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Katie Woolf spoke with Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, yesterday we covered extensively the statement released by Brett Dixon,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the chairman of the Darwin Turf Club, saying that he's
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: launched legal action to overturn findings of the recent Eykak report. Now,
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  Speaker 1: in the statement, mister Dixon claims that's the decision by
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  Speaker 1: the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner and his cabinet ministers to
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  Speaker 1: give the Darwin Turf Club twelve million dollars was made
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  Speaker 1: the same morning the club put forward its submission for
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: funding support. Now in the statement he said, I do
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  Speaker 1: not know what material Cabinet considered beyond the submission provided
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: by the management of the club. The workings of cabinet
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  Speaker 1: are the subject of acclaim for public interest immunity, so
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  Speaker 1: they can't be inquired into and they cannot be reported
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  Speaker 1: on unless, of course, the government waives that immunity. In
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  Speaker 1: the interests of transparency, the leader of the opposition, Leofanocchio,
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  Speaker 1: says the Chief Minister must waive cabinet confidentiality and publicly
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  Speaker 1: release the document relied on by the Cabinet to approve
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  Speaker 1: this twelve billion dollar grandstand deal. Leah Finocchiaro joins me
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  Speaker 1: in the studio right Now good morning to.
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  Speaker 2: You lead Come morning Katie into your listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Leah, you've been calling for weeks for this to happen.
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  Speaker 1: Why do you think that it's so important in your opinion,
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  Speaker 1: that the government releases the document that they relied on
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  Speaker 1: to make this decision.
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  Speaker 3: Look, this sorry saga has been going on for weeks, Katie,
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  Speaker 3: and it's dogging the government, and it's dogging everything that
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  Speaker 3: happens from the government. I mean, it really puts a
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  Speaker 3: cloud over every grant process, every decision to grant money.
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  Speaker 3: We've got conflicting information coming out from government. Of course,
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  Speaker 3: Natasha Files, Nicole Madison and Michael Gunner continue to lie
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  Speaker 3: to Territorians that this somehow followed a normal and appropriate
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  Speaker 3: cabinet process. The only way for government to clear the air,
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  Speaker 3: because let's face it, no one believes their version of
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  Speaker 3: events is to show Territorians what it was that went
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  Speaker 3: into cabinet.
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  Speaker 2: Now, it is in the public interest.
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  Speaker 3: When you talk about public interest immunity, it is in
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  Speaker 3: the public interest to know that the government has integrity.
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  Speaker 3: It's in the public and just to know that every grant,
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  Speaker 3: every decision doesn't have that cloud over it. So the
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  Speaker 3: only way for Michael Gunner and his cabinet to get
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  Speaker 3: out of this is to stump up some proof that
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  Speaker 3: they did everything by the.
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  Speaker 4: Look, I agree.
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  Speaker 1: I do think that it's vital that or that it
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  Speaker 1: is a vital missing piece really in this puzzle which
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  Speaker 1: needs clarification. But many have raised concerns that releasing cabinet
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  Speaker 1: documentation sets a precedent.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, if you were in government, would you.
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  Speaker 1: Be happy for if let's say, you know, down the track,
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  Speaker 1: if there's a decision made that territorians think is not
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  Speaker 1: quite right, would you be happy to do the same thing.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's the only way forward. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: if you've got nothing to hide, what's the big deal.
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  Speaker 3: If this really genuinely did get circulated to all departments,
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  Speaker 3: have all of the department feedback, Ministers were briefed, if
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  Speaker 3: it followed all of the processes, which you know, Katie,
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  Speaker 3: anyone can just find on the website.
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  Speaker 2: It's in the Cabinet handbook, it's online.
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  Speaker 3: You can see the cabinet process, or what's supposed to
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  Speaker 3: be the cabinet process.
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  Speaker 2: Then what have they got to heide?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we haven't had any of them, say not
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  Speaker 3: even which departments provided feedback, What the nature of the
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  Speaker 3: feedback was, How if any Treasury advice was provided, What
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  Speaker 3: did that Treasury advice say. I mean, perhaps they don't
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  Speaker 3: have to cough up the whole kitten kaboodle, but they're
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  Speaker 3: not giving us anything, and that just all points to
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  Speaker 3: they've got something to hide.
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  Speaker 1: Now you've said that it was Michael Gunner who waived
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  Speaker 1: proper process and scrutiny of the submission by bringing it
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  Speaker 1: well under the arm to cabinet. It was Michael Gunner
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  Speaker 1: who forced his labor colleagues to approve the Dodgy deal.
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  Speaker 1: It was Michael Gunner and his cabinet that decided twelve
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  Speaker 1: million dollars would be given away as a lump sum
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  Speaker 1: and not proceed as market led as a market lead proposal.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think so that Michael Gunner is
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  Speaker 1: squarely responsible here?
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  Speaker 2: I think it's Michael Gunner in the entire cabinet.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we've even seen this morning, Natasha far was
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  Speaker 3: coming back out again to throw the Chief Minister under
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  Speaker 3: the bar, saying reconfirming it was Michael Gunner who brought
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  Speaker 3: this into cabinet. Allegedly, no other cabinet minister had any
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  Speaker 3: prior knowledge of this document magically appearing in cabinet just
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  Speaker 3: a couple of hours before it was set for a decision.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it's a fascical joke. No one
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  Speaker 3: with any credibility could continue to run these types of lines.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it just doesn't hold water.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't meet the pub test, it doesn't meet any standard.
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  Speaker 2: Justifiable standard.
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  Speaker 3: You know, this government has lost the plot on this
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  Speaker 3: one and continue to try and dig itself out of
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  Speaker 3: a hole.
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  Speaker 4: Lea.
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  Speaker 1: I guess by what you're saying, it sounds as though
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  Speaker 1: you're taking the DAR and Turf Club chair Brett Dixon's
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  Speaker 1: word here and suggesting that the ICAC investigation was not
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  Speaker 1: an objective process. I mean, are you calling into question
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  Speaker 1: then the IKAC itself.
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  Speaker 3: No, So what we've looked at, of course, we've read
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  Speaker 3: the IQAQ report, We've read mister Dixon's statement, We've looked
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  Speaker 3: at the other information that's come to light, and it
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  Speaker 3: seems very clear mister Dixon's statement lines up with the
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  Speaker 3: IQAQ report and shows that the Turf Club, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it was Michael Gunner who wanted this information to get
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  Speaker 3: into cabinet.
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  Speaker 2: It was Mike Gunner who got this done.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we've got his cabinet ministers saying it wasn't us.
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  Speaker 3: You've got the Turf Club saying it wasn't us. You've
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  Speaker 3: got Iks saying that government only received the submission from
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  Speaker 3: the Turf Club on the thirteenth of June, in that
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  Speaker 3: afternoon of the thirteenth of June. So all of that
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  Speaker 3: information together supports what territories have been thinking the whole time,
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  Speaker 3: which was this is Michael Gunner's baby.
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  Speaker 2: He needed to get it done. Prior to the twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty election.
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  Speaker 3: He was on the nose, he needed something in his
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  Speaker 3: electorate and he just wanted to push it through. And
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  Speaker 3: I mean this morning, Natasha Files has said as much
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  Speaker 3: as that. She said, well, the Chief Minister brought it
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  Speaker 3: in and we supported him.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we will be catching up with Minister Files in
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  Speaker 1: a few minutes time. The investigation, though, it did still
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  Speaker 1: find that five people, including Brett Dixon, didn't act appropriately.
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  Speaker 1: So do you think those findings are wrong?
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  Speaker 2: Look, no, we've.
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  Speaker 3: Got no basis to believe otherwise.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we've read the IK report.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously, mister Dixon is commencing his own proceedings in the
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  Speaker 3: Supreme Court, which is entirely a matter for him and
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  Speaker 3: that will go through its couse. What we know is
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  Speaker 3: that the Iykak report couldn't look at government. And at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day, Kadie, when everything else is
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  Speaker 3: said and done, there are only nine people who can
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  Speaker 3: make the decision to give away twelve million dollars. There
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  Speaker 3: are only nine people who can give it away as
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  Speaker 3: a lump sum, who can stop it from going through
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  Speaker 3: the market led proposal process as diligent public servants were
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  Speaker 3: busily working on for a long period of time. You know,
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  Speaker 3: it is only Michael Gunner and his team who could
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  Speaker 3: approve this. They are the ultimate board who should resign,
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  Speaker 3: and the fact that they haven't just shows how little
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  Speaker 3: integrity they have and how little regard for good governance
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  Speaker 3: they have.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 1: we're not going to have a situation where a whole
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  Speaker 1: cabinet resigns. You know, we're not going to wind up
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  Speaker 1: with the whole cabinet resigning. Here, it sounds like you
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  Speaker 1: still think the findings of the IKAK should stand.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh well, look, I mean these things will get
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  Speaker 3: tested in the Supreme Court that's a matter for you know,
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  Speaker 3: the judicial system. But what we're really focused on is
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  Speaker 3: the timeline. The timeline speaks for its Mister Dixon's version
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  Speaker 3: of events essentially supports what the ikak's version of events
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  Speaker 3: were up until that point of making that decision. And
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  Speaker 3: the government can't escape the fact that they're the ones
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  Speaker 3: who gave it away. No one else in the universe
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  Speaker 3: can give away twelve million dollars.
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  Speaker 2: Take Pam.
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  Speaker 1: That's the point that you're really trying to make here
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  Speaker 1: is the fact that the IKAC cannot look into the
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  Speaker 1: cabinet decision making process and cannot look into the information
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  Speaker 1: that went into cabinet.
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  Speaker 4: And that's really what you're questioning.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, so you know, obviously it shows that the you know,
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  Speaker 3: the k report shows that the Chief Minister, the Natasha files,
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  Speaker 3: Nicole Madison, they all had various meetings. I mean Nicole
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  Speaker 3: Manison has mentioned upwards of twelve times in the IQAQ
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  Speaker 3: report up until March twenty nineteen. Now she's come out
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  Speaker 3: and said, oh, I've got a conflict and that's why
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  Speaker 3: I didn't sit inside cabinet and make the decision. Well,
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  Speaker 3: when was her conflict up until March twenty nineteen. It
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  Speaker 3: seems to me she stepped out right at the last
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  Speaker 3: minute because she knew that as a true measurer, this
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  Speaker 3: was going to be an unpalatable thing for her to
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  Speaker 3: have dirty hands on. I mean, it shows that government
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  Speaker 3: knew about this, It shows that government had involvement. Mister
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  Speaker 3: Leonardi's statement says he was acting under following instructions as
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  Speaker 3: an employee you would expect an employee to do. And
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  Speaker 3: of course now we've had other cabinet ministers throw the
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  Speaker 3: Chief Minister under the bus in saying well, actually yeah,
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  Speaker 3: he brought it under the arm in cabinet, which means
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  Speaker 3: it didn't follow proper process and the timeline, which mister
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  Speaker 3: Dixon and the IKAC show it's impossible that that submission
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  Speaker 3: from the turf Club was properly vetted and scrutinized for
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  Speaker 3: the government to be able to base any decision to
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  Speaker 3: give away twelve million bucks.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we will certainly make sure that we ask some
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  Speaker 1: more questions on that with the Minister for Racing, Gaming
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  Speaker 1: and Licensing.
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  Speaker 4: Natasha files in a few minutes time.
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  Speaker 1: But look, it is being reported today that some of
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  Speaker 1: the Darwin Turf Club board are planning to put their
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  Speaker 1: hand up for those board positions. Again, do you think
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  Speaker 1: that that's appropriate.
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  Speaker 3: Well, this is a it's just like any other sporting club,
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  Speaker 3: and they answered to their members and so it's really
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  Speaker 3: a matter for those individuals if they feel like they
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  Speaker 3: haven't done the wrong thing. Perhaps perhaps many of them
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  Speaker 3: were not part of it, Katie. I mean, that's the
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  Speaker 3: other thing. The Gunner government came out straight away and
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  Speaker 3: called for their resignations, but some of the members on
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  Speaker 3: that board might not have been a board member at
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  Speaker 3: the time of any of these things taking place. So
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  Speaker 3: it will be up to the Turf Club membership to
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  Speaker 3: really decide, you know, who who stays and who goes.
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  Speaker 1: So I do still think it's appropriate if there are
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  Speaker 1: some that put their hands up that that is okay.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's a matter for the membership, you know, I'm
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  Speaker 3: not a member. That's something for the punters of the
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  Speaker 3: territory who believe in the Turf Club and support that
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  Speaker 3: sporting body to decide on the individual merits. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I don't even know who's on the Turf Club board
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  Speaker 3: or who was on it, so I can't comment as
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  Speaker 3: to their involvement or lack of involvement. But what we
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  Speaker 3: know is there are some very disgruntled former board members
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  Speaker 3: who think it's just completely unfair that government of use
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  Speaker 3: them as the scape go But guess.
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  Speaker 1: What I'm getting to is there'll be some people listening
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  Speaker 1: thinking to themselves.
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  Speaker 4: Will it's one thing for you to call for the
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  Speaker 4: whole of.
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  Speaker 1: The cabinet, you know, to stand aside or that they're
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  Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing, but they're not do the same
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  Speaker 1: with the turf Club.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: But again, I just go back to you know, we're
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  Speaker 3: now in two thousand and one, So how many of
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  Speaker 3: the individuals on the current or you know, the most
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  Speaker 3: recent current Turf Club board were actually there in twenty
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: nineteen or twenty twenty. I don't know the answer to that,
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  Speaker 3: and certainly there's different versions of events. So what I'm saying,
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  Speaker 3: just like with any other whether it's your rugby club,
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  Speaker 3: whether it's your hockey club, your swimming club, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's up to you as the membership to make that decision.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Let's move along, because I do want to
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  Speaker 1: say or ask you, well, Brett Dixon's calling into question
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  Speaker 1: leaks to some elements of the media to like he
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: basically said that yesterday in his statement. Then today it's
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: being reported that an incomplete version of a text message
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  Speaker 1: sent by former Inte News editor Matt Williams to the
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  Speaker 1: Dar and Turf Club and Brett Dixon was included in
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  Speaker 1: that durming IKAK report after the newspaper published a series
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: of stories detailing allegations of misconduct within the icac's own office. Now,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the Anti News reports that are draft report sent to
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the affected parties on May seven as part of the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: natural justice process didn't include any reference to that text message,
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  Speaker 1: but it was then included in the final report, which
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: was released on June twenty five. Are you concerned that
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  Speaker 1: the IKAK has misused their powers in any way here?
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  Speaker 3: Well, certainly a number of people over a period of
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: time have raised various concerns about the IKAK, And there's
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: one thing we believe is that the ICAQ is an
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  Speaker 3: institution that territories have to have confidence, trust and faith
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: in and it needs to be beyond reproach.
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  Speaker 4: Do you have confidence and trust in it?
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  Speaker 2: Look, we do, we do.
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  Speaker 3: But what we want to see is a full public
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: review into the operations of the IKQ Act. Now, we
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: tried to do that in Parliament a couple of months
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: ago we said with the changing of the Guard, with
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: a new commissioner coming in, the K had been in
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: operation a couple of years, it was a very appropriate
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: time to review how things were going and what needed
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: to change.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 3: That needs to be done publicly and in a bipartisan way,
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  Speaker 3: because of course the K is not the government's playtoy,
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  Speaker 3: you know, it is not for the government to make
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  Speaker 3: these decisions and craft and sculpt what an IC should
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: look like. That should be something done by the Parliament
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  Speaker 3: on behalf of all territories and be an open process.
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  Speaker 3: A government of course rejected that and instead of having
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: this closed door review where they've tasked someone to go
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: and have a look at it, which is highly inappropriate.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: This needs to be an open public process, all right.
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  Speaker 1: Just to go back to the issue with the Chief
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  Speaker 1: Minister and the situation with this twelve billion dollar grant.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, at this stage it doesn't look as though
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  Speaker 1: the Chief Minister's going to stand down. It looks like
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: he's staying push. It looks like the Cabinet is going
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to continue to defend him and defend the decisions that
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: have been made.
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  Speaker 4: So we're too realistically from here.
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  Speaker 3: Isn't it appalling that we have a situation where our
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: three most senior ministers of the crown are lying to
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: territorians about the cabinet process, where they are digging their
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: heels in in order to save their own skin, where
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: they're throwing other people under the bus to avoid any
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: culpability in this situation, I think it's truly appalling. When you,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: as a leader lose the confidence of the people, you
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: should stand Aside from.
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  Speaker 1: Your perspective, though, has the opposition put forward questions for
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: parliament for sittings? I mean, are you going to be
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: trying your best to get some further information?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, without question, We've put in over two hundred questions
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, so we'll expect those back
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: in a few weeks time. Of course, during parliament we
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: will be putting a very large part of our focus
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: will be on this issue to try and uncover the
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: real truth. And Katie, just about every day or every week,
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: more of the truth is coming out. And I think
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: as the Gunner government, and as Michael Gunner continues to
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: dig his heels in and blame others, more disgruntle people
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: with more of the truth will come out and it
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: will continue to plague their government, which is not good
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: for the territory.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And it's not good for territory.
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  Speaker 3: They should rip the bandaid off and come clean about
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: this so that everyone can move on.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Opposition leader Lea Finocchiaro, we're gonna have to leave it there.