Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Roast! - Chris O'Brien, Coffee Cycle Roasting Part 1/2.

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Roast! - Chris O'Brien, Coffee Cycle Roasting Part 1/2. · Coffee People Podcast

0:12
Good morning and welcome back to the roast West Coast coffee
0:16
podcast. I'm your host, Ryan wolfed.
0:18
On this podcast, I interview the coffee Professionals of the West
0:22
Coast. And each week, we share a coffee
0:24
smarter episode Except for this week, from the very beginning of
0:29
this show, Chris O'Brien, the founder of coffee cycle has been
0:32
our resident coffee smarter expert.
0:35
And through all of those coffee smarter episodes.
0:38
We've kept tabs on what he's doing and what coffee means to
0:41
him, but we've never really gone in depth together and done an
0:44
interview with him. The way that we do with all of
0:47
the other great Roasters and coffee professionals who've
0:49
appeared on the show. Today we Rectify that and I have
0:54
to be honest, it wasn't intentional, you may have
0:57
noticed that the covid-19 pandemic hasn't gone quietly
1:00
into that good night. Just yet even virtually
1:04
recorded. Podcasts are not immune to the
1:05
effects and a covid related cancellation opened up a space.
1:09
In this week's calendar, I share that only to give credit to and
1:14
to say thank you to Chris for stepping in to fill the void on
1:17
such short notice. I don't normally have a lot of
1:21
background. And on the rules to West Coast
1:23
guests. I like to keep it that way so
1:24
that I'm learning along with you when we do the shows but Chris
1:28
is a little bit different. We've known each other for five
1:31
or six maybe even seven years. Now we met on a bicycle ride
1:35
that I was hosting and became friends without coffee.
1:37
Having anything to do with it. A few years later, I was chafing
1:41
from a missed entrepreneurial opportunity involving coffee
1:45
Coffee was something. I knew absolutely nothing about.
1:49
And even though I had already missed that opportunity, it
1:51
really peeved me off that I couldn't do it because of that.
1:54
So, I asked Chris, how much he would charge me to?
1:57
Give me some coffee education. Coincidentally, he was opening
2:00
his Cafe and he needed some help.
2:02
We came up with the trade, he would teach me as his first
2:06
employee, a guinea pig really, and I would help him in his new
2:09
shop, both as a barista and with developing some of his marketing
2:13
and Shop processes. I spent a full year, they're
2:16
working part-time in the morning before going to my other job and
2:21
Chris. And I spent a lot of time
2:22
talking about coffee and just about everything else.
2:25
So I know Chris. But despite that I still learned
2:29
quite a bit about him in this interview and because we tend to
2:32
keep blathering on when we catch up this interview, spanned
2:36
almost two hours. So I've broken it into two parts
2:39
in part. One, which you'll hear today.
2:42
We talk about Chris's coffee background and what To get to
2:45
the point where he opened coffee, cycle in part two, which
2:49
will drop on Thursday morning instead of a coffee smarter
2:52
episode. We'll get more into our coffee
2:54
cycle. Is now why he recently launched
2:57
the coffee cycle roasting program and what he's learned
3:00
since then, if you had to roast westcoast.com and subscribe to
3:04
the podcast newsletter, you're going to get that show sent to
3:07
you right in your email inbox. And if you take a moment to
3:10
follow at Coffee cycle, roasting and at roast West Coast on
3:14
Instagram, And you will be rewarded with seven years of
3:18
good cups of coffee in. Oh, what's that?
3:21
Oh really. Okay, so legal is saying that I
3:26
cannot promise you seven years of good coffee, but I can
3:30
promise that I'll really appreciate the follow.
3:32
I'm sure Chris will too. So thank you in advance at this
3:36
point, I'm assuming you've filled your mug with coffee or
3:39
you've pulled yourself an espresso, or you've had someone
3:41
else, pull you in espresso or you stop by your favorite.
3:44
Local coffee roaster. And picked up a peppermint mocha
3:47
latte because it is time for this week's roast.
3:50
East Coast coffee podcast and interview with Chris O'Brien,
3:54
founder and head Roaster at Coffee cycle.
3:56
Roasting I was going to treat this just
4:13
like I would treat an interview with anyone else, like not a
4:15
coffee smarter. This is just like talking about
4:18
coffee cycle. You and your your life and I did
4:21
a lot of research happening five years of research on you.
4:27
Oh God. In order to ask these questions.
4:30
So I would say Chris O'Brien. Welcome to brost.
4:33
West Coast not coffee smarter just roast west coast of the
4:38
show. Wow, I feel so special.
4:42
This is this is a this is a new and different experience for me.
4:46
Well, you know, we've had you been on the show like I don't
4:49
know, 20 times is a coffee smart expert and I realized that I've
4:52
never actually had you on the show as a just a local coffee
4:57
personality who Who owns a coffee shop and now a Coffee
5:00
Roastery. And I'm sure you may have
5:03
mentioned Parts, bits and pieces of your history on the show in
5:06
the past. But today I thought we could
5:08
talk a little bit more seriously about it.
5:10
And in particular before we get into anything crazy, I wanted to
5:14
ask you about your first experience with coffee and that
5:17
thing that made you think. Yeah.
5:19
This is interesting. This is something I'm into.
5:23
Was there a Tipping Point or an experience that you remember
5:25
that that had that moment for you?
5:28
I mean, I think there's a couple that stand out but nothing, you
5:32
know. Well, so oldest one I can think
5:35
of is when I was a kid. I had a birthday party, you
5:39
know, I was probably less than 10 and, you know, there's this
5:43
girl that I'd grown up with and Cameron and she came to my
5:47
birthday party and I had requested a specific cake.
5:51
And I remember that she was very confused and horrified.
5:55
And she said to my mother, what eight year old wants?
5:58
A mocha cake for his birthday So, I don't know, I was actually
6:03
eight or whatever, but yeah, I guess, I guess there was
6:06
something with coffee from a pretty pretty, pretty long time
6:08
ago. But as far as like that first
6:10
kind of real connection to it, I took a year off to college and I
6:16
worked for this little tea house for a while, which is really
6:18
fun, cute, and cool. And I had a really great
6:21
Community around it. The owner of made, all the
6:24
furniture and cups, and plates and everything, and really
6:28
interesting, interesting, little spot but then I left there and I
6:31
got a job. This Coffee Roastery and
6:33
Cleveland Ohio called, Phoenix Coffee.
6:36
And so, I was 19. I was just kind of bouncing from
6:38
jobs taking a year off. Just not really sure what to do
6:41
with myself. And there are two guys that I
6:44
was working with one day Phoenix, like my first week
6:47
there and can't remember their names, but I'm really went
6:52
downstairs to get something from storage.
6:54
And as I was coming up, I overheard them talking about the
6:57
different coffees that we're going to be on tap that week.
7:01
And that Coffee Roastery had a Hawaii, they to Hawaii coffees
7:06
that they would serve from time to time.
7:09
It was sort of like, wasn't quite third wave coffee was
7:12
like, kind of like pushing from second wave to third wave almost
7:16
and and the Kona that we served next to Jamaica BlueMountain was
7:21
very expensive you know. And we never brewed that or very
7:25
rarely brewed that but we also had a Hawaii Kawaii and I
7:29
remember these two guys talking Talking about, how do the
7:33
kauai's going to be on tap, on Friday?
7:37
I'm stoked, I'm gonna come in maybe on my day off and come try
7:40
it. And, you know what?
7:42
I actually prefer the Kawaii to the Kona because we had this
7:47
French Press service that we would do there.
7:48
And so you could actually try the really expensive ones and I
7:52
just kind of had this moment of like, wait, why the heck do they
7:55
care? You know, because I'm just 19.
8:01
Working for whatever, whatever money I can get them, like
8:04
smoking cigarettes outside the back door, you know, and just,
8:08
you know, kind of kind of figuring out life a lot, but I
8:11
just remember kind of realizing wait, there's something to this
8:16
for these guys actually care about this and what what's going
8:20
on here? Like, can I can I buy into this
8:22
more? Can I can I figure this out
8:23
more? And I guess if I had to start.
8:25
Anyway, that's probably where it started.
8:28
So you took a year off of college, I've known you a long
8:31
time. I didn't actually know you went
8:32
to college at any point? Was there a moment where you
8:36
went to school, or when you were kind of, still starting out in
8:39
your coffee career, where you weren't quite committed?
8:43
And you thought there could be some sort of alternate timeline,
8:46
like, maybe Chris O'Brien could be working right now as a
8:49
mechanic, or a Salesman or ukulele player was there,
8:52
obviously you've gone into a career and coffee, but was there
8:55
a moment where maybe that wasn't going to be the Case.
8:59
Yeah, I mean I you know I think I think this is it's pretty
9:05
common for people to have no idea.
9:08
Maybe always has been no idea what they wanted to do with
9:10
themselves. You know, when I first went to
9:13
college, I thought I was going to be in computer science.
9:18
After I took the year off, I thought maybe business or
9:20
writing, I really, really bounced all over.
9:25
But in addition to getting into coffee, the way I'm in it now,
9:29
and In the way that, that kind of first seed planted, you know,
9:33
in a lot of ways coffee jobs, which is basically, you know,
9:37
pretty much the main jobs I've held over the years.
9:40
I've had a couple outside of coffee but not that many.
9:43
But the coffee jobs were the only ones that really kept my
9:47
attention or engaged me enough. You know, I'm pretty strong add,
9:54
I love to do 20 things at once and not do any one of them.
9:58
Great. Eight.
10:00
And I think coffee suits me for that, I think it was really good
10:05
for my self-discipline, getting me up and moving every day and
10:09
kind of, you know, even just the low-wage aspect of it and the
10:14
scramble, you know, I need that motivation.
10:17
I need need to be I need to have the fire lit under me.
10:20
You know, I'm always the guy that didn't finish the product
10:23
until the last minute even for the projects that the everyone
10:27
would swear couldn't be done at the last minute.
10:29
I would find. A way to do it at the last
10:31
minute. So I think that desperation that
10:35
oh, I need to get up at 5:00 tomorrow morning and go to work
10:38
or else. I won't eat, you know, like this
10:42
is like essential and then once you're there having, okay, talk
10:46
to customer talk to Corridor. Do this thing with one hand
10:49
while I'm doing a thing with another hand.
10:50
Oh and I've got that timer running in the back room.
10:53
So I need to just really suits my a.d.d. brain.
10:57
There's a high that comes with that multitasking in Hospitality
11:01
to, I know that feeling where you're behind the bar and you're
11:04
serving for customers at once you're making eye contact with
11:07
the person to let him know that's coming in the door,
11:09
you're going to get to them. You're shouting at the kitchen,
11:11
you're doing whatever you're doing shouting in a nice way.
11:14
I love the kitchen, they're the heroes.
11:18
But there's kind of this, when it's all clicking, all of that,
11:21
stress, that comes with that, in those hard moments, and dealing
11:24
with people and dealing with things.
11:27
Things that are constantly going wrong.
11:29
There's kind of this this nothing like this feeling of
11:32
like that. It's like being in a flow State
11:33
when you're riding your bicycle which is something that you and
11:35
I both love to do. Yes, there's this moment where
11:39
you stop thinking and you just in that moment so perfectly and
11:44
it's all working out. And at the end of the end of it,
11:47
you're exhausted. Yes.
11:50
There's this like intrinsic reward, and I went into
11:54
bartending and alcohol because the money was Other than and
11:58
then in coffee. But that's what are yours?
12:02
Customers are worse. Yes, customers are also great
12:05
everyone but they can also be worse you know at 12:45 after a
12:11
couple of pictures and crappy beer, that's red bar.
12:13
Tell me once and that was it wasn't for you know what?
12:18
Letter the customers were worse. Couldn't do it.
12:21
Well I've also worked at a Sunglass Hut so I would say
12:24
either way I came out ahead because I ended up in hospital.
12:27
Tality after that, kind of first thought you start working in
12:30
coffee. You have that moment at the
12:31
Phoenix Coffee Roasters. You end up working in a
12:36
Starbucks. I think a lot of people work at
12:37
a Starbucks. It's part of their journey.
12:40
I believe you were a manager. If I'm not mistaken, there's
12:43
plenty of attitude that craft coffee gives towards Scott
12:47
Starbucks. I'm wondering as somebody who
12:50
did work there and who then went on to work for kind of a claim
12:54
to Bird Rock in their Heyday and now having your own Successful
12:57
Coffee Roastery. What is it?
12:59
That Starbucks does well. And you know, what is it that
13:02
you brought with that into your journey, as you kind of kept on,
13:05
going from them or what? On the other side of things, you
13:08
think, you know, know what? This is something I can do
13:10
better when I run my own shop someday.
13:13
Yeah, I mean, I love that want to thinking, because I really
13:18
have talked before with people about how maligned Starbucks
13:22
gets by the specialty coffee community.
13:25
And, you know, there's there's there's a lot to malign there
13:28
for sure. Yeah, I would say this isn't
13:31
like an advertisement for Starbucks, but it is something
13:33
that is common among a lot of the people that I talk to that.
13:37
They had a job at Starbucks and they thought they got into
13:40
coffee that way. Gave them that in In and then
13:43
they went off to do their own thing.
13:46
Yeah. Well, it's funny because You
13:50
know, we're not supposed to talk about this Ryan.
13:53
You know, mentioned, especially coffee person that they were
13:56
constructed Starbucks. Yeah, that's like that's like
13:58
the hidden secret. It's the skeleton in the closet.
14:01
That's the, you know, the don't men.
14:03
Bring it up at Thanksgiving dinner, you know, type of thing.
14:06
This isn't live, but I'm not editing it.
14:08
I'm gonna well, you know, it is true that there are a lot of lot
14:13
of us that are in specialty. Copy, that have had some, some
14:16
Roots Starbucks, you know. And I talked about Ation and
14:19
coffee jobs in general, and Desperation was definitely.
14:22
What led me to get a job at Starbucks?
14:25
I did not want it. I was You know, I did not want
14:29
to work big corporate but I also didn't know what the heck else
14:32
to do. I just moved to California, I
14:34
just moved to San Diego and I was, I was trying to, you know,
14:37
figure out how to make ends meet.
14:38
And so I was applying to a bunch of different places and I got
14:41
the job there. And, you know, after working
14:45
there, I think was on my second day, the person wearing the
14:49
black coffee, Master apron turned to me and asked me a
14:52
question about coffee because they knew I knew the answer.
14:57
And like that they didn't know you know and it was just from
14:59
some of my education and Specialty coffee.
15:01
So can you can you just briefly? What do you mean by that?
15:05
There's like a set like a color-coded apron system.
15:08
Yeah, so Starbucks has a programmer how to program called
15:12
the coffee master program. That lets you wear a black apron
15:17
and nobody likes those bright green.
15:20
Aprons, they make you look like a little corporate.
15:23
Puppet. You know, so the black apron at
15:25
least has some Timeless class to it and a little bit of bragging
15:29
rights and over the years. You know, I have some
15:32
acquaintances and friends that still work for Starbucks or have
15:35
worked for them. Recently, the program, over the
15:39
length of Starbucks has been activated and deactivated and
15:43
changed and modified a lot. So there's no one single thing
15:48
that I could say, you know, is what the coffee Master for
15:52
Starbucks. There was because it was added a
15:55
bunch of different things over the years.
15:56
But basically, they kind of had and different forms and
16:02
education track that you could do.
16:05
That would give you the right the right to wear this apron.
16:08
And you kind of had to have approval, I think, from your
16:10
manager, or whatever to pursue this.
16:13
When I did the program, it culminated in you create a
16:18
coffee tasting and pairing. And you present that to both
16:23
your store manager and your district manager.
16:25
And so you have to kind of host it.
16:27
And you know, if you look at specialty coffee now there's
16:30
there's Barista competitions, you know, World, Barista
16:32
championships and National Bruce championships regionals, all
16:36
that stuff. It's, it was sort of similar to
16:39
that. There's a presentation aspect to
16:41
it pairing and tasting. So and that's kind of a cool
16:45
thing to think about just because since we do, love to
16:47
malign Starbucks so much in specialty coffee, you know, to
16:52
remember that. At.
16:54
Starbucks has its roots as one of the first if not the first
16:58
real specialty coffee and that, you know, we talked about third
17:02
wave versus second wave. Well, When Starbucks was
17:06
started, there wasn't a third wave.
17:07
The the second wave was cool and new and big and that's awesome
17:12
that that we have that and you couldn't have Third Way without
17:16
second wave. And so so, you know, I think
17:19
there's a lot of relics of Starbucks early accomplishments
17:28
in specialty, coffee and growing coffee as a specialty
17:31
experience. And so, you can see that with
17:34
things like the coffee. Her program.
17:35
That's come on and disappeared. And come on, does it periods?
17:38
Sometimes that now I think you really see it with the
17:40
Starbucks. Reserve stores are stores that
17:44
get special coffees that not everyone has, they had some
17:47
special brewing equipment, a while, back that other shops
17:50
didn't have. It was a new brewer.
17:53
That was a, that was coming onto the market called The Clover
17:57
years ago. That was supposed to, you know,
17:59
kind of revolutionize, brewing and Starbucks, bought the rights
18:02
to it, completely and buried it. Nobody got to see it ever and
18:07
then they launched it like in like s handful of only these
18:11
reserves stores and you could get a single cup brewed with the
18:14
Clover system. You know, that all these
18:17
specialty coffee people are tearing out their hair because
18:19
they never got to access it because the special special
18:22
thing. So I think you know, there's
18:24
there's a lot of quality at Starbucks has, there's a lot of
18:26
those, those relics of its history as An important stepping
18:33
stone and how coffee is move forward.
18:36
Personally, what I have taken from Starbucks and changed up
18:40
is, you know, you did mention that I was a manager, I
18:44
technically it will only ever was an assistant manager, but I
18:47
did have my own store for a while.
18:48
I had my own store that I was the manager of while I was also
18:52
still assistant manager of a shop in the mall, very busy shop
18:57
in the mall and that was stretching me pretty thin, but
19:01
The wonderful thing about that is that Starbucks put me through
19:03
a bunch of management courses that they teach in house.
19:08
And I think for anyone starting a business and you've worked in
19:13
management and Hospitality. So I've learned a lot of lessons
19:16
from you, from your experience in Hospitality management.
19:21
But You know, from that experience that anybody wants to
19:25
just go into managing Food Service that there's a lot of
19:32
pitfalls that you can find your way into.
19:35
There's a lot of ways to screw it up and the screwing it up can
19:39
be really bad. I mean, legally can be really
19:43
bad, you know, just this and just in terms of interpersonal
19:47
relationships, it could be really bad.
19:48
And so, you know, I think it was really great to have that
19:51
education. From Starbucks, you know, kind
19:54
of recall specifically anything from there.
19:57
I don't even know. I don't even know that I can but
20:00
you know, I have another entrepreneur friend of mine who
20:04
The probably the number one thing I say about about.
20:06
Starting businesses advice is something I got from him which
20:10
these said to trust the system and not the person he had a
20:13
person kind of flake out on him and so he said you know instead
20:17
of trusting a talented individual to do something you
20:20
build a system and then a talented individual can thrive
20:23
in it and Excel in it. But still if something happens
20:26
to that person or if you need to move them on to something else
20:29
and move someone else and you have a system in place for them
20:32
to get into. Starbucks build systems.
20:35
You know, they, they are just systemize from start to finish
20:39
and in some places, you lose something with that.
20:42
Because I think maybe they overdo it, but I think that that
20:46
mentality is really served me. Well, and I think that's
20:50
probably the number one thing I've taken away from them.
20:52
It's just a formality of system of the system is Asian.
20:56
Yeah, that's something that I think is really important.
20:59
What you said about building around a system instead of a
21:03
person And that's something I learned I think over the years
21:06
we've because when that person isn't available, whether they're
21:08
sick, or they decide to go to another job or whatever your
21:12
left scrambling. And so, having a system in
21:14
place, one thing that I tried to do was teach all of the
21:19
employees that I had, you know, managers on down to just the
21:22
brand new employee everything that I was doing.
21:25
I was very open about all of the work that I was doing and how
21:28
that impacted them and why these decisions matter to day-to-day.
21:33
With my managers in particular, I would always make sure that
21:36
they could do my job if I wasn't there and so that way if I left
21:41
or if they left or somebody left, someone else could step in
21:44
and maybe there would be a drop off because some people are
21:46
better at some things than others.
21:48
But there would be a step up in another area and worst-case
21:51
things wouldn't collapse, which you do?
21:54
Excuse me? Do you see happening in
21:56
Hospitality in particular because it is such a particular
22:00
skill set where you aren't just managing x's and o's. you're
22:03
also managing emotions and experiences for people, which is
22:09
a very Tenuous it is a tenuous balance between success and
22:14
failure there, you know. It only takes one comment or one
22:18
person or one bad review to send things in a different direction.
22:24
So I should ask you, you're drinking coffee.
22:27
What are you drinking over there?
22:28
I've got our coffee Cycles, own Columbia Colibri blend from
22:34
Hacienda. Hello Brock.
22:35
Hey, it's a blend of 73%, geshe. Varietal Mixed with 27 percent
22:42
Market or a varietal. It's from one of the highest
22:46
elevation farms in Colombia. It is processed with an
22:50
anaerobic soaking phase followed by a fully washed process and
22:56
are dried in the sun. I think I don't know if the
23:02
audience and noticed it but I noticed the tone you took on
23:05
when you were letting me know that you were smarter than me
23:07
about coffee. There's well, Well, let's not
23:11
pretend that the fact that this is our first actual podcast
23:15
wasn't personal, all right, let's not pretend, it wasn't so,
23:19
after the Starbucks, and after Ohio, you're in San Diego, you
23:24
end up spending, like seven years at Bird.
23:26
Rock Coffee Roasters, The Bird Rock location, your Barista
23:29
under Chuck patent Bird Rock for the record is now owned by Jeff
23:33
Taylor and Maritza Taylor. Excuse me Maritza Suarez.
23:36
Taylor who we just interviewed on the show.
23:39
How was that Bird Rock? It's different from that
23:41
previous corporate experience that you had been in.
23:45
Yeah, I mean it was very different.
23:48
It was very different. No green aprons no green aprons.
23:52
No green. Aprons.
23:53
There were some some little I like the little half papers.
23:55
I got those little waiter half apron, sometimes we wanted them
23:58
and then I ultimately found somewhere in the back room.
24:01
A pinstriped apron, which looked real sharp with the right
24:05
attire. Not to sound like a total
24:07
hipster, but well II know you as like, kind of very casual kind
24:14
of hippie ask, Goodbye but I could also see I could totally
24:17
see you in like a vest with a bow.
24:19
Tie apron hair pulled back. I could see that look for you.
24:24
So there was a thing for a while.
24:25
The last couple years I worked at Bird Rock every Sunday that I
24:28
worked. I would wear a tie.
24:30
Oh, I used to do that on Fridays.
24:33
Yeah and I probably should have done Fridays because I know some
24:36
people assumed I am was a lot more religious than I am.
24:41
I thought that was why I wanted the tie on Sundays.
24:45
I just thought it was fun and I just picked some day.
24:49
Wear your Sunday. Best, you know?
24:51
Um, so yeah, I mean, it was very different from Starbucks but you
24:56
know, there's also a lot that was the same when I hear people
25:00
criticize Starbucks. You know.
25:01
One of the things I like to remind them is that the
25:05
community of Baristas behind the counter at a Starbucks is pretty
25:10
much the same as the community of Breeze does behind the
25:12
counter at most shops. Now I've worked A lot of shops.
25:16
I love all the different communities.
25:18
I've worked with, I'm very proud of the coffee cycle Community
25:23
with customers and employees. But there's, there's definitely
25:26
a lot of similarity, rather than a lot of difference.
25:30
In terms of just like a bunch of quirky interesting folk that,
25:35
you know, are willing to get up at odd hours to make people
25:40
coffee and have this sort of performance high energy and get
25:44
a kick out of You know, because if you don't get some kind of
25:47
kick out of it, you'll just move on.
25:50
And there is some turnover in most shops that I've worked at
25:54
the fair bit. And, you know, Starbucks and
25:56
some of the other shops, before copy cycle, I'd say had some
25:59
more more turnover or rock, is was pretty low turnover, but
26:04
still, you know, some over seven years, it's kind of hard to
26:08
think about what the turnover was monthly, you know, or yearly
26:11
or whatever it is. It's a lot of people come and go
26:13
over seven years but you know, those people are really what
26:17
make make a shop Community interesting.
26:20
And so I really love the people that I was working with it
26:22
Baroque, but that did grow and evolve I think evolved is really
26:27
the word that I like to use. When I think about my time Bird
26:31
Rock was that Bird Rock as a shop was constantly being forced
26:35
to evolve. They had recently won microstrip
26:39
the year right before I got hired and their store manager
26:43
had suffered a tragic accident and that was how I got hired was
26:49
they were suddenly in need of someone because of a Incredibly
26:54
tragic accident. And and so that was how I got
26:58
the job there, but there was always sort of this reactive
27:02
feeling to it to a lot of what happened over those those years.
27:07
And I don't say that critically at all.
27:08
I mean it's it's it's amazing what they did and those
27:12
Evolutions. But You know, now that I have my
27:16
own shop, I sort of see how and why that happened, we're coming
27:20
from Starbucks, you have this sort of structure and okay,
27:23
we're going to make a deliberate move to try to make this
27:26
accomplished thing and then we're going to accomplish that
27:29
thing. And then we're going to make
27:30
another deliberate move, whereas farokh something would happen
27:34
would get an award or we'd decide to open a new store or
27:38
change the Roasterie. And all of a sudden it would be
27:40
the scramble to be. Oh my gosh.
27:43
How do we handle this? Okay, we can handle it, you
27:46
know, and and that, that added a bit of character to it.
27:51
I think Beyond just that community of quirky people, but
27:55
it was also, you know, challenging in its own way as a
27:58
workplace. A kind of sounds like what you
28:00
said earlier though, about meeting your back against the
28:03
wall and to some extent and that does work.
28:06
But if the person if the people at the Top, If the management or
28:09
the ownership or kind of operates on that that'll trickle
28:12
down to staff, if they are, Aware of everything that's going
28:16
on they can feel a little more chaotic as well and I don't know
28:19
that that was experience there. I'm just thinking of my own you
28:24
said something interesting. A minute ago about the
28:26
performance of being behind the counter is that something you've
28:31
actively thought about how that being, you know, the person you
28:34
are behind the counter, might be different from the person you
28:37
are in your real life or that aspect of Performing that comes
28:40
with hospitality. Is that something that you've
28:42
thought about or are aware of or is it just something that You
28:45
kind of set off the cuff. Oh no.
28:47
That's that's definitely, definitely something I think
28:51
about regularly. And that's very, very real for
28:53
me. Specifically.
28:54
And for a fair number of releases that I've talked to,
28:57
there's a funny Quirk about a lot of shops in San Diego, is
29:01
that with the health department in the way they're licensed a
29:03
lot of shops in San Diego start. Or just exist like mine does,
29:08
which is I have a license as a coffee cart.
29:11
That's in a permanent location. And when I started at Bird Rock,
29:15
it was also a coffee cart in a permanent location and
29:19
eventually the shop got remodeled and, and we were no
29:23
longer on a car and it was about permanent copy shop, and we had
29:26
new health permit, and it was sort of a different different
29:29
beast, but because of the construction of the cart, the
29:33
cart was fairly tall sort of like, mine is at Coffee cycle.
29:37
And so behind the Espresso Bar, there is a wooden platform that
29:43
you would stand on and you know, once we get to move the platform
29:47
and clean underneath it and we would call it the stage.
29:51
And it really is like being on stage back there.
29:56
You know, it's really nice, having his talks with you
29:58
because you know you're a friend and you know I've got the screen
30:02
behind me and I'm in a room all alone and I'm just talking with
30:06
a friend and it's easy. But I actually naturally.
30:09
Mm, pretty introverted. You can give me a sci-fi or
30:12
fantasy book. And I'll be buried in my room
30:15
for 16 hours without talking to anybody and I'm pretty happy
30:20
about that. So people who know me just
30:24
through the coffee shop. Don't believe me when I tell
30:26
them that they literally just don't believe me.
30:29
They laugh at me. And I'm like, no, I know myself,
30:32
you know, but I really do, you know?
30:35
And I do like it. I really do it.
30:37
Definitely scratches some sort of itch, but it's not how I
30:42
naturally am. I, I get Social Anxiety.
30:45
I don't like large. Gatherings of people and
30:49
parties, and I'm behind the counter at a cafe on firing off
30:55
jokes. I'm talking to people six back
30:58
in line. I'm you know, having a good old
31:01
time of my co-workers you know I just it really is like being on
31:06
stage and being in a performance and and you know I think I
31:10
thought I thought about it for a while.
31:13
You know the stage aspect has come up a little bit but I
31:16
definitely definitely thought about it for a while.
31:19
It's just sort of facets of my personality and different things
31:22
in myself that I was I was letting out or you know kind of
31:26
using working a muscle that you don't work very often but since
31:30
someone I know in the industry mentioned to me the other day,
31:33
the performative aspect and I really like that it really
31:36
resonated with me. And I mean, I'm sure that's why.
31:39
Why I said it today but given that whole stage aspect and the
31:43
fact that it has come up before that really is an element of it.
31:47
And, you know it also ties into something that comes up
31:52
sometimes which has a you know the server is not hitting on you
31:55
the waitress is not hitting on you know the bartender is not
31:58
flirting with you. A lot of service industry, jobs
32:01
are a performance and you know that, you know, condensed idea
32:08
of it. The bartender Flirting with you,
32:11
you know that that encompasses a lot of it were being in service
32:14
industry is being a performer and it's not just knowing the
32:19
menu and doing your job. It's putting on a show.
32:23
I would add to that by saying something that I'm thinking
32:25
about what you're talking is as a barista or a waiter.
32:32
Wait, person or a bartender, you are also exposed to some extent,
32:37
especially service staff who delivered it?
32:39
Tables. I mean you are out there,
32:41
literally physically exposed to people strangers who are looking
32:46
to have a personal experience and you have to repeat that and
32:51
provide that over and over and over and over again.
32:54
I mean, in a busy restaurant, you may engage with hundreds of
32:57
people in a single day. And so you do develop some sort
33:01
of performative, I do want to say tricks but some things that
33:05
you can fall back on and turns of phrases that you use a lot.
33:09
But I think what separates It's coffee cycle and all great
33:12
coffee shops or restaurants. Is that even though that
33:18
separation is there. There's also a sense that the
33:24
interactions are still genuine and I think people can sense
33:28
that when, you know, when you go to the place where they're like,
33:31
what do you want? Okay, here you go.
33:32
See you later or when they're overly excessively obnoxious
33:37
like What's that restaurant in office space?
33:41
You know, suspenders and the flare you know when it's the
33:44
other way, you know, that's not real.
33:46
This is just a this none of this is real but with a shop like
33:51
yours you can be behind the stage and Performing and to some
33:53
extent like behind the bar behind the counter.
33:55
That's like your protective barrier from the world but
33:59
you're still when you're asking people about their day you still
34:02
you mean that you do want to know in that moment.
34:05
It's not it's not a show in that perspective and that Spect.
34:09
But but it is a it is a fine line and it's easy to fall.
34:14
One foot onto either side it on any given day and being able to
34:17
recalibrate as you go will show up in the reviews so to speak.
34:22
People customers know, customers are smart.
34:24
I think sometimes customers choose not to care, but I think
34:29
most of the, in most cases their customers are aware.
34:32
When I was a, this is the manager at that, that Starbucks
34:37
in the mall. I had a co-worker who most most
34:40
people at Starbucks, or at most shops that have worked out.
34:43
They like to work the espresso machine and sort of kind of who
34:47
really likes to get their hands dirty and make and making the
34:50
espresso drinks. It's kind of fun.
34:51
You got, you know, you got your kind of skilled you can show off
34:55
or you and sometimes sometimes people just like to do it
34:57
because they like to hide from customers a little bit because
35:00
it can be overwhelming. But I have this Coworker and he
35:05
loved to work the register and he like to interact with people
35:09
and you know, that's great and I've certainly worked with other
35:11
people that really got more out of that than out of the Hands-On
35:16
part. Usually, it's a mix of at all of
35:19
them, but he would always make really good tips.
35:23
It was make great tips and it confuses me so much because But
35:30
it's a good lesson for me because people would come to his
35:32
register and then say, Oh, hey man, how's it going?
35:35
And you go. Not so good, man.
35:38
I'm just, I'm just really struggling today.
35:41
And I think we're so trained by this office.
35:46
Space restaurant Flair vests. Idea of, oh, hey there, how are
35:50
you doing? How would a great day today?
35:52
So am I that? I think, you know, it's really
35:56
important to acknowledge that, we are all having bad days
36:01
sometimes, and we are all struggling in some ways all the
36:04
time. And I talked about this with my
36:07
co-workers, when I'm doing trainings and I say, hey, you
36:10
know, like It's okay to say that, you know, if you're having
36:13
a bad day, one thing, how can I support that as your manager?
36:19
But also, you know, you don't have to pretend with people.
36:24
And, and people really respond to it.
36:27
Tipped him. So well, even so much tips, a
36:30
Starbucks and like tips in Starbucks are terrible.
36:32
They don't take credit card tips, so it's just cash tips.
36:35
Nobody pays cash anymore. It's like 20 percent of sales or
36:38
something like that, 10% of sales.
36:40
So you know the fact that he got that was was really remarkable.
36:45
But you know, at that store I had this one habit that I like
36:49
to do because I was a manager, you know, a lot of the time I
36:52
would be moving around behind the counter and it was So busy
36:55
that we'd have, you know, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
36:57
10, people working at once and if you walk around behind the
37:00
counter and it's just someone come up and nobody would engage
37:04
them and I'd be holding a box and I would love to just drop
37:09
the box to the ground deliberately, to talk to the
37:12
customer and it was sort of like a little bit over the top, kind
37:16
of, you know, management technique.
37:18
And I probably broke some stuff in those boxes.
37:20
Occasionally, but now it is at Coffee cycle.
37:23
We do something All the different where, you know,
37:25
you're gonna be in those lulls between customers talking to
37:29
each other behind the counter and having conversations in your
37:35
more immediate community of the co-workers that you spend five.
37:38
Six, seven, eight hours a day with. instead of dropping a box
37:44
and instead of just dropping my conversation with my coworker,
37:47
when someone comes in, You immediately instead of having
37:51
this one on one, we try to turn it so that you bring them into
37:55
the conversation that you already have it.
37:58
And you know it it's not as much of a performance at that point,
38:03
you know, because you're already having an intimate conversation
38:06
with someone who is, you know, an intimate friend.
38:08
Like we don't spend five six seven, eight hours a day with
38:12
that many people. That often, our co-workers, our,
38:16
and, you know, romantic partners are pretty much.
38:18
The only ones that we really spend that much time with.
38:21
And so that intimacy of being welcomed in to that intimate
38:27
conversation, really adds this this genuine welcoming to
38:32
people, you know, and we can be talking about whatever my
38:34
co-workers cat or the crazy dream I had last night or the
38:39
meal that I totally screwed up the night before and you never
38:44
Know how that customer is going to respond because they might be
38:47
in there. Just thinking God, I just want a
38:49
cup of coffee, but then all of a sudden they're like, oh my gosh.
38:53
I screwed up my baking the same way last week or my cat did the
38:58
craziest thing or you had that same dream you know like you
39:03
just never know what's gonna happen with that and so it
39:05
really does take it from that performative aspect into a more
39:08
genuine interaction. If somebody had the same dream
39:12
that I had, I would be concerned for their mental, welfare.
39:15
I'm going to be honest with you, my dreams are way off the map.
39:19
We've been talking a lot about your history and we as we tend
39:23
to do, we go on and on and on together, but I want to, I want
39:27
to talk about how you got to where you are now at Coffee
39:30
cycle, roasting. But after seven years of being a
39:34
barista at Bird Rock and I don't know what 10 12 years as in the
39:39
coffee industry, working for someone One else you decide to
39:43
open your own coffee cart, which is coffee cycle and it is a
39:47
coffee shop. That is literally on a bicycle.
39:50
I know your original inspiration was to be rolling around on this
39:53
bicycle. But what made you decide to
39:55
leave Bird Rock and then, and do this.
39:58
They take on this challenge of opening your own cart which I
40:03
know was not a quick process. well, you know I went to
40:11
college, I took a year off College.
40:13
I went back to college and moved out to California.
40:15
I got this job. I got this other job.
40:17
I got this job and moved down to San Diego, you know.
40:19
I think we're always trying to better ourselves or try to, you
40:22
know, accomplish something or try to find some sense of
40:25
purpose. I think it's just like human
40:26
nature for me. I never really found it in
40:30
really formal areas. I think I've always been a
40:33
little bit entrepreneurial, you know, I've tried mostly what.
40:37
I've put my hand toward his like writing projects, Because I love
40:41
to read so much. So I've tried a couple writing
40:43
projects over the years and really thought that something
40:46
would come of them. But I always knew that I not
40:50
always, but I've been pretty confident for a long time that I
40:53
wanted to work for myself and be an entrepreneur and coffee.
40:58
Really makes the most sense because it's really the main job
41:01
I've ever had in my main area of expertise.
41:04
You know, I was working for Bird Rock and I ride my bike
41:09
everywhere. I don't have a car and I was
41:13
closing up the shop one day with a couple co-workers, and it just
41:16
so happened that they had already in their bikes to work
41:19
that day to think was just my friend Brock, my friend Charlie,
41:24
and who else is there? But I live about a mile from
41:27
Bird Rock. And so, I said, hey after we
41:29
close at at 6:00 we're done by 6:30 or so, do you want a ride
41:34
back? To my house and have a beer
41:36
before you guys head home and there were both down.
41:39
So we came back to my house and I own about four or five bikes
41:43
at any given moment and my roommate at the time, owned
41:46
about four or five bikes, and my coworkers are just rolled their
41:50
bikes into the living room. So now there's 12 ish bikes in
41:53
the living room and we're all hanging out drinking beer and
41:58
chatting about our job because we have such a great Community
42:03
there. We had a really good connections
42:05
with the people that came in there were some favorites.
42:08
You know, we're basically we're talking about some of our
42:11
favorite aspects of working at Bird Rock and what was made it
42:14
so special. And we're talking about it in
42:19
sort of the context of how we would like to have our own shop
42:22
one day. I think it's a dream that comes
42:23
across a lot of Baristas Minds at some point and I think it
42:27
comes across a lot of people's minds.
42:29
There's something just Ealing about Cafe.
42:32
You know, I used to hear a lot more about, you know.
42:35
Yeah, look to retire and own a bar, you know?
42:37
But now I feel like I really hear people.
42:39
So I'd like to retire and own a coffee shop and sneak preview.
42:42
No, you don't, you don't want to do that if we don't wish to
42:46
retire. That's not, that's not
42:48
retirement. That's saying I've worked for 50
42:50
years and I want to work harder for less money.
42:53
Yeah, it's amazing to me. How often I hear that.
42:56
And I'm always like, no, no, you don't like what, but but we're
42:59
all, you know. And tossing around this sort of
43:01
dream and one of them. And I really don't remember who
43:04
it was said, flippantly off-the-cuff.
43:08
They said you should just build a coffee shop in the back of one
43:11
of your bikes because we're surrounded by bikes and I don't
43:16
know why the idea kind of got in my head but the next morning I
43:20
woke up and I looked up bike trailers and I found the biggest
43:26
heaviest duty bike trailer. I could find, I looked at its
43:29
weight capacity, I had heard from another co-worker of mine.
43:33
How he used to take an espresso machine to bike race events,
43:38
back in Ohio. And he would take this lever,
43:41
pull, espresso machine, that he had converted to run on propane
43:45
to these bike races and they would drink espresso and beer
43:48
while watching bike races and I said, well, I've got to be able
43:52
to And a espresso machine that I can convert to propane and I've
43:56
gotta be able to put that espresso machine and the
43:58
propane, and the water and a fridge.
44:01
And so I just sort of started drafting in my head, you know,
44:04
and I found this trailer and I'm sort of drawing out this design
44:08
and I called a friend of mine, who's a bike mechanic is really
44:11
good by kind of had his own shop for about 10 years or so.
44:15
And I said, hey, you know, like started worrying about the
44:18
weight and breaking I said, hey, you know, can can we rigged up
44:21
brakes on like a Killer of some sort.
44:24
I'm just worried about going down a hill and like fishtailing
44:27
or something and he said well if you're putting a ton of weight
44:30
behind your bike like that you should just try to get some sort
44:33
of Rickshaw type tricycle sort of design where the bike is
44:39
playing the front but it's like all one thing and said oh like a
44:43
pedicab and he goes yeah exactly.
44:46
So ultimately we bought an old pedicab frame and we cut it down
44:51
and narrowed It and lengthened it and reinforced it.
44:54
And that's how that's how we built the the coffee cycle.
44:59
So, I know, you know, this already about me, but I do tend
45:03
to ramble in my stories and sometimes I'll lose track of
45:06
where I was supposed to go. So, right right there, that was
45:08
where I landed and lost track. No, no it was what made you what
45:13
inspired, you know, the original coffee cycle and so, how long
45:17
did it take you to build the actual cart that eventually got
45:21
approved by the health department?
45:22
Meant to serve coffee because I think your original idea was
45:26
that you were going to ride your bike to different locations
45:28
around the beach areas, writes a Pacific Beach Bird Rock You Know
45:32
Crown Point but that got mixed I think pretty quickly from the
45:36
health department. But how long did it take before
45:39
you know you buy that trailer you buy that first Rickshaw
45:42
whatever. Yep to you are open for
45:46
business. So I I planned it out.
45:49
I planned it out and I was pretty meticulous my planning
45:52
and my Research and I plan on, I said, okay from the dead by this
45:56
thing which was right around Christmas, you know.
46:00
So the end of the air from the day, I buy this thing to the
46:03
day, I'm able to launch should be about six months.
46:06
So I was very, very careful and meticulous, six months, it took
46:11
three years. All the, all that planning, it
46:16
took three years from from start to launch just about about three
46:20
years. I think it was like two years
46:22
now. Months to years, 10 months, like
46:24
that basically three years and, you know, looking back on it.
46:28
I can say that the second year I didn't get nearly as much dumb.
46:32
I definitely fell into some depression and just, you know,
46:36
just life stuff kind of crept up, but it's hard to keep moving
46:40
with a project that you think is going to take six months and
46:43
then takes three years. But I'm also really stubborn.
46:46
So it's hard to stop doing anything.
46:49
I just moved very slowly, so So, you know, I was very lucky and
46:54
some friends helping me out with it, as far as, you know, a place
46:57
to work on it and materials, and tools, and expertise and people
47:02
just doing things for me. But you know, I instead of
47:06
getting down there once or twice or three times a week, I would
47:09
get there once a month or once a week twice a month.
47:12
You know. It was definitely a lot less
47:14
progress for certain periods of time but yeah, overall 33 years
47:20
and then I did it on the side of the road for one year.
47:22
And the license that I had only allowed me to operate in a
47:25
single location to clarify. You mean, you owe?
47:29
You were open serving coffee on the side of the road.
47:32
The cart was essentially we're next to the bike path.
47:35
Not unlike a nice residential street.
47:38
Either are on the higher on a County Highway.
47:42
Yeah. So you know the shop right?
47:44
I got to build it. I had a friend who had it was.
47:48
Another entrepreneur with a different different business.
47:50
He is tree. Trimmer is Ann Arbor.
47:52
Twist and Shout em out. What's his name?
47:56
Oh, Joey. He's at Coastal Tree Care,
47:59
Coastal Tree. Care has been very successful at
48:02
started with Joey and just a little white pickup truck
48:04
picking up jobs on Craigslist. And now he's the highest rated
48:08
arborist in San Diego. He's got a couple different
48:13
large trucks and I think he's got a crane and he's got, you
48:17
know, office staff and is just got incredible reviews of his
48:21
service. He doesn't do any climbing and
48:22
Amor, really, he does some evaluations and estimates and he
48:26
loves customers and he loves trees.
48:28
So he loves learning about him, he's gotten some really
48:31
cutting-edge accreditations with tree health care, which is
48:36
amazing. But he got this shop to start
48:39
growing his business out of. It was kind of as industrial
48:43
commercial area next to a bunch of surfboard Shapers and Joe is
48:48
a big Surfer too. This is all these surfboard
48:51
Shapers, you know, it smells of epoxy resin and, you know, and
48:57
also other chemicals like that. There's an electrician next
48:59
door, but he had this shop, and it was a nice shop.
49:03
You know, just basically a big empty concrete warehouse, but
49:06
not, not very large, but it was too big for him when he first
49:10
got it. And so he partnered with a
49:11
friend of his, our friend, Peter who is an engineer who works for
49:17
solar worked for solar term, solar term, Vines and San Diego
49:21
here, kind of a big engineering company, and Peter is I like to
49:27
describe him as a jack of all trades, master of all trades, he
49:31
can just do anything with a power tool.
49:33
It's just it's humbling and frustrating because of how
49:36
amazing he is. But he's also very kind and
49:39
sweet and helpful and generous and so Peters tools were on the
49:44
shop at Peter and Joey split the shop.
49:47
Peter kind of used it as a substitute for Like a garage and
49:51
a house and it was just kind of his little man cave sort of.
49:55
And so we had an area that was dedicated in the coastal Tree
49:59
Care and an area that was full of tools.
50:02
And then the coffee cart kind of parked in there as it was under
50:05
construction. And so over the years, we just
50:08
kind of did a little bit more a little bit more, a little bit
50:10
more and as the cart took shape and we started to test it out
50:16
and as I did, more and more research with the health
50:19
department, It looked like getting it licensed like a food
50:22
truck, honestly. After all my research, it was
50:26
really hard to even understand how food trucks do what they do.
50:30
Most of what I read seemed to say that if you wanted to set up
50:33
a mobile food, place that you needed to set it up on private
50:37
commercial property, which I was thinking, it was like, like a,
50:41
like a parking lot for like a mini mall or something.
50:44
Can think of what other private commercial property.
50:46
You could park a food truck in and obviously we see them parked
50:50
on streets occasionally. So there's something about the
50:52
laws and rules that I actually never managed to understand but
50:56
what it looked like to me was the best and easiest license to
51:00
get was the single operating site mobile food facility which
51:05
is a lot of words all strung together but basically it's like
51:08
a coffee cart at a hospital. Yeah, it doesn't move.
51:12
It just sits in one point. Exactly.
51:14
So I got that license and that meant that I can only set up at
51:17
one spot. And that worked for me because
51:23
as the cart was taking shape, it clearly wasn't as capable of
51:27
moving. As far as I had hoped and
51:30
thought it would be, I put this electric motor on it.
51:32
That was, you know, the highest powered electric motor possible.
51:37
I had done all this stuff with the gearing of the bike to make
51:39
it capable of Towing these heavy loads.
51:42
And I got these big old batteries for electric motor.
51:46
How heavy, are we talking like the card?
51:49
The card. And remember this card is on the
51:50
back of a bicycle for anyone listening.
51:52
So essentially, a tricycle with a big card in the back, what's
51:55
the weight that you're trying to pull with this electric motor
51:58
and your legs. My best estimate for the weight
52:02
of the coffee cycle, in its original form, including Rider
52:07
weight, water, weight, and milk weight, and all the equipment
52:11
and steel, and wood, and battery.
52:13
And motor was about 1,200 pounds.
52:17
She, and it might have even been More than that.
52:20
I totaled up a lot of numbers, and I got to 1,000 pounds.
52:24
And then I just said, these estimates are too low.
52:27
It's got to be more. So, 12, hundreds of number of
52:31
sort of been working with. And so, you know, I thought this
52:34
thing would have a 30 35 mile range, including some hills.
52:39
And I was so so wrong. We broke the motor twice, during
52:43
testing testing the brakes once. And I forget what the other time
52:48
was we warrantied at both times and then on the very first day
52:53
of business, I use the motor to get out to physically from the
52:58
shop was in the back of this kind of very large parking lot
53:01
area, and it was maybe out to the parking lot out to the side
53:05
of the road and back because maybe a quarter mile and that
53:11
was what I wear. The only place I could think of
53:12
to set it up because I knew it couldn't make it much further
53:15
and so I motored it, you know, with my legs and the electric
53:18
motor out to the side of the road, stopped out there, serve
53:22
some drinks for a day, the end of the day.
53:24
I rolled the gates closed and locked up and I turned on the
53:28
motor and I went to turn around and the motor broke And I was
53:35
the third and final time, the motor broke on the coffee cycle,
53:38
because I never never replaced it after that.
53:41
So after that, it was just my legs.
53:43
Moving me out there and I had done my grand launch, so I was
53:48
committed. So I just peddled out there
53:51
every day and luckily, it was geared low enough that I could
53:54
get out there. There was some slight Hills, but
53:57
with 1,200 pounds the tiniest Hill.
54:01
And when I said he'll, I'm thinking like Like roads are
54:04
sort of curved for, for drainage, you know, the center
54:08
double yellow stripe in the middle, is the highest peak in
54:10
the edges and the go to the gutter, so that water flows off.
54:14
That is a big hill to the coffee cycle.
54:18
I would almost stopped me. My legs would just barely be
54:22
able to push forward on the cart would inch forward until I got
54:26
to the top. And then thank goodness.
54:28
We put really good brakes on it because those those never never
54:32
had a problem. We put Really, really good
54:34
brakes. I can only relate because I know
54:39
on my first bicycle packing trip where I was camping and carrying
54:43
all my gear. I started I started riding on
54:46
flat ground and I hit a small hill and I actually thought my
54:50
bicycle was broken. I got off and like checked
54:52
everything thinking like why am I not moving faster?
54:56
And I was maybe carrying 40, 50 pounds all and food and
55:00
everything. And I was like there must be
55:02
something wrong here. There's no No way, I could be
55:03
moving this slowly and turned out.
55:06
No, it's just a little bit of extra weight.
55:08
Makes a big difference when you're on two wheels, in your
55:11
case. So you're open on the side of
55:14
the road. You mentioned it earlier and I
55:17
will vouch for you are a stubborn person.
55:21
You spend a year there? What keeps you going for that
55:25
year? And what, what is the decide?
55:27
How long was it before? You said, you know what, I need
55:29
a real. I need a retail location.
55:31
I need to find a place. Where people can find me, you
55:35
know, what was the, what was the reason why you said, you know?
55:37
I don't want to be outside on the side of the road anymore.
55:40
I mean, I could think of a million reasons why I wouldn't
55:42
want to having run a business that was predicated on, being
55:46
out on the road, but what was it for you, you know, the plan was
55:50
always to open a retail location.
55:53
The plan was always that and plan A Was we didn't do plan a
55:59
by the way, sneak sneak peek a little foreshadowing here, but I
56:02
did not work out as it so often doesn't.
56:05
Um, but plan a was to make enough money with my low
56:10
overhead and side of the road business that I could invest
56:14
that money in to build out of a real Cafe.
56:17
And that plan was really predicated upon me.
56:21
Setting up in a high traffic area, you know, think close to
56:24
the boardwalk and PB, I'm friends with the owners of
56:27
oscars Mexican seafood, which has a location really close to
56:30
the boardwalk. And we have a sort of a business
56:33
relationship with us. They helped me kind of get my
56:35
permitting set up and Wan the owner over at Oscars is a really
56:40
really great guy and great food obviously.
56:44
And so I was sort of planning on because at the time they had,
56:47
you know, breakfast service at that Oscars but no coffee.
56:51
And I thought Peck I can pull up my coffee cart in front of here,
56:54
and sell a ton of coffee, be a great mutually beneficial
56:58
relationship. I don't have to have any food
57:00
but I'll have these customers and then of course the cart
57:03
wasn't even capable of getting a tenth of the way their 100th of
57:07
the way, they're probably. Um and there's nowhere to store
57:10
it there and by the time I launched it actually read.
57:14
Um their whole front area and launched a little small coffee
57:17
program. And yeah it just didn't work out
57:19
at all. You know, where I set up so
57:23
close to my shop was was never really part of the plan.
57:27
It was just sort of, hey, can I make this work?
57:30
And the consequences for it? Not working.
57:33
Aren't that bad. While still have a fully
57:36
functioning coffee cart. I can still try to figure out
57:38
something else if this doesn't work.
57:41
And so, how long does it take to figure out whether it worked or
57:45
not? And so it's about, you know,
57:49
nine months in was my was probably my last last day and
57:53
I'm 10 months in and make it quite a full year.
57:56
And we had some successes and we were paying our bills.
57:58
Barely paying my bills, unmolested are, we're paying my
58:03
bills, but really barely. And there were some days out
58:06
there that were brutally slow, and I mentioned before that, I'm
58:10
an introvert and I love to read. So I always bring a book with me
58:13
out there. And when it was really hot, I
58:16
would get really hot on those cold.
58:18
It would be freaking really cold because you're not moving at
58:21
all. Yours waiting.
58:23
I don't know how the hot dog carts in New York, do it.
58:25
I mean, gosh, if I think it's cold and San Diego like those
58:28
poor poor poor people. They're all hopped up on MSG
58:32
from the hot dog. So, it's not even notice it.
58:35
That is some delicious, delicious, MSG, your Umami.
58:39
And so sometimes I have a book on my Kindle and I had a book on
58:42
my Kindle on a Thursday. And I was already looking for
58:46
places to relocate to I was looking for a garage that I
58:50
could park my cart in. That would have water and
58:54
electricity to do that a maintenance on the cart that was
59:00
in a more populated area. I was thinking maybe I'd go
59:02
around to residential houses and drop off a letter saying we are
59:06
interested in renting out your garage.
59:07
And I was I was thinking how can I make this work and there was a
59:12
the area that we're actually currently located And in Pacific
59:15
Beach is actually exactly where I was looking on Grand Avenue,
59:20
not too close to the beach but closer to a lot of the
59:23
residential areas in crowd, the Crown Point area, Pacific Beach
59:28
and I was trying to, I looked at businesses along my row, I rode
59:31
my bike up and down and roll slowly.
59:33
We could all these different businesses that I could maybe
59:34
talk to to say hey can I set up on your private commercial
59:37
property out front and then maybe I can find a garage nearby
59:42
there, you know that I can pedal to and park it.
59:44
It says, looking at these areas and I hadn't found anything
59:48
quite yet and I was like, maybe, you know, maybe we'll push a
59:52
little further see how he do another month or two, you know,
59:56
when can I do this work? Since I'm already working, six,
59:58
seven days a week and I haven't found any like real winners.
1:00:01
I've found two or three places that I thought I was maybe gonna
1:00:04
approach. There's a Hari Krishna Temple.
1:00:08
I was thinking a, you've got a lot of sidewalk space.
1:00:10
You know, you might let this thing set up out here, you know,
1:00:13
help offset your rent. I don't know what, you know, I
1:00:15
don't know what I was thinking, but I got to work on a Thursday
1:00:18
Wednesday and Thursday was usually pretty good today at the
1:00:21
shop and I had my book with me on my Kindle.
1:00:24
It was a brutally, slow day was brutal.
1:00:27
I think I made $20 that day maybe eighteen to twenty two
1:00:30
dollars and somewhere in there which is like four coffees five
1:00:33
coffees. You know this is like nothing
1:00:35
over a seven hour day outside and I cracked open my Kindle and
1:00:41
I was 94% of the way through my And I read very fast and I
1:00:47
didn't have another book on there and I didn't have internet
1:00:50
and I was screwed. I was I was bored nothing to do
1:00:55
and so I pulled out my phone and I open up my commercial real
1:00:59
estate app loopnet and I started looking for places to rent and I
1:01:05
had done that before a couple times and so I don't know how I
1:01:08
had never seen this place because it's been available for
1:01:10
rent for I think a year before I moved in coffee Cycles in what?
1:01:14
It was a new building when we moved in, and we're the first
1:01:17
commercial, tenants in that building, it's mostly
1:01:20
residential. Most of the residential building
1:01:22
with, with two commercial units in it, and it was right at Grand
1:01:27
and Ingram tons of car traffic on those roads.
1:01:30
There's tons of people that live around it, the median income is
1:01:35
nice and high as they can afford specialty, fancy coffee.
1:01:39
You know, I just I just said, this is kind of perfect and it's
1:01:43
small enough that I can maybe a Otto's 450 square feet, which
1:01:46
from what I had calculated was like pretty much perfect for me
1:01:50
and I just kept looking at it, the whole rest of the day.
1:01:55
I, you know, I kept looking at other places and I'm trying to
1:01:57
find something, but I found nothing even close to as you
1:02:00
know, to me. Perfect is what this spot was
1:02:02
and it's funny because I've had some people praise my location
1:02:08
to the moon and other people tell me what the heck were you
1:02:13
thinking opening up a shop here? Here in P because it's not it's
1:02:16
not near a month. A bunch of other commercial
1:02:17
areas a bunch of other commercial spots, it's really
1:02:20
more residential and businesses do tend to thrive when they're
1:02:24
by other businesses. But to me it coffee shops always
1:02:27
been about community and you can get community with other
1:02:30
businesses for sure. But a community where people
1:02:33
live is really special to me. And so that's like I said it was
1:02:37
it was perfect too man. So I rode my bike really slowly
1:02:42
up to it on my way home. And I peered Through the
1:02:46
Windows, you know, of this place that I had found on loopnet and
1:02:51
I could see the whole layout of what I wanted in the shop from
1:02:54
there. I could see where I was going to
1:02:56
park the bike, how I was going to modify it so that you
1:02:59
wouldn't have a seat anymore but you'd have a whole pour-over
1:03:02
bar. I could see this seating area
1:03:04
bar and the corner. I could see where I'd put
1:03:06
storage in the back and I could just see the whole shop and it's
1:03:10
just this bare concrete room, you know.
1:03:12
But I knew what it was going to be.
1:03:14
Yeah. So was it one factor?
1:03:16
That really drove me away from that spot?
1:03:18
No I mean it was that spot was always sort of a desperation
1:03:21
move in a temporary measure to try to figure out what I could
1:03:25
do and then you know, again back against the wall, desperation
1:03:29
lighting a fire under my butt, I just had to make something
1:03:31
happen so that is part one of the
1:03:43
interview with In part 2, we'll delve more into the recent
1:03:47
history of coffee cycle. Why Chris decided to launch the
1:03:50
roasting side of the cafe and what he's learned from that
1:03:53
expansion. So far during today's show,
1:03:56
Chris talked about Starbucks is being a big reason we transition
1:03:59
from second wave coffee into third wave coffee.
1:04:02
And I just want to remind you very roughly what those phases
1:04:05
of coffee, referred to all the way back at the beginning.
1:04:08
The first wave was our original commercial coffee in a can often
1:04:12
super dark roasted all to hell. Bitter coffee which you found in
1:04:16
the supermarket aisle. The second wave of coffee took
1:04:19
everything a step further with more of a focus on flavored
1:04:21
drinks. Thanks syrup, added or flavored
1:04:23
lattes. We were still dealing with more
1:04:26
overly, roasted Supermarket quality coffee, but the
1:04:29
beginning of a coffee Community was developing, and we were
1:04:32
recognizing that the origin of a coffee mattered.
1:04:35
There was also a passion for the cafe experience.
1:04:37
If not yet for the coffee itself, this is where Starbucks
1:04:41
came into the picture and then really helped push coffee. into
1:04:44
the third wave, which is where we've been for some time with a
1:04:48
focus on true, coffee flavor, notes lighter, roasts, latte,
1:04:52
art, transparency around, roasting dates, and places of
1:04:55
origin and the proliferation of manual coffee brewing, It's been
1:05:01
theorized on this show, most recently by Jeff Taylor owner of
1:05:04
Bird Rock Coffee Roasters that we've transitioned out of or are
1:05:08
actually in the process of transitioning out of the third
1:05:11
wave of coffee to something, completely new innovation and
1:05:15
coffee is widespread. And the mass awareness of
1:05:18
specialty or craft coffee is happening right now.
1:05:21
You are a part of that just by listening to this show.
1:05:25
It has the feel of a good old days problem where you don't
1:05:28
really know you're in the good old days until they're gone.
1:05:31
Perhaps someday. We'll look back at this time as
1:05:33
the fourth wave, but we're going to have to wait to find out.
1:05:38
That's it. For today's show, we are coming
1:05:40
up on the end of season. 3 of the roast West Coast coffee
1:05:43
podcast which seems completely crazy.
1:05:46
But somehow time keeps flying by Thanksgiving is already behind
1:05:50
us and holiday season of giving is upon us.
1:05:53
There is a lot going on in the world right now and I'm a big
1:05:56
believer in not buying stuff just to buy stuff.
1:06:00
So if you're going to be doing some gift-giving this year, I'm
1:06:03
throwing my recommendation hat behind giving the gift of
1:06:05
experiences and good. You can double down on that by
1:06:10
giving the gift of a coffee subscription, which is not only
1:06:13
great for the person getting it but it will likely support a
1:06:16
small business coffee roaster, which is also good for the
1:06:19
community. I'm biased, but this shows roast
1:06:22
industry Partners like most or coffee coffee cycle.
1:06:26
Roasting Maria, coffee and dilip coffee are great places to start
1:06:31
your search for a coffee subscription.
1:06:33
You can find links to them on Rose to westcoast.com.
1:06:37
Zoom bar, coffee and tea cafe latte.
1:06:39
Our first light whiskey and Camp.
1:06:41
Coffee company will definitely have the stocking stuffers and
1:06:44
the high quality merchandise that you need to feel good about
1:06:47
the gifts that you're giving. And I just need to shout out,
1:06:50
Cape Horn coffee importers for supporting the local coffee
1:06:53
Community. As a whole, and if you just want
1:06:56
to share the gift of a good podcast, newsletter and support
1:07:00
a local writer who's putting pretty much all of his
1:07:02
subscription money back into this podcast or into his coffee
1:07:05
mug. You Can give the gift of a paid
1:07:08
subscription to roast westcoast.com.
1:07:11
This show will still always be free on your favorite podcast
1:07:14
platforms, like apple or Spotify, but paid subscription
1:07:17
to the newsletter. On sub stack, make such a huge
1:07:20
difference in my ability to produce this show and soon I'll
1:07:24
be announcing some big expansion plans, making those
1:07:27
subscriptions even more valuable to me and to you, thank you for
1:07:30
supporting or even considering to support and for tweeting at
1:07:34
Netflix about your desire. Nee your knee For a roast, West
1:07:38
Coast coffee smarter travel show.
1:07:40
That's what I'm hoping to get for the holidays.
1:07:43
This episode of the roast West Coast coffee podcast is was has
1:07:48
been written produced and recorded by me Ryan wolfed.
1:07:52
I hope this show is found you happy healthy and with at least
1:07:56
enough sanity to make it through the day.
1:07:59
And please always tip your Baristas and be sure to drink
1:08:03
good coffee.