Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / Why Fed Yield Curve Control Is Price Fixing: Jim Bianco

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Why Fed Yield Curve Control Is Price Fixing: Jim Bianco · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl podcast. I'm Paul swing you
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma Wicks. Each day
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  Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for
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  Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or
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  Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple
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  Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. Paul this week starts the marking
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: period of are we seeing a hopium trade or is
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  Speaker 1: there something real underpinning this. We're seeing a real beginning
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  Speaker 1: of a of a reopening and a lot of people
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: gaining optimism that perhaps we will get a sharper rebound
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: than some people had expected. It's sort of a V
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  Speaker 1: shaped recovery and in V shaped recovery expectations um Joining
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  Speaker 1: us now to discuss Jim Bianco, President and founder of
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  Speaker 1: Bianco Research based in Chicago, also a contributor to Bloomberg Opinion.
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  Speaker 1: I love speaking with Jim. You always have a great
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  Speaker 1: contrarian but apt view of multi asset class perspective, but
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  Speaker 1: with a focus the bond market right now, what you're
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  Speaker 1: seeing is it more hope than reality? I'm afraid that
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  Speaker 1: there's a little bit more hope in here than the reality.
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  Speaker 1: And here's why. If you go back to two thousand eight,
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  Speaker 1: at the worst point of that recession, you had output
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  Speaker 1: at nine of what it was in two thousand seven,
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  Speaker 1: you only had a four percent contraction, and output um
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  Speaker 1: in the Great Depression, you actually had a sevent of
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  Speaker 1: the output that you had at high. If you go
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  Speaker 1: with the consensus figures, we should have about an eleven
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  Speaker 1: or twelve percent contraction at the end of the second quarter.
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  Speaker 1: Then comes the rebound. Okay, we got to get back
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  Speaker 1: to where we were. We gotta get back to night
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  Speaker 1: and that's would just put us at a two thousand
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  Speaker 1: eight type recession. We gotta get back to percent of
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  Speaker 1: where we were to have a garden variety recession. So
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  Speaker 1: when I look at things like the mobility numbers, the
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  Speaker 1: open table numbers, the consumption of gasoline numbers, these numbers
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  Speaker 1: are nowhere near getting back to just two percent of
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  Speaker 1: where they were in January. There's still twenty or thirty
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  Speaker 1: percent below. And I'm worried that we're not going to
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  Speaker 1: get all the way back. And I'll give you one
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  Speaker 1: more um uh statistics Yesterday we had two point one
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  Speaker 1: million people file for initial unemployment claims. If you add
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  Speaker 1: in the pandemic insurance for the gig workers, it's more
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  Speaker 1: like three million. And I got this from Mike McKee.
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  Speaker 1: He tweeted this out yesterday. Look, we're ten weeks into
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  Speaker 1: the pandemic, and last week the Connecticut became the fiftieth
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  Speaker 1: state to be in some stage of restarting their economy.
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  Speaker 1: If we still had two million people file for claims
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  Speaker 1: last week when everybody restarted, those are probably permanently lost jobs.
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  Speaker 1: Those are probably not temporarily furlough jobs because of the
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  Speaker 1: pandemic that happened leer in the pandemic. That really leads
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  Speaker 1: up me to believe, yeah, we'll get back to where
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  Speaker 1: we were. But that's still a bad recession, and I
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  Speaker 1: think that's gonna be a big disappointment for a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people. So, Jim, I guess a new term for
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  Speaker 1: me and for many UH investors this week was yield
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  Speaker 1: curve control. What does yield curve control? Me to you,
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  Speaker 1: and you think it's a good idea slash strategy, yield
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  Speaker 1: curve control, it goes by another phrase called price fixing.
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  Speaker 1: That's the price they set the price. They've already done
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  Speaker 1: it on the front end of the yeld curve. They
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  Speaker 1: set it at zero, and now we're talking about them
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  Speaker 1: setting the price further out the yeld curve, and then
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  Speaker 1: they would say with their balance sheet they would use
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  Speaker 1: it in an unlimited way. Hopefully wouldn't be unlimited, that
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  Speaker 1: they would ensure that that price would be set. Price
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  Speaker 1: fixing has never worked. Now to be charitable about it,
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  Speaker 1: the day you set the price is probably close to
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  Speaker 1: the proper value um, just like Japan did in two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen when they set the price of their
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  Speaker 1: tenure yield at zero. But then over time, the economy will,
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  Speaker 1: you know, expand contract investor preferences will change, things will
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  Speaker 1: be different, But what won't change is the interest rate
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  Speaker 1: that will be the same every single day, and eventually,
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  Speaker 1: over time it becomes the wrong interest rate and it
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  Speaker 1: winds up causing more problems than it's worth. So I'm
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  Speaker 1: very worried. I think if the FED words to study
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  Speaker 1: the Japanese example of yield curve control, or the example
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  Speaker 1: that they did during World War two from seven they
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  Speaker 1: did yield curve control, it largely didn't work. But yet
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  Speaker 1: I think the reason they're doing it is because they
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  Speaker 1: don't want to go to negative interest rates, another scheme
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  Speaker 1: that doesn't work, and this one is kind of like
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  Speaker 1: a negative interest rates light, you know, and it just
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  Speaker 1: gets them to be able to say that they're doing something,
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  Speaker 1: but they're not doing the draconian thing of negative interest rates.
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  Speaker 1: But nevertheless, it's still not a good policy, and I
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  Speaker 1: hope that they don't follow through on it. Well's showing
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  Speaker 1: the limits of monetary policy at a time when people
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  Speaker 1: are saying fiscal policy is necessary. And we've gotten that,
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  Speaker 1: and this was evident in the consumer income numbers that
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  Speaker 1: we received today, where we actually saw saw incomes rise
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  Speaker 1: by ten and a half percent in April, people attributing
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  Speaker 1: this to the enhanced unemployment benefits. When will we start
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  Speaker 1: to see this in spending which actually was worse than expectations.
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  Speaker 1: We're seeing people put this money in savings or by
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  Speaker 1: basic necessities, but it really isn't bleeding into overall consumption yet. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you know what's consistent with that. Number two is the
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  Speaker 1: University of Chicago study that said scent of the people
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  Speaker 1: that are now getting unemployment insurance, and remember there's an
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  Speaker 1: extra six hundred dollars a week from the federal government.
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  Speaker 1: In there are actually making more money off of unemployment
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  Speaker 1: insurance than they did in their job, and that's what
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  Speaker 1: you see in those personal consumption numbers. I think really
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  Speaker 1: the reason that you're seeing the spending is are the
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  Speaker 1: spending not kick in is we know that that's going
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  Speaker 1: to end in a couple of months unless it's renewed. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I'm you know, I'm I'm happy that
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  Speaker 1: I'm getting more money on unemployment than I didn't, uh,
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  Speaker 1: than when I was working. But I know that that's
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  Speaker 1: not forever. And I think once there's a permanent resolution
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  Speaker 1: to that, either it gets extended for a long period
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  Speaker 1: of time or doesn't, is going to determine how people spend. Hey, Jim,
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  Speaker 1: thanks much for joining us. We always appreciate your perspective.
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  Speaker 1: Jim Bianco, President and founder Bianco Research. Jim is also
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  Speaker 1: a contributor to Bloomberger Opinion, giving us his thoughts on
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  Speaker 1: kind of the FED, the economy, and what is to
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: come for the US economy. This is Bloomberg Markets with
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Lisa A. Bramoeds and Paul's Wheeney on Bloomberg Radio. While
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: we are awaiting a press conference from President Trump sometime
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  Speaker 1: later today. One of the many topics likely to be
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: addressed will be the rising tensions between the US and China.
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  Speaker 1: Whenever we want to get smart on China, we welcome
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  Speaker 1: our guest, Leland Miller. Leland is the CEO of China
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  Speaker 1: Basebook International. So, Leland, I hate to put you on
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  Speaker 1: the spot. What do you think we could possibly hear
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  Speaker 1: from President Trump today as it relates to the current
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  Speaker 1: state of US Chinese relations. Well, look, the issue of
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  Speaker 1: the day is Hong Kong, and I think it's important
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  Speaker 1: to understand the landscape has changed dramatically over the past
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  Speaker 1: several weeks. So, first, Beijing pushed through Article twenty three
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  Speaker 1: uh sedition laws in Hong Kong. It's a process, but
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  Speaker 1: they've announced it's happening. It's coming out of the National
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  Speaker 1: People's Congress. The State Department, the U S State Department
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  Speaker 1: has responded by the certifying Hong Kong as an autonomous
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  Speaker 1: entity uh SO, saying there's no difference between Hong Kong
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  Speaker 1: and China based on its review. What this is essentially
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  Speaker 1: done is is set the two sides up to see
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  Speaker 1: how much is this going to escalate and President Trump
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  Speaker 1: has as president today, he's going to UH layout the
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: fact that that the situation has changed. The United States
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  Speaker 1: is prepared to to escalate in some dramatic ways if
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  Speaker 1: it's these Hong Kong changed dramatically on the ground. But
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  Speaker 1: I think right now you're at a point in which
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  Speaker 1: each side is looking at each other and saying, we're
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  Speaker 1: going to see how bad this gets, and we're going
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  Speaker 1: to react based on some of the realities on the
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  Speaker 1: ground rather than rather than the initial step of of
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  Speaker 1: the laws going into effect. What are some of the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: USS options in getting tough with China right now? Well, look,
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  Speaker 1: you can you have nuclear options that the the White
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  Speaker 1: House is is not ready to go to. But I
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: think the more realistic ones are requirement and leads a
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  Speaker 1: requirement changes. UH. There's a lot of worries about extradition,
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  Speaker 1: UM and and and ways of the Chinese will take
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  Speaker 1: advantage of the new laws to basically disappear people that
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: needs to the extraditions and major topic. UH. Sanctions are
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: going to be on the table, particularly financial sanctions. And
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: then of course tariffs are looming in the background. You know,
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  Speaker 1: the President loves tariffs. This doesn't mean they're ready to
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  Speaker 1: actually uh commit to to hiking tariffs and and to
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  Speaker 1: revoking special status. Uh they don't appear to be there yet,
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  Speaker 1: but it means that the president has to lay out
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  Speaker 1: the landscape, here's what we've got on the table, and
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  Speaker 1: then sort of bait their Beijing to to behave within
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  Speaker 1: then the construct of the new system leland with any
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  Speaker 1: sense of why China is taking this harder more, uh
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  Speaker 1: sterner stands towards Hong Kong right now? Is there anything
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  Speaker 1: unique in the in the timing here. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's there's a there's a tendency to look at everything
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  Speaker 1: through the US China leads, and and it's not that
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  Speaker 1: they're even't a US China angle here, but this is basically, uh,
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  Speaker 1: a reaction to Hong Kong's domestic political schedule. You have,
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  Speaker 1: you have legislative Council elections in September, and if those proceed,
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  Speaker 1: pro Beijing forces are going to get demolished. So Beijing
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  Speaker 1: had an option of either postponing or suspending or getting
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  Speaker 1: rid of those elections, or else moving in the summer
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  Speaker 1: window to push forward Article twenty three, which will essentially
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  Speaker 1: make it illegal to do anything promoting secessions. Addition, treason
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  Speaker 1: gives them wide uh, you know, a wide variety of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: options to be able to ensure that people they don't
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  Speaker 1: like don't rise to power in Hong Kong. So this
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  Speaker 1: is their window. They're moving on it. It just happens
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  Speaker 1: to be the very critical time in the US China
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  Speaker 1: relationship as well. So everything is a reaction everything else.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: You said it earlier, and you said this number of
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: times that you think that the Phase one trade deal
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: is going to get torpedoed later this year. We were
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: speaking with a number of people from the Trump administration.
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  Speaker 1: That doesn't seem to be on the table right now.
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  Speaker 1: There seems to be a cautiousness about going that route.
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  Speaker 1: What do you think would make that change? Well, I
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  Speaker 1: think the reality on the ground is the Chinese can't
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: live up to the terms of the deal. And you
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: can say that some of its COVID or a lot
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: of its COVID. Uh, you could say part of it
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: was an unrealistic deal. But going into the fall, we're
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: entering the most toxic period in US China relations since
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: its Tenement Square is back in. I think things are
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: gonna get really, really tough and As a result, it's
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: gonna be very difficult for the President to stick by
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a deal, particularly with the Chinese, particularly when they're not
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: adhering to most of it. They're hitting some targets, they
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: may even exceed a few targets on the agricultural side,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: but in order to back the deal, the President is
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: going to have a lot of pressure on him to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to to to condemn the Chinese and will walk away
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: from it. And I think that sooner rather than later.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: That actually gets to it's interesting Leland, I think real quickly.
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  Speaker 1: My question, I guess is just one. Is there really
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: anything that we can do to prevent Hong Kong from
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: really becoming a significantly a part of China and really
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: lose It's it's an independence in internationalism. Uh No, we
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: have no way of stopping what's happening, but we can
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: affect how it looks. So one of the reasons why
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't expect to see the full range of options
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: laid out today, or at least uh pushed out today,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: is that the United States has an ability to affect
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: how aggressively the Chinese act in Hong Kong, even if
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: when Article twenty three is a reality on the ground.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: If people are disappearing left and right, particularly you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: next week is a tenement UH anniversary. UH. That will
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: be extremely incendiary. If this law applies retroactively, it would
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: be it would encompass all the people who can participate
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: in democracy protests for the last couple of years. It
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: would be extremely incendiary. Really worry people on the ground
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, even more so than than than in
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: this case. Now. So the United States, by keeping active,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: by keeping aggressive, but keeping its options open, can affect
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the way this plays out on the ground. It can't
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: reverse it, but can affect how it looks, you know,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: six months or a year from now. Leland Miller, thank
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. As always, your
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: insights are incredibly valuable. Leland Miller, chief executive Officer of
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: China beige Book International. This is Bloomberg Markets with Lisa
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Ramowitz and Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio. The market has
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: been buffeted recently by a series of economic data that
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: show a brutal reality, as well as the incredible policy
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: response that has fueled optimism in markets, and now increasingly
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: a focus on growing tensions between the US and China.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: There is no one better to speak about all of
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: these things in the intersection of them, the Nathan Sheets,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: chief economist and head of macroeconomic research at PIGEM Fixed
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Income with more than eight hundred billion dollars under management,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: who has worked at the FED working on some of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: these emergency programs during the last financial crisis, as well
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: as in the Treasury Department, working internationally with a front
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: eye view in the possible issues that may arise there. Nathan,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. We have
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: talked so much about the policy response. I want to
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: shift gears in terms of the US's response to China
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and from a financial perspective, how worried market watchers should
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: be about the escalating tensions right now between the U
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: S and China. The US China relationship is clearly a
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: first order risk for the economy and for the markets.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I think we saw last year with the trade war,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and I think that this escalation and the tensions between
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the United States and China UH that we're seeing in
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: recent weeks here also holds some very significant rest we
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: need to worry about. UH. Now, my expectation is the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: President Trump is going to try to keep this mainly
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: in the field of rhetoric between now and the election,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: but the possibility that he missteps, the possibility that Congress
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: forces his hand, or the possibility that the Chinese react
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: more vigorously than what the administration is expecting. I think
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: all of those possibilities um wold meaningful risks, and I
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: think our our our concrete uh, you know, risks that
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: we need to be thinking hard about as we as
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: we consider the markets over the next six months. All right,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: so we've got that to worry about it. But we
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: also have the reopening, if you will, Nathan of America.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: It's kind of on a state by state basis, region
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: by region basis. What is your expectation for how this
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: reopening goes and what it might mean for economic economic
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: activity and a potential rebound later in the year. So
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I am persuaded that the geographical diversity and heterogeneity that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you described that different regions are opening up at different
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: paces is likely to be a feature of the US
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: economy that is somewhat supportive of recovery. And to emphasize that,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I think right now much of the industrial northeast of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the country is still pretty well locked down, but there
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: are broad swaths of the south, the Midwest, and the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: western part of the country where the economy is moving
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: back toward normal at a pretty pretty rapid rate. So
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: when I put all of this together, it gives me
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: maybe a little bit more confidence than I had a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago that the US economy is going to
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: be able to achieve a gradual U shaped recovery. I
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: don't expect the level of GDP to be back to
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: where it was at the end of two thousand nineteen
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: until a well ended but I think a gradual recovery
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: growth in the second half of the year is is
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a pretty reasonable baseline, and I think it's the one
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that's being priced in UH in UH in the markets
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: at this stage. The hallmark of this downturn is the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: unemployment rate, which has been so ching and may reach
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: with some expect to this month and figures that come
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: out next Friday, a week from today. I'm struggling to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: understand the skills gap that emerges and how we closed
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: at the idea that a lot of these jobs will
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: not come back in the same form and that people
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: will have to get rehired in new roles that require
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: new skills. How long do you think that takes and
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: what could speed it up? In in my view, the
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: three big questions that characterize this UH this recovery, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I think frame the risks around them or first, UH,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: what happens with the virus? Second, what happens in terms
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: of psychology of of consumers? And the third one is
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: is exactly this issue that you're highlighting through this period
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to what extent has the underlying structure of the economy
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: been damaged? How many workers are there that are not
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: going to be able to go back to their jobs
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and their skills are diminishing. How many firms that were
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: previous to sleep productive will now be bankrupt and as
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: a result of that, unable to produce. I think it
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: is very much The answer is very much an open issue.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: But I think what we can say is the faster
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: we're able to get back, the better the virus proceeds,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that the less damage will see over the medium to
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: long run UH in the economy. I think the other
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: point that's important here is I think that the stimulus
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: that the Fed and in Congress have put in place
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: will also help buffer the downside and help drive a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: stronger recovery than might occur otherwise. So I guess I
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: would say I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't see long
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: live damage, but we're still in a place where there's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty surrounding those assessments. Nathan, you mentioned
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: fiscal stimulus. We've gotten a couple of rounds so far.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I guess the the next one eventually might be something
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: along the lines at the House pass the three trillion
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: dollar stimulus bill. How important is another round the fiscal stimulus,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: particularly one that focuses on states and local municipalities as
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: many governors have called for. So I I do expect
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that we will see another fiscal stimulus bill. I think
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: that he needs to replenish the p p P program
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: for the small businesses, to extend the unemployment benefits, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: as you say, to do something for the standard local governments.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I think that that is UH will be compelling and
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Congress will see that as something that is is unavoidable.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: That said, I don't think we're going to see a
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: three trillion dollar package. My guess is there would be
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: more in the one to one and a half trillion
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: dollar range UH, and I would expect that Congress would
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: approve that probably late June or into the first half
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of July. Nathan twenty seconds. I'm just wondering. Right now
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: we're seeing a FED balance sheet at seven point one
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: trillion dollars. Where do you think it gets by the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: end of the year. Well, I think it's going to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: be probably close to ten trillion, a little bit below that.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: But you know what we're seeing now is market stabilization, Quewie.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I think come the middle of the year we're going
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to see monetary policy of it with the focus on
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the dual mandate, and that the FAT is going to
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: be buying so close to ten trillion by the end
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: of the year, and uh, you know who knows in
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: coming years. Nathan, Thanks so much for joining us. We
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: always appreciate your insights. Nathan Sheet's chief economists ahead of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: macro economic research at JIM Fixed Income, based in Newark,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: New Jersey. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg pan L podcast.
• 20:47
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• 20:50
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• 20:53
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• 20:55
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• 20:58
  Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide on'm Bloomberg radioh