Latest / Dead Serious, Still Funny / Navigating Widowhood
Transcript
- Ashley Southard: Welcome to another episode of Dead Serious, Still Funny, where we learn to balance the grief and the giggles. I am your widowed host, Ashley Suther, and we have a very special episode for you guys today. We have published author Amy King on the podcast. She is also a widow, and I'm so excited for you guys to hear her story. Amy King: So I grew up in Virginia and married my high school sweetheart, Andy. We went to college together, got married in 2018, same year that my dad passed away. And so just immediately went through an identity crisis in our marriage. and eventually a couple of years later, we had a little girl, Adeline, and we were just in the swing of things. And he was in the army reserves. his full-time job was in agriculture, but he would drill one week in a month. and then he'd go away for a couple of weeks in the summer. So around the same time that your auntie passed away, November 2nd, 2023, I got a call that he was in an army training accident and the Humvee he was in the back of had rolled and he pretty much passed instantly. So yeah, just overnight became a single mom and Have been raising my little girl Addie and she's now four. Ashley Southard: During that time when he deployed, was that a scheduled thing that you knew he was gonna be gone for a set amount of time for? Amy King: Yeah. So he actually the month before had switched units. He had just come off of being a company commander and had switched units to take a step down because he was supposed to be getting out the following May. So this was his first weekend with his new drill unit. And it was a longer, three or four day weekend military like active duty type training. so it was like a planned thing. That was routine, honestly. So he was he left on a Thursday and he was supposed to be back Sunday. Ashley Southard: my goodness. So it wasn't even supposed to be in an extended leave period type of thing. You were expecting this return back pretty s soon. Amy King: yeah. we had Sunday night plans. it was just again routine. He passed on a a state highway. So it was a weird situation of it being military related, but also happening two and a half hours from our house on the road. Ashley Southard: Wow. And you actually wrote a book about your experience through that first year of grief, right? Amy King: Yes. So it's called Saying It Out Loud. I have a copy of it here so you can see a picture of it. but yeah, I wrote it real time. Just I didn't want to forget anything because I had that experience when my dad passed. I just was like grief brain, forgot everything people did for us. And I really wanted to document that for Adeline and just documented what that whole entire first year looked like, just all the ups and downs. You can feel the craziness of in it of like. Selling my house, moving, moving again. I was just so completely all over the place. Ashley Southard: I feel like that's something that really struck me is like I didn't realize the identity crisis I would go through. Not even just in that first year, but I feel like I'm still going through it. I feel like my h head is a bit more above water now, but especially that first year, I was grasping for anything to to make me feel normal. Almost. It was almost like I was fighting that label of being a widow or or fighting the reality of what I was going through. And I did not realize what an identity crisis that would cause for me. Did you also go through that? Amy King: Yeah. I didn't realize I feel like I knew I was in an identity crisis while it was happening. And I felt like I had come to the end of it and was like, okay, this is who I am. I'm accepting this. But again, I didn't really want to be called widow. I was trying to stray from that and be like, I'm just gonna live my life. I'm gonna move forward, not gonna identify with it. I gotta move on. And then year two and year three, especially, I've been more like it's been hitting me hard that I'm a widow and I tried so hard to just get away from that. And I didn't realize I would constantly be in an identity crisis. And that's what's been very striking year three is that you you're in one every year almost as life continues to move forward. Your kids grow up, you're in relationships, that identity crisis just keeps coming and it's very overwhelming and exhausting. Ashley Southard: I feel like for me too, I'm always very aware of the parallel timeline that I would be in. It's like I can be present and acknowledge where I'm at right now in my life and the life that I'm living currently, while also at the same time thinking, Well, this is where I would be if Andy were still alive, or this is what I would be doing if he was still here, or if this hadn't happened to me. So I feel like I'm always not present in both universes, but just very aware of how different they would be. and also that one, obviously doesn't exist anymore in the grief that comes with that. Amy King: Mm-hmm. Yeah, the secondary loss of your future has been really hitting me like a ton of bricks this year. And I don't know if it's because being in serious relationships again and life moving forward, but it's like really striking that I can't go back and it doesn't exist anymore. And and people find that very hard to understand of well then why are you moving forward? I don't understand how you can be happy if you're thinking about that. But it really does just exist forever. I will always wonder what Andy and I's life would have looked like. Ashley Southard: Yeah, absolutely. And and too, we were so young, And so there was just this almost I think it's a double edged sword, right? So there's this this shouldn't be happening to me yet, but it is. And then you find this community Amy King: Yeah. I find myself comparing to a lot of other widows. And sometimes it brings me comfort. I'll meet a widow who, was remarried a couple of years after and has kids with their new husband. And it gives me okay, I can I can move forward. and then I meet people who are not ready to date yet. And I'm I'm constantly comparing, To what everybody else is doing because it's such a foreign place to be. And there really is no wrong. it's just your way and you just go with it. And we are gonna make mistakes. And that's what sucks is we're under such a microscope that, before when I made mistakes in my life, no one knew, but my husband. But now, everybody's always wondering how you're navigating it, what you're doing, and then always has something to say. it's just such a judgmental place to be, even Even if you feel like you're not doing anything, it's like you're doing something wrong. Ashley Southard: Absolutely. And you can never make everyone happy. I feel like Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: that was the biggest realization for me is that I could do grief the way everyone wanted me to, but then everyone else would be pissed off at the same time. it's like if you please one person, you're not pleasing everyone and if you're pleasing everyone, you're definitely not pleasing yourself. And it can be really, really exhausting to live up to those expectations all of the time. And, when I started posting on social media, I think for me, in sharing my grief journey, I wanted to be seen and understood in in a life that I felt I was unseen and misunderstood in and, naively thought the internet was the place that I was gonna find that. and boy have I been humbled. But I think that there are definitely perks to it. I've made so many friendships and so many connections in this community and amongst other grievers and widows that have really helped me in my journey. But I definitely can agree that being under a microscope can make you question every single decision that you make. And then if you see another widow doing it differently, you start to really like look at yourself and go, Well, am I doing it wrong? But it's I think part of that is just learning to be comfortable in who you are now and I think all of that can probably be traced back to that initial identity crisis that Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: we go through. Amy King: Yeah. And it helps to just have your core your core four people who you can really just I can say everything to and I'm not worried that I sound crazy most days, even things I feel now. And not many people can just sit with you in that and not be like, Well, you did this too soon. Well, you did this. that's not helpful. I've already done it and I've already I'm in it and I'm I'm taking it with what I feel like I'm ready to do. And sure, I've made mistakes along the way. We all have. there's no way to do this perfectly. No one gave us a rule book for what happens when you die. it's it's just a lot at such a young age. we're speaking the language no one else is speaking. Ashley Southard: but the fear of making mistakes in public has almost kept me from making decisions in general Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: and and probably from a lot of happiness I know in my current relationship that was definitely something poor Matt I made that man chase me like all around he had on running shoes because I I remember meeting him and thinking okay, he's a good guy and we went on a couple dates and just my friends were so excited about it. And I remember being like, No, I'm not dating anyone. I don't wanna date anyone. I wanna be alone. I wanna be this widow that the kids gossip about in this cottage with twelve cats that they're afraid to walk past my house at night. that's what I'm looking for. and just he was so persistent and thankfully he was, but I think a lot that played into that was not only my grief and self preservation, but also just being so afraid to make another mistake, and to do it publicly. Amy King: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It takes such a strong man. Go Tim and Matt. Because Ashley Southard: Tim and that Amy King: yeah, he really is like he, it's just crazy to me that he is the one in with my grief more than anyone. And probably Ashley Southard: Mm. Amy King: has the most judgment for being in the situation when nine times out of ten, he is the one here with me when I'm going through it. Ashley Southard: Yeah. And you guys have been together now for going on a year and a three years and Amy King: Two years. Two years, yeah. Ashley Southard: two years, sorry, two years. And in that process and w w did you feel like you slowly opened the floodgates of your grief, testing the waters to see what would be too much for him. And I asked that question personally, because that's how I've approached things, is like I think I've slowly let the floodgates go as opposed Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: to just all of it out front immediately. and I'm not sure which approach. obviously everyone's journey is is different, but I'm just curious how other people have approached that in dating again. Amy King: Yeah, I feel like Pretty early on, I was very clear about where Andy was gonna stand in my life forever. That photos would be in my house always and things like that. And I was like very clear on all of that. But I feel like the grief slowly definitely started to come out because it comes out so differently. sometimes I'm like angry or I'm short or I'm irritable or like, and he knows my tells so well now. if I'm starting to get irritable or angry and just in a mood for a couple of days. And then on the fifth day, I'm bawling and wailing in my bed. And he'll just be like, I knew this was coming. I could tell that you were on edge and something was bothering you. And he almost knows when it's grief before I do now, just from watching me. But it did he learned with me honestly the past two years. I had to learn that that was grief when I would get that or I was learning what was grief and what was not almost alongside of him. but I I would say it was slow, my moods coming out. But now I'm really good at being like, I'm feeling this, I need space or I need and he doesn't take it personally now if I'm like, I just need space. he understands that now of like me wanting to be left alone. He's very empathetic. So it's hard for him to give me that space. But he understands now, it took us a long time. To develop that, this is me, not you. Ashley Southard: Yeah. That's comforting to hear because that's definitely something that I have a hard time navigating of wanting to be like, Hey, I need a minute. I need to just and he I was very upfront with my grief. As a matter of fact, our first date, my mom had taken Hallie for the weekend and it was just me. I was supposed to go out of town, but I decided not to. It was Valentine's Day weekend and I invited him over to watch a movie and I remember texting my friends in my group chat and being like, Should I explain the situation or just let him walk into my house and see the shrine of my husband judge his reaction in real time. And they all voted to see how it played out. And so I did. I didn't warn him ahead of time. and he came in and, there's obviously a folded flag and pictures of my husband everywhere and his ashes are sitting under my TV and Amy King: Okay. Ashley Southard: so we're sitting down to watch a movie on that TV and I just blurted it out. and was very clear from the beginning, I will always do memorials, we will always talk about Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: him. He is a present person in our house, even if he his absence is louder than you think that presence is. For us it's not because raising his daughter and we keep him very forward. But I think like you, sometimes it's hard for me to recognize what is grief. because I'm someone who's always been overstimulated. I have ADHD, I'm I'm overwhelmed. Overwhelmed on a good day. That's my baseline. Amy King: Same. Ashley Southard: And so I think a lot of the times it's hard for me to identify. just recent when we were scheduling this, even, I think you and I were texting about a day to do this, and I said, Well, you said Monday or Tuesday, and I looked at the calendar and I realized that's Andy's death date. And that I was gonna be there for the memorial. And then it all clicked into place because I have been so emotional, so temperamental. My patience has been literally zero. and I will jump from this range of being like super grateful and joyful and just really soaking in the moment. And then five minutes later I'm sobbing. And Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: for a second I was like, Well, maybe it's my period, or maybe it's whatever. And then you and I had that conversation. I was like, my body knew. My body Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: knew it. was coming up before I even really acknowledged it. and that's something that catches me off guard a lot. Amy King: Yeah, same. It's it still does. And it's it's so different this year because I feel like I was more self-aware of it in the earlier years. And now I'm like, it comes out like that. And then I'm like, yeah, something important's happening. That's why this is happening. and I think people on the outside look at I was having a conversation with him about someone saying, I didn't understand this, that why couldn't Amy just like Be all in on Tim and let that settle. And he explained, I'm raising Andy's daughter. And then it clicked. this is never going away. he has the responsibility of raising Andy's child. it's not simple. and I didn't divorce Andy. I didn't choose for him to leave my life. I still love him. And I think also why people like Tim and Matt stay is because. We also love so hard and know how to love and have had this grief and makes us love people better. Cause I feel like some people probably look at me and Tim and are like, why is he with her? this is a lot. why is he dealing with how much she posts about Andy or X, Y, and Z? And it's because of how much I also pour into him. people don't see that side of how good I am to him. That's why he can handle this part because I also can pour in and give that same amount of love to him. Ashley Southard: Yeah, it's like if we can love this ferociously in death, imagine what it's like in life. Like, Amy King: A my. Ashley Southard: imagine what we can pour into the people that are there to receive that love. And I think I I would even go a little further in to say that I've always been someone who who feels the extremes of emotion. Even when I feel nothing, I feel it at the extreme, I'm all in on something. And I think grief has made me appreciate and acknowledge that loving someone else is agreeing to grief again, whether it is in five years or ten years or fifty years, regardless, we know it's coming and we know how real that is. And Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: I think agreeing to love again, knowing what it costs, is even more it carries more weight. Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: Because we know what we stand to lose and what that means, truly what it means and how to love someone in the now. And I think that is something that people overlook a lot about widows is like they see us we're criticized no matter what, right? there's no winning anyway. If we if we're still crying about our husbands, we need to let go and move on. If we let go and move forward and and don't talk about it, then we've just forgotten, screw that guy. She just moved on, whatever. And then there are people that they're gonna pick one side or the other depending on what day it is. And Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: I think It's heavy. It's so heavy to carry and to constantly monitor everyone around you's emotions. I'm sure you do it too, but when you have those hard grief days, when you are bawling in the bed on day five, when you're done, he's there, he supports you, but when you're done, it's almost like this. Okay, I need to check in. I need to check in where he's at. I need to check in how he's feeling and what emotions came up for him about this for me. And while that's important to do, I I think it's an unseen weight that we carry. Amy King: Yep. Yeah. we're both equally worried about each other. I'm always like, Are you okay with this? Or I know this is gonna be a lot of a heavy Andy week. And how can I check in with you? And then we were at church last week at a worship night, and he's like bawling his eyes out for me. his he's like, I hate the pain that you're feeling right now. So it's like just such empathy on both sides. And I think that's such a key is just both being givers and being able to sit in that and not take things personally. Ashley Southard: And to Tim's credit also being that space to you said, he's gone through grief with you, and I'm sure that's such an asset to your daughter to see someone grieve him with you that h and that keeps him present for her as well, right? Amy King: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't have it any other way. it's and newsflash to everyone, it's actually harder to be in a relationship. it's made me confront so much more of my grief that I probably wouldn't have confronted for years. it's not easy. It's not like all just woo, moving forward, new life, new me. it makes me confront a lot of stuff that I had no idea. We have no I I have no idea what's gonna come up next week. there's always something that like. a conversation or something that makes me have to confront more and more of my grief, which I only think can be healthy. Ashley Southard: yeah. Absolutely. Well and too, how do you heal from something unless you know that it's a sore spot, we can heal and we can do the work as much as we want to in ourselves on our own, but until you start dating someone and someone pokes that wound, you don't know it's there. you don't know those triggers to one, prepare prepare for, but also how to manage. And we say it all the time. Grief and joy can exist in the same person. And I think we spend so much time trying to convince the rest of the world that we can hold both, that we stop acknowledging while we can and we are, it's heavy. It's heavy. Yeah. So hard. Amy King: Yeah, it's still hard. Yeah. And that's not, I'm not telling everyone to go date to heal, but I'm saying those who are dating Ashley Southard: Yeah. Amy King: are still healing. They're not healed. Ashley Southard: until you go through it, there is absolutely no convincing anyone of the reality of it. We can explain it till we're blue in the face. We can, index every emotion that comes through and how hard it is and and talk about it and be emotional with it. But until someone experiences it themselves, they don't know the weight of it. And and I think that's the most frustrating part for me is how isolating that can feel sometimes. Amy King: Yeah. And just there's so many people that won't know this depth of grief. There's so many people in our lives who will not know this depth for a long time, which I wouldn't want them to, but it makes it Ashley Southard: Right. Amy King: so much harder to just be yourself through it all in front of people because you feel I feel crazy every other day. I feel crazy every other day. I don't recognize my life, even though I'm happy. it's it's so much self-talk of like. It it's crazy the self talk every single day. Ashley Southard: I wish I would shut up. in my head, I'm like, Amy King: Me too. Ashley Southard: can you please leave me alone? I need some space. I'm going no contact with myself because Amy King: Yes. Ashley Southard: the way my brain is just constantly monitoring, mirroring, it like looking around, assessing for danger and but the way my brain never shuts up. in compensating for literally everything around me and also monitoring emotions and also trying to be cognizant of my own emotions. I feel insane. Half I don't think there's a drug on the market that could help with that. And one thing, my gosh. So I don't know about you, but before my husband died, if I saw a notification on my phone I needed to clear it. I could not stand that little red bubble on my messages. It would drive me crazy. I was like, my gosh, I have a message. I need to check it. Same with phone calls. I don't know what switch flipped in me, but after he died I like literally right now I can probably look and tell you I have five hundred and twenty-two unread text messages. Old me would lose her marbles over that, but new me, it's like that was the one thing I realized that I could take off my plate. I didn't have to reply right then. and that I think that was a way that I compensated with the constant noise in my brain all the time. Amy King: Have the same. I had 500 messages, 50,000 emails, 90 voicemails. And I kid you not, a couple of weeks ago, I went and cleaned it all up. It took me hours of sitting in Starbucks. And it I ended up my location stopped sharing with a bunch of people. Cause when you delete message threads, it like you're Ashley Southard: Yeah. Amy King: and so everyone was texting me, why'd you turn your location off? And I'm like, I finally cleaned out my inbox and I had everything at zero. now it's it's moving back up. But For me, I let go of so many little things now. I used to be psychotic about my home and organization and things like that. And I vividly remember how much I would be on Andy about I just cleaned the kitchen. why'd you put a dish in the sink? I just did this. Why couldn't you put in the dishwasher? I was so crazy about that stuff. And I I could get into a whole nother topic about the soul, knowing. When someone's gonna die. But basically, I had a moment the night he was leaving where his sweatshirt was on the back of the couch. he would always come in and dump all his stuff on the back of the couch. And I remember being like, what he needs to go put this away. And I almost said it. And I was like, no, he's going out of town. don't say it. He's got a lot going on. He's stressed. just put the sweatshirt away. Don't say anything tonight. And I didn't. And I will never forget it, but I did not nag him. About the sweatshirt he left on the back of the couch. And it makes me such a better person in my relationship now that I carry so much guilt. And I think that's why our brains are so crazy because there's constant guilt about things we wish we would have done differently that we're doing now, things that we're getting to do now that we didn't get to do with them, moving forward with our life. my brain is so busy because of. The guilt. And I saw a post the other day that was saying, it's not even guilt sometimes. It's a weirdness of getting a paycheck from the military with because they died. It's the weirdness of it sometimes, not even the guilt, but the weirdness of the life that we have to live and we only get to live it because our husband died. And then the guilt of being a better like partner in some ways and wishing you would have done things differently. I could, there's a million things. I am a better. Person to Tim because of Andy dying and because of what I had to confront of how I was and how much I realized doesn't matter anymore. Ashley Southard: Yeah, I agree. I think grief has simultaneously made me meaner. and kinder, like, Amy King: Yes. Ashley Southard: on both ends of the spectrum. I feel like it's made me a better person, but it's also made me a person who I do not negotiate on my boundaries anymore. that's my boundary, that's my line and that's it. And I can be brutal once it's crossed because life is short and I and no one knows that better than us. And, I so I I loved hearing that story about Andy's sweatshirt because had a very similar moment where Andy was deployed and he had been gone for like it was twenty seven days. He died on the twenty seventh day, but so this was the day he died and we I had a newborn or not a newborn. She was 15 months old but she was breastfeeding. She was still coming out of that colicy stage. No one could hold her but me. And I mean Amy King: Same. Ashley Southard: that so literally she was such a Velcro baby. I would hold her and then hike this side of my pants down and then swap her and hike this side of my pants down just to go pee. And I remember I was so burnt out and exhausted and Andy was my reprieve. So that deployment was devastating to me for so many reasons, but also because I lost my co parent, my partner who was coming to save me. And I remember that morning wanting to pick a fight, how we do in marriages. It's like we're feeling an emotion, so we need to pick a fight so we can let that emotion out. And I remember that morning wanting to pick a fight and be like, I'm I I hate this deployment. I hate this unit. I hate all these things that we we've decided to do and and all of this and I wanted to melt down and something and I normally would. I'm not anyone who ever holds back. But Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: I is it just struck me where I was like, No, don't don't pick a fight with him today. We can talk about it later. don't put this weight on him today when he's flying. And I also knew he was re-enlisting that day. He re-enlisted the day he died. And I knew how excited he was about it. And I didn't want to dampen any of that joy. And something just told me inside, no, don't pick a fight right now. And so I took the FaceTime call that morning and I didn't let any of that come out or any of those frustrations. And that was like last time I've talked to him and I don't know how I would have handled it if that conversation had gone differently. If we had ended up fighting, if I had picked that fight and then he died and I never would have we never would have gotten to the good part of fighting where you make up and you're happy and in love again and Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: I don't know where I would be. if that had been our last conversation. So it's so strange that we both had such a similar experience there. Amy King: Yeah. And even even Andy had that experience. it was the day before he died. he was he was leaving that Thursday night to go stay, or that Wednesday night to go stay. And then they were waking up Thursday morning to start. And so that Wednesday, he had told me I'm I'm gonna, he was always working late. And he's like, I'm gonna work till six or seven and then I'm gonna pack my bag and then I'm gonna head to drive down there. okay, so then I'm like cleaning the house, doing my my stuff. And he's like texted me and was like, I'm coming home at one. And I was like, why? And he was like, I just want to be home. And I was like, okay. So he came home and I made this new recipe. It was like a chicken pot pie bake with crescent rolls on top. And I'll never forget it. He like ate the entire pan and he was like, Let's go get Addy from school together. And I was like, Why? why don't you just go get her? And he was like, I want to, I want to go together. And I was like, Okay, this is weird, us both going to pick her up. And so we pick her up together and she's throwing a fit, she's cranky, and I'm like getting annoyed. And he was like, Let's just go to Starbucks and let her get a pouch and we'll get a coffee and we'll just sit in Starbucks. We go to Starbucks and him and I had like A long conversation, great conversation about the future, the house we are building. And she's running around Starbucks in a great mood now. And then he came home, he cleaned out his nightstand and his bathroom, which I had been saying for months, you really need to clean this out and organize it. It was so eerie because then when I went to go through his stuff, it was mostly cleared out because he had done that that day. And it was so bizarre. And then we did bathtime and bedtime together and he put her to bed and he was trying to sneak out so she wouldn't cry. And I got on him and I said, Don't sneak out on her. she knows that you're here. you need to say goodbye. And so he gave her a proper goodbye and then he left. But it was just like, Ashley Southard: Yeah. Amy King: I s I see people say that all the time of weird things like that the day before someone dies. And it's like, does our soul know, before our body, that it's our time? does our soul know our time? And sometimes I'm like. Yeah, that's crazy. But it was just such an odd day that was so unlike him to want to come home early and do that. Ashley Southard: And I'm sure that that's definitely something like you cherish too about that. And I had I had tickets. I remember he had come home on the thirteenth of October and he deployed on the fifteenth. So he had been gone for two weeks to Virginia and he I had tickets that night to go see the Taylor Swift eras movie. it had just come out. It was dropping that night. My friend and I had tickets. We were so excited, we're getting the popcorn buckets. we were gonna go do all this. And I obviously still could have gone because Andy was coming home and he would keep Hallie for me and it would be the break that I needed after him being gone for two and a half weeks. But something told me like cancel. don't go do this because we didn't know he was gonna deploy, but we knew it was a possibility because he had been put on alert. but he had been put on alert so many times where nothing happened, well whatever. So I kinda treated it like that and then I'm so glad I cancelled and I reflect Amy King: Wow. Ashley Southard: back on that decision all the time because we got that extra time together to just be a family and the pictures that I took the day he deployed and the videos of him and Hallie not knowing that those would be the last videos that I would ever have of the two of them. and just how hard it is to look back and see all the ways that your soul was like fighting to hold on to pieces of them and I read something once right after Andy died, I went into this like we go insane. I swear we do. Because I was so convinced. I emailed, I should pull it up. I might pull it up and try to plug it here because I emailed Elon Musk and I was like, I know you have a time machine. I know you do. Amy King: I love you. Ashley Southard: I was like, tell me, Elon, right now where it's at. I wanna know. Amy King: That's very Ashley coded. Ashley Southard: It's because I I had just I was I was staying up. I had had insomnia, I couldn't sleep without him. It was day three, no sleep. And it just I was like, if I had a time machine, I could go back and I could stop him from going on this deployment. I could throw a fit, I could lay in front of the C17 that shipped him out. I would call in a bomb threat. I don't know, but I could stop that from happening. And so I look up SpaceX and the contact information and I was like Listen here, Mr. Musk. I know you have a time machine and I want it. And so, but I just I went crazy, but during that time, I also was searching through lots of information on the internet, read it pages of near death experiences and YouTube, ideas of it and all this stuff, and I f came across something that said something about a soul contract and how you And your person, your soulmate, entered into this soul contract before you ever came to this life. You agreed to love each other, you agreed to what happened, you agreed to the children you would have, you agreed to his death, even because of what it meant for the next life. And I don't know why that brought me so much peace in the moment, but it brought me an immeasurable amount of peace to think like Okay, this is the tragedy that I have to live in this life, and maybe it's for the betterment of his daughter, maybe it's for the betterment of I don't know. But I maybe it means that in the next life we do get forever and it isn't cut short and we have this, beautiful life together. And one of those near death experiences that I was watching was this woman who said that she had had a heart attack and she goes to this other place and she's in front of this like all benevolent being and he shows her what her life would look like if she chose not to go back and what her daughter's life would look like and her husband and then what it would look like if she chose to stay in the afterworld. And so and go on. and she decided to go back and I really got to thinking about it and I was like, I know my husband And I know that if that were the case for him, if this all benevolent being showed him what mine and Hallie's and Jack's life would look like if he didn't go back and then if he did and he saw that, he would change policy and procedure and protocol that would save so many aviation lives because his crash did put in a lot of those things that will save so many aviation lives in the future. And, who his daughter gets to be. I I just I know who he was and he was the better of us, a hundred percent. And I know that if he saw if it wasn't true, even if he just perceived that we would do something great or he would do something great if he didn't come back, he would choose that for us. And that was also a really I said I was not gonna cry on this podcast. Ugh. The person that he was, I just I know that if he could give something even his life to make someone else's better, he would. And Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: that brings me a good amount of peace knowing Amy King: Mm. Ashley Southard: that that's he would want us to go on and to live and to find joy and to find love and to make the most. of this life. And I Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: feel like that's a part people misunderstand a lot too, is like it would be a slap in the face to the men who died for us and who loved us so much to to entertain the idea that they would not ever want anyone to love us again. That they would want us to be lonely, that they would want us to, hurt is Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: it's honestly a character assassination, in my book because how could you think that my husband would want anything other than joy and love for me? And no matter how hard that is to balance, I still owe it to him to try. Amy King: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's definitely my faith that gets me through where I'm like, if this, if if my testimony and Andy's story bring people closer in their faith journey and make heaven crowded, then to me, it's worth it, which is like took me a long time to get to that place. for me, it's my faith. But I do laugh when I hear those near death experiences sometimes and they're like, I had a choice if I wanted to go back or not. And sometimes I picture Andy and I'm like, did he get a choice? And he was just like, see you later. Ashley Southard: Why are you not here? No, I said it all the time. obviously dead serious still funny. Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: I I'm like, bro, you couldn't have waited till the toddler was potty trained to peace out. if you have a choice to come back and I find out when I get up there I'm kicking your ass. Amy King: did he have a choice? But I do think it's there is no pain in like what I believe. And so I'm like, of course, I know he was, I know he felt peace. So that brings me peace. I'm like, he is not suffering, like I am suffering. And I do believe that. but yeah, I'm it's it's crazy to just, of course, we probably That's what's been driving me crazy this year three is thinking about just his final moments and not knowing. It's like we did everything together, high school and on, and it just feels like he beat me to something that I don't know. after doing our whole lives together. I'm like, I can't I can't know that. And I don't know what that moment was like. Ashley Southard: Yeah. And that I really struggled with that as well. And I struggled with the military withholding a lot of that information. Amy King: Mm-hmm. Ashley Southard: because he stopped being government property when he died for that government, but he will always be mine. He was mine before and he was mine after. So how can you tell me what I am entitled to about my husband's final moments Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: and how frustrating that is. and I remember trying to piece together any little piece of it, to know how he felt and and and if he was well if he was scared or any of those things and like your Andy, my Andy went out immediately. was it was a very, very quick death, which I'm very thankful for. He I'm sure you know, but for the listeners that don't, my husband died in a helicopter crash over the Mediterranean Sea and there was no water found in his lungs on his autopsy report. And that was my biggest fear is that he had drowned. Because that was like it's a really painful way to go. It's like a really miserable way to go. And so, Amy King: Yeah. Ashley Southard: I trying to piece together all of those little pieces and then also finding an institution that wants to give you as little information as possible, was so hard for me and and honestly, the reason that I advocate so hard in that community still and and do the job that I do, because I think it's really important to not make someone's widow the collateral damage in the tragedy that they're already living. Amy King: Yeah. Well, I commend you for that because you helped me. I was in the same situation. I wasn't getting my briefing or anything. And you definitely were a catalyst for that. And it's you you made me feel less crazy because I hadn't really heard that part of your story yet from what I had followed. And I was like, on the outside, I was like, okay, she must have had this great experience. And To know I was not alone in that. And then the more I got roped into it and people started DMing me and being like, this happened to me, this happened to me, this happened to me. It was overwhelming. And I was like, this is crazy. Ashley Southard: There are so many good people fighting for so many good things in that machine. but unfortunately there are just as many to oppose them and and that do cause the damage. And I try to keep from speaking one way or the other about it myself just because I don't wanna discourage the ones that are doing right. but I think that I I personally would love to see a huge overhaul in how surviving families are treated and how they can make genuine efforts to minimize the collateral damage that comes after. Amy King: Yeah, I love that. Ashley Southard: Will they ever listen to me? Probably not. Elon Musk didn't. He did not offer me his time machine. So I'm gonna have to Amy King: That is so funny. I'm so glad I know that. I feel less crazy for some of the things I did. Ashley Southard: I was so out of my mind. I'm I definitely have to find that email. I wonder if his assistant got that and was like Can you imagine being Amy King: You're on a list somewhere. Ashley Southard: the person that gets that email from me? wow, fun. Amy King: Yeah, you're on a list for sure. Ashley Southard: But I'm so thankful that you came on today and that we got to talk about all of this and just hearing your story and hearing, the similarities and everything, it just makes me feel less alone and I hope that it makes other people listening to this also feel less alone. That if they are crazy and message a billion dollar CEO in the middle of the night demanding one of their products, that they feel a little less alone. and and just like that comfort. I think there's so much power that comes in sharing our stories. We we hear birth stories all the time, we hear wedding stories and engagement stories all the time, but it's taboo to bring up a death story. But I think there's so much healing to be had in the before, the during and the after of letting people know that they're not alone and they're not crazy and having that camaraderie that doesn't make you feel so isolated when you already are facing unimaginable isolation. Amy King: Yeah, I I think that's the only way, especially young widows get through this is when they're ready, having people to just relate to of all the insanity. Cause there's stuff like I did not say out loud. And I went to a widows conference and someone said something that I was like, girl, I have been thinking that, but I'm so scared to say that. And then Ashley Southard: Yeah. Amy King: that's when I that was really changed the trajectory for me of like. I need widow friends. And that's what I've really worked on this year. Cause I'm like, they do get it. I'm not the only one thinking these off the wall things. Ashley Southard: No, no. And I th for that reason, I will never judge a widow for anything at all ever. Amy King: Never. Ashley Southard: And you can say something to me and I'm like, you know what? Same. Or hell yeah, as you should. there's just so many different aspects of grief that make you feel so crazy and that sometimes just getting to give voice to it takes power from it. And I think that's really important to not only acknowledge for ourselves, but to be a safe space for for the ones around us. Amy King: Yeah. Well thank you so much for having me. Ashley Southard: Amy, thank you so much for being here. I'm so honored to have you on the podcast. I'm so grateful for your friendship and the ways that you have shown up in this widow community. And I was so honored to hear your story this evening. If you guys want to grab a copy of her book, it is available on Amazon. It will be in the description notes. And as always, we can be dead serious and still funny. I love you.