Latest / The Property Unleashed Podcast / When Tenants Go Bad: Court Evictions, Anti-Social Behavior, and Joint Tenancy Issues

Transcript

When Tenants Go Bad: Court Evictions, Anti-Social Behavior, and Joint Tenancy Issues · The Property Unleashed Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the renter's right bill and, of course, the things you need to be aware of and how to make sure that you cover yourself as a property investor.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Property Unleashed with me, your host, mark Fitzgerald.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: So I have a special episode for you here today because we have the renter's right bill just around the corner.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Legislations are changing all the time, but I like to keep my finger on the pulse, and it's all about being the property professional for our areas.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: So in today's episode, I'm going to share with you actually a recording that we do, which are sessions that feature now in our new platform called Education to Action, eta, and it's all about property education, taking that knowledge and then putting it into action, because far too many people don't get out there, don't take the action or don't get the results that they have.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: So I've put this community together with my power team of like-minded individuals that are on call, on standby, basically to answer the community's questions as and when they have them, and then each week we have live sessions making sure that you are becoming the property professional of your area.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: So this is a little I don't know sneak peek behind the curtains for you to get some more information.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Now, the reason I'm sharing this with you, listening to my podcast, is because these are things that we need to know, so we've got to get it out there and we've got to share it with everybody.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I've got Anthony and Alison that joined me on this live session and they do this every month, every month in the community.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: They go live, they answer questions for the people in the community and they also share their knowledge and everything that's happening.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: We have mortgage experts, we have architects, we have refurbishment experts, we have serviced accommodation, hmos, mindset, creative strategies you name it.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: We've built it into this amazing platform.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: If you want to find out more about Education to Action and see if it can help you get your property investing results, then do click on the link in the description or wherever you're listening to this, or just check out educationtoactioncom and you will be able to have a little look for yourself.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: This is a new community that is ever growing.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: We've got a lot of members in there now and we're all there striving to help each other.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I'm leading this up and I'm loving every minute of it.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So if you're struggling at the moment, then fear not, because you do not have to spend lots and lots of money to come and join us here.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: It's a simple little monthly subscription and you can come and go as you please.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So on with the episode and enjoy finding out more about the renter's right bill.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So what are we going to be covering this month?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to go through a market update, we're going to talk more about the renter's right bill and then after that, we're going to go through some of the challenges that Alison and Antony have faced in their lettings business.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: They are serial entrepreneurs.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: They've been investing in property for over 20 years now.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: They don't just have a lettings business.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: They also have other businesses as well, which I can tell you more about.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: But they are really nice people.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: They're great people.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: It's my absolute pleasure to have them as part of this community and to be able to share their knowledge and their wisdom with us.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: So if you do have any questions, do feel free to put them in the chat box.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: If you do want to ask any questions, we will save that till the end, but you can come on and you can talk to them, or you can just put the questions in the chat box and I'll read them, but please do let me know, don't just come off of mute, because obviously we're just trying to keep the recording as clear as possible.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, with the market update and everything, I'll hand it over to you guys.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I'll send it over to you.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks, mark.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so a little bit of an update on the renter's rights bill.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: So for those of you that are new to property and haven't perhaps heard of it, this is the massive piece of legislation that's currently going through Parliament at the moment.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: This is the massive piece of legislation that's currently going through Parliament at the moment.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: It's the biggest shake up of the private rental sector that we've had in decades.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: So lots and lots of changes.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Not going to go through them all today, but we have lots of content that we can put some links into, kind of the community and you can have a look at.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: But really just wanted to give a bit of an update on the progress you can have a look at, but really just wanted to give a bit of an update on the progress because all of the updates up until now were saying it was coming in some in the summer.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: It's taken far too long, but yeah so we're yeah the summer.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: So what you?
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: count as the summer.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: So the summer, I would say we are now in the summer.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Um, at the moment it's in the house of Lords.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: We've just had the stage where all of the amendments are tabled.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: So hundreds and hundreds of amendments are put forward.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Very few of these will probably come to fruition, unfortunately.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: There's some interesting ones, some ones that we would love to come in, but I'm pretty certain they probably won't.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: And now we're at the stage where they're reviewing that, they're kind of scrutinizing it and and discussing those changes.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: So they've just had a session on the 7th of july where they've done that and there's another one scheduled for the 15th of july.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Um, so once we're through that stage, there's a final reading in the House of Commons and then it passes through to Royal Assent, which I've just looked at.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Royal Assent tends to take well, there's no set timescales on that, but it says that it usually goes through within a few days of clearing the parliamentary stages.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: So I think, bearing in mind the summer recess is the 22nd of July, I think it's probably not going to go through before how long do they have off?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: typically the summer holidays oh, yeah, like the summer school holidays.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: They have like six weeks off yeah, so back on in parliament then on the 1st of September.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: So I think most of the industry experts are now saying October time when we're going to see this, but I think it will be this year.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I say that I'm almost certain it will be this year.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: But parents say we'll see.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, and when it does come in, it's not a case of right.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: This bill has passed.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Everything that's proposed or everything that's in it is coming in straight away from day one and there's going to be certain elements that are probably going to take I don't know, ages to sorts that, things like the landlord database and landlord ombudsman.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: They've got to put all of that in place so that's not going to happen overnight and certain things they have said will come in straight away, such as the banning of the section 21 notice, which is your two months no fault eviction notice, and I know that it's been a bit of backwards and forwards whether that's going to be if, if you've already issued that notice, whether that's going to be put to a stop on, or whether it's just you're stopped and prevented from issuing any notice from that day.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: So that's still up in the air.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: And I think the latest I read was that if you've put a section 21 notice in now and you're still going through the stages, kind of when this bill passes, you can complete it or it can go to court.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: If it's thrown out of court, you're not, you can't do it again.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: That's what I've read.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: So if you're going through that process.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Obviously I would get it done now get everything being proactive.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Get things done now, be proactive and prepare for what's coming but yeah, so that's kind of the renter's rights.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: But, like I say, there's there's so much to it.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: If you're not familiar with everything or not up to speed with it, have a look online.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: There's lots of information on it, um, but we ourselves have published quite a lot of kind of webinars and videos on it, um, and it hasn't changed that much since we were first doing this um, unfortunately on some elements.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: But yeah, so, yeah, I think now we're obviously going to move on and kind of cover some of the things in our lettings business, some of the challenges that we've kind of faced in the last few weeks.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Hopefully you're not facing similar challenges, but if you ever do, I think it gives a good idea of how we go through things, what sort of processes we go through and also talking about the renter's rights bill in how that's going to change things and how probably going to make a little bit more work for us all, um in our processes so good, so mark back over to you yeah, no, that's brilliant.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I'm just touching on that note.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Did I hear some update with the student contracts, uh, with students with the renters right?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Because obviously with the um short, short tenancy agreements they were on about that they students might be exempt from the new new rules that are coming in?
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I thought I saw from NRLA that something had been passed or gone through.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: So the changes, wasn't it?
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: yeah, so I know that was it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: One of the biggest changes is that the fixed term tenancy we lose in that fixed term tenancy and everything's going to become a periodic contract where tenants can give notice two months notice from day one of their contract if they wish, and there is no exemption for students at the moment.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: As I understand it in the bill that's proposed.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: But I think this is where there will be amendments.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: I think quite a lot of amendments have been tabled.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I think the information that I've read recently is that purpose-built accommodation for students is potentially going to have some sort of exemption from this, but I believe that private landlords are not.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: But I again, all of the everything's still being worked out um the intricacies of it as well, isn't it, in fact?
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: of what proofs you would need all the different things you'd like, for example, for council tax?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: At the moment, you know student, you know status certificates, all these different things for the council tax side of things.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's all up in the air and the fact of that and this is the greatest thing about it all it's great that you can come along and say, right, this is what we're going to propose.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But it's the detail, the finer detail what if this and what if that, and what's going to happen from this and it still needs to be ironed out, I think yeah, I think.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: I mean I think it was widely agreed that their current proposal is just not going to work for students.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: And in Coventry, where we were based, there's lots of purposeful accommodation.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I don't mean there's still not enough to cover everything, but there is a good proportion.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: But I know other university cities don't have that purpose built at the moment so rely heavily on the kind of private landlord sector.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: So fingers crossed they do some private landlords, not just the big blocks yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And another quick question because I know you guys have got, obviously, your lettings business.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: You've got lots of units on there and I I still find the whole thing with the um.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: You know the ast contracts were put in place so that people knew that if they had a 12-month contract they had a 12-month contract.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: They didn't have to worry about, you know, getting it, getting a well evicted.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I know you can get evicted at any time, but from your guys perspective and obviously you see the market, you see new tenancies all the time what has it been taken by actual tenants?
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: because the tenants I've spoken to and stuff has just said I don't really see the point in it I think most you know I guess it's different tenancy types in terms of your families they want that security.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: So, for me, most of the time when you're talking to family tenants, they want to stay long term, especially if they've got kids in schools in the local area.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: They want that security, um, which they will have because you've got to have a reason to evict.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: You can't, you know, just go ahead and do it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: But I think that fixed term, I think it's nice to know.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely for the next 12 months.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely here, um, in terms of we do, we do deal with a lot of hmos.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: So, on, room by room, let's, we do get quite a few tenants that they just want like a couple of months or they want shorter term contracts.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Our minimum at the moment is six months.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: That we deal with um in terms of the landlord paying our fees to get it all set up and get it in there.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: It's just not worth, while doing anything less um so yeah, so I think a lot of it is going to be about talking to your, talking to your prospective tenants and really understanding what they want.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Um, hopefully most will be up front and if they want a short contract, you'll know that and that works for some people.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Some people are happy to to kind of just have that short-term um flow.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: From our side of things.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: That's not really what we want to be doing.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: There's another consideration.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: We're in article four, city as well, and this is where the whole conundrum of um, change of use, happens.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So, for example, because we know in a lot of case, in particular for last year, students and also bank of mom and dad who tend to fund their children's accommodation, their tenants will say, well, if we've got flexibility, I'm going to move out the end of may, then I don't need to pay rent for june, july, august.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: But if you've got a property, that's then as a c4 hmo and all of a sudden you're then going to, for example, do service accommodation, you're changing the use and all of a sudden with article 4, which means that you can, you've got usage of that law, development certificate, whatever it may well be as a hmo, you're then changing the use.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Your hands are very much tied as a landlord.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So again, there's other areas that some sort of clarity from the renter's rights bill and how that will kind of suss its way through.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: But it's another, it's another hurdle that different landlords need to consider.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Some landlords say, well, I'll just do what I like with it, no one will know, no one will find it.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: It's like no.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Or I'll just do a short-term contract and I say, okay, that's great if you've got tenants that are arriving in September, but what happens if they don't want to leave?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, A number of considerations that need to be happening on that side of things.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: As far as fixed terms are concerned, Nice, and just before we move on.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: one more question from me is how are you guys actually finding the rental market at the moment?
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: It's been very up and down this year.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: We're getting quite a lot of landlords that have been in the market a while and for one reason or another, are looking to sell.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: So we're getting quite a lot of properties coming onto the market for sales.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: That's quite buoyant at the moment, not necessarily selling because of the renters rights bill.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: That's perhaps been kind of a factor in it um, so we're seeing that a lot more.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Um, in terms of rental prices, they keep going up.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: I think they've slowed a little bit, but the last few years, um, they've been rocketing.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I think we're starting to see it slow a little bit, which probably to be expected.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Rents are going up and up and up, which is great, yeah, but the positive voids are lower than they've ever been.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: In a lot of cases rents are higher than they've ever been, but for us as an agency there's not so many people moving.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So and this is what we speak with a number of agents in the city.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So you know, we look at the numbers of the number of lets that are happening and different markets are going to be different.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Of course there's still going to be families are going to be different.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Of course there's still going to be families that are going to be moving.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: But in a lot of cases, if you're living in a property where you're paying X amount of rent, a landlord will say, well, look realistically, if I let this out again, it would be this much, but if you stay on, I'll let you have it for slightly less.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And tenants say, well, I might as well stay, because if I go I'm going to end up paying more.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Hence the whole knock-on effect of voids are lower, rents are higher, but not so many people moving.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: That's one thing we've seen Now typically every year.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I know we look at stats the last couple of years of the number of lets that are happening and it's been pretty steady.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: It's been growing and growing, which has been great.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: But this year the amount of people that have been moving I would probably say is about 25% less of what we've experienced in comparison to previous years.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: But void to lower landlords are delighted higher and so obviously not not as many people moving, which is, yeah, a positive on that side of things, if that's what you're looking for stability of tenancies.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: So now brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: So what, uh?
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: The next section that we're going to move into now is challenges that you faced, uh, so to speak, on a monthly basis throughout your business, just to really share with everybody.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: You know sort of processes, how to get around things, because obviously with when you're letting properties and you have tenants and things, sometimes they stop paying.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: You know you can have the best tenant we all know this at the beginning, from day one and three months down the line.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden they become a nightmare and things.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: But I think a lot of the time, particularly landlords can bury their head in the sands a bit.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I know I did early on.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I used to try and think, oh, we'll get it sorted.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You know broken promises, all of those sorts of things.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: But of course you guys face you know you do court evictions for arrears, antisocial behavior, all sorts of different things.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: So I think to actually hear about the process and how you guys operate, because obviously it's having a professional that that does these sorts of things for you um, it's great and you put three sort of challenges down that you want to, you know, talk about uh this month, which is great.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: So over to you, anthony for the first one, which is court evictions for arrears yes, um, a lot of people, I'm sure.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: If we went to any sort of event, how many people have ever been to court?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And I go, oh gosh, no, of course it's daunting.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I mean I've probably been 10, 15 times since I've been in the industry.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: But the key thing with anything in the fact of that, if I go back to the start of the story here, a particular tenant quite recently moved into the property.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You do your right to rent checks, do your credit checks, everything is all as it should be.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And for this particular landlord, he did something called rent guarantee and legal protection.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: That's an optional you know we offer for our landlords.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It's not obligatory, but if you want to have it in place and it's costing them, I think three percent plus matter their monthly rent, which is a minimal amount in the end, to have this protection in what could happen.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: But there's always a way with insurance.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Isn't there in some way the fact that you never want to claim on it and you never claim on it and you've paid all this money out for it?
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: But in this particular case and a number of other cases it's been very, very useful.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: So the key thing is, with anything with lettings, as you know, in property management, what you do at the start will make sure that you can get the end of the story.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: You want to be a happily ever after story at the end of it.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: So this particular all those checks are done, tenants moved in, was employed.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, shortly down the line, two months later, all of a sudden problems with the rental payments.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Now continually contacting the tenants and this is what's really important and I mean I was discussing this earlier is keeping in contact with that tenant and this is what was you know puzzling about.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they put their head in the sand, as I'm sure we all know tenants you can't contact them.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: They'll promise something by an email or a text and it just doesn't happen, and things were happening by that.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Now, during this process, what's really really important is maintain that contact whilst also not being classed as harassment.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: That balance is really really important with this.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, if you can have a process making sure that the tenant is regularly contacted, telling them what their rent is, how much they need to pay, what their reference number, what the bank details is, so what you're doing is you're building up your proofs that this tenant can't say they didn't know, they weren't sure, they weren't sure when to pay all these different things, and constantly.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: We've got our client account software, payprop, which automatically tells them each and every month.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: There's also the facility there to do any tracing if they haven't paid their rent.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So this is where we've got to with these tenants.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Haven't paid their rent.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: So this is where we've got to with these tenants.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, things haven't happened.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Now, with regards to the rent guarantee and legal cover, you have to notify the company within 30 days of the rent being in arrears.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: So it can't go into one month's arrears, if you know what I mean.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: One month's arrears or more than one month's arrears.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Otherwise that month's arrears you can't claim back now with the rent guarantee insurance.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You have an excess of one month's rent, which typically is recovered with your deposit.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: So on the 29th day of the person being in arrears due, on the first 29th of the month, we've then made a claim to the insurance company and they've then got in contact with the tenant to say, right, you know, these are your arrears, we need these to get these things resolved.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: And they've started communication with the tenant and tenants then offered to do payment plans.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: You know we've had payment plans offered to us.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Didn't happen, didn't happen.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: All these different things, all these different promises.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: But in addition to that, when it's coming from a solicitor, almost it's going to have a little bit more bunch, if you want to put it that way, rather than just coming from us or coming from a landlord, if it's coming from that oh gosh a legal representative, it's going to have a bit more you'd hope.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, this didn't quite have the same exit.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: So what's then happened is they've issued.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: When it got to the point of two months in arrears.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: The tenant then got received a section eight notice the fact, which is obviously the mandatory grounds and what's really really important in the fact of that, for this insurance they will have had to have done proofing of all the documentation you provided.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Everything's been done as it should be so that when they then have to if they have to go to court or make a claim that they've got all the information they needed to make a solid case against the tenant.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Um, so been through all these processes.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, tenant was promising and even the puzzling thing was um two or three days before the court hearing, because it's then obviously you're not paid your rent.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: You need to then apply to court to get possession back of their property.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Two or three days they were still in contact.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: The tenant was offering payment plans.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: It was a case of people not offering.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Over the course of time, he offered about four or five different payment plans, varying amounts.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: None of them ever came to any fruition nothing was ever paid and if you obviously accept, it's great.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, if you make these payments, it's great, but obviously we'll have to put it to the landlord and the decision will be made by the landlord.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: But we knew what was going to happen, but it obviously got to.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Then the court hearing the day they'd be caught hearing.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Now people chuckle at this one.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: They say you know, you've provided all the information already.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: They've got everything.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Everything's there, it's proofed.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: All you need to worry about is taking the rental statement with you for the day that the hearing is.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: So they've got a live update of what the exact arrears are that day.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: However, I know I provided it all to them, but I'll still print off everything that I was.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: You know that I provided them with, just in case they need it tenancy agreements, the, the rears chasing, the emails, the you know the deposits, all these different things.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: So then when you go to court um, country, county court, community court is where we go to um, they go in there.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: You've got to do your security check.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: You've not got anything on you that you need to have you shouldn't have with you.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: You then walk through a seating area where you'll see the.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: You know the defendants as such, if you want to call it that, or the tenants that are there for the hearings.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: You then go through and check in at the desk and, because the landlord had legal cover, there was a legal representative from the rent guarantee organisation that was there to represent the landlord.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Now, me going there is only as a witness.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I'm only there to support.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I've not got any legal powers as such and I'm not representing the landlord.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: It's either the landlord or the legal representative that can be there on their behalf.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So, obviously, then, I've had a little chat with them.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Now, with regards to the tenant that goes to court, in some cases they haven't turned up in the past, but this tenant had arrived and every tenant gets free legal aid.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: So, basically and the gentleman I've seen him a couple of times now his job is to pick at everything that we have provided as far as the paperwork's concerned, to make sure that he's correct and everything is as it should be, and to dig at everything that could be angled at to try and get the case thrown out.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Now, one thing I will say obviously we were told to be there for 2pm.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: If it is that the legal aid has been with somebody else, you're going to have to wait until they've seen your tenant, until you will get called into court, no matter what order you're in, unfortunately you're going to be sat there.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: It's been occasional sat there for two or three hours waiting to to go through.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: So, um, we've then gone through into the court uh room.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Obviously the judge is there and is stating you know what's the situation?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: What are you looking for?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: What are the grounds on which you're looking to get back possession?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Now, there are certain grounds that are in place which are mandatory, which is, for example, this case.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: They were over two months in arrears and in some cases in the past, some tenants have tried to pay a little bit off to reduce the arrears to just below the two months, and that will mean then you've got, when you go to court and make the application for the Section 8, you've got your mandatory grounds and you've got your discretionary grounds, and this is where they're in arrears or they've been late in payment.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: But the mandatory is the two months, which means they, as long as everything correct, you'll get your possession back.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So when you go to court, should it be that it dips below that two months, the magistrate can still, the judge can still grant you possession on the discretionary grounds, not the mandatory now, because this tenant was over two months.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: We've got no worries on that side of things.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And when we then sat down in court, the legal aid initially before the hearing was yep, everything's okay, but we're going to go through the process, got into court.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: He then says, right, well, my tenant says that they didn't receive their section 8 notice.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I sat there.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's a new one I was like how are we going to handle this?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: um, obviously, the legal aid knew exactly what was going to happen.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Um, now, because the section 8 was issued by the solicitor acting on behalf of the rent guarantee company, there was a certificate of service signed for by the solicitor that issued the notice.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Now, obviously, um, the judge, I sat there and said okay, I can take on the fact that you may not have received that, but I can see here that a a, you know, a um qualified solicitor has issued this and I've got a certificate of service.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm pretty assured that they would not put their career on the line.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: They've falsely issued something, or haven't.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, um, and I'm really glad the judge was like he was he says well, okay, fair enough, it may well be you didn't receive it.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not questioning whether that be the case.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: However, you will have then received a notification of a court hearing, which you did receive, says yes.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So, with this in mind, you will have then received a notification of a court hearing, which you did receive, says yes.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: So, with this in mind, you will have had sufficient time to resolve matters, or to try and resolve matters as far as the situation is concerned.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Is that okay?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: So that was one angle.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And so, on this basis, and on the basis of the fact of all the evidence you provided, of the arrears chasing the court you know the constant emails and communication, the payment plans that you haven't kept to the case was built up against the tenant.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: This is unwilling to grant possession to the landlord.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: So we achieved that bit.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: The next hurdle got thrown in was, um, the fact of that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Well, uh, obviously I'm going I'm in hard times at the moment which he just told us.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: He got a new job so he had to do a payment plan.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Then, all of a sudden, he was asking for the fact of that.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Oh no, what?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: What's the phrase?
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: in the mental health issues they claimed.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And then hardship hardship, that's the word I was looking for.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Um, there's hardship.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: We want to claim on hardship here.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: We're not going to be able to move out because typically it's two weeks they give for the tenants to resolve matters.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: But I'm asking for hardship and the judge was like OK, I can see why, but you've had X amount of months to resolve matters and you haven't matters and you haven't.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Now I will state something to you which is a fact.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Now, in the fact of that, should it be in two weeks when they come to carry out the eviction of your property, you aren't ready to vacate, the landlord can't force you to leave, and if you don't leave they will have to get bailiffs.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: And if they have to get bailiffs, that will be potentially another they will have to get bailiffs.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: And if they have to get bailiffs, that will be potentially another four to six weeks that you'll have in the property.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I was just like, why are you telling him that?
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: But it is a fact and I'm pretty certain he will have known these facts anyway.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: So he says look, I'm going to give it two weeks.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: If you don't leave in two weeks, then obviously then we go down that route.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: That's the process we'll go through.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So got the possession order.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Fantastic, two weeks for the tenant to vacate.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Um, obviously.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: We've then written to the tenant saying here's the possession order, here's your exit inspection notice.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: According to the court hearing, we will be at the property at this point.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Now what then happened?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Between um, the hearing and the date at which was two weeks later, the tenant got in touch and said listen, I've accommodation, but I can't move until such and such a point.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Now the power is still with the tenant.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: That's the key thing in this situation.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: And we've said to the landlord look, in any situations like this, we always recommend that you give that little bit of leeway.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: And the only way it did a few days it was, wasn't it, it wasn't a few days.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a few weeks or anything.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: No, a little bit, a couple of days extra, because I don't think it will.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: But whatever happens, should it be, it goes back and it goes back in front of a judge, magistrate.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: You will have been seen as giving that bit of flexibility and it will be seen as very positive you doing that, um, because then if we have to go to bailiffs, you have to go to bailiffs.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: But all you've done the realist, you've only lost a couple of days.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing, because he had the rent guarantee, the rent was covered.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Um so, um, give the extra couple of days and the tenant vacated as he said he was going to do so.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: A positive turnout.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: The tenant had his rent covered and then, as far as following the vacation of the vacating of the room, um, the landlord with the rent guarantee cover has 75 percent of his rent covered until the room is re-let.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Um, I think it's three months.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I think they've got to vacate three months, three months so that gives you a chance to get the room sorted and also to, obviously, get the room re-let again.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: So, yes, there's a cost.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to sell this, but this is a solution this particular landlord had If it wasn't a case of the tenant having the rent guarantee.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: We do provide this service as well.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Obviously, there's fees for doing it, but the landlord would have needed to be there for the hearing because obviously he's the person that's making the claim himself.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Um, and then as far as the arrears are concerned, unfortunately the landlord's arrears, as far as the cost of the court hearing, the cost of the bailiffs, they're all the landlord's cost.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: So that's that story.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: What questions have you got?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: daunting as it was, but no, it all, it all turned out well no, I think I know it's brilliant and succinctly put as well, because it is what a lot of people fear.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: You know I've come close.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I haven't actually taken anybody to court.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: They left in the end, but it was getting to that point and you know the cost that was involved in everything had already been paid out.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: But luckily we didn't have to go any further because obviously there is the opportunity that if you haven't got everything right which is why it's very, very important to know that you're issuing things, you're getting things time stamped, dated, photographic evidence wherever you can and everything as well but it's just making sure that you set yourself up for success.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Of course, I think the rent insurance is going to be a big thing now.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I think that really is.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I've spoken to a few brokers as well and initially it was a lot more for buy-to-lets but they do it for HMOs and also the market's really opening up because there's going to be a real need for it isn't there, I think, with the new renter's right bill and thing coming in.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But I haven't really got any questions there because you sort of covered everything.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And how crazy it is as well, because when a tenant goes and asks for advice.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: It does do my head in that you know the courts or whatever they have to tell them the right thing to do, but it's almost telling them this is the way that you can basically screw the system over by by just staying there and they can't do anything until they, until they can.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: But again, it's that next stage as well.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: And how many sort of?
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: How many of these have you had that have actually gone to to need bailiffs going in?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: oh, good question um of getting the possession orders back.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I'd probably say only a couple, I think four or five over the years we've been doing this 15 years now.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I'll probably say four or five, um.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: And I'll give you two other examples of different occurrences that have happened in court as well.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: There's one occasion where the tenant um provided proof that they had sufficient income to cover a payment plan and the magistrate, the judge, was okay, I'm not going to kick you out, you keep to that payment plan.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: They left a month later, but it was one of those that said there was only one occasion that's happened.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: There was another occasion, which, um?
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: The paperwork we got signed was signature paperwork.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Now, what we do is, as far as our moving paperwork, we have a cover letter which gives everything that we've provided to the tenant, and they then sign the back to say yes, I've received all this documentation.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Now, um, with regards to the um how to rent guide for this particular tenant um, they said they hadn't received it and the legal aid said right, well, they hadn't received the um, the, what's it called?
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: The, the how?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: to rent guide and I was like but you signed a piece of paper here to say that you received it, but the the judge was still boating on the side of the um, the tenant and I was like, well, what else do you need me to prove here?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I don't understand.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: And then they said, right, well, we need to go and convene for five minutes.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: So then the legal aid and the tenant went out and they then came back in a couple of minutes later says, well, we're going to have, we're going to withdraw that claim.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Now, um, because of the fact of that, you have the just like, what angle are you trying to find?
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, again, the possession claim got got bought in there.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Another thing that did occur which I will emphasize to you is is another occurrence which I was unaware of and this is learning many, many years ago now, when this first happened, when we were first representing our landlords or working with our landlords to get possession, was that there was a pre-possession um hearing, basically.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: So all the documentation with me and the landlord sat down, got all the documentation together, put it off to the courts.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: What they're then doing is they were having a pre-hearing hearing, which was okay.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: So I thought to myself well, what I'll do is I'll drive over there, over in nunitum, and I'll go to the court and I'll represent the landlords, just so.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: You just want to make sure you've got everything that you need, which I wasn't representing the landlord, I was just making sure that I'm the letting agency.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I was making sure you've got everything you need no one else was in the court, just me and the judge.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: And he says, well, are you legally qualified?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I says no, I'm a letting agent.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: He says you shouldn't be here if you're not the landlord or you're not legally qualified.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And I really I could actually you know, I don't bother to prosecute, but I could take action again.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, all I'm doing is making sure you've got all the documentation.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was a lesson learned.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: That was very much in the past.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to help make sure this goes through, as it should have done.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I've got everything.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: He says yes, I've got everything.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: I need it's all good.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: All good, no problem.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: That was that.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: I was like yes, there's another thing, that things.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: But don't be scared of it.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: In the end, if your paperwork's as hot as it should be and everything's on the button, and you've got all the proofs.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: You need to prove and everything's been done correctly.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Set yourself up for success, as we like to say at the very, very beginning.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Um so, uh, over to ali.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Now you've got anti-social behavior with a tenant.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, I just want to do a disclaimer now.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: We do have nice, lovely paying tenants, and most are like that.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: You only hear about the mumbles and the grumbles, don't you?
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: We'll do one on the nice tenants next, absolutely.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I think the hot weather has brought out some of the crazies.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: So we had a call we manage quite a lot of HMOs and we had a call from a concerned neighbour not immediate neighbour living in the vicinity of one of our HMOs, and this is about 10.30 in the morning and she was reporting that there was two gentlemen in the garden of the property that we manage.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Um, she said that she wasn't sure whether they lived there or not, but they were incredibly drunk and being very noisy and they were squaring up to one another and it didn't look too friendly.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: They look as if they were about to have a fight.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: So so you got the description.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: Um, we were able to eliminate that one of them definitely didn't live at the property from the description and the other one we had a good idea of who it was.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Um, a couple of things that weren't quite matching.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: So we gave a few calls around to other housemates in the in the property and we were basically we were able to work out which tenant it was.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: And then we had had an issue about six months ago it was kind of a mental health related issue with this particular tenant.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: So we took a decision on this instance to phone 101, phone the police, not the emergency, but phone it in for the police.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: We got a crime reference number.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: So we've got that for our system and I didn't do a lot.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I took down the details a lot.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: I took that I was expecting.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, we'll meet you there, nope?
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Well, what you need to do need you and somebody else to go there now.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah so see then, me and Anne kind of all geared up and go out and, um, just find out what was going on.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Um, meanwhile, we'd also had our cleaning team at the property, coincidentally, that morning, and they had phoned to say that they hadn't got a great feeling in there.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: They felt a little bit intimidated.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: No, real nothing had really happened.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: They just felt like they were being followed around and asked some silly questions.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: They just felt they kind of retreated and left the property.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: So they didn't do their job that day because of of these same and their description matched what the neighbors did.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: So me and Anthony went off out, so by this time it was probably about half 11, wasn't it?
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Half 11 in the morning got there and we found two guys that matched the description, one of them not the tenant, and very much seemed to be a friend of the tenant comforting him.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: There wasn't it.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he seemed to.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: I think he was trying to talk him down um.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: He didn't seem intoxicated, but it's safe to say, the other guy quite a well-built guy.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: He'd not just had a couple of beers, he was steaming, he was very, very drunk.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Um so then, trying to reason, I mean it was really just for us to go out check that nobody was being beat up, or injured.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: It was very calm when we got there.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: It was just obviously somebody that had a few drinks, or more than a few, and was quite loud Because it was summer, people's windows are open, doors are open.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: He was just causing a bit of a, or he had to be.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: It wasn't when we were there, um, so we just had a chat with him yeah, they were just having a nice calm chat, just like two mates having a chat when we arrived, and obviously we then spoken with the, the tenant, and yeah, we had.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: We had a.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Well, we tried to have a conversation with the tenant.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that easy, it was more of a firm consideration, I think, was the way that it was um and he was like, oh, I'll be fine later on and yeah yeah so I don't.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the other guy that was there, there wasn't a fight going on.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: I think that was our biggest concern, so we've kind of left it obviously give advice to them that they need to keep.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: There's another tenant there as well, we spoke to and he was like there's nothing wrong with him, it's fine, so yeah so.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: So we've kind of left it there for the time being.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Obviously we've we've had communications after the day, because on the day I'm not sure much of it was going in.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Um, but in terms of this I wanted to just go through this because of the renter's rights bill, I think there's going to be challenges in the way we're dealing with antisocial behavior.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: So current process, my advice would be anything like this where you've got anti-social behavior, there is grounds in the section 8 currently to go to court.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: But it's very much.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: It can get complex.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: So my advice would be just serve a section 21 notice, which is a no fault eviction and there is a reason why you're evicting.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: But you don't need to go into that.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: As long as everything's set up, you'll get back your possession.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: That tenant will be gone.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: We're going to lose that the renter's rights bill.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: So what we're working with on the renter's rights bill is we've got a mandatory ground and a discretionary ground for anti-social behavior.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: So you can go to court, apply to court straight away.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: You don't have to give any notice for antisocial behaviour, which is a good thing.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: But the mandatory ground is they have to be criminally convicted of antisocial behaviour or something similar to that.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: So, in reality, the sort of incident that we went out to it's opinions.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And this is the thing with if you went to court for arrears and they had a discretionary ground, different things, it can be argued.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: This is the thing.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And they said do you want opinions?
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: And well, I didn't do that and I did this.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've never gone to court on antisocial behaviour grounds or anything like that, so I think it's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: But based on this incident, we had a phone call from a neighbour who didn't want to leave a name, didn't want to leave any contact information, didn't want to report anything to 101, weren't prepared to email us, so anything's in writing.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: So really we didn't have anything other than I can say well, she phoned me, it's like evidence.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: It's almost information to have in your pocket if you need it in the future Kind of you have to build a case up against a tenant in the future.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: It's not something you can officially use, but it will complement other stuff potentially you could use against the tenant if you were trying to get possession back.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: But it's, it's not something you can.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, unless there's an official document.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: As far, as that.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: So I think it's anything like this where you've got a problem tenant I think it's just recorded.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, this guy, he wasn't really causing any harm he's kind of, he was just being quite loud because he was um, none of the other.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: We never had any reports from any of the other housemates, nothing in writing.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, our cleaners obviously have reported back as well, so we've got something in writing from them.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: But in terms of going to court, that wouldn't be it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty certain that's not going to be enough.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Um, you're going to have to have probably quite extreme reports, or you know a good yeah please reference numbers and all sorts.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so, which is why I was saying, one of the reasons we phoned 101 just to get that log, just to get that reference number.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: So it might be something going forward you feel I'm not saying like any kind of little, like someone's making a little bit of noise, call them um, but just to have that record and it's trying to get all of those reports that you receive in writing.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: It's tricky but again, communication with that tenant, because your best bet is probably gonna be to discuss it with them and work out an amicable solution where they willingly vacate the property when sober.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, don't try and have that conversation with someone that's drunk, um, but yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: It's just something in terms of your processes going forward under the renters rights bill, anything like this.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: You need to keep really good kind of records of every communication that you have see if you're sending out warning letters or warning emails about behavior, um, but you need everything documented, lots of reports then proof.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: You delivered it, photo, date, stamp photos.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Email it as well.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: It's going to that nth degree that nothing can be argued.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Think to yourself what?
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: How could they argue it?
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: That's the way to do it yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: well, it's interesting.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So, in theory then, if he'd have had a scrap, maybe he had a scrap with another tenant, but nobody in the house wanted to push charges.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Uh, the people that actually were involved in the incident just said oh, you know, we just drunk too much.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't have any grounds then, with the new renters right bill, to be able to say well, hold on a minute, you instigated it.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: You were obviously defending yourself, but because neither of you want to press charges or anything, yeah, I mean yeah, you've got your discretionary ground, which I mean under that.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: it was something like if you're causing a nuisance to other tenants, um the landlord, anyone working kind of in an agent management role, um name and properties, but it's definition of nuisance isn't it, yeah, the the yeah it'd have to be.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: You know, and it can't just be, because often you get it in house shares where you get one tenant moaning about that tenant and that tenant's moaning about that tenant, and then it's more of a clash one angle you could take with it, though I mean, in some cases people may not be familiar with what a section 8 notice is and if they get a legal notice through the post it could scare the watsits out of them.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: So that's one angle you could try you issue it and see what impact it has on discretionary grounds.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: That's one angle that I know we've taken in the past and trying to scare people not to do it again.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: That's one angle you could try and take, but unfortunately your hands are very tied on what you can and can't do unless there's an official documented proof of what's happened that's.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: That's what we've done.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Realistically is we've always sent the official documentation out with the hope that it just does the job and most of the time, like you say, it does they just disappear, or you know what I mean that they get back to you.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: They say I'm looking for somewhere else.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Now I'll be out of here within you know x amount of weeks and things one angle we also try and do, if possible, is if, um, you are giving notice to a tenant to make an exception 21, that the reason you're giving admittedly it's a no-fault eviction there's.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: No, you don't have to give a reason.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: But tenants will ask well, why are you doing this?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: It's completely separate to what's happened and did refer it to be some of the landlord wants to do a refurbishment on the or something like that, because what you're doing is you're you're putting out the flame of something that could be of conflict there, the landlord, and then you then put in nearer the time.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Just want to confirm you're going to be moving out as long as you're not on your fixed term, you can move out at any point, giving a month's notice during that two-month period.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Just want to confirm you're moving out and the date because the landlord booked a contractor.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm trying to say.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: You're taking the whole focus on potentially a reason why I'm putting on something else, but that'd be very irrelevant because you're losing section 21 soon last you can.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, time potentially, so yeah I'd say, if you've got anyone that you feel that it's not right for your property right now, you've still got that section 21 notice that you can issue yes, um, yeah, and who knows, like.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: Maybe you know, as this comes out and there's more and more cases of antisocial behavior um appearing in court, maybe we'll get some I'm sure this will be a future.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: One thing to expand on that as well is something called accelerated possession, um, which if you're doing a section 21 everything is as it should be you don't have to go to court to get possession or possession order for your property.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: You can do an accelerated possession claim, which means you basically do, you prepare everything and you fill out the documentation for um, basically just sending it to the courts without having to have a hearing, and they will then write back to you with the possession order, as long as everything is as it should be.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: So that's one way without having to go to court.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: If you issued a section 21, well, everything else it should be.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: You can then do an accelerated possession claim, which means you don't have to go to court for it because it's a section 21, section 8 you're going to have to go to court, okay the other thing I'd probably say is, when you're getting tenants into your properties, always get that emergency point of contact or next of kin, so you've got somebody that you know, for instance, that's a sneaky trick we do, isn't it?
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: yeah, I mean you obviously when you're paying, but obviously when there's obviously a problem, this gentleman that we were dealing with, obviously there's issues there that he needs support with and that's not our job to to deal with that.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Obviously, if you've got that family member's contact, you can speak with them.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Um, so if they haven't paid their rent, been trying to contact such and such.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I just want to see whether you've been out.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: You've spoken to him recently because, oh, why is it you're trying to get in contact?
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, he hasn't paid his rent.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: We're just trying to get in contact with him to see if everything's okay.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: You know, if it's bank and mum and dad problem solved, very quickly resolved, um, but that's another angle, potentially why you want to get that point of contact as well amazing, amazing, brilliantly.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: And lastly, we wanted to talk about joint tenancies and if you've got somebody on a joint tenancy but one of them hands their notice in.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, legally, you're both liable whatever happens.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: You are the people that if the rent isn't paid, it's both of you that can be held liable.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Now, with this process, there's a number of different avenues, or you know, you can go down to try and resolve matters, and obviously communication between all parties is very important.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: So if one of them says, look to leave, you then see the other person is staying.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, can you find somebody else?
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Is one avenue.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: And if they then say, no, no, I'm going to stay here on my own.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: The next question is okay, affordability.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Now, if we're letting you stay in this property, we need to know that you've got sufficient funds to stay within the property itself from the income that you've got, because otherwise we're just opening a can of worms.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Now, if the affordability isn't there, we then say, right, you need to either vacate or you need to find somebody else that will cover the shortfall.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: If you can't, both parties are still going to remain on that.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Tenancy agreement is the avenue that I would take on it, because you say well, look, I know you're looking to leave, but you've signed a legal agreement that says you'll pay the rent for the six months.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: So with that in mind, both parties are then trying to find somebody else if the affordability isn't there and what we'll then say is, once that person takes over, you isn't there, and what we'll then say is, once that person takes over, you won't be held liable for the rent following this date.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: We'll still have to do it.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: You know the checks on that new person.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Do it.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Do it whether you do a deed of amendment or you do a whole new tenancy pack, whatever it may will be to make sure that that tenancy is as tight as it possibly can be, because if things come down the line and something doesn't happen like it wants to, we have to get name for possession.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: That paperwork has to be watertight.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: That's what's really important, because you're seeing all of a sudden signs here.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: This could may well have an arrear situation.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Right, we need to make sure this paperwork is watertight, really, really important.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: The checks is on everybody that's, the new person's going to move in, if it's a new person moving in, but if it's not, and they haven't found a new person and the affordability isn't there, both people still stay on that tenancy agreement, so both parties are still liable.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Not sure whether you want to add anything on to that yeah, I think.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: I mean it happens quite a lot.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: We see it quite a lot with students so you get like four tenants moving together and inevitably there's always going to be a fallout.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: You keep it up with your girlfriend staying over.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we see it.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Most years we'll have at least one property where this happens one or two fallout.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: More often than not, if they haven't found anyone to replace it, they're still having to pay their share of the rent, even if they've decided not to live there.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: So it's really important that tenants are aware that they can't.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: It's a joint tenancy, so either everyone goes or no one goes Banker.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: Mum and dad are very important, in particular in student properties, because you're going to have to do checks on each and every one of them as well as all the guarantors, if you can do as well, unless they're saying they're working and they're going to be able to cover their share of the.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: You know you need to.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Everyone needs to be accountable.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: And also, if you've got a single tenancy agreement but you've got multiple mums and dads and multiple tenants on it, one of them doesn't pay.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: The other ones are also liable, involved in it as well, depending upon how you split it.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: If you're doing rooms individually, fine, so there's going to be a motivation by all of them to make sure that, or if one or two of the you know parents have been guarantors on it, someone's not paying it.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: You know I'm trying to say this is interlinks there that make sure it's as tight as it possibly can be that rent will be paid amazing, amazing.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: And of course, the renter's right Bill will change all of that as well, won't?
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: it More changes, proactive changes.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Be proactive with everything you can do to make sure you're prepared for it.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And another thing that's with the Renters' Right Bill.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: A separate point on it is with regards to the rents.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: If you haven't reviewed your rents recently, please do it now.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Look at what the marketplace is like at the moment so you can do renewals.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: But if you're not doing a renewal which is fixing them to a new term, a section 13 notice is basically just giving them notice that their rent is going up and that the data which is going up by, and if you then want to then provide proof for example, if you've got tenants you think I'm not sure how they'll receive it Send them proof of what other rents have been charged at the moment in the marketplace and the fact that you're giving it a little bit less.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: It's lovely if you can commit them to another 12 months on a renewal or another six months, but if you just do the section 13, that just means that it will then mean that the contract will continue rolling but they'll have a higher rent from a certain point okay, okay, that works out.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Well then, yeah, and that's it at the moment.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: You can do renewals.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: For fixed terms, For fixed terms and again we don't know whether, when that bill comes in, whether any fixed terms previously agreed are going to be kind of null and void or whether that's been agreed.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: So we'll see that one out and then from that point.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: So you know, we're still doing some renewals.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: Less landlords are wanting to because of what's coming in.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: But 713 is lots more than happening, so yeah, right, all right, okay, okay, no, that's brilliant, that is absolutely brilliant.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you ever so much.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's always great to see you both and to have those updates there.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Have you got any sort of final parallels or tips or anything that you would uh recommend right now?
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, yeah, just really going over.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: What we've kind of said is that you know now is a really good time to review your processes and just document everything you know.
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: Have you have ways.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: You know we have a management system that has everything logged on it, so it's a bit easier.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: If you're self-managing, you need to kind of have your processes where you're kind of keeping all these communications, keeping a lot of any incidents.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, your record keeping and your communication with your tenants, I think will become more and more important, but in the end, for Alison and I, we're really.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Obviously the reason why we're pairing it with you on this as well, mark, is we're passionate about helping people to be as successful as they possibly can be whilst also maintaining compliance.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: That's very difficult, in particular, if you're a self-managing landlord and the fact is that you've got your full-time job but then you've got tenants calling you about this.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Tenants coming about, then, all of a sudden, one's vacate, all these different things.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Then you've got to worry about legislation.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: So, with that in mind, this is why we're doing, obviously, these meetings with yourself.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: We've also got podcasts.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: We've got webinars that we're doing.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: We've got a YouTube channel, as I'm sure you know.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: We want to give free education.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: It costs nothing.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: This is what we do day in, day out.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: This is what we're experts in.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Everyone has their own areas they're experts in, and that is why you employ agents.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: People may all say oh, you know, I don't want to use an agent, you know, I'll keep the money to myself.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: The question you then ask is well, how much time are you spending managing your portfolio?
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: And if, all of a sudden, you didn't do X or Y, that could cost you thousands.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, knowing it's been done, knowing it's all been done properly.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: So this is the thing.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Obviously, yes, I've got a biased opinion of the fact that I'm a lasting agent and estate agent myself, but do seriously consider where you can, in particular with the renters rights bill that's coming investigating about other agents that potentially could help you with um looking after your properties and making sure and in addition to that, I know there's some some landlords will say to us oh no, they do the maintenance, they look after the house.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: No, they've had the same rent for the last couple of years and I'm like no God you should be getting hundreds of pounds more.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: It's you know.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Give them a reality check of the fact that and this is where I said to you, as far as proving why you put a rent up, this is what other people are charging.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I'll give you the benefits of giving you slightly less, but, yes, yes, getting everything as up-to-date as you can be in line with the marketplace, so, so, so important at the moment no, brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And what I've done is I've put your link tree in the chat as well.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: So, uh, you know, guys and girls, take a copy of that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: If you're watching this, because it's in the vault, then you'll see the link tree below the video.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Of course, that's where you can.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: You can contact Alison and Anthony, have a little chat with them, see if they can help in any way, shape or form.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: There's lots of different services that they have there, but, once again, it's amazing to have you guys as part of the community.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: I know you're in the community as well, which is great, and I'm sure you're dipping in and out of there as and when you've got a bit of time.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: We do have the thread, which will be, if you're on your dashboard, and everything where it says lettings, updates or questions.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: So if you do have any specific questions for Alison and Anthony, then please feel free to put those in there and we'll do our best to make sure that they get answered.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: If not, we might use those questions on our next call so that I can start to really hit you with some Q&A answers and stuff.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: And it's all about, like you say, making sure that people people are professional, making sure that people are up to date and that they know what they're doing.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: So thank you ever so much for having you both on.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: We'll see you again in august if we don't catch up before.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Um, and yeah, any, any final, final things to say no, all good, enjoy the rest of your day.
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, enjoy a lovely weekend.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wednesday, only wednesday, you lose track of days we do.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: We do so.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: No, that's brilliant, absolutely amazing.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Uh, like I say once again, thank you for joining me here.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: So I shall change the screen over quickly and just do a quick rundown with some slides, if they are playing nicely for me.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: A bit of tech here, best laid plans and all of that, and really this is just a quick rundown of the different calls that we've got coming up this month so far.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: So still to come.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: We've just done the lettings update and advice from Ali and Anthony and that's been absolutely amazing.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I'll be doing my first creative property strategy session next Monday, on the 14th at 7pm.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Our Ask the Expert session is going to be with James Wyatt this month.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: James is also a coach here.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: He likes to help people who have limiting beliefs, any blockers, helping you get out of your own way.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: So do tap into that, and that is on the 15th.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: That'll be Thursday at 7pm.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: You're taking action call.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Sorry, that's Tuesday the 15th.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Take action call week, james.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: We'll be on the same week as well, and that will be on the 17th at 7pm.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: We have the monthly mortgage update with Rob Peters on the 16th of this month and then we have a service accommodation session coming up.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: That's probably going to be in August now, but it will probably, I think, be the third Thursday of the month and we'll start those in August.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: And, of course, our next lettings update and advice from Alison and Anthony will be at 12pm August the 13th.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: So put it in your diaries, make sure it's scheduled there.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: It is, of course, in the events tab as well.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Once again, thank you for joining us here today.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: If you need any help, don't suffer in silence.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: We are here to help and support you every step of the way.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, guys, and I'll see you all again very, very soon.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Take care Bye for now.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure you'll all agree there's massive, massive value in making sure that you are listening to the property professionals that can help and support you on your property journey.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: We'll be sharing a lot more of our insider information with you, guys and girls, here on the podcast and, once again, if you have any interest in finding out more about how we can help and support you and you can learn all of the different property strategies without having to pay thousands of pounds and doing anybody's mastermind training, then education to action, property education to action is the place for you and, as our slogan goes, what is your ETA?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: We all need to have goals, we all need to have vision and we all need to have an ETA.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: So let's try and work out what yours is.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's all about surrounding yourself with like-minded people for success.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: So I hope you've enjoyed this episode and I look forward to you joining me in the next episode very soon.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Take care and bye for now.