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Grumpy Uncle Earl Spencer Razzes the Royal Family · Boomer Has It!

0:01
SPEAKER_00: 29 years after her death, Princess Diana has returned to haunt the royal family and stir up more headlines.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Her younger brother, the much married Earl Spencer, has published another memoir.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: This one is not about getting beaten up and traumatized at boarding school.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: That was the last one, but a damaging account of the days after the death of his sister, which casts everyone in a bad light, including maybe especially himself.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: After Andrew's Jeffrey Epstein scandal, which lost him his titles and made him a pariah in the family, after Harry and Meghan's untimely return to the UK, after the King's continued cancer treatment, and now this embarrassing expose, when will the Royals Ryan of Bad Luck end?
0:53
SPEAKER_02: I would wager not anytime soon, if the British papers have anything to say about it.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm JB Miller in Dorset, England.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Jim Jelamis, also in Dorset, England.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: And this is Boomer Has It.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: JB, can I jump in quickly?
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: You just gave us a rundown of some very unfortunate events.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Would it be fair to say that this has been a year for the Royals?
1:31
SPEAKER_00: A terrible, horrible, no good, very bad year?
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it has.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: It's been a terrible year.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to overestimate how damaging Andrew's scandal, his association with Jeffrey Epstein has been for the royal family.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: He is the prior of the family.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: No one wants to be seen with him.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: Supposedly he spends all of his time in some big house on the on the Sandringham estate.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: That's the one of the king's houses in Norfolk.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: So well out of London view.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: He watches television all day, rides a horse.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: No one wants to be seen having anything to do with him.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: That was in the spring.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: He was arrested on his 66th birthday.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: Happy birthday, Andrew.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's been quite traumatic with the king's cancer uh diagnosis.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And then uh Harry, Prince Harry, we all know, wrote uh this book, published this book, Spare, which didn't spare anyone in the royal family.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Caused a great breach between him and his brother, Prince William, the current Prince of Wales, who hasn't spoken.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: They haven't spoken in about three years.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: Harry's returned with his family to the UK wanting to mend his relationship with his family.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Good luck.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: He has spoken to his dad, the king.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: He has not spoken to his brother.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: It to me it's kind of that's kind of sad because they both shared this traumatized uh youth.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't think anyone can understand what they went through except for you know them when their mother died in 1997.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: It's it's authentic trauma, I would say.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: It's and authentic and and absolutely being cast in the public light can't make it any make can only make it worse.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean I think it explains a lot of you know you know Harry's uh in Harry's problems.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a big fan of his, but I I totally recognize what he went through, and it's hard to um you know overestimate the trauma that he that he went through.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: But um and you you know a bit about this family, as as we've discussed.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: You you wrote a book about the family.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: I wrote a book about Princess Diana called Dutch Duc H.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: That was that was her nickname uh when she was a girl in school.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: I know a bit a bit about the family dynamic.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: This this new book um that's just come out um by her brother, a younger brother, Charles Spencer, the Earl Spencer.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna call him Earl Spencer to distinguish him from King Charles, because they both are they're both first name, but Charles.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: American listeners, his first name is not Earl.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: That is a title.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: That's his name is Charles.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Charles Spencer.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: We're innocents abroad here.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm an innocent abroad here in the U.S.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: to Mark Twain.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Here I am.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Please, I will stay in character.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: I hope it doesn't annoy you too much.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: Please continue.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I hope so.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Earl Spencer gave the the truly lacerating eulogy during um Princess Diana's funeral at Westminster Abbey in 1997.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Maybe people will old enough will remember.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: He kind of accused the royal family of allowing his uh late sister to be, you know, chased, and and she was chased out of the royal family, and then she was chased by paparazzi, which killed her.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: And he called the two boys.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, Prince William was then 15, Prince Harry was 12, his blood family, that his family were their blood family.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, so is the royal family.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: It's 50 percent.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: Half their family is are Spencer, other Spencer, the other half are the Windsor's, the the Queen's family.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: He was very snooty and angry.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think you were telling me that he he practices one-upmanship with the family.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: This besides saying blood family, he has some, he makes some airs about the the um legacy of his yeah, he was made, he said something to the along the lines of um, you know, our family goes the Spencers go back, you know, 1200 years, uh compared with the royal family, only goes back to, you know, the 1700s uh they had to be brought over from Hanover, and then the Stuarts had to come from Scotland.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: You know, he was casting aspersions to the the sort of legacy because uh the Windsors are Johnny Cum Lake.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: They're Johnny Cum Lateleys.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: And I the way I read it was if you think you're snobs, you know, we're even bigger snobs than you are, Spencer's.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was just kind of I thought it was kind of a quality.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Understandably he was angry and upset, he was traumatized.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: But the revelations in this book, I have no idea why they came out.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: What what what's the point of them coming out?
6:24
SPEAKER_02: It's 29 years, not even the 30th anniversary of his sister's death.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, it just seems like you know, uh uh he's monet, you hate the word monetized, but Charles Spencer, or the sorry, the Earl Spencer has truly monetized his position as uh Princess Diana's younger brother, because if it weren't for that connection, no one would give a any rat's ass about him.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: He's sorry, did you have to be so sorry?
6:54
SPEAKER_02: Rat's arse about him.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: And uh so I don't know um why he brought this book out.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: There is called Swan Song Diana My Sister, which is a really ungainly title.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: It's been uh serialized in the Daily Mail, um, which uh for YouTube uh viewers I'm holding up yesterday's edition.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: What do you think of that photo?
7:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh to me, it doesn't look like her.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: You said it did like her, it looked like her.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a black and white photo, and she looks solemn and she looks young.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: She looks like somebody else.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Young photo.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: Before she um had her nose job.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, that's guys another story.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: So uh to my mind, he's just adding fuel to the fire because there really has been uh a fire in the in the uh in the royal family.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: The revelations are uh should I go through the revelations in the book?
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Should we should we talk about how this is being drip fed to the public here in the UK?
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that the yeah, that's that's interesting because it's so different here in the UK.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: There's still a lot of print media.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: There are about eight or nine daily London papers, which are also national papers.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: We're down in Dorset, which is about two and a half hours from London.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh, all the London papers are here in the grocery stores for the news agents.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: You can buy the London papers in Liverpool, US US listeners and watchers.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: If you like print, you will love the UK.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a very unusual lot of newspapers.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: If you walk into a store, even a grocery store, there are racks with at least six to eight dailies, I would say.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, very impressive.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: And what what they're doing is something that's it's very 19th century, I would see, that they're serializing this memoir.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it appears every day over a period of weeks in the Daily Mail, which must have paid a hefty sum for the right to publish this thing.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a it's a lost leader as far as I'm concerned.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't think any of these pay I think the Daily Mail might be squeaking out um a profit.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Most of the dailies are losing money.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, they have this is a this is a serializing something is a is a practice that comes from the days of your.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I was doing a little research.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Fiction was commonly serialized in newspapers, the most famous being Charles Dickens.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: This is the 19th century.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Are you going back a few years?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Alexander Dumas.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, here we are.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's 2026.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Last I saw.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: We're serializing in the nonfiction.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the famous nonfiction that was serialized were the Federalist papers.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: All right, Harl Mark.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: The notorious example here in England was in the 1980s, the London Times, I think it was serialized, the Hitler Diaries.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and they were warned that these were forgeries, and they went ahead anyway, and they were it what they were forgeries.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: It was a huge embarrassment.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: That was serialized.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the Washington Post used to serialize Bob Woodward's latest nonfiction book.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Of course, he had a relationship with the Washington Post.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: I don't, he hasn't published much recently.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's so it's a kind of archaic delivery system.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't think the Washington Post actually serializes it.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: I think they publish excerpts, but I I don't think you you get to the end of uh you know a Bob Woodward passage and it says, stay tuned tomorrow.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: No, that's a fair point.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: I think it was uh like a first look um deal.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe he was on a retainer from the post.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, yes, this is maybe different.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: There are extra actual excerpts of the book.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: The Communist Manifesto was excerpted, serialized in a German daily.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Truman Capote's in Cold Blood was in the New Yorker.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: In the New Yorker, right four times.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so different four segments.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: But we don't we don't do that anymore, do we?
10:42
SPEAKER_00: In the US?
10:42
SPEAKER_00: No, I do as we're anywhere.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: It's not a favorite delivery system.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, how do they sell nonfiction books?
10:51
SPEAKER_02: How is it through review online media?
10:54
SPEAKER_02: How are books?
10:55
SPEAKER_00: We have this thing called what's it called?
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Inter Internactor.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Internet, internet.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe that happens online.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: It might it actually might happen digitally, but I I can't think of anything that comes to mind.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: But it but but if it's a nonfiction book that has revelations, don't they want to release um some of them in a newspaper to whet the reader's appetite to I mean to my mind, this is kind of gonna stop a lot of people maybe buying the book because then the the most prominent revelations are in the paper.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: And they're not even all in the daily.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you have to read the Daily Mail to get a revelations.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be on the BBC, it's gonna be on the news, it's gonna be in the other papers.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: I've can I can I be honest?
11:37
SPEAKER_00: If if I read a lengthy review of a book, sometimes don't tell anybody I won't buy the book.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm the I'm that way too.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: Um so so the papers that didn't that didn't pay for the serialization rights, um, the book is under an embargo, which means the bookstores are not allowed to sell the book until a certain day.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: But four copies of the Dutch edition, so the the version of the book translated into Dutch somehow mysteriously got um removed from a van in uh Holland or something and swiftly translated into English, or somebody speed read it and translated it.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: And so that that's how some of the revelations reach some of the other newspapers, I think.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: This happened.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: They probably just put it into Google Translate.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: Google Translate, symptomatic of um the way that people get their news.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh September is the biggest launch of um new books.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: There's a certain day, like they release them on Tuesdays in the UK and Thursdays in the US or something like that.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: So you're competing with a hundred other titles being released on the same day.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: This is the lead up to Christmas.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: These are books that the publishers hope people will be giving uh as Christmas presents um at the end of this year.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh but so let me ask you about this book.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, could you just share some of the revelations and then because you're a royal observer, you might be able to share a point of view for those of us Americans who um don't do that.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh how how is the public receiving it?
13:19
SPEAKER_00: And what are we to make of Earl Spencer, the Earl Spencer?
13:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how the public are are receiving it.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that I I don't I can't answer that.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: It's only they've only just had excerpts of the book the last couple of days.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: So maybe the sales of the Daily Mail went up.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Are these shocking revelations?
13:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Then Prince Charles sounded, quote, giddily elated.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, that adverb.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh giddily, it's a really uh ungainly word, ungainly title, giddily, it's a terrible word.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: Giddily elated, that's a quote.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: When um he spoke to the Earl Spencer after Diana's death and was, quote, matter of fact in describing how he broke the news to his sons.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we if anyone have seen the movie The Queen, that's a scene in the film.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Remember the remember the film The Queen that Stephen Fears um and Peter Morgan.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Peter Morgan.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: He wrote this script, and it's all about um the death, how the death of uh Princess Diana affected the royal family, and how the Queen belatedly was forced to return to London from um Balmorald, how a big thing this was.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: They underestimated the emotional impact of this death.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: I have to be honest here, I think it's probably true that the royal family were not totally uh dis, I don't know how to uh phrase this properly, but they were um, you know that line from um is it Beckett Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?
14:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, they were probably pleased to see the end of Prince Stanley because she was causing a lot of havoc.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're gonna get in trouble for saying that.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll I'll get a friendly telegram from Earl Spencer, probably, because that's what he he contends.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I don't believe that then Prince Charles um said, and this is a quote from the book he rest assured he hissed.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: We'll forget her soon enough.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: Spencer claims Charles said to him on the phone.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: That he hissed it.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: He hissed like a serpent.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe that was the Charles's uh Prince Charles's inside voice coming out.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: I kind of doubt it.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: I think he was probably in shock, like everyone was.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: His ex-wife, the mother of his two sons who he was with at the time, you know, died in this crazy car accident that we all know about in Paris with her then lover.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, in the you know, car being driven by a drunk guy and other than wearing seatbelts.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: So it was a none wore seatbelts.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: None wore if she won a seatbelt, she would have survived.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh the the that's sort of the conventional wisdom.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh they she had plenty of time to put a seatbelt on.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like they were suddenly chased by a paparazzi, they were chased by a paparazzi all the way from the restaurant, all the way from the Ritz.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: So uh buckle up, guys.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: I just never understood that part of it.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I but I think it's crazy that people don't buckle up.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: So do you remember people might remember the funeral procession where the two young princes remember, aged 15 and aged 12, William and Harry, were forced to walk behind their their mother's hearse, their mother's coffin, alongside their father, Prince Charles, their grandfather, Prince Philip, and their uncle, the Earl Spencer.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: So um that traumatized them.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: They shouldn't have been forced to do that.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: They that was uh that's in my book, by the way, Dutch.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Do you see it?
16:55
SPEAKER_02: Um and um Earl Spencer contends that the reason Prince Charles really wanted his two young sons to march in that procession was because he was gonna march the procession and he was afraid he would the public would be heckling him along the funeral road.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so that the children were shielding, yeah, shielding him.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the two boys were shielding.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: No one's gonna heckle uh Prince.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know if anyone ever heckled him anyway, but he was afraid he, you know, the the public really hated him and would accuse him of uh, I don't know, driving her out of the family.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: It was not a good marriage, as we all know.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: But they they they shouldn't have forced those young boys to march in the feudal procession.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: That was absurd.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: And they never forgot, they they never have completely got over anything.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was pretty traumatizing.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Supposedly, Princess Diana almost called off the wedding when she first when they uh the big royal wedding that everyone knows about, the fairy tale wedding.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: She supposedly later c contemplated suicide to her younger brother.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh, that may have been in the crown.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
18:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't know.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: She claimed that Charles was in love with his valet.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to make of that.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what that means.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: Was she being facetious and her brother didn't get the joke?
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Earl Spencer is not known for a sense of humor.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: Was she implying Charles was bisexual?
18:21
SPEAKER_02: No one's made much of that in the press.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, I always thought he was just in love with um with Camilla, who was his mistress at this time.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: He wanted to marry her before he'd even met Diana.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: The the royal family was against it and broke up that relationship.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: She married someone else, and uh, you know, he brought they always wanted to be together.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: That seems to be a successful marriage now.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: She's now Queen Camilla.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: So I those are the revelations of the book.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they're well, they're that uh revelatory.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Up up until now, we have a few more days to go, presumably, with with the release of these excerpts or chapters, but they created a stir in Buckingham Palace, and uh King Charles is a rare rebuttal.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: This yes, this is interesting.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: As we reported in the pod about Megan and Harry, there is this mantra uh in the royal family of never explain, never complain.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, we can say that maybe King Charles both complained and tried to explain a few days ago.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: What did he say?
19:26
SPEAKER_02: You have that in your notes.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: I have it here, but he was responding in specifically to a claim that Earl Spencer made that Charles said we'll forget her soon enough.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: I can't, I just can't quite credit that.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't sound likely you know what it sounds like to me.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you know, bad soap opera writing.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe that's people really talk that way.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Is anyone that callous that his ex-wife dies and maybe they had some conflict in their lives?
19:58
SPEAKER_00: We know they do, but would you say we'll forget her soon enough?
20:00
SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Or is it out of context?
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we need to contextualize it.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe we should.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: He's talking.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, ex-wife is one thing, but it's she's the mother of his children.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the key point.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think she was a good mother up to a point.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've always wondered why why she was gallivanting off with her, you know, very um disreputable uh lover, Dodi Al-Fayed, who, when they were carrying on this six-week affair, he was engaged to another woman who was on one of his other yachts.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: He gave her an an engagement ring.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Surprise and marriage who is not a very pleasant surprise for somebody.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Not a very reputable person, I think.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: And do you want to hear the apology?
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, let's hear what what did King Charles, what was the statement from Buckingham Pass?
20:51
SPEAKER_00: While we do not comment on books as a matter of principle, his majesty is mindful that the pain of fraternal grief can cloud reason, affect judgment, and color memory in ways others do not recognize even many years after such a loss.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: There's a typo in this, by the way.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Color is spelled with a U.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Who does that?
21:14
SPEAKER_02: That's not a typo.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: In America, they always leave out the U's by mistake.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: I think they need proofreaders in Buckingham.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Is that all that's the whole statement?
21:22
SPEAKER_02: That's the whole state.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: I I kind of that statement's been criticized as being mealy mouthed.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: I like that statement.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a good statement because what he's saying is Earl Spencer's a blooming liar already, don't you know?
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, but he's saying it in this rather highfalutin language.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: The Queen's a little condescending, but it it it gives him the high road, doesn't he?
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, the queen he's saying, he's explaining it.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: He's saying, well, it's fraternal grief.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Because it can change your change your view, which is true.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: It's quite generous in that regard.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: It is generous.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: He's not saying he's not outright.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Saying Earl Spencer's a liar saying he's not saying it's Lord, he's out he's saying he's a little out of his head with grief.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: 29 years old.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Earl Spencer uh was so consumed with grief that he wasn't he's misremembered this conversation.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: The Queen used to have this wonderful phrase, it was something like um memories, where was memories will differ?
22:26
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm getting that wrong.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh people's memories will differ, or something like that.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: She in in a in another statement.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and when it will well, yeah, and when she was alive.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: This she said this when she was alive.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Um recollections will vary or yeah, but it was it it was related to, I think, this very event.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Am I right?
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh, when she said that uh recollections will uh it was it was pretty eloquent.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I can't recross it too.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: It's a shame we don't have it in the she or her speech writers were quite look look for a short video when we'll report back on exactly what the queen said.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, recollections Mary.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: So that's sort of what the king is saying.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean it girl Spencer kind of is kicking the kicking the king when he's down, and what's the what's the point of this book?
23:18
SPEAKER_02: And what is the point he's saying in this book?
23:22
SPEAKER_02: And this is his nephews, Harry and uh William are his nephews, and supposedly he has quite a close relationship with Prince Harry.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: But he's saying in this book, well, your dad is some callous guy, and and is and when your mother died, he he was um making you out it to be a really minor event that people are gonna forget about it.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: You can forget about your beloved mother pretty soon.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, that did not happen.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: If he said that or not, it just didn't happen.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Um people haven't forgotten about her.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: I think we have to be reminded as boomers that um the death of Princess Diana was 29 years ago.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of people um don't remember uh when you know it's a historical event.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: It's a historical event at her funeral.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: And and it was unbelievable what happened.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't here when it happened, but um when Princess Diana died in Paris, there was this explosion of emotional response in England, in Britain, uh, a country not known for its displays of emotion, really.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think even Brits were surprised by their own response to this and their famous photographs and video of thousands and thousands of bouquets of flowers left outside uh Kensington Palace and Buckingham Palace.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: And uh, there was just an outpouring of grief, which consumed the country, and that's what the film The Queen is about.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: I've heard many people say in the years afterwards, god mean a Brits say, like, what was that about?
25:05
SPEAKER_02: What what did wow?
25:07
SPEAKER_02: That was weird what we all did.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: That's not that's not us.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was extraordinary, and the the the queen was caught on the back foot.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: The beloved queen was perceived as being old cold.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: She was up in Balmoral, that's her favorite, uh what was her favorite castle in Scotland, quite remote Scotland, so far away from the paparazzi in London.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: And it was August, and she was with the grant her grandchildren um and her son.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: So she's the William and Harry were up there, and she wanted to protect them from all the press coverage and this um outpouring of grief.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: She thought it was a private family matter, which it clearly wasn't from the response.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: It was not a private family matter.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: You really you really can't have it both ways, can you?
26:01
SPEAKER_00: By the way, how do they get to Belmoral if it's so far?
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Do they chopper in like they do in succession?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: They get in choppers, or is it a high-speed train?
26:09
SPEAKER_00: They get on the Hogwarts Express.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, the house was built by Queen Victoria and Prince Albert, and they had to run a uh branch line.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: They was to go by train, uh, Queen Victoria.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: They would stop the train when she wanted to get dressed because she didn't want it.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: It was 24 hours, I think, from um London or from South South of Penguin.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's this a lot of conflict in this family.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Who hates who?
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Why do they hate each other?
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And I I have this speculative idea.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: I think you might have touched on it in your book, but maybe give us a rundown on some of these rivalries that that we haven't covered already.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Harry doesn't like his brother, he made fun of him, of his hair.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Earl is not nice to Charles.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Does he talk to anybody else?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Earl, Earl making the cover.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Earl come on in, it is ready.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Earl, Earl.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: I have a friend, Earl.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Aaron, true.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, what if the royals went to family therapy?
27:12
SPEAKER_00: And let's say Dr.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Frazier Crane from the TV show Fraser or Jennifer Melfi, Dr.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Melfi from The Sopranos, or more contemporary, what if Gillian Anderson, the sex therapist, saw all of them and they learned to express their feelings in a healthy way, to respect personal boundaries.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Here's I've got a question for you at the end.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: All the things you're supposed to do to sustain a strong relationship.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: If if they came out completely cured of recrimination, enmity, and strife, would it be cynical to say that they'd be less interesting?
27:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, Charles and Diana did go to counseling, they were in marriage counseling.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: And um, I don't think it worked.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: It clearly didn't work, but they tried it.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: I think Diana was probably more receptive to it than than Charles was.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm surprised that book hasn't come up.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: My god, you'd think I know they're supposed to be sworn to secrecy, but you think that that shrink would have found some way to have a a told as told to book that's but it's never come up.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, would they be less in therapy?
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Therapists can't do that.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: That would be unethical.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: No, but we were talking earlier about uh Joan Didion posthumously had her notes on her husband's therapy on John Grooku Dunn's therapy or something that came out.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: And they were they were in a in her personal artifacts that someone had stored to make a museum for Joan Didion or something.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't remember that part of it.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it wasn't they weren't notes from the psychiatrist or therapist themselves.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: It was her own notes from her sessions.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's different.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's and I think it's a little tawdry for me to say that they'd be less interesting without conflict.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: But I think this is very bad for the king.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: And you know, when I read about the royal family, I hear this nickname coming up a lot, the firm.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: So if if they are a firm, that would make King Charles CEO or president, much so, yeah, and Earl Charles would be the executive director of finance or a division head or something.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: And when your division head you mean earls or Earl Spencer, the Earl, the Earl Spencer, yeah, that guy.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh when you're when your division head is selling a tell-all to the dailies, what does that say about firm operations or gulp leadership?
29:49
SPEAKER_00: What does it say about Charles as a leader during and this is critical during his reign?
29:54
SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you rein in this this wild family?
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, Spencer is an you know in-law to an ex-wife who's now passed away.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he I guess he's an uncle to the to the princes, but um, he's not considered part of the firm.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's a different family.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's not there not much engagement, clearly, between those two families.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: That's not changed in 29 years.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: That's that that's interesting to me in a way.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's that grudge that Earl Spencer, you know, st uh had during his sister's lifetime, continues 29 years after her death.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: No love loss there.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: How good is King Charles running the firm?
30:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, and clearly not that good, but um, but uh not as good as his mother.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Everyone said the queen, everyone loved the queen.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: Our very first pod was national about national treasures.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, anyway, is a national treasure.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: He's not.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, there are some things about King Charles that are admirable.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: His his attention to the environment, his response to the U.S.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Congress, his way he presents other contrasts.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: We talk about this, and and now, and now his the his um commitment to talk about AI.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: These are pretty all pretty important.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, popularity aside, why can't he control this family?
31:20
SPEAKER_00: What and what is it that the Queen had that he doesn't?
31:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, first of all, um, yes, I would I would totally concede you are correct.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've always kind of liked that sort of Charles.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: He's always he was into organic farming decades before everywhere else caught up with them on that.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: He's been um in favor, you know, really on it with environmental issues.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the short answer to that is um all of the royals are just terrible parents.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: And even the queen was not, they were not good parents.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: The queen and Prince Philip.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, Prince Philip uh forced Prince Charles to go to this horrible boarding school that he, Prince Philip, had gone to um up in Scotland, where he was beaten to a pulp and probably never got, you know, has forgotten it.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh three of the four marriages failed of their children.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Charles, I don't know how good a father he's been.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and not to blame uh Prince Harry's uh sort of fighting his his outbursts on necessarily on uh Charles, you know, Prince Harry has not been one for never explain never complain, never explain.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: He's constantly complaining and constantly trying to explain.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, so he is run afoul of that, of that royal mantra.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: Poor little him, he's got no official job.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, they had to have an interview with Oprah.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: He had to publish his book that um you know gave him$20 million advance.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't have that much sympathy for him.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know who who you play.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, he's a better parent than his father was, and maybe his mother was, you know.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: They ended up in boarding school, she wasn't looking after him, they weren't day students.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think they were day students, they would eat and maybe they were day students, I don't know.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh so take note, parents.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: You who are on the road must have a code that you can live by, and so become yourself because the past is just a goodbye.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Teach your children well, your father's hell did slowly go by.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: These are the words.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Cock for stills Nash, Graham Nash, Graham Nash, be a good parent, guys.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know it was Graham Nash has Graham Nash been a good parent.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: He must have grandchildren, great grandchildren.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Where does that leave us?
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, that leaves us, I guess, looking for more revelations.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: But um, and I don't know if this is a big story in the States, but it my fear, and this is why I wanted to to discuss this on the podcast, is I I really do fear for the future of the of the royal family.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: There are these cracks in that family, and they they are in a way to to to perpetuate this family, they cannot set a foot wrong.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: They really they've got no wiggle room, uh, because it's such an obsolete conceit.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's absurd, this idea of um, you know, just because someone uh what was the expression our friend Hogan Gorman used to have uh the lucky sperm club?
34:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just got nothing to do with smarts, and so they really can't Hogan coined that.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, I I it's first I heard it.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: She likes to use design use that term.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: He used that in a screenplay.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, didn't you?
34:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh I may have done.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: And if uh it did, I was the sperm that won.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: All right.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, enough about sperm.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: I think I don't want to get bogged down in this.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, let's not let's move on.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Let's just move on.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: What does it bode for the future?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
35:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the royal and I think it's real I I'm kind of rooting for Prince William B William because he's he's trying to be a good prince.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: None of them have a sense of humor, which I would like more from.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh although Prince Charles can tell a joke, and I don't know, his speech writer, though he's delivered some pretty good speeches, he's got pretty good timing, he speaks French fluently.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh, he's a smart guy, and uh Prince William is uh gonna be king, uh, as far as we know, maybe in a couple of years, you know, pretty soon.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: And he's got his hands full with um his uh irate uncle and his uh grumbling younger brother.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: It's not that different from any family, any normal, any any family, um, except that this magnifying glass is on them constantly.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: So um uh would are you in favor of the royal family continuing?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I you know what I'm again, I'm from the U.S.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: It all seems preposterous to me.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even it it's it runs counter to American values, um, sustaining something based on tradition without any real value.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, we love money in the U.S.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Where's you know where are the returns on the royal family?
36:18
SPEAKER_00: What what are even the abstract returns?
36:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm you know, I I'm all for abstract returns, but uh no, it's well we sure it's hard to fathom.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: We for men we've had political you know dynasties with the Kennedys and the Bushes, and the bushes, and Trump you know, named his son, you know, Don Jr.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: And his youngest son is called Baron, as you mentioned, Barron.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: That's uh that's a that's an embarrassing name.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh you talk about wanting to introduce an aristocracy into the US, it's just preposterous the way he's painted everything gold in the ballroom.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's more into royalism monarchy in a way than most Americans are, uh, even though he he was an embarrassing presence here at the uh state visit.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm ambivalent about, I guess, the future of the royal family.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: I think I would miss them.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm very into history and uh like kind of like that connection that goes back to the Georges and Hanover and you know the Stuarts and uh the Tudors.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it is it's part of living history, but doesn't mean any of them have anything particular to offer.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh certainly the culture.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: I complain that they they're not good readers, uh, they're not good uh patrons of the arts, the way maybe King Edward VII was.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I don't know.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: We'll see uh how we'll see if this does more damage to the royal family when they least need it.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, since we hang around each other lately while I'm here, we always have we've had the same headquakes.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, is it just the proximity?
37:57
SPEAKER_02: It's a proximity.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: We're sharing the same headquake, but it's you yeah, we both kind of came up with it at the same time.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: Why don't you introduce?
38:05
SPEAKER_02: We were gonna talk about what's our headquake.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Listeners, viewers, where are you on the practice of winking?
38:13
SPEAKER_00: What does winking mean to you?
38:15
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen anyone wink lately who doesn't have a pink eye or you know a mode of dust in their eye?
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Do do you practice winking?
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Is that something that you do?
38:28
SPEAKER_00: I I haven't seen anyone do it.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: I remember I had an uncle who would wink when I was a boy, and um, it kind of made me feel special because he was maybe in the other side of the room and there was a little crowded room, and I was staring because I was six and he'd wink and I feel special.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: But I remember years later, I was in college and I had an instructor who made us sign in.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: And I I mentioned to a friend of mine that I wasn't going to be able to make it to the the the following class, and he said, I'll sign up for you.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, you don't have to.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: He signed you in.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: He signed me in, and I looked over when the instructor talked about the the signup sheet, and the guy gave me a wink, and it felt so weird.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: It it was it just offended.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: Did it feel un unnatural and weird?
39:19
SPEAKER_00: I it was uninvited.
39:21
SPEAKER_02: All right.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Well, my i I have a similar story of the family.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, my my grandfather used to wink, and uh I it was really endearing, but that maybe that was the last generation um that could that could safely wink or could could pull it off, you know, that had the panache of winking.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't remember my father particularly winking.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: I think it was the older generation.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: So the winking has died out.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Is it actually it's interesting to talk about?
39:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember my my father ever winking.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: And is it was it something that men did?
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Did men wink?
39:57
SPEAKER_02: No, uh yeah.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: My mother used to make wink eggs.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: Is that something you're is that something you eat?
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: She would this is how you make a wink egg.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: God, I just remembered this.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: You take a piece of bread, you would tear out a little circle in it, hold it up to your child, and your child would wink.
40:17
unknown: What?
40:17
SPEAKER_02: And then she would put the bread in the pan, fry the bread with the egg in the middle of it.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: So it was like a sort of egg sandwich, put it in one, one, one slice.
40:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a wink egg.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: She called it a wink egg.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: Her mother, her mother must have taught her that in the 1930s.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the wink egg.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: And I've yet to do that.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: My I've got to do a wink egg with my with my children before they get too old.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: It actually sounds appetizing.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a wink egg.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: You never heard of a wink egg?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we've called it something else.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Wasn't was it a Pittsburgh egg that went or egg in the hole or something like that?
40:52
SPEAKER_00: But did it involve a wink?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: But no, I your mother, she's maybe she in it, she's an innovator, possibly.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh but yeah, I think winking was once considered debonair or suave.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're trying to think of movies where we'd seen famous Cary Grant ever.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure Carrie Grant winked in some movie.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: Um I can't think of the famous, the famous oh yes, all right.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: The sting.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, that was a that wasn't a wink, that was like a hand gesture.
41:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
41:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what is famous wink?
41:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: If anyone has ideas about winking, please let us know.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: This is this is a critical question.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Did you wink?
41:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we want comments.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: Did you did your do you wink?
41:33
SPEAKER_02: Did your any of your parents wink at you?
41:35
SPEAKER_02: Did your grandparents wink at you?
41:37
SPEAKER_02: Where for wink?
41:40
SPEAKER_00: Wither wink.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: Wither wink.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Wither for wither wink.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: All right.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's this week uh for Boomer Has It.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm JB Miller in Dorset, England.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jim Jelamis in Dorset, England with Harry Potter in the cabinet behind us.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Cupboard, sorry.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, bye.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Bye.