Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #270 Maggie Dent: Are We Getting Parenting Wrong?!

Transcript

#270 Maggie Dent: Are We Getting Parenting Wrong?! · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Ash.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, Matt.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Now, normally when we get someone in here as a guest,
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: an expert, if you will, to talk about parenting advice,
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: we call in the one and only.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Jen.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Is she not coming? No.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: We're having an affair.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: On Jen. So, Jen, if you're listening to this, which
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you are, it's fine.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I hope we have a blessing. That's what I heard.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: No, we said to Vic, we were like, are we
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: sure we want to do this? Is this going to
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: ruin the relationship with Jen Muir? She said, no, it's fine.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Jen has given the thumbs up.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I would say that if you're a parent
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: in this country, you probably don't need an introduction to
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: this person. It is Maggie.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Dent.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: She's the original Oracle.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: She's royalty. The queen of common sense. She's a mum
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: of four boys and nanny to a growing number of grandchildren.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: And she's written a stack of books. I could be
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: wrong here, but I think it's close to a million.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Wow. I thought it was a billion.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: I think it could be a billion. I'm not quite sure.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: It's 100 billion zillion.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: That's what I think.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Apparently. Rumors have it. But I think if you were ever...
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Get your hands on a book for parenting advice. It
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: would be one of two people, Jen Muir or Maggie Dent,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: because she is just incredible. Everything she says for a
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: modern parent, you were just like, that is genius.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Bang on the mark.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yes. For years, she's been talking to the parents of
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: this country and she's made it her mission to help
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: us raise decent, confident, and well-rounded little tiny humans.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: So we're going to interrogate her with every single problem
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: that we are currently facing, Ash.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I'm also a little nervous.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I know. I'm like, please tell me I'm doing a
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: good job.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Let's find out.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Okay. Maggie, we do a very complicated introduction where we say,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: welcome back to Two Doting Dads.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I might have heard it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Would you like doting grandmother?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Nah. Nanny's better. Although technically one of them calls me Yaya.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Yaya.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the youngest grandson calls me Yaya. We don't even
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: have any groups in the family.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Nanny, Yaya.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So... When I'm there with all of them, I go,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Nanny and Yai, I'd like you to come in.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: I like that, though. Any kind of nickname.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Have you seen those videos where it's like grandmothers these
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: days and it's like Mimi, Moo Moo, Gigi, Jojo, Momo, Mimi.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: And you know what? You can't influence.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I know. My mum's tried to influence. It's not working.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't just know.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Is this Nelly?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: What's she called?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Nelly.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, she's Nana, but she wants Nelly because Ellie.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, love it. Whatever.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: But the kids are like, fuck you.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Nanny,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: or Yaya.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: I'm Eddie J.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I'm Ash.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I'm Maggie Dent.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Nailed it. And this is a podcast all about parenting.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: It is the good, it is the bad.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: And the relatable.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: And if you come for advice, good fucking news.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great news, actually. Woo! It's your day. It's your
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: lucky day. We have Maggie Dent here, so strap in!
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Who happens to be an amazing boy chat and dad champion,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: so I'm wondering how the come it took this long
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: for you to invite me in.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Well, you tell us, actually. Are we going to start
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: pointing the finger?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I think we've been trying, Vic.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: It's all right.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Vic's fangirling hard.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I'm just getting in first.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Actually, the level of barrier to get to Maggie Dent,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: it's like a fucking obstacle course.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It's good. You need it sometimes. You can't be that accessible.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I've always said that.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm old. So I do get a bit tired.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: All right. But I'm really happy to be here, guys.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, we're super happy.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And I love what you're doing and let's be honest.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I just want to say as well, lovely to greet
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: with a hug if I can say so.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I shook your hand. That was really unprofessional of me. Sorry.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I'll hug you on the way out, I promise. The
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: kiss was a bit much. I get awkward. I get awkward.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: So you don't. Remember you've got to have consent. I know.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And Matt went in for a pash. He just can't
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: help himself. He does that to me too and I
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: kind of like it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: I just thought we were there.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Why not? Start there, work your way back.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: That's kind of my life a bit. I've been stopped
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: by women for a long time for a hug and
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: a selfie. But in the last five years I get
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: hugged and stopped by dads.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: How good.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And they also say things like, oh, Maggie, my wife's
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: going to lose her shit when she sees I've seen you.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Can I get a selfie?
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: How good. That's how we should measure how involved dads are.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I think it might be time for me to leave
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: soon because, I've nailed it.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. And we should use that in how we
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: measure how good dads are doing. They're like, how many
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: dads has Maggie been in touch with of late and
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: how many have stopped her in the streets? We're in
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the right direction. Now we usually start this podcast to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: find a little bit about you and I want to
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: know and Matt wants to know and the listeners want
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to know, do you recall the most amount of trouble
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: you got into as a child?
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Well, the list is really long, guys, because I'm the
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: fifth of six and I grew up on a farm
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: in the Wheatbelt. So by the time me and my
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: little brother turned up, there was a lot of parenting
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: left really.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: And you know the wheat belt.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: I was going to say the wheat belt.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Familiar with the wheat belt and that is?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Down south in Western Australia where you grow wheat and
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: you grow sheep and barley and canola.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: We love Western Australia. Canola? We have to actually accidentally
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: attack the people of Perth.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Not again.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: And they didn't. No, we doubled down. No, no, I didn't.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I did. My bad.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: We'll forgive you on that one.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Did you hear that, Perthians?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, so all right, there's a couple of things. And
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I was in trouble a lot. I have to put
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: my hand up. I was that little girl who thought
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: she was a boy anyway and so really, really took
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of risks, led her little brother into some
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: serious scrapes. But I'm trying to think. There's two favourite
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: ones and that's the day when I dared him to
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: run across the bull paddock and I'd sort of see
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: how he went.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: As you do.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Can we just quickly touch upon that one?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: How old was he?
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Six. I thought he could run faster, to be honest.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: What colour was he wearing?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: No, he was actually all right, but I noticed the
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: bull starting to turn around and pour his boot and
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I thought, oh, man, I've got to get in there
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and go in and rescue him. And I had on
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the red T-shirt. So whether it's a myth or not,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I had to run my guts out, and I'm not
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: a runner, and scoop him and flip him over the fence.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So I did get a belt in for that one.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: But there was another one that we did. So we
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: were given air rifles because we had a lot of
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: problems with parrots around grain, stored grain. They'd come and
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: eat it.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say a lot of
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: problems with foxes. No. Yeah, it's bloody parrots.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Well, we did deal with those in rabbits too. And so,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: you know, probably by 10 I had my own air
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: rifle and our job was just to be down near
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: the shed where they'd all come in in big flocks.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: If you just shoot a few pellets into it, they
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: all fly away. So that was the exception. That brother
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: and I let him astray again and one day we
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: actually shot one and we thought, oh, let's cook it.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Because as you do. So we set ourselves up a
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: little fire down in the bush and set up a
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: little thing with hot water in and, yeah, we both
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: got burnt. And anyway, once it was cooked, my dad
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: had a really good sense of humour and he sort
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: of said to me, how'd the parrot taste? And I said, oh,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: it's terrible, Dad. And he said, no, you know, I've
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: got a really good recipe. Next time you want to
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: cook a parrot, you put a brick in and you
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: cook it and you cook it and then you throw
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the parrot away and eat the brick. It'll taste better.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: LAUGHTER Who's eating parrots? Did you actually eat it?
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: We did pull the feathers off because we also used
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: to cut chooks' heads off and let them run around
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: and cook.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: The chooks up. Farm people are built differently.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: We're all over here squirming.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Wait, Perth people are built differently.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Country people. You guys ever heard of chickens over there?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And I am a country person but it is my
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: home state so you settle.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: No, we do. Hang on, hang on. We do, we love,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: we love.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: We do love.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Come on, you're begging three times in two minutes.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: We poke them for fun. We had a big thing
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: with rural doctors but we've moved on to just people
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: from Perth.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Well, now we could get into really crosshairs because my son,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: youngest son, is a rural doctor. Oh, fuck.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, God.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: He's an emergency doctor. So one day when you end
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: up in ED, I hope he's there for you guys.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: The backbone of this country. I know, I got attacked hard.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: They're like, he's a rural doctor. Because I referred to
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: them as vets.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't. It was a joke.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: I feel like if anyone can take a joke, it's
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Maggie Dent.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, I've got four sons.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: And the rural doctors of this world, the backbone.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: You should see my WhatsApp group with my sons.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Bring it out now.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: So I want to ask you, when you talk about
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: your upbringing, being in the country, you get given air rifles,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: you're cooking your own parrots, and then you compare to
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: what life is like now for a lot of kids,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: especially in the city, are you like, oh, these kids
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: are pathetic?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Okay, no, let's be really honest. What experiences country
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: kids have is very different and that's the first thing out.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And often country kids also, it doesn't matter where they
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: are in Australia, will often go through more natural disasters
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: on their own and have to fend and recover. I mean,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I think the toughest kids in Australia are in Queensland.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: They just get thumped all the time and bounce back.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Mind you, Northern WA, there were two cyclones within four
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: weeks last year that wiped out. Can you see what
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I mean? So when you go through those things, You
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: learn an adaptability that means that you know that when
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: bad stuff happens, people have to gather together to recover, right?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: So that's what basically resilience is really. It's about the adaptability.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: So what we've done, and this is not just city
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: people now, it's everywhere, is some person who I'd love
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to meet one day decided that we can't let our
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: children be sad anymore and disappointed. So they changed the
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: rules for Pass the Parcel. And that is where everything
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: started turning in the other direction because today's parents feel
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: it is their job to ensure their kids have experienced
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: the most exquisitely wonderful childhood with no disappointment. And I'm
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: going to tell you, when they get to school, there's
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: a nasty thing called napalm. I'm sorry, nap plan. Nap plan,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: always get that round the wrong way. You don't get
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: picked in the team. You don't get to the birthday party.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And they have less capacity than previous generations. So it's
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: not about toughening our kids up. It's allowing childhood to
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: do what childhood does, especially through endless play. out in
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the natural world with ouchies and owies.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was rattled when I first saw the pass
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the parcel with something in every layer. I was like
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I feel ripped off. My whole childhood there was this
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: one thing to get, like maybe the random one.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And also factor in the stress on the parents because
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: to make sure you get the music right because you've
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: got to make sure you're not, that is a ridiculous
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: level of stress to put on a family that's already,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you know, gone out of their way to tidy the
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: house up before the birthday party. I would like to
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: say if you've got boys, don't bother.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I think, do you know what the problem is? And
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: our approach to parenting in my household is quite often
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: the path of least resistance, just trying to make everything easier.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: And so incorrectly, I think that's crossed over into so
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: many different aspects of everyday life where I'm like, well,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: if I can just minimize one more meltdown, it'll be
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: easier for me by the end of the day.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: But can you reframe that now and realize that mother
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: nature has its own way of allowing our kids to
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: experience all those moments and they gradually adapt to them
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and get better at them? It almost goes, oh, okay,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: now I know that. So I had a mum ring
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: me up in Nova one day and said, oh, Maggie,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I've got a two-and-a-half-year-old and I just want to know
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: how I stop the tantrums. And I said, oh, mum,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: you're doing a great job. You know this is exactly
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: what's meant to be happening right now and this is
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: developmentally important because it's about autonomy and growing a sense
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: of where's my yes, right, and also they don't have
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the cognitive capacity to go, oh, gosh, I'm getting really stressed.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I'll just take three deep breaths. No, and it's supposed
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: to come out. When it's out, then they come into
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that sad, calm state again. And exactly, it's not easy,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: especially when it's in the supermarket in front of everyone
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: when you're well known.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's Matty J with his kids.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: He's lost it. I often talk about at gymnastics there's
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: a wheel and the kids spin the wheel and there's
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: one little, it's like a and there's one little stick.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: If it lands on the stick, they get a toy.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: And it's fucked because the kids often lose. And then
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: there's times where I just have to pick up the
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: kids and just walk out.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Now can you see that through a different lens? You
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: are actually preparing them to have frustration tolerance and to
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: be better at being disappointed. Now you're going, when? Can
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: you see the different lens? Yes. Doesn't mean to say
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: it's going to be any easier.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Can I give you a scenario?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Go for it.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Something that I experienced recently. And for anyone who maybe
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: knew the podcast, Marley is seven, Lola is five, Poppy
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: is one. And recently we went on a trip to
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: Maggie Island to see Laura's dad. I'm not sure if
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: anyone's been to Maggie Island.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: It is beautiful.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Has Maggie been to Maggie Island?
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Yep, I have.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: It's a lovely part of the world. Picnic Bay, one
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: of the most beautiful beaches imaginable. And we're there. We've
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: been chasing wildebeest and looking at koalas in the trees
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: and we're having ice cream on the beach. We're having
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: a swim as well in Picnic Bay, which again is
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: just exquisite, blue skies. And you think like this is
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: heaven for a kid. And my kids are in that
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: moment annoyed because they got a different flavoured ice cream
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: to the other one. She had a lick and had
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: a bite instead of a lick. And kind of I
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: guess throughout the day they've just been finding all these
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: moments to be really annoyed and frustrated. And I'm like,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: why the fuck aren't these kids grateful for what they've
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: been given?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, so disappointing, isn't that really?
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is going to be.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: How have they got the agenda? Okay, so this is
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: one of our common questions. You know, kids only have
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a certain amount of what we call energy in their
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: body to be able to cope with situations, right? So
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: they're not anywhere in their familiar environment. They've got different beds.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: They've got different routines. They've got different light in the room.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: They've got different food. They've got different. So every one
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: of those creates a sense of change and a lack
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: of predictability, which means their little nervous system is working
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: twice as hard to feel comfortable in the magic, wonderful,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: amazing environment. location that you've chosen to create the magical
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: memories for the rest of our lives.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Moment yeah sounds like you should just let them at home.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Right no no here's the here's the key thing is
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: that um doing some of those things in smaller doses
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: rather because quite often what we do on holidays isn't
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: it well correct we're going to write if you're in
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: sydney let's go to luna park and then we'll go
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: to the then we'll go over there then we'll go
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: over there yeah and you've got kids that just can't
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: handle that amount of intensity and so you've got kids
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: who get grumpy and siblings will fight more when that
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: happens so Can you see it's one of those incredible
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: paradoxes because a lot of people on holidays who are
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: lucky enough to get them, remember not everyone can have
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: seven weeks holiday a year, plan these amazing trips overseas
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: and yet the worst thing for kids is jet lag,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: food that's not familiar and people who are different to them.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: All of that puts a lot of pressure on them
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: so they're actually running at anxious levels of and then
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: we're going, look at this, this is the best.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Day of your life. Oh, my God, you sound like me.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: It's like it's similar to like with us. If there's
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: too much happening, we're overwhelmed.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Like you're like, okay, are the kids going to love
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: ice cream because kids love ice cream. All these things
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: they love and look at this amazing beach but it's
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: too many things.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Too much.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You're spoiling your kids, Matt.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: It's quite interesting because that's one of my things every
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: now and then I land on a seminar saying, you
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: know what, sometimes less can be so much more.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Less planning, less organisation.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Less holidays?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: No, no, I wouldn't say that. But on them, once again,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: have a rest day when you get there, getting familiar
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: with that environment. Make sure you've got familiar toys you
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: take to the beach so that that feels familiar, right,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: and do the same thing each time you go to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: a beach. So for me, for Nanny, I just dig
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: giant holes everywhere I go if there's a beach.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: If I fall down a hole at a beach, I
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: know who did it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: You're a woman up.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: To my heart.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: And guess what? The kids go, oh, this is where
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: we dig big holes, Nanny. So they're already doing a
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: familiar activity, even though it's a different beach. And then gradually,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: as that feels familiar, their nervous system has more energy
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to maybe go and explore for, you know, nautilus shells
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: or crabs or whatever. Does that make sense?
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: It makes perfect sense. And my next question is then,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: once they are having the meltdown, as a parent, do
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I try and step in and mitigate this meltdown or
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: do I just let the meltdown happen and like dig
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: the hole and turn my back to it?
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So once it's happened... You know, and I love this, Dr.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Dan Siegel writes about they flip their lid. So that
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: means they flip their lid to anything to do with
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: the front of the brain. So they're now in just
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: pure shutdown mode. They cannot hear you. They cannot respond
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: to logic. You cannot pull it back at that point.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And it's got to run its course. So what they're
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: doing is discharging the cortisol. Cortisol feels really crap. So
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: they're discharging it by kicking and screaming. One of mine
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: used to run. Man, I caught him a few times
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: bolting out of woolies or something and you know, nearly
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: on the road because that's what he did with me.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And so our job is to be able to keep
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: them safe in that space, right? And that's not easy
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: because guess what happens? You get triggered from a similar
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: timeframe in your life where you lost it and you
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: did get the clip around the ear told to go
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: to your room and go and calm down and all
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: these things that were really, what did you need? You
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: wanted a safe person to hang in there with them.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And I kind of talk about this thing called the
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: parental pause, which means You take a few breaths yourself
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: to start with going, oh, man, there's some schmick happening here, right?
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to just see if I can pull
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: myself into a grounded state. Now, if you bend your knees,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: you're more likely not to flip your lid, which is interesting,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: isn't it?
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: We'll have to test that.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also start taking some big breaths, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: not too loud and everything. Hand on your heart just
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: to remind you you love this child because you're not
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: feeling it right now, right, especially when it's in public.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: And then you're going to try and get down a
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: little closer to the workout and wonder what's happening because
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: what triggers those things is is some unmet need or
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the nervous system is flooded and it can't handle anymore.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: It's one of those two things. So if you can
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: get closer to them and go, I wonder what the
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: unmet need is. And then if you can say to yourself,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: my child's not bad or naughty right now, they're struggling
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: to cope, let me be what they need, a safe base.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be their safe base.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I saw this thing come up in
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: my algorithm which was it was like co-regulation, right, and
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: it was– The other night Oscar had, he scared his
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: sister in the middle, like not in the middle of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the night, close to bedtime, scared her with something. And
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: it was two nights in a row he did that
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and then he had a meltdown because he got in
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: trouble for doing so, right? And I was like instead
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: of just, you know, saying my piece, I did originally.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I went away. I came back and then I didn't
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: say anything. I just sat next to the bed and
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: waited and waited and waited until eventually he turned around
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and he was sort of similar breathing the same as
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: me and then I could say, hey, you can't. You
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: can't scare your sister, mate, because you imagine if I
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: poked my head in here in the middle of the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: night and just went, boom, you'd hate that. But it
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: worked way better than what I would usually do.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And also let me give another slant to that. What
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: was he trying to do? He was trying to make
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: his sister laugh.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: See, that's a dumb thing boys often do. I'm going
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to scare you. It's going to be funny.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: No, it's not sometimes.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So that chat we have with them as well, we
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: often assume they're trying to upset them, which is also
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: quite often for boys. 99% of the time they make
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: dumb choices that can hurt themselves or others or the
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: world around them and they didn't plan to hurt anyone.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So we go, hey, mate, I bet you were trying
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: to make your sister laugh, hey?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what he was doing.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good idea, mate.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Just on the back of Matt's question, I have a
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: seven-year-old boy, Oscar, who... No matter what it is and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: no matter how many activities or how many what's happening,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: it's always about what's next. And it drives me crazy.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Why is that?
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Because it'll be a big, big day. It'll be a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: big day of activity, fun-filled, and we're on the way
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: home and it's time to go home and do the
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: routine of bed and whatever and it's what are we
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: doing next?
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm going to tell you a little bit
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: about temperaments.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: So I've been talking about it for years.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I named it.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Kind of roosters at one end and lambs at the other.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Right, here's a rooster.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: A rooster wants to keep going.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I call him a turkey.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: No, no, quite fit. And they often have way more
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: energy and you can have girl roosters. I'm wondering if
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: one of yours is. You will know because I never stop.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: They're feelers. They love to have the centre of attention.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: You know, they're often quite argumentative and stubborn. But they
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: just want, where's the next party? Where's the next show?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And it can be really exhausting. There's no question. But
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: what we'd like them to be eventually is in the middle. Yeah.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Because quite often if they're here, and I bet you
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: he is. He's got loving parents and he's got a sister.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: We want them to be capable of being that because
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: they're often the change agents in the world. But we
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: also don't want them to turn up like a certain
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: orange-haired freak on the world at the moment who's a
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: rooster without any other things in it.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: So we want them to, you know, be capable of,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: you know, thoughtfulness or caring or whatever. And so you
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: need to have the energy for that child. I was
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: really lucky because I was a rooster and I had
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: four boys, two were roosters, right? They couldn't run me
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: to the ground because I'm still going. But I know
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: when I meet a mum who's more of a lamb,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: who's got a couple of rooster kids, whether a girl
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: or a boy, She has to be at the gym
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: very early in the morning to keep her fitness up.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And also don't like sleeping, missing out on stuff. And
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: it is. Can you see why? And every now and
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: then we have to have that chat with him and say, look, mate,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I know you just want to do everything and I
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: love that in you. I love your spirit. But there
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: are times that it's not going to work for our family.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So if you need to do something like that when
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: we get home, what have you got in the backyard?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have a backyard.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Right. If you don't, well, we have a lot of
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: balls in your lounge room. Yeah. You're going to kick
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the hell out of them. They're going to jump up
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: and down on your couch. You've still got the energy
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: to want to keep doing stuff that looks like I'm
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: stretching myself.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I know. I quite often.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Or go to the park more often.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I quite often dismiss it instead of just harnessing
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: it and saying, okay, we can go shoot some hoops
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: out the back if you want because I need a rest.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, and I don't want to get to that
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: point of I'm tired and cranky now. I want to be,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I'm tired, it's fine, we had a great time.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: But he needs to know there are times you are tired.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And this isn't working, mate. So if you're okay, you
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: go out and shoot some hoops. I'll be out soon.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Once again, they don't get everything their own way, but
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: there's some unique tendencies in those temperaments which can either
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: do your head in or you can celebrate. And it's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: one of the challenges we have, especially in this world
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: at the moment about raising boys, is that often those sensitive,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: tender boys, you know, there's a sense in a lot
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: of dads, I have to toughen them up or they're
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: not going to be okay in our world. And I'd
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: just like to give some advice, given that I have
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: two of them, And they were forever, you know, they
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: put a bookmark between the roosters. The one that's in
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: between the two, you know, the second one, he just
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: didn't need to chest bang. So he might get a
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: tificate at school. He don't come home and brag about
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: it and ring up his grandparents. You find at the
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: bottom of the bag a month later or chewed up,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: he doesn't give a toss, right? He got it. So
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: guess what? As a surfer, my four are still surfers.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: He takes the biggest waves and yet he's not a rooster.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: So they come into their own power in their own
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: way without needing to be that alpha male.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Would you say they're just like super confident and comfortable
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: within themselves?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Within themselves. And that's one of our challenges as parents.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: What do I need to do to make them go
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to the next level? And so often we say back
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: off because you give them opportunities, especially when you, you know, play.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: They will gradually, and it's, you know, one of the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: stories I share as my oldest granddaughter is She was
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: 14 months of age with a sleeping bag and threw
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: herself out of the cot. And my son said to me, Mum,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: what do you do now? I said, mate, she's got
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: upper body strength. This is just going to be part
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: of who she is, right? Cot's not really, you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to be careful about that, surrounded
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: with pillows or whatever. Anyway, when she was about two
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: at the time, you know, in Djerongong there was this
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: massive climbing frame and she's at the top, right? Absolutely
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: no question. She's got this and two beautiful dads that
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: could have been you two standing there and I could
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: hear them say, we need to get her down from there.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And I just said, back off. Why? Because they thought
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: she was too small and she was a girl and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: their boy was four and he wasn't wanting to go
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: up there. So every developmental stage in our kids is
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: kind of in a blue chip inside them. Yeah. But
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: we as parents often feel, what else do I do
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: to get them to the next level? Are they at
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the level they should be at? And I just wish
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: we'd stopped doing that because, you know, it's not a competition.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: I find that with, with when I watch my kids socialize.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: And I think the dream for any parent is to
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: see their kids grow up with a really great group
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: of friends. Now, I was really lucky growing up that
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: in primary school and high school, I always had like
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: a really awesome group of mates. And I want the
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: same for my kids. And when I see my daughters socialize,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: sometimes I'm like oh the way that they talk and
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: the way that you know they've got to compromise when
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: someone else is doing a game that they don't want
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: to play and they're very dismissive and I've trying to
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: find that balance of when I should go in and
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: correct them and when I when I should back.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Off oh man friendship dramas it's a really interesting thing
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: there's quite a different way that our boys and our
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: girls develop friendships so often if you've got a younger
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: boy the way that he develops a friendship. And sometimes,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: you know, they can do it with their brothers. Mine
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: are still pretty good mates. But it's proximity. How much
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: time do they spend with another boy? And they may
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: not mention words and things. They just like being hanging
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: out with them, right? You know, because there's not a
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: lot of, oh, what would you like to do today?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Would you like to play with the trucks? No, they
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: don't just run around like feral things and do dumb stuff.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Girls from a very early age are already wired for
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: this kind of connection stuff. So they're already tuning into
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: what other girls might be feeling or what they're sensing.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: They're not always accurate. And making friendships is to do
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: with estrogen. It's bonding neurochemical, you know, that hormone. And
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: so that together is every now and then we know
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: that friendships have ups and downs, even the best ones.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So rather than it's about having conversations with her about
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: how does she feel? What would she do if and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: play with toys to do it? What would you do
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: if this little doll said to that little doll, I
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: don't want to play with you today? What would you do?
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And we do it through the play aspect rather than
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: it being a significant thing. And sometimes the simplest thing
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: is if someone says that to you, we practice them
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: having a smile. So that's okay. Have a good day.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: See you later. Rack off, right? Because that's more likely
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: for that friend to go, hang on a minute, that
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: wasn't kind of the response I was hoping from her
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: because where have they learned to be a mean friend?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Where have they learned to do that sort of thing?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say which one, but.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: One of my daughter's, In social situations, she's so quick
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: to point out when one of the other girls or
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: boys has done or said something that's not quite right.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: And she'll jump in so quickly and go like, you're
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: wrong because actually it's not this, it's that.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: That's an emotional maturity. So that's actually a good thing.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: She might be best if she just shares it with
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: you rather than. becomes the life coach for the children
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: that are around her.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: But do I say to her, like, hey, you know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: you don't have to always tell the other girl or
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: the other person that they're wrong.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: So it's the quiet chat that we have in the
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: bath at some point or one-on-one. We said, you know,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I noticed today. And that's a great thing. What you're
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: seeing is really quite true. But sometimes that might not
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: be handy or helpful. And, you know, so think it,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: but sometimes maybe, not necessarily say it because other people
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: might feel you're judging them or making them feel bad
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: and then that can come back in a way you
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: didn't intend it. But make sure it's a quiet chat
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: and then leave it. She'll think about it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know if this applies, but I heard this
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: analogy of like you've got to discipline the dog when
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: it's done something wrong then and there. You can't smack
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: the dog after the fact. And my worry was like
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: do I, if I do it at night time in
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: the bath, it's so far from when the event's taken place.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Works way better so can we touch on that for
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: a moment because it's still one of the biggest challenges
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: out there I feel that influences today's parents it's because
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: most of you're a lot younger my boys didn't get
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: it maybe you would have is very much it was
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: still very much the idea is you punish the behavior
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: that's not acceptable and you don't like because you think
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: it's deliberately done and then we're going to reward the
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: hell out of you right, for everything you do that's good. And,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's kids getting stickers for breathing.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Nellie, aren't there? What's the freaking trophies in junior soccer? Yeah,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of that sort of stuff.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: No, well, I'm going to tell you it actually doesn't
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: raise healthy children. Yes. No, it doesn't. And so, you know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: that discouragement of certain behaviours, they're actually way smarter than
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: we ever gave them credit for. And it is one
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: of the things I teach a lot around boys because
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: they make a lot more of those impulsive poor choices, right.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And so in that moment what we have to work
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: them to do is they're not bad or naughty. They've
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: just made a choice of a child because they just
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: have a kid's brain, right? They actually don't have an
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: adult brain. And our job is to once again build
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the skills. So that sort of a thing. What were
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: you trying to do when you did that? When you
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: threw the truck at that kid, what were you doing, mate?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: What were you doing? Yeah, he called a mean word out. Okay,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: so that's not an okay thing because you could have
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: hurt them. So it's actually not okay. And then we'll
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: talk about why it's not okay, you know, hurting kids. yourself,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: others or the world around you is not okay. So
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: what would you do next time is step in that process.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: And some girls can benefit from this too. What would
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you do next time if a kid said something you
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: didn't like and you didn't throw that? What sorts of things?
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: And get them problem solving as well as yourselves so
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: that you might say, I can go say, stop, that's
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: not okay. I don't like it. But you've got to
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: practice till it comes automatic. And then you just kind
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: of let it go. So as you know, one of
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: my favorite ever humans on the planet. Dr. Chris Green,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: he said, kids do well when they can, but so
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: often they don't have the skills to do any better
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: until we teach them the skills. Punishment does not teach,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: discipline can. And I'll give you an example of a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: dad who kind of took away one of my messages.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: He said, oh, his son kept leaving his skateboard behind
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the car. And he said, man, I've been nagging at
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: him and, you know, I'm going to ban this, I'm
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: going to do that. And in the end he said, oh,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I thought I'd take your message home, Megan. So you
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: give him two cautions. It might be the third time
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: there will be a consequence.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: And so he left it the third time and he's
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: come home and dad's nailed it up near the top
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of the shed. And he's come in and said, hey, Dad,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I can't get my skateboard. He said, no. No, mate,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: remember we said if you couldn't put it away, we'd,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: you know, take it away for a while. And so
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: when you're ready to have another go of having your
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: skateboard out and putting it away, we'll get it down.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So how about we leave it for a few days?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I love that so much.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Can you see?
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: That's right up my alley, yeah. Yeah, right?
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: It's a consequence but how is he going to learn?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: He's going to learn by practising. So he may do
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the same thing again so it goes up for another
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: couple of days. But we don't shout, we don't hit,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: we don't shame, don't go to your bedroom. What sort
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: of idiot are you? Because he doesn't learn from that
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: and he's got to be able to give them the
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: skill to make a better choice about his skateboard.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: You do so often forget. They don't have the adult
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: brain and it's really hard as well, and you would know,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: we all know this as parents, that you knee-jerk react
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and then you spend, once you've done it once and
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: then you're like, I just hate how that felt, you
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: then go... Next time I've got to stop myself from
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: knee-jerk reacting and I'm like the same now. So I
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: would usually knee-jerk react but as they're getting older I'm
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: starting to have more conversation with them about what's happening
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and what's done instead of.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: And also toning, feeling how I'm feeling. So every parent
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: loses their shmink, right? You know, I've done it and
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: they'll tell you about it. Apparently I have a track
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: record I only ever hit once and it was– The
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: youngest son's coming home from hospital after having his tonsils
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: and adenoids out and he's got a really sore throat
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and everything, but the one above him was so jealous
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: that he'd spent the week with me that he was
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: going for him and he wouldn't listen because he'd miss
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: me and, you know, so I hit him with my handbag.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So don't worry, it comes up often, Christmas, breakfast, you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: like whatever. Anyway, let's go back that step again. We
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: all do. Now the thing that's different is every generation
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: has something But what we do now is we recognise
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: what is the most important thing in our kids' lives
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: that helps them grow up to be healthy, decent kids
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: is human connectedness and safe humans.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: And so when that happens and when we've calmed ourself down,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: then we repair the rupture. We go back in and go, wow,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: that's not the dad I want to be. That's not,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: that wasn't me and I'm going to work hard at
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: that one. Are we okay? Doot.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I know. I have a conversation with my wife every
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: two or three days about reflecting on something that I
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: wish I had done differently.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And it's not– it can be maybe a shouting match,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: which we all have. Yeah, yeah. Or it could be
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: me just dismissing and I'm like, yeah, so.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Well done, you.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you very much. I had
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: a question because we were talking about the rooster, for example.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Both of our kids, both of his elders are in school.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Mine are elders in school and the other one is
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: about to start school next year. But are we– overloading
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: our kids with school and then before and after school activity?
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Are they overstimulated?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Hallelujah. Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: All right. Let me go.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm a former teacher, so, you know, I
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: keep my finger and tabs on the ground.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: We always talk about fatigue.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: There's no question. Let's go back one step in that.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: What did five-year-olds do 30 years ago?
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Play.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: They cooked parrots.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: They pushed their brother into a bull bin. Remember, it
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: was a.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Time where there was usually a parent home. So let's
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: just bet for that reality has been removed because we
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: can't survive without it.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: But also what we did as five-year-olds, it was much,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: there was no formalised learning, right? If you were in
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: a daycare, it would be just nothing but play. If
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you were in a kindy, it would be the same
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: sort of thing no matter where you are. My boys,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: as five-year-olds, spent four half days in a community kindergarten
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: and had a fabulous early childhood educator. They were hardly
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: ever out of the sandpit, the cubby house or the boat.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: She would read to them sometimes while they were out there.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: They never were made to do a painting, whereas now
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: we have this age group having to write And we
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: know boys find motor control doesn't kick into around eight.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Girls are really good at it. So guess why boys
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: start feeling really dumb because they can't colour within the
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: lines and do not start doing that.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I'm having some serious childhood trauma right now.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: So the push down of formalised learning has not been
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: the reason for teachers. It's some weirdo who creates curriculum
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: who hasn't got any understanding. But not only that, we've
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: had more content pushed down and I've had teachers telling
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: me that the content they used to teach in year five,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: some of it is in year three. So we've mucked
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: up what we're doing to start with. But you're absolutely
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: right that the meltdown in the car after school is
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: not a sign that anything bad happened. It's they're cooked.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: So guess what we're then going to do? Right, now
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: you're off to do music. Now you're off to do
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: soccer training. Now you're off to do. And a couple of,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: we know that some extracurricular activity is great for kids.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: But I want us to keep thinking of Goldilocks. You know,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: when the bed was too hard, too soft, just right.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And that within your house, your rooster could do all
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: of that, your lamb maybe not. And that's the challenge again,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: because even kids who have to go to out of
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: school house care, some days we need to work with
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: their educators and say, look, they're really coming home a
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: bit too cooked. Any chance they can just chill and
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: do some stuff that's not necessarily as physical. So we
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: need to look at that body budget with our kids
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: is a real thing.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: What was the body budget?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: That's how much energy is in their body to do anything.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: And you actually, it's called interoception, the their little bodies
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: are trying to work out have I got enough. And
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: that's why sometimes they can't eat their dinner. There's not
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: enough energy in the body to eat their dinner.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: There's not enough because it could be coming down with something.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: It could be a molar coming in. It could be
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: constipated that you can't see. That draws energy out of
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: the body, which means you haven't got it to do
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: some of these things.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I'm always like, not on my watch. You're not fucking
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: eating your dinner.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Right? So sometimes we've got to, and I know you
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: didn't know that, but we're the same. You know, when
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: we're low in energy, what do we do? Go and
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: eat sugar? We do some other stuff because we go,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: hang on a minute, I'm a bit low in energy.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I'll go and have a coffee and a Tim Tam.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Kids can't do that.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: That sounds delicious.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: So one of the things I keep saying to parents
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: is you need to have that conversation is the two
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: winter terms, thank God they're finished, the days are shorter.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: So getting home in the dark. That's already like not
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: a good way to get there. But also if you
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: had that intention that, you know, I'm going to cook
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: a beautiful meal and lovely broccoli and we're going to
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: have lovely chats around the dining table and then we are,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: you know, doing homework and reading and then they'll have it. No,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: it's going to go to shit because you're all cooked.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So when you had that meeting with your kids, you say, look,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: we worked out we were going to be shouty parents
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: so we're just going to have to back a little
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: bit off so we have a couple of rest days.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Rest day doesn't mean they do nothing but we're going
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: to come home and just fill our cups and chill
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: out a bit. Because the intensity of school is more.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: The pressure on them to be a part of everything
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: is more. Yep. And kids just have got the same
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: energy previous generations had. So we work out, you pick
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: out your top thing or your top two things. And
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: we're going to work out how we can fit that
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: in with a schedule that means we don't end up grumpy.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And then this is the big thing we did, you know,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: prior to this was you work with other families. You
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: pick up their kids, they pick up your kids. We've
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: got to actually get that semi-village happening and a tribe
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: of people who help us do these things. But I
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: notice it's not easy, especially in city areas.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Hmm.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: So can you see there's a lot of things in
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: it that can contribute to burnout in parents as well
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: as kids.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think how I manage it with Laura and
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: we both work so much that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday the
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: kids are in after-school care until 5 o'clock. Thursday is
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: when I pick them up at 3 o'clock. But that
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: one afternoon that I have with them after school that
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: I'm like, we've got to cram in and make up
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: for lost time. I just want to take them to
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: the park and go to the beach and do this
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: and do this. So you've got.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: To check in with the kids. What do you want
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: to do on that afternoon? But sometimes a trip to
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the beach will fill that cup. Sometimes a trip to
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: the park will fill that cup.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: Some parents, though, they're like, you don't give your kids options,
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: you just make them do it.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a goodie. Can we have a chat about kids' autonomy?
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go on. Should we be giving our kids more
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: or less options?
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, look. They are way smarter than you give
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: them credit for and so often this is what exhausts
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: us today is you're second guessing every decision to make
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: sure it's the right one, yep, and then you beat
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: yourself with a stick when it doesn't work. So every
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: now and then we're going to look at them and talk.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Sometimes like the high energy kids have energy to do
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: the things you cannot believe, right? One of my boys
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: would play soccer on a weekend, then play for two
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: other teams and give me a hard time when I
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: said it's time to go home because you've had three
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: games of soccer, right?
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Oscar.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, see? It's just who they are. Yeah, he's a Kelpie.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: So every now and then, seriously, a little bit of choice,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it's huge. Do you reckon this is a great idea,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: you know, that we, on a Wednesday, that we do
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: this every time or as we get picked up, see
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: how you feel. Let's see, can we have some feedback?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Get some feedback from your kids and you will actually
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: find you'll make better decisions.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: I'm like, but you don't want to go to the beach.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: It's a nice afternoon. And they're like, we don't, Dad.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, but Daddy wants to. Right?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: No, you're right. Sometimes I just want to go home
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and chill at home where there's no pressure on them.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, you've got to make sure you
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: don't just slip them into sticking on an iPad and
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: everyone goes into a different direction.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: See, and I really would. Same about chores and things
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: like that. Every now and then we can have a
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: chore plan and then we can say, now, how's it working?
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Is that, you know, we're going to swap the chores around,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: but is that you don't have enough time because that's
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: your day because you have music?
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: So what you're saying is my children are my employees, right?
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Sort of, no, teammates. Damn it.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I prefer employees. I prefer low-level employees.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Everyone is a part of a team and everyone in
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: the team helps out. Yeah.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Even dad. Even, even dad.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: When it comes to screen time, why do you think
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: that has made everything harder for kids?
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it's an attention stealer and it basically separates us
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: when what is our number one fundamental thing is connection.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: So I'm just freaking furious that big tech has taken
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: basic psychological knowledge in order to manipulate all of us
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And even, you know, really competent parents cannot run their
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: families without their phones. And we know that when schools
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: send home screens thinking that's going to improve learning, you know,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: everyone was just swept up in it without really understanding
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that what they're doing is to make us all as
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: addicted as possible. And it is messing with a lot
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: of our kids. And I feel that we actually, we
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: don't recommend digital amputation because we need it in order to,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: you know, do things in our life. But I think
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: One of the things that we kind of wrote our
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: digital freedom book was to put all the information into parents'
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: hands so that we stop blaming parents, we stop blaming
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: kids and we stop blaming schools for not doing enough
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: because the big enemy is big tech. When we know
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: how it works, we can all have conversations around home,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: how we can see it as the enemy and work
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: out how we use tech for good rather than just
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: let them keep on hurting our kids and hurting us
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: and damaging our relationships.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Is there a sweet spot for how much screen time
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: they can have?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. It's more about what they're doing and also,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: you know, what sorts of ways can sexual predators find
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: our kids? There's no question. But as little as possible,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: small screens under five years of age is definitely a
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: helpful one.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Because we know that the digital slop, that, you know,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: endless kids YouTube with a short, that's actually dumbing kids down.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: But we also have to look at our teens. that
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: excessive use is definitely creating symptoms of digital dementia by 18.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Wow. I had a moment last night actually just on
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: screens with Oscar. He was in bed and he yelled
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: out and he said to me, hey, what are the
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: moths for? And I was like, well, do you know what?
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow what we can do instead of me giving you
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: a shitty answer, we can find the answer. And I
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: said to him like what we'll do is tomorrow we'll
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: look it up. Yes, we've got this thing, this amazing thing,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: the search engine. but let's use it to find why
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: they're here and what the moths are. And this morning
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the first thing he said, he says, let's find out why.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: And I kind of thought that was a good use
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: of technology. Totally.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And also, you know, kids can learn and speak another
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: language with Duolingo.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Right from home. Like, hello, it's not all bad. And
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what we wanted to put in a book
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: for parents. How do we work out what's good? How
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: do we make sure we're navigating it in a way that,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: you know, lets our kids still feel connected in their
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: home environments? Yeah, so that's. That was the plan. But
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I am going to be really honest that when I
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: helped Kira write the chapters on privacy and data and
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: AI and algorithms, it scared the absolute shit out of me.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: and I had to walk for several hours. I just
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: wanted to scoop my grandchildren up and remove them to
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: an island off Hawaii.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Have we not watched The Terminator?
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: We know how this is going to end.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. It's crazy that it's
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: like this weird mix between power and pain. Yeah. I
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: want to talk about, and we touched on it before,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: about the parcel to parcel. Can we talk about that
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: every child must have a good experience every time, all
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the time, and do you think that that is actually
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: doing our kids worse than good.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, God, no. Look, okay, let's go back to that.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: What is a peak experience of joy for children? Sometimes
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: it's a hose in the backyard.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Running around naked for two hours with their cousins.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: And yet here we are planning a trip to whatever,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Luna Park or Ears Rock or something, thinking that's really
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: going to blow their mind. Okay, so here's the other
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: good piece of advice too is that siblings who've had
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: peak moments of joy with their siblings are at some
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: point during their childhood, and that's sometimes why feral caravan
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: park trips are really good, where they're all zooming around
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: the caravan park, you know, where they're on the scooter
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: and whatever.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: They're completely different when you go to a caravan park
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: with a bunch of kids. It's like, who are these kids?
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: They're like latchkey kids.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: And yet if you have the same group, then there's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a sense of camaraderie, but also the older kids will
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: watch out for the younger kids. It can be like
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: What tends to happen is as older siblings, they tend
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: to get on better in their adult years. But it
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that what you think is the peak experience
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: or what the kids think is a peak experience. So remember,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: we're feeding a memory bank. And sometimes that is every
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Friday night we have a movie night where we have
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: popcorn and ice cream and dad farts or whatever, you
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Guilty. So a repeated ritual that they,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: you know, pancakes on Sunday, bake up, fry ups, we
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: go to the park for a barbie. repeated experiences can
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: add up to something really special without it being really special.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Do you remember growing up what your repeat experiences were?
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, we had some great ones. There was a
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: river not far from us and our cousins lived over
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: near that river and there was this giant rope hanging
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: off a tree. man, every time I can just, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: like the river often had sticks and sheep poo in
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: it and God only knows what, but we would be
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: there for hours swinging off that rope or a pontoon
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: and chucking each other in the water. That just is
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: pure joy for me.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: And also we also had two big mulberry trees on
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: our farm and around Christmas, that's when the the best mulberries,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: the English blacks are ready. That was like every year.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: We were only in our jocks because we got covered
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: in mulberry, made mulberry fights. We picked the mulberries and
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: had mulberry pie. So the mulberry days are etched in
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: my psyche. It didn't cost a cent.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Can I also ask you about the participation award? It's
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: this thing where it's everyone gets an award for participating.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, God. Okay, so... When we have kids in different
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: groups of ability, you know, and a lot of this
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: is sweeping generalisation but quite true, a lot of the
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: boys are in the lower groups and they think by
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: calling it dolphins they won't know they're in the bottom group.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: They know they're in the bottom group.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: That's because they're in the vipers. They're all like aggressive
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: animal names, vipers, cobras.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Great, I love it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And then there's the dolphins, the rainbows.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: So again, I think it's a little bit like the
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: self-esteem movement that said when you shine a light on that,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: you're building character. And I can see that logic, but
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: often they miss the kid who's made a significant shift
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: in the way they interact with someone who have found
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: it hard before, especially some of our neurodivergent kids. So
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: it tends to go to the same similar kids each time.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: You know, and that means there's certain parents with their
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: chest puffed out thinking they're doing the best parenting job. No,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: we've got kids who are pretty savvy around how to
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: get seen, how to perform under, you know, the, do
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? So I'm not super keen
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: on it.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I do think that acknowledgement of kids who do things
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: that are positive in the group that make the group
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: work better. But I don't know that we have to
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: put them up in front of the school because I
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: feel every single kid's looking and one of my boys
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: is a whoopsie. Do you know what they are?
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: No.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Didn't plan it, suddenly arrived.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, got it.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: He landed on Halloween, which also is a sign he's
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: a rooster. Anyway, and he came home after the year
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: 12 graduation. He said, you know, Mum, I'm pretty smart.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: I only just missed out on a couple of subject
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: awards by. 001, which really sucks. But he said, you know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: it was almost the same sorts of people going up
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: for awards and the citizenship awards, you know, so there
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: was 250 of us. I guarantee 245 of us are
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: going home feeling a bit like a loser right now.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Can you see how they see it? All the rest
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: of us didn't get it, so therefore we're less than.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: You see how kids can see it can be very
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: different to how grown-ups intended it to be. Yeah, true.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: And it's a bit like over-praising. You just created praise junkie.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, that concerns me so much.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: But you can acknowledge, I saw that you helped your
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: sister out there, mate, that's really great. That's very powerful.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: But saying, you know, well done, champ, I'll give you
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: this because you did it, yeah.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. Too big, was it?
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I'm just trying to find that sweet spot in my
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: mind of like, trying to find where you're not over-praising
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: but you're also giving enough to where credit is due.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm just trying to think of like what equation
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: is that sweet spot?
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I call it positive noticing.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you sort of notice.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Not every day because I remember a lady and a
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: mum in a playground one day and I heard a
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: call out to her son, it's really great smiling.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: LAUGHTER Good breathing, Timmy.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: You're doing great, Tim.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: In and out.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Breathe in and out. It's great.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: And I just thought, oh, see, we can go too far.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: He was out of pure joy laughing, smiling.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: And I.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: It's not an achievement. I think it's a different word.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh, I love that you're having a great time.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: It's very different to good job smiling, Tim.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: Can you see?
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: It's just a slight shift.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Lola's like, I'm doing the splits, Dad. And she's definitely
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: not doing the splits. And I'm like, that's amazing. And
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: now I'm thinking, oh, fuck.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Nilly. I always throw a nilly.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: But it's... And we are nitpicking here.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: It's a really tiny bit.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I do like to... I feel like we've hijacked this
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: for us. Really?
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Is that surprising?
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: No, but it's sort of like Matt's right. He's like
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: trying to find... We do try and find the... appropriate
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: ground of what am I praising you for? But I
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: always try and don't just throw out a praise with
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: no why. Like Oscar, I want him to be a
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: little bit more, conscious of his sister and she's smaller
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So when he is like, oh,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I gave this one to Macy, I'm always like, hey,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: so nice of you sharing with your sister. There's a
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: reason why I'm giving you that parade. Instead of, good smile, bud.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: I think parenting is this weird juxtaposition where like Marley's
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: seven and we're trying to make her as autonomous as possible.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: And then at the same time, I think Marley is
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: a lot older than her actual years. And then all
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: of a sudden when they start pulling away, for example,
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I wave a goodbye at the front gate at school
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: and she's like, I don't need any affection. I don't
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: want anything.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Matt's like, it's okay.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: And so she's being autonomous and I'm like, oh, fuck,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: I want to drag it right back in. And so
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to find these moments where I can still
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: have this, you know, connection with her. And I don't
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: know if you're going to turn to me and say,
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: this is a bad thing, but what we've decided to
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: do now to have that one-on-one time with, with her,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: because Lola and Poppy get a lot of our time
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: and attention is that be easy on me here, Maggie.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: So when the kids go to bed, Seven o'clock, Marley
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: will often stay up for about half an hour-ish, just
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: like drawing or reading in her bed. So after Lola,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: because they share a room, goes to sleep, we bring
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: Marley downstairs and we have a couple of games at Uno. Ash,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: I've stolen that from you.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: But I do it to Laura, myself and Marley. And
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: I'm wondering is this a good thing because we get
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: this one-on-one time. I'm also worried that we're like doing it.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Freaking hell, it's fabulous. Okay. Okay. Okay, so here we go.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: The greatest gift you give to your kids is. is
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: presents with a C-E-E-S, not T-S.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: But the other one could hurt.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: No. Too many toys, too many presents.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I'll take the presents. Okay.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: And that's beautiful. I mean, I've been kicked and hurt
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: as a nanny too because my, how old will she
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: be soon? She's about to turn eight. But as a seven-year-old,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: she's just this little cutie pie. I want her to
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: walk into the classroom when I'm in her room. no,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I've been turfed at the gate. No, don't even come. No,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: that's enough. And I'm going, oh, man, I'd love to
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: walk her in, right? And I go, yeah, that's cool.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: That's great, right? So it's not just that you've created
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: that beautiful opportunity, right? You don't have to overdo it.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just reading a book with her. It's about
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: that moment when fortunately, and she's absorbing this like a sponge.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: But I talk a lot about mum dates and dad
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: dates and sometimes just a one-on-one, not also, you know,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: it's not on the fridges. Do you want to come
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: down while we, you know, I've got to get some milk?
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: And we might linger a little longer and have a
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: chat in the car or might be able to walk around.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Do you get what I mean? Those, I talk about
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: micro moments of connection add up to big ones because
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: so many parents are so busy that that whole quality
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: time message is just making them guilt the shit out
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: of themselves, aren't they? And so micro moments and some
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: of those are really small things that, you know, when
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: you walk past them in the kitchen, you ruffle their hair.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: You know, if it's your son by the sound, I'd
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: punch him in the arm or tread.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: On his foot or fart at him, whatever.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: But little micro moments. So sometimes even in assembly just
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: winking at them, you know. Don't wink at random children,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: just your child.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Make it very directional.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes, you know, I talk about the bedtime ritual
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: that sometimes when you're in a good space, you tell
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: them a ritual about how much you love them. And
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: often that gets personalised. And it's pretty cool because the
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: one I use is, I love you more than every
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: star in the night sky. And sometimes you take them
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: out and try and count the stars. Or I love
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: you more than every grain of sand on every beach
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: in the whole world. And they'll go to a beach
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: and they're far out there, more than all the hares
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: and all the bears. And they'll often lay awake and
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: then they'll come down and go, do you love me
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: more than all the hares on daddy's back? Do you
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: love me more than all the poo in all the zoos?
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I'll actually personalise it.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: And it's not every night of the week because you
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: can't do it because when you go in there, of
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: course I love you to the moon and back. Now
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: get to bed. That doesn't work. What works is just
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: enough times. And then what happens when that's deeply, deeply embedded,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: you can pull that when they're 15 and, you know,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: giving you a mouthful, you just go, remember the stars, love?
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Ah, it makes me want to cry. Right?
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's really, really powerful. So sometimes it's little
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: notes that you poke in the lunchbox. If they've had
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: a really tough morning and you want to put a
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: note in, you know, just, you know, not your turn
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: to do the bin, that doesn't work. But, you know,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: like those things riding on the banana, all.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: That sort of silly stuff. Clean your room each time.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: You see?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: So it's micro moments also add up and it's imagining
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: you're putting love into a love cup that's inside them.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: because not everyone has that time. But I think that's
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: freaking beautiful. Yeah. She's never going to forget that. She's
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: got to really be pissy, though, when your sister decides
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: she wants to play.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: Very true.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: There's times where, like, for example, like Oscar just had
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: his jiu-jitsu grading, okay. I remember April being like, oh,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: we'll all go down and Macy go down. But I
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: said to April, I'm like, this is Oscar's thing. Macy
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: will make it about her. Yeah. So why don't we
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: find some, is that, do you think that, is that good? Okay, good.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: You know exactly, is exactly that what happened. And sometimes
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: boys just get angry because something doesn't feel right. They
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: can't always articulate what that is.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: And that's Oscar to a T.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and that's part of our job is,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: you know, coaching our rooster boys particularly to, you know,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: what's under anger because it's never the anger. the disappointment
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: that she was there and you weren't able to pay attention.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Exactly, yeah.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: You know, being able to give him the words would
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: be great, but that was a great choice.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, good. I wasn't sure if it was like.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Come on, guys, I'm just giving out stars here.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Look at me breathe, Maggie. I'll smile.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Watch me smile.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: I can only imagine how much you've seen the role
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: of a father change. I don't want to go into
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: how old you are, Maggie. You are a nana?
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: 71.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Great, by the way. Eight grandchildren.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't hurt at all.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: How do you think fatherhood is changing for the better?
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: And how do you think that impacts the family unit
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: in a positive way?
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Ah, Andy, it's the best thing I've witnessed in the
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: last 24 years. And, you know, when I first started
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: running seminars, there were no dads. I never turned up.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: And then gradually they started to turn up. And what
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: is beautiful is, I mean, I have actually been working
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: with dads since kind of like 20 years ago. I
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: was actually doing some mental health work in In the
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Wheatbelt in Western Australia, we had some significant suicides with
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: a drought that was happening. So I was out there
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: helping with that. But I've been in sharing sheds with
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: men who want to be better dads for a very,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: very long time. And as they've turned up, you know,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: every now and then they have a chat to me
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: about something that's really made a difference. And one of
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: the things that came up a lot, which is really
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: sad because I've written so many damn books, is they
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: don't all like reading books on parenting. And of course,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: they're beautiful, you know, loving partners of Asterix and poked
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: notes in and said, read that bit. Or they've... ask
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: them to share something online, you know, please read it.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: But they're often quite sensitive that is that trying to
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: tell me what I'm doing wrong. So they weren't coming
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: because I thought you're going to tell me what I'm
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: doing wrong and I already think I'm a crap dad.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Because there is a beautiful sensitivity in dads. They actually
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: want to be the dad that maybe they didn't have
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: or they want to be a better dad. And so
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: once they realize that's not what happens at my seminars,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: that you'll laugh your heck off, you'll get three great ideas.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: And this is one thing that took me a while
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: to accept is is that sometimes a whole bunch of
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: farmers might come back to a seminar and look around
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: the room and say, you guys were here last year
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: at the same seminar. I say, yeah, yeah, we've got
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: three really good ideas. Mate, you're here an hour and
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: a half, you've only got three? But there's a pragmatism
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: in men that says, right, I can nail those three.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do that. But they don't want to
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: take away six.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Right? And so every now and then that's kind of
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: why sometimes it's my short videos on YouTube that have
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: made it for dads. They've found one. And it just
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: explained something I didn't understand without being criticized. I don't
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: like their beautiful partner being able to have a go
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: because it feels like I'm not good enough and I'm
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: not performing. And now kind of about 40% of them.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: And I've really loved it. And I've loved doing the podcast,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: The Good Enough Dad. And I think reassuring dads that
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: you don't have to be perfect dads. You just have
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: to turn up with a big heart and as often
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: as you can. And that mucking up doesn't mean to
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: say you've failed. That good enough only needs to be 30%
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: of the time. It's It's been beautiful and dads are
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: turning and they started, it was kind of like about
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: 10 years ago that I was up here taking some
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: of my younger grandkids to parks on the weekend and
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: there weren't any women anymore. Yeah. It's just dads, babies
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: tied on the front, they're blowing chains and pooing nappies,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: they're running around with kids and I went, man, look
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: at that. If you go back 20 years, that wasn't happening.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't happening, no.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: And not only that, you know, they're turning up wannabe,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: give me more to do, especially, you know, their parental
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: leave's shifting, we're getting more dads wanting to stay home.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I was super proud of my youngest son who, when
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: their youngest arrived, he negotiated with the hospital. He was
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: over at Tweed at the time in a really clever
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: way that he took his leave and his shifts and
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: he divided it in half. He was able to have
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: a month off and then only two days a week
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: for five months. And when he took it to the
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: hospital board, they said, oh, no one's ever done that before.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: That's a great idea. And he said, I'm pretty proud, mum,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: because there's now, you know, dad doctors in that area
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: who negotiate longest because of that. And that God look
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: I couldn't be more proud yeah he wanted to prioritize
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: his kids and he worked out a way that he
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: could do it so being part of the fathering project
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: means we're starting to acknowledge those companies that are stepping
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: up recognizing that dads really are a really valuable part
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: when they're and can we make it easier for them
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: with flexible work and stuff like that and I think
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Australia's in a great position.
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: A lot of dads of our age, I think they're
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: really trying to break the mould of the father that
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: they inherited. And if you're talking about big picture parenting,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: I know that Ash and I are talking about all
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: these little micro moments and what we're doing right, what
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: we're doing wrong. But if you're talking about that 30%
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: and getting that 30% right, can you, maybe you can't,
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to try my luck. Can you explain
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: what that 30% looks like when parenting is done right?
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: What those moments are?
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Because I think a lot of dads are like, I
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: don't know how.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Okay. The very fact that most dads turn up for
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: the birth is definitely a good place to start. But also, okay,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: so the 30% means that while you're around your kids,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: you know, those muck up moments are part of the 70%.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Are you there, you know, getting the dinner ready? Can
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: you pack the lunches? Are you there at sport? Do
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: you cry when they get a certificate? That's the 30%.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Most are doing way more than that. But it's on
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: the crappiest week of out, 30% is easily attainable.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: And so it's setting, it sounds like we've lowered the bar,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: but in actual fact, this is quite a longitudinal study
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: that talked about it. And I think it's the most
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: reassuring thing for many parents out there today who are
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: trying to be perfect or the best. No, kids don't
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: need that because those moments you muck up are moments
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: that kids learn about mucking up when you fail, when
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: you forget things. And that's one of the reasons I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: start a lot of my seminars with some of my
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: major cock ups because people feel really safe. But even
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: though I'm doing what I do, Man, oh, man, Jesus,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I never left one at the pool. You know, those
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: sorts of things are reassuring moments and that's what we
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: have to do. So instead of seeing each other from
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: judgment places, which I'm particularly for mums, it's a really
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: judgy space out there. That's only because of social media
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: and stuff. We need to recognise every parent gets out
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: of bed and tries to do their best. About 30%.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: We haven't achieved it. We get up tomorrow and have
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: another crack.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny that 30% when I first heard that...
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: instantly felt reassured in my ability and my what i'm
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: doing day to day because it's like 30 it might
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: not seem that much but it is such a significant
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: significant amount especially for a small child totally and it's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: like you're right i i get up the kids are
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: like all right kids what are you having for breakfast
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: and i might help them pack their lunch and oscar
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: might have a couple of questions here and there like
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: why do moths exist at the moment and it's sort
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: of like When he leaves for school, it's like, okay,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to drop him off and I say, I'm
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: going to be here to pick you up. And I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: feel like, okay, I've actually felt like that day that
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: I might have exceeded that 30% but then tomorrow might
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: be different. But it is so reassuring to know that
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: you don't have to be a good 100% of the time.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: And can I just throw one thing in terms of
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: what I've learned about boys and men is often the
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: self-worth comes from a sense of I give it to
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: myself when I feel I've done good enough.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Right? And so... Lowering it to 30% means there's far
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: more dads are going to feel more, you know, that
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: when they muck up, they're not going to beat themselves
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: up because that's actually what they do do. And sometimes
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: they just bury it inside, get angry and really difficult
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: to live with because they're actually at themselves and not
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: actually angry at their kids or their partner.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a quick story. I was on that.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine came over to my house the
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: other day who's got a newborn, a six-month-old he's in,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: and he was really battling because he felt like he
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: was being attacked for all these things that he was
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: doing wrong because he was attacking himself first.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: And when he came to me and he said, his
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: wife said, hey, I need your help with this. And
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: he said, I didn't mean it to happen, but he
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: felt attacked. And he was like, all she was doing
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: was asking for help. And then we went through similar
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: things like you just did about the, you wake up
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: in the morning, you're attentive, you're there, you're there. And
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: I was like, bro, you were doing so much more
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: than your dad did. Where's your dad? Like I even said,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: where's your dad now? He's like, I haven't heard from him.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, exactly.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: So it's such a beautiful point, Ash. And so one
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: of my boys rang me at one point and said, mum,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: so what's, what's the go with the onesie and the leggings?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: And I said, why is that love? And he said,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: far out. I've just been given a real roasting. I've
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: got them around the wrong way. I said, yeah, no,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: but no child's hurt, is it? And he said, no.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, you know how to navigate that's
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: around the wrong way. And he said, yeah. And I went,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: you know, mums often have a very particular way. And
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: so when I'm speaking to mixed audiences, I'll say sometimes
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: there's a dad way. right? And if that nappy's on
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: the back way around, you know, who gives a care
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: if blue is on the back and not the front? And,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: you know, like, really? And does it matter if the
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: clothes don't match? Can you really back off a little here?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: If we want our dads to turn up and be
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: part of the team, then we need to make it
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: easy for them to be a good enough dad, because
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: a good enough dad means the kid's dressed.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Right? And I feel that was such a, you know,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: there's a, every now and then there's a lot of
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: nudging going on when I make those comments, because So
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: what are females doing from the time they're pregnant? They're
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: actually getting as much information to be the best mother.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I want to be the best mother. And every day
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: as we go to sleep at night, we're going, oh,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: far out, they didn't eat broccoli. And I, you know, damn,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: they're still washing in the washing machine I haven't gotten.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: How are we going to get them to two different
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: birthday parties on Sunday when you've got one car because
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: the other car's in the garage? Oh, man, I didn't
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: check what time, whether soccer moved on the WhatsApp group.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: And So they lay there because they have a much
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: more wired for organisation brain from the very earliest times
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: and often all the stuff comes through one phone. So
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: that's this thing that creates this massive mental load that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: sometimes dads aren't party to because you don't have the
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: school sending it to both phones and you don't have
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: the soccer group. Well, mind you, I've made sure it
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: is on my family so both of you get the messages.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: But can you see why therefore that makes a dad
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: feel like, no, you didn't mention that.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, sure I did.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: You know, and so he feels really bad, which is
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: also what a boy feels when he didn't plan to
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: hurt his sister by jumping on her from the top bunk.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: You know, so when we attack rather than come on
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: side as, yeah, have you got that message or can
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: you do this or leave a post-it note on the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: bench or, yeah.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: It's those little things you don't see.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: No, you don't see.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: I said to April two days ago, my wife, I said, hey,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: can you remind me of this tomorrow? And then I stopped,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I looked at Oscar and I said, actually, that's not fair.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: And I said, no, no, no, I set an alarm.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: So that it was one less thing because she was
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: dealing with something else.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, digital calendars are fabulous.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I don't know.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: So there's another tip in that one too and that's
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: when dad's, you know, offered to do lunches and that,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: you know, and they can do it and then work
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: takes them away for three or four weeks and they
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: come back, well, they've probably forgotten what needs to go
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: in the lunch. It's usually different. Just take the photo
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: of the last lunchbox and go off that one. So
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: you've got a rough idea but sometimes a mum has
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: a very specific idea of this week's because the fruit
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: price has changed. And this is where guys can feel like, no,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I can't win. It's never going to be right, right?
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: And we can't let that happen because that then takes
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: away that enthusiasm for being the dad they want to be. Okay,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: so can I ask a couple of questions?
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: Yep. Okay, all right. And I just want to say
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: well done on how many less fucks you've done. It's
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: so good. Thank you very much.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by less fucks?
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Well, because sometimes I have a kind of level where
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: I'm comfortable with them and you guys have been doing
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: really well. Is it because I'm old? No.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Not well. Don't give us the opportunity to say that.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: It's okay.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying. All right, so here's your two questions.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: You've owned up to lots of your muck-ups but I
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: want to know Somewhere in your past there's one that
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: will float back over the years as one of your
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: biggest regrets. What was one of your most significant muck-ups
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: that you can think of? And you don't have to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: go deep into it, you just have to own it.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: As a parent?
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: As a dad.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: A particular moment or overall?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Particular moment.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good question.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: I think mine was last week and Lola was being
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: particularly difficult And she was having a big fight with Marley.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: And I went to grab her, to separate her from Marley.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: But as I grabbed her, my bracelet scraped across the
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: chest because she wasn't wearing a top. And it just
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: left a big red mark. And then she was just
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: visually looking at that mark. And she also, you know,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: when I grabbed her, she wasn't expecting it. So I
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: think she was startled. And so she got really upset
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: and then that feeling of being upset was then perpetuated
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: by the fact that she had the red mark.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: That one's going to last.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: I think that would be the moment for me.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is a biggie. Everything in there, I'm
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: the one who's supposed to protect. I'm the one who's
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: supposed to, you know, yep.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: Even though it was an accident, right? It's just one
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: of those things. Yeah, mine's a similar sort of realm.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I think I... I can't remember the exact subject point,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: but it was I sort of came down really hard
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: on Oscar without knowing all the details. And the problem
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: was that I came down really hard on him for
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: something that I thought was right and then I remember
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: April pulling me aside and saying, hey, you actually missed
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: the context of what happened. And I was like, I honestly,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: I could see how.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: I know it was a really serious subject because I
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: came down so hard on him and stern and I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: remember his face when I was coming down on him
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and then it's forever etched in my brain. And a
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: similar thing happened with Macy where I sort of launched in.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I might have had a long day and tired without
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: full context and I remember her lip quivering. It broke
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: my heart and I see it every night now before
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: I go to bed, both of them. Yeah.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: And that's the... we've all got them, you know, mums
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: and dads, but I often find there's one particular one
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: that guys sort of sit with and don't want to
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: forgive themselves for it, but, you know, it's a big one.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: The other part too that sometimes comes up is dad's
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: notice how much more harshly they speak and treat their
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: boys rather than their girls. And that one often is
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: a big regret again because they were treated like that
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: I have that thought every night.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's move on to a light one. You
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: will recover from that. Okay, so now it's one of
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: your biggest wins that you feel I'm super proud of.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: And you know they've got lots, but what's just one
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: that just when you think of it cancels out that
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: last conversation completely?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: It's got to be when I can turn Oscar around.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I think there's a really significant one, which was just
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: the other day, same thing, back to the jujitsu grading.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: And you could tell he was really nervous. He was
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: really anxious. He had the knots in his tummy. He
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: didn't want to do it. He wasn't going to do it.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: We went, we watched. And I remember April was like,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: come on, Oscar, come on, get in and sit down.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: You don't have to do anything. Sit down. I was like, no.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: I grabbed him and I walked away. We went and
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: sat in the shade. And I said, okay. You've done
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: all the hard work. You've done all the hard work. Today,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: we're here to collect our silverware. We're here to reap
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: the benefits of all the hard work you put in.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: So why don't we go? We sit. We watch. Let
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: the others receive theirs. And then when you're ready, I'll
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: walk you in and we'll sit next to one of
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: your friends. And that happened in that way. And instead
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: of getting the stripe on the belt, he was actually
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: awarded a brand-new colored belt, which he didn't know was coming.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: I knew it was there because I had to pay
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: for the fucking thing. So I knew it was there
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: and that's why I was so I wanted him to
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: enjoy that moment, not be forced into sitting down lit. Beautiful.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: You know, and that when we left, April was like,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: you know, good job, Dad.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you built the predictability of the experience because
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: he was obviously– He was wrapped. He wasn't, yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: And I said to him after, and I remember before it,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: I said, how are you going to feel when you
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: walk out of here with that extra little stripe on
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: your belt?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: You're going to feel great, aren't you? Yeah.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, I know. But then him
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: walking out with a brand new belt on and the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: other kids in his class had got stripes and they'd
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: done their thing, but he'd been there longer. He was
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: so proud as we all were. Eddie?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: I think Laura and I are very similar in what
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: we offer the kids with activities and nurture. And for
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: some reason, I don't know why this one is just
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: something that we have, just me and the girls. And
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's just being at the beach, which I
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: love as well. And they just, it's like that little
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: micro moment of just, we just love jumping in the
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: waves and just holding it with their hands. It makes
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: me feel really like, yeah, like strong.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: That's the moment. That's the biggie. It's these peak moments,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: peak moments of joy that cancel out the other stuff.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ask a really big question now.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: Ready?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: No prep. All right. What is the one thing that
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: you would like your kids to learn from you because
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: you are their dad?
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: There's more than one.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: No, it's going to be one.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Put one on top of the list.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: One thing you want them to learn from you.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: From you because you are their dad.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: I want them to learn the value of things, not
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: in terms of a money value but the value of
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: everything around you, the value of the relationship you have
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: with me, the value of the relationship you have with
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: everyone around you. I want them to remember that I
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: value every relationship and I want them to take that too. Beautiful.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: You can use mine. That's a really hard question.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm shocked I came up with that answer. Go.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: Fuck, it's really hard.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: It's really hard because I'm trying to think, like, what
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: can I offer them that no one else can? I
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: don't know. It feels really self-indulgent to say this one,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: so I'm, like, reluctant to say it. But I hope
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: they can look at an example of the type of
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: husband they deserve if they want to have a husband.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: the type of partner which they deserve, and I hope
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: I can be the benchmark for what that is for them.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: That's freaking brilliant. That's exactly where they learn it.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: That was beautiful, Manny. Look at you. Tough ass. See,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: one of the things I discovered early on is that
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: so often guys are treated like they don't think about things.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: But in actual fact, most men have think very deeply
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: about their values, about what they believe in. They just
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: keep it kind of deep down inside them and often
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: don't share it in case someone might disagree with it.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: But dads are way deeper than we've often given them
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: credit for. And it's that question is it often hits
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: them right in the right in the the big heart place,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: because they do know it's a huge responsibility. I don't
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: have to be a perfect dad, but the influence of
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: a father and it's why I'm here today. It's why
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: I do what I do. My mum wasn't the warm,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: loving mother figure and it was the fifties. So she
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: really tried to beat that wickedness out of me. And
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: the fact I preferred kind of hanging out with the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: boys and I didn't wear dresses and it was my dad.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: So my dad was the one who got out of
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: bed when I wet the bed. I had a nightmare.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: I went sleepwalking and I slept walked a lot, partly
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: because of the trauma of my mother. It was always
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: my dad. It was my dad. I spent most of
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: my childhood on the farm, just escaping my mum. And
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: he's the one. And what we now know in the
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: research from Bruce Robinson is, and it's a bit unfair
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: in a way, but a warm, connected relationship with a
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: father for a girl absolutely impacts her life in so
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: many ways. She will menstruate later. have sex later and
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: be far more comfortable with her genuine sense of self
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: than one who doesn't. Isn't that interesting? So now you
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: can sort of, we always knew dads mattered for boys
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: in the shaping of them, but now we know just
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: how important they are in shaping our girls' lives.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was watching, I can't remember who it was,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: and you might remember, same with you, Vic, talking about
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: listening to their siblings getting a bulking because they weed
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: the bed and stuff like that back in the day,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: but You know, last night, I think it was last night, yeah,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: it was like in the middle of the night and
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Macy came in onto my side and she tapped me
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: on the shoulder and woke me up. I was like, oh,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: what's going on? She's like, just weed the bed. I
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: was like, all right, jump in. And that was it.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: And it was, I love the idea that your girls
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: would be the same to be able to come to
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: you and go, I've weed the bed and know that
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: that's not the wrong thing to do. No. It happens.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: I sometimes got a belting after I got home from school.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy. And it's like sometimes I'll even say,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: like Oscar might have accidentally weed his pants and I'm like,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: I might tell him every time I shat myself as
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: an adult just to be like it's completely fine like
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: it's not punishable you.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: See yeah and that's that shift it's a beautiful shift
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: and that's that's kind of what that generation of parents
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: were led to believe was how you raised good kids
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: as you built the stuff you don't like out of
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: them and as I said before you know without that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: one safe human and that's the attachment stuff you just
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: need the minimum of one safe loving human and you
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: got a really good chance of turning out all right.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: Can I ask you, Maggie, that last question you asked us?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: What was that for you, for your children? What was
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: the one thing they learned that only came from you
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: as their parent?
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: That is a good one. Yeah, I think it's my
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: humanitarian values. My boys know that, you know, I'm just
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: capable of accepting people regardless of colour of skin or
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: where they live or what culture they follow, that I'm
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: always prepared to be open to accepting people exactly as
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: they are without judgment and also They do know that
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: I love them fiercely, fiercely and unconditionally, and I think
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: those two things kind of go together because, you know,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: it's interesting what they've chosen to do in their lives,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: that they often do things that help others. What did
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: their mum model?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: Well, they're very lucky to have you as a parent.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: They won't say that. That will give you a quip
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: around that one, but thank you, Maddy. Thank you.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: We're also so lucky to have you as a guest.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Maddy and I both, we never set out on this
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: podcast journey to– provide or be these dads but I
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: think along the way we've become so conscious of how
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: we are around our kids that people see it and
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: talk to us about it and it's really great. Like
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: my friends that are dads, I have a friend who
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: messaged me two days ago and said, I'm 20 days
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: sober now and he goes, I spend every afternoon with
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: my kids. I absolutely love it. And it's like, fuck,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: it's crazy what we've built and to have you come
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: in and talk to us.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: It's my honour and my privilege to turn up. And
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: have a chat to two dads who are doing the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: best they can. And also putting good out into the world.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Ridiculous at times, but funny it's time. But good, right?
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what we've lost of part of
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: the world has lost the greater good. And while you
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: guys are entertainers and you thought this is just going
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: to be something funny, there's something inside you that knew
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: this was going to be bigger than what you thought
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: it was going to be. And I congratulate you both.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: I'm like you, Dan. You're the best.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: Nah, just good enough, mate.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of people that have made me speechless.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Jen and you. So well done.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Wow.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: That was good. No notes. No notes from me. Look,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: there's not a lot of people that make me completely
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: speechless on this podcast because I don't shut up. I'm
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: a yapper. She is one of her. Jen is one
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: and Maggie is one.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know if this is going to sound stupid.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: But there are some conversations that we have. And like,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: I love being a parent. Okay.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: Overall. Sometimes after working all day, you're like, oh gosh,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: you know, heading back home to get stuck into dinner, bed,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: bath routine. You're like, I'm like bracing myself more than
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: I'm excited for the fun things.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: But after conversations. like this, I'm like, I cannot wait
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: to get in there, get amongst the kids.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: Get your hands dirty. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: Roll the sleeves up.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: I feel like.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Get in their brains.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: Because I can trick them.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: That's what I learned from this episode.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: No, it is so much nicer heading into parenting when
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: you feel like, You know so much more about how
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: to be a better parent.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: It's nice to feel seen and then be told you're
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: doing a great job.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: There he is.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: Bam!
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: That's all we've got time for. Fuck, I love you.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review. Subscribe.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: You can visit us on socials or you can suggest
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: any other experts because we don't want them.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: You've got to stop flirting with me. Do we say
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: follow us on social media? Yeah, we're out there. 2.0
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: Dads on Instagram, there's TikTok, YouTube. This long-form episode will
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: be available to watch there. If you like, maybe you
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: just try it out. If you haven't watched us on
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: YouTube before, it's good fun.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: Dip your toe in. Try it out.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: The water's nice and warm. Facebook group. There is 5.2
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: thousand people in there.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: 5.2 thousand. 5.2 bajillion gazillion people in there. You could
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: be one of them.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: Imagine life in the Facebook group. It's great.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: You don't have to imagine it. You can turn it
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: into a reality.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: He's good.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: I'm on fire. It's four o'clock in the afternoon. I've
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: done nothing but talk all day and I'm delirious. So
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: let's go home.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, bye.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: Bye. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.