Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Texas church killer started with torturing animals & Filthy rich investor sued for luring women on Instagram, assaulting in “dungeon”

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Texas church killer started with torturing animals & Filthy rich investor sued for luring women on Instagram, assaulting in “dungeon” · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one.
0:09
Speaker 1: Thirty two residents living in this small Texas town stunt
0:13
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what's described as a Sunday
0:15
Speaker 1: service massacre. Who was dressed in all black. The suspect
0:18
Speaker 1: cross the street to the church, to his vehicle and
0:21
Speaker 1: began firing at the church. It was rapid fire. Year
0:26
Speaker 1: old Devon Patrick Kelly open fire inside Sutherland Springs First
0:30
Speaker 1: Baptist Church. A local resident grabbed his raffle and engaged
0:33
Speaker 1: that suspect. He was killed after fleeing the scene. I
0:36
Speaker 1: never thought it would happen here. I mean, this is
0:38
Speaker 1: something that takes place in a big city. Doesn't make
0:41
Speaker 1: any sense. A devastating blow in this close knit community. Really,
0:44
Speaker 1: from what's being called the country's deadliest shooting inside a
0:47
Speaker 1: house of worship, all of America is praying to God
0:51
Speaker 1: to help the wounded and the families of the victims.
0:54
Speaker 1: We will never ever leave their side ever. Twenty six
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Speaker 1: dead here on American soil and in a house of
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Speaker 1: worship at eleven a m on a Sunday morning. It's
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Speaker 1: known around the world that that is when US churches
1:14
Speaker 1: are open for worship and almost every Christian denomination. I'm
1:20
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
1:23
Speaker 1: with us, and now we are learning so much about
1:28
Speaker 1: the shooter. How did children and eight months pregnant mom
1:32
Speaker 1: of four? How did they die? Why did this happen?
1:37
Speaker 1: Joining me investigative reporter Art Harris, Emmy Award winning reporter
1:42
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, crime scene expert in director of the Cold
1:45
Speaker 1: Case Institute, doctor Chloe Carmichael, psychologist out of New York,
1:50
Speaker 1: creator of Anxiety tools dot com. And private investigator Bobby
1:56
Speaker 1: Brown based in the same town where the shoot lived,
2:00
Speaker 1: and he has been digging deep into the shooter's life
2:04
Speaker 1: to find out why and how. First of all, straight
2:08
Speaker 1: to Bobby Brown, Bobby, what have we learned about this
2:13
Speaker 1: shooter that goes into this beautiful little house of worship
2:18
Speaker 1: in a small Texas town, walks toward the altar right
2:22
Speaker 1: down the center aisle, then turns around faces the congregation,
2:27
Speaker 1: looks them in the faces as he guns them down, women, children,
2:31
Speaker 1: men alike. Straight out to Bobby Brown. Private investigator, Bobby,
2:36
Speaker 1: what have you learned about the shooters past? For instance
2:40
Speaker 1: a police report you found I have UH the report
2:44
Speaker 1: from UH an incident that actually occurred on August thirteenth
2:49
Speaker 1: of two thousand and fourteen, and it was a cruelty
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Speaker 1: to animals complaint UM. The one important thing is that
2:57
Speaker 1: when the the police, the Fountain Police, got to UH
3:02
Speaker 1: the mobile home motor home that UH Patrick Devon Patrick
3:07
Speaker 1: Kelly was living in UH, he refused to come out
3:10
Speaker 1: for almost an hour, and then when he did come out,
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Speaker 1: he was confronted about how he had brutally assaulted his
3:18
Speaker 1: dog as was witnessed by a number of people. Let
3:21
Speaker 1: me just kind of chase Bobby. What did he do
3:23
Speaker 1: to the dog? He literally she was strangling the dog
3:28
Speaker 1: and was on top of the dog and punching him
3:31
Speaker 1: several times in the head, and the dog was whining
3:35
Speaker 1: and was just cowling. And then he drugged the dog
3:39
Speaker 1: back to his motor home. When he was confronted by
3:43
Speaker 1: law enforcement, he passed it off by saying that he
3:47
Speaker 1: was teaching the dog not to run away again. My dog. Okay,
3:51
Speaker 1: wait wait, wait right there with me as private investigator
3:53
Speaker 1: at the Colorado Springs, Bobby Brown, this is where the
3:56
Speaker 1: shooter lived for some time. Bobby has been diging into
4:00
Speaker 1: the Life of Devin Patrick Kelly before I go to
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum and aren't Harris Dr Chloe Carmichael's psychologists at
4:08
Speaker 1: a New York creator of Anxiety tools dot com. Dr Chloe,
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Speaker 1: you know I've studied many, many and prosecuted serial killers
4:17
Speaker 1: and spree killers, and aren't you're with me through many
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Speaker 1: of those investigations covering them, Chloe? When you show rage
4:25
Speaker 1: or violence or just cruelty to animals, I mean when
4:28
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown said that, my it chills down my arms
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Speaker 1: because that is a text book sign of someone that
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Speaker 1: will erupt into spree or serial killing in the future.
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like a given. That's one of
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Speaker 1: the first things you look for is have they tortured animals?
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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, Yes, Nancy, I agree, that's a that's just
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Speaker 1: a heartbreaking story. Um. And what's what's really awful about
4:54
Speaker 1: it too, is it it doesn't sound as much like, um,
4:57
Speaker 1: he's psychotic, you know. It's it doesn't sound as if,
5:00
Speaker 1: you know, he thought the dog was out to get
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Speaker 1: him or something. Even by his own description, he was
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Speaker 1: using a really cruel form of torture in order to
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Speaker 1: control the dog and to try to you know, dominate
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Speaker 1: the dog to stop the dog, you know, from just
5:16
Speaker 1: running away, which of course I'm sure the dog would
5:18
Speaker 1: want to run away. Um, if this is how he
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Speaker 1: treats it, you know, to Cheryl McCullum, Cold Case Institute Director, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a classic sign of a serial
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Speaker 1: killer or spray killer. And I'm not just cooking that
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Speaker 1: up and my iron pot on the stove. Okay, this
5:35
Speaker 1: is documented over and over and over again, Cheryl. Fancy,
5:41
Speaker 1: it's right up there. You've got the cruel being animals.
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Speaker 1: You've got your domestic violence, you've got your falt targets
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Speaker 1: like children, you've got failure in the military. He is
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Speaker 1: right out of the playbook, There's no question about it.
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Speaker 1: But I think one thing that needs to be pointed
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Speaker 1: out here. Unlike a lot of potentials here old killers
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Speaker 1: that just grab animals from wherever, all of his targets
6:05
Speaker 1: have been selected. None of them were at random. Every
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Speaker 1: one of them is somebody that he was connected to,
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Speaker 1: or an animal he was connected to that we know
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Speaker 1: so far, explained Cheryl McCullum. It was his dog, it
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Speaker 1: was his child, it was his wife, it was his
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Speaker 1: in law's church, anybody that does him wrong that he's
6:26
Speaker 1: connected to, he will seek revente Well, Cheryl, I mean
6:30
Speaker 1: this is just off the top of my head, so
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Speaker 1: there may be more. But animal abuse I have always
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Speaker 1: known is one of the first signs of a serial
6:39
Speaker 1: or spree killer. And for instance, I mean, I'm not
6:44
Speaker 1: even don't have to look at these up. You've got
6:45
Speaker 1: David Berkowitt, son of Sam uh So, You've got Carol
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Speaker 1: Cole who killed almost utt people. Um, Jeffrey Dahmer had
6:56
Speaker 1: animal cruelty in his background, the Boston strang angler, you know,
7:01
Speaker 1: Albert Salvo. I mean, all of them started with cruelty
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Speaker 1: to animals. Mass Killers start by harming or torturing pets
7:10
Speaker 1: and then they go to you know, like a troubled team.
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Speaker 1: He starts killing pets, are torturing them, and then the
7:19
Speaker 1: next thing it's their wife, and the next thing it's
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Speaker 1: their baby. You know, it's not pulling a cat's tail
7:25
Speaker 1: or trying to ride your dog around the front yard.
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Speaker 1: That that's not it. It's not that it's torturing them.
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Speaker 1: Just like Bobby Brown is telling us, do you I mean,
7:35
Speaker 1: I can recall the case Luke Woodham, he went to
7:38
Speaker 1: Pearl High School. Do you remember him? He stabbed his
7:41
Speaker 1: mom to death and then he um opened when a
7:44
Speaker 1: hail of bullets on classmates, then a hunting knife, killing
7:47
Speaker 1: two little girls. Well we all we found out he
7:50
Speaker 1: had tortured and killed his pet dog, Sparkle, and he
7:53
Speaker 1: described his dog murder as his quote first kill. Um.
8:00
Speaker 1: I remember about Kip Kinkel. He shot his parents to death,
8:04
Speaker 1: then unleashed on Thurston High School. He had bragged forever
8:08
Speaker 1: about how he tortured animals. And I told you Jeff Dahmer,
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Speaker 1: the Boston Stranger, the son of Sam. It goes on
8:15
Speaker 1: and on and on. This is classic. Should call umn
8:19
Speaker 1: It is so classic. But here's the difference in this person.
8:23
Speaker 1: Dahmer carries around this dead squirrel that he just got
8:26
Speaker 1: from the woods. This guy is connected to his own animal.
8:30
Speaker 1: He's more of a revenge killer of people he knows
8:34
Speaker 1: or is connected to. That's what's kind of unusual about him.
8:38
Speaker 1: That that is that is unusual to Art Harris Emmy
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Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter Art Way in Nansie. The animal
8:48
Speaker 1: cruelty is so in line also with domestic violence, and
8:52
Speaker 1: in this case, before he slaughtered twenty six people in
8:54
Speaker 1: that small church. He had to beat his wife and
8:57
Speaker 1: child and been convicted in a court martial. In two
9:01
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, when he was serving in the Air Force
9:04
Speaker 1: in New Mexico, he got a bad conduct discharge, served
9:08
Speaker 1: a year in the brig or confinement, and suddenly he's
9:12
Speaker 1: out as a wife beater and abuser and he is
9:16
Speaker 1: able to buy a gun. How did that happen? That
9:19
Speaker 1: is the travesty here. The Air Force now admits it
9:22
Speaker 1: failed to enter his domestic violence conviction into the civil system,
9:28
Speaker 1: meaning it's not in the National Information Data Crime base
9:32
Speaker 1: that the FBI uses. When you go into a gun
9:35
Speaker 1: store and fill out a form that the gun seller
9:39
Speaker 1: has to run through that system, and if you have
9:42
Speaker 1: been adjudicated mentally ill or if you've been convicted of
9:46
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor domestic violence or a felon or dishonorable discharge,
9:50
Speaker 1: you are rejected. Well, he went into a store, he
9:53
Speaker 1: was able to buy four guns in Colorado. He brought
9:56
Speaker 1: to and in Texas in two thousand sixteen, where he
10:00
Speaker 1: bought this Ruger, a R fifteen style assault weapon Nancy.
10:03
Speaker 1: He filled out the background check, my sources say and
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Speaker 1: it's sailed right through because number one, he did not
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Speaker 1: have a dishonorable discharge but a bad conduct discharge, so
10:13
Speaker 1: he could say that he was not discharged that way
10:17
Speaker 1: from the military, but they never saw his background as
10:22
Speaker 1: a wife beater. Uh. And he was able to buy
10:25
Speaker 1: that gun. So here we are with a guy walking
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Speaker 1: around who has all these convictions as a felon, as
10:32
Speaker 1: a bully. Uh, and he is just got a passport
10:38
Speaker 1: to kill. Now. Cheryl McCullum, crime scene expert, I want
10:41
Speaker 1: to follow up on what on what Art Harris is reporting.
10:44
Speaker 1: You know how many times, Cheryl, have you walked by
10:48
Speaker 1: my courtroom and I was prosecuting and just be slumped
10:50
Speaker 1: over sitting there, not in front of the jury. Of
10:52
Speaker 1: course I'd wait till they left, but I would be
10:55
Speaker 1: thinking what it could have should have If a judge
10:58
Speaker 1: had if the pardoner parole hadn't let this guy out
11:00
Speaker 1: on parole, if he hadn't gotten a light sentence to
11:03
Speaker 1: start with, if this victim had gone to police in
11:06
Speaker 1: n blah blah blah, then this wouldn't have happened. This
11:09
Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened. If if, if, if, if, would have
11:11
Speaker 1: could have should you know what, I could say that
11:13
Speaker 1: right now, Ryl again chills on my arms thinking of
11:16
Speaker 1: all those cases when I would analyze it to just
11:18
Speaker 1: bits until my head was about to blow up. How
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Speaker 1: this could have been stopped? Art correctly is pointing out
11:26
Speaker 1: that the military did not enter his criminal problems in
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Speaker 1: the computer or in the database, and therefore he bought
11:35
Speaker 1: a gun. Would have, could have should have. This guy
11:38
Speaker 1: was a powder kig waiting to blow Ryl. He would
11:41
Speaker 1: have done it no matter what. He would have done
11:44
Speaker 1: it no matter what, and he would have done it
11:45
Speaker 1: by any means necessary. There's been some reports that he
11:48
Speaker 1: had explosives in the car Nancy. He fractured that child
11:52
Speaker 1: go without a gun. He beat his wife without a gun.
11:55
Speaker 1: He had the knowledge to put together sometimes it explosed
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Speaker 1: to the one it. I mean, that's an easy Google
12:01
Speaker 1: search for any idiot that wanted to do that. This
12:04
Speaker 1: person has been on sy drugs since the six or
12:06
Speaker 1: ninth grade, and some reports you're saying he's been a problem.
12:10
Speaker 1: How ful friends were fleeing from him on Facebook and
12:13
Speaker 1: every other way they could um. If he hadn't the
12:17
Speaker 1: bought a gun, he would have stolen one. He's not
12:20
Speaker 1: gonna stop if that's his intention. I mean, Cheryl, I
12:23
Speaker 1: almost feel like recoon down crying right now. Gosh, when
12:27
Speaker 1: I think about these children, that pregnant lady and the
12:31
Speaker 1: mother of four. I mean, Cheryl, you already know I
12:35
Speaker 1: get up at five o'clock in the morning every morning
12:38
Speaker 1: to get everything ready for twins. That's two children, all right,
12:42
Speaker 1: for them to get to school on time and blah
12:44
Speaker 1: blah blah, and take care of them. She had four
12:46
Speaker 1: children and pregnant. I just I just oh, And I'm thinking,
12:51
Speaker 1: how could this have been stopped if only they had
12:54
Speaker 1: put this in the database. But you know what, You're right, Cheryl,
12:58
Speaker 1: it was going to up and come hell or high water.
13:02
Speaker 1: He was gonna do this thing. Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologist,
13:06
Speaker 1: creator Anxiety tools dot Com. R Chloe, why do I
13:10
Speaker 1: look for somebody to blame? It would be so easy
13:12
Speaker 1: to blame the air Force or the military. Right now,
13:15
Speaker 1: it's not their fault he did this thing. It just
13:17
Speaker 1: makes me feel better to say they did it. It's
13:19
Speaker 1: their fault that we can fix this? Is that what
13:22
Speaker 1: it is. I want to fix it. So in order
13:24
Speaker 1: to fix it, you have to find who to blame. First,
13:26
Speaker 1: why does it feel so much better to be able
13:27
Speaker 1: to blame somebody because it's nobody it's Devin Patrick Kelly's fault,
13:31
Speaker 1: nobody else's exactly exactly, Nancy. Of course, we always do
13:36
Speaker 1: try to search for somebody that we can blame for
13:39
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. First of all, it gives us
13:41
Speaker 1: a target for our anger, and exactly as you said,
13:45
Speaker 1: it also gives us the idea that somebody, you know,
13:49
Speaker 1: can be corrected so that this won't happen again, if
13:52
Speaker 1: only they had changed their process or something like that.
13:55
Speaker 1: That so we can think that we're more protected against
13:58
Speaker 1: this in the future. I want to go back to
14:00
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, private investigator who has been investigating into Devin
14:04
Speaker 1: Patrick Kelly's background. Bobby, you have uncovered this, this police
14:10
Speaker 1: report where he was just beating a dog, punching it
14:12
Speaker 1: in the face. And at first I thought, well, maybe
14:15
Speaker 1: the dog attacks somebody, Maybe the dog did this. No,
14:18
Speaker 1: he told police because the dog ran away. That's why
14:23
Speaker 1: he was punching at the dog, whimpering, and and you
14:26
Speaker 1: know the other day, what did the dog do? The
14:30
Speaker 1: dog growled, Our little mutt growled. He's he's eight inches tall,
14:34
Speaker 1: he's a mini He's always says he's supposed to be
14:36
Speaker 1: a mini Docs and but he's so not. He's a mutt.
14:39
Speaker 1: Growled at Lucy, and I'm like, you are not growling
14:42
Speaker 1: at Lucy. And you know those cinnamon cheryl Do you
14:45
Speaker 1: know those cinnamon brooms they sell in front of the
14:47
Speaker 1: grocery store. It's like twenty twigs coated and cinnamon to
14:51
Speaker 1: put together, look like a broom, and you're supposed to
14:53
Speaker 1: put it and make it smelling. So I took the
14:55
Speaker 1: twenty twigs and I chased the dog out with the broom.
14:59
Speaker 1: All right. He got outside and he lowered his little
15:02
Speaker 1: rear in. He looked so pisful, like you thought I
15:03
Speaker 1: was going to hit him, And of course I broke
15:05
Speaker 1: down and started crying. I'm like, fat boy, and Mommy's
15:07
Speaker 1: not gonna spank you. Just don't grow at Lucy. I
15:10
Speaker 1: felt so bad. All right, Bobby Brown, this guy is
15:14
Speaker 1: punching the dog in the face, with the dog crying
15:18
Speaker 1: and whining. Bobby, what more have you learned about this guy? Uh?
15:23
Speaker 1: There's been, you know, so much talk about the weapons
15:25
Speaker 1: and that he did purchase two weapons in Colorado. And
15:29
Speaker 1: I will find out some time later today. But there's
15:32
Speaker 1: a very good possibility that I have found out where
15:35
Speaker 1: he did purchase uh possibly uh the A R fifteen
15:40
Speaker 1: and that uh, that may have been right here in
15:43
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs. Um. But it's important to say though that
15:50
Speaker 1: everybody is you know, they want to blame the air
15:52
Speaker 1: Force right now. But had he not had two weapons, Uh,
15:56
Speaker 1: he could have had a pressure cooker, he could have
15:58
Speaker 1: there's anything. He was absolutely determined that. That's what Sheryl
16:05
Speaker 1: and I were just talking about, that he did all
16:08
Speaker 1: these other things without weapons. Um, guys, it would not
16:12
Speaker 1: be right for me to go forward without thinking our
16:14
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16:18
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Speaker 1: our investigation possible. Thank you Legal Zoom with me. Aren't Harris,
18:15
Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, Cheryl McCullum, Director of the
18:18
Speaker 1: Cold Case Institute. Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist, creator
18:23
Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot Com, and private eye Bobby Brown.
18:27
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, what more have you learned? I think it's
18:30
Speaker 1: important that we touched on the the fact that they
18:34
Speaker 1: say that, you know, he was mentally ill, but you know,
18:37
Speaker 1: as a former homicide investigator, I can tell you that
18:40
Speaker 1: he was showing my thought he getting his planning of
18:44
Speaker 1: the shooting. You know, he he he thought about getting
18:46
Speaker 1: bulletproof vest and uh, you know, so obviously he wanted
18:50
Speaker 1: to make sure that he was protected in that wigh.
18:52
Speaker 1: And I think that it would be really important to
18:55
Speaker 1: see in the autopsy, you know what type of h
18:58
Speaker 1: drugs was he taken, what what is was in his system?
19:01
Speaker 1: And uh, you know what drove all of this anger
19:04
Speaker 1: and why did he come to Colorado? And I hope
19:09
Speaker 1: to have all of that even by the end of today.
19:12
Speaker 1: And I think the biggest thing that I will have
19:14
Speaker 1: is uh the purchase of at least one of the
19:18
Speaker 1: weapons that I'm relatively positive happened right here, and call
19:22
Speaker 1: out to investigative reporter Art Harris, Art, I want to
19:25
Speaker 1: follow up on what Bobby Brown was telling us about
19:28
Speaker 1: him purchasing a bullet proof zest. It didn't help him
19:33
Speaker 1: in the end, Art Harris, What do you know, Nancy?
19:35
Speaker 1: This was one of the many things he had on
19:37
Speaker 1: and he was armed for war, the former Air Force
19:41
Speaker 1: veteran dishonorably or bad conduct discharge for beating his wife.
19:45
Speaker 1: He had body armor, He had all black tactical gear.
19:50
Speaker 1: He had this a R fifteen style weapon with extra
19:54
Speaker 1: magazines and other guns possibly explosives in his car. He
19:57
Speaker 1: was in a showdown that he aimed to avenge what
20:01
Speaker 1: he perceived to be UH family issues and among the
20:06
Speaker 1: people in the church Nancy, I'm now learning was possibly
20:10
Speaker 1: his wife's grandmother, so he is in laws were getting
20:14
Speaker 1: text messages from him, angry text messages. Over a period
20:18
Speaker 1: of time. He was obsessed, as Cheryl and others are saying,
20:21
Speaker 1: with this woman his child. People like this look at
20:26
Speaker 1: them as objects that they own and have a right to,
20:30
Speaker 1: and his furies were building over time as he built
20:33
Speaker 1: up his his ammunition and his arsenal. Suddenly he unleashed
20:38
Speaker 1: it that day. To Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold
20:41
Speaker 1: Case Institute and a crime scene expert, let's talk about
20:45
Speaker 1: this guy and his bulletproof vest and his methodical planning.
20:48
Speaker 1: As Bobby Brown pointed out, Cheryl, okay, let's talk about
20:51
Speaker 1: the truth, Nancy. He's a pop He's weak, he's pathetic,
20:55
Speaker 1: and he knows it. That's the reason he goes after
20:58
Speaker 1: a baby, an infant. That's the reason he goes after
21:01
Speaker 1: a week girl. That's the reason he goes into a
21:04
Speaker 1: soft target like a church, where he knows there's gonna
21:07
Speaker 1: be no other weapon to stop him. That's the reason
21:10
Speaker 1: he puts on the bulletproof death. He's a punk. He
21:13
Speaker 1: referred to his gun as a bad bitch. He's just
21:16
Speaker 1: a bitch, you know, Cheryl. Uh. We know essentially what
21:21
Speaker 1: happened to him in the end, But I want you
21:23
Speaker 1: to hear from his own mouth what that hero who
21:28
Speaker 1: chased him down has to say. Listen, you saw two
21:34
Speaker 1: men shooting at each other. The the other hero tells
21:38
Speaker 1: you that this killer just shot up a church. He
21:40
Speaker 1: drives off, he tells you to chase him. You tell me,
21:42
Speaker 1: you say, let's go. Did you have any second thoughts?
21:45
Speaker 1: What was running through your head? Right? Then? Nothing? Get him?
21:51
Speaker 1: Why because that's what you do. The other guy, anything
21:56
Speaker 1: even tells about him. Uh, you know, he's very much
22:00
Speaker 1: a hero. He acted. He acted quicker than he could
22:03
Speaker 1: think as well. Um, he did absolutely the right thing,
22:06
Speaker 1: which was try and take him down on the scene. Um,
22:10
Speaker 1: you know, from what I know, You know, from what
22:13
Speaker 1: I know, he was just taking a nap and heard
22:16
Speaker 1: the gunshots and reacted. What kind of gun did he have?
22:20
Speaker 1: He had an a R fifteen, So they both, both
22:22
Speaker 1: the killer and the individual you drove, had a R fifteen. Um,
22:26
Speaker 1: the killer, the killer from what I heard, had a
22:29
Speaker 1: pistol for during the firefight, which is the main part
22:33
Speaker 1: that I saw. And then and then the guy with you,
22:35
Speaker 1: the other hero, had his own fifteen year sir, and
22:39
Speaker 1: he came out. He was barefooted. He was barefoot, yes, yeah,
22:43
Speaker 1: he he had no shoes on or nothing, but he
22:45
Speaker 1: was he was ready to act. And the moment police
22:48
Speaker 1: got there and everything, you know, he he did all
22:51
Speaker 1: the right things. That was Johnny Langerdorff, Now listen to this.
22:59
Speaker 1: I heard shot is the people at that church, the
23:04
Speaker 1: friends of mine, their family, And every time I heard
23:10
Speaker 1: a shot, I knew that that probably represented a life.
23:16
Speaker 1: I was scared to death. I was. I was scared
23:21
Speaker 1: for me, and I was scared for ever one of them,
23:24
Speaker 1: and I was scared for my own family that just
23:26
Speaker 1: lived less than a block away. I'm no hero, I
23:34
Speaker 1: am not. I think my God, my Lord protected me
23:41
Speaker 1: and gave me the skills to do what needed to
23:45
Speaker 1: be done. And I just wish I could have gotten
23:47
Speaker 1: there faster. But I didn't know. I didn't know what
23:51
Speaker 1: was happening. That was Stephen Oliford. So Art Harris tell
23:56
Speaker 1: me in the end what went down. In the end, Nancy,
24:01
Speaker 1: this neighbor with a gun, sees the guy come out
24:04
Speaker 1: of the church and is determined not to let him
24:08
Speaker 1: get away. He pulls his own gun. It's unclear when
24:11
Speaker 1: he fired, but this guy, this guy Kelly, dropped the weapon,
24:16
Speaker 1: got in his truck and fled, only to be pursued
24:19
Speaker 1: by the hero local hero and a friend at the wheel.
24:24
Speaker 1: He runs off the road, crashes, and is found with
24:27
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound that is fatal, and they're trying to
24:30
Speaker 1: determine whether it was self inflicted or if it was
24:33
Speaker 1: from this guy's gun. I know right now the very
24:35
Speaker 1: latest is that he had three gunshot wounds. Cheryl McCollum
24:40
Speaker 1: find it very difficult to believe he self inflicted three
24:43
Speaker 1: gunshot wounds. These heroes had a hand in this, Cheryl,
24:47
Speaker 1: great question, the old saying the over way to stop
24:50
Speaker 1: a bad man with a gun is a good man
24:52
Speaker 1: with a gun. He was shot in the leg and
24:56
Speaker 1: the torso we believe by an arm st pison. He
25:01
Speaker 1: was found dead in his vehicle. He also had a
25:06
Speaker 1: gunshot wound to the head. Now, after the single deadly
25:10
Speaker 1: is shooting in Texas history, we are trying to find
25:16
Speaker 1: out why. We know he called his father to tell
25:19
Speaker 1: him that he was shot. What does that mean, What,
25:24
Speaker 1: if anything, does that mean on his last moments on earth?
25:29
Speaker 1: That's what he did. Six dead in the house of worship.
25:34
Speaker 1: The investigation goes on. Let me pause and thank our
25:38
Speaker 1: partner making today's investigation into the Texas church shooting possible.
25:43
Speaker 1: On a happy note, it's link a k C dot com.
25:47
Speaker 1: You know, guys, we were just talking about how this
25:50
Speaker 1: guy treated his dog, and it was one of the
25:52
Speaker 1: first indicators that he would graduate to homicide. And that's
25:58
Speaker 1: a tried and true fact. You know, when I look
25:59
Speaker 1: at my little puppy dog, all I think is happy thoughts, happy, happy,
26:03
Speaker 1: you know. The twins all they wanted was a dog
26:06
Speaker 1: and a cat. All they wanted. That's it. And it
26:09
Speaker 1: was one of the last things my dad that you know,
26:11
Speaker 1: it was my real soul mate dead on earth. We
26:14
Speaker 1: we went and we got a dog and a cat
26:16
Speaker 1: from the pound. Now, they told me fat Boy was
26:19
Speaker 1: a pure bred docks and all right, guess what he's not.
26:23
Speaker 1: But I love that dog so much and send him
26:25
Speaker 1: a girl the cat too. And I'm always looking for
26:28
Speaker 1: new things to do or new things to help the
26:31
Speaker 1: two of them. And now I found this incredible new
26:33
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26:35
Speaker 1: I want you to know about it because it's so
26:37
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26:39
Speaker 1: the right word for it. It's backed by the American
26:42
Speaker 1: Kennel Club. The link a k C collar is a
26:45
Speaker 1: GPS locator. That's the key. Also, get this, it's a
26:50
Speaker 1: fitness activity tracker. Yes, for a dog and a smartphone
26:53
Speaker 1: app rolled into one. Now the thing I like the
26:56
Speaker 1: best is the GPS locator. For instance, while I'm here working,
27:01
Speaker 1: I don't have to worry that fat Boy is at home.
27:04
Speaker 1: A k A. Nitro. That's the name the pound game,
27:07
Speaker 1: and we immediately changed him to fat Boy one night
27:09
Speaker 1: when he fell asleep in the food bag and the
27:12
Speaker 1: next morning he was laying there on his back and
27:14
Speaker 1: his tummy was so big it was hanging over to
27:16
Speaker 1: one side, hence the name fat Boy. I don't have
27:19
Speaker 1: to worry that fat Boy has jumped over the fence
27:21
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27:24
Speaker 1: chased by a car. I know where he is. It's
27:26
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27:30
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27:34
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27:37
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27:40
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27:44
Speaker 1: to set up, which is good for me. He's always
27:45
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28:14
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28:28
Speaker 1: Thank you for this fun new thing I'm doing with
28:31
Speaker 1: fat Boy, a multi millionaire, repeat, a multi millionaire now
28:38
Speaker 1: suspected of human trafficking, of sex trafficking, a US multi millionaire,
28:48
Speaker 1: the darling of Wall Street, and the guy that is
28:53
Speaker 1: intimately entwined with George Soros, the billionaire. He was one
29:01
Speaker 1: of Sorrow's former managers. Right Now claims that Howard Howie
29:07
Speaker 1: Ruben rape and assaulted, beat, beat, flat outbeat three women
29:14
Speaker 1: lured them for purposes of sex trafficking. I'm Nancy, Grace.
29:20
Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
29:23
Speaker 1: You know when I make bold and brash comments like
29:27
Speaker 1: crime is all across the boards, it doesn't matter what
29:30
Speaker 1: color you are, what your heritage is, whether you're rich poor,
29:34
Speaker 1: whether you've got your doctorate degree or you didn't finish
29:37
Speaker 1: elementary school, crime affects your life. I learned it the
29:40
Speaker 1: hard way when my fiance was murdered. This proves it.
29:46
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, renowned psychologist joining me out of Manhattan,
29:52
Speaker 1: Karen Stark also with me, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan,
29:57
Speaker 1: professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, and Alan, do
30:03
Speaker 1: you joining me from l A you know? To you?
30:07
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, I say it, but I don't think
30:10
Speaker 1: people really believe it. But crime is across the boards,
30:14
Speaker 1: and this proves it. When I was prosecuting Inner City Atlanta,
30:18
Speaker 1: I can have rich stockbrokers come in for um distributing
30:23
Speaker 1: meth or crack or cocaine, and I could have street
30:27
Speaker 1: dealers Pinyanni street dealers. I mean, it didn't matter. I
30:30
Speaker 1: had rich business owners kill their wives and I had
30:36
Speaker 1: people in the street shoot somebody data or a five
30:39
Speaker 1: dollar hit of crack a rock. So it's true, but
30:45
Speaker 1: this really proves it. Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Nancy. Evil,
30:52
Speaker 1: evil and crime there there are no socio economic boundaries
30:56
Speaker 1: with this uh and in a case like this, it
30:58
Speaker 1: would seem that evil literally has no basement to it.
31:02
Speaker 1: Considering the nature of these crimes that have been committed.
31:05
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. It what
31:08
Speaker 1: what matters is the condition of your mind and the
31:10
Speaker 1: condition of your heart, And in this particular case, this
31:13
Speaker 1: is heart. Heart. You think this guy has a heart,
31:17
Speaker 1: Listen to this, Karen. Start This guy, this multi millionaire,
31:23
Speaker 1: stated that he would rape and attack the three ladies
31:27
Speaker 1: in a six dungeon in his penthouse apartment that he
31:31
Speaker 1: bought with his millions of dollars specifically for these attacks,
31:36
Speaker 1: and then would leave and go quote back to his
31:39
Speaker 1: wife and kids on the Upper east Side. So he
31:45
Speaker 1: would go rape these ladies and some kind of a
31:49
Speaker 1: dungeon where he kept them literally enslaved, and then go
31:53
Speaker 1: back to his wife and kids uptown. Karen, I'll tell
31:59
Speaker 1: you now, see it just it bellies your imagination to
32:04
Speaker 1: know that this guy, he was featured in best selling
32:08
Speaker 1: books like Liars Poker and The Big Short, and that
32:12
Speaker 1: he actually paid for this place where he had all
32:16
Speaker 1: of these chains and whips, and he paid these women
32:20
Speaker 1: to come so he could actually abuse them. Now, wait
32:24
Speaker 1: a minute. Human trafficking is different from hiring a hooker
32:30
Speaker 1: to let you spanker or hit her with a whip.
32:33
Speaker 1: That's a whole another can of worms. So what exactly
32:38
Speaker 1: are we talking about Alan Deep? I know that he
32:41
Speaker 1: was a manager of one of George Soros investment funds.
32:45
Speaker 1: First of all, tell me about who is George Soros.
32:47
Speaker 1: I think that's very critical to this. George Soros is
32:50
Speaker 1: one of the richest men in the world. He has
32:54
Speaker 1: a lot of investments. He's especially known for investments around
32:58
Speaker 1: the former Soviet Union and in Europe. But he is
33:01
Speaker 1: an American and he's very involved in American politics too.
33:04
Speaker 1: Why do you mean by that he's very involved in
33:06
Speaker 1: American politics. George Soros is one of the richest men
33:10
Speaker 1: in the world, and he manages all. He has a
33:15
Speaker 1: lot of investments. He's especially known for investments in Asia
33:19
Speaker 1: and around the former Soviet Union and in Europe. But
33:23
Speaker 1: he is an American and he's very involved in American
33:25
Speaker 1: politics too. Okay, you know how I feel about politicians.
33:29
Speaker 1: They all lie so Republican, Democrat or grain, they're all line. Sorry,
33:34
Speaker 1: there you go. So George Soros. Soros is a billionaire
33:40
Speaker 1: and this guy managed one of his investment funds. Now,
33:44
Speaker 1: let's get down to the facts. In this case, I
33:47
Speaker 1: am talking about a multi millionaire. He's filthy rich. And
33:52
Speaker 1: when I say filthy, that's just what I mean. In Manhattan,
33:56
Speaker 1: that kept a dungeon for women that he kept as
34:01
Speaker 1: sex trafficking slaves. Now again, that's a lot different than
34:05
Speaker 1: some guy hiring a hooker. Now, why is he being
34:10
Speaker 1: accused of sex trafficking? Alan, give me those Because of
34:13
Speaker 1: the way that it was allegedly done. He had a
34:16
Speaker 1: quote enterprise, He had employees, staff members, and including a lawyer,
34:20
Speaker 1: allegedly who would scout out these women, mostly in Florida,
34:25
Speaker 1: finding them through social media. They would have these Instagram
34:27
Speaker 1: accounts where they these are former Playboy playmates. Two of
34:32
Speaker 1: the three women in this allegation, this lawsuit are former
34:35
Speaker 1: Playboy playmates. They would Why are you throwing that fact in?
34:39
Speaker 1: Do you think I care? I don't care if it's
34:42
Speaker 1: a Playboy playmate or mother Teresa, God rest her soul.
34:45
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Lady Justice is wearing a blindfold, Alan Deep.
34:49
Speaker 1: He does not distinguish between victims or defendants. Well, these
34:53
Speaker 1: were not necessarily or even allegedly hookers. These were women
34:57
Speaker 1: who were contacted and said, Look, nobody even said they
34:59
Speaker 1: were hooker's. You said they were tying. You mentioned it earlier. Okay,
35:04
Speaker 1: I said that because you said these were people he
35:07
Speaker 1: would pay to use whips on there. No, no, no,
35:10
Speaker 1: they didn't know that they were going to have whips used.
35:13
Speaker 1: That's what I'm okay, you know what, Let's start a square.
35:15
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. Every day we start this show,
35:17
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're going to pull out the
35:19
Speaker 1: whips on me. Just go with yes and you'll be safe.
35:23
Speaker 1: But usually just go with yes. Now start at the beginning.
35:26
Speaker 1: We'll start with Soros. He's the billionaire. And now we've
35:30
Speaker 1: got this guy Ruben that works for him. He's the millionaire.
35:35
Speaker 1: All right, take it from there. He's sixty two years old.
35:39
Speaker 1: He has this staff that he allegedly cruise, you're never
35:43
Speaker 1: too A man is never too old for a sex attack.
35:46
Speaker 1: Go ahead. That's what I've always thought. He's he's got
35:49
Speaker 1: these staff members who scout out these women allegedly on Instagram,
35:54
Speaker 1: send them, invite, say hey, we're gonna fight you to
35:57
Speaker 1: New York. I bet they're glad they went and got
35:59
Speaker 1: their warton NBA to go work for Soros so they
36:02
Speaker 1: can go on Instagram to to look at the next
36:04
Speaker 1: sex trafficking victim. That's if that is true. Frankly, they
36:09
Speaker 1: need to be roped in on this investigation as well.
36:11
Speaker 1: That's a whole another can of worms. Go ahead. So
36:14
Speaker 1: he has slunk, he's looking for women online and flies
36:17
Speaker 1: them from Florida or wherever to New York, takes them
36:21
Speaker 1: to this penthouse and says on Jet Blue on Jet Blue,
36:24
Speaker 1: an eight million dollar penthouse in Manhattan. And as you said, correctly,
36:29
Speaker 1: it allegedly was only rented for the purpose because in
36:33
Speaker 1: a side room of this Manhattan penthouse he had a
36:36
Speaker 1: dungeon that was equipped with all kinds of sex toys
36:40
Speaker 1: and torture equipment, and then he allegedly would drug them,
36:45
Speaker 1: chain them, up, beat them, sometimes so brutally that they
36:49
Speaker 1: had to have medical attention. One of these women actually
36:53
Speaker 1: had to have her breast implants flipped over again because
36:57
Speaker 1: of the damage that allegedly was hold on. I've been
37:02
Speaker 1: a little bit joking about this guy because I find
37:07
Speaker 1: him contemptible. If these claims are true. But listen to this,
37:11
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, to what Alan do you is reporting? The
37:15
Speaker 1: women claim Rubin and his associates trick them, lure them
37:20
Speaker 1: to New York City on Jet Blue flights after being
37:23
Speaker 1: contacted on Instagram. Once they get there, they claim he
37:28
Speaker 1: drugs them and beats them so violently while they are gagged,
37:35
Speaker 1: that feeling of helplessness, of being bound and gagged and
37:39
Speaker 1: then beaten in a sex dungeon, and hitting one of
37:45
Speaker 1: the women so hard that he either in the breast
37:51
Speaker 1: so hard it flipped her breast implant around. Now, to me,
37:58
Speaker 1: not only is that, you know, an aggravator assault a felony,
38:02
Speaker 1: but it's very very telling that you would hit a
38:07
Speaker 1: lady in her private parts. It's telling because it shows
38:12
Speaker 1: the kind of rage that he has towards women. And
38:15
Speaker 1: it's supposedly allegedly he said, I'm going to one of them,
38:19
Speaker 1: I'm going to rape you like I raped my daughter.
38:23
Speaker 1: That's that's something that they say he said to one
38:26
Speaker 1: of them, which says that even his own daughter isn't
38:32
Speaker 1: somebody that he sees without feeling that kind of fury
38:37
Speaker 1: and anger. So that, I mean, even when you look
38:41
Speaker 1: at someone who's a killer. You take a look to
38:44
Speaker 1: see what they're doing, the kind of damage that they're
38:47
Speaker 1: doing to women. And anyone who does that is someone
38:51
Speaker 1: who has vicious feelings towards women. I mean, you know, psychologically.
38:57
Speaker 1: And I've brought this in in cases that I prosecuted before.
39:00
Speaker 1: For instance, if you slash a woman's face, you're trying
39:04
Speaker 1: to disfigure her beauty. Um, if you chop off her hair,
39:09
Speaker 1: like we saw in the Teresa Teresa hallback case, which
39:12
Speaker 1: was the Stephen Avery Making a murder case, he chopped
39:16
Speaker 1: her hair off before he tied her up with chains,
39:20
Speaker 1: assaulted her, and then killed her. There is something very
39:24
Speaker 1: specific um psychologically when you attack a certain part of
39:31
Speaker 1: a person, like say you want to get to somebody,
39:34
Speaker 1: you you steal all their money, You funnel all their
39:36
Speaker 1: money because that's all they care about, or you steal
39:39
Speaker 1: their pet, dog or or something that means something to them.
39:43
Speaker 1: In this case, disfiguring a lady by slashing her face
39:48
Speaker 1: or putting acid on her face, or beating her in
39:51
Speaker 1: the breast, it's very telling about his state of mind.
39:57
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morrigan, you have investigating any many death sees.
40:01
Speaker 1: What do you make of the theory that I'm advancing
40:04
Speaker 1: right now, Nancy. You know I've seen this time and
40:06
Speaker 1: time again and his brutal sexually related assault cases that
40:10
Speaker 1: I've worked over the course of my career with these
40:13
Speaker 1: people who are truly sexual sadist that go out and
40:16
Speaker 1: they attack these women. They will go as far as
40:20
Speaker 1: literally removing the body parts of women. They're doing it
40:24
Speaker 1: as as an attack, a sexualized attack on these individuals,
40:27
Speaker 1: to completely humiliate them, to base them, take away everything
40:31
Speaker 1: that identifies them as a woman, that destroys their beauty.
40:35
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what you're looking at here. I'm
40:38
Speaker 1: I'm very curious if these are the only three people
40:41
Speaker 1: he's done this too, because this sounds this sounds like
40:44
Speaker 1: he's had some practice at it. This guy, Howard Rubin,
40:48
Speaker 1: has been married since the eighties to his former Harvard
40:51
Speaker 1: Business School classmate Mary Henry. They have three children together,
40:57
Speaker 1: and as Karen Start pointed out, he is a an
41:00
Speaker 1: infamous Wall Street trader who was actually blamed for bringing
41:05
Speaker 1: about three hundred and seventy seven million dollars of losses.
41:11
Speaker 1: Three hundred and seventy seven million dollars of losses at
41:14
Speaker 1: Merrill Lynch and he's inn they they book liars poker.
41:19
Speaker 1: He hasn't responded to these allegations yet. What more do
41:22
Speaker 1: we know about the facts. This lawsuit is a civil lawsuit,
41:26
Speaker 1: not criminal, but they're doing it under RECO Laws Racketeering,
41:30
Speaker 1: Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, claiming that there was an
41:33
Speaker 1: enterprise that he created. So this is a pretty serious thing.
41:36
Speaker 1: They're asking for twenty seven million dollars for these three women.
41:40
Speaker 1: The women are not named, however, as Joseph Scott Morgan said,
41:45
Speaker 1: you might think that there were other women involved in
41:48
Speaker 1: These are the only ones involved in this lawsuit. They're
41:51
Speaker 1: claiming that they suffered emotional distress, assault, battery. But I'm
41:56
Speaker 1: wondering why there are not criminal charges and is there
41:59
Speaker 1: a criminal investigation going on now? You know what? I
42:01
Speaker 1: wonder that too, And it brings to mind the whole
42:04
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein debacle where this one on literally for decades
42:09
Speaker 1: and no law enforcement did a thing. And now the NYPD,
42:14
Speaker 1: who I love, by the way, at the highest Echalon's
42:20
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the street cops. I'm talking about
42:24
Speaker 1: the highest echelons amongst prosecutors that was the real problem
42:30
Speaker 1: that wouldn't prosecute the case. After cops brought the Weinstein
42:33
Speaker 1: case to them, they're now being shamed into acting because London,
42:38
Speaker 1: the Brits have opened up criminal investigations on Weinstein. So
42:42
Speaker 1: why has it been hands off on this guy? Like
42:45
Speaker 1: nobody knew what was happening. So he would warn them,
42:49
Speaker 1: I'm going to rape you, punch them, gag them, bind them,
42:54
Speaker 1: hit one woman so hard she passed out, So too,
42:59
Speaker 1: Joe's got more And what more do we know about
43:02
Speaker 1: the case. It describes force particular incidents and two thousand
43:06
Speaker 1: and sixteen. What more do we know? Based upon what
43:10
Speaker 1: we're hearing, what we're reading These women were severely assaulted,
43:14
Speaker 1: severely assaulted. And what's really what's really great about this
43:19
Speaker 1: from an evidentiary standpoint, they will have had to have
43:21
Speaker 1: sought medical attention in this. It's not like we have
43:24
Speaker 1: rape kits and that sort of thing to go back on.
43:26
Speaker 1: We have their word, but we also have this documented
43:29
Speaker 1: in medical records that can bring these doctors in and
43:33
Speaker 1: bring their medical records in in this particular case, they
43:36
Speaker 1: can take a look at them and they can document
43:38
Speaker 1: what these women went through physically the trauma that they endured,
43:42
Speaker 1: and this is going to paint a very graphic, graphic
43:45
Speaker 1: picture in court. Well, they are also problems with the case,
43:51
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at it not only from a criminal
43:53
Speaker 1: point of view, because in a rape case in New
43:56
Speaker 1: York now, I don't believe there's a statute of limitations
44:00
Speaker 1: so this case can be brought. Yes, they're going to
44:04
Speaker 1: be problems, there are, but that doesn't mean the case
44:09
Speaker 1: shouldn't be brought. I mean, if you only bring the
44:12
Speaker 1: cases you think you're definitely gonna win to a jury.
44:15
Speaker 1: I mean, all you're gonna be representing our nuns and
44:18
Speaker 1: priests and virgins for Pete's sake. Well, that's not how
44:21
Speaker 1: how victims come. They don't come that way. The problems
44:25
Speaker 1: are these. The women left the dungeon, but they came back. Also,
44:33
Speaker 1: they did not call police at the time. What are
44:36
Speaker 1: the problems with the case, Alan Duke, Well, they're just
44:40
Speaker 1: like you said, they didn't go to the cops and
44:42
Speaker 1: this but this is a civil case. They're just trying
44:45
Speaker 1: to show damages, and you do have physical damage. But
44:48
Speaker 1: then again, this man is already allegedly paid twenty dollars
44:53
Speaker 1: to have this woman's breast reconstructed after the alleged rape.
44:58
Speaker 1: So why why why why I didn't know that? Yeah,
45:01
Speaker 1: they they've already paid money every time a woman was hurt.
45:05
Speaker 1: She got the five thousand dollars allegedly and medical expenses. Well,
45:10
Speaker 1: they say that once they were in his penthouse, after
45:13
Speaker 1: he lured them here, lured them there, he would then
45:17
Speaker 1: turn on them. His whole to me or his facade
45:19
Speaker 1: would change and he would rape them and beat them
45:23
Speaker 1: so severely they needed medical treatment. Then as flunkeys or
45:28
Speaker 1: as they say, associates would offer them more cash and
45:31
Speaker 1: exchange for silence and paid all their medical bills. He
45:36
Speaker 1: paid their medical bills. That is documented. And this this
45:40
Speaker 1: is crazy. They had to sign DA's nondisclosure agreements before
45:45
Speaker 1: they entered the penthouse. They had to sign this statement
45:47
Speaker 1: saying that what happened inside stays inside. I don't know
45:51
Speaker 1: how legal that is, um not at all. And also
45:56
Speaker 1: as far as proof goes Karen Stark, it will be
46:00
Speaker 1: just a matter of computer forensics for someone um, you
46:05
Speaker 1: know like Ben Levitan, my buddy, uh the telecommunications expert,
46:09
Speaker 1: to look up how they were contacted on Instagram because
46:14
Speaker 1: according to them, they would be contacted by a Reuben
46:18
Speaker 1: associate who had been trolling for them online, stating he
46:23
Speaker 1: would like to meet her in New York and in
46:27
Speaker 1: fact in the Instagram that even referred to him as h.
46:30
Speaker 1: All of this will turn out being evidence. This is
46:34
Speaker 1: just another example of online crime in my mind, Karen,
46:43
Speaker 1: It's also another example of the kind of arrogance that
46:46
Speaker 1: you see in Harvey Weinstein. That the very thing that
46:50
Speaker 1: you brought up, Nancy, where somebody who feels that they
46:54
Speaker 1: are powerful enough and they could use their money and
46:58
Speaker 1: their power to do whatever they would like to do
47:02
Speaker 1: to victimize women, abuse them and destroy them. And it
47:08
Speaker 1: just makes you think about how often, not this particular example,
47:13
Speaker 1: but how often that goes on with women where people
47:17
Speaker 1: pay them or have power over them so they can
47:21
Speaker 1: dominate them. So where does this stand right now, Alan, Deep, Well,
47:25
Speaker 1: it was just filed just very recently and there's been
47:28
Speaker 1: no response to it from Mr Reuben or his lawyers.
47:32
Speaker 1: So it's going to go through the federal court, civil
47:35
Speaker 1: court process. I'm sure there'll be depositions, etcetera, etcetera. This
47:39
Speaker 1: is an example we talked about why there are prosecutors
47:43
Speaker 1: and a criminal case on this This lawsuit was brought
47:46
Speaker 1: by lawyers who make a good living off of finding
47:51
Speaker 1: people who were hurt and suing on their behalf on
47:54
Speaker 1: a contingency. These lawyers stand to make an awful lot
47:57
Speaker 1: of money. I don't know what the percentage wheter they
47:59
Speaker 1: get a third of whatever is the judgment. So that's
48:02
Speaker 1: where it's going. It's just gonna go through this long
48:04
Speaker 1: protracted legal unless he reaches the settlement. The women state
48:09
Speaker 1: that he would take them out for dinner and drinks
48:12
Speaker 1: where he was cordial and respectful. Then they would all
48:15
Speaker 1: go back to his place and suddenly as soon as
48:17
Speaker 1: they were there, his demeanor would change. He would fix
48:21
Speaker 1: them drinks out of sight, which they now say they're
48:24
Speaker 1: convinced was spiked. That he had some kind of a
48:29
Speaker 1: large X shaped machine with straps, a bench, full face
48:35
Speaker 1: masks with zippers and metal hooks, that he would immediately
48:41
Speaker 1: slap them across the face, that everything was unexpected. They
48:46
Speaker 1: did not realize that that was what was going to happen.
48:49
Speaker 1: I just wonder if this is going to result Joseph
48:53
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan in any criminal charges or do you think
48:57
Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office believes you have to be pure. Is
49:00
Speaker 1: the driven snow to be a victim in their courthouse.
49:04
Speaker 1: One of the things I'm wondering about here is did
49:07
Speaker 1: he videotape? Did he record any of these events? And
49:12
Speaker 1: if he did many times with these kind of serialized events,
49:17
Speaker 1: these people will hang on to this for forever and
49:20
Speaker 1: ever because they like to go back and relive this.
49:23
Speaker 1: And if the police do a thorough job, if they
49:26
Speaker 1: can get their electronic surveillance people in from a forensics
49:29
Speaker 1: perspective and dig through his files, there's all kinds of
49:33
Speaker 1: damning information that could be dug up on this fellow,
49:36
Speaker 1: because you know, when he's when he's at home living
49:39
Speaker 1: the normal kind of Norman Rockwell life that he might
49:42
Speaker 1: perceive himself with his family, he might go into some
49:45
Speaker 1: dark place and review this stuff, hitting away from everybody
49:49
Speaker 1: else because he's leading this double life. We stand by
49:52
Speaker 1: waiting for the latest. In this case a multi millionaire.
49:58
Speaker 1: Now a cut is of sex trafficking and these papers
50:04
Speaker 1: and how alan are they getting the church sex trafficking
50:08
Speaker 1: versus a simple sex assault. Well, it's under the Rico provisions,
50:12
Speaker 1: the Rico Act, and I think they're they're going to
50:15
Speaker 1: try to prove that there was an enterprise because he
50:17
Speaker 1: had employees, he had a lawyer allegedly helping him. It
50:20
Speaker 1: was an organization, and they trafficked them because they brought
50:24
Speaker 1: them from Florida under false pretenses to New York to
50:29
Speaker 1: Manhattan and then did this to them. Well, you know what,
50:32
Speaker 1: you're right about that, and nothing makes me matter. Then
50:36
Speaker 1: a crime not only violent nature, but committed by someone
50:41
Speaker 1: that believes they are above the law because they're not
50:46
Speaker 1: God willing, they're not Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off
50:50
Speaker 1: goodbye to