Latest / The Daily Writer / Media Coach Mary O'Donohue on the 6 Pillars of Media Success for Authors

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Media Coach Mary O'Donohue on the 6 Pillars of Media Success for Authors · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Most authors focus on strategies like email marketing and social media when connecting with their readers and promoting their books.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: On today's episode, you'll hear from an expert who gives you the keys to unlock the power of traditional media, which is perhaps something that you'd never considered using before.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Mary O'Donague is a media coach for authors, number one best-selling parenting author, and former post-producer for the Oprah Winfrey Show.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: She's worked in high-profile television for decades, including years on The Today Show, NBC Nightly News, and Meet the Press.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: As founder of Authors in Media, Mary teaches women nonfiction authors how to get publicity and do media interviews that sell books, expand their impact, and change the world.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Her unique coaching framework, called the Media Impact Method, is a proven path to publicity with purpose and has consistently led to author success in national media, with her clients reaching audiences of more than a billion people so far.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: In this conversation today, you'll learn how traditional media is different than other types of media, a few obstacles authors face when navigating traditional media, and the six pillars that create media success for authors.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And as Mary mentions in the interview, she's getting ready to offer her published to primetime program for women nonfiction authors.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: To find out more, you can grab a slot on her schedule via a link that'll be in the show notes.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: In addition, I encourage you to download her free podcast one-sheet templates by visiting her website, which is MaryO'donahue.com.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's Mary, M-A-R-Y, O-D-O-N-O-H-U-E.com.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've already downloaded these templates myself, and I promise you I'm going to be using these immediately.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this interview was an absolute blast.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I learned a ton and I took a ton of notes, and you're going to find a lot of value here.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure and take notes as well.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, as a former college professor, I'm always going to say take notes, but I think that's a good practice to have in life and in business.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my interview with the amazing Mary O'Donahue.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Mary, thanks so much for being a guest today.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: You are one of those people that I mentioned this before, I hit record that, that I have known about for a long time, but never had the pleasure of actually meeting in person until RyderFest, just um, well, back in December.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great to, it's great to connect with you then and great to have you on the podcast now.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for joining us.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, Ken.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we are diving into the topic of traditional media today, which I know for many of my listeners is something that they're not really involved in because so many people are involved in things like podcasting and you know, blogging and social media.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: But traditional media is something that I know a lot of writers and authors don't have a lot of experience in.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really thankful to dive into this today.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: My first question is what is the difference between traditional media versus other types of media?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Just so I can make sure we're all on the same page.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when I think of traditional media, I'm talking about local and national television, radio, um, podcasts as well.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Podcasts have become traditional media.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, magazines, newspapers, both print and online, uh, that's traditional media.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, there are some huge, huge podcasts.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's really kind of an evolution of radio.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I yeah, I podcast very much our part of traditional media for me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's really helpful because sort of knowing your terms before you go into a conversation, it can be really, really helpful.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that that you mentioned that we could talk about, and I thought this was a great idea, is some obstacles that authors face when it comes to navigating traditional media.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love it if you could share some of those obstacles just so we as authors know what the minefields are out there before we get into the weeds of traditional media and try to navigate that.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think one of the biggest obstacles is sort of um, it's a group of obstacles which are, and I've been talking about this lately a lot, which are media myths.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: These are things that authors believe is true about traditional media, um, that these things are not in fact true at all.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But they the belief in these myths keeps authors from getting publicity.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it really hurts them.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: It costs them time, it costs them money, it costs them valuable publicity because they will sometimes spend money or time trying to get it without understanding how it works.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of those myths is that you have to know someone on the inside.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have authors tell me that all the time.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, um they'll be like, well, I don't know anybody on the inside in media, so media isn't possible for me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why not?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that everything is a personal relationship on media?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like media is is huge, right?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're talking about national television, for example, do you think that every single person who appears on national television has a contact on the inside?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: They do not, I can tell you.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked on more than 10,000 high-profile television interviews in my career, 30 plus years.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's not how television works.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: We don't sit around and say, well, we're we're doing a show about finance, you know, personal finance.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Who do we personally know?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like who's our friend?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like who's the best person out there talking about this topic?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: We look at authors, we see, you know, who are the experts?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really your expertise that gets you on media, um, being a good match for that media outlet, and an absolute clarity about your messaging.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what helps you get on media, um, not who you know at all.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's just one of them.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's many media minutes.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to go into more if if you like.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, that'd be fantastic if you could share some more of those if you'd like.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, another thing is that, you know, media interviews don't sell books.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had publishers tell me this.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we don't we hire these publicists and and you know, we get these media interviews, but you know, there's no we don't move the needle on book sales.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll say, well, tell me about these interviews.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And their focus is selling books.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so the authors are talking about their book, their book, you know, in chapter five of my book.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, you you should really read my book.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not gonna tell you what's it what's in there now because I want to make sure you read it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like these sort of um attitudes that, oh my gosh, I've got to talk about the book, I've got to talk about the book.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're not a famous celebrity, we didn't book you to talk about your book.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: We booked you because you are an author who has credibility and expertise and can serve our audience.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to serve, not advertise.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I tell authors, well, if you're talking about your book, your book, your book, uh, that's an infomercial.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you paid for the media interview, if you paid thousands of dollars up front, then go ahead and do an infomercial.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: But why would you pay?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's another myth that authors have to pay sometimes for media interviews.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Media interviews are free.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, they're better than free because a media interview is a marketing asset that somebody else pays to create.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: The media is paying for the infrastructure.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're paying for, you're talking about local television, they're paying for cameras, for studio, for for lighting, for audio, for all of the technicians, for all of the producers, for renting or owning that space.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is a massive expenditure, and you're handed that opportunity.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's way, way better than free.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so yeah, you should never pay for a media interview.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But there's there's just a lot that people believe.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let me think of there's there's so many of them.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um which I talk about, which I just recorded a bunch of videos on.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what just the what would be a good one to share?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's like I'm totally drawing a blank.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me ask, let me let me ask a question in the meantime.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So how does I talk about the Zalba deck?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's say um if I put out a book that I wanted to promote on traditional media or that I thought would be a good fit.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: How would what is what are what are the things that would need to happen for me to get on, let's say, a television show or a radio interview without ha having to hire a publicist?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or is that possible?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, yes.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's another myth.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the one.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm glad I asked that.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you do not need to hire a publicist as a nonfiction author.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, there are more than a million uh independently published books coming out every year, tens of thousands of books coming out, you know, with uh traditional publishers, hybrid publishers.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's not enough publicists on planet Earth to handle all of that, right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's simply not enough.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's the first obstacle.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But and second of all, it's a it's a significant investment to work with a publicist.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you've finance the publication of your book, then to turn around and look at spending another$20,000 uh to work with a publicist is is a huge investment and it's completely not necessary.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, you can uh pitch yourself, but before you pitch yourself, you should prepare because too many authors, uh, too many authors, you know, will come to me and and say, you know, how do how do I get on TV?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say that's a great question, but it's not the first question.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's the first question for you, how do I prepare to get on TV and do a great media interview that meets my goals, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I I say to authors, well, what do you what do you want?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because some authors will say, Um, you know, I want to be a bestseller, you know, I want to sell a lot of books.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's a path for that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other people say, you know, I want to be on the today show.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's good.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: You'll reach four million people, but how do you get on the today show?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have to really think about the today show is not gonna go, hey, I've never heard of you, never done any television, I'm just gonna book you.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how it works.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's really very, very possible to get traditional media, but you have to learn, you have to prepare yourself and you have to have absolute clarity on your messaging.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have six pillars um that you know, pitching is part of.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can I share those?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh would this be a good time to share those?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Can I ask a let me throw a question out there first, just as a little kind of a case study, just out of curiosity.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: So back in the fall, I had I had a book come out.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: This was actually a ghostwriting project, but my name is on the book, so I have talked about this.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Probably my my friends and family probably think I've talked about this ad nauseum over the last few months.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: But this the book was called The Faith of Elvis, and I wrote it with Elvis Presley's brother, stepbrother, Billy Stanley.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the publisher, Thomas Nelson, yeah, their division of HarperCollins.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they actually hired one of the, my understanding was one of the biggest PR firms in Hollywood to do PR for the book.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And they included me in all that, and it was really fun because I had never had that experience before.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I wasn't in the interviews really, but I they I would get all the messages, messages between them and Billy about we booked you on this show and we tried for this show, but they said no, those kinds of things because the book was a little too faith-based, that kind of stuff.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: How does a publisher um I'm trying to even frame my question correctly?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: How does a publisher know if it was worth it to pay the money to do a PR agency?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I don't know what they paid for it, and that was never, of course, my place to ask them.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I was always just kind of curious, how does a publisher figure out the metrics on whether that was a good investment or not?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Does it just come down to book sales and they have some kind of number that they gauge that against or something like that?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh I believe so that that would be their metric, would be book sales, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would assume so.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've had publishers tell me, oh, you know, you know, media interviews don't sell books.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: It said, you know, uh, so it's really not worth it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: But they're not doing strategic media interviews.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if a publicist is getting those interviews, was Ellis' stepbrother prepared for those media interviews?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Was he strategic?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Did he understand how to sell books?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, did he have Yeah?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's very good.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, great.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very good.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's really the key.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because starting with publicity, as I was alluding to earlier, that's kind of a mistake.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you I'm sure a publisher is paying 20,000, 30,000 plus, um, probably significantly more than that for um PR companies, um per author.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So per campaign for three months, uh, that's a lot of money.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think that they would look at that and say, did we get the book sales?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And often they do not.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have been told by numerous publish publishers, both large and small, that they just don't think it's a a good investment.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll always say, well, you know, publicity doesn't sell books, strategic publicity sells books.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not being strategic, then I'm I'm not surprised.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, you know, I've worked on 10,000 media interviews in 30 plus years.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen these interviews, I've worked on these interviews that are not strategic.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, national talk shows where somebody comes on and they've got the publicist and they've got the manager and they walk in there and they're all fancy and they sit down and they have a non-strategic conversation and they walk out and they think they did great.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then in the edit room, I have to try to make them make sense.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a challenge, I'm sure, sometimes.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I and I have, you know, like I I remember a guest, and I won't say who it was, a semi-celebrity who was asked about his book.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so so tell us about your book.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, I'll tell you what's not in my book.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he started to talk about something else.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's how he answered the question.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So in anything, we can't save you from yourself.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when somebody actually asks you about your book, and this was a particular type of book where, you know, um, he mean he should have been able to answer that question.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: You won't always be asked that specific question, um, but he didn't know how to answer it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was that was a shame because it was a lovely book.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think it's it's really important to be strategic.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So having that big publicist um doesn't mean you will sell books, even if you get high-profile interviews.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because if you're not prepared to do a high-profile interview and maximize that media moment, it can be a complete waste, waste of time.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was really impressed with this PR agency.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: They uh seemed like they knew everybody on the planet and you know, had connections at basically every show under the sun.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and some of them said no because it was a uh strictly a faith-based book.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a match for their media.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Totally, totally, which makes sense.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: But uh um, you know, as far as Billy Stanley goes, he's been in the media and talking about Elvis since the 60s, since he was a kid.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was just I was just absolutely blown away with his hit somehow, he has the ability to be very, very personal, personable, tell he's got you know boatloads of great stories about Elvis, but also just be so professional and slick, like, and I don't mean slick in a negative way, but just very polished.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and can just like make you cry with stories.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's just this amazing skill that he has.
• 16:03
  unknown: Wow.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a lot of fun to see that behind the scenes.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for sharing that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: That that kind of helps me to have a better understanding of how this whole world works.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to mention you know, you said the word um connections, they had all these connections.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, you don't need connections, you just need names and emails.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really that is don't have to pay$20,000 to a publicist for that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, how would you get that?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say if somebody like me, if I didn't hire a publicist, how would I figure out who to pitch to, let's say, on a television show or a radio show?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is it basically just a little sleuthing on the internet?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing how to pitch somebody?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have a process that I teach my authors.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: But but here's a really low-tech way.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Call the station up and ask them.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: That is that is uh the most obvious thing in the world that most of us wouldn't think of.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Make a phone call.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just pick up the phone, call this, you know, call the local station in Chicago and Nashville and Indianapolis.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hi, I'd like to be on your show, especially if you're if you're local.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm a local author, I'd love to be on your show.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh to especially and again, nonfiction.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Fiction is a completely different thing.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's a uh something I don't focus on.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but nonfiction, you have an expertise to bring.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you call and you say, I'm a personal finance expert with who recently wrote a book.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm local to Indianapolis and I would love to be on your show.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I send a pitch to?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that's great.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't share like my whole process for um for how to reach out to people publicly, and here's the reason because a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if people are pitching before they A, know how to write a pitch, um, but also B, are completely unprepared, have no strategy, um, then they're doing media interviews.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, earlier I said a media interview is a marketing asset that somebody else pays to create.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's only an asset if you're prepared.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not prepared, it can be a marketing liability that somebody else controls.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: We own it at that media outlet, we control it, we can edit it any way we want.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we can take bits of it and put it in other shows, all that sort of thing.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important to be prepared because otherwise you could be creating liabilities.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Most authors are simply creating uh souvenirs.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I call them random acts of media because there's no intention or strategy behind them, and those do not get results.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be prepared in order to create a marketing asset.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: We'll return to the interview in just a moment, but first, a word from today's sponsor.
• 18:46
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• 18:54
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• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's why for years, my go-to choice for book formatting software has been Vellum.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Vellum gives you the power to build, style, and preview your book and have more fun than you ever thought possible while doing it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Vellum is the go-to choice for indie authors who care about creating beautiful ebooks and print books and want to save tons of time in the process.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Best of all, you can download Vellum and play with your book's formatting to your heart's content.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: You only have to purchase when you're ready to publish.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do so, Vellum can create ebooks for every platform, including Kindle, Kobo, Apple Books, and more, as well as a PDF ready to upload for the print version.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: To download Vellum for free, visit trivellum.com slash daily.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And now back to our interview.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive into uh the six pillars that create media success for authors.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really curious about these, and I am if you see me looking down, I'm taking notes.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's probably not you're not supposed to, you know, take notes for your interview, but but I've got my little reporter's notebook here, and I always like to take some notes.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so yeah, if you could share these with us and share as much or as little as you want to, uh I'm super excited to hear these.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, there is this word that keeps coming up when I work with these women nonfiction authors because I that's who I work with.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the word that they want is impact.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I kept thinking about this word, and um and I realized that this is my framework, is I for identity.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first pillar.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: In order to get media attention, you have to know who you are and whom you serve.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm going to, if I'm a producer and I'm gonna book you as an author on my show, I need to know who you are.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know your bio, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I need to know that you're a good match for the audience that I have.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you were saying, you know, you weren't getting on um, you know, you had faith-based content and that wasn't right for certain media outlets because, you know, your audience and their audience didn't match.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why they said no.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's fine, but you have to know who who you serve.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't have that basic information, um, or they'll point to, well, I have um a bio in the back of my book.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's all well and good, but that's not a strategic media bio.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: A strategic media bio doesn't include details like, you know, she lives in Denver with her three corgies and her twin daughters and her whatever, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So those are details that I may not need at all unless it's relevant to your book.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a personal finance expert, like we were using that example, I don't need to know that you live in Denver unless you're on Denver, you know, media.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to know that you have corgis or that you have twin daughters.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's not relevant to me in any of those.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Things can derail your interview.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, you have corgis.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love corgis.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about corgis for 45 seconds and waste time in this interview.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you see, it's not strategic.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to be, you want to really know your identity, who you are and whom you serve.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't know that with great clarity, then we won't know if you're the right person for us to book and if you also will serve our audience.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I and there's more to identity than that, but that's the basic idea.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Second one is M for messaging.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important that you have complete clarity on what it is you do for people.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, sometimes I'll say to authors, I'll meet somebody, oh, I'm an author of a book about, you know, um, you know, fitness or something, and I'll say, Oh my gosh, it's great, you know, what's your book about?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, it's uh back a couple years ago, you know, I was kind of out of shape, and then starts to give me like an explanation.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: You should never have to explain what your book is about or explain what your message is.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to state what it is you do, who you do it for, and what is unique about your message.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is what is what is something that is memorable.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: So having clarity about your message and us being able to see that when we go to your, you know, your Twitter, your Instagram, your LinkedIn, your website, everywhere we see the same consistent, clear, concise messaging, then as a media person, we feel more confident in booking you because we you know who you are, so we can introduce you in a way that our audience will know, hey, they booked this person because they have this expertise or experience.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they have credibility to the audience.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's really, really important.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um what if you do different things though?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say, for example, me, I do ghostwriting, but I also serve authors through a podcast and membership community.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: I do books for authors, but I also have a book series for my son, basically.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a book on father's wisdom in different areas, those kinds of things.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So what if you have these different things you do and they don't really?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the Ghostbusters things, you know, don't cross the streams.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: That actually doesn't make any sense in this context.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, um, what if you do these different things?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Then is it a matter of you are you are making it clear who you are according to that audience?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important to have one consistent media bio uh that you use everywhere.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially so if you're an author and you've written a book, um let's say, you know, I'm a parenting author, so I've written a parenting book, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was trying to get media as a parenting book, um I would focus my bio on that.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had a parenting website now, which I've had in the past when I was doing media for my book and media about parenting, my book came out back in 2010.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um was traditionally published.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was doing media about that, you know, I had one media bio that focused on my expertise as a parent.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: It did include that I had two kids because that was relevant.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that that was consistent across everything.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have different bios out there, then a media person who goes to book you, they're looking at your Instagram, maybe they're looking at your website.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, those two things are different.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So now it's a bit confusing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if they want to book a parenting author and they see, you know, back when I was a parenting author, I wasn't also a media coach, but if they see multiple things, then sometimes that can um be confusing to a media person who is looking for an expert on XYZ, and you're an expert on A, B, C, D, E, F G H, and it's too much, and they're like, we just need somebody who's an expert on you know, XYZ or whatever.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they're gonna focus on that.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for somebody who's gonna meet the needs of their audience.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it's too much, you know, uh they might be confused.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I when you want media, a lot of times, so if you're talking about local news, if you have a book that's come out and you want to be on the local news talking about it, um, then you're not also gonna be talking about your membership and all this kind of stuff.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be very focused.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I am the author of this book, um, and this is my expertise.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So uh messaging, messaging is very important because you know there's an expression in sales that a confused mind never buys.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell authors a confused producer never books.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're confused, they won't book.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because here's the other thing that people don't understand about media is that decisions are made um in a way it's like going up a level, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you pitch me um and I'm let's say an associate producer for a talk show, then I have to quickly pitch you to my producer, their teams, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I go to the producer on my team and I say, Hey, I really want to book this Kent.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's fantastic, he's got this, this, and this, and his book just came out, etc.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so then the producer is like, wow, that sounds good.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then that producer will pitch you up the chain of command to either a senior producer or an executive producer.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as a senior post producer myself, many times I have been in executive producers' offices having meetings about post-production that were important, and I was constantly getting interrupted by show producers or senior producers saying, Hey, there's this guy, Kent, I want to book him on my show next Tuesday.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's got this, this, and this, and his book just came out, and etc.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that little mini pitch takes about 10 seconds, and I will be sitting in the chair, the producer's over there at the door, and the executive producer is sitting at her desk, and I just watch, and then the executive producer will say, Yeah, that sounds good, book him.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or, hmm, I don't know, probably not.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then you having clarity about what you do is so important because remember that game we would play in kindergarten, telephone, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: The telephone.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you I would tell a story to the little kid next to me and it would pass around, pass around.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you want your your messaging to be so clear that as it goes through that chain of command, that circle, it still comes out the same message at the end.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And explaining what your messaging is won't achieve that.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But having a right, so you know, I teach women nonfiction authors how to get national publicity so they can sell books, grow their impact, and change the world.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my message, and that's consistent everywhere.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's really important that you know people know who you serve, what you do for them, what's different about you.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's why messaging is so important.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the second pillar.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next one is the one everybody gets excited about, which is pitching, and that is outreach to media.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you don't need a publicist for this the stage because you just need um to know who to pitch, make sure it's the right person, uh, the right um you know, outlet.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: So back when I was talking about identity, I said it's about who you are and whom you serve, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you get to pitching, and it was so important that you went through that phase and understood who you are and who you serve and nailed that down because now you're not going to spend time wasting, you're not gonna waste time reaching out to producers or content creators, you know, um writers, etc., who don't serve that audience because that would really be pointless.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: But most people are just reaching out like crazy to media because they just want attention, but really they are not going to get booked on ones that don't serve their audience, or if they are booked, uh what's the point?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now they've created something that their audience is confused about, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was a parent author and I did a show that wasn't for parents, then how do I share that with my audience?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're like, well, that doesn't make any sense.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like this isn't for me, this doesn't serve me.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So pitching is very important.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I teach authors who to pitch, how to pitch, when to pitch, why to pitch, all aspects of the pitching process.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and during my programs, they actually pitch live.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that sounds fun.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, while we're working on the program.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and that's what I love is because they know how to pitch, then after our coaching program is done, they are still pitching themselves.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they now know how to do it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when you work with a publicist, it's limiting because you've spent that 15,000, 20,000.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you're on the coasts, if you're New York or LA, you might have spent$30,000.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now whether you did or didn't get publicity, um, that term is over, and now you're on your own.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you think, well, I don't have those contacts that that publicist had, and you don't know how to pitch.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you are you're sort of like, well, now I can't get public.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can't get publicity.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've had authors tell me that.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I spent$30,000.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: An author tell me in New York City.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get anything.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, and now now it's too late.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she had a fantastic.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this was this was years ago, but it's just, you know, you when you have these skills, these are learnable skills.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn pitch.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh I have templates and all that kind of thing.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really have received so many pitches, hundreds and hundreds of pitches, as a post producer or somebody who worked in the control room or whatever different jobs I've had, but most of my career I've been a post producer or senior post producer.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the one to pitch.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get to the show till it's already taped and needs editing.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Then my team works on it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So people are pitching me and they're sending me, they look like resumes, single space resumes.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say um it's the seven-word pitch that costs you publicity because it's those first seven words are something like, I was hoping you could help me.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Please, I'm begging.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I delete because I'm not in the business of helping.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the business of getting a show on the air for a time that I will be there till one in the morning if I'm lucky uh to get that show up.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna have a lunch break because I don't have time because I don't want to be here till two in the morning.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's the reality.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so if people understand producers are not in the business of helping you, they're in the business of getting a show on the air.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: How can you help them?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: When you pitch in that way, it's much more effective.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting because it's the to me, it's the it's the same thing on a much smaller scale as a podcast host.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, this isn't like a big massive podcast, but I do get pitches on a regular basis.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: People want to be on the show.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes they'll send me pitches and I'm like, did you even do you even know that this podcast is about writing?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it'll be these these crazy kinds of things, and I can't imagine on the scale of having an actual TV show or a big radio show or something, just the the muck that you have to wade through sometimes with these crazy pitches that that are totally not aligned or they're not written well or whatever.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they didn't listen to your show, they didn't pay attention.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: First listen to your show, understand that sometimes you you interview people, sometimes you do shorter um wisdom uh episodes and understand, listen and see.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not hard for the title to understand.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: It'll take you 30 seconds looking through you know the Apple Podcast.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just look at the episodes, you can tell what it is.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell my authors three times watch um an interviewer, you know, watch somebody on television three times, interview people, listen to a podcast three times.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, three times.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you have an understanding of what they do, whom they serve, because otherwise you're wasting your time pitching.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because the people who pitch you who aren't right for your show, they're also wasting their time.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're not just wasting your time.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're not going to get booked on your show.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's disrespectful.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can have relationships.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships with media do matter once you've established that.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not you have to know somebody who works at this TV show in order to get booked.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you do get booked on a TV show and then they trust you, that relationship does matter because then you'll get asked back again and again.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So relationships do matter in media, but after the fact, not before.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so we've done identity messaging, pitching, and then the next stage is amplification.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's really the strategy.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's really thinking very seriously about hey, you know, what does it feel like to be a producer creating an interview, and how can I work with that producer so that I maintain uh input into this media interview because it is not a passive experience.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll share a story.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, years ago, I was doing an interview as a parenting expert, and um, I had a beach ball.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um there was another author in the green room, and she said, Why do you have a beach ball?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh, I'm gonna be talking about forgiveness, you know, raising kids who understand forgiveness and are able to forgive.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the beach ball is visual for television.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is a you know, a visual media, and um having this beach ball carrying it around as a kid all day, it's light.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone can agree, a beach ball is super light, but it would be a burden to carry a beach ball around all day.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that illustrates when you hold on to a grudge as a kid, it's still a burden, so it's better to, you know, talk to the person, let it go, move on.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so she said, Wow, that's really cool.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, what are you here to talk about?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and she's like, I don't know, whatever they want to ask me.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: So one of us left that day with a marketing asset, and one left with, you know, just a souvenir.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she wasn't strategic or prepared.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very important to have input into your own media interview and not to be passive about it, because you can actually contribute.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can actually let them know, hey, here's my bio, here's some things I'd love to talk about.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can um, you know, especially if you're talking about national television, this is a great opportunity for you.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Local television.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but producers don't get that type of feedback.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: When I when you can have visuals, you know, props, graphics, that sort of thing, you can actually contribute, you can actually let them know you'd like to use certain things.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that makes your interview more engaging and uh and you've participated as opposed to sort of letting it happen to you.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a collaborative experience.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I love when authors kind of understand that, and then they're like, wait a minute, okay, I can participate in this.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll and I'll share another real story here.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: When I was doing an interview about my um my parenting book, um, I was in St.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, and um the producer had reached out to me, hey, we'd love to have you on.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Great, I'll be there.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in Chicago, so I was driving to St.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, and I said, Yeah, I'll be there this date, and um, here's my bio, here's some things, I could bring these props, I could do this, you know.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I sent her back this whole email.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the interview was going really well, Kent.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, I hit my stride.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I glanced at the paper that was in front of him.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was my email.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So he was interviewing me off my exact email that I'd sent to the producer saying, here's what I'd love to talk about, here's some graphics, here's the project.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and I thought, ah, I could teach people how to do this.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a media coach, but I was like, I could teach people how to do this.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I'll ever do with that information, but now, of course, as a media coach, I do use it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's really, really important to be strategic, and that is that amplification because when you pitch and now you're getting the opportunity to interact with media, you want to use this as a point of strategy.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, everything you do should be strategic.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the next thing is the one people are like, oh, that sounds kind of boring, communication.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Communication is essential.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know how to talk to people in a media interview.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, some people will say, well, isn't a media interview like somebody asks you questions and you just answer their questions?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes and no.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um that you know, you can actually bring this strategy and this intention.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I learned many things in the years I worked for the Oprah Show, but one thing I learned is the power of intention.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when you do a media interview, that you have an intention for that interview to serve people in a certain way.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I will talk about uh O McDonald had a farm, EIEIO, right?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: The EIEIO uh is you can educate, you can inform, you can entertain, you can inspire, and O is to have an offer.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: So O is have some sort of one call at the end of your interview.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so if you go into an interview, you say, well, I really want to educate people, I really want to teach people about media, or I want to teach people these you know parenting techniques that I've learned or that are in my book, etc.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to teach, um, I want to tell people how to create uh a collage that they can do with their kids or whatever it is, right?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: How to.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can inform, you can share, hey, the latest data on this particular uh health issue or whatever.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the latest data.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna inform you.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm gonna talk about that, I'm gonna get this new information, this crucial information to you.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can entertain.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did an interview once, worked on an interview um behind the scenes, and uh it was a veterinarian who also sang to the animals.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he brought his guitar, he was singing.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've worked on interviews where chefs are teaching a recipe, they're teaching you how to make a particular dish, but they're engaging, they're they're enjoying it, they're they're entertaining personalities are coming out.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you can inspire.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh a lot of times what memoir authors do in media interviews.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: They inspire with their stories.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they've overcome challenges, perhaps, they share that in a book, they share how they overcome the challenges, and that's really inspiring and motivating to people.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you can do interviews, you know, that have one or more of those elements.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can, you know, combine them.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: But how you communicate with intention is very, very important.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so learning how to tell your origin story.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I have a process called a relatable to remarkable uh origin story.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like telling a story where the beginning part of it has something that people relate to, and then it makes you feel connected with them because stories create connection.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when I wrote my parenting book long before that, um my son received uh a gift and it wasn't his birthday, it wasn't Christmas, his birthday is the day after Christmas.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was the middle of the summer, and he got this gift and he was so excited.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: He was, you know, five or six years old.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a toy?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a book?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a game?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was a t-shirt.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was very underwhelmed.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Opened the present, dropped the t-shirt on the floor, walked out of the room, and the ribbon caught on his ankle.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And he was dragging the present on the packaging and the whole thing.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was so mortified.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I said to my friend who gave him the gift, uh, I'm sorry, and I called back to my son, hey, what do you say?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Thank you.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a relatable moment for a parent.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: We walked in, you know, and so, but then what I realized was when my husband and I at the time were prompting, um, you know, our kids are growing up now, but when we were prompting uh our then, you know, five or six-year-old son to say thank you, we were just training him to act thankful and not teaching him to be a grateful person.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew as a parent I needed to do something to bridge the divide between those two concepts.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I created this month-by-month program.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the remarkable part.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: The remarkable part is, I'm not saying I'm remarkable, but the remarkable part is when someone does something about the thing that is relatable.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that realization in the middle, I would say it's relatable to remarkable, that little T O, that's that moment of epiphany.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you think, oh, I've been doing this wrong, or I just realized that my job isn't fulfilling and I want to go to Paris and learn how to be a French chef or whatever it is.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's that moment when things change, and then the remarkable part is that you do something about it.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I teach authors how to tell the relatable to remarkable uh origin story, and that's very important.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And also to share sound bites, you know, when you're, you know, earlier I said um publicity doesn't sell books, strategy, you know, strategic publicity sells books.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's more memorable, that's a sound bite.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I teach authors um, you know, how to create sound bites that are relevant for them, uh, that would work well in media interviews, and then they're sticky, right?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: The audience is thinking about them afterwards.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I really like when that person said that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was that mattered to me.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it makes them want to read your book, follow you on social media, become part of your community, etc.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then the last part is the the T in impact is transformation.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say to authors every time you do a media interview, you should be hoping for some kind of transformation.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: You should be really planning to, you know, I want to educate so that other people don't have to struggle with this issue.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to inspire so that people who see this interview will feel like life can get better for them because they've heard my story.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you you think about I want to have this intention so that it gets this result.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that transformation is really important.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what I also love is when I work with authors, watching their transformation, watching them go from somebody who maybe thinks, I don't know if I can do national media.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lovely author who I've worked with.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was talking to her about my program last year, she was like, I'm just from a small town, you know, I don't know, my book's not out yet.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a publisher yet.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't know if it's gonna if I can do national media.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: And based on her topic, I said, you can absolutely do national media.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's joy after joy through struggle.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you can be joyful when you're struggling.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: And she was in the October issue of Time magazine.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, in print.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh and she's done other media as well, but you know, I saw that as possible for her.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I love seeing that transformation from someone thinking, is this even possible for me to proving it to themselves over and over again?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh wow, like this is actually I did this.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and I say I did this, meaning the authors, because I don't pitch for anybody.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't pitch for them.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: They discover who to pitch, I teach them how to contact the person, um, they um, you know, write the pitch, they get feedback from me if they're still in my program, um, and and they send these pitches out and they get themselves booked in national media and they do that during and after the program.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the best part for me because I love to teach people a skill so that it isn't like a publicist who is, you know, doing a great service, but at the end of that contract, you're completely on your own.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love the idea of you know, um, sort of teaching a man to fish rather than giving him the fish, you know.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love that idea.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um teaching someone to to have that skill.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's the media impact method, which is identity, messaging, pitching, amplification, communication, and transformation.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And those are the six steps to uh publicity with purpose, right?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't want authors just to get publicity.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, sometimes people say, Oh, I worked with a publicist and I got, you know, 10 hits, and I'll say, okay, what were those hits?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they were these trade magazines or a couple of podcasts I did, and then I'll say, What were the results?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: There were no results.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I did the media, so books didn't sell, nothing happened, you know, they didn't boost their credibility, um, they didn't grow their audience, none of those things happen.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'll say, Well, you know, that's some of it, so much more is possible for you.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about getting the media, it's about the type of media you do, participating in it, contributing to that media interview, uh, collaborating with that, you know, journalist or whatever, um, and doing media that makes a difference for the audience reads or listens or watches.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, this is like a masterclass in media.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is phenomenal.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: I took a bunch of notes on this actually.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is really, really good stuff.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now the question is, are my notes going to be legible later?
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think they I'm gonna give it like a 50-50 shot.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: I did almost flunk handwriting in grade school.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: So gosh, yes, I yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: How how am I how I'm a full-time author, I'm not really sure with all that, but I guess it's because I type and non-handwriting books.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, one thing I wanted to ask about is something that I think female nonfiction authors are gonna be very interested in.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned this before I hit record on this conversation, which is your publish to prime time program.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm wondering if you could share about that.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: I know that not all of our audience is female nonfiction authors, but um, a lot of them are.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to hear more about this.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Publish to prime time.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've run it three times in my third cohort, and I'm doing a fourth cohort this month, which is January 2023.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can't believe it's 2023 already, can't it sounds weird to say, doesn't it?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, it does.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I'm these are uh small group coaching cohorts, no more than 12 women.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they get very personalized attention.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is uh a five-month program.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we work through the media impact method.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we spend a few weeks on identity, uh, every month.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sorry, every uh specific uh you know uh identity messaging, uh what word I'm trying to say, uh module.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's the word that was escaping me.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Every specific module has um content and then a challenge.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I like action.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: When you take action uh that builds upon week after week after week, uh then you really make progress.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a passive experience, you're actually doing something.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we go through all of the media impact method, and then we do practice interviews.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: My group right now is their challenge uh for this week is to practice pitching me, as I I pretend I have my own talk show.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they pitch me, and then I respond as the producer of said talk show, and then we interact, and then I interview them.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and that's the uh interviews are done um with the group.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we have Zoom calls and uh we meet weekly, and then the last two months of the program are focused exclusively on pitching and practice practice views.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we really uh want to make sure that they are pitching uh while they have me.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: They can wait till afterwards, of course.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but and the the cool thing is your book doesn't need to be out yet, it can be coming out in the next year or so.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because that author I was just telling you about who got on Time magazine, her book wasn't out that um, but uh when she was in the online version of Time, they put a link to her website.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty cool.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Millions and millions of people.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh yeah, exactly.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that that's um that's kind of the program we go through the whole thing, and then we do quite a bit of pitching and we do quite a bit of interview practice.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so authors are really prepared.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was talking about transformation earlier, they have come through uh this process of a lot of them like, oh, I'm not comfortable being interviewed or being on camera and all of this.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but by the end, they are they're super comfortable with it, and they're comfortable but they're strategic.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: I always say I don't want you to be too comfortable, I don't want you to be like, oh, this is just a casual conversation because it should always have intention and strategy behind it.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so that's what we do, and then uh afterwards, they uh there is a group that the authors uh stay in in an alumni community where they share that they've been, you know, done media interviews, they share, hey, this was the person who interviewed me for uh goodmorningamerica.com.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Here's her email.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they share amongst themselves, um, and uh which is lovely.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so it's a long-term situation in terms of they can stay in the community with me and with other authors if they like.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's a really wonderful group, and I absolutely love coaching, and I love showing them all the stuff that they don't know about media because they do come with a lot of these media myths in their head, like I was talking about earlier, and showing them no, that's not true.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have that obstacle, you don't need this, you don't need that.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is what you need, and it's it's media is accessible to you, and that's really joyful for me as a teacher, as a coach, to see them get these opportunities that they get themselves.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: I teach them how to get them, but they get them, they get them themselves.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they're not dependent on me for contacts, they're not dependent on me for anything.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're educated about media and how it works.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: How can people find out more about that?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I assume go to your website, but is there a specific link or anything that you'd like them to check out?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't have a specific link.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I you know what I'll do is I will share a link to Meet with me because that's that's really the key.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um because everybody's perfect.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't sell that um to women nonfiction authors.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't just say anybody can get in it.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know that they can get national publicity.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: I never want to take, um, you know, bring someone to my program who isn't isn't ready for this, or maybe they haven't, you know, sometimes people like, I haven't written my book yet, but I'm going to write a book.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I say, well, this isn't the time for you.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: You I don't want to take the money because this won't make sense to you, right?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: You need you need to be an author or an author to be.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to be in the process and not just it's out there somewhere.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the timing has to be right.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: But for some people, what they what I am making available uh for 2023 is the media impact method is in the core content for my group coaching.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that is available.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Media Success Blueprint.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: And media success blueprint can be purchased separately.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: So people can so if you're not a woman nonfiction author, you can still uh do that and get all of the information that you need.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, Mary, I know one thing that you're offering to people is a really cool free download, which is a podcast one sheet.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm wondering if you could explain what that is and why it's valuable and how people can grab that.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it is wonderful.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're on a podcast and you're an author, uh, it's really wonderful to have some sort of template that you can use to create a one sheet that you can send to the podcast producer or host.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it helps you co-create that interview.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can share a visual of your book, a picture of yourself, uh, all your social media contacts, all your information, your website, um, some questions you'd like to be asked.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so my team created this wonderful.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually three different templates uh in Canva, and an example of me as a parenting author.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: I did one as well, so you can see what it looks like.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so with the there are these wonderful templates, and you can create this beautiful, polished, gorgeous-looking, completely custom, you know, podcast one sheet for you, for your book, or your brand, your business, and send it out to podcasters.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, that is available on my website, which is maryodonohue.com, and it's um my last name is spelled O D O N O H U E.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no A in my last name.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's Mary Odonohue.com.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I pronounce it Odonohue, but it's it's spelled with a no.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you go there and join my community, uh, you will get the podcast one sheets, uh, the templates, and you can easily create them in Canva.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's so, so simple.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then it really helps you look professional and polished uh with podcasters, and it helps you to make sure you're contributing to your own podcasting.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I can verify as a podcaster myself, when people send those, it's just like a shorthand for do I want to have this person as a guest?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do I not?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it makes you look really professional and it it it elevates your brand and your your image in so many ways.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for doing that.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: You just there's so many writers out there right now who are just going like, oh my gosh, they're breathing a sigh of relief because they don't have to create this from scratch.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: This is genius.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate that.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: Mary, this has been a blast.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for making time to be a guest on The Daily Writer.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this has really, really been a lot of great information.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna start putting this into practice immediately.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, this has been been so much fun.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for taking time to do this.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have a wonderful podcast, and I enjoyed listening to it, and I am really honored to have been a guest.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Mary.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: I learned a ton.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: I know I always say that in podcast interviews, but I really do learn so much from my podcast guest.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: And this interview was absolutely no exception.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, as I mentioned in my intro, I took a lot of notes because there's a lot we can take away from this.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, most of us as authors, we focus on social media and email marketing and other kinds of things that are, I don't know if I would say they're newer forms of media.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: I guess they are in comparison to traditional media like TV and print.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: But let's not neglect the traditional forms of media also, because my goodness, those can be immensely powerful when we take the reins of our careers and use those media outlets to our advantage.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: And most importantly, as Mary mentioned, focus on serving those audiences.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure to grab Mary's podcast one sheet templates, which are fantastic.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a female nonfiction author, consider grabbing time on Mary's schedule to chat with her about her published to prime time program.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds absolutely fantastic.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, many thanks to Mary, of course, for taking time to be a guest here on today's podcast.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening, and I'll see you tomorrow.