:55
Speaker 2: it out. But you know, this is this is he's
19:57
Speaker 2: no longer Perry's guy who's gonna get chance, Like he's
20:00
Speaker 2: gonna have to go earn his career back. I think
20:02
Speaker 2: and hope it appens for him.
20:04
Speaker 1: Mark, do you think Logan made a mistake by verbalizing
20:06
Speaker 1: so many of his for lack of better word, fears
20:09
Speaker 1: or I don't know if I don't want to say
20:12
Speaker 1: that shows a weakness. But I appreciate his transparency, but
20:17
Speaker 1: that mindset can't be good. I mean, confidence for a
20:21
Speaker 1: major league hitter just seems like paramount. Can you sort
20:25
Speaker 1: of speak to how his mentality, you know, how his
20:28
Speaker 1: mental approach may have compounded his struggles at the plate
20:34
Speaker 1: and behind it.
20:35
Speaker 5: The big leagues is a tough game. I was given
20:38
Speaker 5: the advice it's a grown man's game played by men,
20:41
Speaker 5: and the game today is different than when I broke
20:45
Speaker 5: in as a young player. Was it right? Was it wrong?
20:50
Speaker 5: You tell you you had to be tough, tough mentally,
20:53
Speaker 5: tough physically, you know, stay out of the training room
20:56
Speaker 5: for example. That's for the veterans, very different today. But
21:01
Speaker 5: one thing I've heard is that the teams are in
21:03
Speaker 5: the massive need of more mental performance coaches. That's how
21:06
Speaker 5: bad things have kind of gotten, and bad as in
21:11
Speaker 5: guys are really you know, the pressure, the social media.
21:14
Speaker 5: I don't know what Logan sees himself as as part
21:17
Speaker 5: of the problem. I think every player, at least I
21:21
Speaker 5: can speak for myself. I never thought I was some
21:23
Speaker 5: sort of superstar. I was always fighting to keep my job,
21:28
Speaker 5: to contribute how I was supposed to contribute in the
21:31
Speaker 5: roles I was given. If he sees himself as a premier,
21:35
Speaker 5: all star, top tier best catcher in baseball, it may
21:40
Speaker 5: not be the case, but he's definitely a very gifted ballplayer.
21:44
Speaker 5: I wonder too, maybe you know, he's such a big,
21:46
Speaker 5: physical guy, a little bit too much bulky mass, affecting
21:51
Speaker 5: the mobility with the catching. I think too, for the instructors,
21:55
Speaker 5: they brought in a lot of people to work with him.
21:57
Speaker 5: It's very deflating as a coach to just not be
22:01
Speaker 5: able to get results, to not be able to get
22:02
Speaker 5: through to a guy, and I think that that was
22:05
Speaker 5: part of the case. It sounded like Moe also said
22:07
Speaker 5: that Kurtzuzuki may not have been in love with what
22:10
Speaker 5: he saw as well, being a former catcher, and that's
22:12
Speaker 5: not a joke, and it's actually the only thing that's reasonable.
22:15
Speaker 5: Kurt was a good catcher. He knows what a good
22:17
Speaker 5: catch here looks like. And Logan scuffled a lot, and
22:22
Speaker 5: to have both sides of the ball. You can't really
22:24
Speaker 5: point to anything that you are bringing to the table
22:27
Speaker 5: if you're not hitting and you're not catching to a
22:30
Speaker 5: high level. So what are you doing? And I wish
22:34
Speaker 5: him the best. He's got the physical skills, the power
22:36
Speaker 5: is not evaporated. The technique is not able to bring
22:38
Speaker 5: out the power, to be clear, his poor technique and
22:42
Speaker 5: his pole happy approach with his arms out racing his
22:45
Speaker 5: lower body. If you really want to get granular, that
22:48
Speaker 5: is what is going on. And he's not matching up
22:51
Speaker 5: correctly to drive the ball like he wants.
22:53
Speaker 2: To two more exponus when I add like, I think
22:57
Speaker 2: that the Angels just did him no favors. In twenty
22:59
Speaker 2: two twenty four, they continuously talked about this young core
23:02
Speaker 2: right like that was the the messaging of that ninety
23:05
Speaker 2: nine last season was this is this young core is upcoming,
23:08
Speaker 2: like these are like Taylor Ward called Logan Hoppy, the
23:11
Speaker 2: team's captain. They put a giant billboards outside the ballpark
23:15
Speaker 2: of his face like the face of the next face
23:17
Speaker 2: of the franchise. That is you do that is doing
23:19
Speaker 2: no favors for someone. So when Mark talks about and
23:21
Speaker 2: I totally agree with this, like who do you view
23:23
Speaker 2: yourself as? It's what people ordained him as, is what
23:27
Speaker 2: this organization ordained him as. So that is I think
23:30
Speaker 2: when we talk about the mental struggles of things spiraling,
23:34
Speaker 2: it is the immense pressure that gets put on players,
23:37
Speaker 2: especially in Anaheim, with the way that you know that
23:39
Speaker 2: they have nothing else going for him at times, so
23:41
Speaker 2: you have to kind of sell young players sometimes when
23:43
Speaker 2: they aren't when they aren't there, and I think that
23:45
Speaker 2: is just spiraled on him. And it has been years
23:47
Speaker 2: in the making.
23:51
Speaker 1: So we got to trade deadline coming up, and just
23:53
Speaker 1: want to remind our listeners and viewers Baseball America is
23:56
Speaker 1: the best place to learn about all the prospect prospects
24:00
Speaker 1: on the move this trade deadline season. Now through Monday,
24:03
Speaker 1: our viewers get thirty percent off the first year of
24:06
Speaker 1: any digital annual subscription with promo code Halo thirty. That's
24:10
Speaker 1: code Halo thirty at Baseballamerica dot Com. Well, another part
24:17
Speaker 1: of that big Angel young core that Sam references zach
24:22
Speaker 1: netto the shortstop, and he's been a big topic conversation
24:25
Speaker 1: on the show, and his name has been bantered about,
24:29
Speaker 1: bandied about in trade rumors a lot more than we expected, Sam, Mark,
24:33
Speaker 1: what do you think we got a couple of days
24:35
Speaker 1: for the deadline. I still think the return could be
24:38
Speaker 1: pretty significant if the Angels are willing to part with
24:40
Speaker 1: zach Neto and he got feeling on what's going to
24:43
Speaker 1: happen with him.
24:45
Speaker 2: I think it's been out there enough that it feels
24:47
Speaker 2: like they're I mean, so many play people are kind
24:50
Speaker 2: of reporting this and it's speculating about it. It feels like
24:52
Speaker 2: it's it's coming. And I feel like even just the
24:55
Speaker 2: trade with a hobby is, you know, it indicated that
24:58
Speaker 2: they're they're moving on off just this last iteration of
25:02
Speaker 2: Angels baseball. So I don't know, they don't have to
25:03
Speaker 2: mean zach Nandel, like I said the last time I
25:05
Speaker 2: was on here, could be your franchise short stuff. He's
25:08
Speaker 2: I don't you know. I think there's just like with him,
25:10
Speaker 2: it's a little weird like this whole week. He's been
25:11
Speaker 2: declining interview requests. It seems he's you know, not really
25:16
Speaker 2: I don't know what's really going on with them. I
25:17
Speaker 2: would like to ask him. That was the whole point
25:19
Speaker 2: of asking to talk to you know, so I don't,
25:22
Speaker 2: you know, it's not like I'm entitled to that or
25:24
Speaker 2: anybody's entitled to it, but I think, you know, it's
25:27
Speaker 2: part of the responsibility. And it seems like maybe this
25:29
Speaker 2: is getting them a little bit. I don't know, and
25:32
Speaker 2: but I really couldn't speak for him, and that's kind
25:35
Speaker 2: of I guess the point of bringing up I just,
25:37
Speaker 2: you know, it's tough you being in a you're in an
25:39
Speaker 2: organization your whole career. He was drafted here in twenty
25:41
Speaker 2: twenty two. The team has not been good. But I
25:43
Speaker 2: do think that he feels at home in this organization.
25:46
Speaker 2: I think he's, you know, at the very least, like
25:48
Speaker 2: wanted to have the recognition of, you know, some sort
25:50
Speaker 2: of contract extension, you know, topic of conversation. It's just like,
25:55
Speaker 2: you know, maybe this is ending a little more prematurely
25:57
Speaker 2: than he was ready for it, or at least possibly
25:59
Speaker 2: could be. So we'll see. But it's been a bit
26:00
Speaker 2: of a weird week on that front.
26:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Mark, I don't I don't call you ever
26:06
Speaker 1: turning down any interview requests when you were in Anaheim
26:08
Speaker 1: or any or the other stops.
26:10
Speaker 5: And I know that's the pointing disappointing to hear, to
26:14
Speaker 5: be honest with you, somebody asks to interview you. I mean,
26:18
Speaker 5: I had a pretty good relationship some you know, reporters
26:22
Speaker 5: I like better than others. But I never denied anyone access.
26:25
Speaker 5: And it's hard to make much sense of it. He
26:28
Speaker 5: might want to play on the biggest stage that he can.
26:31
Speaker 5: This might not be enough for him any longer. He
26:34
Speaker 5: you know, the pants are getting shorter, the T shirt
26:37
Speaker 5: and he's showing the pipes off, I guess, and the EyeBlack.
26:42
Speaker 5: And the thing is, I don't know. I don't know
26:46
Speaker 5: him at all. I've watched him. I've hoped to see
26:49
Speaker 5: some things. The on field play is very talented, very gifted,
26:54
Speaker 5: much better player than I ever was, if I need
26:56
Speaker 5: to make that point again. But there's a lot left
26:59
Speaker 5: to be desired in the attitude, the hustle, uh and me.
27:02
Speaker 5: He too might benefit from a change of scenery. I mean,
27:05
Speaker 5: he's you could say that that he's been robbed. He's
27:07
Speaker 5: got zero All Stars to his name, so when he's
27:11
Speaker 5: talked about he is extremely talented. But maybe All Stars
27:14
Speaker 5: are a popularity contest for some. But it'd be nice
27:18
Speaker 5: if he if he did do that. His on base
27:20
Speaker 5: percentage is never really I think, quite been high enough
27:24
Speaker 5: to bring his ops to the point that he's talked
27:26
Speaker 5: about in that regard. But give an interview, man, I
27:30
Speaker 5: don't I don't get that running away to do something.
27:32
Speaker 5: I don't know what more important than that. But very
27:36
Speaker 5: talented player, very divisive at times. I don't know if
27:40
Speaker 5: if they I mean this, this move is being judged
27:43
Speaker 5: the one we've been talking about earlier. There could be
27:45
Speaker 5: a lot more to come, and I think there they're
27:46
Speaker 5: sure might be. So some of these guys probably don't
27:50
Speaker 5: know what it looks like to play for a truly
27:53
Speaker 5: bottom basement team. Yeah, and and that's that is what
27:57
Speaker 5: it's going to look like. If if Deptmer's so, Rihano
28:00
Speaker 5: and others, Zephyr John could get moved. Unfortunately, they moved
28:04
Speaker 5: on from alec Manoa. By the way, Mike, you didn't
28:06
Speaker 5: even mention that.
28:08
Speaker 1: Well, you know, they tried to find a way to
28:10
Speaker 1: keep that, you know, sixteen.
28:13
Speaker 8: E r A.
28:14
Speaker 5: I think it's a little lower than that.
28:17
Speaker 1: At some point it just became too odorous.
28:20
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a bottom basement the team with
28:22
Speaker 2: all these players.
28:23
Speaker 1: I know, they are the worst record in the league.
28:24
Speaker 5: Well it's hard to fathom given how how quality three
28:29
Speaker 5: quality starting pitchers, and I know this is the record.
28:32
Speaker 2: The man the right, I mean, the manager just gave
28:36
Speaker 2: away the game, in my opinion, by not walking your
28:38
Speaker 2: Don Alvarez. You know, I thought I totally disagreed with
28:41
Speaker 2: the decision to walk him the night before and Monday,
28:43
Speaker 2: because you were then moving the winning run into scoring
28:46
Speaker 2: position on Monday with a picture that can't throw strikes
28:50
Speaker 2: in at least in the last couple of games, and
28:51
Speaker 2: then on Tuesday you said you have a picture that
28:54
Speaker 2: can throw strikes, and you know you already have to
28:57
Speaker 2: leave run at third, So what's the difference if you
29:00
Speaker 2: move another lead run into second when you've you'ord on
29:03
Speaker 2: Alvat It made no sense and his explanations make no sense.
29:06
Speaker 2: And I just feel like come in and talk, say
29:08
Speaker 2: like I mess that up? Or where's John Gibbons. Where
29:10
Speaker 2: are the people that are supposed to be in Kurtzuzuki's year,
29:12
Speaker 2: and I just like we talked about lack of accountability,
29:14
Speaker 2: Like the answers from Kurt on these you know, on
29:17
Speaker 2: these decisions make no sense to me. And I just
29:20
Speaker 2: feel like he's in over his head with his job sometimes.
29:22
Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's a weird it's a weird dynamic.
29:24
Speaker 2: I just want to get that off because I'm like,
29:26
Speaker 2: the decision to walk to not walk ord On Alvarez
29:29
Speaker 2: on Tuesday was like a game deciding decision.
29:32
Speaker 5: I felt, Yeah, if you're going to tell the picture
29:35
Speaker 5: nothing good, then you hold up four fingers. In my opinion,
29:40
Speaker 5: it puts a lot of pressure on a guy to say, hey,
29:42
Speaker 5: you know, don't throw him anything good here. Why not
29:45
Speaker 5: just take the decision out of a young guy's hands.
29:48
Speaker 5: And then he was pitching again last night. Ferris, that
29:51
Speaker 5: is struggle. A number of struggles they got swept by
29:54
Speaker 5: the way. We're not we are aware of what happened
29:58
Speaker 5: to some struggles by the first day. Nolan shawna Well
30:01
Speaker 5: is on defense. Hopefully that gets a little bit better.
30:05
Speaker 5: But three quality starting pitchers and how many games below
30:10
Speaker 5: five hundred? Well a ton it's hard. I don't know
30:15
Speaker 5: in the short starts or what's part of the problem too,
30:18
Speaker 5: Why Ferris and some of these other guys are having
30:20
Speaker 5: to work harder and Phil Seth not being available. Last
30:22
Speaker 5: night they were a man down. So yeah, tough tough times.
30:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's one thing to go out in the mound
30:29
Speaker 1: and tell Greg Maddox not to throw this guy at strike.
30:31
Speaker 1: It's another thing to tell Mitch Ferris put him in
30:34
Speaker 1: a tough position there. I want to say one last
30:36
Speaker 1: thing about Zach Natta before we close the show. What
30:39
Speaker 1: perplexes me the most about this kid is, as Mark says,
30:43
Speaker 1: and I agree, he's got all the talent in the world.
30:45
Speaker 1: I just think he's lacking a maturity. And we're not
30:48
Speaker 1: talking about a rookie anymore. This I think it's his fourth,
30:51
Speaker 1: not full year, but he's been in the Bagnies for
30:53
Speaker 1: four years and he continues to make mistakes on the
30:56
Speaker 1: base pass, you know, not hustling, just the pouting earlier
31:01
Speaker 1: in the season, and I think we've sort of seen
31:03
Speaker 1: that crop up a little bit in the last week
31:05
Speaker 1: or two. I don't know if the trade deadline thing
31:08
Speaker 1: is bothering him or not, or the fact that his
31:10
Speaker 1: name has come up in rumors. But my goodness, as
31:13
Speaker 1: a player, mark, when your name's coming up in trade rumors,
31:15
Speaker 1: doesn't that mean, hey, all these teams want me. You know,
31:18
Speaker 1: the Yankees want to shortstop. I may go to the world.
31:21
Speaker 1: I would think that would be a compliment. You know,
31:22
Speaker 1: handle it like a pro. He's making four million now,
31:25
Speaker 1: it's a business. Treat it that way, and you won't
31:28
Speaker 1: be so offended by all this stuff going on. I
31:31
Speaker 1: think once he I think the Angels fear is they
31:34
Speaker 1: don't want all that maturity and development to come to
31:39
Speaker 1: fruition for another team. If I was the mood, I
31:43
Speaker 1: would tell him to beware the sense of urgency right now. Yeah,
31:47
Speaker 1: you could probably get a nice haul for zach Netto,
31:49
Speaker 1: but that kind of deal, to me, is better left
31:52
Speaker 1: for the winter, where you can really do a better,
31:55
Speaker 1: more thorough job of evaluating the other team systems evaluate
32:00
Speaker 1: your system. I don't know. I'm not sure i'd make
32:02
Speaker 1: that deal right now, because I think this kid could
32:05
Speaker 1: be a perennial All Star once he gets his head
32:08
Speaker 1: in the right places.
32:11
Speaker 5: You too, I don't know, a lot of teams might
32:15
Speaker 5: be willing to pony up, and you're gonna have to
32:18
Speaker 5: one thing. I will say. If these issues that we're
32:22
Speaker 5: talking about are something that is going to continue, you're
32:24
Speaker 5: going to need a I think a firmer hand guiding
32:28
Speaker 5: the ball club and much firmer possibly too. Ron Washington
32:33
Speaker 5: very old school at times, a little too much, you know,
32:37
Speaker 5: sometimes criticizing players. Whatever that bunt was or may but
32:44
Speaker 5: he I mean, I wonder what his words. There was
32:47
Speaker 5: a picture of him talking in San Francisco. I kind
32:50
Speaker 5: of wondered if he got in his rear and said,
32:52
Speaker 5: what are you doing? He's been following him. He's a
32:54
Speaker 5: guy he tutored, and even though he's not playing for
32:57
Speaker 5: Ron's current club, you know that's a guy. He's kind
32:59
Speaker 5: of a and you don't figure it out. Man, what
33:02
Speaker 5: colorful language you guys?
33:04
Speaker 6: Can?
33:05
Speaker 4: You know?
33:06
Speaker 3: Like you you.
33:07
Speaker 5: Can tell you know what that might sound like. But uh,
33:10
Speaker 5: I don't know if they need left handed pop. Fletch
33:13
Speaker 5: had an article today, Uh, there's some prospects in the
33:16
Speaker 5: minor league, so we may get into uh, but you're
33:18
Speaker 5: gonna guy like Theo Gillen from the Rays, very good hitter,
33:23
Speaker 5: very attractive, but that could be more It would probably
33:25
Speaker 5: be netto for him, maybe a little bit more of
33:28
Speaker 5: the Rays having to give up, but very talented out
33:32
Speaker 5: with some pop and uh we'll see, but firmer hand
33:36
Speaker 5: for somebody who lacks maturity.
33:38
Speaker 2: I think.
33:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well that's gonna wrap up our show for today.
33:42
Speaker 1: Remember Sunday, great pitching matchup out at Anaheim the Miz
33:46
Speaker 1: against Walbert Urana. I don't know if there's gonna be
33:49
Speaker 1: a speed limit, but uh, they're gonna be lighting up
33:52
Speaker 1: the radar gun that day. Thanks for joining us on
33:54
Speaker 1: Halo Territory. Thank you Mark Trump and Sam Blum as always,
33:58
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time on Hi Low Territory.