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Please Yell At My Kids · Other Peoples Parenting

0:00
Hello, everyone.
0:00
Welcome back to another episode of Other People's Parenting, where we read parenting books and review them for you.
0:06
I'm Skylar Hurwitz, amateur parents.
0:08
And this is my mom, Karen Quinn, New York Times bestselling author and founder of Habit Coach and Testing Mom.
0:15
Hello, Mom.
0:16
Hi, Skylar.
0:17
How are you today?
0:18
Oh, I'm good.
0:19
I'm good.
0:20
Just having a busy day, so we.
0:22
Gotta keep up our energy.
0:23
It's late today.
0:24
I know.
0:25
Usually we do this early in the day.
0:27
Now this is later in the day.
0:28
We have to be flexible, Tina.
0:29
I know, I know.
0:30
We have to be flexible.
0:32
I'm ready.
0:32
Are you ready?
0:33
Well, I'm ready because I really enjoyed this book, so.
0:36
Really?
0:36
Yeah.
0:37
Well, did you, you know.
0:38
Okay, caveat.
0:40
Okay.
0:41
If I hadn't read so many parenting books prior to this, I think I would like this more.
0:46
Okay.
0:47
But this felt to me sort of like a regurgitation of some of the better parenting books we had read.
0:56
So if you're only gonna read one parenting book, but you want sort of the best stuff from them, this is a pretty good choice.
1:05
Okay, you mean about.
1:06
Of parenting?
1:07
Well, we should say what parenting book we're reading?
1:09
Yes, let's say.
1:10
Let me.
1:10
Let me.
1:11
Let me hold it up so people can see it.
1:14
Okay.
1:14
It's called please yell at my kids.
1:18
And it says what it's about.
1:20
What cultures around the world can teach you about parenting in community.
1:25
Raising independent kids and not losing your mind by Maria Marina Lopez.
1:31
And a lot of it's about parenting in community, which was.
1:35
That was a big theme of this book.
1:38
But you're right.
1:39
We have read now several books about raising children around the world.
1:46
Is that what you're comparing it to?
1:47
The books about it sort of felt like a bit of a watered down version of my favorite book,.
2:00
Hunt Gathered Parent.
2:00
Hunt Gathered Parent.
2:01
I don't know why the title can, like, never come to me.
2:04
I loved that book.
2:05
Yeah.
2:05
And I think I preferred her storytelling to this author.
2:11
But again, it was pretty similar.
2:13
You know, she talks a lot about South America and the culture in Brazil around having babies.
2:18
And then she moves to Singapore and she sort of discusses that.
2:22
Right.
2:22
And I do agree with her that it is inarguably better to raise your children in some kind of family community that is larger.
2:34
Right.
2:35
Or friendship community.
2:36
Right, Right.
2:37
Yes.
2:37
Yes.
2:38
Well, let me give the macro.
2:39
Give us the macro.
2:40
Okay.
2:42
I think the overall description of this book is the idea that parenting in America is very, very hard because we give.
2:52
You know, we have no federally supported Parental leave, workplace pressures are very hard to take time off.
3:01
There's so much social media where you feel like you're being criticized based on how you're raising your child.
3:07
You can't do it right according to the Internet.
3:10
No.
3:11
There's like, oh, you can.
3:13
People are very fast to criticize different ways of parenting.
3:18
Parenting across the world often looks very different from how we do it in America.
3:22
And in this book, the.
3:24
The author, who's a journalist, she travels across the globe and shows us many different ways of raising children in community in different parts of the world, different customs.
3:39
And she kind of picks, like, a key custom in each area that she goes to.
3:45
And she does visit a lot more countries, I think, than some of the other books that we've read.
3:52
And the idea is to help American parents take some of these ideas and create their own supportive communities of care, Rediscover the joy of parenting, but without having to do it alone.
4:06
Yes.
4:07
So she always ties what she learns to.
4:10
Well, here's how you could do it.
4:12
Yeah.
4:12
At the end of every chapter, she gives you sort of a practical application.
4:17
Yes.
4:17
Which I liked.
4:18
Exactly.
4:20
She is from Brazil, and she eventually moved back to Brazil after spending a lot of her life in the United States.
4:30
One crazy thing they do in Brazil, crazy C section parties, or any birth party.
4:37
Not just C section.
4:38
I read it.
4:38
I did read, though, that C section is very common.
4:42
Like, elective C section is much more common in Brazil.
4:46
Okay.
4:47
Which is.
4:48
I get.
4:49
Yeah.
4:49
You had a good experience.
4:51
I had a great experience because it was elective, and there wasn't, like, a lot left up to chance.
4:56
I think C sections get scary when they're not what you want.
4:59
First of all, you've been laboring for however long, and you're just generally more distressed, whereas I literally showed up to the hospital, got an IV and then, like, got put in a chilly, chilly room.
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And then 20 minutes later, I had a baby.
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And I was like, wow, that's a good.
5:17
That is a nice way to do it.
5:18
I mean, I guess.
5:19
I mean, that really, to me, that would be a nice way.
5:22
It was ideal.
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I had a C section, but it was after, like, two days of labor.
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So, yeah, it was not a very pleasant.
5:28
It was an emergency, which is terrifying.
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Of all the situations that you hear, this is an emergency.
5:33
That is the absolute last one that you want.
5:35
Yeah, for sure.
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But luckily I arrived unscathed.
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You did.
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And you're very beautiful, beautiful baby.
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But anyway.
5:45
Yes, but you're right.
5:48
But I think they do this this custom with all babies, whether it's C.
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Section, everyone's at the birth.
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They're all at the birth.
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Not concerned about germs, which surprised me.
5:59
Well, or they set it up like they said that the way they have it is if you're having a C section, you can come and it's almost like a balcony above an amphitheater.
6:09
It's like a little theater, but I guess there's glass.
6:12
Yeah, yeah, you can look.
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Just letting people into the.
6:15
Or no, no, it's like you're in this like, Gl thing and you look down.
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It's like.
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It's like you're on a glass bottom boat and you're looking at the.
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The birth scene that's taking place below you.
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Oh, my God.
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One thing I didn't like about my C section that I just had a weird flashback of is I accidentally looked up into the light and it was reflective and I saw the inside of my body.
6:39
Oh, that's weird.
6:40
It was so weird.
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So don't do that.
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If you're getting a C section, don't look at the light.
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Oh, you'll see too much.
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Oh, God, no.
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I would not have wanted to see that.
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Big mistake.
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I remember during my C section, dad kept trying to go back on the other side of the thing and look in.
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He wanted to see what I looked like.
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What my insides look.
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I don't know.
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I was just.
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They kept shooing him to the other side for his own good.
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I know.
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But anyway.
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Oh, my God.
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One cool thing, though, about Brazil is that pregnant women get priority pretty much everywhere.
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At the bank, at the store, museums, theaters.
7:17
Yeah, but people don't really have a sense of personal space is what it sounds like there.
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So, like, strangers feel totally comfortable coming up and, like, touching your belly and all that stuff.
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I only really had an experience like that at synagogue, but not with my belly, with my baby.
7:34
And every single person over the age of 80 just felt totally comfortable going up to my baby and just touching her face, really?
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And kissing her head.
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And it was very sweet.
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Like, I could see.
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It was like they were just like a beautiful little baby.
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Like, oh, my God.
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But I'm just sitting there thinking.
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I'm like, thank God I had, like, gotten all of her vaccinations because all of these random people are just touching my baby.
7:57
Oh, well.
7:58
But I guess in Brazil it must be more culturally.
8:01
Culturally acceptable to.
8:03
A baby is just a small person after all, right?
8:07
Yeah, well, she.
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Okay, so she discovered that she.
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With her baby's birth she was expected to buy gift bags for all the people coming to watch the birth.
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And in Brazil, a birth is like a celebration.
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You invite your.
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Your closest friends, your family, your co workers come to the hospital to celebrate the birth.
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That's insane.
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To watch the C section from the window into the operating room to watch.
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The C section from the glass bottom boat.
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Exactly.
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That's what it gets.
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Like, looks.
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I'm imagining there were party planners on call ready to jump into action when mom went into labor.
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Everybody does this.
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Even if you're poor, you save up for your birth party.
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They said it's kind of like, you know, having a bat mitzvah.
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It's like, that's the birth.
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All right?
8:56
If the birth doesn't go as expected as what happened in her case, she had an emergency C section.
9:02
She hemorrhaged throughout her surgery.
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Scary.
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She suffered from a stomach infection.
9:06
I mean, she sounds like she had a terrible situation.
9:09
She was physically and emotionally drained when her guests showed up.
9:13
She wasn't happy.
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She was in pain.
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She was exhausted.
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People still came, and they surrounded her and cared for her and offered advice.
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And an esthetician even came in with a laser gun to help her with her C section scar.
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Where was my laser gun?
9:29
I don't know.
9:30
I didn't have that for you.
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I'm sorry.
9:32
We should have hired an esthetician.
9:34
That's a good idea.
9:37
But anyway, so.
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So she.
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The author of the book is a journalist, so she wrote this story up for the Washington Post, and she talked about a new mom who was professionally made up, who had a baby while caterers set up sandwiches in
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her hospital room.
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And people watched in person.
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They watched the birth.
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She invited the caterers.
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Well, the caterers were setting up, and the people were watching her birth on Facebook, live.
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Like a live stream.
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They were doing a live stream of the baby's birth.
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And American comments about this whole thing were just brutal.
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But it's their culture.
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It's a cultural difference.
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Could never be me.
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But also, I got pumped so full of fluid when I had my C section, I gained weight.
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By the time I got back from the hospital, I had a baby taken out of my body and a placenta which was easily ten pounds, and I somehow came home heavier.
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I don't know how that works.
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I remember that water, I guess.
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So I guess that's what it is.
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But, you know, the author said, you know, look, it's a rite of passage.
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You're surrounded by people you love, and you just.
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You're not alone at A big scary part, you know, moment in your life.
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And if things go sideways, the guests are gonna comfort you, take care of you.
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And after the birth, the family members, the friends, they all stepped in, they did chores.
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It'll feel like so much pressure to perform, I think.
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So I, I kind of like the, the idea of not being, having people see me in those situations.
11:10
Yeah, it's like, let me just like get through this and then we'll come back, you know, like, I'll call you.
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And we'll have a party then.
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Yeah.
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Or I mean like a bris happens pretty soon after you deliver a baby, but at least it's not like the baby is born and then we have a.
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That that day.
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I agree with you.
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That would, I would find it uncomfortable myself.
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And in fact, that is how, in America, that is how it is done.
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Yeah, we give birth privately.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But.
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But what she says is, you know, look, the way to bring this idea home is ahead of giving birth.
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Make sure that you have a social circle to support you and the baby.
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Look for the playgroups and meetups you can join.
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You know, think about having an advocate at your birth, like a doula, a.
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Grandmother, or just a very pushy husband.
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That too.
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But just really surround yourself with, with the people who are closest to you when you may need it the most, which I think is kind of what you did.
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We all came.
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We were all there after you had the baby.
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You came.
12:15
You guys all came the next day.
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We did.
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Because the first day I was on fentanyl and I was like, I don't know where I am.
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Okay, now would not be a good time.
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Plus, it was nice to just have like one day of just us and the baby, you know, and then.
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Yeah.
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And then everybody else could come and pay their respects the next day.
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Yes, we all came the next day.
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Exactly.
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I liked.
12:42
She talks in her second rule.
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She lists this as don't wash your hair for 40 days, which is it talks about the confinement custom that they do in China.
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Her husband is Chinese and her mother in law was giving her all of this information and also just there to care for her.
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And the confinement period is the first 40 days after you deliver your baby.
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You do not leave your house.
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Everybody comes and they take care of you.
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And in some cases, some women don't even leave their bed.
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Incredible.
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Doesn't that sound nice?
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Sounds so nice.
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They're not allowed to do housework.
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They're not allowed to take care of anybody but the baby.
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Right.
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But mothers, aunts, sisters, People come, they cook for you, and everybody sort of helps and makes sure that you do as little as possible.
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Right.
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Because the theory behind this is the first 40 days impact the way the mother heals for years, decades even.
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Oh, okay.
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And it, it, it impacts her chi.
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Okay, I didn't know that.
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I didn't realize that.
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Jersey, actually our guest for a couple weeks ago, when I got pregnant, she gave me this cookbook.
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I don't remember what it's called.
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I think I want to say it was called the first 40 days.
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It was a combination cookbook and confinement instruction manual.
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Wow.
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And I loved.
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Teaches you.
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No one really talks about, like, the fourth trimester.
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Everyone's like, the delivery, the delivery.
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How are you gonna have this baby?
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But then nobody really talks to you about, okay, what do, like, the few months after that look like?
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And what I loved about this book is it just gives you a way to plan for that so that if you don't, if you're not surrounded by tons and tons of family, if you want to practice the confinement
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but have to do it and you know you only have your partner or you're on your own, it gives you a way to set yourself up to do that.
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Oh, we should read that book.
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It's great.
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Oh, I would totally.
14:33
Yeah, we should totally cover that.
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That's a good book.
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I.
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I didn't even.
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That would be interesting because if you're, if you don't have a culture that just, you know, you kind of know what to do, this shows you what to do.
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And she did say that the mother in law was making all these different soups that had medicinal qualities.
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You're supposed to consume only warm food for the first 40 days.
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Anything.
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And not even like they tell you they advise against eating things, even like cucumbers that have a cooling quality to your insides.
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Congee is really good.
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Lots of soups.
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And the point of all these different soups, there's a lot of seaweed and minerals and things.
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Because you're so depleted after you have a baby, the soups are basically meant to sort of resupply your body with a lot of what you have spent in the gestational process.
15:24
Okay, that's very interesting.
15:27
If I were speaking to another parent who was on the fence about joining Testing mom, you know what I would say to them is that you're never gonna regret having done this.
15:36
You may regret not getting help because you know, you might not get that test score that you're looking for or you're gonna go through a harder Experience trying to help your child go through what's something you really need
15:46
professionals to, to help you on.
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And so I think hindsight is 2020 always.
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And you're really not going to regret this opportunity.
15:54
She talks about, you know, how in Shanghai there's, there are certified professional confinement nannies and they charge 2,500amonth for round the clock care, which to me actually sounds reasonable.
16:08
Worth every red center round the clock care for you and your baby.
16:11
Oh, yeah, that sounds, I mean, very good that.
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I don't even, I don't even want to think about what I spent on a night nurse.
16:18
Again, worth it.
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But like, sounds like it would.
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That, that's.
16:22
But, but they do say in America, you know, you can't.
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There are companies that will link you with Chinese post postpartum nurses, but One company charges $8,000 for 26 days of postpartum services.
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Yeah.
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And that's the same thing that 2,500.
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It's basically a night nurse for you.
16:41
It's essentially and sounds like a night nurse.
16:44
Um, there are, there are postpartum doulas to guide women through the transition into motherhood.
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Those are things.
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And she says the way to bring this idea home is to do your own DIY postpartum confinement, taking aspects of confinement that would work for your family.
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Just clear your plate for 40 days after giving birth and let all the people in your life know it.
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And also have a shower for mom.
17:09
I like this idea with gifts for the mom so that she could use it during her early postpartum to make her feel better.
17:17
Totally.
17:18
That's a great idea.
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Build a network of people and professionals to help you during postpartum.
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Don't worry about doing dishes, doing your hair, entertaining people.
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Just allow people to witness you in all your mess, whatever.
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Because you, you are recovering.
17:33
And I do think people that gets lost.
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I do think.
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Yeah.
17:37
This expectation, especially here, I just feel like the expectation to bounce back is so intense.
17:43
And you're judged for not immediately becoming your postpartum self.
17:47
Maybe less in America, more in France.
17:49
Apparently in France, it's like, oh, you've had the baby.
17:52
Yeah.
17:53
What's happening here?
17:54
Right.
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Your body is supposed to bounce right now.
17:57
Yeah.
17:57
And I like, I like that they have so much respect for the experience that the woman has just undergone.
18:04
Right.
18:05
That to create and then deliver this baby.
18:08
It's nice.
18:09
It's like, oh, okay, we're gonna treat this as what it is.
18:12
I personally would have struggled with this because I am compulsively neat and my husband is very clean.
18:21
But, like, nothing's clean enough unless I've cleaned it.
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And I remember, like, a couple weeks after my C section, I could not help myself.
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I was like, you were cleaning clean.
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I have to do it.
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Because I was like, this stress that it causes my mental state to have anything out of place was so overwhelming.
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I was like, I can't do this.
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So this would maybe not have worked for me.
18:44
But you know what's so funny to me is, as a child, you were so messy.
18:48
You were just the messiest kid.
18:50
And now you're so neat and clean and organized.
18:53
It's crazy.
18:54
Well, it's because I took control of my ADHD.
18:56
Yes, I know.
18:57
I guess.
18:58
So I supplement 80 as you run my life.
19:00
Yeah, you really did.
19:01
I.
19:02
That's a.
19:02
Kudos to you for that because that's a big change.
19:05
Well, then it became my problem.
19:07
Right.
19:07
Like, my bedroom in your house was a mess.
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I was like, I don't care.
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This is my house.
19:11
This isn't my house.
19:12
But it was your bedroom anyway.
19:14
It's just funny that.
19:15
That you've really done such a switch.
19:18
And then she moved to Denmark.
19:20
We've talked about this.
19:21
We did.
19:21
We covered Danish parenting last season.
19:23
Right.
19:24
They let their babies sleep outside for naps because they believe that the cooler temperatures are better napping conditions.
19:32
Right.
19:33
And there was a mom from Copenhagen in 1997 who was visiting, and while she and her husband were just having a drink at a restaurant, they left their baby outside in the stroller.
19:43
Yes.
19:44
And got arrested.
19:45
Well, I remember this.
19:46
I was living in New York at the time we were living here.
19:50
Oh, yeah.
19:51
You were already born.
19:52
And this family came and.
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And this.
19:56
The woman, they were eating, and they just parked their.
19:59
Their stroller outside the restaurant, went in and had had lunch.
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And there.
20:04
People are seeing this baby in a stroller, and nobody knows who it belongs to.
20:10
And of course, this is New York City, so it's not safe to do that.
20:14
So.
20:15
And I remember it was like, headlines in the Post and, you know, and in all the newspapers about this family.
20:21
And they got arrested.
20:23
And it turns out they were saying, well, no, this is what they do where they're from.
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And normal.
20:28
Yeah, we all got a lesson in cultural, you know, how the culture was different.
20:32
And the charges were ultimately dropped.
20:34
I think they were mostly.
20:35
Nothing happened to the baby.
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You know what I mean?
20:37
Thank God.
20:38
New York in the 90s.
20:39
That was luck.
20:40
Yeah.
20:41
Yeah, exactly.
20:42
But anyway.
20:43
But.
20:43
But they.
20:44
They talk about how important it is in Denmark to have alone time after a baby.
20:51
The movie theaters have special showings for moms of newborns.
20:55
You can leave your baby in the lobby.
20:57
You get a ticket goes on in Denmark, I don't know.
21:01
But you can just be leaving babies about.
21:04
You leave them in the lobby.
21:05
It's like a little coat check system.
21:07
And they put a little number on your stroller with the baby and you get your.
21:12
You get the right baby, hopefully when you come back out.
21:15
And they offer government facilitated parenting groups so new parents don't feel isolated.
21:23
They host all kinds of open sessions at indoor play areas and where there are motor skill experts who can advise parents on, you know, child development.
21:33
Wouldn't that be great if you could.
21:34
That would be great.
21:35
Go to place.
21:35
You know what's even better at it.
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It's free.
21:37
It's all free.
21:38
Parents are encouraged to socialize.
21:41
They can attend open parenting sessions with experts and get connected with government support services.
21:48
And the Danish parents are entitled to six visits from a registered nurse to check on her for, you know, postpartum depression, guide mothers with lactation, that kind of thing.
22:02
And, and they're all encouraged to find their own way as a parent, not to compare yourself to other people.
22:09
Yeah.
22:10
They.
22:10
They're told, you can care for your baby, you're capable, you can do it totally versus, you know, how we do it here, which is we just kind of transition into parenthood and isolation.
22:22
Yes.
22:23
And certainly if you're online, you might start to feel inadequate, possibly because everything.
22:28
You do is wrong.
22:29
You mean you're doing it that way?
22:31
Or if you say something or show a picture, people will criticize you.
22:36
I know.
22:36
And it's just like, did I ask?
22:38
Well, no.
22:40
Yeah.
22:40
I guess people feel if you put it out there, you're asking for it.
22:44
Well, normalize, not sharing unsolicited opinions.
22:47
I would think that would be nice.
22:50
I know.
22:51
No.
22:52
Anyway, so the way to bring this idea home, she says, is don't lose your identity after giving birth.
23:00
Bring your whole self to parenting.
23:03
Spend at least 10 minutes a day on things that fill your soul.
23:07
Do you do that?
23:08
Yeah, I think when I can.
23:10
Okay.
23:11
Spend the night with a friend or bring the baby with you when you're out and about, which you do all the time.
23:18
You know, just stay off social media.
23:20
Develop your own vision and style of parenting.
23:22
Yeah.
23:22
Which is, I think, what we all need to do.
23:24
Trust your instincts.
23:25
A lot of parenting is more intuitive than I think we realize.
23:30
And I think there are so many companies and people who benefit from Making parents feel like they don't know what they're doing, you know, because they have a solution, a product, something they can sell you.
23:41
Right.
23:41
And the truth is, like, just trust your gut.
23:43
Right.
23:44
Unless you're a truly terrible person, you're probably at least a decent parent.
23:48
Do it your way.
23:49
Way.
23:49
Whatever that is, you know?
23:51
Yeah, do it your way.
23:52
Exactly.
23:55
You decide what you want to do.
23:56
Yeah.
23:56
Okay.
23:57
This is big in Sweden.
23:58
Developing your paternal instinct in Sweden.
24:02
This is incredible.
24:04
Both.
24:04
Both parents get 480 paid days off per child.
24:12
That is a year and a half.
24:14
Wow.
24:16
For each parent.
24:18
And so they get into, like, breaking down sort of how the first 390 days, the parent.
24:23
The government pays X salary, and then it shifts a little bit.
24:27
But this is how you encourage people to have children.
24:31
You make it financially feasible and you make it subsidized by the government.
24:37
Because, again, it's not.
24:38
You know, a lot of people work for small businesses who can't afford.
24:41
Afford to pay someone a full salary if that work is not being done.
24:46
Right.
24:46
So somebody has to step in.
24:48
Right.
24:49
That is a great allocation of tax money, I think so, if you ask me.
24:53
Yeah.
24:54
Yeah.
24:54
It says when Swedish parents go back to work, they're allowed to scale down their hours through their child's eighth birthday.
25:02
Again.
25:02
Eighth birthday.
25:03
This is how you encourage people to start families.
25:06
You know what I mean?
25:06
Like the.
25:08
Tell them, we're gonna reward you for participating in the parenting of your child.
25:12
Right.
25:13
We're not gonna punish you, which is unfortunately the prevailing system here.
25:18
Right.
25:19
Well, yeah, you really give up a lot.
25:21
But, you know, it's worth it because we feel it's worth it because we're getting to have a family, but it's not.
25:29
We aren't getting help.
25:30
But what Sweden is saying is you don't have to choose.
25:32
You don't have to have to sacrifice one for the other.
25:36
And that creates a much higher quality of life.
25:39
Yes, yes.
25:39
You know, exactly.
25:42
And men carry a lot of the parenting load in Sweden because they can.
25:46
Because they are encouraged to take that time off, too.
25:48
A lot of that time is not transferable, because I'm sure if it were, it would be simpler for them to say, okay, who's the primary parent is most often the mom?
25:57
Why don't I just give all these days to the mom?
25:59
But in Sweden, they're like, you can't do that.
26:01
No.
26:01
And use it or lose it.
26:03
Exactly.
26:03
And it says the gender pay gap is the smallest in the world in Sweden.
26:07
Go, Sweden.
26:08
I know.
26:09
You know, nice.
26:10
Yeah, that's really nice.
26:13
And it's.
26:14
They said.
26:15
In the United States, research shows that children of fathers who took at least two weeks of paternity leave feel closer to their dads nine years later.
26:25
But men who take paternity leaves are often punished for it socially and professionally.
26:32
So that's what happens.
26:33
So it's hard.
26:34
Father's parents too?
26:36
Yes, of course they are.
26:37
You know, I don't, I don't think I've ever met a dad who if given the option to spend time with their newborn baby would be like, no, no, no, I got to hit the desk.
26:46
I got to get to work.
26:46
I got to hit that Bloomberg terminal.
26:49
I got to go.
26:50
Yeah, I don't know.
26:52
Let men be parents.
26:53
She says it to bring the idea home.
26:55
If you have parental leave, use it.
26:59
Look at recurring chores at home and distribute tasks in ways that feel fair to both of you.
27:05
When your partner's on duty, just let them do it their way.
27:08
Don't tell them how to do it.
27:10
You take ownership of your own responsibilities.
27:13
If you or your husband are missing skills, get a course, take a course, you know, expand your circle of friends to like minded people, that kind of thing.
27:23
And just know your rights, whatever they are.
27:25
Yeah, totally.
27:27
Yeah.
27:28
In Mozambique, they offer master classes in the power of community.
27:33
Not literally, but the ways in which their communities are set up.
27:38
Neighborly ties are essential.
27:40
It is smaller communities, they are very reliant on each other.
27:46
In some of them, they don't even have official banks.
27:49
They have village savings schemes where 10 to 20 people will contribute to a joint savings account and receive an annual payout.
27:56
Instead of insurance.
27:57
There are social funds that everybody contributes to to pay out in emergencies.
28:01
So people are really invested in each other's wellbeing and each other's children.
28:07
Because childcare solutions are collective, right?
28:11
They join forces, neighbors will join forces and take care of each other's children.
28:17
Even disciplining each other's children, which is called alloparenting, which we discussed in Hunt.
28:22
Gather parent.
28:24
There's a big section about how in a tribal community, everybody's responsible for everybody.
28:31
So your child has a couple people, not just a mom and a dad.
28:36
Maybe it's a mom, a dad, a grandparent, an aunt or a friend that is as contributes nearly as much to their development and their care, which is really nice.
28:47
I mean, that's how you learn.
28:49
The more people that you can observe, the more things you can learn.
28:53
And again, just the more eyes on your kid, you just feel safer it creates a safer community and place for a child to grow up.
29:00
If you.
29:00
Everybody feels responsible for them, right?
29:03
Yes.
29:03
And here they teach their kids that they have to contribute, not just consume.
29:11
The kids do chores in an unprompted way.
29:13
They care for their siblings.
29:16
So not only are they working in community to take care of the kids, the kids are helping as well.
29:26
And when the author was living in Brazil, she said she met a friend named Suki and they really bonded.
29:33
And so much so that when there was an apartment available above her apartment, she encouraged her friend Suki to move in.
29:43
And that just changed their lives forever.
29:45
Because what they did was they started watching each other's kids and bringing each other food and they would just lean on each other and help each other all the time.
29:56
So it was almost like living in a commune with another family.
29:59
And.
30:00
And when Suki's husband was transferred, the author said she was just shattered.
30:04
But the experience taught her how to create a community wherever she went with a good friend.
30:11
And the way to bring this home is lean on the friends you already have and invite them to lean on you.
30:18
And if you can, find your own Suki, good friend who lives nearby that you can really share responsibilities with, start a debt cycle.
30:28
Ask the person to help you with something small.
30:31
Then thank them for their help by inviting them to dinner and getting to know them.
30:37
You know, have an open, you know, a hangout space that people can come and visit.
30:41
Your neighbors can come visit, you know, have an invite a friend dinner to expand your social circle.
30:47
And if you feel a real spark with any of your neighbors, you know, try to deepen the relationship so that eventually you can support each other the way that she and her friend did.
30:57
I mean, to have a friend like that while you're raising kids would be amazing.
31:01
Yeah.
31:02
A godsend.
31:03
Yeah.
31:03
To share a lot of responsibilities and give each other nights off or whatever, watch each other's kids.
31:11
Totally.
31:12
That would be nice.
31:13
Something that I would tell other kids parents is that practice really makes perfect.
31:17
And Testing mom definitely emphasizes that along with all the games.
31:21
They are really patient with you and.
31:23
It makes the learning a lot more fun.
31:25
A big thing that I remember from.
31:27
Testing Moms is definitely my tutor Maddie.
31:30
She was a lot more patient and tutoring a lot more fun than learning about things.
31:35
With my mom, I remember that there were a lot of games and it made me look forward to going to tutoring every week.
31:43
And then she takes this one step further.
31:45
And she and her husband have a friend and or two friends who are also married who live in Singapore, and they decide, okay.
31:55
During the pandemic, they were on their own, trying to raise their kids in Brazil, and they followed some friends to Singapore who had already been there and established themselves, and they moved in across the street.
32:07
Yes.
32:08
And they created a similar dynamic where their kids grew up, almost like siblings, you know, like, they were always at one person's house.
32:15
They would come in unannounced, and they said that this sort of created a certain level of intimacy, like, this was encouraged.
32:24
And it's.
32:25
They kind of, like, took the formality out of a lot of elements of.
32:29
Yeah.
32:29
Of being people, which would be crazy to do here.
32:34
It's just, like, kind of unthinkable.
32:36
Well, it's hard to imagine, but that's.
32:38
It was like they would, you know, their kids went to the same preschool, so they carpool and they'd do the same extracurriculars.
32:45
So they'd take each other's kids and they'd watch each other's kids so that they could have alone time.
32:51
They'd share books and toys.
32:54
Their parents became pseudo grandparents to each other's kids.
32:59
So, yeah, it's a pretty crazy way of, you know, just.
33:04
It sounds crazy, but it sounds nice, too.
33:07
I mean, if you're good friends with these people.
33:08
And she said, like, obviously, like, there were disagreements occasionally and disputes, but you deal with them the way you deal with the family, where it's like, ultimately, we know we're all in this together, so, like, we're going to
33:17
resolve this.
33:18
One way or another.
33:19
Yeah.
33:20
And.
33:20
And she says, you know, she talks about another tribe in eastern Malaysia that.
33:27
That is very similar.
33:29
They.
33:30
They.
33:30
Their families sleep and eat in their individual apartments, but they share a common area, and they.
33:36
It's like a hangout, and they help each other all the time.
33:38
So she says this is something that happens in different parts of the world.
33:42
Yeah.
33:42
She also discusses that.
33:43
So the.
33:44
There are these places, these homes called longhouses, where this tribe lives, and there are 40 or so people in one longhouse, and it's several different families.
33:54
They all have, like, a room.
33:55
They'll put their kids to bed.
33:57
And then there's a communal space that all the adults are sort of expected to come and hang out in.
34:02
And nobody has phones, or maybe they do, but they're not on them.
34:05
They're all just sort of like, there, hanging out as a community.
34:10
Nice.
34:10
Yeah, really nice.
34:11
Very nice.
34:13
And she said you can experiment, you know, yourself with.
34:17
She calls it, instead of communal mommy life.
34:21
Yeah.
34:22
Integrate one person or another family into your close quarters.
34:26
Find someone you like to be around.
34:28
Test it out at first in small ways.
34:30
You know, carpooling, exchanging, babysitting.
34:33
And if you find it's working, you might propose a deeper solution or a deeper, deeper situation.
34:39
Make rules so things are spelled out.
34:42
Have hangouts and show out, show up for them and aim for a real intimacy.
34:50
If one person is sick, you know, take their kids or cook for them, you know, but they say that's a way you can, like I could see doing this, like, especially if you were close to your brother or
35:01
sister and they had kids or just like a best friend or something, I could see doing that.
35:06
We sort of do this with Ben's sister because she lives upstair.
35:10
Like, I've definitely called her in a pinch to watch the baby and she's always down really nice.
35:16
So nice.
35:17
Yeah, that's so good.
35:18
That's great.
35:20
And then another thing that an interesting element of Singapore society is that grandparents are often, or sometimes more often than here, primary caregivers to half of Singaporean children.
35:35
And just for perspective, in the United States that there's about 4% of children who are regularly cared for by their grandparents.
35:44
And this is a big cultural thing in Singapore.
35:49
So much so, in fact, that often the government will grant $15,000 for adults who live within three miles of their parents because they've, they've seen that this is a symbiotic arrangement.
36:03
Grandparents tend to be healthier and more cognitively all there for much longer if they are participating actively in the care for their grandchildren.
36:12
And obviously the parents and the grandchildren benefit immensely from this.
36:17
Right, right.
36:18
And they give them a subsidy as well to help pay them not only the housing grant, but there's just a tax subsidy.
36:27
And parents often pay the grandparents 10% of their income as a sort of a payment for helping.
36:35
And the way it's paid back to the grandparents is there.
36:38
They're more like in their 60s when they're helping with the kids, but when they're older, in their 80s, then, then the family will take care of them.
36:48
And I like that about Asian cultures that it's like multigenerational homes.
36:56
I really like that.
36:57
I mean, I'm so lucky because you guys are close by and my husband's family is so close by that Lenny gets regular contact with her extended family.
37:07
And I think that her life is just so much richer for that.
37:10
Oh, yeah, definitely.
37:12
I mean, I think having grandparents around the children is just so wonderful, beneficial for everybody, for the grandparent for the parent, for the child, for everybody.
37:23
Totally.
37:23
Yeah.
37:24
So yeah.
37:26
And in fact, she said studies show that there's a grandparent advantage.
37:30
Strong bonds between grandparents and grandkids result in lower rates of depression for both.
37:37
Children around older adults develop better emotional intelligence and childcare can improve a grandparent's cognitive functioning and they live longer.
37:49
It says grandparents who provide childcare for grandchildren in one study live 33% longer than grandparents who didn't.
37:59
So that's a.
38:00
Interesting.
38:01
I guess I'll be caring for your.
38:04
Say the word because when she gets busier, if I want to keep a job, I'm going to need some help.
38:10
You're going to need help.
38:11
Okay.
38:13
So what she suggests, she says if grandparents, if your child's parents aren't nearby, you can invite older parents in your area to be part of your child's life.
38:24
And you know, it's interesting because grandma, you know, your grandmother, my, my mother in law, there's another family who lives near her with three kids in Denver and they have adopted her.
38:37
They're their neighbors and they're over all the time.
38:40
When I talk to her, we talk every week.
38:42
She tells me about each one of the kids.
38:45
It's like they're her grandkids.
38:46
I mean she's very attached to these kids.
38:49
She's very invested and they love her.
38:52
And she loves them and I think it's good for everybody.
38:55
And you're right.
38:56
And it just happened naturally.
38:59
And so I think.
39:01
But she talks about.
39:02
The author talks about a program in Indiana called Grandparents on Demand where locals will actually fill in for missing absent grandparents by doing babysitting or coming to a grandparents date with a child.
39:16
And so if you have an older person in your neighborhood and your parents aren't there, gosh, you know, see if.
39:23
They want to hang, see if they.
39:25
Want to become your good friend and you're here, you know, substitute grandparents.
39:29
And a lot of times they do.
39:31
Yeah, why wouldn't they?
39:32
How fun is that?
39:33
They're retired.
39:34
I mean you never know.
39:35
So you know, it depends.
39:36
But one thing she also talks about in Singapore, how the, the paid help culture is not what it is here.
39:49
Whereas in the States people are often judged for getting paid help or they're judged for not getting paid help.
39:59
In certain communities it really just depends like where you are and what the standard is.
40:03
Right.
40:04
Obviously here.
40:06
And I'm sure in many places in the world it can be prohibitively expensive.
40:12
That said, the benefits that particularly women, mothers, primary parents, whoever they may be, get from having Support, Whether it's just housekeeping or watching the kids or something, it helps preventing burnout.
40:31
Yeah.
40:31
Which is such a problem.
40:33
And I feel like the culture here is you're burnt out, but you're covering it.
40:38
Right.
40:39
But you're not really, because as we discussed in previous episodes, if you're not suffering, you're not doing it right here.
40:46
Like, that's the prevailing attitude.
40:47
Whereas in Singapore, it's like, no, no, get the help you need.
40:51
There are programs and ways to subsidize it, and it is worth it.
40:55
And the culture sort of says, listen, it's worth it.
40:58
We are not going to judge you for this.
41:00
Right.
41:00
You don't have to do everything to be a great parent.
41:04
Yes.
41:05
You do everything all the time.
41:06
Right.
41:07
It's okay.
41:07
And.
41:08
And, yes.
41:08
And.
41:09
And it's, of course, in Singapore, it's less expensive to get help.
41:12
Yes, you're right.
41:14
But one of the things she said that kind of one of the reasons in America it's people don't want to get help, is she talks about the idea of attachment theory, which came out in the 50s, which we've
41:30
read about, of course, where we know that a baby's earliest bonds are with their mother, primary caregiver, mother, usually.
41:39
And that creates a blueprint for all adult relationships.
41:43
And so the idea was, it kind of.
41:47
There was this.
41:48
There's this, I don't know, belief kind of that, you know, motherhood just can't be outsourced.
41:54
And if you are getting help, then you're trying to outsource your motherhood, and that's not.
41:59
And you don't deserve.
42:00
Nobody should do that.
42:02
And it's like.
42:03
Yeah, but in reality.
42:04
Reality, look, we're especially, you know, that's.
42:06
Such an American thing, though, because again, we.
42:08
We have this idea that the nuclear family is sort of the blueprint and what everybody should be doing.
42:12
Mom, dad, kids.
42:13
Yeah.
42:14
And no one else should participate.
42:16
And in no other place in the world.
42:18
Right.
42:18
Is that the case?
42:20
They say it takes a village because that's how most people do it around the world.
42:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:26
And there's no shame if you have to buy your village.
42:30
Buy it.
42:31
Right.
42:31
If you can.
42:32
If you.
42:32
If you can afford it, afford to do it.
42:34
And.
42:34
And she says there's ways that you can do it where it doesn't cost as much, you know, that you can, you know, you can hire people by the hour, maybe for a few hours a day, or just hire
42:47
someone to do the things you hate doing, like maybe cleaning or getting Groceries or doing errands.
42:53
So you can just be with your kids.
42:55
So, you know, that'll let you be with your children.
42:58
So that's what she says.
42:59
And.
43:00
And she's, you know, supporting, you know, going ahead and, you know, getting help when you need it, especially if you don't have family nearby.
43:10
I mean, you just can't do it alone.
43:12
No, you can't.
43:13
That's what she says.
43:13
And she's right.
43:14
Yeah.
43:15
Okay.
43:15
In Holland, there is a summer ritual called dropping, where the Dutch parents basically just ditch their kids in the forest and they're like, find your way home.
43:24
Yeah.
43:25
Preteen kids.
43:26
Yeah, they're kids.
43:27
And we've talked about free range parenting, which is the Lenore Skenazi book.
43:33
Right.
43:33
And she's a huge advocate for things like this.
43:36
And I.
43:36
I absolutely see the value in something like this.
43:38
You are basically saying to your kids, listen, you're a person.
43:41
You're gonna have to figure things out in this world.
43:44
So here is a ritual, something that you can just do.
43:47
And because it's culturally accepted, you know, if they run into adults along the way, maybe the adult will help them out or maybe they won't because they're like, this is your job now.
43:56
This is your dropping.
43:57
You're supposed to find your way home.
43:59
You've been dropped.
44:00
Yeah, you've been dropped.
44:01
You have to.
44:02
You have to find your way home.
44:03
Yes, but it's good.
44:05
I think that this kind of freedom builds confidence.
44:08
It gives them.
44:08
It's something also that they can do together.
44:11
And it says sometimes parents, you know, a parent will, like, sort of follow behind in secret, but not let them know.
44:18
Right.
44:18
Just to make sure nothing goes wrong.
44:22
But rare.
44:24
What?
44:25
Where am I?
44:25
Oh.
44:27
Oh.
44:27
Also, this I'm not surprised about because every Dutch person I know is obsessed with biking.
44:32
75% of kids in the Netherlands bike to school.
44:38
In the US It's a much lower percentage probably because it's, like, not that safe.
44:44
But that's coming from someone from New York, which is like, I would never put a child on a bicycle in New York City.
44:48
I think that's.
44:49
That's deranged.
44:50
Right.
44:50
But in.
44:51
In some cities, you can do that, you know, depends where you live.
44:54
It's.
44:54
It's safe to.
44:55
It depends.
44:56
Yeah.
44:56
You know, Right.
44:58
No, but the kids in the Netherlands do get a lot more freedom to be out and about.
45:04
And.
45:05
And it's because they say that in the Netherlands, community watches the kids.
45:11
Yeah.
45:11
There's a lot of freedom because neighbors are all watching.
45:14
Out for your kids.
45:15
And you're watching out for the neighbor kids.
45:17
Yeah.
45:17
Which is not what we do here.
45:18
No.
45:18
Every man for a moment.
45:20
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
45:23
And in France, they encourage you to give your toddler blue cheese.
45:29
Okay.
45:31
In the 40s, the US had subsidized childcare.
45:35
And we offered three, over 3,000 centers responsible for 130,000 kids.
45:41
The program ended in the 40s.
45:44
And then in the 60s, there was this movement in France for the government to support daycare.
45:48
And, and French.
45:49
The French daycare system is one of the most revered in the world.
45:53
It's amazing.
45:53
Everybody wants their kid to go.
45:55
These particular daycares, they teach them about food.
45:58
They really honest manners.
46:01
They do it right.
46:02
In France, like it is coveted and there are not enough spots.
46:06
But there are still way more spots there than there are here.
46:09
Yes, yes, I digress.
46:10
Right.
46:11
And they're, they're either free or they're very, very inexpensive.
46:14
Yeah.
46:16
And she says with this, this is something you can't necessarily fix on your own.
46:21
It's a systemic problem.
46:23
Be an advocate who fights for early childhood education and care in America.
46:29
That's what you can do.
46:30
And look into local co op options where you could help raise the child.
46:37
And then in Finland, expectant mothers are given a choice of receiving a baby box with all these supplies for their newborns.
46:47
The box itself becomes a cradle.
46:50
Love that low waste.
46:51
Or they can get the cash equivalent.
46:53
But most moms choose the box.
46:56
Right.
46:56
They also get 360 paid days off, starting 40 days before the baby is born.
47:02
Wow.
47:03
So you can actually prepare for this child.
47:07
And then the government also gives the birthing parent $15,000 in parental benefits and $3,000 to their partner.
47:17
Wow.
47:17
Like, what are we doing here?
47:19
I don't know.
47:20
We are a developed nation.
47:22
I know.
47:23
We don't do any of this.
47:24
I mean, no, because we love to say we want more children, but we don't actually want to take care of more children.
47:29
Well, it's, you know, look, it would cost more.
47:32
I mean, these countries, I'm sure they tax a lot at a much higher rate.
47:36
Yeah.
47:36
European tax rates are outrageous.
47:38
Very high.
47:39
And you know, you get, you get.
47:41
Benefits, but those are nice benefits that you do get.
47:44
Yes.
47:44
Okay.
47:45
Also healthcare.
47:46
That's nice.
47:47
Yeah.
47:48
In the US our fertility rates are well below the necessary replacement level for a post industrial economy.
47:56
Our population is shrinking, our tax base is shrinking.
47:59
And Social Security as a result of that will just no longer exist after.
48:04
Not after 2035.
48:06
But it's really Dwindling because we just don't have enough people working to contribute to the system.
48:11
Which brings me back to if the government could at least partially subsidize people when they have a child.
48:18
I'm not talking about, like, fully.
48:20
I'm not saying pay my salary for 500 days, but, like, six months even.
48:25
I feel like fighting for six months of, you know, of maternity leave is, like, people will just scoff.
48:33
It's, like, unheard of here.
48:35
It seems like so much, but.
48:36
But she talks about a program in Flint, Michigan, called RX Kids, where all pregnant women receive $1,500 midway through their pregnancy to help with costs.
48:47
And after the baby's born, they get $500 a month for the first 12 months of the baby's life.
48:53
It isn't seen as a handout.
48:55
It's empowering parents.
48:58
It's cash, no strings attached.
49:00
And you're just supposed to use it to help raise your child.
49:05
I mean, that's.
49:05
I think that's amazing.
49:06
Me, too.
49:07
You know, they should employ that in other communities.
49:09
It would be nice.
49:10
Yes.
49:11
You know, so the author then moved back to America, and she decided to, you know, put what she learned to the test.
49:19
She moved to a new city, and she went about making friends methodically, inviting parents and kids to brunch and play dates.
49:27
She tried to be a super connector, and she invited women over who she thought would like each other for happy hour and for wine and cheese nights.
49:36
And at home, she and her husband took a tip from the Swedes.
49:39
They divided their labor at home, so they were responsible for different things, and kids were given chores just like what they saw around the world.
49:51
They missed having household help and ended up joining with two other families to split the cost of a household manager who worked to help them get many different tasks done.
50:02
In the first months back, the grandparents and other relatives took turns staying with them and helping with the kids.
50:09
And, you know, the final chapter, she sort of says, you know, people around the world parent different, and they parent in community.
50:18
And she says, you know, that communal life doesn't just happen.
50:21
You have to curate it and work at it.
50:24
But if you prioritize living close to those you love and investing in relationships around you, it's a wonderful way to raise your children, which I would agree totally.
50:35
Yeah, I think that's the best way if you can swing it.
50:37
If you can find a way to do that.
50:39
Yeah, why not?
50:41
Yeah.
50:42
I mean, we brought you guys up away from both your sets of grandparents, and I think that was.
50:48
I Wish that you guys had.
50:50
Had your grandparents and cousins close by.
50:52
I think you missed out because of that.
50:55
Yeah.
50:55
I mean, you know, there's a flip side of that too, where it was always such a fun, special occasion to get to go see them.
51:00
Yeah.
51:01
But it would be.
51:02
Would have been nice, you know, it would have been nice to just be able to, like, go up the street.
51:06
And know your cousins and know.
51:07
I mean, I can see the advantage of having that.
51:09
Totally.
51:10
Like, my daughter, like her great grandmother, where we are when we're not in the city is across the street.
51:17
She can just go see her great grandmother whenever she wants.
51:20
Uhhuh.
51:21
Oh, that's wonderful.
51:22
And she can see me and she can see you.
51:24
She can just walk up the street to.
51:25
You walk up the street.
51:26
And then her other grandmother and grandfather, they're all.
51:29
All here.
51:29
I mean.
51:30
Yeah.
51:30
It's so nice.
51:31
Aunt.
51:31
Her uncles.
51:32
Yeah.
51:33
So lucky.
51:33
Very lucky.
51:34
She's very lucky.
51:35
She is.
51:36
So.
51:36
I don't know, I thought it was kind of an interesting book, but I.
51:39
I hear what you said about, you know, at the beginning, maybe I didn't like it as much as maybe the first book I read about France, maybe because the French book was the first book I read on this
51:51
subject, and I was like, wow.
51:53
And, you know, fascinating the kids around the world.
51:57
Yeah.
51:57
And then I'm reading this and I'm like, well, all right, all right, I know about that.
52:00
Yeah.
52:01
So, like, we're a little bit biased.
52:02
Yeah.
52:03
Because we've read a lot of.
52:03
But I did like this book.
52:04
Again, I think this is a good book to read if you're not going to set out to read 30 parenting books.
52:09
Yeah, Like, I'm going to pick one.
52:11
And it.
52:11
This goes all around the world.
52:13
Yeah.
52:14
Yeah, it does.
52:15
It's.
52:15
It's a nice one.
52:16
And I like the title.
52:17
Please Yell at My Kids.
52:18
Yeah, catchy title.
52:19
Catchy title.
52:20
Good editor.
52:21
Yeah, very good.
52:23
So anyway, honest, it wasn't scientific.
52:25
I was gonna ask.
52:26
Nothing.
52:26
Nothing scientific about it, which I appreciated.
52:29
Yeah.
52:29
No data.
52:30
It was an easy read.
52:31
Yes.
52:32
Easy read.
52:32
It read like, not quite like a novel, but it read like a.
52:36
Like a magazine article.
52:37
Yeah, kind of, you know.
52:38
Yeah.
52:38
Huh.
52:39
Exactly.
52:40
All right, well, thank you guys so much for joining us, and we'll see you next week.