Latest / Beheaded / Roman Thirst for Glory and Gold | Manius Aquillius

Transcript

Roman Thirst for Glory and Gold | Manius Aquillius · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to season six, episode seven.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan Moore and I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: And back to our regular scheduled programming.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Yay, we're back.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: We took a tiny hiatus, which was the first time this season, and that's pretty damn good.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: It was.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: It was also pre-planned, but then I said, I will tell everyone ahead of time so it doesn't seem like it's a last minute thing.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: And then come Wednesday when we would have released it, I was like, dang it, I have to share that we're not gonna post today.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: So sorry, it was actually it wasn't intentional no, it was intentionally delayed.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: It was not like a panic hectic, we can't do this.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: It was pre-planned in our schedule.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: We were just supposed to have more notice.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: But it was funny because I was on a trip and when I like logged in to check our Instagram, like the photo for some reason that you posted didn't look like you right away.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I looked at it, and in my first second was like, why is this girl trying to be like us?
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Because it looked like obviously it looked like our branding and everything, but I couldn't, it like weirdly didn't look like you in the photo.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is a couple years old.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, not even that, it's just like it was a quick glance.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't recognize it as you right away.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: I was just like, who's this?
1:15
SPEAKER_00: My hair is a little different, yeah.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's okay.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh no, it's Megan, and we're fine.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's funny.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, we've just been um we've been busy and it was just really hard to get together, but we're together now, and yeah, we had so much to catch up on.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I know.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, Elizabeth, like you've been all over the world.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Not yeah, not necessarily the world, but uh Robbie and I just got back from a uh a trip to the big island in Hawaii.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Hawaii.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: It was um I've seen, gosh, this is like the fourth Hawaiian island I've seen.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we were staying in Kona, which was great.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: It was Robbie's first time like in Hawaii, so I think he really loved it.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Um it was yeah, it was great.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: It was uh like I was trying to describe to him before the trip.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: I was like, yes, like the weather's so perfect there that a lot of people who live there don't have heat or AC.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: It's just like you open or close your windows and you have fans, and he's like, that's impossible.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, no.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, really, like you'll see.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: And then when we were there, he was like, Why is this weather exactly perfect?
2:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's Hawaii.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: Um that's why it's Hawaii, why everyone wants to be there?
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, we had a great time.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: We were there for a friend's, like, it was called a buddy moon.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't like I like that idea actually.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've mentioned it on the on the podcast.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: I don't think you've shared.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, for those of you that don't know what a buddy moon is, and I hadn't, but it's essentially like if you want to take a honeymoon with friends.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: So the couple we went with, they actually like eloped.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: So they um had a ceremony on Oahu, and then we all went to Kona together for like a week, and then they went on to Kauai by themselves after.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: So they still had like private time, yeah.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Which was nice.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great idea because especially like when you think about it, an actual honeymoon is kind of an outdated idea.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Like to I mean, it's beautiful.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great thing.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the real reason I think we do it was because back in the day, like men and women didn't live together before marriage, or travel with each other separately individually on their own.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So this was like showing, oh my gosh, we're married now, we get to go somewhere together, we get to like be in the same room and like a bed, share a bed, gasp, you know, and spend that time together to get to know each other in the bedroom.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And like, yeah, it's like still a very beautiful idea.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Honeymoons are great, but I'm just saying, like, the reason it's around is because that was so for not forbidden, but kind of, right?
3:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, it was like the consummation period.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Like that's kind of the joke about it.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but this is also nice because it's kind of similar to a destination wedding, yeah, but without all the pressure and the stress of actually doing the wedding right then and there.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: It's like hey, hey guys, wedding happened, it's legal, let's celebrate with friends in a destination location.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: So I really liked this idea, and there was 10 people total, so it wasn't like huge and crazy.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I thought it was I thought it was a great idea.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you're looking for something creative to do and you haven't planned your wedding yet, Buddy Moon's not.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Buddy Moon is the new thing 2025, that's where it's at, evidently.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what people are doing.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Because like it's you can go on a trip whenever with your significant other, but if you have this special time where you can really have all your friends and celebrate something big, like that's that's pretty cool.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: I do.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: I and I've never been to Hawaii, so you you hiked, you did all that, you did all the good beach stuff.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we um we hiked a bit, we went to different beaches, which are very like if you've never been to Kona, it's not like white sand beaches, it's very like rocky lava, like black rock kind of thing.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: So um, so we kind of had to navigate around because certain like high tide, you couldn't go to certain beaches because it was completely high water.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: So we kind of had to trial and error a little bit, but we went around to different beaches, we did the snorkeling, which was by the Captain Cook Monument, which oh no way, yeah, which was cool because like me and Megan have talked about it.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: We're like, oh, I wish we could do Captain Cook, but he wasn't technically executed.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: He was like, I think ran down by like the native Hawaiians.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh, interesting.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know that ended up in Hawaii.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: I thought that was more of a Caribbean thing.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was I mean, we were the place where he died.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: But then they told us on the tour, they're like, Oh, did you know he drowned in three feet of water?
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, I always thought he was killed by natives, but maybe they killed him by drowning.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: I need to really How did he drown in three feet of water?
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: I think he was held under.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna bring up what's eating Gilbert crepe.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: If you know, you know that I'm like obsessed with this movie, but that was like part of the scene.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: They're like, he drowned.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: They're like, Yeah, the water was like a foot deep.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: And they're all like, he drowned.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And anyways, yeah, that's what Captain Cook was probably experiencing.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Everyone laughing at him afterwards.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, one of the best sailors in the world traveled the world multiple times and drowned in a couple feet of water.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: And again, you never know with the tour people if they're just playing things up and it's not super historic, like, but he did say too, back in the day, you didn't want sailors who knew how to swim because they were more likely likely to abandon ship.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: And the whole point was you wanted them on the ship.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: So, which I'm like, really?
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
6:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but that's what they told the tourists.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: They were like, Yeah, like they didn't really want sailors that could swim.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
6:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, take it.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Stay tuned.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, cool.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you're back.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Also, can we just give like a little round of applause to Elizabeth Black?
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: She took a red eye last night at 9 p.m.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: Hawaiian time.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: Hawaiian time, landed here in Phoenix about 6 a.m.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: this morning, came over to my well, was working and everything, came to my place around this afternoon.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: We continued to work from home, and then here, and we and then we just like got into podcasting right after.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: So I did take a tiny little nap.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: You did, and I was trying not to interrupt you, and then my stupid dog is just like trying to get attention and play with balls.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Did you hear her?
7:05
SPEAKER_00: She was like, I was like, Penny, shut up, shut up.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: It was nice just to rest my eyes for a second.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth is sleeping right now.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, yeah, today was weird for me too.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: Like speaking of work and working from home.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Um You had a big day today.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: I have a big emotional day, so I'm fine sharing.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Like a we know we're all friends here.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: We're all friends.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: I'll open up about my personal life, but I've been with the same company for over nine years in um as a customer support manager.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: And today was my last day.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Voluntarily, I will stress that because there's been a lot of moments when I know like thinking and you know, we just are grateful for our jobs and not knowing what's gonna happen.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: But um, which is kind of funny if you picked up on it, it was very slight.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: You said this little joke in the last episode that looked like listening back to recording, I I almost missed over it, but I was complaining about not winning the company talent show, which really am I when I was just listening off the names of presidents.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: I think it's good, it was great, and you made this little joke like you should just quit.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: Ironically, that day was the day that I put in, I put in like a three-week notice.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: So, all that said, like left on really, really good terms.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: It was just the end of an era, something else came up, and I'm just like, I'm ready for it.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: So I will I'm putting on my big girl pants.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: I've been wearing big girl pants, but they're gonna get a little bigger.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there you go.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Um taking on like a director role.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Um I work in home decor industry with being as vague as possible.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: So I'm nervous, I'm excited, I'm scared, out of my mind, don't be nervous.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't know anything new, but I'm ready for it.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm very excited about this, and but today was just emotional because it was all the goodbyes, and it didn't even though I gave a three-week notice, I almost feel like that's weirder because there was so much time to to like have everyone come forward and say something.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and to kind of take it in, but it w it really wasn't settling.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: And then um one of my close coworkers put together like a little farewell.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's all Zoom, it's all virtual.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: And I was like a little bit honored by how many people showed up.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were so funny, they all did their backgrounds really, really just showing that I don't hold back on my branding.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: All of their backgrounds were a combination of like things that make me me.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: And it was all pictures of King Henry VIII, Taylor Swift, my dog, nice, the Renfair like pictures, but it was like a combination of what makes me me.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: And then I realized just how maybe too vocal I am about my interests, yeah, about my love for history, my love for Anne Boleyn, my love for Taylor Swift.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna have an Anne Boleyn background.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: They it looks like they made several variations of backgrounds, and then everyone they chose one.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they all there was like choose from these four.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: I see.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was it just kind of got to me a little bit.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I'm gonna get emotional again.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, she's gonna cry.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: She's gonna cry out.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: No, it's just been a day, and it really hit me then when they're like, you know, if you've ever left a job that you've been at for a really long time, I mean, nine years.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: I think I was 25 when I started this year.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: I started in 2015.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: It it would have been 10 years this year.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a big part of your life, you know, and it's not just the company, obviously.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: It's all the people and it's the friends.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: That's how we met.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: That's how we met, yeah.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously it hasn't been the same since you haven't been there, but you know what it's like.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, like I just think from 25 to 35, how much I've gone through, how much things have changed.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: But when IT, when it got to that time when IT was just like, okay, it's time to wipe your computer, we're gonna start shutting you down, like you're gonna start losing access, and me just like frantically chatting, people saying, bye, like all this stuff.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna keep in touch with it.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: I obviously obviously I am.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Like we're all friends, it's just that moment of feeling like this last minute of like, did I forget something?
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's good, I don't know, maybe I just care too much.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, been very, very committed um well to the role.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: So letting go.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: It's exciting, it's a good thing, very good thing, you know.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: I can breathe a little bit right now.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's always fun to take on new challenges.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: It's like as humans, as people, as women, it's like you know, things are gonna change often, whether it's relationships or again becoming a mother, finding a new job, or moving.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Like there's you know, you're never gonna be a stagnant person of like, okay, this is who I am and this is who I'm gonna be the rest of my life.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Things things change, and sometimes you forget what the change feels like, you know, and you're like, oh wow, I'm risking it.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: I think I'll like it, but very excited for you.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're gonna get you a new wardrobe next week and we're gonna make you all she for your new.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't know about that.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: I have decided I'm gonna get my nails done.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: I never, ever, ever look how gross they are.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: I've been like holding back on it.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: You're fine.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: I like you, you know I do.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: I know, and you've inspired me by being so good about it.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna treat myself to a little manicure this week.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Don't look at them now because it's post-Hawaii.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: I like the color.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like a bronze.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: It's called tiramisu.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, yummy.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: Mine are just gross.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Tasty.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh anywho.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of tiramisu, I'm just kidding.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good transition.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know what you're gonna say.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, I was gonna go one direction.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Now I have to pivot because we have to mention one more thing before we start our episode.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Is um we've met we've plugged it before, but we are huge fans of author fan travel, which is a husband and wife team, and they plan trips all over the world with you know famous historians, famous authors.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we've talked about it before, but we recently went to Salt Lake City to see and meet Susanna Lipscomb.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: And they're uh they're releasing their lineup for 2026, and it is so exciting.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot going on.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Multiple trips are in the lineup right now.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: If any of these people are of interest to you or any of these locations, the Tudor Trio, which is of course like our faves, Dr.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: Owen Emerson, Kate McCaffrey, um Nicola.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we've got Susanna Lipscomb is back.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: Dan Jones is in the mix.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Heart throb.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: We've got Helen Castor, amazing, another amazing historian.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And they're doing river cruises.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the one for Dan Jones, I think is in April next year, and it's gonna be a river cruise through France.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have to look up the Susanna Lipscomb again one.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure that's the one.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: There's a couple that they're doing.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: There's one coming up soon where the spots are almost full that it's gonna be uh a river cruise, but they're doing another one in September with the Susanna with the Tudor Trio, and that's through Belgium and France.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's not doesn't sound like that's a river cruise, but hey, you get to like hit the road and travel with your favorite people.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: So I'm really hoping like my goal is I want to get on one of these.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I really do, I do.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but you should honestly look into it.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: It seems it's like a full package deal.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: You just have to take care of your flights and then any like dinner accommodations that they're not that's not included, but it's pretty well detailed out in the itineraries, and yeah, you go to really cool spots, and like what's better than having the expert there in front of you talking about what you're looking at.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: You're not going through a tour guide, you know.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: It's all planned out for you, they've got all the lodgings for you, and you're meeting other people that share the same passion.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Because it's I mean, I you guys know if you're a listener of the show, like how hard is it to find someone who has these weird interests like you.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
14:46
SPEAKER_00: It's like whether it's again, any era, a specific era in a history, whether it's like the macabre execution stuff like we do, you know, or just like again, like we're big tutor people, like it's it's hard to even have a conversation with people who don't even know what that means.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: When you're like, oh, I'm I'm really into tutor history, they're like, What?
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and like the the one with the tutor trio with Susanna Lipscomb through Belgium, Belgium and France, that is Anne Boleyn oriented.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: It's going through um like the the palace in France where she served Queen Claude and different areas of of Anne's life before she got back to England.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I just like and you get to hang out and actually meet not only the people who have similar interests, but like imagine becoming best friends with Dan Jones.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: Like just hypothetically, just fantasize for a moment.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: So this is your opportunity.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, check out author fan travel on social media, on Instagram.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: You can Google them.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll try I'll put the links in my like link tree thing.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I I posted one already.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: If you do sign up, do your girls a favor, mention Beheaded Podcast.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes, because we want to come and it will make a difference for us.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: If you do um use us as a referral, um, that's just just say the magic words, they're very personable, and you're not speaking with a big company again.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: It's it's a husband and wife team and they're fantastic.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: So they do a great job.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Check it out, look into it, make it put on your wish list, figure it out, go.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: That's what we're gonna do.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: So I thought you had mentioned terramasu because of like the going to Italy and Europe and whatever, but that's not what you were gonna say.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: I actually, my original transition was gonna be to take the tiramisu into ancient Rome.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh a little bit of a jump, but we're we're taking it back to ancient Rome today.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, is that why we have chariot red wine?
16:45
SPEAKER_02: Potentially.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: So on theme.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: Good job, Megan.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good job, Megan.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's from Hopeland, California.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm kidding.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: No, but um, yes, today we haven't done like we only covered one ancient Rome uh episode before in one ancient Greece episode.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: Really?
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: That's it?
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Oh dang.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: I know.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: So Does that really include the Colosseum stuff?
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was our Roman one.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's exciting to kind of uh revisit this era.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Um we're gonna be in the like 100 BC era.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's kind of the the end of the Roman Republic.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, so not quite as old as our Coliseum episode.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: But that's where we're starting off today, and our man of the evening is Meneas Aquilius.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: Good job.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like we we need to preface, and and this message is going specifically for our friend Stephanie.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes, sorry, Stephanie.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: Who's been on the show before, our friend who we we know is a uh historian who specializes in Roman history.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is an apology up front.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: I person I'm not gonna speak for Elizabeth, because you you're actually really, really great on this subject.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: I try.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: You but well, you like you've been immersed in it and you've been to Greece and you've and Italy and Rome and all that.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: I have not, and um I'm gonna I'm gonna chug my way through these names.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: The names are a little difficult.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: We really did practice this time.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: We really did.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna roll with it and we're gonna go into this with extreme confidence.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna go right into it.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you got this.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Alright.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: So, our man, Meneus Aquilius, so he was born roughly 129 BC.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: We say roughly because obviously this is a very long time ago, and we only know of his birth, um, because obviously, you know, record keeping was very different back then, because his father was at the time um serving as uh uh in a position called the Council.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: So he was the council to Rome, and we'll get into what that means in a second.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: But so both of them share the same name.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: So his father is senior uh Mannius Aquilius, and now we're talking about junior Mannius Aquilius, who's our again, star of the night.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Um but his father, Mannius Aquilius uh Senior, he was a few things, he had he held a few titles within Rome.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: He was the governor of Paragmom, which pergam um is in current, like modern times, it's considered like Western Turkey, which back then was still part of the Roman Empire.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I mentioned at the beginning, he was uh the count the Council of Rome in 129 BC.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And the Council of Rome was a very specific position at this time.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: It was actually the highest elected public um office at the time.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: And you co-owned this role with another person.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like being the president, but you're a co-president.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we could do that.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: I was looking at you like that thought just came to my brain.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that'd be fun.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: We should do that with that.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Do with your best friend.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, obviously, in this day and age of like, you know, people abusing power in certain ways, it would be nice to just be like, why don't we have some co-captains here?
19:58
SPEAKER_00: Some checks and balances, some checks and balances, you know, making sure that things are kind of vetted out and you're not just being a crazy person saying, hey, like, this is what we're gonna do today.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: You have another voice of reason to kind of come in.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: And that was the whole point is that even if you wanted to mandate something, your uh co-counsel could veto it and say, Yeah, we're we're not gonna do that.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's where it's different from like, for example, here in the States, president and vice president, because they're they were of equal power.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: I think there was technically two statuses, like you could be a junior if you were like either younger or less experienced, and maybe a senior if you were older or more experienced.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: But that didn't really dictate your power level.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I think you were both equally as powerful.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: You had some say.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: It was more of just so the general public kind of knew who was like more experienced.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so there was always two councils serving at one time, and you only had a one-year term.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty short.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Like a pretty short amount of time for someone to come to power uh, you know, with another person and get things done.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean they didn't live as long, right?
20:58
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: They didn't live as long.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: And I did read too that the Senate from the previous year already kind of told you what your main tasks would be.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like if you and I were elected, we would just go in and be like, what do you want to do today?
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Like there'd be a Senate who's like, hey, here's the goals for this year, like you two figure out how to get there.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: It's just wild that this is all a hundred years before even before our John the Baptist episode.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: So this is pretty old stuff.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: This is old.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: This is old.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: And they have this established government.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty structured happy.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh the only one thing I will say about senior uh Manus Aquilius is he was known a little bit to be kind of a shady leader in that, you know, maybe there was some bribery going on, he was accused of I know.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: When is there not?
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what politician isn't shady?
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Um but that you know, being accused of just some uh maladministration and things.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: So some people didn't have the best view of him.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: But go ahead.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just agreeing.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure, I understand.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that was the world that uh Mani uh Manius Aquilius Jr.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: was born into.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: So again, we don't know much about when he was very young because that wasn't really recorded or documented.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: But what we do know is when he was probably late teens, early 20s, became a loyal follower of this person named Gaius Marius.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: Gaius.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: So Gaius was kind of like the governor of West Turkey at the time.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: And he was in power between 104 to 102 BC.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh him and Gaius and I'm we're gonna call him Aquilius, our our man of the of the episode, Aquilius.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Gaius and Aquilius, they were like us.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: They were really good.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: They were BFFs, they were great friends, they were great partners.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, when Gaius would go off and do campaigning and other political motives in other areas, he would leave uh Aquilius to command over the Roman army.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: And both of them were very strong in military reform.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: They were both basically soldiers, and I think like that is the difference of Roman politics versus perhaps what we consider pol politicians today is they were commanders, they were fighters, they were warriors, they were warriors, they were there in the battle, and uh they were I don't want to assume that they were violent people, but that's just how it might be probably violent.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of battles and wars happening, and that was just how you would get your territory.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: And really quick, too, um, they weren't the same age, so Gaius was you know quite a bit older than Aquilius, which is why Aquilius kind of followed him.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: He he became a general in his army because he you know admired him so much from afar.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and Gaius also was like serving, I think, back-to-back terms as counsel.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: Which you're not supposed to do.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: You're not supposed to do.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna mention because I'm I said it was between 104 to 102 BC, and we just you're like, what are what are you saying?
24:00
SPEAKER_02: You literally just said that you get one year of term.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: But it was a little eh.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Gaius was being a little sketchy where he was saying, Well, people like me so much, I'm just gonna have another term.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't against the rules that you could have two terms, but you weren't really supposed to have two consecutive terms.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think their original rule to keep it fair for everybody was you're gonna serve your one year, then you have to wait ten years before you're even considered for another term.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: By then.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: Right?
24:28
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: You're in battle every other year, you don't know what's gonna happen.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but our our man Gaius, uh, he was just like, I'm just gonna keep being the council since people seem to like me, and I'm a great warrior, and you know, had a lot of admirers.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: So there was a lot of trust between Aquilius and Gaius.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: And like I said, when Gaius would have to go off and do other things, he would bring a lot of um responsibility over to Aquilius.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: So right now, Gaius and Aquilius are in the military together, they're fighting with the Roman army and um ready to like conquer the world.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying that in the lightest way possible.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and most of you have obviously heard of the Roman Empire.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, I always think about it.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: You always think about it.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: Every day, every day every day I think about it.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And they are known for conquering.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: So at this point, the main campaign that was going on at the time was uh Gaius really wanted to take on this area in what is modern France because he wanted to conquer the Germanic tribes that were there.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: So there was the Cimbri um peoples and there was the Tutans people.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Tutens the Tutans were very cute.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they were in Gaul, which again, this is like modern day France, but back then it was all just the Roman Empire.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Um so around 103 BC, Marius, who's kind of splitting his time between war and the con the consulship, he goes off, he runs for his like fourth consulship at the time.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and he just like again leaves Aquilius in charge.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: And so while he's gone, um they like they go through this big conquest of the Tutans and then another tribe, the Celtic tribe called the Ambrones, um, and they go through this big battle called the Battle of I hope I say this correctly, but Aqui Sexti.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: It's all very Latin and Roman, and I hope I say it right.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: We did a lot of research on pronunciations before this.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: But uh but uh Gaius comes back, they kind of have this big moment of glory together where they're like, you know, now they're both very recognized, like I, you know, the the councilship thing was going great with Gaius, so Gaius convinces Aquilius to come back and say, hey, what if we run together and we can just like be co-councils together?
26:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, power couple.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: Right?
26:41
SPEAKER_02: I know, I'm like, they're so cute.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: So they run together and they win together.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: Big surprise.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: So now they're equals.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, as we were saying, they're yes, one is older than the other, but they have equal power with how they are going to conquer the world and expand the Roman Empire.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of turbulation happening in all the countries around them, though.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: And Elizabeth did a good job, so correct me when I if I get this wrong at all, because as you were just saying, like Gaul, that is now France, a lot of these countries are uh we have to envision back in the old world.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: So what what we're familiar with today isn't necessarily the countries back then.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: So we are familiar with Sicily though.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: And Achilles is sent on a mission to go over to Sicily, Italy, and there's basically a big slave revolt that's breaking out.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: The reason for the revolt, we have to rewind a little bit to understand what's happening.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Gaius is going into battle, and he turns to another king.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: King Nicomedes III of say the name Bithhnia.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Bithhnia, thank you.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Which is, if you look at a map of current-day Turkey, it's like the northwest part of Turkey, kind of on the shoreline of the Black Sea.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Gaius, he goes to King Nicodamia.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: I just I had a Nicomedes.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: Think of like Archimedes.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Archimedes, Nicomedes.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: We can also call him Nico if that's true.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: Can we just say Nico?
28:10
SPEAKER_02: I know that's probably not uh appropriate, but Stephanie's cringing.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: Stephanie, just turn it off, okay?
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Just now is now is your final warning before you really just want to throw your headphones across the room.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so he turns to this king Nico and he says, Hey, I need soldiers and I'm recruiting them.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: And Nico was like, Well, tough luck.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: All of my able-bodied men have become enslaved because they can't pay the damn taxes.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh Lord.
28:40
SPEAKER_02: So the Roman Senate goes, that's fine, we'll figure it out.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: Because quite frankly, that was true.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: All of their young men turned into slaves.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't laugh over that.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: So they put through a new law where they end up freeing just this one particular area of slaves where they free about 800 men because the intent is for them to become soldiers.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, this just kind of pisses everyone else off.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: A, it angers the plantation owners who owned the slaves because they're like, well, shoot, now we don't have any any men to work our plantations.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: What a baffling idea is to pay someone or do it yourself.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Also, a stupid question.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: What?
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Is plantation like an American word, or can you use that in any kind of farming realm?
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Because like you know, that's a good, I just kind of associate like farm ownership.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: As Americans, we say plantations, but like if they're just like farm owners, I don't know, I don't know the word.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: I think it's just like sounds so bad.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: Like the slave owners, I guess we could say that.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: The farmers, the owners, the landowners.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: They're upset.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: But also, not only that, all of the other slaves in surrounding areas who didn't get freed for this reason because they don't need to be recruited into an army, which evidently they would prefer to be in the army, which you're all whatever, the whole thing's messed up.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're also mad.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: So then the Roman Senate goes, fine, fine, fine.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: All right, let's reverse what we just said.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: I get it.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: I hear you.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: This isn't fair.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's play fair here.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: So then they enslave them again.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: And so now everybody's mad.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Now they're mad because they were freed and then enslaved again.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: The other people are mad because they weren't freed, and then the farm owners are mad.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: So a big revolt breaks out.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's pissed.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: Everyone is pissed.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: And it's not just a small rebellion, right?
30:27
SPEAKER_02: They get up to 40,000 people fighting in this rebellion.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: Um there's they actually are pretty successful at one point.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: And that's when Gaius goes, yo, Aquilius, go down there, go take care of it, figure it out, take care of it.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: And he did.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: However, he did it, likely with a lot of soldiers and blood.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: Um he broke it up.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: He did, and I don't think it actually took him very long because uh he defeated uh who I I believe he was kind of the leader of the rebel rebellion, um, named uh Athenon of Sicilia.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: And it said, like in our research, that he defeated him in a single combat.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm assuming that's like one battle, really.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm just picturing like a movie scene where they have the one final, like the boss battle.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Boss battle.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: And everyone else is kind of fighting in slow motion around them.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of blood, there's a lot of clanging, there's a lot of mud, and then they make eye contact with each other across the way, and then at all the big music comes in.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: Who's they, the soldiers fighting together?
31:30
SPEAKER_02: No, the um Aquilius and the other dude you said.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I see.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, because they're fighting.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: This is my I'm setting the scene.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: They come charging at each other slow motion, they go, and then everyone's slow motion, and then they kind of look over, and then they realize that they're fighting each other, and then one kills the other, but then he doesn't quite die, and then someone else comes up and has to sit, anyways.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're taking single combat, like really like hand-to-hand combat very little.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: I think that's what happened.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Just I'm trying to contribute as much as I contribute could be because you know the story way better than I know.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: No, that's helpful.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: Hey, you you could be a director, look at your vision.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: The only other thing I will add to this rebellion before we move on from it about how amazing Aquillis is because he did exactly what Gaius wanted him to do and break up the rebellion.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: They took a thousand of these re rebels, so a thousand men, they turned them to the um to the gladiator games.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: That's insane.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which to me, like obviously we talked about it, we did an episode on it.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: We know the gladiators were real.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: We know that they were pretty much slaves or convicts of some sort or someone who ended up there against their own will and circumstances.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, but this is a great example of a group of people who would have ended up in the games because they were rebels that came from the Sicily revolt.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: That's a tough life.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: You're either a slave, a soldier, or uh you know, thrown in the Coliseum.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's when Russell Crowe comes in.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll we'll conclude you there.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: We've all seen Gladiators.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm about good on my part.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna sit back, drink my wine, and let Elizabeth take it on home.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: No, no, you come in at a very crucial part, which we'll get to.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Um but this this victory was so uh memorable that there was actually coins printed to commemorate this specific like squashing of the rebellion.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So there it did, it didn't happen for like another decade, so it's not like they put these coins in circulation right away.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: But about a decade or so later, they um had these commemorative coins, and on one side of the coin was like a warrior, which may or may not have been Aquilius, but essentially a Roman warrior with this big shield, and in his other hand, he's like holding like a fallen um Sicilian, like a person who's dying on the battlefield, and it's like this you know, limp little character that he's holding.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: That's the scene I was describing.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Good job.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: They put it on a coin.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: He did.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: And it's nice that they waited a little bit to like let the dust settle some.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Like they might be rubbing salt into wounds if we just be like, hey, you gotta use these coins now on top of being a loser.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they were that nice.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I think it just took them a while to get them printed.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: But um anyway, so so if you want to look it up, it's a really cool little uh picture, you know, of of Aquilius like in this big moment of battle.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: However, by 98 BC, and remember our numbers are going down because we're getting closer to year zero, um, but by 98 BC, there was more whisperings of discontent about Aquilius.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: I think some people who again really didn't like his father before him thought, oh, we're just gonna get the same type of guy who's a little bit sketchy with his government dealings, you know, the the word, the word maladministration was thrown around again.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: And some people even accused him of like extortion, specifically when he was in Sicily.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: And it was mostly coming from this orator, uh, I believe he was in the Senate, named Lucius.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Don't laugh at the last name, Megan.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Fufius.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: Did he fight the tutus?
35:04
SPEAKER_00: The tutis?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of cute little words in here.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: Say the name again.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Lucius Fufius, F-U-F-I-U-S.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: The only vision I have right now is Lucius Malfoy with his little bow in his hair.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: The Fufi bow bow.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so now whenever I see what Chamber of Secrets, I'm just gonna think Lucius Fufius.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Make that a meme.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so people started kind of coming at him, but mostly led by this Lucius fellow.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Fufius.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna keep saying I know you will.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh Gaius came to the rescue, and the current council at the time in 99 BC, uh, he's a he's a man named Marcus Antonius.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: They both kind of like worked together to really like dismiss these rumors and say, no, no, he's fine.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: He didn't do anything shady in Sicily.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: So he was actually acquitted.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, Aquilius was acquitted.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it was more so because he was still a very popular figure, like they had these coins minted, you know, everyone's like still in admiration of him.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: So he he got off kind of scot-free there.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: But now there comes a big moment where we're getting into around 90 BC, so Aquilius is in his late 30s, and Aquilius is being asked to be essentially an ambassador to Asia Minor.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Asia Minor is now modern-day Turkey, so uh it's like right above the Mediterranean Sea, I will say east of Greece and then like south of the Black Sea.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the landmass we're talking about, which again it wasn't Turkey then, it is Turkey now.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so Aquilius was sent there and they told him a few things.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: They said, Okay, one thing we want you to do is we have, and you mentioned Nic uh Nicomedes.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh so Nicomedes III, who mentioned Megan mentioned in the Sicilian Rebellion Rebellion, he dies and he has this kind of like young son, uh Nicomedes IV.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: So Nicomedes IV was recently kicked out of northwest Turkey where he was in the Bithnea area, and he was expelled by a person named Mithridates.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: So Mithridates um is this very powerful figure who's in uh Northeast Turkey, right along the coast of the Black Sea, and he's had this career so far of kind of conquering different areas around the Black Sea, and he is very anti-like Roman rule.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Like he's really active in making sure they're preserving kind of the Greek cultures that are there that are settled in modern day Turkey, and he doesn't really want anyone who is remotely on Rome's side to come over in his turf.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: I can't figure out who is like quote unquote the villain in this whole story.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: I just feel like everybody is out for blood.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Whether it's Greeks or Romans, the Celtics, everybody is just fighting each other.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: There, yeah.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, this is the time of Roman expansion, right?
38:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like Rome is still trying to push its boundaries.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and some people succumb and some people revolt, and some people, you know, fight against them and say, no, like we have these powerful leaders and our are already thriving societies, like we don't want to be a part of this.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh Mithridates, he uh again, he expels Nicodemus IV, and then Achilles comes and says, No, we're gonna make sure that he's back in his rightful area.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And not only that, he wanted to push the boundaries further into Mithridates' territory, which was called Pontus.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Pontus is again that area that's the northern part of Turkey?
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, north northeast Turkey, right by the Black Sea.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: And so he's now kind of doing it to piss him off.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Like to, you know, to piss Mithridates off.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: He's like, he's like, okay, we're gonna actually go further into your territory.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: And up until this point, uh Mithridates, he again he doesn't like Romans, but he has typically retreated anytime they kind of come close to his area.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: And this is the first time that he's like, you know what, like, no, not this time.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: This is not gonna happen.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And fun fact before we get further into the story, if you've ever heard of the term uh Mithridatism, I haven't.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, I just learned about this, but it comes from Mithridates because what he did was he regularly would take tiny amounts of like sublethal poison because he wanted to be immune to poisoning.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: He was like a little paranoid that way.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Sounds like every jerky guy who thinks that he can combat death and become the best and just take all of your vitamins and steroids and whatever.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: That's just how I'm comparing this in my brain.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, he's such a narcissist that he feels like, oh, I can actually beat poison.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: So how did that work out for him?
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, we don't get to the end of his life in this story.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: But just that's a fun fact about him is that he took like a regular little dose of poison just to be immune from poisons.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't that be ironic though, if he did die from that act of poisoning himself?
40:08
SPEAKER_02: I believe he did later.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean we don't get there because our story ends before that.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh shoot.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: So we might have to Google that afterwards.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: But I think he I again I don't wanna it's either him or one of his descendants, but someone was poison.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: One of them will kill themselves with poison.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure if it was him, it took some time because he's quite immune.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, but the the act of taking small amounts of poison with the idea that it will it will produce immunity is called uh Mithri again, I'm gonna say it hopefully correctly.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Mithridatism, I'm gonna say that.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that's pretty darn good.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Moving on to the story.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so uh Mithridates gets really upset by this, right?
40:47
SPEAKER_00: So this actually begins the first Mithridatic war, and it was essentially the wars that were going to challenge the Roman the Roman Republic from expanding into their area and the overall like rule of the Greek world.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: So Aquiles is kind of gonna show a s a flex of strength, and he's gonna march on with a bunch of not even Romans, he kind of recruits people from modern day Turkey, and he says, Hey, like, who wants to take up arms and be with the Roman em um empire and we're gonna go against Mithridates here?
41:20
SPEAKER_00: So he's able to recruit, I wanna say it was like I think it was a fair amount of people, I think it was maybe like 150,000 troops.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: That's decent.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And he also makes a pact with um one of the Roman governors who's in the south part of Turkey, and he uh this the southern Turkey governor agrees to invade from the south.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: So they think they're gonna have this whole like battle, they're gonna defeat Mithridates, and like that's just gonna be become a part of Rome.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna put again Nicodemus back in his rightful air um area and all all is well in the Roman world.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: You go there and you go here and I go there, and now we stay.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: Very not what happened, is it?
41:57
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: So unfortunately, um they were vastly outnumbered.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: And not only that, but their army wasn't a disciplined army, and they were going it up against these very disciplined, very menacing men that Mithridates had had cultivated over time.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: So it was an easy win for Mithridates.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, wiped him out.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: Um immediately, Aquiles, after all of his conquering and all of his fame, flees.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: Flees immediately, he's trying to get back to Italy, but instead he only makes it as far as like uh the Greek Isle of Lesbos.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: And at this point, Mithridates is now trying to go on this campaign to all of the Greek world saying, Hey, I'm the protector of the Greek culture, I'm the protector of Greek lands.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: So he tells anyone in uh Lesbos, he's like, hey, if you have um Aquiles, if you know of his whereabouts, like, you know, there'll there might be rewards or something for you, there's clemency if you were harboring him illegally, like, you know, bring him forth and we'll make sure you're you and your family are taken care of.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: So the Greek citizens easily give him up.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: They're like, we have no loyalty to this Roman guy.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: And they make a mockery of him.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: As soon as he's back under control of Mithridates and his people, um, they actually place him on a donkey.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: They put him on a donkey and they parade him through Western Turkey, um, in the same area where his dad was the governor in Pergamon.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: So Pergamon people already hate uh Man Manius Aquiles Sr.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Because again, he was a very unfair ruler to them.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: He really taxed them heavily.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: So when they he see his son, who was just defeated in battle, who essentially fleed battle, uh fled battle, you know, and now he's being brought in on a donkey, they're all just like pointing and laughing at him.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: They're probably throwing tomatoes at him.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't picture that.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: If they had tomatoes.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe some olive oil.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so yeah, so they they're loving this, and uh, there's not a ton of Of detail on this next part, but this is the juiciest part of it all.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: This is the part that you listen to Beheaded for.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: This story I think was interesting because there's a lot of buildup to know who this person was.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: I personally am like You talk about Achilleus.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just to understand who he was, what he was about, and then just the climate of what was happening with the Roman Empire.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Um something else that we know about the Romans is they were very creative with how they wanted to punish people.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: Like let's look at the Gladiator games.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: They it was all about a spectacle.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: It was about carnage.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: It was very symbolic.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: It was about they wanted somebody to really be uh put on a spectacle of a form of entertainment, and also uh, as all torture and execution tends to be, kind of a don't do this because this is what could happen to you.
44:55
SPEAKER_02: A warning.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: A warning to everyone.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: So this is how they decide that Achilles obviously has some sort of a mock trial and then is sentenced to death.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: He is sentenced to have molten gold poured down his throat.
45:12
SPEAKER_02: Ew.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: Let me just repeat that and let that sink in.
45:17
SPEAKER_02: Let it seep into you.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: He had burning, hot, melted down gold poured into his mouth.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: What a waste of a fine metal.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even think of that.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Like gold is a scarce resource.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: You're just pouring it down some dude's.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: That's how much they hated him.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: It was a very symbolic measure.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: It was.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: By doing so, it's mocking the fact of how thirsty he was for wealth and riches.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: So me and my little brain.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm just thinking, how does that actually work?
45:51
SPEAKER_02: And how does one actually die from that?
45:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like what happens physically.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: And thankfully, there's an article on the Smithsonian Museum website where um some people were also curious based on this story, and they did some research.
46:08
SPEAKER_02: I would like to preface with their research, as they were very clear about no humans or animals were harmed in their research.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: In the making of this research.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: In the making of, but they basically did recreate what would happen with a unalived sorts of a specimen.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: So um a few things happened.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: What would probably be the most is your body goes into shock.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: And instantly it would be burning your lungs, your throats.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: And most likely that's what's going to kill you first is just the burning of your lungs.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: However, there's also this interesting steam effect that would take place.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: And your internal organs and your bowels likely would have burst.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully you're dead by this point.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: You're probably dead.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: But you never know.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it'd be like, I feel like it would solidify quickly, right?
47:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know if because your internal temperature is fairly warm.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty warm.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: But like, I mean, and again, you read the article, so you know more about this, but I feel like I would just choke on it before anything.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: So if it wasn't burning all of that and you didn't explode, correct, the last part of it would be it would solidify.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: And then assuming you're dead at this point, but if for whatever reason you haven't been killed yet, it would uh totally block your larynx and your passage by just turning into solid gold.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: In your body.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
47:37
SPEAKER_00: What if they like had this artifact somewhere?
47:40
SPEAKER_00: What if they dissected peeled off the skin and then had like if he decayed enough and it's just the form of the gold, like as it kind of went through his body.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: That would be really cool to see.
47:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to get incredibly twisted and dark.
47:55
SPEAKER_02: You can judge me.
47:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
47:56
SPEAKER_02: Come at me.
47:57
SPEAKER_02: Come at me.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: It's our last day of work.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: You don't care.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: The things that and whatever.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Um there's all these interesting things of what to do with your body after your soul has left, right?
48:09
SPEAKER_02: Like some people want to be turned into a tree.
48:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
48:11
SPEAKER_02: They want to be turned into a diamond, and that's a really popular, expensive version.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: No, thanks.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: I personally always thought mummification was interesting.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: There's a place in Florida that just still does it, evidently.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: There's like the Viking funeral.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: What if?
48:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying, I'm just putting it out there.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh-oh.
48:27
SPEAKER_02: What if you get like a cask formed of yourself in gold?
48:31
SPEAKER_02: That sounds very expensive too.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, worth it.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: Worth it though.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: Keep it in your living room.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: You would want an internal one or a one on the outside?
48:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how that would work.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: The one on the outside would be cool, and which is is a really good transition because if you aren't thinking it, I'll say it because this is what we were thinking of.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Does this not sound like Game of Thrones in the first season when Daenerys's spoiler, if you again keep mentioning Game of Thrones this season?
48:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we do.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, Daenerys's brother gets molten gold poured over his head.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Same it's basically the same execution.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, you know, we talked about this on our a Black D was it Black Dinner episode?
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because that was our red wedding episode.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: That was our our red our red wedding.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: But um Martin, the author, you know, he's said, he's like, yeah, history's worse than what I write.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: Like it's you know, it's well most of this has happened at some point or another.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: I he's got to have had inspiration through how Romans evidently, you know, performed their capital punishment in some way or form.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
49:37
SPEAKER_02: They he also had like the um the games in it too at some point, like later on in the seasons.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: They had gladiator like games where that got very graphic.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but anyways, all that said, yeah um, if you saw that episode and you're like, no, yes, that could happen, and that did happen, and that happened to our man Aquili I already forgot his name, Aquilius.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: Armanius Aquilius.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: Armanius Aquilius.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: Not to be confused with our Gaius Marius.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: I know we were gonna call him Manius and Marius.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna get way too confusing.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: So Aquilius and Gaius is what we settled on.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Um But I think we did okay with pronunciation.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: I think we did.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Um at least it was consistent.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Whether or not it was accurate, I don't know, but it was consistent.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: Um last thing kind of to wrap up, so you know, bodies full of molten gold.
50:29
SPEAKER_02: We still have our the villain of the story, though they're all villains, um, Mithridates.
50:35
SPEAKER_02: He so again, he is pro-Greek, and he has now basically taken over what is modern-day Turkey.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
50:44
SPEAKER_02: And the Romans and the Italians are still living there.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: And first thing he does is he wants to make sure that his Greek people are very supportive of him and empathetic towards him, and they're gonna do whatever he says, so he's gotta make him happy.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: First thing he implements is a five-year tax holiday.
51:05
SPEAKER_02: That's nice.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: Just to kind of make up for all the terrible taxes at the Romans, which was true.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: They did implement a lot of taxes.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: So he gives them a five-year holiday.
51:15
SPEAKER_02: Could you imagine five years where you don't have to pay taxes?
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: You don't you do just about anything after that, which is what he did.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: He asked for something awful.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: He he did.
51:25
SPEAKER_02: He kind of asked for the worst.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: He then sends a letter to all of the Greek soldiers and he says, wait for 13 days once you get this letter.
51:37
SPEAKER_02: On the 13th day, any man, woman, child who is Roman or Italian, do him out.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: Kill him.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: Kill him.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the biggest genocides happened after this.
51:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Where approximately 80,000 Greek um the Greeks murdered the Romans and Italians, again, just civilians, just whoever they came across.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: It was perfectly legal, and they were instructed to just go on a rampage.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, rampage.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: Rampage, thank you.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: But a rampage too.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: How sad.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: That is awful.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it's sad to know too, you know, since the dawn of time, what what can happen with the right motivation.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: It's like if you have this leader who promises, like, oh, like, no taxes, and you know, I'm gonna do all this stuff for the good of our people, blah, blah, blah.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of it, he's like, Yeah, by the way, you gotta murder every Roman and Italian you see.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: And they did it.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: And they did it, yeah.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm shocked you and I didn't know about that specific genocide because that's a big one.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: That's a big one.
52:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's our story.
52:42
SPEAKER_02: You, I hope with that we absolutely make you think about the Roman Empire moving forward every day.
52:49
SPEAKER_02: At least once a day for the next week.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: At least for the next week.
52:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, let this story settle in.
52:54
SPEAKER_02: Molten lava, not molten lava, molten gold, pour down throughout.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, let it let it sink in like molten gold.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Let that sink in.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's a it's an interesting one.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: And again, like I I love when we go back to anything that's BC and we've had such uh a few amount of those episodes.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, I said we had one Egyptian, we've actually had two Egyptians.
53:17
SPEAKER_02: We had the um the break-ins, the two raiders, yeah.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh head on out.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: It's it's crazy to me that they even are able to keep history that there's even records of what happened.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: Because we lose records just from things that happened in the 1700s or the sixteen hundreds.
53:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: And here we are.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: What what would that be?
53:39
SPEAKER_02: Two thousand one hundred and twenty-five years ago, we still have records of what happened.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: It is impressive.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, say what you want about the Roman Empire, good or bad, but the fact that we still have a lot of that history and know so much about the culture does say a lot into in terms of just how much did survive.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: Pretty crazy.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: Any final thoughts on the Roman Empire?
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, after my red eye flight and everything today.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: You want some gold pour down your to say, yeah, I'm gonna go take a shot of gold and pass out.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: So, not today.