Latest / DunkersPodcast / From Boardrooms to Beach Huts | Reinventing Life by the Sea with Julian Turner

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From Boardrooms to Beach Huts | Reinventing Life by the Sea with Julian Turner · DunkersPodcast

0:10
Welcome back to the Dunker's Podcast, the only place where
0:14
freezing your bits off counts as therapy and talking nonsense
0:17
counts as Wellness. Today we're joined by a man
0:20
who's got more job titles than a royal press release, Julian
0:24
Turner. He's an award-winning CEOA board
0:27
mentor, a product innovator, the founder of Four Turners, which
0:32
is a consultancy that believes great leadership starts with
0:35
great conversation. So let's see what happens today.
0:39
He's helped launch everything from smart mirrors in palaces
0:43
and airports to next Gen. wheelchairs with Centaur
0:46
Robotics. Before wheelchairs, Julian also
0:49
owned and ran a successful Motor Company called Westfield, which
0:52
achieved some amazing undertakings in what many may
0:56
have thought started life as a kit car.
0:59
I'm still recovering from one of his past drivers attempts on my
1:03
life yesterday. We'll get to that a little bit
1:05
later. Basically, if it's high tech
1:08
energy and game changing, Julian's probably already
1:11
working on it. But when he's not reshaping the
1:14
future, he's right here in Abersoch, throwing himself into
1:18
the Irish Sea with the rest of us loonies.
1:21
So how does he feel? How does he balance in fact,
1:24
boardrooms, breakthroughs and belly flops into icy water.
1:29
Let's find out. Welcome, Julian all.
1:31
Right. Apparently you're living proof
1:33
that even the busiest brains need a dunk now and then.
1:37
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
1:38
I think you do need to have time to just have a think to
1:42
yourself. And I do that, you know, for
1:45
myself, but also for my team. I do say to them, in all the
1:49
companies that I work in, every one of my team members should
1:53
have at least half an hour to an hour a week, just time to think
1:56
things through, look at different ways of doing things
1:59
and just think about different innovation and ideas.
2:02
And think junking is is sort of one of those those therapies
2:06
that might get through to them. Yes, I, I think so, yeah.
2:11
You know, I've suggested lots of things as you could well
2:14
imagine. Like there's the door.
2:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's the door.
2:18
You know, read this book. Yeah, I'm very fond of every
2:21
company not working. I'll go in with who moved my
2:23
cheese. Oh, right.
2:24
A short management book to get them to think about, you know,
2:27
things differently. Yeah, all the way through to to
2:30
dunking. Now obviously it's a little bit
2:32
different in the Middle East because the water's about 35°,
2:34
but all true, the principle's still exactly the same.
2:37
Yeah, yeah. And the whole point about
2:38
dunking is it doesn't have to be in cold water.
2:41
I mean, that's right. Yeah.
2:41
Up to this point, most of the sort of the tales and the
2:44
anecdotes that we've heard from people I've talked to on
2:47
Dunker's podcast has always revolved around the fact of I'm
2:51
going to freeze my bits off and why on earth am I doing this?
2:55
You don't need to. You can dunk anywhere, anytime.
2:58
Yeah. And to me, it's about taking
3:00
yourself out of your comfort zone.
3:02
So whether that's cold water, you know, WAVY when we've been
3:06
in ties, wind, shallow water, jellyfish, doesn't really
3:11
matter. I think it's the ability of
3:13
people to take yourself out of your comfort zone and do
3:16
something different is the skill that I think a lot of people
3:19
have got in the Duncan team. But also we try to emulate in
3:23
businesses that actually you can't just do the same thing
3:26
over and over again. You've got to do things
3:28
differently, and you've got to start by doing that yourself.
3:31
And this comes back to that anecdote.
3:33
If you do the same all the time, you just get the same result.
3:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
3:38
So how was how was your first, when was your first dunk?
3:41
You also you seem to have been there forever.
3:44
Yours. Yeah, so I did question my
3:47
sister, mum and dad and everybody about this, and it's a
3:51
bit of a funny theory. So I don't think the term Duncan
3:55
came into it, but we used to get up at 5:00 in the morning when I
3:59
was about 16. We used to go water skiing on
4:02
the on the sea, in the boat. Yeah, yeah.
4:04
We never used to wear wet suits from, you know, the rule was
4:07
from the 1st of May through to September, no wet suits were
4:10
allowed. So I guess in some ways, you
4:12
know, we used to jump in and get that fresh, you know, dopamine
4:15
hit every time, put the wakeboard on or water skis,
4:18
whatever we're doing, and then get up and get on water skiing
4:21
and wakeboarding. So I think in some ways we've
4:24
been dunking a long time. Yeah.
4:25
But now it's, you know, sort of done in a very different way.
4:29
So the answer is, I don't know, but I have sort of been doing
4:33
it, you know, at the other end. Yeah, we're doing different
4:36
ways. But, you know, we started doing
4:38
it at the other end of the beach with the dog, my sister's dog.
4:42
Right. And then obviously, you know, I
4:43
think it's just sort of come around.
4:44
And I've been good friends with Emma and Teams and.
4:47
Found it. One of our family, yes.
4:50
Yeah. And and went to school with
4:51
Hattie. So.
4:52
Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah.
4:54
You survived? Yeah.
4:55
My God, Yeah. I don't know how, but I do.
4:57
But yeah, you know, love, love both of them fabulous people.
5:01
And I, I think it's just, I've sort of just evolved into the
5:04
sort of dunking process I guess now and the, and the beautiful
5:07
people that go and do it everyday.
5:09
So. Yeah, so give us the give us the
5:12
gossip on Emma and Hattie. You can pay me as much money as
5:16
you want, but my lips are sealed so.
5:19
How's that for loyal friendship? Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
5:22
So do you have any sort of post dunk or pre dunk routine?
5:26
Not really. I guess getting everybody on
5:28
White House Drive up and out the door I think is the is the key,
5:32
checking to see who's coming. And then, you know, walking
5:36
down, which is, it's beautiful actually just walking down,
5:40
seeing it. We have a bit of a joke about
5:42
the little sandbar, obviously as we're walking down the hill to
5:45
London Sea. And then, yeah, we just swimming
5:49
goggles on and you get, and the only thing I do really always do
5:54
is dive in because I, I just love the feeling of going in the
5:57
water and then coming out and, you know, I love that.
6:00
It's one of the best bits about it.
6:01
It is, yeah. Yeah.
6:02
And then I know that a lot of this concern, but basically from
6:06
the females, although the males is probably just as bad at
6:09
times, is that they'll just try and creep in and creep in.
6:12
And you, you really need that mammalian dive effect when you
6:16
can just go in because your body just, it just levels out,
6:20
doesn't it? The temperature loss just levels
6:22
out. It's brilliant.
6:22
Yes, I've seen loads of stuff on this biohackers website about
6:27
what the best way is to go dunking and how long you should
6:29
go in a nice bath and stuff like that.
6:31
And there's loads of theories, but in essence it says, you
6:34
know, go in, but you need to put your head under the water or,
6:37
you know, part of your neck to get the real effects of it.
6:39
But I, you know, I've done it in lots of different ways forwards,
6:42
dived in backwards, upside down, God, you name it, close on,
6:46
close off. So, you know, I think just
6:50
whatever works for you. I think you get a beauty, you
6:53
know, a beautiful dopamine it from it, regardless of how you
6:55
do it. So just whatever works.
6:57
But you know, I'd love to just took myself in, as you've seen.
7:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, absolutely.
7:02
And the, the the worry for let me sort of assure our listener,
7:05
the worry is that sometimes he doesn't ever seem as though he
7:07
wants to come out. And when we questioned him in
7:09
the middle of winter that this smug.
7:12
It's OK, Mark, I've got a bit more timber on me than you.
7:16
I think I could. You've been very polite, Mark.
7:18
Thank you. And then we just go for that
7:21
walk. That's, yeah, therapeutic walk
7:24
up to Jeff's groins. Yeah, give him a kick in the
7:27
head. That's it.
7:28
Yeah. Loves it every time.
7:30
Yeah. And, you know, it's beautiful.
7:32
It's I, I, I find it really nice that everybody goes for a walk
7:36
afterwards because that's the time when you get to spend time
7:39
talking to people because it's, you know, obviously we talk on
7:42
the way down to the beach, which is lovely.
7:44
But the fact, you know, each time I think I talk to different
7:46
people about completely different things every time I'm
7:49
here, you know, which is lovely because sometimes I'm having a
7:51
moan, sometimes listen to their moans.
7:53
Sometimes we're trying to sort the world out and you know,
7:56
we've done everything from, you know, sourcing Donald Trump
8:00
situation out through to how we're going to how we're going
8:04
to stitch you up for the next dinner, you know, so there's all
8:07
sorts of stuff we talk. About yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:09
I think you've got a mean streak going through, you know?
8:11
You. Certainly certainly do have an
8:13
if yesterday was anything to to to compare Anyway, I'm going to
8:17
get and I'm going to flip back to that because that was such an
8:20
awesome day. Your so your background, I mean
8:22
one of your many backgrounds, one of your many hats is the
8:26
Westfield Motor Company. So just just just tease because
8:31
there will be a lot of people out there that understand
8:33
Westfield, seeing them with like 1.
8:37
So what is Westfield for those that don't know?
8:40
So, yeah, so, so Westfield was a car company that was founded in
8:45
1982 by a family in the West Midlands and we acquired it in
8:52
2006 and acquired several other small companies, integrated them
8:58
all together. We then branched out into
9:01
autonomous vehicles as part of the brand as well as
9:04
electrification and hybrid vehicles.
9:08
So it was a very innovative company, well ahead of its time.
9:13
We developed, you know, things like World first One make race
9:16
series, which was pure electric, as well as developing race
9:19
series all over the world and developing some amazing cars to
9:23
give Dr. experiences a bit like what you did yesterday over at
9:26
the track and angle seat. But yeah, in essence it was a
9:30
team of people that were brought together under one roof of a
9:35
factory to manufacture vehicles from, you know, scratch all the
9:40
way through to the testing, validation and distribution all
9:42
over the world. It was a it was a great success,
9:46
had its challenges with all the different things that we've had
9:49
over the time from, you know, COVID through to supply chain
9:54
issues to, you know, the crash in the automotive industry and
9:57
the economies. So yeah, it's, it's weathered
10:00
very, very well. But you know, we reached a point
10:03
with the company where in essence, we could not take it
10:07
any further forward for because of supply chain issues.
10:09
Oh, really? Yeah, right.
10:11
Were you reliant on the Far East at that point or?
10:14
No, we, well, we were. Is does the motor trade rely on
10:17
the Far East? Like that means so many
10:19
industries seem to rely on China.
10:21
Is the motor trade the same? It is in some ways, but
10:23
especially in the the niche vehicle.
10:25
So if you look at Lotus, you know it's got Toyota.
10:28
I mean, they've changed powertrains, powertrain being an
10:30
engine a lot. So a lot of people, a lot of the
10:33
smaller companies are using existing engines that are out
10:36
there from the bigger companies, gearboxes, differentials and
10:39
components. So when the, when the pandemic
10:42
came along, nobody would have expected it.
10:44
But companies, you know, like Mazda, who we worked with, we
10:47
got their differentials and their gearboxes from them for
10:50
our type approved car. They just turned around and
10:53
said, we can't supply you any. And you just sit down and go,
10:55
oh, OK, now when do you think you can supply then?
10:57
And they're like, we're prioritizing our own cars.
11:00
We haven't got enough for our own like alone you.
11:02
So obviously we then raised this up with Europe, then to Japan
11:05
and we spoke to the head office and they just turned around and
11:07
said, we can't give you any. So I'm sitting there going, oh,
11:11
how on earth are we going to trade through this?
11:13
Because you can't just put a different gearbox in because the
11:16
vehicle has been type approved. It has to have that gearbox in.
11:19
And we ended up, you know, speaking with someone quite high
11:23
up who just said if you really want a date, I think it's going
11:26
to be about 18 months time. So, so obviously I had to then
11:30
go back to the board and say we either need to retype, approve
11:33
another vehicle with a Ford and, you know, engineer gearbox or
11:36
something else or to develop our own or, you know, we need to
11:41
look at their options. So and that was obviously why we
11:44
looked at the whole situation and and then sold the company to
11:48
another, another party that wanted to take it forward.
11:51
Because they presumably just simply got the finance and they
11:54
they, they, they got the ability to hold on to the company names.
11:59
So they, yeah, they took, they took the company forward.
12:02
I think, you know, they thought that they could get the parts
12:06
from the from the same supply chain.
12:09
Mine's bigger than yours is. Something like that.
12:12
So, you know, I was very honest and open about, you know, what
12:15
was going on in in the supply chain around the world.
12:19
They thought they could do better.
12:20
So you know that we left them to it so.
12:23
And there, there hangs another story.
12:25
Yes. That's it.
12:26
So yesterday we were in aerial cars, which was an amazing
12:31
experience. Your your driver.
12:33
I know this has nothing to do with Duncan, but it's worth
12:35
reiterating because Nick and I were sort of almost executed in
12:41
this car. And thanks to you, Julian, with
12:44
managing to speak to Simon the the driver, he presumably was a
12:49
driver of yours. Yes, that's right.
12:51
So I embarked on a programme with our vehicles.
12:56
In essence for those that you've read the really exciting book
12:59
called Fish, which is another silly little management book,
13:02
but I loved it. So what we wanted to do was to
13:05
bring the customer into the purchase of their own vehicle.
13:08
So what we wanted to do was run an event where somebody would
13:12
pay £10 in essence to get a minute and 1/2 in a car being
13:17
driven around by a professional driver.
13:19
And the minute they step out the car, we then give them a, you
13:22
know, a leaflet or a link to a website that said, you know, you
13:25
can now drive like this guy next to you or go next to you and
13:29
they can in essence teach you how to drive like this for 100
13:32
lbs, which is in essence auto testing.
13:35
So it's like a small little track, not times, but it gets
13:39
very competitive obviously with different people.
13:43
So you can go and do that for 100 lbs, which was brilliant.
13:46
You can then go on to the next stage, which is going to do a
13:48
track day and then obviously buy your own car.
13:51
So in, in essence, we were taking people from 10 lbs up to,
13:56
you know, whatever, 50,000 lbs. Yeah, that's it, you know, and
14:00
it worked very, very well. It was a great business model.
14:02
It worked extremely well all over the world.
14:06
It was very hard work, and the cars, as you heard yesterday,
14:09
were phenomenal. And that's why we beat and held,
14:13
you know, Guinness World Records for over 10 years for the
14:16
reliability of our vehicles operating around, you know ±4 G,
14:21
which is the same as what you'd get in a Red Bull stunt
14:24
aircraft. Wow.
14:26
OK, OK, so it's it's serious, serious stream.
14:29
Yeah, well, you heard the driver yesterday.
14:31
You know, he, he, he wouldn't get out of the car, you know,
14:34
all day for 12 hours. You know, he didn't have any
14:37
skin left on his legs from being knocked around all the time
14:40
doing these, you know, extreme driving events.
14:42
But he loved it, you know, and he got out the car to go for a
14:45
wee and he'd end up falling over because he was so dizzy from
14:47
doing the drifting. So but you know, you can see the
14:50
smile on his face. He loved it.
14:52
He wanted to do it. And you know, it was like it's
14:55
own drug in itself and it's dopamine spikes from doing it.
14:58
It was fabulous so. And and part of your background
15:02
is spending quite a lot of time in the Middle East, isn't it?
15:05
Yes, it is now. Yeah.
15:06
So I I'm just. Thinking, reflecting back onto
15:09
yesterday, and I know that there's a lot that we can't say
15:12
because it's, it's obviously confidential, but your
15:14
connection with the Middle East is now sort of dovetailed back
15:18
into your the world and your history of cars, isn't it?
15:21
And yeah. That's right.
15:22
So I obviously as part of the deal I wasn't allowed to
15:26
continue to work in the same area for a period of time and
15:30
the sort of in the in the motor industry and specifically.
15:34
In that when you talk. Racing, Yeah, yeah.
15:37
So obviously I there was 2 reasons.
15:40
One obviously was the contract with two, I also said to myself,
15:43
you know, I was working silly hours.
15:45
It was very hard. The margins are very tight and
15:49
you know, the supply chain was a nightmare.
15:51
So it was really difficult business to be in, especially at
15:54
that time. But you know, now hilariously,
15:58
I've been working for a software company in the Middle East as
16:01
well as doing lots of other things.
16:02
And they approached me about an idea that I had about, you know,
16:06
I don't know, five years ago I think it was, and asked if I'd
16:09
like to take it through to fruition.
16:11
Which is quite hilarious that it's got the possibility to be
16:15
funded by people in the Middle East and launched there.
16:18
But it's not about taking intellectual property to the
16:22
Middle East, it's about growing the UK companies, taking them to
16:25
the next stage and expanding it into the Middle East, which I
16:28
think is everything what I wanted to do.
16:30
I'm just doing it with some different companies than what I
16:33
suggested five years ago. So they're UK companies and they
16:36
are group, they're creating satellites which are in the
16:39
Middle East, which are funded by the Middle East and but still
16:44
ostensibly owned and controlled by the.
16:46
By the UK that's exactly right yeah, because the.
16:48
UK has got a real reputation when it comes to sort of high
16:51
performance cars. It's still, I mean, we, we might
16:55
not make many. I don't know whether we do still
16:58
make cars. I suppose we do in the East,
17:00
yeah, but. We do, yeah, yeah.
17:02
I mean, it's an £8 billion industry actually in this
17:05
country. Yeah.
17:05
The niche vehicle industry, yeah.
17:07
There's a lot of companies and you know, it's not just cars for
17:13
the roads, it's racing cars and it's all the industry associated
17:16
with it from all the parts, race suits, helmets, kit that goes
17:19
with it, carbon fiber parts, everything.
17:22
It's a huge industries part of the UK.
17:24
So it's really, really important part, which is why I was quite
17:28
keen to make this deal happen because I think it will be great
17:32
that it's UK car companies doing it, not somebody else.
17:36
And your connection with the wheelchair business, next
17:39
generation wheelchairs, is that part of sort of is that a funded
17:45
by the the Middle East or is that a completely different
17:48
business? No, that's a totally, totally
17:50
different business. They brought me in because of my
17:53
experience in manufacturing, because I'm the only one that
17:57
did manufacturing at university in the team and also have run a
18:00
manufacturing business for many years doing different things.
18:04
So in some ways we, you know, we even call it a vehicle.
18:06
So it's not even a wheelchair. Just tell us.
18:09
Just tell us, well, because I think everybody has got this
18:11
perception of a wheelchair, just tell us how it's differing.
18:14
Yeah, I mean, a lot of it's the design.
18:17
So it looks spoilers on. Yeah, stuff like that exactly
18:20
can fly. No, it's it's very much a
18:23
futuristic design of a wheelchair.
18:26
There's been a lot of time spent on the design and development of
18:29
that to be different. And lots of people that have
18:32
seen it in mobility impaired have have said it's like it's
18:36
the iPhone of wheelchairs. Really big claim.
18:40
Though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure I'll have Apple after
18:42
me, but we know we'll sort that out when we get to it.
18:44
It's not the first time. So it's really exciting to get
18:48
that feedback from some of the users.
18:51
The uniqueness of it is, is 1, the design, but two, it enables
18:55
not you not just to be operated around, but actually enables you
19:00
to lift up. So do you want me to?
19:05
Yeah. So it enables you to lift up and
19:09
have eye to eye contact with people so that you can, you
19:13
know, have a conversation, have dinner, do lots of different
19:16
things. And there's been a lot of work
19:19
on into that company. It's been operating for a number
19:22
of years and but I was brought in to take that to the next
19:27
stage, get further investment and sort out the manufacturing
19:30
and assembly of them for distribution on a global scale.
19:33
And when do you think that distribution might happen?
19:35
So. Projected.
19:37
Sort of. So we're doing it for winter.
19:40
So that's when we're going to start doing the first deliveries
19:43
of the production intent vehicle and then we're going to start to
19:48
look at different operating environments.
19:50
So the first ones are going to go to the care homes, then we're
19:53
going to be doing airports. So if you get a taxi or car to
19:57
the airport, the idea behind it, it's going to operate
20:00
autonomously and come and drive itself to your car where you're
20:04
going to be dropped off. You get in it, you can then
20:07
drive it yourself through all the shops to the aircraft door
20:10
or through onto your seat. You get into your seat and then
20:12
it drives itself off and goes and parks.
20:15
This is super super futuristic. Yes, yes, it is.
20:18
Yeah. But you know, we're working with
20:19
some of the biggest airlines in the world, which is my, you
20:23
know, some of my links with Emirates and Saudi to try and
20:26
make this a reality. And you know, it's a great
20:29
opportunity as well as, you know, people like Heathrow
20:32
Airport, Manchester Airport Group and and other operators in
20:36
the UK, so. So you've, you obviously have
20:39
got, I mean the more we talk the, the, the deeper your links
20:42
into different businesses go. So if there was one particular
20:47
business that you've all that really always floated your boat
20:50
that you always wanted to do what what's, what is it?
20:54
You know, where do you? Where does Julian Turner come
20:57
from? So I've always been involved in
21:00
transportation or throughout my life, you know, whether it's
21:03
been cars, boats, rail, you know, I've always worked in, in
21:08
the transportation industry and planes.
21:12
I think like, like we spoke about the other day, I didn't
21:16
think that I'd be really passionate about getting back
21:19
into cars. But all it took was for one
21:21
visit to the one of the manufacturers facility who I
21:26
know, you know, known for years, you know, years and years.
21:28
I've worked with these people for 1520 years.
21:30
And as soon as I was back in there, yes, yes, nearly.
21:33
So as soon as I was back in there, I was just like, oh, here
21:35
we go. Yeah, I've done sold.
21:38
And it's the same with, you know, planes as well.
21:40
You know, I spent a lot of time working through the Airbus and
21:42
Boeing all over the world. And, you know, every time I get
21:45
on the plane, I'm exactly the same.
21:47
You know, I'm looking at, you know, when the plane was made,
21:49
what engines it's got on, what configuration it is, everything,
21:53
you know and I think. Must Dr. Nicola Mad?
21:56
It does in some ways I think the worst project I ever did was
21:58
doing an autonomous Rd. sweeper where I came back and started
22:02
talking about rubbish all the time.
22:05
But you know, it's the problem is I think I'm one of those
22:08
people. Everywhere I look I see things
22:12
that can be done better. You know that's.
22:14
An engineer by. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:17
So always been an engineer, so. And I think that's something I
22:21
just got from, you know, being around my dad's, my sister, both
22:25
engineers as well and my brother-in-law.
22:28
So we've come from a family of engineers all the time.
22:30
Very. Creative.
22:31
Yeah, very so. And I think that's where my
22:33
skills lies and the technology taking it forward, but also
22:37
creating the ideas of doing something different, which is.
22:40
Yeah, because if you're a pure technician, then sometimes I
22:44
think we were just speaking off air before we started the
22:47
podcast. Sometimes you just end up down a
22:49
rabbit hole because if you are so technically in in inclined,
22:54
you just don't see the wood for the trees, do you?
22:56
Yeah, and I, I see that regularly.
22:58
So you know you're an. Engineer.
22:59
Yeah, You, you have to take the bit.
23:01
You. You mean you imagine, you
23:03
design, you create, and you see the bigger picture all the time?
23:07
Yeah. And and it's weird because I'm a
23:09
an extrovert, so you wouldn't expect.
23:11
Yeah, you'd be guessed that. Thanks, never got that.
23:14
One my Myers Briggs had to confirm it.
23:16
I didn't believe any of you, but no, I it's, it's an odd to be an
23:21
engineer and an extrovert because obviously engineers tend
23:24
to be very attention to detail and OCD about what they do.
23:29
Whereas, you know, I've always been trained to look at
23:31
holistically and look at the business case, the finances, the
23:34
sales, the marketing, which is why I think I've been quite
23:37
suited to small companies and medium companies that are
23:40
growing or small teams. Yeah, you like that small SME
23:44
chase, don't you? I do, but if you remember, you
23:47
know, I started my career, you know, well, started it several
23:51
times, different airlines and, and working for Boeing, you
23:54
know, I ended up having a team there of people and we ran it as
23:58
as an SME. We didn't run it as Boeing, we
24:00
ran it as an SME because we needed to do something
24:03
different. You had innovative, fast, fast
24:07
change. Accept change, Yeah.
24:09
So it's, yeah, it's a different way of doing it.
24:12
You know, Boeing at that time, I think was probably the world's
24:14
largest employer, and it's very strict in its processes.
24:18
But as you know, as you can imagine a young guy coming in, I
24:21
started questioning all the processes and ruffled lots of
24:23
feathers. But we got we got it done.
24:26
Yeah, we got stuff done. Yeah, well, which is real, sort
24:28
of. That's an accolade to the
24:29
management or the immediate management over you at Boeing
24:32
because they just, you know, they must have thought, oh, we'd
24:35
just give him enough rope. I hang himself if need be.
24:38
Yeah, yeah, pretty much, Yeah. Yeah.
24:39
Well, you got to remember the guy who I worked for was a very
24:43
successful guy. So he was called Alan Mullally.
24:46
Oh, right. So he even I heard of him.
24:49
Yeah. So he ran, you know, he was the
24:51
project manager of the Boeing 777, which is the world's most
24:54
successful aircraft, and then went on to run Boeing and then
24:59
went on to run Ford. So in essence, I've sort of been
25:02
trained by him and, and the way that he thinks, which is
25:06
hilarious when I now, you know, work with some guys from Ford
25:08
and I'm, you know, reciting some of the management techniques
25:11
that he even he, you know, implements on a weekly, monthly
25:15
basis. And you know they.
25:17
They just look at you and think, where did you go?
25:20
That's. Exactly right.
25:21
Yeah. So, you know, we all have a good
25:23
giggle about it, but it's the concept's still still exactly
25:25
the same. Yeah, yeah.
25:26
Well, if it's, yeah, if, if the words are right and then you
25:30
just follow them, don't you? You daft if you don't.
25:32
But you just got to make them your own.
25:33
That's it. I think that's the thing.
25:35
So, OK, so where is, you know, just let me into to a bit of
25:40
background. Where is it from here?
25:41
Where do you go from here? Are you going to just continue
25:44
doing what you're doing? Because I think I'd almost when
25:47
we first met, which couple of years ago, I think I'd assumed
25:50
that you were on the rundown to retirement and nothing could be
25:54
further from the truth. Yeah, yeah.
25:57
Well, if I'm anything like my dad, he retired about 10 times.
26:02
So I've always been very lucky. Every company that I've worked
26:05
with, ever worked with, they've always wanted to do more with
26:08
me. And, you know, that's with the
26:10
people as well. So when the people have left and
26:12
gone elsewhere, you know, I'm still working with them.
26:14
Now, some of them I've started businesses with.
26:17
Some of them you know, I'm still working with.
26:19
So I think that's a great accolade to have and it shows
26:22
that you're doing the right thing.
26:24
I, I don't know, I tried to convince my wife that I was
26:29
allowed to retire last year in some way, shape or form.
26:31
And I was quite clearly told that's absolutely no way
26:35
allowed, which is, you know why? Nicola is a medic.
26:39
No, she's a chief pharmacist. Oh, sorry.
26:41
Yeah, for a hospital, A hospital.
26:44
So she, you know, she's we're very different characters, which
26:47
is why I think we go well, so well together.
26:49
Actually, she's she she keeps calling herself a long-suffering
26:53
wife and as I think most wives probably do, but especially her.
26:58
You know, we when we got married, my sister names as the
27:02
project plan behind us getting married of what we needed to do
27:05
project Peter Pan, which you know, I thought was quite funny.
27:09
And everyone kept saying, you know, your wife needs a
27:11
sainthood, which is probably right.
27:13
You know, she does. But you know, I think my calling
27:18
is in technology in a number of companies.
27:20
And you know, I like working with great people.
27:24
I think you can be doing anything.
27:26
And if you're working with the right people, actually that's
27:29
what your mojo is, getting out of bed every day and going doing
27:31
that. And you can blueprint quite a
27:34
lot from one company to another, can't you?
27:36
You know, it isn't a case of every startup has a is a is sort
27:40
of a brownfield site and you have to start for you.
27:43
There is a lot that you can take back and the more obviously the
27:46
more experienced you are, the more you can take that back.
27:48
Yeah. So everything I do is product
27:51
focus. So even the software I do.
27:54
Focus. Yeah, there's got to be an end
27:56
product rather than a service, Yeah.
27:58
But even the products I look at as a service.
28:01
Ah, right. Because all the time I get
28:03
people going, oh, we've, you know, designed to develop this
28:06
amazing thing. And it's like if you talk to
28:08
your customer about it and that I, no, no, no, I've created, you
28:13
know, I've created it, I've done it, I've done the development.
28:15
It's like, but if I don't want to buy it, then it's a complete
28:17
waste of time, isn't it? So, you know, even with the
28:20
software company, you know, I, I try to put them, the people that
28:25
I work with in the shoes of other people and say, imagine
28:29
you are the customer, what would you want to see?
28:32
And then I get them to write it down and then I say to them, and
28:35
now go and speak to the customer and they're like, Oh, we can't
28:37
do that. It's a, it's a car park
28:39
operator. I'm like, go and talk to him and
28:42
show him what your idea is and bash the ideas around with him
28:45
and say, you know, what do you think to this?
28:46
Is it a good idea? Or what would you do
28:48
differently? And it's a very different
28:50
mindset. But to me, that's more customer
28:54
focus with the service that we're offering because they're
28:57
now coming back going, can you add this?
28:59
Can we have that? And you know, if you add this
29:02
service, we can generate more income together.
29:04
You know, so actually it's opening up huge opportunities
29:08
between us in not just the area operating, but in additional
29:13
services that generate money for both of parties involved.
29:16
So I see that as a success. And you work with Mspark, don't
29:21
you, up in West Anglesey? Yes, I do, yeah.
29:23
From what I'm sort of picking up here, you're forgive me during
29:29
the comparison. It's almost a bit your your
29:31
mantra. It feels very much like Peter
29:34
Jones from the Dragon's Den. It's you know, it's pragmatic.
29:37
It's torture customer who's going to pay for this.
29:41
And yeah, I'm just thinking that Mspark might in someday in the
29:45
future put their own little Dragon's Den together because,
29:48
you know, you, that's the thing that is so testing.
29:52
I think that's probably why the program is so successful,
29:56
because it actually puts people in 2 minutes on the metal.
29:59
Yeah, and exactly right. The work with M Spark is really
30:03
exciting. So you've got to remember when I
30:07
finished with Westfield, I was put into a situation where I was
30:09
working for a very rich individual that wanted to
30:13
diversify their portfolio. So I went round all the
30:16
universities and innovation centres that I knew to look at
30:20
what the new technology was coming through and that was.
30:22
Like a scout. Yeah, yeah, exactly right.
30:24
Yeah, so. IP Scout.
30:25
Yes, intellectual property. Scout and it wasn't just, you
30:28
know, let's go and buy start-ups.
30:30
It was what technology, you know, what the trends, what's
30:33
happening in the, in these different industries.
30:35
And I had quite a wide scope. So I was looking at everything
30:38
from small modular reactors to hydrogen to electrification to
30:44
aviation to healthcare. So my, you know, my remit was
30:49
huge, but it was really exciting to go and see some of the latest
30:53
technology. But I could quite clearly see
30:56
where, you know, the teams needed help, the technology
30:59
needed help and where things were on the development scale,
31:03
technology readiness level to me and you.
31:04
But you know, were they early prototype?
31:07
Did they need more money to accelerate it or were they ready
31:09
to commercialize it in the Middle East or further afield?
31:13
So that was really exciting. But now I've got those contacts
31:17
in those different innovation centres, I can just pick up a
31:20
phone and go. Have you got some that can do
31:22
this? What's happening with this
31:23
company? Do they want help, you know,
31:25
commercializing in the Middle East or something?
31:26
Where else? So you've got to remember I've
31:29
I've lived and worked in every continent pretty much over my
31:33
years. So I've developed contacts over
31:36
there to help in different areas, which has been really
31:38
good. It's all about contacts.
31:39
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I'm curious really, in a
31:41
way, because what's coming out of the conversation for me is
31:44
the fact that you've always been in transport.
31:46
You've always been or associated with transport of some sort.
31:49
You've always been an engineer. You love dunking.
31:52
Have you ever done anything with submarines?
31:54
Yes. Damn, I thought I'd catch you
31:57
up. Yeah, sorry.
31:58
Yeah, yeah, many years ago. So we did the safety case on the
32:02
astute astute class summary. Oh, really?
32:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Many years.
32:07
I thought it was a little bit boring actually at the time, but
32:11
I think it gives you a fabulous grounding for taking that into
32:15
other industries because it was so safety critical, yeah.
32:19
Yeah, obviously. Yeah.
32:20
And then I actually ended up doing a contract with Devonport
32:23
Management Limited to look at the new aircraft carrier that
32:25
came out of that. So again, you know it's follow
32:28
on work because they were quite impressed with some of the work
32:31
that we've done before so. Yeah, well, we're very, we're
32:34
very lucky to have you here this afternoon, that's for sure,
32:36
because there's a lot of people that are after you or after your
32:40
time. After my time might sound
32:41
better, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
32:43
They might be after you for other things, George.
32:45
That's why you keep moving. Yeah, Yeah, I'm peripatetic.
32:48
I'll be work here and I'll work there.
32:50
You just keep going. Yeah.
32:51
So, OK, so if you sort of said what was the sort of one thing
32:57
that I try and and and garner from my guest is what's the sort
33:03
of the furniture of your life? What are the things that you
33:06
hold really dear that you think I'm always going to hold on to
33:10
those because they define me? What would those be?
33:15
A bit of a. Toughie.
33:16
Yeah, it is. It's that's and I think it's
33:18
changed a lot Mark as well. Yeah, so.
33:21
Because of. I think.
33:26
Just that shit happens is that I think things.
33:29
Shit happens, but realising stuff over a period of time, you
33:33
know, quite openly, I used to put my work before my family,
33:38
which a lot of people do. You get sucked into it and and I
33:43
always I think that's something that I perhaps developed younger
33:46
being here, you know, putting sport, but before family and you
33:50
know, girlfriends at the time, you know, I do.
33:53
It does make me laugh. You know, I can remember solar
33:56
wet suits, I think doing an advert saying my girlfriend says
34:00
that she won't be here if I go windsurfing, you know, and I'll
34:04
miss her. And I was just like, absolutely,
34:06
if it's windy, I'm off. You know, doesn't matter what's
34:08
going on, I'm off, which is, you know, why I got to know Farrell
34:12
and everybody with the windsurfing team down here.
34:14
So, you know, and I absolutely loved it.
34:17
I absolutely love water sports. But back to, you know, back to
34:21
your question, I think it has changed over the years.
34:24
I used to have, you know, inbred into my mind very clearly about
34:30
integrity was valued more than anything else by, you know, my
34:33
family, especially my father. Was that a father?
34:36
Father to something. It was, yeah.
34:37
And he was just like, you know, just whatever happens, it
34:40
doesn't matter whether you've got money.
34:42
Not anything. If you've got your integrity,
34:44
that's more important. Than anything.
34:46
Else so so I think that has really been imprinted on me from
34:50
a very young age. And Oh yes, I have swayed from
34:53
the path several times doing all sorts of crazy stuff.
34:56
Oh. I'm glad you're human.
34:57
Yeah, yeah, you know, we're still come back to that same
35:00
thinking. And I think having a family's
35:04
been the biggest change in my life and having, you know, 2
35:08
girls with three girls because I've got my wife as well,
35:10
obviously, but 2 girls has really changed my perspective
35:13
and and my appetite for risk, I think because I used to be
35:18
crazy. Do you know, heli biking off the
35:20
top of, you know, mountains in New Zealand and Red Bull stunt
35:24
aircraft, you know, doing all sorts of things.
35:26
And, and now I look at it and go, you know, actually, it's
35:28
more important that I'm here for them.
35:30
And, and health actually is, is more important because, you
35:34
know, I've had a few scares with things over the years, but I
35:38
think to me it's getting that right balance of everything.
35:42
But if you know you, if you said to me what's the most important
35:45
thing, I'd, I'd hand on heart say integrity.
35:49
But I think with where I work and what I do, I'm really keen
35:54
now to give, you know, people, young people a chance.
35:59
But predominantly, you know, ladies, I've got an all female
36:04
software team in the Middle East now.
36:08
People, you know, were saying, yeah, that's really, that's just
36:11
understand why on earth did you do that?
36:13
If you actually went to Saudi Arabia five years ago, women
36:16
weren't able to drive, they weren't able to work. 5.
36:20
Years ago. Five years ago, yeah.
36:21
Wow, that change is amazing. It has.
36:24
I've, that's what I've seen. You know, So now when you arrive
36:27
in Saudi Arabia, you've got ladies, women working and, you
36:31
know, everybody over the age of 18, I guess over there is, you
36:33
know, working in customs, looking at your passport, doing
36:36
your visas, driving, yeah, driving cars.
36:40
You know, the driving thing's still a bit difficult, but it's
36:44
a heck of a lot different to where it was five years ago.
36:47
So I'm really proud and I say to my girls, you know, I was like,
36:50
I am so proud one that I've got 2 girls because you've inspired
36:53
me to have an all female software team.
36:58
And it's, it's funny, they're the most amazing team I've ever
37:01
worked with actually really different diverse team.
37:05
But my goodness me do we get stuff done and everybody comes
37:09
out of things with different angles.
37:11
So I think in my mind there is a lot of potential of untapped
37:16
women in engineering but also in management positions from a very
37:21
young age because I think they are capable of a lot more than
37:25
they're given credit for. Or opportunity.
37:28
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
37:30
It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's stunning that you should
37:35
say that because I think that's that's probably shared by not as
37:38
many people as they should do, but.
37:40
Yeah, if you, even if you went to me Mark, 10 years ago, I'd
37:43
have laughed at this conversation saying really, you
37:45
know, I would no way have an all female team.
37:47
And especially having women and engineering, you know, and I
37:50
did, I really struggled with when we owned Westfields and ran
37:53
it, you know, getting women engineers in to help build the
37:56
cars and do the things it was. Just a chuffy.
37:59
Yeah, it was a male dominated area and I think it was a
38:01
disgrace and that, you know, I think people should be doing
38:05
more to encourage women to do it.
38:06
And it is getting better, but there's a long way to go.
38:10
And you know, like what really I love are things like, you know,
38:13
my daughter announced last year she's going to sail around the
38:15
world single handedly, which I was just, you know,
38:20
unfortunately television inspires these things with I
38:22
think is it true, true spirit? I think the film is of, you
38:25
know, the young lady from Australia who sailed around the
38:28
world. So I just think there's some
38:30
great inspirational opportunities for for a lot more
38:33
to come out of that area in engineering and people.
38:37
Just keep their eyes open. They just, they won't take, they
38:40
just don't lie down and take we all the all the persons sort of
38:43
opinion on it. They just question it and they
38:46
push it and that's and it's exactly how it should be.
38:49
Yeah, exactly how it should be. Yeah, you know, we've seen, you
38:51
know, everyone talks about, oh, Gen.
38:52
Z's lazy, you know, they're all lazy.
38:54
They don't want to do this. They don't want to do that.
38:56
Well, you just need to find the right people because there's
38:58
lots of people who want to do things.
38:59
And you saw that yesterday. I did.
39:01
We met The Apprentice of the Year, you know, which beat, you
39:05
know, the likes of people from McLaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley,
39:09
you know, he's working at in a very reputable motorsport
39:12
company and he's loving his job. You know, he's working till I
39:15
think 99-O clock last night on rebuilding that race car.
39:19
He loved it. He couldn't.
39:20
That's the type of thing that we need.
39:21
So we could just need more women in engineering to do the same
39:24
thing so. Well, that's, that's, that's a
39:27
really, really good thing to sort of to wind this down on.
39:32
But before we wind it down, Dunker's podcast has got
39:35
something of a tradition and that is that we always ask you
39:38
off air a question for the next the next person that I talked
39:43
to. And the question that's been
39:45
left for you is that if you could go back to any point in
39:49
your life, would you change anything?
39:51
And if So, what and why? So the answer is yes to that.
39:55
Yeah, I know you haven't pre empted me with this question.
39:59
So yes is the answer. So I would have liked to have
40:02
met my wife earlier so we could have done and had more, you
40:06
know, fun together. Time's very limited, you know,
40:11
on on this planet. So I, you know, I've even I've
40:15
told her that it's no secret. I just would have loved to have
40:18
met her, you know, 5-10 years earlier.
40:21
She may not have been able to put me on the straight and
40:24
narrow, but she's doing flipping good job of it now so I'm.
40:27
Not going to let you not do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:30
So, yeah, so that. Is in the phase I've started so
40:33
often, yeah. Yeah.
40:34
So that's probably the only thing I think I'd, it's not a
40:38
regret. If I could change something,
40:40
that's something I would, absolutely.
40:42
Perfect. Which leads me nicely into
40:45
asking Julian, before we get to the very end of this podcast,
40:50
you were saying off air before we, we actually ran this, that
40:54
it would be great if people understood just how fun running
40:59
and being part of the podcast is.
41:01
I'm, I've got a bit of an uphill here because I'm trying to sell
41:04
people on be honest, open yourself up and let's just chat.
41:09
What do you think? Am I?
41:10
Am I trying to push this water up a hill on this?
41:13
Maybe because it's, I guess it's a bit of the fear of the
41:15
unknown, isn't it? But I think if you put yourself
41:18
in someone like my shoes, I think it's really interesting
41:23
and important because, you know, when I come down here and I'm
41:27
not here all the time, I get, you know, walked down with, you
41:31
know, Sally and other people on the on the street.
41:34
We have a chat on the way down, you know, I have a quick hello
41:37
and a one minute chat, let's say with Andrew, you know, or
41:40
yourself when, when I come down on the beach and then have a
41:43
chat in between swimming or gasping a breath to Tracy or
41:46
Debbie. And then when we're, you know,
41:48
on on the way back and out, it's, you know, Andy's stolen my
41:51
underpants and put my jacket somewhere else that it shouldn't
41:55
be. And then obviously depending on
41:57
whoever I'm walking with down the beach is, I have a 5-10
42:00
minute chat with them now. You know, unfortunately you
42:04
don't get to speak to everybody, which I think is a real shame.
42:06
But you get snippets of people's lives, different stages.
42:10
We sort the world out, we do things.
42:13
What I found is amazing about the podcast is actually getting
42:18
to know people because I'm not here through the podcast, you
42:24
know, so I found that one with Hattie and Emma in really
42:27
interesting. Obviously I know them.
42:28
So it's a bit of a cheat, but certainly, you know, more, you
42:31
know, listening to that podcast, I feel like I know her better
42:34
now listening to that podcast. And I learnt more from Nick
42:39
yesterday, you know, doing the driving in an hour, him chatting
42:43
to the owner of one of the sports car companies.
42:46
And that's been really interesting so that I get to
42:50
know more about him in an hour, being with him talking to
42:54
somebody else than I have in the 2-3 years that I've been dunking
42:57
with him. So I think it's really important
43:00
that people do it. That's.
43:01
Great to hear because The thing is that, you know, if this is
43:04
all about, it's all about getting to know people, as you
43:08
say, just getting to know them. And, and the dunkers have got a
43:11
great community, a super strong community because there's such a
43:16
trust. And you know, if there's one
43:18
thing that you were sort of saying earlier on about, you
43:21
know, if a reflection back on your life is your integrity.
43:25
And I would say the reflection so far for me for five years of
43:30
being involved with the dunkers is the trust.
43:32
And that's the word that I always use that we've got trust
43:35
for each other and, and people just open up.
43:38
So thank you. I'm glad you said that because
43:41
hopefully it will, it will make it a bit easier.
43:43
And I'm pestering somebody to say, oh, come on the dunk
43:46
dunkers podcast. Then they they might be a bit
43:48
more inclined to have a. Go, yeah, they're, they're not
43:51
allowed to use the 1202 error code.
43:54
So yeah, they've definitely got to come and do it.
43:57
If I've done it, they can do it. So Julian, once again, thanks
44:00
very much indeed and may the dunkers spirit go with you.
44:03
Cheers.