Latest / The Liminal Lounge Mediums / Ep. 12 | The Dark Side of Spiritual Communities

Transcript

Ep. 12 | The Dark Side of Spiritual Communities · The Liminal Lounge Mediums

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, everybody.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the Liminal Lounge Mediums.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I am Lorenda Carr and I am here with Michelle Euler and Carrie Coss.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, my friends.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, good friends.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Good to be here.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: So today, today we are going to talk about something that I think most of us who have spent any time um exploring spirituality have encountered.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Spiritual communities, right?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Finding people who I know, finding people who understand your experiences can be incredibly validating, right?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Spiritual communities can give us a place to learn, to practice, ask questions, find mentors, and sometimes finally feel like we've found people who speak our language, right?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: But community also influences us.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the people we surround ourselves with can shape what we believe, how we interpret or our spiritual experiences, what we accept as truth, and even what we are willing to question.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So today we want to explore both sides of the spiritual community.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I can't wait to hear what Michelle and Carrie have to say.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, what does a healthy spiritual community look like?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: What are the green flags and the red flags?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: What does belong when does belonging start becoming conformity?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And how does a hive mind develop?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have so many questions I know.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And at what point can a spiritual community cross the line from being supportive into something controlling or even cult-like?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe the bigger question underneath all of it is how do we allow ourselves to be part of a spiritual community without giving that community authority over our own discernment?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So yummy stuff.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, Michelle, I know, Michelle and Carrie, let's start there.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: When you hear the words spiritual community, what comes up for you, Michelle?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, let's do it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with what uh what I believe a spiritual community should be.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with that, right?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't always, but it should be.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It should be a place where we can come together in solidarity, where we can come together in a loving community of like-minded people who um who support us in our spiritual growth.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: They help us explore, help us determine and and find our own beliefs in all of this, right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also think that uh a good spiritual community can help us take uh have a clearer look at ourselves, like they can provide some feedback uh as we're learning and growing.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely a good spiritual community.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are leaders who we can look to as mentors.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: They've been there, they've done it, uh, and they can lovingly offer their perspective on things.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you know, we find them in all kinds of different settings.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, there are there are the traditional uh religious communities, if you will, all the way to like yoga communities, pagan groups, development circles, and it could even be just a group of friends who get together uh to explore spirituality together.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think overall it's this inclusive, beautiful, accepting.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I would want in my spiritual community.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, accepting place where we can safely explore, and it's okay to agree to disagree, and everyone is on their own journey at the same time we're holding each other's hands.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of what I would say.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Carrie?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Spiritual community is very important to me.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the idea that we have a safe space, as you both said so well, where we can be ourselves, be accepted, heal, grow, come into our abilities however they arrive, and integrate things into our daily practice in a powerful way.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And also, we can troubleshoot when we're having difficulty and we feel challenged by something, and depending on what you're focusing on.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, maybe, like you said, it might be more related to a practice you're learning or something that you're working on in your journey.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so, my idea when I think about a spiritual community often is a circle, and it's like the Knights of the Round Circle, we're all in a circle, there's not a hierarchy, we're a community based in a joint values, and so it should also be a sacred space where we hold space for each other and we protect each other's conf, and in we can say things in confidence, and we can work on healing and our daily life is so there's so much to it, and so it's in its highest form, that's what it is in my heart.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree, I agree, yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I and and it's so important to be able to find within those communities that that healthy space with that balance of like where you can say the weird thing and know that you're not going to be judged for it, or that someone else might be go, me too, you know.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, and and honestly, Carrie, I love what you said about um it being a sacred space.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this should be a circle of trust, right?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: We should be able to um share our experiences and be able to, even as the res like the listener in that community, to be able to be like, wow, even if you don't understand what they're going through or what they're dealing with or what they're experiencing, to be able to go, whoa, to be open-minded enough in a community.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna belong belong to that community, be open-minded enough to go, wow, their experience is very different than mine, and theirs is just as valid.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right, absolutely, right, yeah, so true.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, so what what other things do you guys feel like could make you feel safe in in a spiritual community?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know I would want to be heard, I would want to not feel judged, um, but also in a spiritual community, I also want to be kind of held accountable if in to to a degree.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I'm saying something that's gonna be hurtful, then I want a I want my spiritual community to be feel safe enough to be like, hey, ooh, let's talk about that, but in a safe way, in a safe, healthy way, not a condemnation.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's out because she said the weird thing.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I don't want to.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, what what do you guys think?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: What what what makes you feel safe in a spiritual community?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Carrie, let's start with you.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think just what you said, Lorenda, when you know you're not judged and you know that your vulnerability is held in confidence, and that it's you don't you, as the participant, don't need to fix the other members, but holding space and community, it it does create that sense of sanctuary ease, and that they can go through their highs and lows, like we talked about in the last episode and their experiences, which inevitably happen, but they know they have this safe space to land.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to feel that way, and I that is very important to me as a value that I carry with me in every aspect of my life, and so I expect that in a community if I'm going to be investing it or opening up or sharing that it has that tenant, it's a tenant of the community, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, and what do you think, Michelle?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I would like to get your perspective, you as a developing meeting, because we're always developing, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But as a teacher, like what are your expectations of a leader of a group in in in keeping it a healthy, healthy boundary?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, absolutely.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it seems in our in our culture right now, and maybe it's always been this way, but it just seems like it's becoming more and more so, that it's not okay to disagree.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've noticed that.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you don't see it just like someone else does or the norm, the norm, you know, then they people get defensive or they they get their feathers ruffled or whatever.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think as a leader, I at least strive for this.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to believe when I'm leading a circle, for example, I want to believe that the message I'm sending is you can disagree with me.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am, I don't hold the all the answers or the absolute truth to everything.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: No one does, you know.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're all exploring and learning.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what I love about a healthy community, um, spiritual community, is that we're all growing and exploring and learning together.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I learn as much from the students who come into my circle as they're learning from me.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're learning together, you know.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think a healthy leader is the facilitator.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I do agree.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have to say I'm very grateful to some of the mentors I've had who have helped me understand ethical mediumship, things that I may not have even thought of, you know, like, oh yeah, that's right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I need to think about that, you know.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they can bring that with through their experience because they've been there, done that, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: They they've experienced these things.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that experience, I guess, is what I'm looking for in a leader.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was your question, you know, what should the leader, yeah, leader's role be?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think the leader should bring experience.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've been down that road, so I know what you probably can expect to find, or um, you know, what what the obstacles are going to be when you go down that road.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a that's different, in my opinion, than saying you need to believe exactly what I believe, you know.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that then that's a that's a really good point.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or even like you need me.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a there's a fine line between you know, between between here's here's my thoughts, here's here's what spirit's giving me to tell you, um, and versus no, you can't go out in the world without me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I know a number of mediums who double down and they will say, um, and they're like naturally uh what I would call naturally gifted mediums.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that we all have the gift, we all have the gift is the is the ability to develop it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's my opinion.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um we all already have it, we're already wired for it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you what are your thoughts on on people who say let me back up?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do I want to ask this?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: There are people who are adamant that they do not need community, that spirit's gonna teach them everything they need to know, versus developing within a community and and growing in that way.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what what either one of you have thoughts on that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that, so as an example, that's a very interesting topic, Lorinda.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because I say this, I don't know everything.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe for them that's the way that they have developed the deepest part of their spiritual path.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I I so I of course I've developed with communities.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have a long, long list of stories to tell, but I've had years and years when I was in the desert alone with my guides and my higher self, and I had so much enrichment during that time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't really say what's black and white for someone else.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I always say, and I know both of you two do the same, I would have to see them work, you know, like I'd have to see if someone's saying that and they're not and they don't have a sense of humility and being open and they have arrogance and they uh believe something so much they're not open, then I would say that's another conversation that I would probably say maybe you need to reconsider.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's my point.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of keep an open mind to that because my friend Keisha, you know, we interviewed her last year, and yes, yes, she's on a podcast.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: She's learned from mentors, but I don't think she's ever had, but not necessarily directly, right?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So she's watched classes, she's done things.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Has she worked in training like all of us have?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's an interesting, it's an interesting conversation.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Michelle, what do you what do you think?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I um I love that Carrie, you answered that first because uh that's a really beautiful way to look at that, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're all different, we're all gonna have a very unique experience.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Spirituality, I think, is a very personal journey.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I can and I I can only speak for my myself, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like my own experience.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: The community, uh when I think about like developing mediumship, for example, I'm not sure how I could have done that without a community to practice with, you know.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I love, I think that community has helped me grow more.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I love what Carrie said, but yeah, because yeah, I think about how many times I've sat in just meditation with my guides and how much has been revealed to me that I wouldn't have got, wouldn't have received in a community setting, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I needed that alone time.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think both are relevant.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and personally, I also am so grateful for the circles I've been in, those sacred circles.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they offer something I can't get by myself.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's how I would answer that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I and I'm with I I agree with both of you.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that um that it's I have learned deeply from both myself and just spirit, as well as my communities.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes in my community, I've learned I've learned how not to act.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I'm being honest, and we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk about green flags and red flags as we go along.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have have have no worries, friends.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have have no worries.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to touch on that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I think that it's really important that we get to know spirit very well or and our deepen our relationship with spirit.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, we can do that with with mentors, we can do that with our friends who are also going through the same thing, be like, hey, I got this weird download.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: How's that come in for you?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a great way to process our own learning, um, and and and help us discern maybe what we are learning within the communities, utilizing our spirit team, utilizing our relationship with spirit on our own to discern what is for us and what is not for us out of that community, because what works for somebody else in a community might not work for me, but it's still having that a healthy community is going to be the safe place to be yourself and to be the authentic version of you as a practitioner and do what spirit has in mind for you or what your path is supposed to be, and still feel like you are part of something bigger, part of a collective, and being on a journey with other people is been has been a great benefit to me.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wouldn't uh I mean, we've told the story before.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know Michelle because of a tap dance community, and then we just happened to come together in this weird, strange way on the same in the similar path, and now we're in a similar community for learning.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie, I got to know through a community of other people that were no longer associated with because it because because it took a turn.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna say that it took a turn, it it did not it did not break us, it didn't, it was just it's just we got what we needed, but ultimately that community brought Carrie and I together.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we got and then which we got cheated, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, you know, I think that uh I lost my train of thought.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go a whole different direction, but then we had something else.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so let's talk about.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I like to start on a positive note.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's just who I am.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: What let's talk about maybe some green flags.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about green flags.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: What are some positive things that we want to look for?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: If if we are looking for community, what should motivate us to look?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: What should motivate us to look for a community?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what are some of the things that we go, that's what I want.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I want to see.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: What are some green flags for you guys in in spiritual communities and spiritual spaces?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie, do you want to jump in there first?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I will I'll especially because I'll talk about in what I try to create in the space that I have myself, and then when I'm in other communities, what I like.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I think when you're approaching this as the new, you know, member approaching it is that you want to feel a sense in your intuition that you feel safe, calm, welcome, that people are open.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I think that's you tuning into your intuition from the very beginning.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing to note is that uh when you are working together or learning something, is do you really have a space to be able to open, be openly asked questions, to be able to explore and to even maybe have a question about why an exercise is being done?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think there should be a level of can you make this make sense to me?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that means openness from both your mentor and the other students and a welcoming, a feeling of yes, that makes sense.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about that.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other point being is that do you feel supported?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like the tenant, the pillar that it's built on is based upon uh I would say confidentiality, that your experience is not going to be shared outside of the space.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, do you feel as though people are open-minded?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's more of what the tenant is for the community.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's just so many aspects of us opening up and being, you know, vulnerable that we want to feel like we are held in esteem there and that we can make our own choices and feel that we are being cared for.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think those are fundamental things that when you try something out, you want to make sure that's in place.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I say don't really commit to something until you try it out for a couple of sessions to see if it's the right place for you.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because just because it looks good on the sign doesn't mean it's the right fit for you.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that is okay.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what and what might be a good fit for someone else isn't necessarily a good fit for thousand percent.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not all of them are created equal.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're all different, we all work differently, uh, we all resonate with different, you know, different things.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a green flag, uh, a community that I would be like, yeah, this feels really good.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: All the things Carrie said, those that's yes, 100%.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a place where we all we because so much of you know, the what I'm what comes to mind for me personally is my mediumship development, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's you, I don't know about you all, but I feel a little bit vulnerable when I'm putting myself out there as a medium, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, right.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to be, I want to be in a community who holds that space for me.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if if I get it wrong, it's okay.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it uh I don't feel um like anyone's judging each other.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in fact, in in the exact opposite, we're loving each other through it, we're celebrating each other's success, you know, um, we're encouraging one another.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's no comparison.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all work differently.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: One medium might experience things a certain way, and someone else does it a different way.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all good, it's all it's all celebrated, it's all um beautiful.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that I really look for in a community is that it's okay to have some boundaries too.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: That just because I'm part of that community doesn't mean that everyone has total access to all of my energy and time and resources, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a mutual respect in the community.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: We all we respect each other, we respect each other's right to autonomy and to um boundaries.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: How and however that looks, it's okay.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's no shaming and and guilting if if we aren't doing everything exactly like someone thinks we need to be doing it, or giving up a certain amount of time or whatever.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um So I I don't know.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Those are things that I think that are important to me overall is that we respect one another, we love each other, and we truly support each other's success as we're growing and and learning.
• 22:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love the success.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And as you someone truly, you know, watching their their circle members, their peers, their other students, all really get excited for when things they're expanding.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think as as um, I well, I I feel this way as a person who runs my own circles, just like you guys do.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I that's an expectation in my class that we support one another and um and we respect each other's spaces and respect each other's rate of growth and understand that everyone is on their own journey.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And just be and not everyone's gonna have the same trajectory, not everyone has the same end game or the same end goal, and that everyone's journey is gonna look so different, and it's it's okay to be on your own path, but still surrounded by people who are still your your cheerleaders, yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and also, you know, I I try to set the expectation with spirit that one, listen, I might come up with a plan, but it's your job to like design the class.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be real.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, meet people where they are.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna meet people where they are, and I have to continue to learn too.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Michelle, you know, you touched on that as well.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I know Carrie's a like avid lifelong learner, yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys, I know that we all come to that same mentality of when I'm in a sitting in a circle, it it can't just me be it cannot just be me teaching, it has to be collective learning.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and I think that to me is a huge green flag, yeah, is that when your teacher, when the leader of the group is continuing to learn and being open to growth and open to looking at someone else's way of doing things and going, ooh, right, let me take that in.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: I like this, or I may not understand a bit of it, but I'm here for it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and to me, that is green flag in a community, yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and even in you know, so Carrie and I do a lot of social media stuff, like we met actually through TikTok, and yeah, she's in different spaces now.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hers hers is evolving in different spaces, but I know you know there are a lot of people looking for seeking community in social media, and they're and so I I try to encourage people to like sit back and watch, watch the language, see how things are being presented when you're looking at at joining in and jumping into communities and being part of something, make sure it's in alignment with how does it feel when you watch someone?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: How does it feel?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: How does it um it are you able to be going back to our last episode?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't listened to episode one of the season, make sure to go back and listen to it.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: How are you able to show up authentically right in these spaces, in these spiritual communities, still be on your own path and still be feel accepted?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that is very important because, in my opinion, other otherwise, if you're going the other direction, the red flag part of it is like, oh, that feels a little culty, and oh yeah, we're gonna go that direction too.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so what would you say?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um what what would you you both say would be maybe like your your top two, you know, like top one or two red flags?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what makes you go, oh, ew, gross, no, thank you.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's I'm gonna jump out of that hot messness um and stay away from that community.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you what do you guys think?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the top one, the top one is uh when we're when the group does not practice um curiosity over certainty, right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if if the leader, the leader of the group um comes in as if somehow the the heavens parted and they were given this absolute truth book.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is exactly how all of it works.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have all the answers, here it is.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who questions that um you know, you're shamed or put in your place.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is a major red flag.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna turn around and run as fast as I can.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there are tons of people in this work, you know, everyone, it seems they're looking for the answers, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at some point we just have to accept the fact that there aren't always absolute answers, there just aren't.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone's telling you, I have all the answers, I know, right?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, ooh, okay.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Sure you do.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: With love and blessings, I'm gonna walk away from you right now, you know.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be my number one, at least.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can say that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Kiri, what do you think?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: What's your what's your what's your advantage?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad I think that's probably all of our number one is the somebody who feels like they're at the top of the of the heap and they're they're in at a podium as opposed to the circle.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's really that concept.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I'm right out of there so fast you can't imagine.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would also say that you have uh, you know, if you look a little bit at the members there, and there's a lack of integrity about that, there might be gossiping or there might be talking about other members, not in a way that's constructive at all.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um that is divisive, and you can feel the energetics of that.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: That would be a huge, you know, absolute, like you said, I'm at the door if I if I'm the participant.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that just creates lack of safety judgment, and it just goes into, like you saying, that group think, which is so negative, the hive mind.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is a hive mind.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just am like, no way.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem sometimes is when you have a leader who is like what Michelle is saying, that is toxic or who is controlling, many of the students that are like big fans of that leader might put in as little minions and start then saying, Well, this person's doing it wrong and this person's doing it wrong, it can really go bad pretty quickly if the leader doesn't have integrity in that way.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's right for me.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and when when things like when you when you're learning, I don't know, when you're looking at um spiritual, it's to me spiritual hierarchy.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's I've done these things, and we I think I just feel like there's just those are such red flags to me.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: When people just present themselves as an authority, and that every time you don't get something, they are coming after you, like, oh, well, you're just low vibration, or oh, you're not ready for that, or oh, that's cute, you just don't understand, or why are you arguing with me?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because spirit told me this is what I should be doing.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think though to me, those are all red flags, all of them.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's you know, now what's and I I do feel like there's this this again again.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think spiritual communities can cross over into cult very easily.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I also I want to recognize that they are they can be very separate things.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can still have a toxic community very different from actual cult.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I know Carrie, you were kind of like, ooh, I'm I was in a cult once, so I twice.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's neither here nor there.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, let's can we talk about that?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what what would you say are the difference between just like just a negative spiritual community versus like the cult mentality?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been involved in cult oh wait, yes, I have, but that that was me being snarky, but like in being in a culty situation, but really like can you what what's your thoughts on the differences between just a toxic community and an actual cult, though?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think one of the key signatures of a cult is that they pull themselves away on some level from not even just other people, but other spiritual practices, that they really feel like the leader feels like they're special, that they've been gifted something from God, that they are, you know, this is the one way that things are done.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And people are, you know, giving away their power and also often their money, their families, their integrity, their health, their identity because of that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's when it crosses way over into that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I, you know, I love taught listening to people who do cult studies, you know, who follow who really like done re PhDs on cults.
• 31:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite fascinated to think about.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then you think about you know, the people that are coming in as so vulnerable because they just want to heal, they want to learn, they want to grow, and they're really impressed by someone who has a stronger ego or charisma.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when you study cult leaders, you know, they have this whole melee, this whole energy that they have that it just makes you kind of baffled if you're not susceptible to that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are susceptible to that, like I was in my 20s, that you believe they walk on water, just like Jesus did, that they're gifted, special, something which is vastly different from the one we were just talking about.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the big, I think.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about a red flag.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's like a whole year of red, 10 years of red.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then, and look at the people who are in very intelligent, have multiple degrees, will still step into the space of like, oh, I'd never fall for that.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're the ones writing the biggest checks.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, jumping into those communities.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, Michelle, what's your what are your thoughts on this?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I well, as I carry, I mean, that's awesome.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And as I'm listening to her describe that, as I listen to you, Carrie, what's standing out to me, um, a red flag would be when the community tells you it's us versus them.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we hold all the truths here.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Don't look out there.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: You need to stay right here, stay, stay here.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, don't it's like the wizard of oz.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's the wizard of oz.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Don't look at the man behind the curtain.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, don't listen to this other thing.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: The the other thing, too, is when there's this fear that uh a different belief system or a different community somehow threatens the one, this one, right?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, are you kidding me?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right, we can't all come together at the same table.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not, you know what I mean?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: That that to me, major red flag.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: There brainwashing.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, brainwashing, brainwashing, yes.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a such a different kettle of fish.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that that's a whole other episode, right there.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is that episode times a million.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's why they do it on this call.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's amazing to me also, too, watching it happen.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's heartbreaking uh to watch how people lose their their whole lives for years and their families that love them.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's heartbreaking what happens in cults.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: It really is, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but no, but look looking at it from your perspective, Carrie, going back to what you you experienced, at what point did you know to get out?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very good question.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm happy to talk about my timeline.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I in the group I was in, the interesting thing is, and this is what I was saying initially when we were having our discussion about it, is that there are things that I was learning in the group that still that I use to this day in my development.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: What happened was is over time, I had been in a relationship with someone who was very much a leader in that group.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I was such an open, vulnerable, you know, young woman.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this person was 10 years older than me.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so they were, I was not even the leader of the cult, to be honest with you, but was a favored one, so to speak.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so we had separated to create our own community, um, just to be honest, in Southern California.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I started the inner part of me, which was me, started coming out in more ways of just desire, interest, curiosity, other people.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was working like I wasn't just working at in the cult, I was obviously I was working in the public, and I started feeling so much love and compassion from all these other people that I hadn't been feeling when I was in it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: So my whole inner being just took over.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And when I said I'm leaving and I'm done, the person that I thought was my best confidant literally told me that I was evil and possessed.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I'm saying.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is why I'm so standing, I stand so in the way I hold space for people.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because and I just said, Well, I guess that's the direction I'm going in.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Call me a sinner.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was like so right, but years prior, I would have always thought I would have been worried, and that's why I disconnected.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's again why I really understand and have such empathy for people, because you want to be in the truth, you want to be, you know, close to your version of spirituality God at that time.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's it's I've seen it, I can smell it a mile away.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it's a subtle version, if any if anyone is not in integrity as a leader, I can see it like in an auric field at the 20 miles away, which is a helpful tool.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm grateful for ultimately.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm grateful for it, and that also that uh how many things I learned, and then what I've in you know infused into everything I do as a practitioner, as a professional, as a friend to women that are healing, and also how I run my membership, you know, which is um the opposite of that.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it in going back to spiritual bypassing, shadow work, and all that, oh yeah, it makes me makes me kind of mindful of okay, so when we're in these communities, when we oftentimes we come out, we go through this process of grief.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did I not see that?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I so then there's this question of is it because spirit needed me to be in that space to learn something?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because even you said, Carrie, there's a lot of things you took away from those things that you practice in your in your world now and in your classes and your own practices, but we go through this feeling of how in the world, it's like spirit puts these glasses on us, is how I explain it.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: They put these glasses on us.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh my gosh, this is so amazing.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we'd never fall for this.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so educated.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then we jump in, and all of a sudden, spirit's like, Oh, okay, check the last box, you've learned everything from that horrible experience we just put you through.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, glasses off, then you go, Oh, oh, what was I doing?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have to go through all the guilt of, am I just dumb?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Am I that blind?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Am I so so Michelle?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are your thoughts?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: What how if someone were to come to you and say, I don't know how how did I not see it?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how did I not see it?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, but still recognize, still recognize that we learn things, right?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and I mean, you know, when I think about my my own um experiences with communities, I needed to walk away from, let's just say it that way.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can always find something in that experience that I was grateful for.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there were there were moments that were really beautiful too, but um yeah, I think if someone came to me and they're like, I can't believe I fell for that.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I'm so stupid or whatever, I would say, no, no, no, no, please back this up, you know.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're not alone, first of all.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: There are people who get really good at this, right?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you didn't see it coming.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you went into it with your heart open, your mind open, you were ready for something beautiful.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's just human nature.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: We we want it to be so perfect and so beautiful that we go into it without any boundaries, without any any uh protection, no shield.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we just here I am.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, of course we can we can get taken, if you will.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh I I would say to someone who has they're waking up to it and they're like, why did I let this happen?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say, love yourself, you're okay.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, thank God, thank God you finally saw it, you know.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think something that um Carrie that you said that is so telling is when you do wake up and you see it and you say, I'm I'm leaving, I'm gonna walk away.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: If someone shames you for that, you know, yep, I need to walk a little faster.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Got my room.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's out of there, Michelle.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right, absolutely.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because you could even be a member of a really beautiful, healthy community and get to a point where it's like, okay, I think I've done my work here.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to go.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: A healthy community is gonna say, Oh my gosh, much love to you.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, excited for you, so excited for you, right?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's time to spread your wings, right?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, yeah, they will be happy for you.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, may I say something else too?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um when we're when we're talking okay, so when we're talking about red flags, tell me what you guys think about this.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in a community where there is a ranking system and some people are better than other people because they've climbed up this illusory, I'm gonna say illusory, but this ladder that they believe is there.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you think that's a red flag?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: 1000%.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm just 1000%.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just putting that out there.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do we need that?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why does anybody feel like they need that title?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: If not for maybe just, oh, I achieved this, you know, I earned that thing, I did this thing.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Great, that's for me personally, but do I need to hold that out there in a community?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And is is I am an authority because I have time, right?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, right, right.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, that that to me is also a red flag.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think in our discussions a long time ago, Carrie and I, because of because of uh a particular community we were involved in.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I remember we talked about how an imagery came in for me that the way Carrie and I, and I know now that Michelle's in our little group, this is how we see each other.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: We are on our own ladders.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: We and at the top of that ladder is enlightenment.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's bright, it's engaging, it's it's what we need to do to get up to the ladder.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I was seeing in the download that Spirit had given me in that moment um was that the other the others were like not even climbing a ladder, they were trying to use each other to stand on each other's shoulders to climb up on one another, and they were like this human meat suit ladder.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually, like the next person would be like trying to claw their way up and like stand on the shoulders of the next person, and then eventually they would all just topple and have to start over again and figure out who's gonna be the base, who's gonna be at the top.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because where I'm just over here chilling on my own ladder, going, well, listen, you they're on sale at Lowe's, just go get your own.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, go get your own ladder, go get your own ladder and climb your own right in motorcycle school.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: They tell us ride your own ride.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you should always be in a in a community, you should be allowed to ride your own ride, yes, and still everyone still have your safety and your your and your well-being in mind.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: So so can I this?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we could talk about this for hours, and believe it or not, we are at the end of this.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you believe it?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's the end of this.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: It went so fast.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I I would love to hear your closing thoughts on on uh on what we've discussed today.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: What what advice would you give to people in looking for that that finding the balance of spiritual community?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Michelle, what do you think?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, first of all, I thank you for having this conversation, you guys.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is so so relevant and so important uh for all of us.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I personally love community.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I um I'm grateful for it.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm grateful for the souls who come together in the circles that I'm in.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, thank you for being there.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: We support one another, we love each other.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's it's beautiful and it should be beautiful.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's what I would say to anyone who's seeking that, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're trying, they're out there shopping for a community.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um find one that resonates when you're when you're in that group.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: How does like I think one of you said this?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: How does it make you feel?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it does it feel good?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: It you know, do you feel better after spending time with the with the group?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I would definitely uh keep In mind some of these red flags because they don't always show up in the first meeting.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be after quite a bit of time.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden you start realizing, like you said, those glasses come off, and it's like, oh, you know, um, keep those things in mind, be forewarned, you know, be careful.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, if you find yourself in a situation where you need to walk away, love yourself through it, it's okay.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're not alone, it happens.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are for all those red flags, there are a lot of green flags, and there are a lot of really beautiful communities.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I would hope everyone finds the one that's right for them.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie, what are your closing thoughts on this?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I love everything Michelle said.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: Also I'll say.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I would say also when you go into the space, do you feel like you're more in a circle or do you feel like you're in a uh hierarchy?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you want to feel enriched, you want to feel that you're nourished, you want to feel like you can either participate as little as you want or as much as you want.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so understand that as you're examining these different amazing options, because there are so many amazing communities out there, so many good ones.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Just really understand, if you can, yourself and your needs, what's what serves you best, and then see if it matches up with what's being offered.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to overcommit to anything right away.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can do a little buffet traveling down the you know, checking things out.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be my yeah, a spiritual buffet, a little Las Vegas buffet, never hurt anything.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: It they do actually have legs.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, not the spiritual buffet in Las Vegas.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, oh my gosh.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that on that note, oh my gosh.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I would also ask you, Lorenda.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to know your thoughts.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I personally love a good community, and I what I would encourage people to look for, it goes back to what both of you just kind of wrapped up what both of you have said, is that it you have to feel good.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when you walk in, you live through your experience, and when you walk out of the room or out of the wherever it is that you're in, is that you feel seen, that you feel accepted, that you feel authentic.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Authenticity is huge.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you cannot be your authentic self, because listen, when I was in a specific community, I would be authentic and then I would get phone calls later.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you yeah, you know, we're not here to be the spiritual police, but if you're gonna keep that up on if you can't, if you're gonna have that kind of attitude, we can't have you in our circle.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: I literally and I was like, have you have any idea who you're talking to?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a I I don't know if you know this, but I'm a Leo and I don't care.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I I like what are you?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll be over here doing what I'm gonna do, and you be over there doing what you're gonna do.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if if those are the kind of things that and that those are things that made me uncomfortable, I was not gonna be told how to do things because I needed to be authentic, and it is so important if I give any advice is that when you walk into the space and walk out of the space, that you can confidently say I was exactly who I am, the most authentic version of myself, and I still was okay, yeah, and that that community still accepts me the way that I am.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: So be authentically you and see how the chips fall, right?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then move forward from there.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: So so thank you both so much.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you I adore you, you are my people, you are my community, and I love these talks with you guys, and I know there's so much more to talk about, and I can't wait to keep diving in through all of our future episodes uh for this this season.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you all so much, and thank you all to the listeners.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just make sure you're following, make sure you're following the podcast, make sure you're getting the updates when we when we are doing these things, and make sure you're following us on the socials.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everything will be in the show notes as how you can follow all of us.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: We are all three teachers, we all uh run our own communities, and we are a community.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you all for being part of our community today.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope you all learn something amazing.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, have a fantastic rest of your day, everybody.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys, everybody.