Latest / Ridiculous History / The Constitution is Amazing (and Ridiculous), Part One: A Troubled, Ambitious Origin Story

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The Constitution is Amazing (and Ridiculous), Part One: A Troubled, Ambitious Origin Story · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the Myth, Legend,
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  Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know that I will give it up for
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  Speaker 2: the Man, the Myth or the Legend, as I've just
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  Speaker 2: found out that he gives us the naughty finger every
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  Speaker 2: time we start recording. You know who else has been
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  Speaker 2: doing that historically, Guys, Paul McCartney anytime.
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  Speaker 3: If you've seen over the many many years he's been a.
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  Speaker 2: Public figure, there's all his footage of him and interviews
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  Speaker 2: being asked an uncomfortable question and he.
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  Speaker 3: Just kind of, yeah, does this what I'm doing is
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  Speaker 3: a podcaw audio podcast.
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  Speaker 2: He just sort of uses his middle finger to scratch
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  Speaker 2: his nose or to you know, somehow innocuously gesture. But
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  Speaker 2: it is a total thing that he's doing.
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  Speaker 3: Max.
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  Speaker 1: You are you, You are Noel Brown. And what you're doing,
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  Speaker 1: since we are an audio podcast, is you are lightly
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  Speaker 1: caressing your furrowed brow and parts of your cheeks with
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  Speaker 1: your middle finger.
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  Speaker 3: Are your right hand? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Doing the McCartney that's what I Max doesn't doing the McCartney.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not really mad at you, Max, by the way,
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  Speaker 2: I could never stay mad at you.
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  Speaker 1: I am Ben Bullen and this is of course ridiculous history.
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  Speaker 1: We are immensely excited folks, listeners, friends, countrymen to be
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  Speaker 1: joined with a guy we've been talking about quite a
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  Speaker 1: deal to uh for some time now. Noel, it's a J.
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  Speaker 1: Jacobs aj Bahamas Jacobs.
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  Speaker 2: Uh inexplicable n name that shall never be explicated.
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  Speaker 1: The puzzler we call him here right. He has many names.
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  Speaker 1: Bahamas the puzzler.
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  Speaker 3: There's many hats. Is wearing one right now in Feetz.
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  Speaker 1: He is also known as a prolific author. He has
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  Speaker 1: a new book that we have just absolutely devoured.
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  Speaker 3: A J.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.
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  Speaker 4: I am so delighted to be here. I can't even
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  Speaker 4: tell you love your hat. Ben the track corn and
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  Speaker 4: Noel has his own hat. It's more of a twenty
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  Speaker 4: first century as opposed to an eighteenth century. But still
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  Speaker 4: I appreciate I'm always the outlier. Yeah, but yeah, I
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  Speaker 4: couldn't be more excited. And one of the highlights of
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  Speaker 4: publishing this book is I threw a party in New
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  Speaker 4: York a Constitution themed party at the oldest bar in
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  Speaker 4: New York at Taverns, France's tavern and we all had
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  Speaker 4: mydear uh and up came Ben and Nol from Atlanta
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  Speaker 4: to enjoy some madeira and some musket fondling.
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  Speaker 3: I got, we got, we got muskets. Selfies. That thing
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  Speaker 3: was hefty. You carried that thing around.
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  Speaker 2: You must have some pretty swoll upper body stuff going
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  Speaker 2: on now because of that.
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  Speaker 4: Well yeah, no, it is. It's ten pounds. I mean
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  Speaker 4: it feels heavier, but it is ten pounds. So uh yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I do consider myself quite manly.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's.
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  Speaker 1: So. The book is the Year of living Constitutionally, one
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  Speaker 1: man's humble quest to follow the Constitution's original meaning.
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  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, uh, Noel, Max and I have have
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  Speaker 1: talked with you, like as you were creating and publishing
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  Speaker 1: this book, because this is very much ridiculous history the Constitution.
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  Speaker 3: Ah.
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  Speaker 1: It's a relatively short document, right.
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  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, just four I mean there are big pages,
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  Speaker 4: but four pages. So and it is. It is the
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  Speaker 4: second shortest constitution in the world after Monaco. Monaco doesn't
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  Speaker 4: have much to say.
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  Speaker 1: Monaco just said no taxes.
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  Speaker 3: That's a micronation too.
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  Speaker 2: I mean that would make sense that they would maybe
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  Speaker 2: have a short constitution given the land mask. Yeah, man ale,
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  Speaker 2: the whole of these United States, the entirety of our
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  Speaker 2: constitutional you know, concepts written on such a tiny document.
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  Speaker 2: That really surprised me. I guess you can't see it, right,
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  Speaker 2: Like if you go to Washington, d C. No, where's
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  Speaker 2: it on display. It's in Philadelphia.
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  Speaker 3: No, No, it is.
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  Speaker 4: I actually visited it as part of the Adventures in
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  Speaker 4: my book, and it's at the at the National Archives.
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  Speaker 4: And it's very it's like a cathedral. It's low lighting,
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  Speaker 4: have to you have to talk in whispers, so it is.
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  Speaker 4: And it's in a titanium case. Are gone gas inside
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  Speaker 4: so that it doesn't so it is treated. And of
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  Speaker 4: course the tour guides are contractually required to make a
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  Speaker 4: Nicholas Cage joke, like they say even Nicholas Cage could
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  Speaker 4: not And they do take the Constitution and the Declaration
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  Speaker 4: and they put them in an undisclosed location overnight, so
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  Speaker 4: they do go. They're like whisked away and then they
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  Speaker 4: come back in the morning.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, so the heist is every night exactly.
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  Speaker 3: There's there. You know, they're sort of like mitigating the
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  Speaker 3: potential heist.
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  Speaker 4: It's a government.
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  Speaker 3: Nicolas Cages of the world just can't help themselves. You know.
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  Speaker 2: They see a constitution, they got to steal it, you know,
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  Speaker 2: or a.
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  Speaker 3: Declaration of independence or whatever it might be.
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  Speaker 2: The interesting thing to me about, uh, the Constitution is
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  Speaker 2: this idea I guess we learned probably all learned about
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  Speaker 2: in Civics class of like strict constructionism, you know, the
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  Speaker 2: idea of adhering to the intent, to the original intent
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  Speaker 2: of the founding fathers. And that's a big part of
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  Speaker 2: what you're getting to the bottom of is what was
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  Speaker 2: that intent and is it even something that is possible
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  Speaker 2: to adhere to strictly so strictly you know, in this
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  Speaker 2: our modern day exactly.
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  Speaker 4: And that was sort of the motivation for writing the book,
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  Speaker 4: is because first of all, I had never read the Constitution.
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  Speaker 4: Apparently sixty percent of Americans have never read it from
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  Speaker 4: start to finish, and I was in that sixty percent.
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  Speaker 4: But I would read every day in the news all
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  Speaker 4: these headlines about how much the Constitution is shaping our
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  Speaker 4: lives more than ever, like every day, and where we
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  Speaker 4: go to school, what we can carry, what we can
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  Speaker 4: say what can do you with your body? So I
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  Speaker 4: was like, let me try to understand the Constitution. And
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  Speaker 4: as you know, the way I like to try to
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  Speaker 4: understand things is to dive in, to live them, to
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  Speaker 4: immerse myself, like I did.
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  Speaker 1: That side to aj Jacob's fellow ridiculous historians also earlier
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  Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Year of Living Biblically, which
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  Speaker 1: was exactly a very inconvenient year at Southlake.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, that was sort of the prequel to this, And yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I had to follow that literally, which meant not just
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  Speaker 4: the Ten Commandments, but I couldn't.
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  Speaker 1: Show a weird fabric.
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  Speaker 4: You couldn't wear two kinds of fabrics, so no polycotton.
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  Speaker 4: You couldn't shave the corners of your beard, so I
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  Speaker 4: had a beard bigger than both of yours combined. I
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  Speaker 4: would say not to flex, but that was the fact.
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  Speaker 4: So this one was sort of in the same line,
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  Speaker 4: and I did. I tried to express my constitutional rights
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  Speaker 4: using the technology and mindset of the founders, So that
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  Speaker 4: meant carrying a musket in an eighteenth century musket around
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  Speaker 4: the streets of New York. And I gave up social
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  Speaker 4: media in favor of writing pamphlets with a quill and ink,
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  Speaker 4: which I loved, which.
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  Speaker 3: You passed out as party favorites.
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  Speaker 2: That's your book event, And I actually snagged a few
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  Speaker 2: little pots of this powdered ink, which I guess just
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  Speaker 2: add water and then a very very period accurate quill,
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  Speaker 2: which is literally a bird feather kind of sharpened to
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  Speaker 2: a point at the end. Then they're perfectly hollow, so
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  Speaker 2: it makes sense the ink just kind of pools up inside,
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  Speaker 2: and then I guess you just dip it in just
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  Speaker 2: like you see in the pictures.
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  Speaker 4: Exactly, and goose quill is what they used back in
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  Speaker 4: the Constitution. Although if you're super fancy, swan swan feathers
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  Speaker 4: were sometimes preferred.
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  Speaker 1: Swand feathers were like the good pins.
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  Speaker 4: That was like, yeah, that was like if you were
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  Speaker 4: like the Tiffany's. They also made bigger. They were if
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  Speaker 4: you want to write, if you want to do the
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  Speaker 4: jant John Hancock just like show.
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  Speaker 1: How So, one thing that I think stood out to
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  Speaker 1: all of us as fans of ridiculous history is that
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  Speaker 1: there is a lot of ridiculous stuff about the Constitution
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  Speaker 1: for such a foundational document. Aj As you explain in
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  Speaker 1: depth in the book, it is kind of weird that
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  Speaker 1: there are some errors. There are some like type of
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  Speaker 1: graphical you.
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  Speaker 4: Know, yeah, they're typos.
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  Speaker 2: I mean we can't have spell check. I mean, let's
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  Speaker 2: give them a little, you know, a little leeway. But
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  Speaker 2: what kind are we talking like, not serious foundational errors,
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  Speaker 2: maybe a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: More misspellings and things like that, or how far does
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  Speaker 3: it go?
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  Speaker 4: Well, you're right, I do want to give them the
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  Speaker 4: benefit of the doubt because some parts of the Constitution
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  Speaker 4: are so inspiring and wonderful, and they really did. I
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  Speaker 4: believe that in overall did good in establishing a more
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  Speaker 4: democratic nation that we keep havef to fighting to make
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  Speaker 4: more democrats. That's said. I ran it through grammarly at
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  Speaker 4: software and grammarily found over six hundred errors. So grammarly
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  Speaker 4: did not like it at all. No, and they were
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  Speaker 4: a little overly strict. But here are some that were
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  Speaker 4: clearly even back in the eighteenth century. First of all,
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  Speaker 4: the state of Pennsylvania is spelled two different ways in
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  Speaker 4: the same four pages, so that there's no excuse. It's
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  Speaker 4: pe n n in one case and pe n s
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  Speaker 4: in the other. There's also you know, the classic it
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  Speaker 4: apostrophe s its problem, so there is an extraneous apostrophe
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  Speaker 4: in one of the itzes, which I mean, can you
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  Speaker 4: imagine if social if Ben Franklin had invented social media
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  Speaker 4: in the eighteenth cent they would have been flak. They
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  Speaker 4: just would have been trolled out. So, yes, it is
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  Speaker 4: not a perfect document, which I think is fine and
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  Speaker 4: I think is actually instructive because it shows it was
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  Speaker 4: written by humans. They were very prescient and brilliant humans,
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  Speaker 4: but they were humans, and they knew it was imperfect.
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  Speaker 4: George Washington said after the two weeks after the Constitution,
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  Speaker 4: he wrote a letter to his nephew and said, I
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  Speaker 4: know it's an imperfect document, but you're going to improve
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  Speaker 4: it your generation and the generations after. So I am
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  Speaker 4: actually fine with it having some typos or quillos. I
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  Speaker 4: guess it's not type.
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  Speaker 1: Of So could we say then that George Washington himself
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  Speaker 1: set a precedent for improving an imperfect document. Scalia would never.
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  Speaker 4: Well, exactly, I mean I think that they all they
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  Speaker 4: recognized more than some modern people, and they did build
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  Speaker 4: in they built in a way a method to change it.
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  Speaker 4: Article five, which is about amending the Constitution, which was
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  Speaker 4: totally new. That was another new brilliant innovation. The problem
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  Speaker 4: is they made it so hard to amend. It is
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  Speaker 4: so they didn't realize how hard it would be to amend,
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  Speaker 4: because they didn't see this rigid two party system coming.
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  Speaker 4: And you need two thirds of the Congress and three
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  Speaker 4: quarters of the state legislatures to sign off on an amendment.
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  Speaker 4: You can't get two thirds of Congress to agree on
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  Speaker 4: on the color of an apple. You can't get them.
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  Speaker 1: We can't get a look aj Noel, Max and I
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  Speaker 1: cannot agree when we're ordering pizza together. Interesting, you know
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  Speaker 1: what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's why you have the whole half situation. I
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  Speaker 2: think that's very key. That was our topics. Yeah, with
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  Speaker 2: the online ordering, you can even do it in fourths,
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  Speaker 2: you know whatever. I think it's a it's that's the
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  Speaker 2: modern autems like, I don't know about that.
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  Speaker 1: We have to take that to ridiculous history. Congress.
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  Speaker 2: You know, you know one thing that occurs to me
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  Speaker 2: too that has really become more and more apparent in
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  Speaker 2: our current political climate is that, you know, with the
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  Speaker 2: founding fathers having this idea in mind that oh, sure
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  Speaker 2: people will be able to figure this out and get
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  Speaker 2: along and agree to amendments. As they seem necessary. But
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  Speaker 2: how much is based on this idea of a gentleman's agreement,
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  Speaker 2: the idea of decorum? Right, No, sure, everyone will behave themselves,
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  Speaker 2: it'll be fine. The president will totally step down if
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  Speaker 2: you know, they lose an election.
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  Speaker 3: That's what they do, you know.
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  Speaker 2: And we realize now with certain individuals in power, we're
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  Speaker 2: not going to get to political soap oxy here.
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  Speaker 3: But all you gotta do is just be a be a.
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  Speaker 2: Pill and just ignore that decorum, and then you realize
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  Speaker 2: how little of this stuff is actually codified in real law.
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  Speaker 4: Such a great point, absolutely, and they all figure. You know,
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  Speaker 4: George Washington had many flaws, as we know, but he
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  Speaker 4: also was considered this virtuous person who would step down
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  Speaker 4: after a couple of a couple of and would not
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  Speaker 4: become a dictator or a tyrant.
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  Speaker 1: And indeed rejected, rejected soft propositions for him to be
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  Speaker 1: a king of Monarcha and em Burger right.
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  Speaker 4: A lot of them wanted to call him his highness,
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  Speaker 4: his excellency John Adams loved that stuff, and they made
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  Speaker 4: fun of him, by the way, and called him John
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  Speaker 4: Adams his rotundity, which is I think fat shaming. And
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  Speaker 4: I don't have a prove not a fan.
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  Speaker 1: That's like, that's like ethel read the unready, you know
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  Speaker 1: like that we have we've talked about the weird styles
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  Speaker 1: or hoterrifics, hoterifics that people get throughout history. The come on, man,
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  Speaker 1: rotund that's just mean has.
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  Speaker 2: Met He occupied the rotunda, you know he hung out there.
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  Speaker 2: That positive original lobbyists like that.
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  Speaker 4: They were a little nervous. Even then. There's a letter
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  Speaker 4: that Thomas Jefferson wrote to James Madison after the Constitution
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  Speaker 4: and he said, I am nervous because Thomas Jefferson wasn't there,
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  Speaker 4: so he had a little fomo and he was saying,
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  Speaker 4: I am quite nervous that we're going to get a
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  Speaker 4: president who comes in and loses the election, the reelection
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  Speaker 4: by a slim margin. He's going to cry foul and
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  Speaker 4: claim that it was rigged and refused to leave and
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: try to get the States his supporters to rally behind him.
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  Speaker 4: And I read that and I'm like, wow, that.
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  Speaker 3: Is that might be Russian.
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  Speaker 1: That comes to Thomas Jefferson famously kind of a pill.
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  Speaker 1: He had a lot of huts, but he's the he's
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the guy. If I recall correctly, who looked at the
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Christian Bible and said, I have some notes.
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  Speaker 4: He edited it, he really did. He took out all
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  Speaker 4: the miracles. He took out he didn't want. He just
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  Speaker 4: wanted it straight ahead, no walking on water.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of slaves too, if I remember correctly.
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  Speaker 1: He was quite and has a lot of descendants.
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  Speaker 4: What's interesting is he knew he was a hippot. He
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  Speaker 4: knew slavery was wrong, and that certainly doesn't make him better,
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  Speaker 4: maybe it even makes him worse. But he was he
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  Speaker 4: was well aware. But he said I'm too avaricious. He said,
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  Speaker 4: I'm too. I'm too greedy and lazy to want to
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  Speaker 4: give up my lifestyle in my own in my own life.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, it led to horrible things for folks like
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  Speaker 1: Sally Hemings right. Also, speaking of speaking of hypocrisy or
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: complicated origin stories and providence, one thing that I learned
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  Speaker 1: from from your book was as a person, as one
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  Speaker 1: of the forty percent, I read the Constitution as a kid,
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  Speaker 1: and you're a good citizen. Indeed, I had okay parents.
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  Speaker 1: I've found it. I found it strange. I never knew
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  Speaker 1: this the Constitution. You know, of course, phrasing stuff like
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: freedom for all people quote unquote people. It is not vegan.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I had never thought about the idea of vegan constitutions.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, it is very far from vegan. Yeah, back then
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  Speaker 4: it was that was not something top of mind. So
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: the actual Constitution is not written on paper. It's written
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: on parchment, and true parchment is animal skin. They and
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I actually went to the place where they the only
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  Speaker 4: place left in America where they still make parchment for
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  Speaker 4: commercial use. And it is smelly and.
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  Speaker 3: Go it's like a leather almost, right, it's very.
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  Speaker 4: Similar to a leather cut. Yeah, And they got and
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  Speaker 4: they put it in a stew. They take the the
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: Constitution's probably calf skin and they put it in a
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: stew made of all sorts of including urine.
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  Speaker 3: Fun.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, good for color, right, he had exactly like that's
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  Speaker 4: where the yellow comes.
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  Speaker 3: Not really, No time is what creates that.
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  Speaker 4: There you go.
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  Speaker 2: Mit, we already talked about the animal products in the
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: writing utensils of course, right, the ink itself. I didn't
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  Speaker 2: even know this when I when I procured those pots
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  Speaker 2: of powdered ink from your event, there's there's some animal
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: content and even the ink right.
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  Speaker 4: Right, the ink is made from the nests nests of
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: wasp bags. So and they crush them up and that's
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  Speaker 4: where they get the black ink. So, yeah, it was.
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  Speaker 4: You know, that was the time. It was very it
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  Speaker 4: was it was an agricultural country, so there was Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: it was. So I don't even know if I'd count
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  Speaker 4: that as his hypocrisy. I will say one thing that
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  Speaker 4: I did find interestingly hypocritical, and I feel bad saying
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  Speaker 4: it because Ben Franklin is my favorite founding father. Oh
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  Speaker 4: you Wildwood, Yeah, and you've done some great episodes on him.
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  Speaker 4: I love you said that you didn't like his spelling reform.
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  Speaker 4: I'm actually I'm like, maybe we should try it.
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  Speaker 1: You are you see Max beat me here? Uh aj?
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  Speaker 1: Are you saying that you looked at Ben Franklin's wild
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  Speaker 1: alphabet revisions, the part where he said some of these
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  Speaker 1: letters are bullshit, and you you were on board.
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  Speaker 4: I'm semi on board with. I mean, look at look
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  Speaker 4: at how crazy American spelling is, and he was just
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: trying to reform it. The fact that g h o
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: U g h can be pronounced ten different ways calls
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: road through enough, like it's just crazy enough.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Enough, indeed enough already with the ridiculous spelling. Yeah, that's
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: a very good point.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I do think he's an interesting guy. But you you
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: were gonna make a point about it.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: I was gonna give him just one little I just
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: wanted to needle him for one thing, which was he
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: arrived at the Constitutional Convention famously in a sedan chair,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: which is one of those chairs carried by four people,
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: and the.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, is that what? Probably? Yeah, yeah, a couple of names.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Palaquin maybe is like almost like a carriage version of
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: and got an enclosure, I believe, but there's yeah, but
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: that's incredible, that's very kingly well.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: And it was carried by four prisoners for Philadelphia prisoners,
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: So that doesn't seem like if you're going to the
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: birth of freedom. Wow, maybe don't be carried in a sedan,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: which he got the idea for Marie Antoinette because he
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: lived in France, and so so maybe that wasn't his
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: best moment, but forgive maybe.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Also Nola is correct. Palanquin is palanquin is covered. Is
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: a covered sedan chair. Basically it's a human propelled carriage. Basically,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: yamens are the wheels prisoner labor. Oh my gosh, this
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: is the first time I've learned this.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: I've never heard this before either. Age.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I think that's incredible. Uh, do you mind if we
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: pop back over to amendments really quick, because you know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: you mentioned how difficult, and you know, despite their best
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: intentions again hoping that folks would lean on decorum and
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: behave themselves and get along that they thought, well, surely
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: this is a reasonable enough mechanism for creating amendments. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: the whole point of the Constitution was that it was
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: a living document. It could change and mold to the times.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: So what was their barrier to amendments? What was the
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: how did they have it written in and what kind
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: of came of that in actual practice?
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Well, they did want to make it too easy, because yeah,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: you don't want to change it every other day. But
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: so they made it quite quite difficult with two thirds
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: of Congress has to vote for it, and then it
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: goes to the state legislatures and you get you need
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: three quarters of the states to sign off of it.
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: There's another way to do it, but that's also difficult.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: The point is we have had, thank God for amendments,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: because some of them are you know, they gave women
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: the vote, They gave black people and Indigenous people to vote,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: so they have been hugely crucial in making us a
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: better country. But as I said, it's hard. There hasn't
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: been a new one since nineteen ninety two. There have
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: been eleven thousand that have come to the floor of
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: the Congress, so that's like already they've gotten there, and
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: only twenty seven of those have made it. So that's
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: like a ninety nine point seventy four rejection rate, I think,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: and some of them deserve to be rejected. There was
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: one in the early nineteen hundreds that said we should
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: change the name to the United from the United States
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: of America to United States of Earth because they thought
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: we're just going to take over the world, so let's
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: just change it now.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of cold war Cold war.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: So I'm glad that one didn't go through, but some
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: of them now. And let me tell you, actually, let
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: me tell you quickly about two heroes that helped pass
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: two of two amendments. The first, I love this woman
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: who's an unsung hero of America feb Byrne.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: She is.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: This was the nineteenth Amendment, so this was when nineteen
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: twenty women were going to get the vote or not
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: get the vote suffrage suffrage exactly. And they they needed
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: three quarters of the state's legislatures to say yes. So
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: they had all but one they need. It came down
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: to one. It came down to Tennessee. And not only that,
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: it came down to one vot vote in Tennessee because
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: it was deadlocked. So it had the same yes and nos.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: And the one undecided guy was named Harry Byrne. So
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: he was a state legislature in Tennessee and he was
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: leaning against it. He was leaning saying no, we shouldn't
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: give women the vote. His mom, feb Byrne, wrote a
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: letter and stuck it in his suit, and the letter said,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: be a good boy, be a good boy, and vote
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: for women, because that's what your mom wants to you
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: to do. He read the letter, he voted for the
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: nineteenth Amendment.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: It passed.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Legend has it that the other legislators were so angry
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: at him and his mom that they chased him out
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: of the court of the House and he had to
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: run a jump from a window to escape them. That
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure it is true, but what is true
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: is his mom wrote this letter that changed American history.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: So hooray huzzah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: For us, So say we all, it's strange how such
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: big results can hinge on such ostensibly tiny things.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: A great yeah, be a good boy, be a good bye.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: And he.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: When I think about the idea of proposed amendments, you
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: know that outrageous number, and you've listed some ridiculous ones.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Some of the ones that have been proposed but never
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: approved are pretty common sense, like the idea of having
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a balanced budget has never been approved.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: Right, And also there are a ton that I would pass,
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: like just in a second. I mean, first of all,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: two year two terms limit for a Senate and Congress
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: that's been proposed dozens of times and it gets shot
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: down just because it's so hard to pass. But yeah,
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, look at the I will say the word
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: senate means old like sen esence, senate. But they didn't
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: mean this old like they didn't think only Ben Franklin
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: lived to this age, and so they didn't they didn't
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: imagine the average age in the Constitutional Convention. I mean,
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: Madison was in his thirties, and I think Ben, I
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: mean Hamilton was twenty eight something like that.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Ah geez, all right, well we're doing okay, guys, we're
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: still doing stuff.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Fine, it's fine.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: They did not have two hit podcasts. I will say, oh,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: neither of neither of us.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Wasn't it wasn't the thing.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Yet they would have maybe I think, you know, I
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: was about to say earlier, you're talking about Ben Franklin
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: in social media.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: That guy would have been wicked.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Oh wicked man destroyed us all sliced us right on
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: down the side. I am personally am going to cop
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: to still to this day, if not fully read the Constitution.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I want to just make clear a couple of the
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: things that I believe are defined in there, but I
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: want you to correct me if I'm wrong. Things like
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: term limits that you discussed it obviously maybe are least
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: something to be desired. But the qualifications for say, running
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: for presidents, that's in there, right, Yes, to some extent,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: that's the thing, right, Like a lot of it's a
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: little meant to be vague, and now we're starting to
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: test the metal of what some of this stuff means.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Where it's like, you know, if you're a felon, you
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: can't vote, you're disenfranchised. But yet they didn't think to
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: put if you're a felon you can't run for presidents
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: because decorum, Because surely a felon would never be elevated
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: to the level where they'd be able to run for presidents.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I think let's deferred a hero in this wind.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I believe that there are quote unquote qualifications, yet they
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: are exceedingly they're like doctor Seuss levels.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a minimum age, naturalized citizen or whatever.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Right, Yes, when Arnold Schwartz, remember when some people wanted
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger to be president. That was a It didn't
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: ever make it to Congress, but there was a great
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: bit of political will, yeah, or a call, if you will, uh,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to to amend the constitution such that the terminator could
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: run for president.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Guys, can I just say to you, I think Arnold
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: saw whatever is is shortcomings.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Maybe he's a pretty good good politician. I think he's
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: got a level head, he's a good speaker. He clearly
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: cares about the.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: People of California, you know, And I think he would
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: have extended that kind of love to the people of
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: the United States of Earth.
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: Hell, listen if he if he runs now, I would
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: not be upset.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, yeah, you're right. They left a lot
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: of it. Uh, as you said, as we said, it's
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: only four pages, so a lot of it is implied.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: It is implied, and that's that's a huge part of
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: the constitution, the unwritten constitution, the silent constitution. There there
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: are all sorts of names for it. But yeah, when
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: you don't write it out, that's a problem. On the
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: other hand, you having this vague language sometimes can be
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: super helpful. So for instance, let me give you an
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: example cruel and unusual punishment. Now they didn't say, here's
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: what's cruel and unusual, you know, like the thumbscrew, and
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: have a list of all of this, which is probably
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: good because back then, in the seventeen nineties, what was
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: cruel and unusual was very different. Flogging was fine.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: That's the pillary.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: Pillories, And I will say, as part of my adventure,
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: I decided to explore pillaries, so you can buy them
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: on Etsy. I bought a pillary. This is and this
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: is the wooden thing where you can put your hands
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: and stock gazing. The stock g exact and stocks actually
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: use feet as well, so the pillary is just the
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: hands in the head. So I learned that that was
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: still Yeah, both neither of them and they were.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Nat It was a holdover from like the Dark Ages,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: right or from the medieval times.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: But it was still used. John Jay, the first Justice
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court, he sentenced someone to an hour in the
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: pillory for spying and it was it was not fun
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: like it was. They would throw not just fruit, but
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: like poop at you, dead animals. Tickling. That was they
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: would tickle you, which just seems so.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Usual.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: It just seems cruel and on. So I did buy one,
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: and the one they make pillar it was yes, and
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: it was more marketed towards like adult entertainment, I think,
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: than punishment.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, wait, pause, we hear the diplomacy there.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: You hear that. I do not want to kink shame.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: If that's what people enjoy, it's.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Not you don't got yeah. Yeah, but the idea of the.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Idea of cruel and unusual, it makes me imagine, uh,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: it makes me imagine essentially a brainstorming session which the
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Constitution kind of was, where someone someone's like, well, you
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: can punish people if they break these laws that we're writing.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: And then someone said, yeah, but you should you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: not be rude about it, or you shouldn't be cruel
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: about it, and then someone said what's the worst thing
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: that you could do to a person? And then some
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and then they just pitched ideas for like twenty minutes,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and someone said, Okay, we'll just say cruel and unusual.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of stuff to do today, so.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, make it shorthand they don't have time to
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: list it otherwise it will be eight thousand pages. And
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: by the way, the treadmill also a big cruel and
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: unusual punishment Like then, yeah.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: That was in still is today, guys.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: Self inflicted. I punish myself every day on the on
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: the treadmill.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Hold the phone, Wait, hold the quill.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: This is a two parter because we have so much
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: more stuff to explore. I am loving picking a j.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Bahamas Jacob's brain here.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Oh I know, I also love the idea of picking
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: a brain.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: It's just whenever that expression has used, my mind immediately
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: turns to images of like poking at a live brain
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: in some sort of dish in a laboratory.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: But that's not what we're doing.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: AJ's brain is staying fully contained within his skull. And
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: we're really excited to continue this conversation about the year
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: of living constitutionally and all things ridiculous when it comes
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: to that that living documents m.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Four big pages, which.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: That's in the space, very tiny text.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Which determined the course of history and indeed the future.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Big big thanks to mister Max Williams, our super producer.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Huge thanks to A. J.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Mohamas, Jacobs, Jonathan Strickland the quiz He's Jeff Cots, and
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Christopher osiotis.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Here in spirit.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Big big thanks of course, also to Abe loues Ya.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Please check out the Puzzler, where in your faithful correspondence
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: may make a cameo or two spoiler. We do, but
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I am so excited for part two of this.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Me too, and we will see you next time. Folks.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.