Latest / Voices for Voices® / When Whispering Becomes a Roar | Episode 235

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When Whispering Becomes a Roar | Episode 235 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:03
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Welcome to this episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast.
• 0:07
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm your host, founder and executive director of Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes.
• 0:13
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 0:16
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We are, from a catalog perspective, over 234 episodes on our way to 300 by the end of calendar.
• 0:26
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: 200, 200, 2025.
• 0:30
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We've got a lot of numbers in my in my head now and we'll just want to thank everybody for joining in, whether this is your first episode or whether you've been with us from the beginning.
• 0:40
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We can't do this without you as, as you know, we have the pretty large goal of trying to help 3 billion people over the course of my lifetime and beyond, and we can't do that alone.
• 0:56
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: It's a huge, lofty goal, but with collaborating with individuals and organizations, with collaborating with individuals and organizations, we might just do that over time.
• 1:09
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And, as Voices for Voices was started, we're sharing the voices from those who are able to speak, able to share, and some of those, many of those that aren't able for a variety of reasons where, you know, sometimes their voice is taken away, and our guest today is just one of those individuals where she not only shares her voice, but she is helping share the voice and have people that may not be able to kind of step forward at the current time to do so, and we're just really thrilled.
• 1:54
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I have so many notes here and so we're going to try to just go at this one step at a time.
• 2:03
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Our our guest uh, he is a, uh, oh, my she.
• 2:09
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, she's a blogger, she's an author, she's an advocate, uh, she's, she's a mom and just, uh, just a little bit of background that won Mom's Battle which is our guest, tina Swithin.
• 2:29
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: She started a blog in the 2000s thinking that she was the only one going through what she was going through, and, as we find with a lot of things, that we start out thinking that and then we find out like, oh wow, there's a lot of people that are going through this and so she's helping a lot of people, not just herself and friends and family, but individuals all across the world, and it's just really an incredible movement.
• 3:04
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: That caught the attention of Christy Brinkley and I'll let her share her story and we'll start from the beginning.
• 3:17
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We'll work our way in the current state and this will be a two-part series for our interview, so you definitely want to tune in for the second part to catch up with where we get for current state and where Tina sees her movement going.
• 3:40
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So, tina, thank you so much for joining us from California today.
• 3:47
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, I am honored to be here, grateful for the work you're doing.
• 3:49
  Tina Swithin: So, tina, thank you so much for joining us from California today.
• 3:50
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, I am honored to be here, grateful for the work you're doing and humbled to be a part of it in any capacity.
• 3:53
  Tina Swithin: So, thank you.
• 3:55
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You're welcome.
• 3:56
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you maybe just start from the beginning and how you got passionate and what occurred?
• 4:04
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And if you're not comfortable sharing, I said don't share, I am an open book, yeah.
• 4:11
  Tina Swithin: So you know, technically my journey started all the way back in 1974 when I was born.
• 4:17
  Tina Swithin: I was born to teen parents.
• 4:20
  Tina Swithin: My mom was 16 when she was pregnant.
• 4:24
  Tina Swithin: My dad was 18 and he had turned 18 right around the time she got pregnant.
• 4:31
  Tina Swithin: And you know my mom suffered from mental health issues and back then there really weren't a lot of resources available and the medications were horrible.
• 4:46
  Tina Swithin: She was institutionalized for the first time when I was about six months old and my dad gained custody of me because the home in where my mom lived and what was happening in her life she was choosing to self-medicate with drugs and alcohol and it was a very unsafe environment for me.
• 5:10
  Tina Swithin: So my dad got custody of me when he was 19.
• 5:14
  Tina Swithin: And you know I say he and I really did grow up together quite literally, and back then it was really rare for a father to get custody.
• 5:26
  Tina Swithin: In the family court system it was pretty much automated that a mom got custody, which originally she did.
• 5:34
  Tina Swithin: So from the time I came into this world I have been a part of the family court system and growing up and experiencing the failures firsthand being sent to stay with my mom for a summer when addiction issues were rampant and she actually attempted suicide with me present.
• 6:02
  Tina Swithin: I was only nine years old.
• 6:04
  Tina Swithin: There were many things that I was subjected to as a child that I should have never witnessed and I should have never experienced, had the court protected me.
• 6:16
  Tina Swithin: And so, going into my adult life and motherhood you know it's a topic, you know, advocating for children and being a voice for children, um, has always been very important to me.
• 6:31
  Tina Swithin: Um, I'll tell you that when I, when I got married at the age of 26, I actually didn't want kids.
• 6:38
  Tina Swithin: Um, you know, I didn't have solid role models, uh, for what it looked like to be a healthy parent, and I did a lot of work in therapy and trying to navigate through the experiences that I had as a kid.
• 6:53
  Tina Swithin: So, when I got pregnant, I was 30 years old and you know I I wanted to provide so much different for my kids.
• 7:05
  Tina Swithin: I envisioned a two parent household.
• 7:08
  Tina Swithin: Um, you know, I really felt that I was making a good choice in a partner.
• 7:13
  Tina Swithin: What I've come to to realize is that there are unhealthy people in this world who wear a really good mask and, um, you know, I I was projecting who I was and my positive qualities and traits onto somebody who maybe wasn't deserving of that and, um, yeah, so I found myself in a marriage that it wasn't the same type of abuse that I was familiar with or accustomed to as a child.
• 7:48
  Tina Swithin: It looked completely different.
• 7:50
  Tina Swithin: You know, this was a person who by all outward appearances, looked like a pillar of the community um, charming, charismatic, had a very good degree and a very good job and career path.
• 8:05
  Tina Swithin: And I just thought you know this is.
• 8:08
  Tina Swithin: I have broken cycles, I am doing what is right and making good choices.
• 8:16
  Tina Swithin: And until you wake up one day and you know, in what I have found in abusive relationships not only my own, but in so many other stories is so many of us give the benefit of the doubt to other people and we recognize that we're all flawed humans and that no one's perfect, so we give a lot of grace, the same type that we would ask for in this world and in the beginning for so many years.
• 8:46
  Tina Swithin: The good outweighs the bad, and sometimes the good is so good that it almost is too good to be true, and that is a lesson I've learned when something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
• 9:00
  Tina Swithin: And so you wake up one day and realize the bad outweighs the good, but you're in this fog and sometimes not even able to articulate what is happening.
• 9:12
  Tina Swithin: And then, when it's, the abuse is something that's so insidious emotional abuse, psychological abuse and our society, unfortunately, even present day, doesn't recognize those things.
• 9:25
  Tina Swithin: It's a very challenging position to find yourself in.
• 9:30
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Wow, that's, I mean, harrowing from, like you said, from, let's say, a perspective of how a relationship could be.
• 9:52
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And there can be a lot of different reasons for how people act and, as you said, nobody's perfect.
• 10:05
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We all have flaws.
• 10:06
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: But then sometimes we get to a point where, like you said that that is just so, were you always somebody that was comfortable being the lot of relationships, like you said, that you know we get afraid and like, oh my gosh, like if I do a police report or however else I step out, you know the person's going to come after me and my safety is going to be even more at risk.
• 11:05
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: How did you know, uh, I don't know how did how did the experience uh kind of maybe, turn you and maybe you were always, uh, a good communicator, outspoken, being able to articulate throughout your your life, uh, cause, I think uh, a lot of people uh watching and listening, maybe like I'm in a similar situation and I don't know what to do.
• 11:34
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm, I'm afraid, I don't know how to make a difference, get out of this, maybe, share a little bit of that.
• 11:43
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, you know for one, I'm conflict avoidant by nature, so if you're mad at me I will be awake at 2am worrying about it, that's you know.
• 11:55
  Tina Swithin: So I'm very uncomfortable with conflict.
• 11:56
  Tina Swithin: And you know I often say I went through the first 34 years of my life whispering, afraid to take up any space in the world.
• 12:05
  Tina Swithin: And it was only really when my divorce started that I found my voice.
• 12:12
  Tina Swithin: And you know, by design, a lot of unhealthy, dysfunctional, abusive relationships, even if you go into it with a voice, you lose your voice over time.
• 12:25
  Tina Swithin: And for example, you know, when my, when my ex-husband and I met, I was very embarrassed.
• 12:32
  Tina Swithin: My childhood was unconventional.
• 12:34
  Tina Swithin: I came from, you know, what would be considered a very broken home, uh, riddled with abuse and and toxic behavior and mental health issues and addiction.
• 12:44
  Tina Swithin: And he was from this family that you know.
• 12:48
  Tina Swithin: They were very uh connected in the community, the community, very known in the community.
• 12:54
  Tina Swithin: They worked in education.
• 12:56
  Tina Swithin: They were.
• 12:58
  Tina Swithin: You know I was very intimidated by this family that on paper, looked to be.
• 13:04
  Tina Swithin: You couldn't dream of a more perfect family to marry into, to marry into, and so I felt very intimidated by it and unworthy, I guess I would say very insecure.
• 13:18
  Tina Swithin: And he put me on a pedestal and made me feel that I was worthy, that he did care, that he wanted to know my thoughts, feelings, all of the things you know.
• 13:30
  Tina Swithin: He said all the right things, he did all of the right things.
• 13:32
  Tina Swithin: But then what, what I came to realize is that by putting me up on that pedestal, he was in full control.
• 13:40
  Tina Swithin: And if you pull out the domestic violence wheel, power and control wheel, my story was a perfect example of that.
• 13:49
  Tina Swithin: You know, the first stage is isolation.
• 13:52
  Tina Swithin: He moved me four hours away from my friends and family and I was in a very vulnerable position.
• 13:58
  Tina Swithin: I had grown up very a blue color family.
• 14:03
  Tina Swithin: My dad was a single working dad.
• 14:05
  Tina Swithin: He workaholic because he didn't have a choice.
• 14:08
  Tina Swithin: You know, we we were sometimes, you know, barely making it to the next paycheck.
• 14:13
  Tina Swithin: There were times where my dad was unhoused and I would be sent to live with friends or family members because we didn't even have a home.
• 14:24
  Tina Swithin: So then, being thrust into this lifestyle where my ex-husband really used his money and, you know, flashiness and this lifestyle, he would go out and buy three cars in one day.
• 14:36
  Tina Swithin: I could never understand why one human needed three cars and it was a different world and it made me very uncomfortable because it was so foreign.
• 14:48
  Tina Swithin: And anytime I questioned something, he would say you know, over time, as the abuse became more rampant, you know, if I questioned something, he would say you know, you have no business questioning this.
• 15:02
  Tina Swithin: You don't understand how the world works.
• 15:04
  Tina Swithin: This is how normal people operate.
• 15:07
  Tina Swithin: Your white trash was one of his favorite digs to make at me.
• 15:12
  Tina Swithin: White trash was one of his favorite digs to make at me.
• 15:18
  Tina Swithin: So over time, I, you know, not only lost my voice, I stopped questioning anything and gave him my trust, because it was much easier to do than challenging him.
• 15:26
  Tina Swithin: And you know, over time, in our case, finances were a huge issue.
• 15:33
  Tina Swithin: We lived this, what I now know to be I call it my fake fancy life this huge home in a gated community.
• 15:41
  Tina Swithin: There were actual guards at the gate of the community and all these cars and a live-in nanny and a private chef.
• 15:51
  Tina Swithin: And you know, I was completely kept in the dark financially until the IRS showed up at my house and I found out that we were almost $2 million in debt and all behind my back.
• 16:05
  Tina Swithin: So did I always have a voice?
• 16:07
  Tina Swithin: Absolutely not.
• 16:08
  Tina Swithin: When our divorce started and I started regaining my footing and learning you know who I was, that I didn't know who I was married to, that I had fallen in love with a facade and that this person was very much a con artist.
• 16:28
  Tina Swithin: My voice, and now it's almost as if someone has put a bullhorn in my hand, a megaphone, and I'm making up for lost time Because, to know me now, you wouldn't even recognize who I was 15 years ago when, when my divorce started, yeah it.
• 16:48
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: and I think having somebody who's prominent in the community and connected makes things even tougher because you're almost battling well, several fights, the relationship, but then almost like the community that if you were to step out at that time, people may have I, I don't want to say frowned upon like oh yeah, right, you know he's doing this and that and he's prominent and so we, you know, we're not gonna, we're not gonna believe you we're gonna believe him.
• 17:27
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, and I, you know, I say that, you know I was complicit in creating a facade that we were the perfect couple, that we that you know I was complicit in creating a facade that we were the perfect couple, that we were the perfect family, because it was.
• 17:39
  Tina Swithin: You know, there's who he was behind closed doors was not who he was in public, and so when we were in public, that version of him, that's what I wanted.
• 17:50
  Tina Swithin: And when I thought back to our earliest days dating and who he was back then, when he presented in a very, you know, charming, charismatic way in public, it gave me hope that that's, that person was still in there, that person that I fell in love with was still there and all I had to do was be nicer, prettier, thinner, you know, um, all of the things that he expected of me and but that you know it did.
• 18:20
  Tina Swithin: It gave me a false sense of hope.
• 18:22
  Tina Swithin: Now I understand that that was the public mask and I learned that over time.
• 18:27
  Tina Swithin: But that was what I craved is the person I originally fell in love with and it is, you know it's.
• 18:35
  Tina Swithin: It takes a toll on your mental health to be living this double life and when I went along with the program and presented as this loving, happy couple.
• 18:46
  Tina Swithin: He was kinder to me and watching my in-laws, that is very much, you know.
• 18:53
  Tina Swithin: He wanted me to be who his mom was, and now what I recognize his mom to be is almost, in my opinion, more unhealthy than the rest of the family, because she knew how sick many of the family members were and she went, worked overtime to cover everything up, to make everything shiny and pretty from the outside and really kept everything behind closed doors.
• 19:23
  Tina Swithin: That wasn't who I was.
• 19:25
  Tina Swithin: I really it was eating me alive to have this double life, this public image, and then the reality, and I'm sure there are people who will go along with that program because that's all they've ever known.
• 19:40
  Tina Swithin: It was not me and I became almost a threat to the family because I would stand up and say, but this isn't okay, or voice my opinion or say, no, my, my daughters are not going to be around that family member, I don't care that we need pretty pictures for the holiday card.
• 20:00
  Tina Swithin: You know, and so you know I, I did.
• 20:03
  Tina Swithin: And and when you go through this type of relationship and eventually divorce, you know you aren't just up against one unhealthy person, it is truly the entire family that comes together as a united force against you.
• 20:20
  Tina Swithin: And you're the target and it's.
• 20:23
  Tina Swithin: It's not.
• 20:24
  Tina Swithin: You know any divorce is difficult, but with this type of family, when everything is writing on their image and on you know keeping a person who is a threat or is seen behind the masks, you know keeping that person quiet.
• 20:42
  Tina Swithin: It's a terrifying path to walk on.
• 20:47
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Sure, you touched on mental health.
• 20:51
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Were you able to, if you wanted to, for therapy for the past last couple of years?
• 21:14
  Tina Swithin: of my marriage and the message that I constantly received was together we don't need counseling, you need counseling, you're the problem.
• 21:24
  Tina Swithin: And I got to the point where I thought maybe I am and you know so.
• 21:29
  Tina Swithin: Towards the very end of our marriage, 2008, after the IRS came in and froze everything, I ended up desperately calling different therapists.
• 21:39
  Tina Swithin: One person ended up answering the phone and saying I actually just had a new client canceled today.
• 21:46
  Tina Swithin: I have a 90 minute slot if you want to come in.
• 21:50
  Tina Swithin: And I said absolutely so.
• 21:53
  Tina Swithin: I drove to this woman's office in just this place of desperation and I remember her asking me different questions.
• 22:01
  Tina Swithin: One of them had to do with my pregnancy.
• 22:03
  Tina Swithin: How was pregnancy, how was childbirth experience?
• 22:07
  Tina Swithin: And I was sharing with her that my ex-husband now ex-husband was very big into triathlons and it was very inconvenient.
• 22:17
  Tina Swithin: The timing of my pregnancy happened to fall exactly when his big annual triathlon was.
• 22:24
  Tina Swithin: So I left the hospital both times with newborn babies, staples from a C-section, and went camping for four days in an RV and cooked a pasta feed dinner for 15 people with a newborn and staples, because of what an inconvenience I was and I was just trying to do anything at that point to gain his approval.
• 22:50
  Tina Swithin: And I remember her face just looking at me, horrified, and her continuing to ask questions and me just emotionally vomiting on this woman and and towards the end she got up.
• 23:04
  Tina Swithin: Quite, she didn't say a word.
• 23:05
  Tina Swithin: She got up, she walked across the room, she came back with a DSM5, opened it up and to narcissistic personality disorder, which back in you know now the term is overused and everybody is a narcissist, you know, if you go online.
• 23:19
  Tina Swithin: But I had never heard the term back then we weren't talking about these things and I remember her pointing to it and saying I can't diagnose him, I'm not qualified and I've never met him.
• 23:31
  Tina Swithin: I can't diagnose him, I'm not qualified and I've never met him.
• 23:36
  Tina Swithin: However, what you're describing leads me to believe that this person is highly narcissistic, possibly sociopathic.
• 23:40
  Tina Swithin: And I remember reading it and this will give you insight into where my mind was at the time.
• 23:47
  Tina Swithin: I was so excited because I thought this is it.
• 23:50
  Tina Swithin: This makes more sense than anything I've ever heard and if we have a label and a title, we can fix him.
• 23:57
  Tina Swithin: You know, just, I am a fixer.
• 24:00
  Tina Swithin: Back then I was, you know, I in my mind, I, she gave me so much hope until I said great, what do we do now?
• 24:07
  Tina Swithin: And she looked at me and she said you either accept that this is your life, because this type of person is not capable of changing, or you tighten up your shoes and you get out because this is going to be your life.
• 24:23
  Tina Swithin: You have to either accept it or get out.
• 24:25
  Tina Swithin: And I left there, upset and angry, like how dare she say I can't fix him.
• 24:30
  Tina Swithin: I went home.
• 24:32
  Tina Swithin: I actually told him I know what's wrong with you and we moved it together and I remember him going that sounds just like my dad, but it's not me.
• 24:42
  Tina Swithin: And but that even gave me more hope, cause I thought he recognizes that this is his dad.
• 24:47
  Tina Swithin: He and his dad are the same person, so we're one step closer.
• 24:51
  Tina Swithin: His dad he and his dad are the same person, so we're one step closer.
• 24:55
  Tina Swithin: I got to the point where I wanted to end the marriage.
• 24:56
  Tina Swithin: He finally agreed to go to therapy with me, but he insisted on a male PhD.
• 25:00
  Tina Swithin: That is the only person he would see.
• 25:03
  Tina Swithin: And we did that for about six months before the psychologist said I really think you need a psyche bell.
• 25:11
  Tina Swithin: I think the issues here are bigger than what I can solve in my office.
• 25:18
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Wow, that is, it's intense.
• 25:21
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And to know that you went through that and and it made it, made it through, because a lot of people I don't say like a lot, but some people you know like look at taking their own life and do different things that are, you know, like, oh, I'm the problem, it's all me, this is what I'm being being told and you know I, I can't get out of this.
• 25:51
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm embarrassed that therapy has this connotation Like, oh, why do you have to go to therapy?
• 26:01
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And it's just incredible that you got through that, even with all the turbulence, the ups and the downs, with all the turbulence, the ups and the downs.
• 26:17
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And it is very interesting when you went home and told him about that and he said, no, that that's just like my dad and I gave more insight, that kind of runs in the family.
• 26:24
  Tina Swithin: Oh yeah, it's a very deep, deep line of you know a lot of issues.
• 26:30
  Tina Swithin: But yeah, and you know, interestingly enough, when we did that six months of marriage therapy with a male psychologist, when the male psychologist said, you know, I I really recommend a psyche, val.
• 26:46
  Tina Swithin: And and he had said to him, you know, I hear you continuously saying that you're sorry, but I don't believe you really are.
• 26:54
  Tina Swithin: I think those are empty words and that was so validating for me to hear, because I had experienced so so much gaslighting and being told that I was the problem that to hear this person say that.
• 27:08
  Tina Swithin: You know, it was worth every copay for six months to hear that.
• 27:14
  Tina Swithin: But interestingly enough that that day was the day that my ex-husband said our marriage is over.
• 27:21
  Tina Swithin: He accused me of manipulating the psychologist into believing my side of the story and I thought, wow, I have a lot of power to manipulate a trained clinical psychologist.
• 27:39
  Tina Swithin: But it was a threat to him for someone of that caliber to see behind his mask and to call him out on those things and his defense mechanisms automatically kicked in.
• 27:53
  Tina Swithin: But you know, I had worked so hard to keep the relationship.
• 27:57
  Tina Swithin: I didn't want my little girls to go through a divorce.
• 28:00
  Tina Swithin: I didn't want them to bounce back and forth, but I will tell you, when he called it and said we're done, it was the biggest, one of the biggest reliefs of my entire life.
• 28:10
  Tina Swithin: It was the biggest, one of the biggest reliefs of my entire life.
• 28:14
  Tina Swithin: Um, because I just thought it's the the point of that.
• 28:15
  Tina Swithin: I have avoided for so I didn't ever want to get to that point of no return.
• 28:20
  Tina Swithin: But now that he said it, I, you know this is it and, um, I have some big choices to make.
• 28:29
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, I think this is a good place to conclude this first episode.
• 28:34
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I feel like we're on the precipice of getting to where your voice is starting and then the impact that it had and is, and getting Chrissy Brinkley's attention and just having that support with you.
• 28:51
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And then how you're continuing to help, and not only help the victims, with people that are in those positions, but also calling out the you know, the judicial justice system, when there are judges that are overstepping or what, what have you and and and not really.
• 29:13
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, I don't say they're not nice people, but the rulings and the way that they go about things could be handled much, much differently and I think that uh is that that's.
• 29:26
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: That's huge, and that was one of the one of the areas when I saw your post, that you are coming straight out and when you're saying it as it is, you're putting pictures.
• 29:40
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: But, hey, email, call, send us information is just amazing that you got to and you're at that point, because that's probably how I'll change and how you're giving a voice not only to yourself but to the others that maybe have been impacted by those judges, those individuals, those supposed advocates.
• 30:11
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, so we'll close out this episode and if you're watching listening.
• 30:17
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Come back for part two it's going to be just as riveting and get to where we're at current state with Tina, also online.
• 30:29
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You've probably heard of her under One Mom's Battle reaching and supporting a quarter of a million people, and that's just the amount I probably know about, and there's probably a lot more that you're having a positive influence on.
• 30:48
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So we invite you to come back for the second part of this episode with Tina Swithin, and we just want to thank her for her time out of a busy Friday to talk and share and, you know, continue to share her voice and to help others.
• 31:09
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So thanks, Tina, we'll see you on the second episode.
• 31:14
  Tina Swithin: Thank you.
• 31:15
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: All right.