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Sandra Grey: Tertiary Education Union President says free speech changes not needed · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

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  Speaker 1: The government has announced changes to free speech rules for universities.
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  Speaker 1: It says it's concerned that they are currently taking a
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: risk based approach and they need more diverse opinions. The
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  Speaker 1: new rules will set out expectations for universities on how
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  Speaker 1: to approach freedom of speech issues, and each one will
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  Speaker 1: have to adopt a free speech statement. Universities will also
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  Speaker 1: be prohibited from taking positions on issues that don't relate
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  Speaker 1: to their core functions. I'm sorry, I thought we're talking
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  Speaker 1: about freedom of speech. There there's a prohibition. Sandra Gray
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  Speaker 1: is the Tertiary Education Union president, joins me. Now, Hello, Sandra, Sandra, Sorry.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, good morning.
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  Speaker 1: It is a little ironic that there's all these new
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  Speaker 1: rules on freedom of speech which takes away your freedom.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I thought you made a really good link there.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we want freedom of speech, and yet we
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  Speaker 3: want to prohibit what universities can and can't do. It's
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  Speaker 3: a bit heavy handed, this approach to campus based speech,
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  Speaker 3: to what goes on on university campuses, and it's good reasons.
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  Speaker 3: We don't want individual governments dictating what can and can't.
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  Speaker 2: Be talked about on a university campus exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So you're worry I believe is that it will
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  Speaker 1: allow disinformation, misinformation, lies and untruths to be spread at
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  Speaker 1: a place of intellectual and scientific rigor.
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  Speaker 3: Look, we do need our universities to be very rigorous
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  Speaker 3: in our health. Debate is conducted in what's said there,
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  Speaker 3: and we really don't need another space because there are
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  Speaker 3: many many spaces where people can go out and just
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  Speaker 3: say anything they think, anything they like, off the top
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  Speaker 3: of their head without evidence. That's not what universities are for.
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  Speaker 3: It's not going to help the New Zealand communities that
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  Speaker 3: need research, that need rigorous research. It isn't going to
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  Speaker 3: help us, as you know, academic communities be involved in
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  Speaker 3: good debate. All this is going to do is give
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  Speaker 3: people who have no background and an issue another platform,
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  Speaker 3: another space to go and speak.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the whole thing is the legislation, and this is
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  Speaker 1: out of the legislation. Words will require universities to actively
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  Speaker 1: promote an environment where ideas can be challenged, controversial issues discussed,
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  Speaker 1: and diverse opinions expressed, and ensure that they are not
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  Speaker 1: constraining the freedom of speech rights of students, staff for
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  Speaker 1: invited speakers. It will also prohibit universities from adopting positions
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  Speaker 1: on issues that do not directly relate to their core
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  Speaker 1: role or functions. That's the whole thing about the legislation.
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  Speaker 1: Do you not already do that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I would say that universities are already a space
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  Speaker 2: where ideas are hotly contested, and that's because that's how
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  Speaker 2: you come up with new innovative ideas. Academic freedom is
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  Speaker 2: already in legislation, and that's the rule that says you
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  Speaker 2: have a responsibility to speak truth to power, to actually
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  Speaker 2: say the controversial things that matter. So this seems like
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  Speaker 2: an unnecessary piece of legislation, and it does.
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  Speaker 3: Seem like it's going to interfere with the rights of
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  Speaker 3: the academic communities, with the rights of students to actually
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  Speaker 3: get on and.
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  Speaker 2: Do the stuff they're already doing. Well, says the government
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  Speaker 2: can say, that's not your cool business. Well, what's not
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  Speaker 2: you call business?
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  Speaker 1: What will your free speech statements say?
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  Speaker 3: What will the free speech statements say? Well, actually, I
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  Speaker 3: think universities have to have stronger academic freedom statements which
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  Speaker 3: provide an obligation for academics to be involved in the
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  Speaker 3: big debates of our age and do it with rigor
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  Speaker 3: not do it because they go wake up one morning
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  Speaker 3: and say, oh, I just want to go out and
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  Speaker 3: talk about you know, climate change. I don't know anything
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  Speaker 3: about it. I never researched it, but I want to
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  Speaker 3: go and talk about it. We don't want that for
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  Speaker 3: our academic community.
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  Speaker 1: Sandra, Merry Christmas. Thank you so much for waking up
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  Speaker 1: early and joining.
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  Speaker 3: Us for more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge.
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