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The Race to Define Kamala Harris · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: On today's show, Kamala Harris races to define herself before
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump does it first, and the new Democratic nominee
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: surges in the polls with just over 100 days left
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: until Election Day. Then, former U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice joins
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: the show to talk with Dan about the attacks on
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Harris as a DEI candidate and what the VP selection
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: process is really like since Susan went through it four
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: years ago. But first... When Joe Biden announced on Sunday
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: that he was bowing out of the presidential race, he
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: promised to speak to the nation about his decision and
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: his vision for the remainder of his term. That explanation
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: came last night in the form of an Oval Office address.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: You know, in recent weeks, it's become clear to me
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: that I need to unite my party in this critical endeavor.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I believe my record as president, my leadership in the world,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: my vision for America's future, all merit at a second term.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: But nothing, nothing, can come in the way of saving
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: our democracy. That includes personal ambition. So I've decided the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: best way forward is to pass the torch to a
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: new generation. That's the best way to unite our nation.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You know, there is a time and a place for
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: long years of experience in public life. There's also a
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: time and a place for new voices, fresh voices, yes,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: younger voices. And that time and place is now.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Biden also listed out his priorities for the time that
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: he has left, including lowering costs, protecting abortion rights, making
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: progress on gun violence, ending the war in Gaza, and
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: attempting some kind of Supreme Court reform. He also ticked
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: through his considerable accomplishments from the last four years. Dan,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: what was your reaction to the speech?
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I think I probably processed this differently than you did
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: or a lot of other people because I was thinking
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: about this. And other than the years of 2017 to 2021,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden has been my senator, my vice president, or
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: my president every single day of my life.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Like there was no period of time where I knew
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: anything about politics where Joe Biden wasn't a singular figure
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: in it. And so to see him begin the process
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: of saying goodbye is just incredibly, it's sad, right? It
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: is because it's clearly not the ending he would have
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: written for himself, right? And so I felt sad for him,
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: sad for his family, sad for the staff who are
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: incredibly loyal to him and love him so much and
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: have so much affection for him. But then, I mean,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: maybe I guess it's bittersweet as well, right? Because to see,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: you got this glimpse in how he was talked about
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: after the remarks and how people responded to the remarks
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: with the people standing in front of the White House
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: with the signs that said, thank you, President Biden, or
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: thank you, Joe, that you're beginning to see the first
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: page of his chapter in history be written, right? And
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: just a really, I think, meaningful way for, because he
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: did something, and Susan talks about this in the interview
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I have with her later, He did something that almost
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: no one in American public life will ever do, right,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: is to put personal ambition aside and do something for
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: the country and to cede power willingly to do what
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: they think is best for the country. And I certainly
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: hope he is recognized for that. We should all say
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: thank you to him now for what he did over
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: the last three and a half years and the decision
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: he made, which has obviously been validated by the way
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: the first– the response to Vice President Harris right out
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: of the bat here. But I think it was just
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: a very meaningful and poignant moment to watch.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: One thing I took away from the speech and his delivery,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: his tone, is that he clearly still believes with every
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: fiber of his being that he could have won, that
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: he deserves to win, that he could serve another term.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And I only say that because, to me, it makes
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: his decisions that much more admirable and patriotic and, and
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: true to who he's always been, because this is someone
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: who still has such confidence that he can do the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: job and also such like affection for the job. He like,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: he tweeted afterwards that, you know, it just brings him
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: joy and, and purpose to serve people. And there was
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a picture of him that he walked out after the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: speech and just this look on his face when he
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: saw everyone, he's just like completely lit up, you know?
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: And People talk about like putting your ambition aside and it's, yeah,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: everyone has ambition in politics, right? That's normal. But it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: also this like this deep love of service that he
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: has been doing it his whole life. And, you know,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I know like we obviously criticize him for not stepping
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: aside earlier and all that kind of stuff. But at
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, he made the decision and
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: it's a really fucking hard decision to make for someone
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: who genuinely believes with good reason that they accomplished so much.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: and have more to offer. So it was bittersweet for sure.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about the brand new race for
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: the presidency with about 100 days to go. It's wild.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: In one week, we got a new Democratic nominee who,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: along with Joe Biden's campaign staff, has been able to
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: unite the party, generate a level of organic grassroots enthusiasm
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: we haven't seen since the Obama days, raise $ 126 million
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: from over a million donors, 64% of whom donated for
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the first time this cycle, and pull even with Trump
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: in the polls just days after his party's convention and
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: an attempt on his life. The A-plus rated New York
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Times Sienna poll has Trump at 48% and Vice President
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Harris at 47%. Biden was trailing by six in their
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: last poll just a few weeks ago Swing state polls
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: have her a point or two down, though she's made
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: up significant ground in all these polls with young black
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and brown voters, which is making states like Georgia competitive again.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: The campaign is still not up on the air with
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: TV ads, though they released their first digital ad today
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: based on Harris's stump speech. And here she is on
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Thursday speaking to the American Federation of Teachers convention in Houston.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Let's listen. So Project 2025 is a plan. to return
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: America to a dark past.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: He intends to give tax breaks to billionaires and big
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: corporations and make working families foot the bill. And he
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: intends to end the Affordable Care Act. So we want
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: to ban assault weapons and they want to ban books.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: And we, who believe in reproductive freedom, will restore the
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: In this moment, we are in a fight for our
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: most fundamental freedoms.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: And to this room of leaders, I say, bring it on.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Bring it on. Bring it on. First of all, I
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I'm still having trouble processing
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the fact that with 100 days to go, we literally
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: have a brand new race, a brand new nominee. And
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: so far, everything has gone incredibly well. Still an incredibly
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: close race. Still going to be tough. All the bad
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: stuff is probably still coming, right? We're starting to see
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: the attack ads. But it's just unprecedented is an overused word.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Uncharted waters, whatever you may say. But just the idea,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: we've been working in politics forever. The idea that with
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: 100 days to go, you just start from scratch, it's wild.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Thank goodness that she could inherit the campaign team she did, right?
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of arguments based on her political skills,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: her popularity, her resume as to why Vice President Harris
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: was the obvious person to replace President Biden were he
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: to step aside. But they're a less... disgust fact is
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: she got to inherit this campaign stuff. Because if there
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: had been this wave of excitement and all she had
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: was one single piece of paper that said she'd filed
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Harris for president, you couldn't have captured any of that enthusiasm.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: You couldn't have got the 100,000 volunteers. You wouldn't really
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: had a place to collect information from that 100,000, from
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: the million donors and all the above. It's wild what
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: is happening. And over the last few days, and I
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: say this with the foreboding sense of someone who's always
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: waiting for the other shoe to drop, but the last
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: few days have gone better than anyone could possibly have expected.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: And sometimes you see these things when new candidates come
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: in the race and there's all this excitement, and then
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: they go out and give remarks, and then now the
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Klieg lights are on, all the scrutiny, and they don't
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: measure up. She went to that campaign headquarters on Monday,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: not a highly produced event or anything like that, and
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: just nailed the message perfectly. Then she has to go to,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: you wouldn't normally schedule a rally on the second day
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: of your campaign when you just filed papers on Sunday,
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: but she was already scheduled to go to Milwaukee, so
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: she goes there and she nails that. And then she
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: had this previously scheduled official event at the teachers union
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: in Houston. Couldn't cancel that. So she had to go
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: do that and she nailed that too. It's just, it's,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: it is incredibly impressive from the staff side, the organizational side,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: and particularly from a performance perspective from the vice president,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: she is nailing this.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And to think about the staff that has had to
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: go through some of the worst weeks anyone's had to
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: go through on a campaign and then to just turn
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: on a dime and realize put this together and get
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: this thing going in a week and to not just
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: get it going, but to get it going almost flawlessly
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: is tip my cap to the Harris campaign staff, the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: former Biden campaign staff that is now the Harris. We've
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: never seen that in politics before either.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, just think about this. They woke up on
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Sunday morning getting ready to do a bunch of things to,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: for Joe Biden campaign events the next week by lunchtime,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: they're Googling the shade of green for Brett, right? It's just, it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Is, it is, it is amazing. I was thinking about
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: what David Axelrod used to say, which is that like,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: you know, a presidential campaign is like, you're like shot
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: out of a cannon and, And she said, you don't
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: have a lot of time to do like off Broadway
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: practice performances before you just are like on Broadway. And
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I do think that is certainly true with Kamala Harris.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: The only like sort of off Broadway time she had
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: was maybe like the last couple of years as vice president.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: And she had some, you know, she had some tough
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: times as early on in vice president. She had some
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: like bad news cycles. And then I do think that
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: people sort of then just They're paid more attention to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: the presidential race and Biden and Trump. But in the
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: last year or so, I just think she's had a
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: lot of practice and she's gotten so good, right? And
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: she's like so much more comfortable in her skin more
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: than I think she ever has been. And she speaks
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: really well and she's just very sure of herself. But
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: even with all that, it's still like with the amount
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: of pressure that's on her now, right? It's, she's just,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: you know, she hasn't, she hasn't shrunk from it at all.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: So impressive.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: It seems like we need a few more weeks to,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: to let the events of the last few weeks really
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: sink in with voters. But what do you think of
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the polling so far? We just had the New York
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Times-Siena poll drop right before we started recording.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I think it all dovetails with, I think, what we
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: hoped would come from a shift is you are seeing
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: the race get back to a toss-up race, right? Where
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Trump has advantages, he has more paths to 270. That
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: is still true. A tied national race is still one
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: where Trump has a two-point advantage in the battleground states,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: you would say. Just reminding people that Biden won the
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: popular vote by four and a half in 2020 and
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: won the battleground states by 40,000 votes. I think that
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: gap between the popular vote and the electoral college has
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: probably narrowed some, but it's still a race where Trump
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: is the favorite, a slight favorite, but you can very
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: easily see in chart what a path to victory for
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Kamala Harris looks like. And that was not the case.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: It was hard with President Biden before the debate, it
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: felt nearly impossible after the debate. And now we are,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: this is a very winnable, it's a close, but very
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: winnable race.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: The Times poll has it, you know, 48, 47 Trump.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: When you include third party candidates, Kamala Harris is actually
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: up one. And it's interesting that RFK Jr. support is dropping.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And in the five-way now, those third party candidates are hurting,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: taking more from Trump than they are from Kamala Harris.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: And she's getting, you know, 93% of Democrats in in
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the poll, which is what Trump is getting from Republicans.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Her approval is 46-49, which in this era of polarization
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: is a pretty good place to start from. Trump's approval
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: in this poll is 48% approval, 51% disapprove. I'm guessing
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: that has something to do with the assassination attempt followed
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: by the Republican convention, and that's why it's this high watermark,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: but that really stood out to me, that Donald Trump,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: of all people, has that kind of approval.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, we said for the last 10 days that
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: we were pretty skeptical that there would be a single
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: voter in the country who was not for Trump, who
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: would see him get shot in a year and then
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: before him. And then the Times quotes this person, a
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: 2016 Clinton 2020 Biden voter, who saw Trump get shot
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: in the year, saw him stand up and do the fight, fight,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: fight thing. And his takeaway was, He must have something
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: so important to say that they want to silence him,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: and now he's supporting Trump. So it's like they found
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: that person. I mean, if you look across all the polling,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: what the real takeaway is, is that all the groups
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: that President Biden was struggling with who are core to
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: the Democratic coalition, younger voters, Black voters, Latino voters, Kamala
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Harris is doing better than President Biden was by a
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: few points. But she is not yet at the 2020
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: numbers that she needs to be to win, which is
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: completely understandable. I mean, she's been in the race for
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: four days, but It just shows that the potential here
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: in her candidacy is tremendous, and it gets us right
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: back in the game. And where we thought we were
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: going to be this whole race, and then it felt
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: like we weren't going to be the last few months,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: we're back there now.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's doing better than 2024 Biden, not as good
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: yet as 2020 Biden. Can you talk a little bit
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: about what's probably been on the top of the to-do
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: list for Kamala Harris, Jen O'Malley Dillon, campaign manager for Biden,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: who's now campaign manager for Kamala Harris? and the entire
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Harris for president staff, like how do you even begin
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: to get a new campaign up and running with this
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: little time left? What do you think they've been doing
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: all week?
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Well, I think for most of the campaign, they literally
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: just changed the name and what they were doing, right?
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Like the people who are knocking doors are now knocking
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: doors for Kamala Harris, not Joe Biden. People are doing
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: digital content are now doing digital content for Kamala Harris.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: They obviously had to make some real changes to brand
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: and aesthetic. They did that incredibly quickly. The real questions
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: are going to be around message. That Biden campaign, for
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: all the obvious reasons, had some research on Vice President
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Harris as vice president, but they hadn't tested her against Trump, right?
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: And what the right message would be. They haven't done
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: sort of the, in a normal world, you would have
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: spent months doing research before you ever announced, understanding how
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: the electorate perceives who you are at the moment. What
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: are the best messages for you? What are your biggest vulnerabilities?
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: How do you adjust for those? And so they have
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: to do all that in a compressed period of time.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: I think there's probably some work to do to figure
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: out who her team is. She obviously has– Jen O'Malley
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Dillon is going to lead that team and she's the
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: exact right person to do it. But I was listening
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: to our old friend David Axelrod on Hacks on Tap
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: and she doesn't have a political person who's traveled with
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: her her whole career like a David Axelrod or Mike
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Donilon or Karl Rove or anything like that. So who
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: is going to play that role with her? Who's going
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: to be sort of a partner to Jen O'Malley Dillon
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: on that? Because you've got a bunch of people there
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: who have worked for President Biden. for in some case decades, right?
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: And how do you get some, how do you just
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: sort of organize around that? How do you figure out
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: the staffing? Like she has some people who would staff her,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: but in the structure of a presidential campaign, those people
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: would theoretically just be waiting now for Josh Shapiro or
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Mark Kelly. Like how do you move those people? So
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: there's some organized stuff around that. But I think the
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: highest priority thing is the research to inform the advertising
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: campaign to come.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Part of what that research needs to inform that is
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: a different task she has or an extra task she
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: has is introducing herself or reintroducing herself or like, because,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: you know, Joe Biden is an incumbent president and also
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: someone who's been on the scene for most of his life.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: And so 100% name ID, people have hardened impressions of
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden and who he is. Same thing with Donald Trump.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: And now you're running a campaign where you want to
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: make it a choice. You want to lay out the
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: choice between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, but also she
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: has some work to do in the campaign, has some
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: work to do, letting people know who she is, what
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: she stands for, what her policies are, how they may
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: differ from Joe Biden, what her proposals are. You were
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: talking about how the staff that's knocking on doors just
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: starts knocking on doors for Kamala Harris. But that's like,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: even that, right? They've got to know her positions, who
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: she is, what she does, what her bio is. That's
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: going to take a lot. You can't turn that ship
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: around in a week.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And this is, even in a normal presidential campaign, this
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: is the busiest three-week period of the whole campaign. You
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: have to pick and announce your vice president. You have
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: to prepare for the convention. You have to manage the convention.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Not just what the nominee is going to say, but
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: the entire, all four nights, who the speakers are. There
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: was an entire process that was in place for a
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: year to do that for Joe Biden. And now in
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: three weeks, they have to do that for Kamala Harris.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: It'll be a lot of the same people. Like you mentioned,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: like President Obama would still speak. I imagine President Biden
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: would still speak. But the roles are different. The message
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: is different. There's so much work. has been done that's
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: going to be riffed up and redone in a record
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: amount of time.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Our friend Stephanie Cutter is running the convention and she
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: is not sleeping. And she's one of the hardest working
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: people in politics I know. So she's really not sleeping.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: The campaign isn't running TV ads just yet and is
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: currently being outspent 25 to 1 by the Trump folks.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about some of the ads that
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the Trump folks are running later, but Is that just
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: because creating and producing campaign ads takes time? Do you
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: have any concerns there that the Harris campaign isn't up
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: on television yet? I don't.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I don't have concerns there. Because if you were to
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: run ads that are not informed by messaging research, you're
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: lighting money on fire. And what's also interesting is this
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: weekend is the start of the Olympics. The Olympics are
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: the first big moment where people are going to tune
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: in en masse, where people who do not consume linear
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: television normally We'll tune in to watch the Olympics. Both
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: the Biden and Trump campaigns had long planned this to
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: be the real big launch of their major stretch run
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: advertising campaigns. So what's going to happen over the next
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: three or four days here? Not worth worrying about. Don't
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: light money on fire. But starting this weekend, you're going
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: to have to have your first ads up there informed
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: by that polling and that you've tested the ads. You
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: know they work. And so I'm sure in their head,
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: probably Monday is the deadline because this is– Political advertising
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: on linear television is still pretty antiquated, but you usually
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: have to get the ads in on Friday to get
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: them up. And so I imagine that probably Monday would
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: be when you would start to see new ads. Maybe
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: if they're lucky, they can get some up this weekend.
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And just so people know what goes into it, you
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: want to do some research before the ads, right? So
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: you field a poll for a day or two. Then
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you have to write the ad, the creative for the ad.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Then you have to produce the ad. You probably need
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: time from Kamala Harris to appear in the ad. Then
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: you need to cut it together, edit it, and then
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: you need to go to the TV station. I mean,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: it's a process. To get it done in a week
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: is a lot. Harris has a strong stump speech right now.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: We just heard some of it at the Teachers Conference
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: on Thursday. What does the message tell you at this
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: point about how she and her team see the race
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: and how they see Trump?
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Recognizing that this is the stump speech written without all
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: the research that would be done, I think it's actually
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: pretty darn close to exactly what you would want. They
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: have grabbed onto what was a core tenet of President
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Biden's message, which is that she is going to be
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: the one that will protect your freedoms from extremist MAGA
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Republicans like Donald Trump. Abortion, IVF, contraception, freedom of speech, right?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: You know, freedom to marry, all of those things. And
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: she is just a much more natural vessel for that
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: than President Biden was because she is a more future-oriented candidate.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: She obviously speaks more fluently and more passionately on some
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: of these issues than he has. And so I think
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: that that's the right message. There's a lot of like
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: sort of parsing this, like is she running a base play?
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Is she looking for a swing vote? I think that
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: that is too early to dig into that. She obviously
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: has some appeal with, core Democratic constituencies that had abandoned Biden.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But there's this assumption that all those Black voters or
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Latino voters, even young voters that were not planning to
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: vote for President Biden are not planning to vote for
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: him because they thought he wasn't progressive enough or they
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: were just so much more liberal. And it's not that.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: In many cases, they're more moderate or just simply less ideological.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: And so I think she's right now trying to demonstrate,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: sort of lay out a theme. She's still kind of,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: at least for the first couple of days of this,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: was running for the nomination of the Democratic Party.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I was going to say she had some work to
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: do with the party. If just give her like, you know, 24,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: 48 hours to do that work.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Just to show people that she can take on Trump,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: that she is the right person to do it, which
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: was that the court of that prosecutor versus the perpetrator
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: riff in that very first set of remarks, which I
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: think is something she's been doing kind of a little
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: bit in some of these events as vice president. But
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: now that she has the top of the ticket, it
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: makes more sense. And so I think we're going to
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: know more in the convention speech, I think, about the
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: exact kind of campaign she's running, who the exact target
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: groups are. But we kind of know who those voters
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: are because you just have to rebuild the anti-MAGA majority
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: in this country, and we know who those groups are.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: And I think thinking about it on an ideological spectrum
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: is a mistake.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the other part of her message
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: that fits right in with what Biden's was is she's
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: for the people, Kamala Harris for the people. That was
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: her slogan way back in her 2020 campaign. and Donald
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Trump is for himself, right? So that was a, you know,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: that was a Biden message. The new aspect to the
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: message that she is uniquely suited to deliver is like,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: she's ready to turn the page and get us beyond
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the politics of the Trump era. And, and Donald Trump
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: will take us back. I mean, she's had this line
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: a couple of times over the last week, where she said,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: we're not going back, which is a great, great line.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And again, this, this one's tougher because like you want to,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: you want to talk about turning the page. It's like
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: implicitly about you know, sort of people who weren't happy
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: with the Trump or Biden choice, but obviously she's not
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: going to explicitly say that. But I think just talking
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: about turning the page future, moving forward, not going back
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: is going to probably be a hallmark of the message.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: And I think President Biden made that easier for her
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: by using the pass the torch line in his remarks
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: on Wednesday night.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've also been happy to hear her really dig
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: in on the economy and and being like a fighter
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: for working people and the middle class. And even to
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the extent we're going to talk about Project 2025, when
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: she mentions that, she connects it to sort of like
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: they want to cut Social Security and Medicare. They want
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: to cut child care. And so she's trying to make
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the message tangible to people, which I think is important.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: So one of the Biden campaign's big successes, maybe one
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: of its biggest, was getting Trump on defense over Project 2025.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: You heard it feature prominently in the VP's pitch today.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Trump was on Fox & Friends Thursday morning and once
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: again tried to distance himself from Project 2025, saying he
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: has no idea what it is, except for the parts
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: that he likes. Take a listen.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: They wrote a document that many of the points are fine.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Many of the points are absolutely ridiculous. I have nothing
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: to do with the document. I've never seen the document.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: I've seen certain things that are said in it. They
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: wrote something that I disagree with in many cases, and
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: in some cases you agree.
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: Are you ready?
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: I know nothing about Project 25. I haven't seen the document.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: I don't intend to really see the document.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know nothing about it. I haven't seen it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Some things I like, some things I don't like, but
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I know nothing about it. I promise I know nothing
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: about it. My VP wrote the foreword to a book
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: about Project 2025. But again, I know nothing about it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I've taken many of the positions in there. Some of
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: them I haven't. Kind of surprising to hear him asked
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: about this on his favorite TV show from his favorite hosts.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that says that they're really worried about
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Project 2025. And they were trying to give him the
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: opportunity to tell everyone that he had nothing to do
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: with it. And he really just, they threw a batting
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: practice pitch at him and he swung and missed on
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: that one pretty hard. But it was very telling. They
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: felt the need to give him a chance to wiggle
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: out of it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Before this, I just did this weekend's episode of The Wilderness.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Tune in. It'll be on your Prod Save America feed.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Talk to our pal Sarah Longwell. She has been doing
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: focus groups nonstop over the last week. And I asked
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: her about Project 2025. She said it has come up
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: more organically in all of these focus groups over the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: last week, over the last month, especially after the debate
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: when everyone was like, why isn't the media talking about
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden's age? Why aren't they covering 2025? She was like,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: since then, it has been coming up in all these groups.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: And it's like, it's wild. People are just, it's this
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: like conspiratorial, what is it? It seems scary. Now, when
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: you press people and you ask them like, well, what's
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: in it? What's scary about it? They don't necessarily know.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: They just think it's like really bad. So I do
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: wonder like how you think the Harris campaign should handle
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: that going forward. Like, can it stay as this like boogeyman?
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Should you like pick out a few of the worst
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: planks of Project 2025? Or should you pick out different
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: policies based on the different groups of voters you're talking to? Like,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: how do you think about this?
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: I think sort of all of the above. Just anecdotally,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: we were all in Madison over the weekend after being
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: at the Republican convention in Milwaukee, and we all went
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: door knocking for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and Tammy Baldwin.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: And Tommy and I were at a door and asked
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: the woman at the door what she thought this election
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: was about. And she said, stopping Project 2025. We were like, okay, good.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: I think we got that vote.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: I think that this is a gift from the political
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: heavens for Democrats because One of Donald Trump's great political
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: assets is his ability to just speak so incomprehensibly that
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: no one knows what he stands for. And so you
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: can see this– I mean you've seen this in focus groups.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: You ask about abortion and the evangelical Christian anti-abortion person
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: there thinks Donald Trump is one of the great warriors
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: against abortion. Then you ask the independent voter who maybe
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: doesn't like either candidate. and they think Donald Trump is
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: probably secretly pro-choice. He gets any time to the best
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: of both worlds. Some of the assholes on Wall Street
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: think he'll cut their taxes, and some of the working
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: class voters in Scranton thinks he will raise taxes on
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the rich. Project 2025 is the opportunity to not make
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump's agenda be something specific, not a Rorschach test,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: and so that is great. I think the way you
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: do it is there's going to have to be some
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: definition around it, so I would pick the three, you know,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: broadly in your stump speeches, pick, you know, two or
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: three most damning, most broadly unpopular things to cite. And
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: then you can, as you're doing your constituency work, as
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you are empowering the either messengers on behalf of the campaign,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: either as field organizers or influencers or anything like that,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: like what are the issues that matter most to a
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: specific group of people? Teachers, this community, veterans, et cetera.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: And I mean, it's just, it's a catalog to pick
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: from and message off of.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I would also err towards both the policies in there
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that are most unpopular, but also the policies that Donald
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Trump has in some way endorsed in the past, even
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: if it's just rambling about how it's a good idea
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: here and there. Because I do think you don't want
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: to give him a lot of space to point out
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: specifics in there and say, I don't agree with that.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. He has obviously a credibility
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: problem anyway. Most people know he's a liar, but I
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: think it's even more useful and more effective to If
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you can point to stuff in Project 2025 that he
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: has explicitly in some way endorsed in the past. So
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: let's talk about how Trump and the Republicans are responding
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: to Harris's candidacy. There's been a lot of focus on
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: some of the really gross, really stupid shit said about
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the vice president by some House Republicans and right wing
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: media types. But it seems like the Trump campaign and
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Republican candidates are circling around a message that Harris is
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: a radical San Francisco liberal. They're using a litany of
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: soundbites from her time in the Senate as vice president
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: and from her 2020 primary campaign. Hannity did it on
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: his show Wednesday night. Republican Senate candidates are cutting ads
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: with this message. It looks like the Trump campaign is
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: as well. Trump himself did his best to deliver the
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: message at a rally in Charlotte on Wednesday in North Carolina.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Let's listen.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: So now we have a new victim to defeat, lying
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: Kamala Harris, lying.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to be nice.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: They say.
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: Something happened to me when I got shot.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I became nice.
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: And when you're dealing with these people— they're very dangerous
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: people— when you're dealing with them, you can't.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Be too nice. You really can't be.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: So, if you don't mind, I'm not going to be nice.
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: Is that okay?
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: Kamala Harris is the most liberal elected politician in American history.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: Did you know that?
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: Borders are Kamala threw open our borders and allowed 20
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: million illegal aliens to stampede into our country from all
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: over the world. As vice president, she cast the tie-breaking
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: votes that created the worst inflation in a half a century,
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: decimating middle-class families and hurting very badly, as you know,
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: all people in North Carolina.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I guess as his wound healed, he stopped being nice again.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's what's happening.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Shot in the ear, becomes nice, gets better, back to normal.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Is that what we're... I guess.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, just... I always just think back to the
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: people who wrote all those very credulous stories in the
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: 48 hours afterwards about what a changed man he was
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: and how getting shot should change someone. And it would
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: change anyone, except apparently this guy.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Unity. I love that he also just says what all
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: of his people are trying to avoid, right? He's like,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, they told me I'm supposed to be nice
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: now and I'm supposed to be a changed man. They're
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: full of shit. I'm going to be me.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Can you believe those assholes believe that?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: All right, so which of these attacks do you think
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: are most dangerous for the vice president?
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: Liberal from San Francisco is the most dangerous, I think.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: This is the classic Republican playbook on candidates of color,
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: women candidates, and particularly women of color. And it is
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: to try to paint them outside of mainstream American values,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: to otherize them in the most racist, misogynistic, and devious ways.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: As you pointed out earlier, she is not well known
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: by the public. She has high name ID, but there's
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: very little depth of knowledge about her story, her values,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: her policies. She's in a race to define herself before
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Trump defines her. And they sort of have what their
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: initial attack is going to be. And we've seen it
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: work in statewide races. We've seen it tried against President
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Obama very aggressively in 2008 and 2012. And they're going
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: to try it again here. And I think that is
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: the one that worries me the most.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: And the 2020 primary... obviously it has more of an
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: impact because they do it. And it's, there's, there's, you know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: sort of racial and sexist dog whistles, but they could
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: run this kind of campaign against a white liberal dude.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: And it would still, it's still like this, this, the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: positions that were taken in the 2020 primary by a
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: lot of the candidates from Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren to
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden took a lot of them to better work, whoever, right. Pete,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: It is interesting to hear that we didn't play the
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: McCormick ad. This was Dave McCormick, who's the Republican Senate
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: candidate who's running against Bob Casey in Pennsylvania, sort of
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: cut an ad with all the highlights from 2020 and
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: 2019 when it was like, you know, everything from Green
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: New Deal to like decriminalizing border crossings to like banning
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: plastic straws. I'm saying that like, I just, what do
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: you think the best defense against that is?
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Is certainly not to play whack-a-mole on your past positions.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: It is to articulate a vision for the future, right?
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: And you can see how you would handle this, right?
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: Like the attack is that you supported Medicare for all,
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: ending private health insurance, access to undocumented immigrants. And you say,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: my position is that we will never cut Social Security
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: and Medicare. I support the Affordable Care Act. I support
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: strengthening it to making it more affordable, to hold insurance
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: companies more accountable and what Donald Trump wants to do.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: is repeal that law so that even people without pre-existing
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: conditions have access to coverage, right? On immigration, you lean
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: right into, instead of going back and doing like the
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: punch bowl version of legislative history on the border security bill,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: that is now your forward-looking policy, right? This is the
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: bill that I, this is what I want to do, right?
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: And it is a bipartisan bill supported by these law
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: enforcement officials and unions and just have a, this is
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: what the urgency of the convention speech is, is this
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: is your proactive forward-looking agenda that you are running on.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: You want to know what I think about healthcare? This
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: is what I think. You want to know what I
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: think about immigration?
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: This is what I think.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: You want to know what I think about climate? This
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: is what I think, right? And you just got to
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: do that because you're just– you can't– it's too hard
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: to try to explain all that stuff away. You have
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: to have a forward-looking agenda and be aggressive about it,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: and everything has to be contrast. It is your position
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: and why his is bad. Your position, why his is
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: bad instead of just playing defense. Like the best defense
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: here is a strong offense.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I think this is all well and good for her speeches,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: her ads. I think where it becomes tricky is interviews,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: how you answer a question in an interview, and then
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: how this comes up at the debate, right? Because then
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: you've got the moderator pushing and you've got Donald Trump pushing.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And so when you say, well, here's what I stand for,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: they're gonna say, okay, well, but what about this thing
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: that you said back in 2019 and 2020? What do
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: you think about that? And they're just gonna keep pushing her. Like,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I just wonder, obviously you can't relitigate everything, but if
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: you're pushed on it, I do wonder if there's a
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: moment where it's like, you know, I have been vice
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: president for the last four years. And I, in that experience,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I worked with Joe Biden, with Democrats in Congress and
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Republicans in Congress to govern on behalf of the entire country, right?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: All 50 states. And we did some things that people
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: never thought we could do. We, you know, infrastructure, whatever
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: you want to do, then you can actually use it
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: as a way to talk about your accomplishments and all the,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: and so it like implicitly, says that, you know, she
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: has learned as a national figure and as someone who
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: has governed nationwide with Joe Biden, that like, you know,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: it's good to compromise and it's good to meet people
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: where they are and you can get things done that way.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I almost think that's like, you kind of have to
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: make that turn at some point because she, in the speeches,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: it's fine, but she will get pressed on it in interviews.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's smart. Use the vice presidency as
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: the pivot point. If you don't, because you can say,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: I had a chance to see all this stuff up front.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: I sat in meetings with world leaders or experts in
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: all of these things. And I learned a lot and
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: it's helped me understand some of the problems facing all
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: parts of this country. And here's how I'm going to govern.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Yep. I think that's right. One other line of attack
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about, this idea that Kamala
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Harris was part of a coverup of Biden's health, even
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: implying that this whole thing was like a preordained coup.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's worrisome? Obviously, that has a lot
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: of purchase with the Fox News viewing Trump base. But
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: do you think that gives her problems beyond the Republican base?
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I don't think so. It's not something I would worry about.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I just think that you've already seen it. It's only
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: been like 96 hours since Joe Biden withdrew. And he
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: obviously gave the speech. It was watched by 29 million
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: people last night, which is, I think, pretty phenomenal. But
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: this race is very quickly Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: and Joe Biden. His presidency is going to matter. The accomplishments,
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: the things that they did together are going to matter.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Some of the things he does over the next six
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: months will affect the campaign, but it's about these two people.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I would be shocked if that really matters to anyone
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: in our target voter universe.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I think the more time they want to spend on
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, the better at this point. And I also
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: think that it is sort of just a legacy of
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the fact that we're only a week out from all
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: of this. And so Sarah did say that in some
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: of the groups, not that there was like... there wasn't
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: concern that there was like a coverup or something like that,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: but there, there was like, how did she get to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: be the nominee? When did this happen? This is just,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: there was no process. Suddenly she's the nominee. Where's Joe Biden.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: So there is like just a little education maybe to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: be done on, on the insanity of the last couple
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: of weeks. But I think beyond that, I don't think
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: that the, the coverup attack is, is really going to
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: land that much. Okay. When we come back from break,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Dan is going to talk to former UN ambassador and
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: national security advisor, Susan Rice. about how Harris should respond
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: to these new attacks and what it's like to be
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: vetted as a VP contender. Before we do that, you
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: know what? We got to plug for some Dan content.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: If you are dying to know the latest on the
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: polls and how to feel about them, you can WhatsApp
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Dan at four in the morning like I do, or
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: you can check out Dan's subscription show, Polar Coaster. And
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: with all these attacks coming in, if you want to
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: be as informed as possible and equipped to fight back,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Dan's message box newsletter is indispensable. It is my first
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: read in the morning. Days when the message box is out,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: even before playbook, I read message box first.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: Before playbook, that's one of our slogans.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: That's it, right? And some amazing news here. You can
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: head to crooked.com slash yeswedan. That's right. We have set
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: up crooked.com slash yeswedan.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: There was a vigorous debate about this with the marketing
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: team as we were trying to figure out how to
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: have a webpage where we could have Polar Coaster and
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: message box. And Gabby, who is incredible on the marketing team,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: told me to just lean into the cringe.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: And we have. And we have. I have a Yes
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: We Dan mug at home, by the way.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I don't see you using it on the show.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I keep remembering.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: We highly bought two of them to one day to
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: try to explain to our children what this was, because
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: they're going to be so confused by it. The only
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: thing I'd say about both of these, just for everyone,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: is the point of Polar Coaster and MessageBox is to
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: take all the sort of political analysis and advice that
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: I gave to candidates, and still give to candidates sometimes
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: over the last few years, and give it to all
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: of our listeners. Because my theory of politics, our theory
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: of politics, is the way we win this election is
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: by one-on-one conversations with the voters in our lives. And
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: my goal here is to make you as smart as
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: you possibly can be to understand what's going on with
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: actual message-tested language to win those arguments with your You know,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: I used to say you're Biden's skeptical cousin, but now
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: it's your RFK curious cousin or you're just simply curious
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: about who Kamala Harris is and what she stands for.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: This is to help you do that. So hence the crooked.com slash. Yes,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: we Dan for this special offer of one month free.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: One month free trial offer for both friends of the pod.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: and message box again it's crooked.com slash yes we dan
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: check it out guys uh when we come back susan rice.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Jeremy now is an old friend, someone with one of
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: the best resumes in all of Washington. She served as
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: the Chief Domestic Policy Advisor to President Biden and was
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: the Ambassador to the United Nations and National Security Advisor
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: to President Obama. Ambassador Susan Rice, welcome back to Positive America.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: How are you?
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: I'm great. It's good to be with you, Dan. It's
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: good to be back on the pod.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: It's good to see you. I want to start with
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: getting your reflections as someone who worked with President Biden
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: in the White House for several years and then obviously
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: for many years during the Obama-Biden administration. Just your reaction
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: to the speech last night, his decision to step aside
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: and endorse Vice President Harris. How are you feeling about
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: all of that?
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: Very mixed emotions, to be honest. I was really proud
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: to work with President Biden, both in the Obama administration
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: and for two and a half years in his administration,
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: leading domestic policy. We got an enormous amount done for
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: the American people under his leadership. And he really was
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: the captain that was ensuring that we pursued an ambitious agenda,
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: whether it was on climate, racial justice, health care, education,
• 40:56
  Speaker 6: student debt relief, you name it. And we've gotten an
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: enormous amount done. And I think it's fair to say,
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: as I have, that President Biden has been one of
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: the most successful presidents in less than four terms than
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: Anybody really since Lyndon Johnson and maybe beyond going back
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: further than that. So he's been a great president. And
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: I think he cemented his legacy, quite honestly, by having
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: the selflessness and the guts to recognize that, as he
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: said last night, that it's in the best interest of
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: the country for him to step aside. It's hard to
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: think of any politician at that level. Certainly not one
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: that's ever won all the delegates to be the nominee
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: who had the decency and the commitment to country and
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: over his own self-interest to make that extremely difficult decision.
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: So I'm super proud to have had the opportunity to
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: serve him in different capacities and work under his leadership.
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: I think he will go down in the history books
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: as one of our best presidents. But it's also sad
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: because I think we all felt that his agenda was
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: worthy of him contesting the election and that he had
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: a lot more to do that would be beneficial. But
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: I'm grateful to him for making that tough decision. And
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: I'm very excited about Vice President Harris and getting her
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: elected president of the United States.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: So President Biden has about six months left in his term.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: He brought up some issues that he was going to
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: work on in his remarks on Wednesday night. He talked
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: about Middle East peace. He talked about the cancer moonshot.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: He talked about Supreme Court reform. How do you sort
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: of think he's going to handle these next six months?
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I sort of get the sense he's going to run
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: through the tape, but you know him a lot better
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: than I do.
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: He's absolutely going to run through the tape. And he's
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: going to get as much done as possible. And I
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: remember working in the Obama administration in the last six months.
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: And we were not leaving anything on the field. We
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: were running as hard and as fast as we can
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: or could at the time. And that's exactly what this
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: team is going to do, I have no doubt. And
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: I think the fact is, you know, as has already
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: been demonstrated, you know, the big legislative burst of President
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: Biden's tenure or what would have been his first term
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: was really in the first two years when we controlled
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: both houses of Congress for the Democrats. And we just
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: were able to do an enormous amount, some much on
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: a bipartisan basis, but some on a party-line basis. So
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: we are past, anyway, the period of great legislative progress.
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: And we've continued to see important executive actions, including on
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: things like immigration most recently, and some innovative policy changes. proposals,
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: for example, a really important initiative to lower housing costs
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: that was recently unveiled, something that's plaguing everybody. And yet,
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: I think there's a real opportunity, particularly on the foreign
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: policy and national security side, to try to get as
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: much done as possible. We've got to end the war
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: in Gaza. and bring hugely overdue relief to the Palestinian
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: people and ensure that the hostages come home and that
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: Israel's security is ensured. And the best way to do
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: that is to achieve this agreement as quickly as possible,
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: have a ceasefire in place and take down the threats
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: to Israel that are coming from Lebanon and Hezbollah, from
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: the Houthis, et cetera, in addition to Hamas. I think
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: the president's uniquely suited to do that and maybe more
• 44:54
  Speaker 6: unfettered in his ability to do that, ironically, as somebody
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: who knows that this is his last six months. Obviously,
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: we had to continue to deal with the challenges we
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: face from Russia and China, shore up our alliances and partnerships.
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: So there's a lot of work still to be done.
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: And I have every confidence he's going to get it done.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: You obviously had an opportunity to work very closely with
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Vice President Harris. What can you tell us about the
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: work you guys do together and what it tells you
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: about the kind of president that she would be.
• 45:26
  Speaker 6: Vice president Harris is, is somebody who cares deeply about
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: the issues that matter to, to everyday Americans. She, she's
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: someone I've seen roll up her sleeves and, and dig
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: into the substance and, and help to try to guide
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: policy in a direction that is caring and humane and,
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: and deals with the everyday challenges and, and, hopes and
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: fears that ordinary people are facing. She's a voice for
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: caring about humans on a human level. And I think
• 45:59
  Speaker 6: that's really important, whether it's national security or domestic policy.
• 46:04
  Speaker 6: And I've seen her contribute on both. So I have
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: every confidence that she's going to bring her deep experience, her,
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: you know, vital role in helping to craft and shape
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: President Biden's successful agenda, and then be able to present
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: an affirmative vision of where she wants to take the
• 46:27
  Speaker 6: country that is hopeful, that is optimistic, and quite concrete.
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: You know, we got an enormous amount done in the
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: Biden administration. But this is more than about finishing the job.
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: This is about being able to communicate a an America
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: that is exciting and hopeful and better even than the
• 46:49
  Speaker 6: one we have today.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Now let's get to something I know you have very
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: strong feelings about. The Republicans have wasted no time in
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: going after Vice President Harris. They're doing it in ways
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: that I know are very familiar to you. You have
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: been attacked in this way in your time in the
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: public life. You've seen President Obama with similar attacks. You've
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: seen Secretary Clinton attack similar ways. They're calling her crazy Kamala.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: They're even saying she's the quote-unquote DEI vice president. What's
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: your reaction to all of this?
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's profoundly offensive and insulting. They're basically trying
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: to dehumanize her and all of us. I mean, this
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: is not about Kamala Harris. This is about saying to
• 47:33
  Speaker 6: every woman in this country, regardless of your background, every
• 47:38
  Speaker 6: person of color, every immigrant, every LGBTQ person, every person
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: who may have a disability or was a veteran, was
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: a beneficiary of a veteran's preference, that somehow any success
• 47:54
  Speaker 6: we've had, any leadership role we've achieved, we didn't earn
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: it by dint of hard work, experience, education, capacity. We
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: got there because of some unfair advantage. Not only is
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: that incredibly dishonest and denigrating. It's basically saying to the
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: vast majority of Americans in this country, if you're not
• 48:20
  Speaker 6: a white Christian man, then any success you've had, you
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: got without merit because of some unfair preference. That is crap.
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: And it's absolutely unacceptable in 2024. And The thing people
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: need to understand about this is not only is it
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: saying that the vast majority of people in this country
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: are inferior and unworthy, but you have to understand how
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: it fits into their larger agenda. Project 2025, which Trump
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: and Vance are deep up into, it is their agenda,
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: despite their efforts to run away from it. It's about
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: taking America back to the 19th century. That's what it's about.
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: It's about an America where women aren't able to decide
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: how and when they have children. They're not able to
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: decide whether or not to use contraception or have in
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: vitro fertilization. We're back in the kitchen and J.D. Vance
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: is barefoot in the kitchen. And if we don't have children,
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: we're somehow even less worthy. It's an America in Project
• 49:35
  Speaker 6: 2025 where we don't invest in public education because we
• 49:40
  Speaker 6: don't want those people who have to go to public
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: schools to be educated enough to be real participants in
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: our society. It's about going back to a time when
• 49:52
  Speaker 6: only white Christian men were in positions of power and
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: the rest of us were subordinate. That's what they want
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: to do. And they run away from it because they
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: realize that when you put it that way, oh, that's
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: going to be a problem politically. But that's what their
• 50:11
  Speaker 6: agenda is. And when you combine that with their categorical
• 50:18
  Speaker 6: dismissal of the vast majority of Americans as being unworthy
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: of any form of leadership, which is what exactly they're
• 50:24
  Speaker 6: saying when they talk about DEI hires, it's really quite shocking.
• 50:29
  Speaker 6: And that's why You know, as offensive as this is
• 50:32
  Speaker 6: to me on a personal level because of, you know,
• 50:35
  Speaker 6: how these sorts of attacks have been leveled at me
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: throughout my career. It is really about whether we are
• 50:44
  Speaker 6: going into the future with an agenda that is about
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: everybody in this country having who is an American citizen,
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: having a voice and a vote. and the opportunity to
• 50:56
  Speaker 6: make a better life for themselves, or whether we're going
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: back to a past when only some people count. That's
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: the binary choice, and we've got to be clear about it.
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: With Vice President Harris leading the ticket, they can't help themselves.
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: They can't help but say the quiet part out loud.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: I would just note that when President Biden chose Kamala
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Harris to be his vice president, she had been in
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: the Senate for four years. She had been the chief
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: law enforcement officer of the largest state. She'd been a
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: district attorney. And when Donald Trump chose J.D. Vance, as
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: you would note, a white Christian man, as his vice president,
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: he'd been in the Senate for less than 18 months.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Full stop. And done nothing.
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: And done nothing except, you know, pursue a very narrow,
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: vindictive agenda. Look, you're absolutely right. You cannot... in all seriousness,
• 51:51
  Speaker 6: question Kamala Harris's experience or competence. And now she has
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: been the vice president of the United States for three
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: and a half years and sat in every national security briefing,
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: been at the table for every difficult policy and national
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: security decision. And she is more qualified to be president
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: than any of the four people before Joe Biden who
• 52:14
  Speaker 6: were president of the United States. So this is just,
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: you know, it's crap. And we need to understand, Dan,
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: why they're doing this. They're doing it because they have
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: nothing other than hate and fear and division as the
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: tools to win. They have no positive vision as to
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: where they want to take the country. They just want
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: to rile people up, divide and defeat and dominate. That's
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: what this is about. And you contrast that with the
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: vision on the Democratic side which I think Vice President
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: Harris is really articulating effectively. And that is, you know,
• 52:53
  Speaker 6: we're trying to build an America that is not only
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: a vibrant, inclusive democracy, where our freedoms are protected, regardless of,
• 53:02
  Speaker 6: you know, where we come from, who we love, you know,
• 53:07
  Speaker 6: what we look like, you know, whether or not we
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: want to have children when some guy says it's time
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: to have children or not. You know, we all get
• 53:14
  Speaker 6: to decide for ourselves. Our fundamental freedoms are protected. But
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: the other piece of the agenda, which is so important,
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: is trying to build an America where people are not
• 53:23
  Speaker 6: just able to scrape by, but can actually get ahead.
• 53:28
  Speaker 6: And everybody has a chance to get ahead. And we've
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: got work to do to achieve that agenda. But, you know,
• 53:37
  Speaker 6: that's not the other side's agenda. They want freedom. one
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: small subset of our society to dominate and everybody else
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: to be subservient. And as I said, that's a 19th
• 53:49
  Speaker 6: century vision.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it should be like Project 1955, right? No, I'm
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: more than that.
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: It's pre-Civil War vision.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: That's right. 1855, right? Project 1855 is what they're going for. Now,
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: Vice President Harris has to pick her own vice president
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: in the coming weeks. There's some reports that she wants
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: to get it done by August 7th, when the DNC
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: is going to do the virtual roll call. You were
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: on President Biden's shortlist when he was looking for a
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: vice president back in 2020. Do you have any advice
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: for the Mark Kelly's, Josh Shapiro's, Pete Buttigieg's of the
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: world about how to navigate that process? Have they called you?
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: Are they looking for help?
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: I obviously, you know, I'm not sure I'd be the
• 54:35
  Speaker 6: one they called since I didn't have the possible success.
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: No. No.
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: I can tell you, Dan, it's a really, really intensive process.
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: I've been confirmed by the Senate twice unanimously. I've been
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: nominated and vetted. I've served in the cabinet. I've never
• 54:59
  Speaker 6: seen anything like the vice presidential vetting process. I mean,
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: it is intense. Every aspect of your personal medical history
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: every aspect of your taxes, everything you've ever said in public.
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: They even interviewed my kids who were, you know, not
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: even over 21. It's insane, right? Now they're going to
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: have to do this process in an extraordinarily compressed timeframe.
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: And when it was 2020, it was over, you know,
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: more than two months. Uh, they're having to do it in, in,
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: in little less than two weeks. Um, and, uh, My
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: biggest advice, and I don't know that anybody should take
• 55:43
  Speaker 6: my advice, is be who you are. It's as much
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: a personal choice for the president as it is a
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: political choice. You don't want to just pick a running mate.
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: You want to pick a governing partner. And I think
• 56:01
  Speaker 6: people underestimate the importance of a governing partner. A vice
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: president you know, in this modern age, often as Vice
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: President Harris has been given real important responsibilities. You know,
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: she was, people don't know that in addition to her
• 56:21
  Speaker 6: role on the national security stage, her, you know, the
• 56:24
  Speaker 6: 20 countries she's visited, the 150 foreign leaders that she's
• 56:29
  Speaker 6: met with, you know, she's in charge of the Space Council,
• 56:32
  Speaker 6: space policy. You know, she's been the leader, not just
• 56:38
  Speaker 6: on reproductive rights, but things like maternal health, worrying about
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: the many women in this country who are dying in
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: childbirth or after childbirth because they don't get the support
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: and care that they need. She's been the leader on
• 56:54
  Speaker 6: issues of labor and support for our union. She's been
• 56:59
  Speaker 6: an instrumental figure in our efforts to support small businesses.
• 57:04
  Speaker 6: and develop economic opportunity for people who have not had
• 57:12
  Speaker 6: the benefits of big corporate world. That's her portfolio as well.
• 57:18
  Speaker 6: So she's done a great deal. And picking a governing partner,
• 57:26
  Speaker 6: not just a running mate, is, I think, a very
• 57:29
  Speaker 6: important part of this decision.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, even beyond that, just I remember thinking about
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: this when President Biden was making his decision. That's why
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: I thought you were a big favorite for it, because
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: I knew you best of the people on the list.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: But you're also basically the president, vice president, most weeks
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: have lunch together one day. So you're also picking a
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: person you have to have lunch with once a week
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: for the next 48 years. It seems like you probably
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: ought to get along if you're going to do that, right?
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course.
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: Not just have lunch with, but want to have lunch with.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: And be in every meeting together. I mean, it really
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: is like there is a personal element. It's one of
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: the reasons why I think, even though they were very
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: different people with very different life experiences, that President Obama
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: picked President Biden to be his vice president because he
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: could see being in a meeting with him all the time, right?
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Because he is, you know, obviously, his experience is smart,
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: but also just a great person, right? With interesting things
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: to say and interesting perspectives.
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: And they complimented each other. No, that's exactly, that was
• 58:27
  Speaker 6: a great partnership. And many of us, like you and I,
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: who really worked for Barack Obama and came in who were,
• 58:35
  Speaker 6: you know, were Obama people. You know, the reason I
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: was willing and eager to serve Joe Biden is because
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: I had seen him serve as vice president and got
• 58:45
  Speaker 6: to know him and work with him in that context
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: and saw, you know, how he, as you said, very different,
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: but extraordinarily capable and turned out to be an incredibly
• 58:57
  Speaker 6: effective and successful president.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: It's going to be– I'm fascinated to see the decision
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: she makes and I don't, and however they pull this off, uh,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: to do the appropriate level of vetting on this, uh,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: very short timeline.
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: They've got the best team on it.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: They do.
• 59:13
  Speaker 6: And they're just, they're just going to have to work,
• 59:16
  Speaker 6: you know, around the clock. Do you have a favorite Dan?
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: I love all the people on the list. Um, if
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: I have said that if I were to place a
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: bet today on who I thought the choice would be,
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: I would say my pick would be Mark Kelly. Because
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: I think he adds a ton. He has tremendous gravitas.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: He's got an incredible bio. There's the Arizona piece, fighter pilot.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: Astronauts are cool. Everyone thinks astronauts are cool, right? So
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: if I had to say today what I think it's
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: going to be, Markel would be my guess. But I
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: love– I could watch Pete Buttigieg. If Secretary Buttigieg is
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: the pick, 100 million people will watch the vice presidential
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: debate because it would be one of the great moments
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: in television history to watch him take down J.D.
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: Vance.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan of Josh Shapiro. I've gotten to
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: interview Roy Cooper a number of times in 2020 when
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: I was doing some stuff for North Carolina with Vote
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: Save America. They're all great. So she is a– one
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: of my takeaways from this whole process is that Democrats
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: have one of the best benches we've ever had right now.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: We have just a great list of people. And there's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: a whole bunch of people who aren't on the vice
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: presidential list who are also great, right? Raphael Warnock, a
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: bunch of people in the House. It's just there is
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: a– in part because we went Obama, Clinton, Biden– right.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: We've just had a bunch of, you know, after Obama,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: the next, we went kind of back in time for
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: a little bit for, so there are a bunch of
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: people who got to rise up, uh, the ranks and,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: and Gretchen Whitmer. Exactly. Um, Gina Raimondo, there's a whole
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: bunch of people who rose up the ranks. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: Who rose up the ranks sort of a little bit
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: outside the spotlight because they weren't running for president and are,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: you know, just, we have a bunch of superstars. I
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: think it's just an awesome thing for the party we're
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: in for. Like I'm a, I was at the Republican convention,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: at least I was in Milwaukee with John, John and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: Tommy last week. And just, they have no good speakers.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: There's not a single good speaker in that whole group.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: And then to think about the group of people who
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: will speak in prime time at our convention, or even
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: before prime time, right? You'll have President Obama, you'll have
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: President Biden, you'll obviously have Vice President Harris, but then
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: all the other people who don't, you know, Josh Shapiro,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Gretchen Whitmer, just so many great voices that we have
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: right now. It's like, I think it's just a super
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: exciting time to be a Democrat. And the fact that
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: a ticket of Vice President Harris versus anyone else that
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: we just mentioned will be one of the most exciting
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: tickets we've had in a very long time. So I
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: think that's cool.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: I think it's great. I think it's great. And I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: don't know about you, but everywhere I go, everybody I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 6: talk to, I just feel the energy and feel the
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 6: excitement of her extraordinarily successful launch. And I think a
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: lot of credit, frankly, goes to the team on the campaign,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 6: that has had to make this pivot so abruptly and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: support her in, in her early days. I think they
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: really deserve a lot of credit.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Jenna Malley Dillon is a good friend of mine. We
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: worked on basically every campaign together for the first like
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: 15 years of our career. She's incredibly talented. Just what
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: they went through over the last three weeks. And then
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: just to wake up on Sunday, I've, It kept me
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: up at night. I promise you that. It kept me
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: up at night the whole time. But to wake up
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: on Sunday morning and think that you were proceeding ahead
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: with one candidate, then find out at lunchtime you're proceeding
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: ahead with a different candidate, and to be able to
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: make that pivot so quickly, and to be able to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: capture the enthusiasm so quickly, all the 100,000 new volunteers,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: $ 100 million raise in the first few days, and to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: be able to do that and to pivot on a
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: dime with you know, new messaging, new branding, new logistics,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: moving that Milwaukee rally on one day's notice to a
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: place that had, you know, more space to accommodate all
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: the excitement. It's just incredibly impressed by what they did.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: They had an unprecedented challenge in American political history and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: they handled it beyond anyone's expectations. They're awesome. And she
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: is very lucky to have them and they're very lucky
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: to have her.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: And everybody under them. I mean, I really, so many
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 6: of these folks are friends and colleagues. They go way
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: back in You know, they've been through it and I'm
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: super proud of them and grateful.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Susan Rice, thank you for being on Positive America. It's
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: always great to talk to you. Thanks for sharing your
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: perspective on President Biden, Vice President Harris, and how best
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: to respond to the attacks on our new nominee.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: Great to be with you, Dan.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Take care. That's our show for today. Thank you so
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: much to Susan Rice for joining. And if you want
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: to really nerd out on the latest polling, Dan did
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: a super deep dive on the latest episode of Polar Coaster,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: all about Kamala Harris's polling. You can go listen to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: that episode now through our Friends of the Pod subscription.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Sign up through the Apple Pods, Pod Save America page,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: or at crooked.com slash friends. Also, check out the wilderness
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: this Sunday. Going to be dropping on your feeds. We've
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: got Sarah Longwell talking about a whole bunch of swing
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: voters she has been talking to this last week from
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: all walks of life and how they feel about the
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris candidacy. Everyone have a great weekend and we
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: will be in your feeds with a new episode on Tuesday. Bye, everyone.
• 1:04:21
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• 1:04:43
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