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Gaslighting...how to recognize it and what to do · Head Shrink Inc.

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little bit about gaslighting.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right, all right.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also curious when I haven't um done a pod for a while, and then all of a sudden it pops up on your playlist like, oh, he did a podcast again.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, I am alive and kicking.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's been a bit.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I did this specific topic already um probably about a month or two ago, but then I listened to it um afterwards and it was a horrifically bad audio.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I just took it down.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so um this is a repeat.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I did have someone tell me that they listened to it, and they said you need to do it over.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm doing it over, and and here we are.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's beautiful outside.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm currently sitting in an RV recording this.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's see what I've been doing, man.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've been across, I've been from Kentucky to Washington, um, seeing lots of clients, getting ready to go to a wedding in Pennsylvania, lots of things going on.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but let's talk, let's get to the topic at hand.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So uh gaslighting.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Gaslighting, it's been interesting.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in the field long enough to hear a variety of um uh buzzwords possibly, or things that people kind of pay attention to a lot more than they normally do.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So at one point um everyone had ADD.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: ADD was the big thing that everyone had um back in the day.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: People still do have it, but it's I mean, it's a pretty common diagnosis.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Then it morphed kind of into oh, everyone has bipolar.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and bipolar, like if if someone's acting weird, they must have bipolar.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's turned into um if if someone's acting weird, they're a narcissist, and they're gaslighting you.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now that narcissism is a real thing, gaslighting is a real thing, but I think often bad people that just have some bad behavior occasionally, or they they get lumped into this category of narcissist, or they get lumped into this idea that oh, they're they're gaslighters.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um I want to talk just generally about what gaslighting is today.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have had another podcast where I talked about uh narcissistic personality disorder and narcissistic traits.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you can scroll back through previous podcasts and look and see if you can find um find some of find that particular podcast.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: But today I want to talk about uh gaslighting.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Gaslighting usually comes up in relationships because that's where there's one person that is um gaslighting the other.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: It can happen in parenting relationships as well.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think usually and it can happen in employee-boss type relationships.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think where you're usually gonna see gaslighting is gonna be in um romantic relationships.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And in its um, you know, essentially gaslighting is lying.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's just say that.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it it the the basic um understanding of it is that's it's a type of lying in relationships.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to go into several different types of um gaslighting, and and what I would say is as I say with most things, if this if if this describes someone in your life and they're doing this consistently in your life, then that's where the problem.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: If someone does it and um they were upset, they were um going through kind of an emotional time, or they're having some emotional stuff going on with uh their children or with their parents or whatever, um, then it it might not be an issue.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: But if this is something that you experience consistently over time, as I often say, then then I would suggest respectfully it's an issue in your relationship and you should address it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so let's start out.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And these are in no way, like when I talk about these, these are I mean they're in an order, but but in no way are they like in order of importance, they're just in order because I'm just talking one after the other about them.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so a person that gaslights, so they they tell blatant lies, and so like you know it's a lie, um, but they tell it with a straight face, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, once they tell you a big lie, and you're not sure it you're not sure if anything they say is true, and so it keeps you unsteady, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: That it keeps you kind of off balance because like how could somebody um lie about something that's so big and obviously untrue?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they tell blatant lies.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: They deny, um, this is a big one, they deny they said anything.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll have an argument and you say, Well, you said this thing yesterday, and they'll they'll say, No, I didn't, I never said anything that you misheard me.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're the one that is making things up.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um that I can't tell you in the last couple weeks, I've talked to many people that are in relationships where that's been a common theme.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what that does, it makes you the listener, second guess yourself.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the biggest things with with gaslighting, is that when people gaslight you, you tend you you start to second guess yourself.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: You start to think maybe I'm the crazy one, maybe I'm the one with the problem.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, successful gaslighters do that and can live for years gaslighting until a person kind of comes to this realization, like, wait, I am not the crazy one here.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually am rational.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they often will use what's important to you relationally as ammunition.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you um are a parent and you really value your children, they um they will say things like, Oh wow, it's too bad the kids have to deal with someone like you.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um they'll tell you shouldn't have shouldn't have had kids.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um they say, like, wow, the kids would would really like you if only you weren't filling the blank.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So they attack like the they attack who you are at your core, and they use the the people that you love to do so.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just bringing kids as kind of an obvious example, but it could be friends, it could be family members, it could be your own parents, your siblings, your aunts or uncles, that they bring into an argument and make it seem like they've had conversations with these people about you, and these people have said, oh, if only so-and-so was this way, then they'd be much easier to deal with.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all lies, it's all untrue.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the one of the darker things about gaslighting is that it happens um consistently over time, it just wears you down and breaks you down.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lie here, a lie there, a passive aggressive comment here, a passive aggressive comment there.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and it they're able to convince you again that it's you with the problem, not them with the problem.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um the have you ever heard of that phrase?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: The um like you know, there's this idea that a frog goes into a a pot of water that's not boiling, but you turn the heat up and the pot the frog will just stay in there and eventually get cooked to death, and it doesn't realize what's happening to it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is a biggie to pay attention to.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Their actions do not match their words.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they will say, I'm gonna go do this thing.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, that sounds like a great idea.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go do that tomorrow.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then they don't do that thing, and then they don't go do it tomorrow.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when you think of the idea the phrase talk is cheap, that that fits a gaslighter to a T.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now remember, uh, as I said in the beginning, these are things that are consistent over time.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh there's a percentage piece, I guess, to it, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: If this is happening 90% of the time, chances are pretty likely you're married to someone that gaslights.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: But if it happens five percent of the time, I I mean, maybe you're just married to a jerk, or maybe you're in a relationship with a jerk, um, or maybe you're married to somebody that has emotional dysregulation issues.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it has to be to actually be gaslighting, to actually be impacting you, it needs to be consistently over time again.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um one of the one of the more confusing things about gaslighting is that so let's say you have in your mind, okay, this is how this person is.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: They they lie to me, they don't, they're not honest with me, they they're creating scenarios where I have to like second guess myself, then every once in a while they throw in a compliment, or they throw in something that makes you feel good about yourself, like that would that would be in a normal, typical relationship.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: That gets super confusing, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a way to kind of keep you in that relationship.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It gets super confusing because here you've spent this time to really define, okay, this is a uh gaslighting relationship.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: This person's a gaslighter, they don't have my best interests in mind, they have their own best interests in mind, and then they then they throw out a positive comment, and it gets confusing, um, because then you start again second-guessing yourself thinking, well, maybe they're not that bad, maybe it is just me, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's just an attempt to keep you off balance.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because if if the totality of their um of what they're doing is gaslighting, one or two little positive comments shouldn't knock you off, shouldn't um keep you off balance.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they project this is a big one.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times um people that gaslight will accuse you of cheating, they'll accuse you of lying to them, they'll accuse you of uh you know hiding money, they'll accuse you of going places that you never went, um, they'll accuse you of talking behind their back.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is all pure projection because it's usually things that they're doing themselves.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I have one person that I'm working with that uh their partner often accuses them of cheating, and I s I've suspected that and I've never met the person, but it's so it's just a suspicion.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I have a suspicion that there's some type of cheating happening with this partner, but they're accusing the person that comes and sees me of cheating when they haven't.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: As far as I know, they haven't, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how how can you really know somebody?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so they project a lot of their um own behavior onto their partner.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um they try to align people against you, so they will tell stories about you to other people, um, whether that be your own family, their coworkers.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they'll say, Well, these people think this about you, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's all that idea of to try to get you to feel poorly about yourself, to throw you you off balance, to make you think, well, maybe I am crazy.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: They'll tell others that you're crazy, right?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: They'll tell others that wow, my my partner is just so whatever, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because if they're gonna lie to your face, of certainly they're gonna lie to other people, but the other people don't have the context that you have because you're in an emotionally intimate relationship, and these other people are just coworkers, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so these other people maybe don't even know you, and so they're believing this person who's a liar, because why wouldn't they?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they they will so so if you confront them with any of these issues, with any of these things, they will uh get stronger in their gaslighting towards you if you provide factual evidence that what they're saying is not accurate, and that so-and-so over here said they heard this about you, they will tell you everyone else is a liar.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: They will tell you that how could how how could you dare believe someone else but me?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to be my uh partner, you're supposed to be the one that cares about me, but here you are valuing the input from another person.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, you're betraying me right now, right?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So those are all the kinds of things that a gaslighter will be telling you.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the the question people often ask me is like, well, what do I do if I'm in a relationship like this?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you can, run.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is not a long-term fun relationship that you want to be in.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's one that you should um see the signs early on and you should avoid at all costs.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're in a com if you're in a marriage, a committed relationship with a person like this, my encouragement would be would be to go do marital counseling um or even family counseling.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's this person needs to have a third party um brought in to give some kind of confrontation to them about this gaslighting.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: That often won't work because then in their mind, like, oh well, this therapist just sides with you because they're a female, or they side with you because they're a male, or they don't know what they're doing.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go back to them, and so then you're then you're stuck again, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they they don't want to be confronted about their bad behavior, unfortunately.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, who does ultimately, but but most reasonable people, if they're doing something wrong, they will own it and try to make things better.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: A gaslighter generally won't.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they generally won't see what they're doing as bad behavior, and the very nature of gaslighting is they'll view it as you causing problems, not them causing problems.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's lots of data, I mean that lots of articles about gaslighting, but hopefully um that's given you some insight on what gaslighting is and maybe a little bit on how to address it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if that's been helpful, I'd love a comment below, or I'd love you to share or reach out to me through you know Facebook or Instagram.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: David Simonson is my Instagram uh handle.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And let me know your experiences of gaslighting.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would be curious to hear what's going on with with you and your relationships around it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hey, have a great weekend.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like it's gonna be sunny and uh awesome, and hopefully you won't get hit by the Chinese rocket that's about to uh go overhead tonight.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right, have a great weekend.