Latest / Pittsburgh Sports Memories / Top 10 Most Pitt Losses Ever

Transcript

Top 10 Most Pitt Losses Ever · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Tim Hannon.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Steve Wart.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're gonna do the top ten pit losses ever.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you're if you're a fan of a sports team, there's you all you have to deal with the fact that there's gonna be losses.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um some teams have like bad losses where they get blown out, and you know, disappointing losses where you thought they were gonna win, you know, and then and then of course tragic losses where maybe you know last second miracle play or something to that effect.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I really feel like as a pit fan that Pitt has kind of redefined the category of gut-wrenching losses into its own category, and and they've redefined this multiple times over the years.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and so so Steve, before we start, I mean you and I have been pit fans most of our lives.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, just briefly describe your experience as a pit fan.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been like like I said, like my dad was never a big Steelers fan or like a pro football kind of person.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: He always loved college football.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that was kind of like how it translated to me.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I always kind of liked college football a little bit more than the pros.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot more unpredictable, and the the guys who play it seem to be more passionate.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, it's not all about the money.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um I think we're all pretty like convinced now that you know by this point in our lives, like people are getting paid to do this at the upper level.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like the top 10, 20 teams in college football are all paying their stars, right?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that even debatable at this point?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one thing after another.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been like like you said, like I think Bill Sibbons, who used to work for ESPN, and I don't I think he does a his own podcast now.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like had the like different levels of losses, like the gut punch and you know the minor annoyance and right I remember.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the stub your toe loss.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I just it's very tough being a Pitt fan because college football in general never like very I think they take their fans for granted because they just figure they're gonna show up every year because it's such a tradition and people are so it it's almost like family, you know, and I I don't know.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: They they do a lot of things wrong in college football, and Pitt isn't immune from that and kind of is probably a pretty good like representative of all the problems, like just the way they take advantage of the fall, the fans, not having a for real championship game, voting on things to actual competition, you know, it's not just voting on the Heisman, which is who you know, it's just an award, but they actually vote on who gets to play at the end of the season.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like they used to actually vote on the national champion, and then they finally got it.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we'll vote on the top two teams, and now they got well top four.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, why can't you just have it all?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: It would be so easy to be decided on the field.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and and like there's all those issues with college football.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Pit Pitt definitely, you know, because of the landscape, it's not easy for them to compete.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, so Pitt kind of is what they are, and I and that's fine.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can sort of fans on that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a hundred different, and we're gonna go through.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna see there, there's like you can name like ten other like colleges that are in the exact same boat as Pitt.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I can name five off the top of my head.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Boston College, Syracuse, Miami, um I don't know, Illinois, you know.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I yeah there's a bunch of this.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's and the Power Five conferences are made up, probably most of those schools, and then you know, the real powerhouses.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with Pitt.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I say Georgia Tech, yeah.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just you're you're talking schools that are in a city, not in the middle of nowhere.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's already a pro sports team that kind of sucks up all the oxygen.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's the popular team in each one of those circumstances.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And these colleges, they have their fan base, but they don't, you know, I don't that they're just never gonna be like Penn State or Ohio State.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what else is there to do in Ann Arbor, Columbus, uh nothing against Clemson, South Carolina, or Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: There, there's no pro teams there, they're the big game in town.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Totally agree.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I but I think all those other schools you mentioned, like they okay, so they have the same issues, they have the same kind of up and down, you know, um, years that that Pitt has had.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know that any of them lose games in the fashion, just the historically tragic fashion that Pitt seems to lose games.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and for me, like I there's three there's three sports teams that I like am invested in, you know, that I actively root for and that my heart's really invested in.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the Steelers, Penguins, and Pitt football.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like you know, the Steelers and Penguins have, in the last 15 years, have won multiple championships.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's unusual.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: You don't when you're a sports fan, you don't get that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get multiple championships from two of your favorite teams in that short of a time span.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not a normal thing.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like Pitt has balanced that out.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like the sports gods have like unfairly balanced, like tipped this have to have to tip the scale so far in the other direction to balance that out.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's really what we're talking about here is Pitt just finding the most unimaginable ways to to lose games.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, can you imagine the 70s though, when all all of them, well, even the Penguins, the Penguins didn't win the cup, but they made the playoffs.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: But all three of those teams were really good in the 70s.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, the the sports squads must have been asleep at the wheel during the 70s, but they certainly have been awake since.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so if if if if this concept doesn't make sense, like what what are we talking about when we talk about a pit loss?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first one on our list will do a good job illustrating like the idea here.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so so number 10 on our list is the 2020 game at Boston College.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2020, Pitt is projected to have a pretty good team, lots of veterans coming back.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And due to the COVID reshuffling, their schedule all of a sudden gets a lot harder.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: They have to play Miami, Notre Dame, they have to go to Clemson.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if they want to have any kind of shot of competing in the ACC and making it back to the ACC championship game where they had been in 2018, then they they really can't afford to lose to any of the middle tier teams in the conference.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the season starts off really good.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt goes 3-0 in their first three games.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first time in a long time that they start 3-0.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're ranked in the top 25, but then they they, as Pitt usually does, they have a stumble against NC State and lose that game.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're headed to New England to face another one of those middle-tier ACC teams in Boston College.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they, again, they can't, if if they lose this, then they're really there's no chance of them contending in the in the conference at that point.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the game doesn't go well.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: The pit defense, the pit defense was really the strength of the team in 2020, and they get picked apart by the Boston College passing game, and they find themselves trailing 24 to 21 in the final minutes, but they put together kind of one last gasp drive, they get all the way down to the BC 26 yard line, where they have a third and five.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, Steve, what what's the absolute last thing you want to do in that situation?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you definitely don't want to take a sack, that's for sure.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you want to try to get a first down because you'd you'd rather score a touchdown than win the game, but the absolute worst thing you can do is take a sack and knock yourself out of field goal range.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, that's exactly what quarterback Kenny Pickett does.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: He takes a 15-yard sack, too.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some sometimes you kind of step up in the pocket and it's like a four-yard sack.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is a 15-yard sack.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So now they're way out of field goal range.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: They have to just throw up some kind of prayer Hail Mary on fourth down.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then head coach Pat Arduozi shocks everyone by sending his kicker, Alex Kessman, out onto the field.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Kessman has a really strong leg.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen him kick really long field goals before.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But this is this is 58 yards.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, NFL kickers.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I saw I saw the uh 55 yarder in Heinzfield in the open end in the rain against Sarah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was raining when he did it against Syracuse.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I when I saw the line up for that one, I thought this is impossible.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was over 50 yards in the open end to Heinzfield, which isn't as bad as it used to be since they added more seats.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of calmed the wind down.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it was raining.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he nailed it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: He absolutely nailed it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that's kind of Kessman's bugaboo has always been strong leg, can kick the long ones, but he's inaccurate.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: He does have an act.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like he cost them a game at Notre Dame a couple years ago where he missed three field goals.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: They would have won that game.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: If he just hits two of them.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So so this is yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is 58 yards.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess like Narduzi's thinking, like you said, we've seen him kick long pick goals before.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And plus, it's like fourth and twenty at this point.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what what are you really going to do?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to throw up a prayer.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he probably figures this is this has just as good a chance as of converting a fourth and twenty.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, that's the longest field goal in Heinz field history, college or pro, I'm pretty sure.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: That one against Syracuse.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, yeah, that's pretty impressive.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we know he can do it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: 58 yards is pretty long.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: He comes out and he promptly drills it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: 58-yard field goal to send the game into overtime.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's the longest field goal in school history.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're keeping track, that's 116 seasons of pitch football.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever kicked the ball that far before in a game.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Kesman makes history, game goes into overtime.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: In the top of the overtime frame, Boston College scores a touchdown, so now Pitt has to score a touchdown in their frame to keep the game going.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And twice they're down to their final play.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: They have a fourth and seven and a fourth and one.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: But both of those times uh Pickett converts and he runs on both of them.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then two plays later, he finds Tasir Mack in the end zone.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, what a heroic effort, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Keeping Pitt in contention in the ACC.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: They send the game into overtime, then down to their last play twice, they score a touchdown.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So now Kessman comes out for the extra point and he misses it wide to the right.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is again when we're talking about a tragic loss versus like a in its own category pit loss, like a healthy, functional, well-balanced football team would have lost this game by missing the almost 60-yard kick.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or they would have gone to overtime and and you know been down to their fourth down and not converted.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it would have been like, hey, you know, good effort, came up short, it is what it is.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we lost the game.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: But but that's not Pitt.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how they go down, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're not a healthy functional program.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're a dysfunctional football program that's addicted to tragedy.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so the way they have to lose this game is by making the longest, the same guy that makes the longest field goal in pit history comes out and misses the easiest kick in football, the extra point.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that's a perfect one to start with because it's just exactly what we're talking about, a classic example of a pit loss.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh you know, once again, like I've become a big believer of this the more I've watched college football.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is um if you're the team to go second like in an overtime, in like your offense scores a touchdown and you know you're kicking the extra point for the tie, I think you should go for two more time, like just end it right there.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know the like why your defense isn't gonna your defense obviously stinks, especially like at this point in the game.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've your chance to win it right there, take your shot, you know.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: If if they would have gone for two, they would have had a receiver wide open in the end zone and he would have like dropped it or like called off sides or holding or something.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I can't like even if you the thing with Pitt, it's like even if if you could write a script of like, okay, how can they possibly lose this game?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let's think of like a new way.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can't even think of ways until they go out and do it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So but I agree with that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is only number 10.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I know some of the other ones on the list that I mean, I know what I know one on this list I'm gonna get fired up about because I'm all I I still kind of harbor a grudge about that one.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's move to number nine.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Number nine is definitely one that I will get fired up about because I I remember at the time, this this was a while ago, but I remember I just was throwing things.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the number nine game is the the 2000 season at Syracuse.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's talk about where the program is in the year 2000.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the 1990s were absolutely a miserable time for pitch football.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Walt Harris was hired, he's now in his fourth season, and now you know Walt kind of has like his team, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: His recruits, and they're starting to build something, and they're really poised for a big year.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, they really open the season on fire.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: They win their first four games of the year.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that includes the 12 to nothing win over Penn State at Three River Stadium, which is what probably one of the biggest wins of Walt Harris's tenure.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then they head to the carrier dome to face Syracuse.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Steve, I hate the carrier dome because it it just always seemed like a place where pit teams just have bad luck.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and not just the football team, like basketball or women's lacrosse or whatever.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: It just seems like no matter what, if you send a pit sport athletic team there, things don't go well.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think Jamie Dixon had a lot of success there in his tenure, but that was kind of after this.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, I'll let you finish, but they did, yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I this was part of that point.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at this point, there was a long streak, like you said, going back to the 80s of Pitt just inexplicably losing in the carry.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, granted, like you said, Donovan McMinnab, Marvin Harrison, Dwight Freeney, you know, pretty good players.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to believe how good Syracuse was.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And in the 90s, I mean there's another, yeah, there's another like pit level school.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, they're not in a big city like Pitt, but it's like another school that and they were really good.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: They were a national powerhouse.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: They they were.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: In the 90s, they had they had some really good teams.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Even in the 80s they were, yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but but at this point in in the year 2000, they're they're really just a mediocre team.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the guy who succeeds Donovan McNabb at quarterback is is a kid that's actually from Pittsburgh.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was from Butler.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And his name is Troy Nunes.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he he he kind of has an up and down career at Syracuse.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: He he has some big wins, but then he also is like benched multiple times in his four years at Syracuse.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he's the starter for this game in 2000, which Pitt is favored to win.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt jumps out to a 9-0 lead, but then Syracuse scores the next 17 points before John Terman, who was the pit quarterback that year, hits RJ English for a touchdown and a two-point conversion to tie the game late.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um we're headed to overtime in this one as well.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the the kicking in this game was just abysmal.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nick Watts was the pit kicker.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's already missed a field goal and an extra point, but the Syracuse kicker is even worse.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's missed three field goals, including one, including one that was actually in the final seconds that would have won the game instead of sent it to overtime.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why nobody could kick in a dome that day.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the wind must have been blowing through the air conditioning vents or whatever.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it is the carrier dome.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is the carrier dome.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: So so that that bad kicking continued into the first overtime frame.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Lotz misses a chip shot field goal for Pitt, but then fortunately they're bailed out because the Syracuse kicker misses his field goal in the bottom frame.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so now it goes into a second overtime, and Syracuse has the ball first in this frame.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks to a Pitt sack, the Orange have a third and twenty-three.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so Pitt's in great position, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because we know Syracuse can't make a field goal, and they have third and twenty-three.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so Pitt puts pressure on Noones again on that play because they just sacked in the previous play.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I you almost have to see the replay of this play to believe it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he runs backwards to his right, then he runs backwards some more to his left.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like he he pretty much runs like the length of the field to both sides, and at one point he's all the way on his own 47-yard line.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how far back he runs being cased.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then he kind of runs forward a little bit near the sideline and he just heaves a prayer into the end zone.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's caught by a guy that you may have heard of before.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: His name is David Tyree.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason you've heard of him is because he caught a miracle pass in the Super Bowl uh against the Patriots when they were undefeated when he played for the New York Giants.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so everybody, David Tyree's a hero in New York.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, before he was a hero for the New York Giants, catching a prayer in the Super Bowl, he was catching this ridiculous pass.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt so they score a touchdown on the most absurd, ridiculous play ever.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt has a chance to tie in the bottom of the frame, but Terman's pass to Antonio Bryant falls incomplete on fourth down.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt loses, their undefeated season is over.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Steve, you mentioned the um the blog.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was called Troy Nunes is an absolute magician.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's still around.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: It still covers Syracuse Sports.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I think, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't checked in a while, but yeah, I used to read that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a pretty fun blog.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're not in a Syracuse, yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: In this game, Troy Nunes was an absolute magician.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was just the most ridiculous.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: They used to have another name, like when they first started, they had absolute was uh I don't know how to say it, like uh fornicating magician.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I gotcha.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there was probably a lot of using the fornicating word after this play.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a couple things I remember um like us wanting to burn down the carrier dome at some point.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and uh and two, I remember um Bill Osborne was the radio guy at that time, he was like the color guy, and Sarah and Pitt got a uh penalty on one of their two-point tries or something.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like I forget it was like somebody they said somebody covered up the tight end or something.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those weird procedural ones, and I remember Bill Osborne, like, he must have not had the cough button on, and he was like, How the F do you get that penalty in this in like a five-wide formation?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it literally he literally dropped an F-bomb on the radio.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was uh it was this game was for everybody.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And as a note, I've heard they are thinking of uh ripping down like getting a new stadium for Syracuse.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: If they have the contest to like push the detonator, I'm gonna enter.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're signing up.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm signing up.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's because the dome is the same type that collapsed in the Metro Dome a couple years ago under all the snow.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like they never get, you know, they never get snow in Syracuse all the time from like November to April, you know?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that could be a concern.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so well, our number eight game, 2003 at Toledo.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we said that the 2000 season was kind of the transition from you know the bad the bad team of the nineties to the to the up and coming team of the two thousands.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, two thousand three is supposed to be the transition from you know up and coming to national powerhouse.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: They had the careath cathartic win at Syracuse, actually, I think either the year before, like they put 56 points in the carrier dome.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that was this year.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: They they went up to the carrier dome and scored like 56 points.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the career so that was kind of turned everything.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think after that, Pitts like really had a lot more success in the carrier domes.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they it definitely thank Larry Fitzgerald for that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely in recent years it's been better.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So speaking of Larry Fitzgerald, that year, 2003, Pitts ranked in the top 10, and Fitzgerald is for sure the nation's most electric player.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: He's a Heisman candidate, should have won the Heisman that year.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: We won't get into that argument again, but ridiculous.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know Jason White was really good.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Yeah, I mean look at look at all the success he had afterwards.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean he's definitely, yeah, I mean, the Hall of Fame is just the Canton is just waiting on Jason White for sure.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, after after 20 plus years of you know, basically mediocrity for Pitt, um, you know, this this is gonna be the year, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you remember thinking that, Pitt Steve?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the year that Pitt's really going to?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think mediocrity's being a little generous from at least for the 10 years in the nineties.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean mediocrity was like a step up from absolute you know human excrement, you know, that that was uh that they were in the nineties.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they're at respectability now.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: This was like going for national providence.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Pitt, like like a lot of major conference teams, they have set up some easy non conference opponents for their first few games just to to warm up.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: You usually start with Those kind of uh, you know, teams that aren't that great.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh in the third week of the season, they're scheduled to play at Toledo.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Toledo's a Mac school, and up to this point, Pitts 21-0 all-time against the Mac.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's gonna change in the next few years.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, Toledo apparently never gets the message that there's supposed to be an automatic win.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Toledo has a quarterback named Bruce Gradkowski, who is also from Pittsburgh, like Troy Nunes, and uh and actually later plays for the Steelers.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: He he threads Pitts defense for a score record 461 yards.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Pitts' offense was so good that year that they still have the lead for the bulk of the game, and they have multiple chances to put the game away in the fourth quarter.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: They lead by 10 and have the ball in Toledo territory, but quarterback Rod Rutherford throws a bad interception.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Toledo then drives 98 yards for a touchdown.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a drive that includes multiple third and fourth down conversions to pull within three.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt again has the chance to put the game away, but they can't convert a third and two.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Toledo gets the ball back at their own 17-yard line and again drives all the way down the field.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Gradkowski hits Lance Moore in the corner of the end zone for a nine-yard touchdown pass over Shante Spencer, the pit cornerback, with 45 seconds left.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And just like that, the number nine team in the country has lost to Toledo.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember before that game, they had somebody from Toledo, like a Toledo alum, or I don't know, the guy was the radio guy, and he said, you know, not a lot of people go to Toledo, because that game was in Toledo, which was odd too, because Pitt used to never go on the road to Mac schools.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: They always came here.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: But Pitt Toledo didn't lose a lot of games at home back then.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: They were pretty good.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I forget who their coach was, but he he actually was there a long time even after that win.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there were he got involved in some scandal and they had to fire him.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I I don't know what to tell you.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it it was kind of like I guess that was the beginning of like these Mac schools starting to like beat teams, because I think they I mean I haven't looked against a ra even against Big Ten opponents, I bet they they've had a lot more success since what was this, 2003, 2002?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know that they've beaten uh somebody as high ranked as high as number nine.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, Pitt was up for the challenge, I guess.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it just it just that that season just kind of went south after that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I don't what was 2003?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, didn't they beat Virginia Tech later in that season?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: They did.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: They did, but they lost to Miami, they lost to Notre Dame.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it just it just wasn't the season that you thought it it was going to be.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because that was supposed to be the uh the farewell tour of Miami and Virginia Tech.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh big east, and that was like why Pitt really needed to be good so that they could, you know, kind of say, you know, well, we're fine without you, you know.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so one one one more note for this game.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I was the game wasn't on TV, I was listening to it on the radio.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, it was televised.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't televised.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like really just ticked off.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my girlfriend at the time, uh, I don't know, she was like after the game, she was trying to talk to me, and I was just being rude and short with her, and you know, and and then we ended up getting into a big fight because I was just being a jerk and a baby because I was upset about the game.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I I remember that, and fortunately she still married me, and we're still married today.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we overcame, but yeah, I just remember I was so mad and I just was like pouting.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, you know.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh don't know.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry about that.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wish I could say I was any better.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had the moments of sports.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I could say I was better today than I was back then.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're gonna stay with the Mac for our number seven game.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's the 2005 game at Ohio.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so 2005, Pitt has a new head coach by the name of Dave Wansted.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, lots of excitement that year because Pitt had played in a BCS bowl the year before, and then they brought in Wanstead, who was a Pitt guy.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he he was from Pittsburgh, went to Pitt, coached at Pitt.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: He brought so much passion to the program.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the first game of the season is a home game against Notre Dame.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's nationally televised.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um Keith Jackson is there to call the game for ABC, and Pitt loses pretty handily.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So tough way to start the Dave Wanstead regime, but okay, you know, that was a tough opening game, Notre Dame.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, they like we said before, they usually don't have a tough opening game, they usually have like these warm-up games.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that the warm-up game was going to be the second game of the season where they went to Ohio.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and in Ohio, there was lots of optimism there too.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: They also had a new coach, Frank Solich, who um had been at Nebraska.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and Ohio, they hadn't been on national television since 1969.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this game was on ESPN.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually ends up being among the top 15 most viewed college football games ever on ESPN 2.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and their stadium, Peaton Stadium, it was this largest crowd ever, almost 25,000 people for that game uh to watch Ohio versus Pitt.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh two of those people in attendance, Steve and I, we made the dubious decision to drive all the way to Athens for this game.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and if you've ever been to Athens, Ohio, it's it's a great college town.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And man, the people there couldn't have been nicer to us.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we had shirts on, and yeah.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was just super nice and welcoming and cordial.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and I remember Steve and I were like, man, I feel bad we're gonna blow this team out.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're just they're so excited and they're so nice.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and then the way the game started, uh Pitt returns the opening kickoff for a touchdown.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was Larod Stevens howling.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like a 90-something yard return, too.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of felt like, oh, they're off.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this this one's gonna be over in a hurry.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think even the people like sitting next to us was like, okay, well, you guys are gonna win, obviously.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but we're just excited because it's on ESPN, and you know, they were just kind of happy to be there.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh then things don't the things start getting you know a little little dicey.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um Ohio gets a pick six in the first half off of Tyler Pauco as the pick quarterback.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then they also kicked a field goal, and they actually lead 10-7 for almost the whole rest of the game.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um the Pitt offense, well, the Ohio offense couldn't do anything.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that they just couldn't move the ball at all.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But Pitt's offense was even worse, and at least the Ohio offense didn't have a pick six.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, both quarterbacks throw for under 120 yards.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just terrible.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Under 120 yards passing.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: In the final minutes, Pitt finally puts together a drive.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they get it inside the Ohio 10-yard line, but they can't score a touchdown, so they have to settle for a field goal.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think you're, you know, I I know, Steve, I was thinking at this point, okay, bad game, but now the offense is finally clicking, and they'll pull it out in overtime because Ohio's offense isn't doing anything.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And on his first passive overtime, Palka is picked off by Dion Byrum, who was the same guy that had picked him off for the touchdown in the first half.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he runs untouched 80 yards down the field for the game-winning touchdown.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the the fans like stormed the field.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't remember if you and I just sat in our seats as everybody just stormed the field or if we I think we tried to get like beat it out of there before like you know, people like started getting too crazy.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was just unbelievable.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like Pittsburgh.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Del Sardo, that was the receiver I remember because he didn't play much after that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was the intended receiver on that play.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, because I remember like he didn't play much after that.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're kind of like yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought much of Joe Del Sardo.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I'm taller and faster than you, that's I don't know why you're playing college football.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: He he was like the um uh who was the guy.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: He used to call him Rudy.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, because he was so short.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: He was just like so short.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he he was like almost like a Ryan Switzer kind of player.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're like, why Ryan Switzer was like tall compared to that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was very uh Lerod Stevens Howling might even be taller than than him.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I maybe not, I don't know.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Leron Stevens Howling was short, but he was really fast.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: He was a good athlete.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he he he would actually be physic like for like I always felt like Del Sardo was afraid to hit like didn't want to get like hit or anything like Howling's would definitely get it, you know.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: What he had, he he would give you everything.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: You always felt like he gave you everything you had.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I never I don't know.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Del Sardo, I just never had much confidence in him.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we never got to find out because the ball never got to him, and it was picked off.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean the the just to lose a game to a Mac school where you didn't give up an offensive touchdown the whole game.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it just that was that was a tough one to swallow, and to lose it on a pick six in overtime.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Ohio wasn't even good that year.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like like Toledo when when Toledo won in 2003, they actually were a good Mac team.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ohio finishes that year four and seven.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not even good in the Mac.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that one just hurt, and I think you and I being there are just like, wow.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it makes it stick out.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it's to Frank Solich's credit, like he was good at Nebraska and they ran him out of town, and they really haven't been successful since he left.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of that four and seven season, he's won the Mac a couple of times, and every year they get like eight wins, six to eight wins in the Mac.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's done a really good job there for sure.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: But but but this was kind of like this was his first year, yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have your own recruits yet, all that kind of stuff.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he definitely was a good coach and did good things for the program.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: But at this point, I mean Pitt should have won that game.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it shouldn't have even you score like one touchdown and you win, you know.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean if they just would have got up by even like four points, Ohio probably would have had no answer.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take it a step further.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: If they return the opening kickoff for a touchdown and then just kneel every series of punt, then they win the game.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not kidding.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like they would have.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So nice.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Number six on the list is the 1975 game versus Penn State.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um we talked about this game in this era.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um we did an episode about Johnny Majors, and in 1975, Pitts really starting to build something special.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: They they at this um the game against Penn State's the last game of the season, and at this point they have a seven to three record, they're ranked in the top 20, and Penn State's Penn State is ranked number 10.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: So this is just, you know, for the first time in a while, Pitt Penn State is a really huge game.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitt had just upset number nine Notre Dame the week before.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I mean they're really turning a lot of heads.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this is this is this is a team to be reckoned with now.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: The game's being played at Three River Stadium instead of at Pitt Stadium, and it's on national television, you know, which again this is pre-the days of cable, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So to be on TV, to be on national TV was a big deal.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt, Pitt, Penn State, right now, at this point, Penn State had won the previous nine meetings, and they'd won it by a combined score of 387 to 129, because again, Pitt just stunk before this.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But now, like, this is going to be the year that okay, now Pitt's really gonna compete with Penn State.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: The game ends up being a defensive battle.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt gets the only score of the first half on a long touchdown run by Elliott Walker, the running back.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitt Pitt has a kicker uh by the name of Carson Long.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, Carson Long is the best kicker in the history of the program.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's actually later drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the NFL.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's super accurate on field goals and he's automatic on extra points.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: He has a streak, actually, of 60 consecutive extra points made over the three years he's been at Pitt.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: But after that uh Elliott Walker touchdown run, his extra point is blocked.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens is the Penn State defensive back like leaps over the center and like he times the he times the snap perfectly and just leaps over him and blocks it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can't do that today.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: They've they've made that illegal um in college football.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it's illegal in the pros too, but it's definitely illegal in college football.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time you could do that, and that's what happens.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: He blocks the extra point.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt still has a six to nothing lead into the fourth quarter.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now Penn State finally mounts a drive.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: They also score on a long run and they make the extra point.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Steven mentioned in our Johnny Majors episode that their kicker was Chris Barr, who is a professional soccer player, which yeah, still don't understand how that was possible, but whatever.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So he makes the extra point.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now it's seven to six Penn State.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Pitt finally, after after the whole day of just being stymied on offense, Pitt kind finally kind of figures out the Penn State defense.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they in the fourth quarter, they put together three long, solid offensive drives, and none of those get into the end zone, but all three get into field goal range.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And again, they have the best kicker in school history.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: But Carson Long misses all three field goals, including one with three seconds left that would have won the game.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those kicks, I believe the second of those kicks, was literally the length of an extra point, may have even been shorter.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was a chip shot.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt loses to Penn State in a huge game.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Penn State goes to the Sugar Bowl to face Bear Bryant in Alabama, and Pitt is left going to the Sun Bowl to play Kansas.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, had had Pitt won this game, which they should have, um, you know, that that turns out differently.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And people, you know, people were really trying to figure out what what the heck happened with the kicker that day.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was married at the time, um, and his wife had a baby that morning.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so people were like, oh, well, he had a he had a baby, he had a kid that morning, so his mind must have been distracted.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: But Long says years later, it was actually the guy leaping over the line to block that extra point.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: He uh he said, quote, for the rest of the game I was looking for that guy, that's what happened.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess that's that's what got into his head.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just just a totally again, totally unreal way to lose a football game.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: You miss three field goals with the most accurate kicker you've ever had in your biggest rivalry game.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, uh kicking's definitely gonna, you know, we mentioned kicking in in previous uh previous losses in this episode.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well it'll come up again.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh long unfortunately gets like a bunch of go kill yourself mail.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is before the days when you could just you know threaten people people's lives online.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: You had to actually like mail them a letter.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that's unfortunate.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but it kind of has a happy ending for Carson Long because Pitt does win the national championship the following year, and long is a key part of that team.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Good for him.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, they they he that is weird.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did he miss like three?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I guess good for Penn State getting in his head like that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know what the defense for that for a guy jumping over the center was.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I guess maybe that's why they there is really no.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is there a way to stop that?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, you I mean you can try to stop it with the snap count.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the whole thing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like you it has to be it has to be timed perfectly because you're you're you're doing it before the center like stands up.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's the only way you can you can perfect that.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if if you can work the snap count so that you know you cat you can't time it, that's the only way to stop it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it was a safety thing though.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: It got to be a safety thing and they outlawed it, but they didn't outlaw it till like I want to say like 2017 or something.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just a couple years ago because I think that happened in the 2020 season or this season as we're recording it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember against wasn't it against Dallas, they said Dallas did that or something like that.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, in the NFL, yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like they they got away with it.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if like they just you know, I don't know.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well well again, I don't I don't I don't know exactly what the role was in the pros.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just know in in college is they definitely made it illegal.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it's kicking kicking in college is such a crapshoot.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even the good teams normally don't have that great of a kicker.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, especially back then, and that this kid was a straight-on kicker, he wasn't like a soccer style style kicker, you know, but but again, at the time he he made everything.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like he didn't miss kicks.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um it is a crapshoot, but Carson Long was was very, very accurate.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you know, in the biggest game of of I mean that was the biggest game in decades.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, when they were playing Penn State when they were ranked number nine, uh, up to that point.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and and again, National TV, they actually have the game at Three Rivers, uh, which was a big deal to move the game there, and and then he misses three field goals in the fourth quarter.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: It just again, Pitt finding new ways to lose tragically.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the number five game is the 2002 game versus Texas AM.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: This one was at Hines Field, it was the second game of the season.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Texas AM is a pretty good team that year.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're ranked number 20.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Pitt has a good team that year, too.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: They actually will eventually be ranked as high as number 17.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but it uh in this game, um, the Aggies have Pitt's number early.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: They go up 14 to nothing in the second half.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the this quarterback at this point for Pitt is Rod Rutherford.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: He he's the new starter that year, and he's really struggling.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the student section actually starts chanting.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: We want Palco.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Tyler Palco was, I think he was red shirting at the time, um, but they were chanting for him.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Rutherford, you know, he he hears that, but he kind of overcomes it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: He and he leads Pitt on a touchdown drive, you know, to cut the score in half.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens next is just bizarre.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So Walt Harris was the pit coach, and he'd been using this formation on kick attempts called the swinging gate.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Steve, I don't know, can you describe this formation?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you remember this?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was at the game, and I was too.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was at this game.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually, this happened on I wasn't in my regular seats.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, because I I think we're on the goal line, we're in different seats.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: But so what happens is like all the offensive line and everybody kind of lines up on the one side of the center with the ball and the holder and the kicker just kind of standing in the middle of the field, and they start to do a count.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And like if the defense doesn't like go over there with them, I guess they just run a play where they throw the ball, they run into the end zone or something.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: But eventually everybody moves over to where the ball is, and it's like a traditional kick, and that's why it's called the swinging gate, because everybody just kind of all moves in motion.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I think the problem was was somebody had a wrong jersey number.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually what the problem was.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I remember I remember when it happened.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I guess you haven't said the second time, right?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because this actually happened twice.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's let's yeah, let's talk about what happened first.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, like the play, like you said, I mean the goal of that is like it's supposed to confuse them or something.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I it doesn't seem to have much of an advantage.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I guess when you actually go for two, it'll be like, oh, whoa, they went for two this time, yeah.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's supposed to catch them off guard.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, like the defense might be like, well, what's this formation?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh where do I stand?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like like a defensive team that's not well prepared might not know where to line up.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden you have like some guy totally uncovered, and you could just get an easy two-point conversion.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually watched a high school coach on YouTube describe this, and he said, He loves, I love it.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I use it all the time.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, um, you know, because again, sometimes teams just get confused, and they said, even if even if they're well coached, he said, well, then they have to prepare for it all week.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, like, okay, maybe in high school, but like Division I college football, you're not gonna, you're probably not gonna, you're not gonna catch Texas AM, the number 20 team in the country.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just I will say this might be the only time it'll be effective because like Texas AM is an out of confidence.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: A team that Pitt doesn't play every year.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I could see like a team like I don't know, like Syracuse or like But they watch film.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like yeah, but but Pitt did this all the time.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the triple, it's like the triple option.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't play against it, it's not the same as like you can watch it on film all you want, but you have to actually practice like it's the same on offense and defense with the triple option.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: You actually have to practice it to really get a feel for it.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think once you played against it once one year, the the player, like if you continue playing that offense every year, you're very prepared for it.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I I guess.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I just to me it's like coaches coaches in football, college pro, they they just they they uh like they outthink themselves sometimes.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: And here you're down fourteen to nothing.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just kick the extra point.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I never liked that they used to do this.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: It looked dumb.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: They did it every single extra point, and they never once ran any kind of trick play out of it.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: They just did it to be like, oh, what are we doing?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're going over here, we're going over there.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: You'll never know.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: You at least won't jump over our center like you did in 1975.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so what happens, so so yeah, so you were referencing this earlier.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens is they run this and the refs flag them for an illegal shift penalty and move them five yards back.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're five yards back, and Pitt stubbornly just decides to do it again, and then they get flagged again.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they have to get called for an illegal shift twice.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: They have to move the extra point way back, and then they miss the extra point.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, it's a weird thing because like I remember the officials, like the first time I really wasn't paying that attention.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the flag going, and then they did it again, and I remember the official was on our side, because once again we're on the goal line.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: He walked over to the head official, the white, the guy in the white hat, that's the head official, and like talked to him for like a minute, and then after a minute of talking, he threw the flag.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if he was like, Well, what the hell?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is the it's the same issue, or if he was like, F this, I'm getting paid the you know, screw pit over.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because he was the same guy that called the running back in for a touchdown.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm pretty sure it was that same game.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: So well, and it was a Pac-12 crew.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was one of the things that was brought up afterwards.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a Pac-12 crew, but then I mean, it's again uh Harris.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they they asked Harris after the game, and he's beside himself.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, We've been doing that all year.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: We did that all last year, we did that in the first game this year, and he, you know, they they asked him, like, what was the explanation from the officials, and he said he was so flustered he doesn't even remember.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um Harris also kind of throws his special teams under the bus by saying that he actually because they they were like, Why did you run it twice?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, I called it off the second time, but they ran it anyway.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that I thought that was kind of a clear uh yeah, control, like call a timeout then.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like I I think what it was was somebody was wearing the raw, like a number.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was so it was so like deep procedural.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even like where the guy was standing, it was like because he was wearing a certain number or something like that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just yeah, it was a dumb rule.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like like to get caught, you caught called on at once, fine.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Call timeout and put somebody else there or change his jersey, you know.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or just line up and kick the the extra point.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and don't don't run a fancy swinging gate formation.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it ends up being the difference in the game.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because Pitt scores what should be the tying touchdown in the final minutes, but because they missed the the PAT on the first one, now they have to go for two and they don't and they don't get it.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, again, more like more new ways to lose a football game.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: We lost a football game on the on the swinging gate formation.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was infamous.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I should have like started to turn heads that maybe Walt Harris wasn't the greatest coach in the world either.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean he was a really good offensive coordinator, though.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: He was that, so he was, and he recruited some really good players.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, uh the one footnote for this game, uh, there was an unknown backup freshman receiver that um had a really good game.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: He catches 10 passes for 103 yards in this game.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: And people are like, oh, who's that guy, Steve?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: You remember his name?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Larry Fitzgerald, yeah.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: He had a really uh really pretty good game that that day.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, the next year he did even better.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: He smoked Texas AM, like, oh my gosh.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: They put two guys on him and they couldn't cover him.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: They played playing them in Kyle.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where is it?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Were they at uh they were at Texas AM.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: College Station, yeah.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he makes like a diving, you could probably go still find that play on YouTube because he makes like a diving, super diving catch in the end zone uh against Texas AM the next year.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, he ends up being pretty good.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not as good as Jason White, but you know, pretty good.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: So number four on our list.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Another fun fact is Bruce Karkowski has played way more in the NFL than Jason White ever did.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good point.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Put that in your pipe and smoke it, I guess.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh poor Jason White.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh number four on our list is the 2014 uh game versus Houston and the Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is the game.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is the one.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna break I'm a there's gonna be a certain coach that's really not gonna like this.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: I hope he listens.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this this game, so this is the only bowl game on our list.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um 2014, Pitt has a six six and six season.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it's it's definitely an up and down season.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple of games that from that season that could have made this list.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's the Duke game where where Chris Bluett misses like a very much kip-shot field goal to win the game.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that was again like extra point length.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's the Georgia Tech homecoming game where Pitt fumbles four times in the first six in their first six plays to go down twenty-eight-nothing in the first six minutes of the game.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was I don't think you'll ever see that again.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Down 28-0 six minutes into the game because of fumbles.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Pitt Pitt kind of overcomes that.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: They they fight hard, they qualify for a bowl game.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's the third year for head coach Paul Christ, but um he gets an offer from Wisconsin, where he, you know, that's kind of his dream job.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: So he leaves uh on December 17th, and Pitt's playing in this game under an interim head coach, Joe Rudolph.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Pitt's up for the challenge, and they're they're blowing out Houston.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they're leading by 25 points with 11 minutes left in the game.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And just for some reference, 25 points.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: So 25 points with 11 minutes left.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: 25 points is the lead that the Atlanta Falcons famously blew.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, famously blew in the Super Bowl to the Patriots.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was late in the third quarter, okay?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and everybody remembers, oh my gosh, how could you blow a 25-point lead late in the third quarter?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt's up by 25 with 11 minutes left in the game.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Houston scores a touchdown, but Pitt does get some of the points back with a field goal.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's 34 to 13 with three minutes and 45 seconds left in the game.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to repeat that for a fact.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt is up 34 to 13.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a 21-point lead with under four minutes left to go in regulation.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Houston scores a touchdown.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Fine, you know, garbage time touchdown, who cares?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: So now they have to do an onside kick.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: An onside kick is a play that has probably about a 10 to 15% success probability.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just really hard to recover an onside kick.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Houston recovers it.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: And now they drive and they score another touchdown.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: So now they're only down by seven, but again, you still have to you have to do onside kicks, so they have to do another onside kick.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if the odds are 10 to 15% of recovering one onside kick, I I don't know what the odds are.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine they're pretty uh low of recovering two onside kicks in a row.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's almost impossible.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: But that's exactly what Easton does.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: They recover the second onside kick, they drive 57 yards in four plays, and not only score the touchdown, but because they've they've come this far, they decide we're gonna go for two to win the game, and they get that two.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt Pitt actually has time for one final possession.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like amazingly, they score all three of these touchdowns and leave.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um they almost get into field goal range, but Tyler Boyd, who is the school's all-time leading receiver, drops a pass and the game ends.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Houston 35, Pitt 34.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a historic loss.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's the biggest blown lead ever in a bowl game that's decided in regulation.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just, again, that's just point margin.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't imagine what the stats are for you know being up 21 with under four minutes left.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt loses a game where they're up 21 with under four minutes left in the game.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's just astounding.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right, all right.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can I have the floor or your honor?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Please vent.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, here's the problem with all of this is it's classic Pitt because we have to change coaches every two years.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's part of the problem, is you changed coaches, and Joe Rudolph does not care.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the biggest problem with Joe Rudolph, and that's the thing that still irritates me to this day.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know why Houston recovered those two on tight kicks?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know why?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: We were because Pitt on the first one, you okay, maybe you got caught off guard.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: They put defensive linemen, defensive lineman, Juan Price, who's really good at sacking the quarterback, but not a good if he was good at catching passes, he'd be a tight end, not a defensive lineman.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he he misses, he boffs he you know, muffs the first onside kick.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you are caught, that's fine.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know the next one's coming.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Put out so they put him out there again and he does it again.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just why?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then after the game, Joe Rudolph, who did this, who made this coaching decision, goes and blames the players.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Says, well, I hope the players learn something.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Joe, did you learn how to coach?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because now you're going to Wisconsin with your buddy Chris, and and he's still a coach at Wisconsin, never took any responsibility for that game.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: I realize you're on your way out the door, stick it to pit, have fun.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's great, but but you're a jerk.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're a jerk.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you totally stuck it to a college player that I don't think WonPra ever had much of a NFL career.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: They thought maybe he would.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it irritated me to know, and like it's one thing to to lose and and lose like this, and this is a really bad pit loss, but to literally lose because your coach just does not give a crap is so checked out that yeah, we're gonna let a defensive lineman play play uh on the onside kick hands team.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who does that?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who does like like how is it why are you still a coach?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I hope I hope he I hope he gets a head coaching job somewhere someday because I would love this.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that team never wins a game.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I like Paul Chris, and I think Paul Chris is a good coach.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think Joe well, Joe Rudolph was what, his offensive coordinator or something weird like that, or I don't know what he was on his staff, but that was just the biggest jerk move to throw player college players that aren't even pro look because you put them in a position to fail.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just literally put a pos a person in a position to fail.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that I that just that's what irritated me about this game more than anything.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not taking any responsibility for it.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what what do you have to lose?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Be a stand-up guy.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I missed the I blew a call, you know, you're on your way out the door.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like Pitt can fire you.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, that's what makes it even more like you know, just sleazy is like you could have totally been a stand-up guy and said, I screwed up, I I the first time was you know, we got caught, but the second time was inexcusable, I just didn't communicate in time, whatever it was.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just to to to not take any responsibility, what a what a jerk.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: What an absolute jerk.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: So so like what are your real feelings about the game?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's just it was the cherry on top of a Sunday.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: That that game was so frustrating.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: The defense couldn't stop anything.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe they should they should have made a play on defense somewhere along the line, but just it was unbelievable watching it unfold.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like a train wreck in slow motion.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the only thing I remember about that game is I had I had the flu.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like sitting on the couch, like feverish, like a box of tissues.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I just was like, it was like a fog watching that game.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: I could not believe it.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and their defense was really bad, like for year.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, their defense still isn't great, but it's gotten better since then.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of like one of the things, like I will say Narduzie had to fix because like Pick kind of like I think that whole season they had like that hiccups, like in the fourth quarter, they would give up big leads, and he kind of, and that is the one thing like I will give Narduzzi credit.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: He did kind of like change at least that part of the pit culture.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: So well, num number three on the list is another game that Steve's definitely gonna get fired up for because he was there, and uh we've talked about this one in in some previous episodes as well.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's the 1994 game versus West Virginia at Pitt Stadium.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we we talked about Pitt being bad in the 90s.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's I don't know if you can really describe how truly awful Pitt was during that that Johnny Major second stint era in the 90s.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you wanted to sum it up in one play, it's it's the David Boston punt return against Ohio State, where Ohio State's winning the game 65 to nothing, and they punt the ball to David Boston, and Ohio State, because they're just up 65-0 and they're not really even paying attention, they only put like seven guys on the field.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally, they have like seven guys, seven or eight guys on the field for the punt return, and David Boston still returns the punt all the way.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think if you wanted to sum up that error in one play.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think I think, yeah, I think uh Pitthead was on the uh power play there.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you know, it's a short-handed punt return.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have massively short-handed punt return.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh on October 15th, 1994, Pitts 1 and 5.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Again, they stink.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: West Virginia's coming to Pitt Stadium.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, West Virginia's not really that great.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: West Virginia was kind of between eras.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: They were really good in the in the late 80s with Major Harris, and then they had some really good teams in the late 90s and early 2000s.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: But at this point, you know, they're they're they're middle of the road, big East team.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, they're still better than Pitt because you know, everybody was still better than Pitt.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in the 1994 Pitt team had had really two things going for it.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, it's Curtis Martin's senior year.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: So even if they're bad, it's like, okay, Curtis Martin, you know, he's he's gonna be a star.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he gets hurt in the second game of the season, and that's the end of his year.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's out the window.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the the only other thing it had going for it was the WVU game, the backyard brawl, because no matter how bad Pitt was, winning that game would just make the whole season worthwhile.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, they're not playing Penn State anymore at this point.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the big game.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it starts out as a typical pit blowout.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: So many of the games in that era were just out of control um point differentials.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's 31-6 West Virginia.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: But then it uh it turns into arguably the single craziest game in the history of the backyard brawl.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: There are three blocked field goals in this game, two of which are returned for touchdowns, one for each team.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when do you ever see that?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's a blocked punt, there's a pick six, there's a fumble return for a touchdown, there's a 100-yard interception return of a two-point conversion attempt.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was kind of the point of the game when that happened.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because that put yeah, that put West Virginia up by like 28, or that was early in the like second quarter or something.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's about a thousand yards of total offense from both teams.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Ruben Brown for Pitt.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: He punches a guy for West Virginia.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um he got benched the whole series for that.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did he?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: Before he learned his lesson.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt comes all the way back to tie the game at 33.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so it's tied at 33.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's a minute and a half left in the game, and West Virginia wide receiver Rashawn Vanterpol gets behind the pit defense for an 81-yard touchdown reception.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: So just a classic pit way to lose such a big game.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you come all the way back to tie it, and then you surrender an 81-yard bomb in the final 90 seconds.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: But again, that's no, no, no.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not pit enough way to lose a game, right?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just give up an 81-yard bomb.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, that's not that's not enough.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: So John Ryan is the pit quarterback, and my goodness, I mean, that kid, you know, he just he just wasn't very good at quarterback.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just leave it at that.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's well, John Ryan could do he could do one thing.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: He couldn't throw the short pass, he couldn't throw the medium pass, he couldn't throw over the middle or to the sidelines.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: He was like Rex Grossman.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: When it came to chucking a deep, he was your man.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you could just drop him back there, and he had like um, they had who uh Billy Davis.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or what no, it was Billy West.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Billy West is the running back.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Billy Davis was the receiver, yeah.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he had him, and then he had Billy West, who was a pretty good running back.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you could kind of set it up, and that's kind of I think how it went down is like West Virginia had to really stop the run, so that left the guy, and that's what Ryan was good at.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just drop back because he threw a couple interceptions where he did that, he just heaved it deep and they would pick it off, but it was like, oh, it's on third down anyway, and you know, it's like a punt.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, John Ryan wasn't very good, but man, he that day and he beat uh Beasley, the quarterback for uh cornerback for West Virginia, who played in the pros for like nine years.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this is like his this is his moment, right?
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is his once-in-a-lifetime moment, and he heroically leads Pitt all the way down the field.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, there's only 90 seconds left in the game, all the way down the field, throws a touchdown pass with 30 seconds left to force overtime uh if they can make the extra point.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: But hang on a second, Majors gets bold, he says, you know what, this game's crazy, forget overtime.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna we're gonna try to win the game right here.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he makes a really gutsy decision to go for two.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the play call is uh like a RPO by Ryan, who is not a running quarterback, and he converts it.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: He fakes the handoff and he keeps it himself and he converts.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitts done it, they've come all the way back to tie the game, and then even after WVU scored the touchdown, they scored a touchdown and they went for two to win.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: But there's still 30 seconds left, okay?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe enough time for West Virginia to get into field goal range.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, we talked before about all the blocked field goals.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: You weren't really worried about them getting into field goal range.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like that it's not a good kicking game.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you just had to keep them out of the end zone with 30 seconds left.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: All they really could do was with some kind of a prayer pass.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Steve, you want to describe it from here because you know Well, I've described it before, yeah.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: The Norris Mosley, who I really liked, was the pick corner.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: I actually remember that because I was watching him on the play, and for some reason, as who is the is the name you haven't written down here, that Zach Abraham runs to the sideline, and for some reason Morris Mosley get like bites on a fake or something, and he kind of stumbles, and Abraham just like is wide open running down the field at like the 20-yard line of pit.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I looked back at the quarterback for West Virginia and thought, well, maybe he didn't see him.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, his arm was like already like in motion, like you know, throwing the ball, and so it's like I'm seeing the future before it happened.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I'm literally like one second ahead, like the ball's in the air, drop it, drop it, drop it, and the guy's like wide open.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing you can hope for.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: He just catches the ball and calmly walks into the end zone.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's it.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that was a gut puncher on that one.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was that's probably outside of like the AMC championship game in like 2004.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta say, that's one of the most or Sid Slid.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's like definitely top three.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, two thousand well, that's on this list too, that other game.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's my top five all-time worst.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, besides the Penguins, you know, Cup, Dark One Cup.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's definitely, yeah.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's it's bad.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's real bad.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um 60 yard pass in the final seconds.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think just because I saw it happen before it happened, yeah.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was like I I could see the future.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, uh oh.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and like uh how do you how can you leave a guy wide open in that situation?
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, aren't you playing way, way back?
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he was he was on him, and then for some reason they ran he the guy like kind of ran like a I don't even know what the guy was running.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: He just kind of like made a move to the sideline, he like stumbled and fell.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: So here's what happened.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: Here's so the quarterback for West Virginia was Chad Johnston.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: The play before that, he had scrambled.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: To to get them to the 40 yard line, he scrambled and he ran out of bounds.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so in in this on this play, he starts scrambling and he starts running forward before he threw that pass.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Mosley maybe thought, oh, he's gonna.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Run and that's where he kind of likes hesitated.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I wasn't watching the quarterback.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was watching Mosley the whole.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually what that's why I saw it happen, because I was watching the guy who would catch the the whole time.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't watching the ball.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: But but even then, how did you have like a one-on-one?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: Again, again, I mean, like they you had to guard against them getting into field goal range, but it would have been so much better had they lost the game on a field goal because that happens.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: 30 seconds left, and maybe they get enough plays to get into long field goal range.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like to give up a 60-yard bomb.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've told this story before.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I was sitting at the parking lot of the place where the fast food restaurant where I worked at the time I was in high school, and listening to it on the on the crackling radio.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: I could barely hear it.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: And after they after they um kicked off, and I think I listened to like one play, and they were like, oh, there's you know 24 seconds left or whatever, and West Virginia has a ball out there on 20.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, it's over.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to work and I came home eight hours later and was talking to my brother and my dad about, oh man, what a game.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe Pit won.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, what are you talking about?
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I I had those eight hours of bliss where I thought that Pitt had won the game until I found out what actually happened.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Number two on the list.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: 2019.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't last forever.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it did not last long.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh number two on the list, 2019 at Penn State.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have to take a deep breath for this one.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: So after a 16-year, 16-year hiatus, uh, Pitt and Penn State start playing each other again for a four-year series.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt wins in 2016.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: We did an episode about that.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: 2016 Pitt team.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: Penn State wins in 2017 and 2018.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: So 2019 is going to be the last Pit Penn State game, possibly forever.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Penn State claims this the schedule's just too tight for them to add Pitt, but meanwhile, they're they're out there inking deals to play Temple in Delaware.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean It is funny this year, like what?
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't Coastal Carolina and BYU schedule a game in like three days?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like five years out, that's not enough.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then like this year, it's like two teams are like on Wednesday, they're like, hey, can you play?
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Little League.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can you play on Saturday?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're good.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Our field's available.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like there's we could do a whole hour-long discussion of the history of arrogance with Penn State football.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: Arrogance so high that it sadly led to a bunch of kids getting abused and nobody doing anything about it.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: But that's for another day.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's talk about this 2019 game.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Penn State's ranked number 13 in the country.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're obviously heavy favorites to beat Pitt at home.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: They had actually destroyed Pitt at Heinz Field the previous season.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, it's a rivalry game.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: Anything can happen, and sure enough, it's a really hard-fought, close game.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's 10-10 at halftime.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Penn State gets a touchdown in the third quarter, they take a 17-10 lead.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it stays that way into the fourth quarter when uh Kenny Pickett, the pit quarterback, leads the Panthers on a 10-play, 65-yard drive.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the key play of that drive is a sideline pass to Seer Mac, the receiver, who makes just an unbelievable leaping catch at the one-yard line.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a it's just an amazing catch.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: So now Pitt has first and goal.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even at the one.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like inside.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: They actually spot the ball inside the one-yard line.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there's only five minutes left in the game.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt's all set to tie things up at 17.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, on first down, they run a play action pass, no one's open, Pickett throws it away.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: On second down, uh Pickett runs a run pass option and he gets stuffed.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's third down, they run another pass play, uh, but no one blocks the Penn State lineman, and Pickett almost gets sacked, but again is forced to throw the ball away.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: So three plays at the half yard line, they can't get any anywhere.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's down to fourth down.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, okay, Pitts down by seven.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's only five minutes left.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they if you have to score a touchdown.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this this goes back to, again, the whole theme of this episode, right?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Going back to like a functional, healthy sports team would lose the game by getting stuffed here on all four plays.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that would that would suck.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: That would be awful.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're gonna be able to do that.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not sending out your defensive lineman twice, not running, yeah, not running the swinging gate twice, not having your like kicker that can kick 60-yard field goals in the rain at Heinz Field, miss an extra point.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it and and this like that happens, right?
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, you know, I know they had the ball at the one-yard line, but goal line stands happen.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes teams just defenses just make make a stand at the one-yard line.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So again, a healthy team gets stuffed on all four plays.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens here is that head coach and math wizard Pat Narduzzi sends out his kicker.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I if this is too dramatic of a statement, Steve, stop me.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the it's to me, it's the single worst coaching call in the history of Pittsburgh Sports.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wasn't as bothered by this at the time.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm just getting older and I have a little different perspective on life sometimes.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: As you get older, things, you know, change.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't have it because how much you said there were five minutes.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they got a chance to get the ball back.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: But now I'm looking to this and I've been thinking this because I've been reading the notes ahead.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know, and I've been thinking that I've been thinking about, well, I didn't have a problem because I thought they'd get the ball back again, right?
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: But either way, you're gonna have to score a touchdown.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're really close, so like you're gonna be way farther away.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like it would be easier to kick the field goal.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think this is he got confused.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, all I can say is like when you're down ten points, kicking the field goal is the right call.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't screw around, don't use up all your time, you know, kick the field goal.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where when you're down by seven, it's a little different.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_00: You probably because even it let's say you don't get it, well I guess you know, they're still stuck in their own end and you can still make a play and get the ball back to decent field position.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So Well if you're down ten, I I think if you're down ten and you kick the field goal from the inch yard line, I think even then people would still be like, What are you doing?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is like you have to score a touchdown and a field goal.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is your best chance to score a touchdown.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: But you make the other team I think it makes the other team keep playing.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like whereas if up there, the game's over.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's stuff here, the game's not over.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you're down by if you're down by two scores, then you have a you can at least make an argument, is what I'm saying.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: When you're down by seven, yeah.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're still gonna have to score a touchdown.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you weren't down by six and you kick the field goal, you say, well, okay, well, maybe you know what I mean?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It would make more sense, you know?
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to make it even more embarrassing, they missed the field goal.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about Alex Kessman having a real problem with super easy kicks.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: But but but that's it, yeah, that didn't even really matter.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because miss the kick, make the kick, you still had to score a touchdown.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, either way, yeah.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitt loses.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: They they did they did get the ball back, and but they didn't get anywhere near as close as the one-yard line, and they had to throw up like a prayer in the end zone on the last play, and it was incomplete.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Arduozi, like his explanation, and then then, of course, you know, they asked him about it after the game, and his explanation just defies logic.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, quote, you need two scores to win the football game unless you're playing for overtime.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't question that decision at all.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then he also talked about like armchair quarterbacks and oh, it's always easy to second guess people after the fact.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just I found that super insulting.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you need two scores to yeah, you need two scores to win the football game, but you need to live one score to tie the football game.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's a touchdown.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's seven points.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_01: It it was just uh after this, I I just I generally generally like Narduzzi, but I I'll never trust him again.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know if I can ever trust him again after that game.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was so unbelievable that he kicked the field goal there.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm still floored by that decision.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess I should have been more bothered by that, but I'm still not as bothered as I was.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and it was it was against Penn State.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was the last Penn State, like that might be the last time we ever see a pit Penn State game in our lifetime.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And for him to do that in that game, I think that I think that just added to the to the frustration.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and then for him to be all like, oh, you know, I armchair quarterbacks, should have done this, should have done that.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, it's it's you know, like you talked before, Steve, about coaches not taking responsibility.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I anyway, I I can't say anything else about that game.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just vomit inducing.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like like when you think about it, it's like well, I guess if you're playing for the win, but like how much better of a you know, closer you're gonna get to make that play, like you're still down to where you know you're gonna have to score a touchdown either way.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I I don't know.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what to tell you on that one, except it's classic, uh, classic uh Pat Narduzi, I guess.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, well, that brings us to the number one game on the list.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is the 2009 game versus Cincinnati.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the two the 2009 team is gonna be Dave Wansted's crowning achievement.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Wansted, we've mentioned before, he's a pit alum, he's a he's a former pit player and an assistant coach.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when he came back, you know, he had he had spent years in the NFL.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And his goal was come back to my hometown, my school, and take this program to the next level.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he promises to make recruiting of local guys a priority.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that had really been something that Walt Harris hadn't done.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: He he recruited a lot of good players from places like Florida, but um, you know, that's why you saw Troy Noes and Brad Grad, Bruce Gradkowski and all these guys from Pittsburgh come back and beat Pitt in games.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So 2009 is Harris's, or I'm sorry, is once its fifth season.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And by this time, he's really built a winner.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're still playing in the Big East at this point, and the Big East is not a very good conference, but you know, they're lucky because they still have the spot in the BCS.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Pitt has a solid offense that year.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Their quarterback is senior Bill Stahl, who was really had a really solid year that year.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they have Big East offensive player of the year, Deion Lewis, at running back.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Deion Lewis was a great player for Pitt.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's yeah, it's hard to believe how good he was.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_00: You forget how good he was.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he's still playing in the NFL years later.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they also have a budding superstar receiver named Jonathan Baldwin, who actually later ends up being a first-round draft pick in the NFL, albeit a not a very good one, but um was really good that year.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then on defense, um, they had the the big East co-defensive players of the year, Mick Williams and Greg Romeo.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's a great pit team.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_01: They go 9-1 to start the season.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Their only loss was against uh Russell Wilson at NC State.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why isn't that game on the list?
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was in it was in contention.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's another, I think that was a 17-point comeback against Russell.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that he led like a second half 17-point comeback or something like that.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that one was in contention, didn't didn't quite make the list.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, nine and one.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're ranked number eight in the country.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_01: That ninth win was against Notre Dame and Hinesfield.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it sets up an interesting scenario because Pitt now has two games left.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_01: They play at Morgantown and then at home and then home against Cincinnati.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cincinnati that year is undefeated under Brian Kelly.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, we mentioned Pitt's only loss was NC State.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: That was out of conference.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the the way the way that the standings are, if Pitt beats Cincinnati in that finale, in that season finale, then Pitt wins the Big East and goes to the Sugar Bowl.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um that that was weird because it kind of rendered the the WVU WVU game meaningless.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitt loses that game on a last-second field goal, but it didn't really matter because I think everybody was just thinking ahead to next week against Cincinnati because that was really the only game that mattered.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the Big East didn't have a championship game.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like they didn't have a formal championship game like a lot of the conferences do now.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this was the de facto Big East championship game because whoever won that game was going to win the Big East.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's the single biggest game for Pitt since the Dan Marino era.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree with that, Steve?
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in terms of like in terms of what's what was at stake.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of some of those Penn State games in the 70s and 80s.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm saying since since the Dan Marino.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, yeah, really.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's that blowout game where Penn State blew out that Dan Marino team, and that really probably is the most, yeah, consequential game.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and probably even since 2009.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say they haven't played in a game like it since now.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's the yeah, it's the single biggest game for Pitt in basically 40 years.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and the game's a shootout.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Lewis rushes for 194 yards, three touchdowns on 47 carries.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I I did not remember that he had 47 carries in that game.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that because I thought they should run the tie.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember Joe Bendel, who used to be on there, I don't know what happened to him, like complaining about that after the game, and I was like, they're not going to play a game for a month.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like run them till the wheels fall off.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and he was very effective.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had an awesome game.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_00: He was unstoppable.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_00: The offense wasn't the problem in this game.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_00: They really weren't.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and for once, for once in pit history, the offense really wasn't the issue.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, and and Cincinnati's offense is really good.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Also, uh, Tony Pike was their quarterback.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_01: He throws for over 300 yards and three touchdowns.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt jumps out to a 31 to 10 lead in the second quarter.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was at this game.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Were you at this game, Steve?
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I just remember thinking, wow, 31 to 10.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've we're actually gonna we're actually gonna win this and win the conference.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then right before halftime, they kick off to Cincinnati, and the guy returns at 99 yards for a touchdown, and that really swung the momentum.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was the turning point of the game.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that that uh Gileard touchdown return?
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was Marty Gileard.
• 1:21:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, that's good memory.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I did not remember the guy's name.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think too.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I Tony Pike and Marty Gil really like it's like when you look at that Cincinnati team, I'm not sure.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think no, that was I'm trying to think who their defensive coordinator was.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think their coordinator was Narduzzi at that point.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think him and D'Antonio, yeah, him and D'Antonio had left by that point.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So Well, Cincinnati ultimately comes back to tie the game at 38 with about five minutes left.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, uh what a what a what a terrible loss.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt's gonna blow a 21-point lead in the conference championship games, in the in the conference championship game for the Big East.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's how a normal team would would maybe lose a game like this.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_01: But Pitt doesn't roll that way as we've seen in these previous uh items in this list.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the game's tied, stall leads Pitt on a nine play, 67-yard drive, and with 96 seconds left in the game, Lewis takes it in for the go-ahead touchdown, and Heinfield just erupted.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it erupted.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um that was that was that was you know, they go ahead for the touchdown.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, the best part of that drive was the Big East was trying to stick it to Pitt again, and that was the infamous, oh, there's no face mask on.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like they literally pulled on Dion Face, uh, Lewis's face mask so bad in that drive.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you his helmet, he got off his helmet was sideways, and they picked up the flag.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Was a complete joke.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's great.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh Lewis, I I mean, again, great moment at Heinz Field.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Lewis comes off the field and and Tony Dorsets there on the sideline and gives him a hug.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, just like I just I remember feeling like again, all these years of being a pit fan, and this is gonna be like our our big moment as be of being pit fans.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was so big that they scored a touchdown on that drive instead of kicking a field goal because there's still a minute and a half left on the clock, and and you knew the way the game had been going.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know Cincinnati was still gonna have a chance to drive down the field, but you score a touchdown, so the worst that they can do is send the game in overtime, right?
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then with Dion Lowe's the way he was running, you just thought we had a really good chance in overtime.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then Pitt bought just the extra point, and it's not even a miss, because again, missing the extra point would be you know, that wouldn't be on a level high enough for for Pitt.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, what happens, it's a perfect snap, but the holder is a kid named Andrew Jinoko.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_01: He and he just he the ball just slips out of his hands, like he catches the ball on the snap, he's going to put it down, and it just slips out of his hands, and they don't even get the kick off.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they get tackled.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So now Pitt's only up by six instead of seven.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure enough, Cincinnati drives down the field, and they score a touchdown in the final 30 seconds, and they make the extra point, and they are the Biggies champions.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how they lose because the ball slipped through his hands.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't even slip through his hands.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_01: He caught it, and then he was putting it down on the ground.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_00: He just laid it flat, yeah.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And little Jinoko was like a big, I guess he was like his dad is a high school coach at Clearfield, and he was like a high school, like uh a fairly good high school quarterback who really didn't like belong at pit like talent-wise, like he was lucky to just be a backup.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, quite honestly, he should have gone to like a Duquesne or Robert Morris.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was more his like talent.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like he really wasn't even like I don't even know if he could have made it like a Youngstown state, you know.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he was just obviously, I think he was doing this just to put on a resume.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was on like a big time program, you know what I mean?
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he's gonna go back to Clearfield and be a high school coach until he's 102, you know, just following his father's footsteps, and then all this silliness happened.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's still a coach somewhere.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I know he was at Rutgers and a couple other places for a while, so yeah, and I I feel bad for him.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was just but it's just such a classic yeah, has a pit way to lose.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, Pitt, if they win this game, they play against Tim Tebow and Florida in the Sugar Bowl.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I doubt, you know, Pitt would have I I mean, I don't know what Pitt would have done in that game, but it m that would have just been the high point of the last 40 years of pitch football.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_01: They win the Big East, they play in the Sugar Bowl against Tim Tebow, who at the time and maybe even still is maybe the most celebrated college football player ever, and and that program was so celebrated, and you know, they drop an extra point and they blow it.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's one of the worst.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_00: That that was that was bad.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was ugly.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's number one.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's just again, it's it's pit.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's just you can't just lose.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like Cincinnati Cincinnati was a really good team.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_01: They were undefeated, right?
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's a if it's a shootout and they just get the ball last and they win, fine.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think Cincinnati got blown out in the sugar bowl, too, I think.
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Brian Kelly had left by that point for Notre Dame, so I mean that that almost wasn't even a real thing because Brian Kelly had left.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_01: But regardless, I mean again, just you couldn't just lose normally, right?
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_01: You you couldn't send the game into overtime and you lose in overtime.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't just it just has to be something.
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be something unbelievable, something you could never even script if you were writing a movie.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that, folks, is a pit loss, and that's our list.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's our list.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anything we left out that even goes.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, just a couple honorable mentions, like uh when we lost to Youngstown State in a game that wasn't even close, 31 to 17, literally getting dominated by Youngstown State.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that was in uh uh there was a home loss to Akron.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was in 2014.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that too, because like we got dominated like like Akron.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know, they couldn't run the ball at Akron with uh that was a Paul Christ loss.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So then uh bowling green, that was after like the one of the like one stat comes in with all this momentum after the big 13-9 and then follows that up by losing the bowling green at home.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of these losses happened at home.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the kind of sad part.
• 1:27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't there a really bad loss to Connecticut one year?
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was uh Aaron, no, DJ Hernandez.
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Hernandez's oh yeah, the quarterback, yeah, cousin or brother.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was his brother, yeah.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they they came back, that was another like Russell Wilson like game where they came back and uh I'm and they went for two.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_00: They did what I said where they Randy Etzel, who was just a total pain, because he would fly to pool West Virginia, he would come in and get like the players that weren't quite recruited by Pitt, and he would go and get those guys.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they weren't like all that great, they were okay college players, but it would seem like every time they played against Pitt, they would have like a chip on their shoulder, so they would play like above like what they were really like their talent level was, and that was kind of like another thing that would happen with Yukon, and uh they ended up losing, they ended up losing on a two-point conversion by DJ Hernandez.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So he outran Scott McKillop.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I just never thought much of Scott.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Scott McKillop couldn't stop DJ Hernandez.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I we could probably um when I first started making this list, I I think I had like 20 games on the list, and I just kind of tried to whittle it down a little bit.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt Pitt has supplied a lot of good candidates for this list over the years.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they will continue to supply good candidates for this list.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_01: We love Pitt, we're still huge Pitt fans, but I think it's therapeutic sometimes to just talk through these losses because they're just so so unbelievably gut-wrenching.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Steve, any last thoughts?
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I I I don't know what to say about Pitt except for uh they're tough to watch sometimes, and they definitely don't take it seriously, that's for sure.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, everybody.
• 1:29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh please check out check us out on the web uh or Twitter or Facebook.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_01: All those links are in the show description, and we'll please subscribe and leave us a comment if you feel like to do so.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's all.
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can help people find the show.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thanks for listening.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.