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Ed Stetzer Live - Discovering God's Healing Mercies · Disciple Radio

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  S1: The following show is pre-recorded, so we won't be able
• 0:03
  S1: to take your great calls.
• 0:10
  S2: Well, this is Ed Stetzer live and I am well.
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  S2: I'm almost always live, but I'm live in downtown Chicago
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  S2: at the studio of Moody Radio. Got the team right
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  S2: out here. You can't see them, but I'm waving at
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  S2: them right now. And, uh, I like doing this. So
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  S2: I'm actually here in town. Yesterday we had the inauguration
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  S2: of the new president of Moody Bible Institute. Super excited
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  S2: to I was great to great to be there. Rick.
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  S2: Rick is is going to do a great job. Rick
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  S2: Nelson is going to do a great job as the
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  S2: president here as well. And so and that's a key thing,
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  S2: you know, for those of us who are in Chicagoland
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  S2: for a while, as as as I was, you know,
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  S2: we we know the impact of Moody Bible Institute and,
• 0:51
  S2: and of course, Moody Radio, you listen to, there's moody publishing,
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  S2: there's all kinds of things. And, and Rick Nelson has
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  S2: joined us as the 11th president Moody Bible Institute. I've
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  S2: known Rick for 20 plus years, and he's he's well
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  S2: qualified for the role. And I guess now he's my boss.
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  S2: I mean, we were friends, but now he's my boss.
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  S2: We actually taught a class together at Trinity Evangelical Divinity
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  S2: School back in the day. And some other things. I
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  S2: won't go through all of my life story where Rick.
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  S2: But I'm excited that he's he's here as the new president.
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  S2: Rick Nelson, we're cheering you on after the inauguration. If
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  S2: you're in Chicagoland tomorrow, I'm at Park Community Church preaching
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  S2: and Tuesday I'm at the amplify conference at Wheaton College.
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  S2: And I'm so excited about all of those things. And
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  S2: speaking of friends, people I like, my guest today fits
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  S2: both of those categories. And, uh, Scott Sauls is his name.
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  S2: He served as a pastor for flagship churches in New
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  S2: York City and Nashville. Prior to this, he planted I
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  S2: love church planters and led churches in Kansas City and
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  S2: Saint Louis. He loves the joys and challenges of leading.
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  S2: He's also taught preaching and public speaking at the master's level.
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  S2: Published seven books, including what we're going to talk about today,
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  S2: The Mercy King, How the Kindness of Jesus Heals Your Sin, shame,
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  S2: and weakness. You know, he's keynoted all kinds of conferences from.
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  S2: And even a governor's inauguration. He founded Healthy Leaders, Inc.
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  S2: and the Sycamore Community, a ministry that helps high responsibility founders,
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  S2: executive leaders, cultural influence, and pastors approach life honorably and meaningfully.
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  S2: And I'm assuming, Scott, that you are joining us from
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  S2: the great city of Nashville, Tennessee. Is that a correct statement?
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  S3: Yes. Ed Stetzer, former hometown. I lived there for ten years.
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  S2: You know, I loved Nashville, but when I left, it
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  S2: became cool. I mean, I guess it was becoming cool.
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  S2: So we moved from Nashville. It was the funniest thing.
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  S2: So if we moved from Nashville to Chicago to lead
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  S2: the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton and, you know, like
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  S2: the number one place people were moving from, uh, to
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  S2: Nashville was Chicago. So we went like the, it was
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  S2: like all these u-hauls coming down 65. We were going
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  S2: up 65. Uh, but we do, we love, we raised
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  S2: our kids there. Um, not you're probably in the cool
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  S2: side of Nashville. The cool side is, you know, Brentwood
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  S2: and Franklin and Spring Hill and all that. I was
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  S2: up in Hendersonville, which was kind of old. You know,
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  S2: the Oak Ridge Boys came to my church. Ricky Skaggs,
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  S2: I was their pastor, you know, for a season. But
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  S2: it's a different vibe than the cool side of Nashville.
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  S2: And you're, you're, are you in the city city or
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  S2: where are you?
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  S3: Yeah, I would not, uh, put the word cool as
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  S3: a label on Brentwood, where we live. It's, uh, I
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  S3: would say the taxes are high. Yeah. And, uh, we've
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  S3: got really good schools, and it's lovely. We've got a
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  S3: lot of parks and hiking trails and such, but the
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  S3: cool places tend to be in Davidson County more, uh,
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  S3: you know, more into the city, I think.
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  S2: You see, I think that's changed though, because like when
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  S2: I was there, all the cool people were in Brentwood.
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  S2: But now I think the city's kind of rebirthed and
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  S2: I get it, I get it.
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  S3: It's it's yeah, I think all the, the, the Christian
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  S3: cool people are in Franklin Franklin, uh, that's sort of
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  S3: a hotbed for Christian influencers and such.
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  S2: Yeah. One of the guests on this show, Henry Cloud.
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  S2: I was really irritated because Henry Henry's been like, he's
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  S2: Biola grad. He's been connected with us in California forever.
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  S2: And he just, you know, he moved to Nashville. You know,
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  S2: I just want to say to all our listeners, you know,
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  S2: we're 250 outlets from coast to coast. You can still
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  S2: be a Christian and not move to Nashville. I just
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  S2: wanted to get that out there. And Henry, Henry, I
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  S2: miss you. So he was he was a great neighbor.
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  S2: I mean, not literally a neighbor, but. All right. So
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  S2: we're going to talk about your book and, and again, you're,
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  S2: I mean, you're sort of like stepping into this space
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  S2: in a beautiful way. I really enjoyed the book. I mean,
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  S2: I read it a while ago. Did you? I'm trying
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  S2: to remember when I read it. When, when was the
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  S2: book out? It's not like just out.
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  S3: Yeah. It was released with Zondervan in early June. I
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  S3: think it was like the first week of June.
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  S2: Yeah. So my my recollection is collapsed. Anything that happened
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  S2: from June and July. So yeah, yeah. So it's funny because,
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  S2: you know, they give you for those of you who
• 4:47
  S2: are new listeners, I had a major health thing. Ten
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  S2: days in the hospital, some surgery. And anyway, so I
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  S2: forget a lot of things, but I remember reading through
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  S2: and being thankful for some of the emphasis. I mean,
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  S2: you really, I love I mean, the Mercy King sort
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  S2: of gives it away in a sense. It's how the
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  S2: kindness of Jesus heals your sin, shame, and weakness. But
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  S2: I want to what brought you to this kind of thing?
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  S2: I mean, I know, you know, I think of you
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  S2: as kind of a I don't know if you're a disciple.
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  S2: I mean, you're mentored by Tim Keller. Um, your, you know,
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  S2: I mean, I see some of the Mercy ministry stuff here,
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  S2: but you take it a step further in rooting it
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  S2: in the person of Christ. So unpack that for us.
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  S3: Mhm. Yeah. And I appreciate that. I think that really
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  S3: what it boiled down to for me, uh, and this
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  S3: was my seventh book project and my first six books, uh,
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  S3: just to give you a sense of how life was
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  S3: going for me, my first six were written in about
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  S3: seven years while while pastoring a 3500 person church, traveling
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  S3: the country, keynoting Denoting conferences, etc. and, um. That sounds
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  S3: really nice on the surface, but bottom line, I was
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  S3: what polite people call a workaholic. Uh, and I was
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  S3: what therapist would call a work addict. And I really
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  S3: was a junkie for productivity, for churning out stuff, uh,
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  S3: for working in places and serving in places like New
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  S3: York City and Nashville, that that was an important core
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  S3: value to me in ways that it's not anymore. Um,
• 6:24
  S3: but when push comes to shove, it, it, it, it
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  S3: drove me into the ground and, and, uh, there was
• 6:31
  S3: sort of a reckoning in my own personal life, uh, where,
• 6:36
  S3: you know, all the optics are great, but I'm anxious.
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  S3: I've got insomnia. I'm angry and irritated, uh, easily. I
• 6:46
  S3: bleed out sideways in different ways. So the people around
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  S3: me that I care about and, um, and so it
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  S3: led to a lot of counseling, uh, with, uh, my
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  S3: somebody I'll be thankful for forever. Uh, from Murfreesboro, a
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  S3: counselor named Chip Dodd. And, uh, a lot of Chip's
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  S3: fingerprints are, are in this book. I think I might
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  S3: have dedicated it to him. Or maybe I dedicated it
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  S3: to Donald Miller, uh, who was a big part of
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  S3: my recovery from that season as well. I can't remember,
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  S3: but bottom line, it really is, uh, you know, if you,
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  S3: if you, if you take the, the ragamuffin gospel by
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  S3: Brennan Manning apply, you know, uh, reformed Protestant theology to it, uh, it's,
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  S3: it's my attempt at my own version of the ragamuffin gospel.
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  S3: But I would also encourage your readers to start with
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  S3: Manning because I don't think he is paralleled, uh, with
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  S3: that kind of book, but, but probably more self-disclosure in
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  S3: this one than any of the ones I wrote before. But,
• 7:47
  S3: but really just, uh, you know, wanted to, to put
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  S3: on paper, um, some of my experience and some of
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  S3: the things that I've learned through, um, crashing and burning
• 7:59
  S3: as a workaholic and, um, it's not a book about workaholism, but,
• 8:05
  S3: but a lot of those themes I think are in
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  S3: there in a book that is essentially for people who
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  S3: are trying to contend with their weariness and trying to
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  S3: follow Christ and internalize how much God loves them, uh, which,
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  S3: which is kind of hard to do.
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  S2: Yeah. No, I, and I think it is deeply personal. And,
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  S2: you know, you went through some struggles. You're pretty transparent
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  S2: about some of those. Uh, I mean, again, I, I
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  S2: don't know, the last time we were in a room together,
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  S2: it might have been at Saddleback. We were both doing
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  S2: preaching at Saddleback, I think. I mean, that's.
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  S3: Uh, it was actually you, it was you preaching at
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  S3: Park Church. Uh, we did meet at Saddleback when you
• 8:40
  S3: and I did, I guess back to back pandemic sermons
• 8:43
  S3: where they were recording those. But but I think the
• 8:46
  S3: last time I saw you was in Chicago, uh, when
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  S3: Patti and I visited Park Church, knowing that you would
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  S3: be preaching. Oh. How funny. Uh, I got to talk
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  S3: to you and meet Donna and all of that.
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  S2: That's so funny, because I'm preaching tomorrow at Park Church.
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  S2: So that's fun. I do remember that. Now. I do
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  S2: remember that.
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  S3: Yeah. We're gonna we'll fly out to Chicago and do
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  S3: it and visit again. Yeah. We'll hop on a red
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  S3: eye tonight so we can hear you tomorrow.
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  S2: Oh, no, don't do that. I don't think you dedicated
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  S2: the book to Donald Miller. I think you dedicated it
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  S2: to the wounded, the weary, and the waiting. So I
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  S2: could be wrong. But that's what the I just googled
• 9:17
  S2: to see because I didn't remember who did get it
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  S2: to you.
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  S3: Yeah, it's dedicated to Don, man. Is it? It is.
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  S3: Is it in the in the print version and the
• 9:24
  S3: print version, you may have gotten a digital version, but
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  S3: the print version is dedicated.
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  S2: Like the blue, like jazz. Donald Miller who's now, you know,
• 9:31
  S2: the marketing guru. That's fascinating.
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  S3: Yeah, yeah. Storybrand. Yeah.
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  S2: Storybrand. Yeah, yeah. He seems like a fascinating guy.
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  S3: Fascinating guy. Well, Don is singularly responsible for what I'm
• 9:41
  S3: doing now pastorally and professionally. I love that, you know,
• 9:44
  S3: we can get into that story later if you want,
• 9:46
  S3: but but yeah, good friend.
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  S2: I love it. Okay. So, so part of the key that,
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  S2: I mean, there's several things in there that stood out
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  S2: to me. One is the, the focus on idols. You know, that, that, that,
• 9:56
  S2: that I think that's that reformed background, that Tim Keller background, maybe, uh,
• 10:00
  S2: coming out there. But I was really encouraged by the
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  S2: theme of, uh, rest from performance now again. Mhm. They
• 10:08
  S2: tell me I'm supposed to just ask questions and not
• 10:10
  S2: not share a little personally, but but for me, I'm
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  S2: going to do it anyway. Uh, because it's my show
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  S2: and I'm here in downtown Chicago, so my team's looking
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  S2: at me and they're not freaking out. So for me,
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  S2: you know, I, my identity, like my professional identity, not
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  S2: my identity in Christ, but my professional identity has largely
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  S2: been I have a large capacity to do multiple things
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  S2: like yours. And then I was a public speaker, and
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  S2: I guess I still am to some degree. I mentioned
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  S2: some things I'm doing, but man, the last few months
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  S2: like that identity and really an uncertainty, like it's not
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  S2: certain how much I will recover. Matter of fact, because the,
• 10:43
  S2: the AI models say I have a 30% chance of
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  S2: full recovery. But so and then, you know. So travel
• 10:49
  S2: becomes questionable. Like me being a public speaker, like I,
• 10:53
  S2: when I walk up to a, to a, to a
• 10:55
  S2: stage or a platform, you know, I mean, everybody knows
• 10:57
  S2: I'm on a cane and I'm, you know, I need
• 10:59
  S2: a stool and, and it hurts. So part of it
• 11:02
  S2: is like, what is my identity? And it's really allowed
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  S2: me to rest more in my identity in Christ. So
• 11:08
  S2: if you don't mind, talk a little bit about, you know,
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  S2: kind of laying down, I'm using your language, the exhausting
• 11:14
  S2: demands of self-reliance, and take up Christ's gentle, freeing yoke.
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  S2: Talk to me about that. And then we're going to
• 11:21
  S2: invite people to call in and with their questions and
• 11:22
  S2: their comments.
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  S3: Yeah. Uh, I mean, just, uh, personally, uh, again, I,
• 11:29
  S3: I was, I was charging hard for 30 years and, uh,
• 11:35
  S3: sort of reached the pinnacle of that when we arrived
• 11:38
  S3: to Nashville for a revitalization work. At the time, it
• 11:42
  S3: was a church in significant decline, but but also strategically
• 11:48
  S3: located with plenty of possibility. And, um, it took off. Uh,
• 11:54
  S3: when we got here and sort of brought the Redeemer
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  S3: model to that church and, uh, it grew, grew, grew.
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  S3: And I think the, the pace of the growth, uh,
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  S3: really outpaced, um, um, what it takes to build infrastructure to,
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  S3: to accommodate growth and, and to accommodate especially and minister
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  S3: well and faithfully to the people, uh, that represent that growth. And, um,
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  S3: essentially it, you know, long story even longer, uh, and
• 12:26
  S3: I think I cover a good bit of this in
• 12:28
  S3: the intro of the book. But, but, uh, I wore
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  S3: myself out and, uh, I had people warning me. I
• 12:36
  S3: had counselors warning me. I had elders warning me, telling
• 12:39
  S3: me to slow down. I never took a day. I
• 12:41
  S3: never took a day's vacation in my first few years
• 12:44
  S3: serving there. And the church had generously given me, you know,
• 12:48
  S3: four weeks vacation, two weeks study, leave. I never took
• 12:51
  S3: any of it, man. And instead I used those vacation
• 12:55
  S3: days to go speak at conferences and to write books. And,
• 12:59
  S3: you know, push comes to shove. At the end of
• 13:02
  S3: the day, I was trying to prove something to the universe.
• 13:05
  S3: And it didn't even didn't even realize it. Uh, and, um,
• 13:10
  S3: you know, a lot of family of origin stuff and
• 13:12
  S3: childhood stuff that you hear about in counselors offices. But,
• 13:15
  S3: but I was trying to work some stuff out, uh,
• 13:18
  S3: and didn't even realize it. And when you're doing that
• 13:21
  S3: in the name of ministry, uh, it's really easy to justify. Uh, and, and,
• 13:27
  S3: you know, you can talk about how, you know, Jesus
• 13:30
  S3: and Paul and the others just, you know, and kind
• 13:32
  S3: of put yourself in the same category of people who
• 13:34
  S3: spent themselves for the gospel when really I was spending
• 13:38
  S3: myself to build an identity, uh, to make a name,
• 13:43
  S3: to prove. To prove the inner critic wrong. And um.
• 13:48
  S3: And it eventually caught up.
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  S2: As it does with so many of us as well.
• 13:52
  S2: And our phone number, if you'd like to join in
• 13:54
  S2: and have a conversation with us, is (800) 600-9624, that's (800) 600-9624.
• 14:02
  S2: We're talking about The Mercy King by Scott Sauls. We're
• 14:05
  S2: going to take your calls as well. We love talking
• 14:06
  S2: about how you've encountered the mercy of Christ. How do
• 14:08
  S2: you walk in that confidence, that of the deep love
• 14:11
  S2: of Christ and the rest that's there, and your identity
• 14:14
  S2: in Christ and more? Again, 800, 609 624. All right,
• 14:28
  S2: we're back. Ed Stetzer live. I'm actually in the studio here,
• 14:30
  S2: and I gave out the wrong phone number. I've been
• 14:32
  S2: doing this for years, but I come in here and
• 14:34
  S2: just so you know, we just had share on our moody, uh,
• 14:38
  S2: on our moody stations. And everywhere we go, there's a
• 14:41
  S2: phone number. The same phone number here, here, here, here, here.
• 14:43
  S2: And it's all wrong. So the right phone number is (877) 548-3675,
• 14:49
  S2: which you think I'd know. I have that number memorized. Lisa,
• 14:51
  S2: I'm a failure at life, and I forgive. Please forgive me,
• 14:54
  S2: but Lisa brought it in on a sheet of paper,
• 14:55
  S2: like a sheet of paper, like old school. Like a
• 14:57
  S2: torn sheet of paper. She brought it in and said,
• 14:59
  S2: you got to use this number. So I'd love to
• 15:00
  S2: hear from you. I'd love to hear from you. You know,
• 15:02
  S2: we're talking about Scott Saul with Scott Saul and about
• 15:04
  S2: Scott Saul's journey, because The Mercy King is both my autobiographical.
• 15:08
  S2: But also, I mean, it's kind of a exploration of
• 15:12
  S2: how Jesus personal ministry, mercy, excuse me, personal mercy impacts us.
• 15:17
  S2: You know, sin, shame and weakness. Um, and so maybe
• 15:20
  S2: I would love to hear from you. Like, how has
• 15:22
  S2: that been real in your life? Or maybe you have
• 15:24
  S2: a question about how to receive that as well. Our
• 15:26
  S2: number is (877) 548-3675. Don't be fooled by that number. That
• 15:32
  S2: is the number to give. By the way. So if
• 15:33
  S2: you want to do that you could but (877) 548-3675. Okay.
• 15:39
  S2: I really wanted to come more to this rest from
• 15:42
  S2: performance because you talked about that inner voice, that inner
• 15:44
  S2: critic for me. It was my father's approval. And what
• 15:50
  S2: was interesting was my father and I, we very tumultuous childhood. Um,
• 15:54
  S2: my dad was, uh, well, he would say he was
• 15:56
  S2: a drunk and later sobered up and never, you know,
• 15:59
  S2: he was athletic. I was a nerd, you know, never
• 16:02
  S2: could please my father in my childhood. And later, like,
• 16:05
  S2: we became super close. And he was proud. He didn't
• 16:08
  S2: always understand. He wasn't a Christian. He didn't really understand, uh,
• 16:12
  S2: this idea of me being a church planter and more,
• 16:14
  S2: but eventually just, you know, he was so proud when I,
• 16:16
  S2: when I was appointed to a role at Wycliffe Hall
• 16:19
  S2: in Oxford, he told all his friends I was an
• 16:20
  S2: Oxford professor, which technically is not true. I'm just a
• 16:23
  S2: visiting scholar. But but I mean, just full of pride
• 16:26
  S2: for his sons, both of his sons. And yet for me,
• 16:29
  S2: I still, you know, when someone asked me, I did
• 16:31
  S2: my second doctorate and they said, why do you have two,
• 16:33
  S2: two masters and two doctors? I'm trying to impress my father,
• 16:36
  S2: who but at that time was already impressed. We just
• 16:38
  S2: have these childhood tapes that keep playing over and over
• 16:41
  S2: and over again. So, you know, you talk about the
• 16:45
  S2: receiving unshakable identity in Christ, contrasting that to the worth
• 16:50
  S2: kind of earned by achievement. And that's sort of your story.
• 16:52
  S2: Like you were driven and I, like, I knew you
• 16:55
  S2: and I had no idea. To me, you just seemed
• 16:57
  S2: like a high achiever, you know? But all this stuff
• 16:59
  S2: was going on. So tell me about the journey of
• 17:02
  S2: discovery there, of the right understanding of our identity in Christ.
• 17:08
  S3: Yeah. Well, I guess it's important, Ed, to to say
• 17:12
  S3: first that achievement is a good thing. Yeah. It's not
• 17:16
  S3: achievement and hard work or having a healthy centered core.
• 17:22
  S3: You can actually have both. And, you know, the gospel
• 17:26
  S3: actually encourages us to, to work with all of our hearts, but,
• 17:31
  S3: but to work with all of our hearts from a place, uh,
• 17:35
  S3: you know, from that internal equilibrium of the soul that
• 17:39
  S3: that comes to us in Christ. And and for me,
• 17:42
  S3: what it boils down to editor is being able to
• 17:46
  S3: internalize the theology that I've been preaching to other people
• 17:50
  S3: for decades, and to internalize the grace that I have been, uh,
• 17:55
  S3: helping others, uh, you know, live out in their own lives. And,
• 18:00
  S3: and what it boils down to is that your judgment
• 18:03
  S3: day and my judgment day as a Christian, God has
• 18:07
  S3: squarely and firmly and forever relocated our judgment day from
• 18:13
  S3: the future to the past. Uh, when Jesus said on
• 18:16
  S3: the cross, it is finished. Uh. It's done. Uh, it
• 18:20
  S3: means that there is nothing left for anyone to contribute
• 18:25
  S3: to our right standing with God. And if we are
• 18:29
  S3: in the right with God based on the perfect record
• 18:33
  S3: of Jesus Christ, based on the complete forgiveness for. every
• 18:37
  S3: which way that we have fallen short of his glory. Uh,
• 18:41
  S3: if that is true, and if the work is finished,
• 18:44
  S3: then there's nothing else for us to contribute, and therefore,
• 18:49
  S3: really nothing else to worry about. We're completely forgiven. We're
• 18:52
  S3: completely blameless, considered blameless in the sight of God because
• 18:56
  S3: of Jesus. And we're completely loved. And that is absolutely
• 19:02
  S3: and 100% true on our very best day and on
• 19:05
  S3: our very worst day, and in our very best seasons
• 19:09
  S3: and in our very worst seasons. And I think the
• 19:12
  S3: meaning of life really, uh, and the, the path to
• 19:16
  S3: joy and happiness and flourishing boils down to the degree
• 19:20
  S3: to which, uh, we actually believe these things to be true,
• 19:24
  S3: not just in general, but about us.
• 19:27
  S2: Yeah. You divide the book into, I don't know, movements is, uh,
• 19:32
  S2: the longings we carry, the hurts we endure, and the
• 19:35
  S2: hope that holds us. And, you know, so there's you're
• 19:38
  S2: kind of calling us to a journey. And that journey
• 19:42
  S2: is kind of help us navigate this search for belonging
• 19:45
  S2: and purpose. And I love that. Uh, matter of fact,
• 19:48
  S2: let me say to, I haven't mentioned this, but the, the,
• 19:50
  S2: of course, the title of the book is The Mercy
• 19:51
  S2: King How the Kindness of Jesus Heals Your Sin, shame,
• 19:54
  S2: and Weakness. But we have copies of the book we're
• 19:55
  S2: going to give away to thoughtful, insightful callers, which is
• 19:58
  S2: the callers that Ed Stetzer live are always thoughtful and insightful.
• 20:01
  S2: So maybe you got a question about how to how
• 20:04
  S2: to rest in who you are in Christ, or how
• 20:06
  S2: to experience the mercy of Jesus in your life. Or
• 20:09
  S2: maybe you've got examples of that. Our number is (877) 548-3675, again, (877) 548-3675.
• 20:20
  S2: So okay, so partly because I know new you, I mean,
• 20:23
  S2: we journeyed on some things together. Again, you look to
• 20:27
  S2: me and this is where it's kind of hard, you know,
• 20:29
  S2: maybe I'm not the best judge of people. You look
• 20:31
  S2: to me like you had it all together, Scott. Like
• 20:34
  S2: you didn't you didn't look like a guy who was frantic,
• 20:37
  S2: who was, you know, trying to win some performance. So,
• 20:41
  S2: I mean, you know, how do we how do we like,
• 20:44
  S2: I guess you didn't even know it in yourself until this,
• 20:46
  S2: you know, crash and burn moment. So, so is there
• 20:49
  S2: any hope for some awareness of ourselves and being too
• 20:53
  S2: caught up in these things?
• 20:56
  S3: Yeah. Great question. And I think it's important for anybody
• 21:01
  S3: who identifies with the things you and I are talking
• 21:04
  S3: about and who identifies with, you know, working out stuff
• 21:09
  S3: from the past and stuff that that we're carrying, it's
• 21:15
  S3: important to remember that everybody is a mixed bag of
• 21:19
  S3: glory and dirt of, of. Beauty and ashes. And, uh,
• 21:27
  S3: I just think about how the theologians talk about how
• 21:31
  S3: we are currently living in between the already and the
• 21:37
  S3: not yet. Uh, meaning that we are already, uh, secure
• 21:41
  S3: in Christ. We are already all of those things forgiven, blameless,
• 21:45
  S3: and righteous in the sight of God and completely beloved. Uh,
• 21:48
  S3: we're as loved as we will be 10,000 years from
• 21:52
  S3: now in glory. Uh, those things are true. So that's
• 21:56
  S3: the already Christ is finished. The work and the not yet. Uh,
• 22:01
  S3: we are not complete, uh, in, uh, becoming the people
• 22:05
  S3: that God has created us to ultimately and fully and
• 22:08
  S3: completely become in our glorified selves. And we are also
• 22:12
  S3: not complete, uh, in our apprehension of, of these wonderful truths. Uh, and,
• 22:20
  S3: you know, Paul talks about the old man and the
• 22:22
  S3: new man. He talks about the flesh and the spirit
• 22:24
  S3: and how, uh, even in himself, the apostle Paul, these,
• 22:29
  S3: these realities are, were at war within him, he said. Uh, where?
• 22:33
  S3: In Romans seven, he can talk about his dissatisfaction and
• 22:37
  S3: his coveting and his discontentment, and then he jumps to
• 22:42
  S3: Romans eight as the answer for that. There is therefore
• 22:44
  S3: now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
• 22:47
  S3: And then and then he goes on later in Romans
• 22:50
  S3: eight to say, nothing in all creation can ever separate
• 22:52
  S3: us from the love of Christ. And so I think
• 22:55
  S3: just taking Paul's example, we need to keep preaching the
• 22:59
  S3: gospel sermon to our own hearts. Uh, that that what
• 23:03
  S3: we feel is not always true and what we think
• 23:07
  S3: is not always true. And we need to just keep
• 23:09
  S3: bringing ourselves back to the things that the Lord has
• 23:12
  S3: brought us to. Uh, and that's his forgiveness and, and,
• 23:15
  S3: and his, his perfect righteousness on our behalf and his
• 23:19
  S3: everlasting love.
• 23:21
  S2: And I love the theological depth you bring to this
• 23:22
  S2: conversation as well. It's obvious that that you're pointing people
• 23:26
  S2: to Jesus, pointing people to the gospel. Um, and again,
• 23:28
  S2: we're going to, we're going to take your calls. Just
• 23:31
  S2: stay with us. We're going to get to your calls
• 23:32
  S2: in just a minute. But (877) 548-3675 is our phone number (877) 548-3675.
• 23:39
  S2: About two minutes left in this segment. Scott. So talk
• 23:42
  S2: to us a little bit about this. I'm going to
• 23:44
  S2: quote you. Jesus is not wanting you to fix yourself
• 23:47
  S2: before coming to him. He's already running in your direction.
• 23:50
  S2: You know, the whole that song When God Ran, there's
• 23:53
  S2: this idea that he's coming to you with that grace
• 23:58
  S2: and mercy, and that does change our posture. I mean,
• 24:00
  S2: he does say, come to me, all who are weary,
• 24:02
  S2: and I will give you rest. But he's also moving
• 24:04
  S2: toward us. Talk to us about that in about two minutes.
• 24:07
  S3: Sure. Uh, it says in the Psalms, this is this
• 24:11
  S3: is King David, the man after God's own heart, complicated
• 24:15
  S3: man himself with his own father's story. Right. Uh, driven man.
• 24:19
  S3: He became king of Israel. Uh, and David said, surely
• 24:27
  S3: goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of
• 24:31
  S3: my life. And you know, we talk in our book.
• 24:33
  S3: I talk about in in my writing what it means
• 24:36
  S3: to be a follower of Christ. And I think the
• 24:39
  S3: first thing to the first thing about being a healthy
• 24:43
  S3: follower of Christ is the realization that Christ was following
• 24:46
  S3: you long before you started following him. You know, Ephesians
• 24:51
  S3: tells us before the foundations of the earth were formed
• 24:56
  S3: in love, God had already predestined us to be holy
• 25:00
  S3: and blameless in his sight. Uh, and, and, uh, you know,
• 25:05
  S3: wrapped his heart around us before we were even born. Uh, and,
• 25:11
  S3: you know, sort of fixed our destination, determined our destination
• 25:15
  S3: before we were even born. He loved us before we were,
• 25:18
  S3: before we even existed. Uh, and, you know, God lives
• 25:21
  S3: outside of space and time. And, you know, of course
• 25:24
  S3: you can get into the Calvinist versus Arminian debates and
• 25:27
  S3: all of that. But but the bottom line is, I
• 25:30
  S3: don't think any anybody would deny that God made the
• 25:33
  S3: first move.
• 25:35
  S2: Love that. We're getting into a conversation with Scott Sauls,
• 25:37
  S2: our number (877) 548-3675. We got a bunch of you lined
• 25:41
  S2: up on the phones, but still room for you (877) 548-3675.
• 25:47
  S2: The book is the Mercy King Scott Sauls and we're
• 25:50
  S2: going to jump to your calls right when we get
• 25:52
  S2: back (877) 548-3675. Hey we're back at Stetzer live. I'm here
• 26:09
  S2: live in the studio. I'm looking at Merle engineer Lisa
• 26:13
  S2: is is our associate producer. And I don't know who's
• 26:15
  S2: on the phone. Is it Omar? I don't know who
• 26:17
  S2: that was. That was on someone's on the phones. And
• 26:19
  S2: so thank you for them as well. Leo's on the phones.
• 26:21
  S2: Thank you. And so good to be here in downtown
• 26:24
  S2: Chicago with the team normally I'm on broadcasting from sunny
• 26:27
  S2: Southern California, but here it is. Yesterday I got poured on.
• 26:30
  S2: I was walking back from dinner with the Moody Church
• 26:34
  S2: pastor and his wife, Phillip and Krista Miller. I had
• 26:37
  S2: the privilege of having them as doctoral students at my
• 26:40
  S2: program at Wheaton College. They heard him in there. So
• 26:42
  S2: we went to a lovely dinner, started walking back, and
• 26:45
  S2: just got poured on. So 45 degrees and raining. And Scott,
• 26:48
  S2: this is not I am weak. I live in Southern
• 26:51
  S2: California now, I am weak. Anyway, we got our phone
• 26:54
  S2: calls ready to go (877) 548-3675. We're talking about, you know,
• 27:00
  S2: issues of of rest and mercy and workaholism and more
• 27:04
  S2: in some of the calls relate to that. Let's go
• 27:06
  S2: to Michael first in Boca Raton. Michael, you're live on
• 27:09
  S2: the air. Jump right in.
• 27:11
  S4: Good afternoon. How are you?
• 27:12
  S2: Good, sir. Please go right ahead with your question or comment.
• 27:15
  S4: Okay? Yes. Thank you for taking the phone call. My
• 27:17
  S4: name is Michael. I'm a single father. I am currently
• 27:22
  S4: working multiple delivery apps. It first started with just part
• 27:26
  S4: time and slowly but surely, it kind of led to
• 27:28
  S4: full time. And I've been doing this. I've lost track
• 27:33
  S4: of how much time has actually passed, but multiple years
• 27:36
  S4: and haven't even taken a vacation.
• 27:38
  S2: Mhm.
• 27:38
  S4: I could become a workaholic or a work addict, as
• 27:42
  S4: Scott has been talking about, and I could definitely use
• 27:46
  S4: some help with the transition of out of this.
• 27:48
  S2: Yeah. Let me ask you a question, Michael, related to that.
• 27:49
  S2: So are you working the your multiple apps? So when
• 27:52
  S2: you do that, of course, you can just keep going, going, going.
• 27:54
  S2: Is it because you need it to survive and pay
• 27:56
  S2: the bills? Is it because you just are driven by workaholism?
• 27:59
  S2: I mean, give us a little bit of your motivation
• 28:01
  S2: quickly and then we'll jump into Scott.
• 28:03
  S4: Yeah, I think first and foremost, it's being a single
• 28:05
  S4: dad with very little help. I pretty much am forced. Yeah. Um,
• 28:10
  S4: but I think that there comes some times where I
• 28:12
  S4: might have a possibility of taking a break, but then
• 28:15
  S4: I just feel like I just like I can't.
• 28:17
  S2: Okay. That's fair, that's fair.
• 28:19
  S4: I don't take any rest. I don't take any vacations.
• 28:21
  S4: And I just keep going like round the clock.
• 28:23
  S2: Yeah, let's let's, let's, let's have Scott weigh into. And
• 28:25
  S2: Scott and thank you, Michael, for calling. If you hold on,
• 28:27
  S2: we're going to give you a copy of The Mercy King.
• 28:29
  S2: And just after you're here, Scott, our producer, will come
• 28:32
  S2: on and do that. So if I could divide Michael's
• 28:35
  S2: question to two things, Scott. One is like, what do
• 28:37
  S2: you say to the person who has to just to survive?
• 28:40
  S2: I mean, this is it's a difficult economy. And it's, it's,
• 28:44
  S2: you know, he's also saying we're in the second part
• 28:45
  S2: where he talks about where he keeps working when he
• 28:47
  S2: doesn't have to. But what about the person who just
• 28:49
  S2: has to how do they find rest?
• 28:52
  S3: Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a really important distinction.
• 28:57
  S3: Because I, Michael, I did have the option, uh, in
• 29:02
  S3: ways that it sounds like you don't to slow myself down. Uh,
• 29:07
  S3: I had a lot of unnecessary, uh, things on my
• 29:11
  S3: calendar that did not need to be there. I said
• 29:14
  S3: a lot of yeses to things that I was not
• 29:17
  S3: required to say yes to. And that's very different Then, uh,
• 29:23
  S3: somebody who's carrying all of the things that you're carrying
• 29:26
  S3: right now. Single father, uh, big job. Uh, I presume
• 29:32
  S3: that you don't have a team that can take the
• 29:36
  S3: load off of you based on what you shared. It
• 29:38
  S3: sounds like you're working solo primarily. Is that. Is that true? Michael?
• 29:42
  S2: Uh, let me. I have to click back on so
• 29:44
  S2: we can go back to Michael. Okay. Michael. Go ahead.
• 29:45
  S2: Is that is that true? Michael.
• 29:47
  S4: Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
• 29:49
  S2: Okay.
• 29:49
  S3: Yeah. So so, uh, it's hard because, um, you know,
• 29:55
  S3: I know, for example, I'll give you an example. I,
• 29:58
  S3: I have plenty of friends in my life who have
• 30:02
  S3: children with special needs and disabilities. And it's, it's a 24, seven, uh,
• 30:09
  S3: they're never going to leave the home. We will be
• 30:11
  S3: raising them until we die and, and caring for them
• 30:15
  S3: until we die kind of situation around the clock. And
• 30:19
  S3: that's just illustrative of the fact that sometimes, uh, sometimes a, uh,
• 30:28
  S3: a schedule like that or a life like that is
• 30:31
  S3: something we can't do anything about. And, and we, we
• 30:34
  S3: take what the Lord has entrusted to us and it
• 30:36
  S3: becomes about, you know, the question, what does it mean
• 30:40
  S3: to have a, a rested heart, an unwearied heart, uh,
• 30:45
  S3: even while being so fully engaged with so much responsibility. And, uh,
• 30:51
  S3: you know, I just think about Jesus. I mean, he went,
• 30:53
  S3: you know, early morning to late at night sometimes he
• 30:56
  S3: stayed up all night in prayer. I mean, he was
• 30:58
  S3: a hard charger, uh, who also knew how to rest.
• 31:02
  S3: And of course, he was Jesus. He was the Son
• 31:04
  S3: of God. He had a perfection that we don't, but
• 31:07
  S3: he was always leading his disciples in the same direction. Uh,
• 31:11
  S3: you know, the very ones who were following him and
• 31:13
  S3: going to give their lives completely for his sake. Uh, he,
• 31:18
  S3: those are the, Those were his first audience when he said,
• 31:21
  S3: come to me, all you who are weary and burdened.
• 31:23
  S3: It comes with the the assumption that your life is
• 31:26
  S3: such that you're going to be weary and burdened. And
• 31:29
  S3: so the. The trick is to. And really, the call
• 31:33
  S3: to discipleship and to wisdom is to figure out what
• 31:37
  S3: does it mean to rest while I am. AM doing
• 31:41
  S3: what God has given me to do. And then maybe
• 31:45
  S3: some long term questions as well of what would it
• 31:48
  S3: take for me to get out of this situation? Is
• 31:52
  S3: it possible for me to, uh, to continue working with
• 31:58
  S3: my skill set, uh, and at my skill level, but
• 32:03
  S3: in an environment that won't crush my spirit. And for
• 32:08
  S3: a lot of solo people and entrepreneur people, that might
• 32:11
  S3: mean going to work for a large organization that has
• 32:16
  S3: administration that can absorb, uh, the minutia. That's, that's, you know,
• 32:22
  S3: sort of consuming your soul, uh, and give you a
• 32:26
  S3: more reasonable, um, you know, a more reasonable work week of,
• 32:30
  S3: you know, say 50 hours instead of 75 where you can,
• 32:34
  S3: you can do the thing that you're really passionate about
• 32:36
  S3: that got you into the work in the first place. Uh,
• 32:39
  S3: now with that comes an exchange. You lose some freedom,
• 32:43
  S3: you lose scheduling flexibility. The income may be different. Um,
• 32:48
  S3: but it also gives you back time with your kids
• 32:50
  S3: and time to develop some hobbies, maybe to read some
• 32:53
  S3: fiction to be meaningfully involved with a local church, uh, etc.. But, uh,
• 32:59
  S3: I guess the last thing I would say is it
• 33:01
  S3: takes a process to get there from here because you've
• 33:04
  S3: got the realities of needing to, you know, to feed
• 33:08
  S3: your kids and support them and, and all the rest. And,
• 33:12
  S3: and so I don't envy the situation. Uh, but maybe
• 33:15
  S3: we just, X, you know, encourage some exploration about what
• 33:19
  S3: other options might be for using your skill set.
• 33:22
  S2: It's interesting too, that, you know, you look back, you know,
• 33:25
  S2: you know, since the, the rise of the labor movement,
• 33:28
  S2: you know, before that, like people worked, you know, 80
• 33:31
  S2: hour weeks and, you know, we think of the 40
• 33:34
  S2: hour week now, but that's not the way people thought
• 33:36
  S2: for thousands of years. So, and yet some of the
• 33:39
  S2: great saints of old were people who were deeply engaged
• 33:43
  S2: in other things, but also found time for space and rest.
• 33:47
  S2: And so I think and of course, keeping a Sabbath and,
• 33:49
  S2: and rhythms of prayer and rest are part of that.
• 33:53
  S2: But it's an interesting thing, I think about my, you know,
• 33:55
  S2: your you were a New York City pastor. You know,
• 33:57
  S2: my great grandfather and my grandfather built a lot of
• 34:00
  S2: those stone buildings on the Upper East Side. And they worked,
• 34:04
  S2: you know, 70 hours a week. So yeah. So it's interesting.
• 34:07
  S2: I think, I think, you know, this idea of mercy. And,
• 34:10
  S2: you know, of course, the book is The Mercy King
• 34:12
  S2: How the Kindness of Jesus Heals Your Sin, shame and weakness.
• 34:15
  S2: That's real. And that's true even if you don't have
• 34:17
  S2: a vacation each each year as well. Good. Let's continue
• 34:20
  S2: with our calls as well. Let's go to let's go
• 34:24
  S2: to Raj in Oklahoma. Raj, you're live on the air.
• 34:27
  S2: Jump right in with your question or comment.
• 34:30
  S5: Uh, Pastor Scott, as a fellow workaholic, I'm a physician
• 34:34
  S5: in private practice, and I find myself getting caught up
• 34:38
  S5: in checking all the boxes. And I don't have much
• 34:41
  S5: margin for important things like health and family. Uh, my
• 34:45
  S5: question is, what was it that you found most helpful
• 34:50
  S5: early on when you realized you were a workaholic and
• 34:54
  S5: you had to make the tough decision of, of resigning
• 34:57
  S5: from the pastorship?
• 34:59
  S2: Oh, super, super. Raj, hold on a second. We're going
• 35:00
  S2: to give you a copy of The Mercy King. How
• 35:02
  S2: the kindness of Jesus Heals your sin, shame, and weakness.
• 35:05
  S2: In your case, Scott, you had a you had a,
• 35:07
  S2: you know, come to Jesus sort of moment. So talk
• 35:10
  S2: to us a little bit about that. But then, you know,
• 35:12
  S2: I mean, the bigger question is how do you recognize.
• 35:16
  S2: And how did you realize that you were a workaholic?
• 35:20
  S3: Yeah. You know, I realized I was a workaholic when people,
• 35:23
  S3: including my wife, were were calling me out on it. Uh, and,
• 35:29
  S3: you know, just to make a long story short, I just,
• 35:33
  S3: I reached a point where I, where I crashed and
• 35:36
  S3: burned and realized that that, uh, it, it would be
• 35:41
  S3: best for me, for my family and for the church, uh,
• 35:46
  S3: for me to step away and, uh, you know, wasn't
• 35:51
  S3: asked to leave, wasn't fired. Uh, none of that, you know,
• 35:55
  S3: did go through a season that involved some difficult conversations
• 35:59
  S3: around some of the fruit of my workaholism. Uh, so I,
• 36:02
  S3: you know, I don't want to, I don't want to
• 36:04
  S3: whitewash the story there. Uh, you know, I did bring some,
• 36:08
  S3: some difficulty to the table that affected other people. Uh,
• 36:11
  S3: but bottom line, my wife and I made the decision
• 36:15
  S3: to step away because, um, you know, it had we
• 36:20
  S3: had reached the point of being beyond recovery in the
• 36:24
  S3: current situation. And for me, that that meant stepping away
• 36:29
  S3: without a next thing to go to. And, uh, and
• 36:33
  S3: so there was some risk involved in that. Uh, the
• 36:35
  S3: story was very public and some of the things that
• 36:39
  S3: were said publicly online were true. Some of the things were,
• 36:44
  S3: were very gross misrepresentations and mischaracterizations of, of, of the story. Um,
• 36:51
  S3: and so bottom line, I just needed to go quiet and, and, um,
• 36:57
  S3: and that opened doors for other things to, to work, uh,
• 37:01
  S3: you know, in a more concentrated way with a smaller group.
• 37:04
  S3: My work now is, is concentrated with, with high achieving leaders.
• 37:08
  S3: And so I have about 40 leaders per year that
• 37:11
  S3: I pour into and do discipleship, work with and try
• 37:15
  S3: to help them not go down the road that I did.
• 37:18
  S3: But it really meant stepping away and, and at least
• 37:22
  S3: for a while, I don't know if God will. God
• 37:24
  S3: may call me back into local church ministry at some point.
• 37:27
  S3: We're very open to that. But but for at that time,
• 37:31
  S3: three years ago, I needed a change of scenery. My
• 37:33
  S3: wife needed a change of scenery, and we needed to
• 37:36
  S3: hit reset. And since that time, I've learned to roast
• 37:40
  S3: my own coffee. Uh, I make my own. I make
• 37:43
  S3: sourdough bread at home. Uh, I play disc golf, uh,
• 37:47
  S3: probably three days a week, which is a fun little hobby. Uh, and, and, uh,
• 37:53
  S3: I'm reading fiction now. You think it's weird until you
• 37:55
  S3: do it, man, that's what I thought until a couple
• 37:57
  S3: of guys invited me to do it with them. But
• 37:59
  S3: but but on that note, and I think this goes
• 38:01
  S3: back to, uh, you know, Raj, I appreciate your question. My, my,
• 38:06
  S3: my friendship, Dodd, that I mentioned earlier in this conversation,
• 38:11
  S3: says that he he he works with high achieving leaders.
• 38:13
  S3: And he says that something like 90% of his his
• 38:17
  S3: his therapy clients are pastors and physicians. And so I
• 38:21
  S3: noticed that, that Raj mentioned that he's a physician specifically
• 38:25
  S3: in private practice. And so private practice physicians aren't just
• 38:28
  S3: carrying the work of, of the healing arts. They're also
• 38:31
  S3: doing administration. They have to learn how to be accountants.
• 38:35
  S3: They're running a small team typically. And all that goes
• 38:38
  S3: with that, insurance premiums and everything else. It's exhausting. And, and,
• 38:43
  S3: you know, even to the point where you wonder, like
• 38:46
  S3: I did sometimes about getting into the pastorate, am I
• 38:48
  S3: still doing this for the reasons that I got into
• 38:51
  S3: it for in the first place? And, and, and, and, uh,
• 38:55
  S3: and so I, you know, the thing about disc golf and.
• 39:00
  S2: I feel like you're having to defend this now, but yes.
• 39:03
  S3: Well, I am an apologist for disc golf because it's cheap.
• 39:06
  S3: It only takes an hour and a half and it's
• 39:08
  S3: a lot of fun. Uh, but, but it forces me
• 39:12
  S3: to devote six hours a week to something besides working. Wow.
• 39:17
  S3: And and, um, you know, the Sabbath does that for
• 39:20
  S3: us as well. You know, God is so wise giving
• 39:23
  S3: us a full day to step away from our regular
• 39:26
  S3: vocational rhythms and to rest, replenish, receive from the Lord,
• 39:31
  S3: receive from life in the body of Christ and from
• 39:34
  S3: hopefully some good preaching and, and those sorts of things.
• 39:37
  S3: You know, God set those rhythms up of work and
• 39:39
  S3: rest for a reason.
• 39:41
  S2: We're going to turn our conversation with Scott Sauls. He
• 39:44
  S2: said in one interview, my addiction was acceptable. My addiction
• 39:46
  S2: got rewarded outside of the home. Um, friendships and personal life,
• 39:50
  S2: the stuff that made us human. My addiction got rewarded
• 39:52
  S2: with bonuses, bigger opportunities and invitations. We're going to talk
• 39:55
  S2: about that and your calls. (877) 548-3675. Our last segment we're
• 40:01
  S2: going to jump right in kind of a speed round (877) 548-3675.
• 40:16
  S2: All right, we're back at Stetzer live final segment. Been
• 40:19
  S2: here in the studio downtown Chicago. Beautiful facility here, the Chapman.
• 40:23
  S2: Chapman center. That's what we call this building, isn't it?
• 40:25
  S2: The Chapman Center. Yeah. And, uh, and yes, that Chapman,
• 40:28
  S2: the the, uh, the love languages guy. That's that's the
• 40:31
  S2: one that's named after, um, and having a great conversation. Just.
• 40:34
  S2: Karen Hendren's not here, our producer, but we're missing you, Karen.
• 40:37
  S2: Hope you're doing well. All right. We're going to get
• 40:39
  S2: to our calls, but got to ask you for for
• 40:41
  S2: you got to get right to the point on the calls.
• 40:43
  S2: And then we're going to have our, uh, Scott Sauls
• 40:46
  S2: who's a pastor type. So he answers biblically, theologically and longly,
• 40:51
  S2: we're going to ask for kind of a rapid fire
• 40:54
  S2: for all of us. Let's go first to Ellen in Indianapolis. Ellen,
• 40:56
  S2: you're live on the air. Jump right in, please.
• 40:58
  S6: I love you, love your guests. And your topic included. Uh,
• 41:02
  S6: I was to a very much a workaholic, uh, A
• 41:07
  S6: leader type of person and have had 42 surgeries on
• 41:11
  S6: a leg after a car accident and now have the
• 41:14
  S6: post Covid where I can't even sit up and sew
• 41:18
  S6: and very much dependent. And brother, I'm with you or
• 41:21
  S6: feel sorry for you with the leg thing. But imagine
• 41:24
  S6: if you you physical therapy is not healing and you're
• 41:29
  S6: going to 50 different doctors. They can't tell you what
• 41:31
  S6: better for you.
• 41:32
  S2: Wow.
• 41:33
  S6: I am clinging to the Word of God into our
• 41:35
  S6: merciful father and struggling quite hard at it. And I
• 41:40
  S6: think I very much would love to reading this book. Yeah. Uh,
• 41:44
  S6: the sights sound perfect. And, um, we need to help
• 41:49
  S6: those of us who that struggle with being in our
• 41:54
  S6: identity has been doing.
• 41:55
  S2: Yeah, for sure, for sure. That's a great way to
• 41:57
  S2: put it to Ellen. Thank you for your call. Hold
• 41:58
  S2: on just a second to we're going to give you
• 41:59
  S2: a copy of The Mercy King. How the Kindness of
• 42:01
  S2: Jesus Heals Your Sins, shame and weakness. Being doing what
• 42:04
  S2: a great contrast. Talk to us about that, Scott.
• 42:07
  S3: I mean, what comes to mind? Uh, Ellen, uh, first
• 42:11
  S3: of all, I'm so sorry about these burdens you're carrying.
• 42:14
  S3: It just sounds supremely difficult. Uh, but what comes to
• 42:18
  S3: mind when I hear you share your story is Jesus's
• 42:22
  S3: encounter with, uh, the bleeding woman in the Gospels. And, uh,
• 42:27
  S3: it says there that, that she had seen many, many
• 42:31
  S3: doctors and spent all of her life savings on health
• 42:36
  S3: care and nothing was working. And what struck me about
• 42:41
  S3: that was that, you know, she, she was essentially unseen
• 42:47
  S3: by the people in the community as she crawled to Jesus.
• 42:51
  S3: And Jesus just stops everything and zeroes in on this
• 42:56
  S3: woman and elevates her dignity and talks to the crowd
• 43:01
  S3: about her dignity And, uh, I suppose the only encouragement
• 43:07
  S3: that I can, can bring to the table based on that, uh,
• 43:10
  S3: that encounter is that we don't know what the future holds.
• 43:15
  S3: We don't know. We know that we will ultimately be
• 43:17
  S3: healed in the new heaven and the new earth completely.
• 43:20
  S3: And in a strange way, uh, our enjoyment of heaven will,
• 43:24
  S3: will coincide with, with how difficult things were here on earth. Uh,
• 43:29
  S3: but what, what strikes me about that encounter was the,
• 43:33
  S3: the immediate tenderness that Jesus gave to that woman and
• 43:39
  S3: the way that he saw her all the way down.
• 43:41
  S3: And just to recognize, uh, Ellen, dear Ellen, that Jesus
• 43:46
  S3: sees you as dear and his posture to you is
• 43:50
  S3: incredibly tender and compassionate. And man, just knowing that, knowing
• 43:55
  S3: of Jesus's tenderness and compassion, it gives me, uh, what
• 44:00
  S3: I need to get through the harder moments and seasons
• 44:03
  S3: of life.
• 44:04
  S2: Let's go to Penny in Alabama. Penny. Penny. You're live
• 44:06
  S2: on the air.
• 44:07
  S7: What Bible verse helps you find rest and peace?
• 44:12
  S2: Love that. What do you think, Scott?
• 44:14
  S3: Uh, I think I'd go back to Matthew 11 where
• 44:17
  S3: Jesus says, come to me. His generous invitation come to me,
• 44:20
  S3: all who are weary and burdened, and I will give
• 44:23
  S3: you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,
• 44:27
  S3: for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you
• 44:30
  S3: will find rest for your souls. And what what moves
• 44:33
  S3: me there is Jesus is describing his own character. Uh,
• 44:37
  S3: that's the kind of person. Uh, the person that he describes. Uh,
• 44:41
  S3: that's the person I want to go to when I'm weary.
• 44:44
  S2: Yeah. We've got to try to squeeze in. Travis. Travis,
• 44:47
  S2: jump right in. We only got two minutes left.
• 44:49
  S8: All right. Yeah. I'm, uh. So I'm a business owner. Uh,
• 44:53
  S8: I have been for the last ten years. You had
• 44:56
  S8: callers talking about busyness and life, having a hard time
• 44:59
  S8: finding rest. Yeah. When I started my business, my mentor
• 45:03
  S8: really pressed upon me. Matthew 633 seek first the kingdom
• 45:07
  S8: and all these things will be taken care of. Um,
• 45:10
  S8: you know, I have taken that to heart. And he
• 45:14
  S8: specifically aimed it towards the Sabbath. And we don't have
• 45:17
  S8: to be religious about it, but just taking a day's
• 45:20
  S8: rest every week and giving it to God. And when
• 45:24
  S8: we feel like we have to make a way, like
• 45:26
  S8: we have to have this bill paid or whatever. Uh,
• 45:30
  S8: the assurance I was given is I would always get
• 45:33
  S8: as much done in six days as I would seven.
• 45:35
  S2: It's a good.
• 45:36
  S8: Word.
• 45:36
  S2: Um, Travis, I got unfortunately, we're running out of time, Travis.
• 45:38
  S2: But I think that's a good word. If you'll hold
• 45:40
  S2: on a second, we're going to give you a copy
• 45:41
  S2: of The Mercy King. How the Kindness of Jesus Heals
• 45:43
  S2: Your sin, shame, and weakness, and also to Penny as
• 45:46
  S2: well for that as well. Scott. We got less than
• 45:49
  S2: a minute to go. Kind of reflecting on what Travis said,
• 45:52
  S2: the Sabbath, what are some other ways that you can
• 45:54
  S2: build in that rhythm to receive the mercy of Christ?
• 45:57
  S3: Well, I think, uh, you know, Sabbath is, best practice
• 46:01
  S3: in my life in three ways. Number one, make the
• 46:05
  S3: Lord's day and non-negotiable. That's the day for church. That's
• 46:09
  S3: the day for family and community and friendship. Uh, 45.
• 46:13
  S2: Seconds.
• 46:14
  S3: Brother. Above all else. Uh. And then, uh, so that's
• 46:17
  S3: the weekly. And then every year, uh, have built into
• 46:21
  S3: your year as much as possible. Time to rest and replenish. And, uh,
• 46:26
  S3: I'll just hold on to number three because I hear
• 46:28
  S3: the music going. Sorry.
• 46:29
  S2: It's like, it's like I'm rushing you on a very
• 46:31
  S2: important topic about rest, but here we are as well. Hey,
• 46:33
  S2: thank you Scott. Scott Sauls for taking the time. The
• 46:36
  S2: book is The Mercy King How the Kindness of Jesus
• 46:38
  S2: Heals Your Sin, shame, and Weakness. Tell us the third thing.
• 46:40
  S2: I got 15 seconds. What's the third thing?
• 46:43
  S3: Every single day, take two hours to do something restful
• 46:46
  S3: with someone you love.
• 46:47
  S2: Love it. Okay. Thank you for listening. Ed Stetzer live
• 46:50
  S2: is a production of Moody Radio. Moody radio is a
• 46:52
  S2: Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.