Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Cristina Ahmadpour: Beyond Pilots & Scaling Innovation | Make Water Work 049

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Cristina Ahmadpour: Beyond Pilots & Scaling Innovation | Make Water Work 049 · Make Water Work Podcast

0:00
Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast,
0:03
where we dive into the people, ideas,
0:05
and innovations shaping the future of
0:08
water. We bring you insights from
0:11
hundreds of incredible conversations
0:13
we've had over the past 9 years with
0:15
inspiring and energizing leaders with
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entrepreneurs, community champions, and
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innovators who are making water work for
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everyone. Whether you're a water
0:24
professional, a curious innovator, or
0:27
simply passionate about our most
0:28
precious resource, this podcast is for
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you. Let's get started.
0:41
Well, hello everyone and welcome to the
0:43
Make Water Work podcast where we
0:45
interview influencers, leaders, and
0:48
innovators in the water industry who
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make water work. Today I'm joined by
0:52
Christina Amarapur who is the managing
0:56
director of the Americas for IO
0:58
Utilities. Um and it's really uh an
1:01
entity that really helps um and a lot of
1:03
what Christina does is work on helping
1:06
utilities identify and adopt innovation.
1:09
And so Christina, I'm so excited that we
1:12
get to have this conversation.
1:14
>> Yeah, me too. Isaac, thanks for having
1:16
me.
1:17
>> Yeah, it's been it's been a long time. I
1:19
feel like you were one of those folks
1:20
who um when I entered the water industry
1:23
in 2018
1:26
um one of my first ACE conversations um
1:29
you know you you were just so um so
1:32
generous and welcoming and then
1:33
introduced me to all of the work that
1:36
that you do in um in helping align when
1:39
folks have crazy ideas um and are trying
1:42
to figure out how to validate those with
1:44
um with utilities.
1:47
Yeah. So, so thank you for that. Um,
1:50
>> yeah. No, it's been it's been great to
1:51
see you your journey and like to see 120
1:55
water continue to expand its business
1:57
and you know, you all went through one
1:59
of our programs and are now extremely
2:01
wellestablished successful company. I
2:04
know you've had a big part in that and
2:06
um it's just it's also been really great
2:08
to get to know you coming outside of
2:10
water but bringing so much to our
2:11
industry from a like branding, visual
2:14
communication, storytelling. So, yeah,
2:16
it's been fun. It's been fun to see your
2:18
journey, too.
2:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. And and
2:21
speaking of storytelling, um I've never
2:24
met anyone since I've been in this
2:26
industry since 2018 who didn't have a
2:28
story of how water found them, and I
2:30
always find that fascinating. So,
2:31
Christina, how did water find you?
2:34
>> Okay, so um I do have a story now, but I
2:38
didn't initially. Um I would say, uh I
2:42
guess I found water, but it also found
2:44
me. I'm sort of like in the middle. Um,
2:46
there was always a foundation there and
2:48
I learned about this all in my 20s after
2:51
I had already entered the water
2:53
industry. So, I'll sort of backtrack.
2:55
The foundation was set by my grandfather
2:58
and my dad. So, my dad and his dad.
3:01
>> I had learned in my uh late 20s that my
3:04
grandfather was a I knew he was a civil
3:07
engineer, but I didn't really know what
3:08
he did. So I had learned he worked on
3:11
the uh water infrastructure in Iran,
3:14
establishing dams that essentially
3:16
brought water storage and uh security to
3:19
the communities, the urban areas of
3:21
cities that were growing like Espahan
3:23
and Tehran.
3:24
>> Mhm.
3:25
>> So it was really uh incredible. And the
3:28
way I discovered that was seeing a photo
3:30
where he was, you know, on a site and it
3:33
was a dam that's being constructed and
3:35
there was this huge truck behind him.
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I'm like, what's going on here? and and
3:38
I found that out. So, it just blew my
3:40
mind like
3:41
>> I might have been in the industry five
3:43
to six years at that point and had
3:45
learned that um my dad was a civil
3:49
engineer. I knew he was a civil engineer
3:50
growing up. I knew that he put pipes in
3:52
the ground. That's what he told me. I
3:54
just didn't understand really what he
3:56
did, but he had worked um in various
3:58
roles from um you know, laboratory,
4:01
project management, design, and then
4:03
construction for water and wastewater
4:05
utilities for the majority of his
4:06
career. Um, and so yeah, the foundation
4:10
was laid, but I was never like groomed
4:12
to come into the industry. It just sort
4:14
of happened. So that's why I sort of say
4:17
the foundation was there. Um, it's meant
4:20
to be. I love the water industry. It's
4:23
such a great sector to work in and and u
4:26
the mission and the people that are
4:27
behind the work that we do. I, you know,
4:29
I'm just I'm thrilled that I'm here. But
4:31
yeah, history, which is fun to to
4:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that is awesome.
4:38
And it's I I'm curious too about your
4:41
perspective because there's there's
4:43
something about what it means to be in
4:46
water and but specifically when it comes
4:48
to um being in innovation, but then also
4:52
the aspect of leading innovation and
4:55
what leadership looks like in building a
4:57
team and and in nurturing a a mindset
4:59
and a culture that balances embracing
5:02
innovation and um and pushing the
5:05
envelope um with innovation. So what do
5:08
you feel like has changed to your
5:10
approach of of leadership over uh the
5:13
past 11 12 years?
5:15
>> Yeah. Okay. So when I started initially
5:18
as a water professional um I was not in
5:22
a leadership role. I always had the
5:25
ambition and appetite to be you know
5:27
leading a company leading a team um
5:30
creating something that didn't exist.
5:32
And ultimately when I came to Isle it
5:36
was um it was a it is a global
5:38
organization. The US business was in its
5:41
infancy and had been started by um my
5:45
predecessors which you know I think had
5:47
had great vision. Um and like anything
5:50
that starts new it molds and shapes over
5:52
time. And so
5:54
>> I would say you know the the just call
5:58
it innovation as a general term. my my
6:01
evolution of what that looks like has
6:03
changed. I think before it was like, oh,
6:06
it's a startup company. It's new
6:07
technology, but I've learned to
6:09
appreciate that fundamentally innovation
6:12
means so much more. It's a it's an idea.
6:15
It's a product. It's a business model.
6:17
It is a technology, but that goes
6:20
through an entire cycle. It's
6:22
introduced. It's created. And then
6:24
ultimately, the adoption scale is a big
6:26
part of what innovation means. um
6:29
>> just researching a topic that doesn't go
6:32
anywhere or just piloting without the
6:34
adoption you know by textbook definition
6:38
does not innovation that's not
6:39
innovation.
6:40
>> So I think just like becoming really
6:42
disciplined in what we mean by it
6:44
because I know it's sort of used very
6:47
broadly in a lot of different contexts
6:48
is what I've come to appreciate and
6:50
where I'm spending time educating the
6:52
market and working with clients.
6:55
Um and I would just say you know the
6:57
other transformation um from a
7:00
leadership perspective the leadership
7:02
role I play and what that looks like is
7:04
how do we help the sector really sort of
7:07
understand it and embrace it from an
7:09
organizational standpoint an
7:11
organizational readiness standpoint. So
7:14
like the most um
7:16
>> well-led organizations that I see in the
7:19
industry today and I'll say water
7:21
utilities, water wastewater utilities,
7:24
there's strong leadership in place and
7:26
the role that we play
7:28
>> uh to serve them and have them sort of
7:32
be ready to embrace what innovation
7:34
looks like, define it, and work through
7:35
that process on an organizational level
7:37
is is something I'm really excited that
7:39
we're taking a lead on and um and
7:42
collaborating with with others on. So,
7:44
>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you talked about
7:48
like um when you're talking about
7:50
innovation,
7:52
just leaning into that aspect of
7:55
innovation can feel so hard in the water
7:58
sector. Um or at least that's how it can
8:00
be characterized. I like how you um kind
8:03
of widened the aperture to be like it's
8:05
it's not just the thing, it can also be
8:08
the way something is done or those kind
8:10
of things. Um but why do you think
8:12
innovation is so hard um in the water
8:16
sector and and what do you think we
8:17
could do about it?
8:18
>> Yeah. Um you know I've been spending a
8:21
lot of time uh thinking about this and
8:24
what comes to mind is the people element
8:27
of it. So you know again I've come to
8:29
appreciate the role people and
8:30
leadership plays in in sort of unlocking
8:33
innovation and value capacity. So, um
8:38
um I lost my train of thought. What was
8:40
it? I said,
8:42
>> "Yeah." Yeah. Yeah. No, it's
8:44
>> my brain's like going now down all these
8:46
rabbit holes. You got to bring me back
8:47
in.
8:49
>> I'm here for it. Yeah. Um Yeah. This is
8:53
like in in response to to thinking about
8:56
what innovation is and kind of like you
8:58
widened the appro a little bit in your
9:00
response of, you know, innovation is
9:02
more than just the product um that folks
9:05
will bring in. And it can be the process
9:06
or um anything like that. So um why do
9:09
you think innovation is so hard in the
9:11
water sector?
9:12
>> Why is it so hard? Thanks for bringing
9:13
me back. Um I I think it could be hard
9:16
from a few different ways. The people,
9:17
the leadership, like if leadership at
9:18
the top is not there if they don't have
9:20
a clear vision of what innovation looks
9:23
like at their organization. And again
9:26
like back to the basics, I don't think
9:28
there's a clear understanding of what
9:29
that actually looks like. We just focus
9:31
on the startup. we don't look at the
9:33
broader definition of how that could be
9:34
represented. So leadership needs to
9:37
understand that there needs to be
9:38
alignment on what those priorities and
9:40
opportunities are. And I also think, you
9:44
know, um there's sort of a um like an
9:47
aggressive side of innovation where, you
9:49
know, we want to shoot big, we want to
9:51
solve the big problems, we want to get
9:54
engaged with earlier, newer ideas and
9:56
test them all the way through. and some
9:58
want to be on the other side of the
10:00
spectrum
10:01
>> embracing and adopting new solutions and
10:03
like working more on that scaling
10:05
implementation side. So without going in
10:08
the weeds like the innovation adoption
10:10
curve organizations on different parts
10:13
of that not every organization knows
10:16
exactly where they sit. So again back to
10:19
>> what does it mean for them where do they
10:21
sit? What are their priorities? If
10:24
that's not fundamental, that makes it
10:26
harder.
10:28
>> Of course, there's funding. Of course,
10:30
there's capacity. Of course, there are
10:32
all those other things, not enough time.
10:35
Um, but I really think if we get clear
10:38
on what those pain points are or those
10:40
value creation opportunities,
10:43
then
10:44
>> that can be directed into business as
10:46
usual. So like business usual as far as
10:49
you know capital projects to inspect and
10:51
replace pipe utilities are going to do
10:53
that anyway.
10:54
>> How do we direct efforts to do more with
10:57
less leverage the best technology that
10:59
ultimately deliver a better outcome?
11:01
>> It doesn't be a separate side project,
11:04
you know. Yeah, that's why it's harder.
11:07
Some of those those elements that comes
11:08
to mind.
11:10
>> Yeah. Yeah. The the word that that stuck
11:13
out to me there is outcome. I think from
11:15
the um like entrepreneur standpoint, I
11:18
think a lot of times it can get lost in
11:21
the excitement of creating a solution
11:23
that has a problem to ever ask the
11:24
question like does this address an
11:26
outcome that this audience has and and
11:29
that can you can pour so much time,
11:32
effort, and energy into
11:35
this is a big problem and I have the
11:36
solution. But if that's not a desired
11:38
outcome, then then like it's incumbent
11:44
on innovators and I'm pointing myself
11:47
there's a lot of great um great folks
11:49
that create things. It's incumbent on us
11:51
to say why what outcome could this
11:55
impact? That's my that this is would be
11:58
worth their time to think about. Um
12:02
>> um yeah. Yeah.
12:05
>> Yeah. I I just think there's um there's
12:08
too much of thinking of like innovation
12:09
and isolation versus integrating into
12:12
business as usual and finding pathways
12:15
to bring that as a strategic imperative
12:18
or a like a mindset a way of doing
12:22
things to already the organization's
12:24
functions like there's every
12:26
organization
12:28
>> can be more innovative.
12:29
>> Yeah.
12:30
>> Doesn't need to rely on you know the 10
12:32
in the water industry that seem to be
12:33
more visible. I I I see I see it
12:36
happening much more broadly already.
12:38
It's just sort of behind the scenes that
12:40
like every organization has the
12:42
opportunity. They don't need to chase
12:43
all the projects, but they can focus on
12:45
one particular area that matters and do
12:48
better. You know, that's my philosophy.
12:50
>> Yep. Yep. Yeah. That that makes a lot of
12:54
sense. Um, and I'm curious on
13:00
um, you know, there there's a lot in the
13:03
water industry a lot of need to
13:04
establish pilots to help help ideas um,
13:10
get tested and kind of derisked. Um,
13:13
where do you feel like that pilot to
13:16
scale gap um, looks like um, in practice
13:19
and where does innovation stall out?
13:22
Yeah, I want to take this from an angle
13:26
of the vendor side. So, and I'm probably
13:29
speaking more of your language here is
13:31
like when the value proposition is very
13:34
well understood from the vendor side,
13:36
like what is the value unique selling
13:39
point, the value that they're bringing
13:40
to a set of challenges that their
13:43
customers face, right? Once they're very
13:45
clear on that, they need to map out
13:46
their customers.
13:48
I think there needs to be um a bit more
13:51
due diligence on the solution provider
13:54
side to just like really understand who
13:56
are their early adopters, who are their
13:59
early early partners to get the data,
14:01
build those business cases. Then what's
14:03
that next wave of early adopters to
14:06
build more confidence, show the maturity
14:08
of the solution, quantify the return on
14:10
investment, you know, build confidence,
14:13
right? And then we go to that early
14:15
majority which is like
14:17
>> what what are my foundational customers
14:19
that are going to make or break my
14:21
success, right? Is that 50 customers? Is
14:23
it a hundred?
14:24
>> Who are they? And I think, you know,
14:27
because there's such an urgency to scale
14:29
because
14:30
>> cash is king, time is money, all of
14:32
that. Like
14:33
>> I think there's a lack of discipline on
14:35
the solution provider side just to get
14:37
out there to whoever. And because that
14:40
discipline doesn't take place, it really
14:43
is a missed opportunity to partner with
14:44
the right customers at the right time to
14:47
build that trajectory. And I know it's
14:49
not always linear.
14:50
>> Yeah.
14:51
>> But um I think that could really help
14:53
set up uh pilots along that maturity
14:57
curve with intention and with
14:59
discipline. So when you get the data on
15:01
the other side, it's feeding decisions.
15:03
It's feeding a utility or customer's
15:05
decision to go or no go. And so
15:09
um the vendors have a lot of
15:11
responsibility on that. I don't see a
15:12
lot of sophistication frankly. And so I
15:15
think that's an opportunity to set up um
15:18
do better. And then also along that
15:20
journey, you know, partnerships are
15:22
crucial. Um
15:24
>> private equity, venture capital is not
15:26
always the answer to give cash early on
15:29
to give companies that like time to
15:31
scale. Sometimes it's partners. there's
15:34
there's way to find really great
15:36
partners that can help build that
15:38
maturity, that market delivery, that
15:40
expertise that the customers really
15:42
benefit from um that ultimately help the
15:46
you know the outcomes. Um and I think
15:50
>> uh perhaps bringing in private equity
15:52
and venture capital too early on in a
15:54
product's life cycle just
15:56
>> um it just changes the lens in which
15:58
that transaction happens and it's not
16:01
always better. So
16:02
>> yeah,
16:02
>> those are just some initial thoughts.
16:04
Um,
16:05
>> yeah.
16:05
>> Yeah.
16:06
>> Yeah. I feel like it can create a lot of
16:08
a false positive, like a false sense of
16:11
like we have something because someone
16:13
decide to invest in it versus we have
16:16
something because a customer decided to
16:19
adopt it. Um, and it's like there it's
16:23
it is a tough discipline as you said for
16:26
an entrepreneur to be able to flip that
16:29
switch and be like, I need to sell this
16:30
to investors. Yes. But to derisk the
16:35
investment, you have to show how you're
16:37
good at derisking the adoption.
16:39
>> Yeah.
16:40
>> Um and I think there's a lot of um
16:45
it it's important for vendors
16:48
um to understand that like it's almost
16:53
scapegoating to just say the water
16:55
industry is slow to adopt. It's like
16:57
it's it is our job to derisk the
17:00
adoption.
17:01
>> Yeah.
17:01
>> And I love that aspect of like partners
17:03
is is how you um how you borrow trust.
17:08
Like who do who do they trust? Who can
17:10
help vet this? Who can help move this a
17:13
little bit further?
17:14
>> Yeah.
17:14
>> So they don't feel like I'm going to be
17:16
disruptive if I try to adopt something
17:19
new.
17:19
>> Yeah. What do you what do you think
17:21
because you've been on that journey. Do
17:23
you feel um like
17:26
less customers but more indepth
17:30
you know case study successes with less
17:32
customers the right customers has been
17:34
really instrumental to your organization
17:36
success or is it quantity and scaling up
17:39
fast like
17:40
>> I know it's a different journey but what
17:41
do you
17:43
>> No I I think I think it is the like
17:47
identifying
17:49
not just
17:51
the not just adoption but who who can
17:54
adopt it that also can help shape and re
17:58
reframe the story because the first idea
18:01
that you have as an entrepreneur is
18:02
probably wrong.
18:04
>> Yeah.
18:04
>> Um and the faster you can identify where
18:07
it's wrong, the faster you'll be there.
18:09
So the person that tells you that it's
18:10
wrong that is also vested like
18:13
>> a customer that adopted it, like let
18:15
them
18:16
>> tell you where you're wrong. Don't don't
18:18
let your ego get in the way. and then
18:21
they're gonna
18:22
>> they're going to be your best like you
18:24
can go deep with them and they then it
18:27
becomes a referral engine. Um so
18:30
>> yeah,
18:31
>> don't don't push for scale too fast like
18:34
don't go too fast. Um it's a delicate
18:37
balance but
18:39
>> um
18:40
>> I I think that's a good build to the
18:42
point here which is like really select
18:45
you vendors choosing the right partners
18:48
also means what what do you want from
18:50
that transaction if you're doing a pilot
18:53
>> um you know building refining the
18:55
messaging um testing a new feature
18:58
whatever that is I think that's really
18:59
important especially early on like your
19:01
first pilot demonstration
19:04
>> I think as you get later maybe Something
19:06
else I can just add is once a solution
19:09
is quite mature, right? It's had several
19:12
installations, let's say 50 or so, you
19:14
know, it's an established technology,
19:16
commercially available, there's still a
19:18
lot of pilots that happen. And the
19:20
reason is to mitigate risk, build trust,
19:23
you know, test claims, etc. And while I
19:26
think that is fine because we're in the
19:28
governmental space and sometimes that is
19:31
just tied to procurement requirements, I
19:33
do think to set pilots up for success,
19:36
there needs to be more um holding feet
19:39
to the fire. When you when you as a
19:42
vendor now know that you have a solid
19:44
technology and you're confident and you
19:46
know risk is managed,
19:48
>> you know, do a performance guarantee
19:51
pilot to purchase. You know, put some
19:53
skin in the game. do do pilots at no
19:56
cost but ensure there's a guarantee
19:58
award on the other side like be a bit
20:00
more creative but
20:01
>> if you know that you have the confidence
20:04
and you've already mitigated risk
20:06
>> you know put your own skin in the game
20:09
um to follow through but
20:11
>> tie the utility or customer to following
20:13
up if if you meet their requirements
20:16
right because we do more pilot to
20:18
adoption not pilot to RFP to maybe that
20:22
solution gets chosen or not that that is
20:25
not helpful for the industry.
20:27
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. Because
20:29
we're we're dependent on there being s
20:33
we need to stand on the shoulders of
20:35
previous successes from others to be
20:38
able to say, "Hey, there's momentum
20:40
here. There's some tailwinds. Um this
20:42
isn't the first time um they've adopted
20:45
um adopted something um something new."
20:49
And I can remember like um you know if I
20:53
think back to one of my first ACE um
20:56
events from AWA and one of the first
20:59
times that um that we probably
21:01
interfaced um in the innovation um
21:04
lounge. It was there was so much
21:07
programming at the time and like I was
21:09
new. I came from um sales and marketing
21:12
software and where everything is venture
21:15
scale fast fast fast um
21:17
>> very opposite
21:18
>> and very opposite and then just like
21:20
being able to hear like
21:22
>> like in that world everyone's seeking
21:25
disruption and you know from some of the
21:28
the ways that that you were talking and
21:30
and the the panels that you're putting
21:32
together it was like this persona is not
21:35
looking for disruption.
21:37
>> Yes. So are as fun as it would be to be
21:41
like we have this disruptive technology.
21:44
It's like don't use that word like we're
21:47
not disruptive. We are
21:49
>> we are say like we have to figure out
21:52
what would make it safe um not
21:54
disruptive.
21:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's a good
21:57
point. Like we should not be using that
21:59
word in that context.
22:01
that this triggers another thought for
22:03
me I don't I don't think gets discussed
22:04
enough which is
22:06
>> you know um so technological innovations
22:10
focusing on the technology bit
22:12
>> some technology displaces current
22:15
technology it it makes current
22:17
technology obsolete right
22:20
>> um or there's new innovations that
22:23
enhance and improve existing technology
22:27
I think depending on the solution
22:30
provider
22:32
where their solution fits in. The level
22:35
of investment to educate, socialize, and
22:38
bring different people to the table is
22:41
really important because if it makes an
22:44
existing tool that people have been
22:46
using for 20, 30 years essentially
22:48
obsolete and requires a complete rework,
22:50
that's that's where innovation gets
22:53
harder. And um I just think that needs
22:55
to be like
22:56
>> yeah,
22:56
>> a box that's checked and discussed at
22:58
you know when the again trans Now you're
23:00
on a long chain management journey
23:03
>> and it's less about the technology and
23:05
your ability to manage a chain
23:07
management journey which is
23:10
>> harder than saying you don't have to
23:12
change too much about
23:13
>> yes
23:14
>> your dayto-day it's going to get
23:17
enhanced this much percent and um yeah
23:22
yeah I I feel like so much of it is
23:23
journey building like how like how do
23:25
you understand
23:27
the journey of what it takes to adopt
23:30
And then not saying, hey, you have to
23:34
jump from here to here, but here are the
23:36
steps. And can you I think at its best,
23:40
some technologies
23:42
know how to meet the customer where they
23:47
are to be like, we're going to get
23:49
there, but we can start here.
23:51
>> Yeah.
23:54
>> Yeah. It it is it is that that journey
23:57
that change management that I think is
23:58
really uh a key part of ultimate success
24:02
and back to like the adoption whether
24:04
it's a technology new idea a new process
24:06
within the organization a business model
24:09
change that's something a lot of
24:11
organizations are reflecting on is like
24:13
okay we need to look at our business
24:15
model because bringing in revenue based
24:17
on just customer rates alone is not
24:19
sustainable like we have a financial gap
24:21
so how do we change potent are other
24:24
ways to change our business model to
24:27
recover or generate revenue in other
24:29
other ways. And so, um, that that
24:33
journey, that conversation, that
24:34
alignment, bringing people together, um,
24:37
building consensus and clarity is is
24:39
really important ultimately to progress.
24:43
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm curious. Um I
24:47
keep I keep thinking about so much of it
24:50
from my entry in 2018 to now. How have
24:56
how have you seen things evolve from the
24:58
vendor perspective? If we just think
25:00
about AWA is Innovation Lounge, how have
25:05
things um
25:07
>> have things shifted in the way that like
25:09
the types of vendors that are there or
25:11
the mindset that um that people come
25:13
with?
25:14
>> Yeah. Well, first of all, I can't
25:16
believe it's been since 2018 that you
25:18
joined the water industry. Like, you're
25:20
still in it. That's awesome.
25:22
>> I know. I I feel like a baby still, but
25:26
>> Yeah. No, you're you're in it now,
25:28
Isaac. Um I mean, you know, if I go
25:32
back, so my very first start in water
25:33
was 16 years ago. The conversation
25:36
around what it means to be an innovative
25:39
organization, what that looks like. I I
25:42
am finding that front and center to how
25:44
organizations themselves become
25:46
resilient with the current constraints
25:49
and pressures that the industry faces.
25:51
It is part of the narrative. I think
25:53
there's still a lot of effort to
25:55
understand what that actually means and
25:57
looks like
25:58
>> because it's a fundamental um you know
26:02
part of an organization's strategy and
26:05
how they do that and it has to integrate
26:06
with the bigger picture. Again, it can't
26:08
be like an ad hoc standalone So that has
26:12
been a big shift and I think that is
26:13
becoming even louder in the last you
26:16
know eight years right.
26:17
>> Yeah. Um, I think of course the pandemic
26:20
accelerated a lot of these pressures,
26:22
brought to light the constraints, but
26:24
also showed what we have the capacity to
26:26
do when we're like, yeah,
26:28
>> when it's absolutely essential and
26:29
urgent and and so I think that's
26:32
>> exciting to know what we're capable of
26:35
and and also just appreciate what gets
26:37
in the way and how we do that. as far as
26:40
uh solutions in the vendor space and how
26:42
that's changed like obviously a lot more
26:45
digital solutions
26:47
um a lot more AI based solutions the
26:50
conversation now with utilities in the
26:53
last 12 months have have been data
26:55
centers the 12 months before that 24
26:58
months before that was AI machine
27:00
learning um genai you know and so we're
27:04
shifting there but I still see um really
27:08
incredible opportunities
27:10
with some of the hardware tech that are
27:13
fundamental to how water systems operate
27:17
um and do their core business. So that's
27:19
not going away. While these themes are
27:22
becoming a lot more, you know, front and
27:24
center, I think the fact that
27:27
>> communities are a lot more engaged on
27:29
some of these hot topics like AI and
27:31
data centers, you know, presents its own
27:33
challenges, but I think it's a really
27:35
excellent opportunity for utilities
27:37
front and center and use that as a way
27:38
to do the messaging that they maybe have
27:42
not been able to do with such a
27:44
attentive audience that they have now.
27:47
>> Yeah. Yeah. I am with you. I feel like
27:49
I'm like
27:51
at like there's it's so intense
27:56
and it's kind of at fever pitch level.
27:58
Um I spent most of my week this week at
28:01
two different events or in the past two
28:03
weeks, one just water um in here in
28:06
Indiana and then yesterday was more on
28:08
from a technology standpoint. So it's
28:10
kind of both both ends of the spectrum.
28:13
Um and
28:15
on the the good thing in all of it is
28:19
communities are saying, "Hey, we have
28:21
resources that we realize are valuable."
28:24
And so it's a good opportunity to engage
28:26
and be like, "Great, let's let's talk
28:29
about how we value it, how we organize
28:31
around it, how we um what we prioritize,
28:35
because at the end of the day, it's like
28:37
we're
28:37
>> Yeah.
28:38
>> water water serves our communities, so
28:41
how are we serving it?" Yeah, I I'd be
28:44
really curious to to follow that. I
28:46
haven't frankly as closely like how are
28:49
utilities responding and using that
28:51
attentive audience to pivot to other
28:53
issues like funding the CIP, funding
28:55
other you know future and and like
28:58
essentially building a community
28:59
coalition to advise and engage on some
29:02
critical projects.
29:04
>> I I would hope that's happening. Um
29:06
yeah, I'm sure it is. you know, I had
29:08
just
29:08
>> I think to a certain extent and almost
29:10
to your point, what it triggers for me
29:12
too is like one of the in innovative
29:16
things is less about
29:18
the building of the structures or the
29:20
infrastructure and I think it's the
29:22
process of certain organizations have
29:25
decided to no longer have NDAs
29:28
>> so that their communities can talk and
29:30
I'm like that's actually the most
29:32
brilliant innovative thing because
29:33
>> interesting
29:34
>> that's not serving communities when you
29:36
can't talk about it until it's 30 days
29:38
before something goes in like that's
29:40
what's catching utilities off guard. So
29:43
as the pressure moves and um you know
29:46
one of the uh one of the technologies
29:49
that builds data centers says we're not
29:51
going to do NDA so we can start talking
29:53
about it as soon as we're I'm like
29:56
that's the right move like and that's
29:58
actually innovative because no one else
30:00
is doing that.
30:01
>> Yeah, I'll have to follow that more
30:02
closely. That's that's really
30:03
interesting to hear because I know
30:05
that's a sticking point.
30:07
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like if if we
30:09
can take take the the shackle off and be
30:12
able to talk um we can actually engage.
30:15
Um and yeah um I'm
30:20
um yeah there's so many so many places
30:23
we could go in this in this
30:25
conversation.
30:26
>> Yeah. Um and and uh at the same time I
30:30
really kind of want to land land the
30:33
plane um a bit. And you know as you
30:36
think about your your journey um to uh
30:42
to the the president at Aisle for
30:44
America's um what's one thing you tell
30:47
yourself when you were starting out?
30:49
>> Oh like going back in time like way
30:51
back.
30:51
>> Yeah. Going back in time like what like
30:53
>> Oh wow.
30:54
>> Yeah. So I took this role 12 well no I
30:58
joined I isle 12 years ago. I took this
31:00
role 11 years ago. So I've been
31:02
president for 11 years. Um if I were to
31:05
go back in time I I wouldn't change what
31:08
I told myself then. So maybe sharing
31:11
this helps other people.
31:13
>> Um I was presented with the opportunity
31:16
to take this role and um it it it was
31:21
not a planned transition. And it just
31:23
sort of happened and I said yes. I you
31:28
know I had led other organizations
31:31
initiatives. I was the president of my
31:33
my co-ed fraternity in college. I did a
31:35
lot of organization gathering. I always
31:37
sort of gravitated towards being the
31:38
leader. I was captain of my basketball
31:40
team. Like that's a very natural role
31:41
for me.
31:42
>> Yeah.
31:43
>> But I had never led a consulting
31:44
business before. Um but you know I think
31:48
it was like seconds before responding
31:50
yes when I was asked really not knowing
31:55
>> and having that experience. So if I
31:56
could go back in time I would tell
31:58
anyone in that position
32:00
>> um that has the opportunity to be a
32:02
leader just say yes. I mean you just
32:03
never know what you can learn.
32:05
>> Uh yes you have to do a lot of hard
32:07
work. You have to teach yourself. You
32:09
have like no one taught me thing like
32:13
this is all self-learning here. Um,
32:15
yeah,
32:15
>> you know, I was not trained on like
32:17
reviewing financials, um, and using a
32:20
financial pack to guide the business
32:22
strategy and all of that. I was lucky I
32:24
studied business, so like I knew a
32:26
little bit, but
32:28
>> but yeah, you I mean, you really have to
32:29
be self-sufficient and, uh, work on it
32:32
every day. Um, I have my ups and my
32:35
downs and yeah,
32:37
>> but yeah, I I think the point is like
32:38
say yes because you never know what's on
32:40
the other side of it and if it doesn't
32:42
work out, you pivot. like no big deal,
32:44
but you never know what you're capable
32:46
of if you say no.
32:49
>> Yeah. Yeah. I love that cuz it's it's
32:51
saying yes to an opportunity for growth
32:53
like and
32:55
>> you can you can um move into spaces that
32:59
give you the opportunity to to grow or
33:02
you can stay in a space that it ends up
33:06
being a real a maybe a small container.
33:08
And um
33:10
>> we all we all have to start somewhere.
33:12
Yeah,
33:13
>> we don't No, no one in leadership
33:15
started at that caliber. They all had to
33:18
learn. And I I try to remind myself of
33:21
that of the the team that I work with
33:24
and and the opportunity to grow and give
33:26
others a pathway. It's like we all need
33:28
to start somewhere and we're
33:30
>> like we learn through failure and trial
33:33
and yeah,
33:34
>> I think just having that safe space to
33:36
experiment um and people that have your
33:38
back is really important to growth as
33:40
well. So, like another big part is just,
33:44
you know, building the right team around
33:46
you.
33:46
>> Yeah.
33:47
>> Uh do not compromise on values and
33:49
culture. Again, I learned the hard way.
33:51
And um and so hire slow, make decisions
33:55
quickly. All all of those things um are
33:58
a big part of the leadership management
34:00
journey that I've I've learned. And um
34:02
yeah, I've just had incredible people
34:04
that I get to work with that are
34:05
>> You do. I was going to say I'm like I
34:07
I'm like I I love the team that you've
34:11
put together because like I mean I I've
34:14
just seen so many of them over and over
34:18
like as gone and it's just like
34:22
>> it's it's um it's a posture of openness
34:27
>> um and
34:30
um and and being confidently
34:33
bringing some some good direction and
34:35
focus to um to to create the right
34:40
conditions for innovation to um again be
34:44
safe derisking like it it's a benefit to
34:48
those of us who are who are vendors to
34:50
be like h how can we how can we hang
34:52
around which is why which is why we
34:54
always try to hang around the
34:56
>> keep coming back to
34:59
>> yeah it's just like this is a safe space
35:01
where where folks can explore ideas in
35:05
non-threatening ways. Um, and
35:08
>> um, yeah, it's
35:10
>> I'm glad to hear that that's how you
35:11
feel. U, I think we have really great
35:14
people and and like even though those
35:17
that have moved on to other, you know,
35:18
chapters in their careers, like they
35:21
remain great allies, partners, friends.
35:23
So, um, so yeah, I'm the team is a big
35:26
part of any any organization success,
35:29
right?
35:30
>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, this
35:34
has been such a good conversation. I I
35:36
do want to give you an opportunity just
35:37
to kind of as we wrap up just share a
35:40
little bit more about where Isle
35:41
Utilities fits into the picture um for
35:45
for innovation um within our industry.
35:48
>> Thank you, Isaac. Um yeah, so a little
35:50
bit about Isle for those that don't
35:52
know. Iowa is a global organization
35:55
and at its core was started to help
35:57
build a community of uh water utilities
36:01
uh to collaborate, make better
36:02
decisions, uh share learning, share
36:05
experiences
36:07
um and really to create a pathway for
36:09
emerging innovative solutions, novel
36:11
solutions to get to those decision
36:13
makers. like at our core what has it
36:16
been 21 years later that is still very
36:20
much the core but those communities of
36:22
collaboration look different um we've
36:24
got collaborations through like
36:27
memberships we've got um we do
36:30
partnerships you know around key topic
36:32
areas like AI and POS and other emerging
36:36
issues to just create that space of
36:39
close session peering uh uh peer sharing
36:42
>> uh and you know where we fit in the
36:44
day-to-day water utility like water
36:46
utilities that need to make decisions,
36:48
set a direction going forward, figuring
36:50
out what's out there, how do they go
36:52
about, you know, tackling a particular
36:54
area or building consensus. We not only
36:57
facilitate those conversations to create
36:59
clarity, but then we bring in that uh
37:02
learning and sharing within that pure
37:04
network. So like who's done that
37:06
elsewhere, what can you learn from that
37:07
as you set your chart, your chart, your
37:09
course, and then what are the solutions
37:11
that are part of that? Yeah,
37:12
>> like we're really that strategic partner
37:14
that help water utilities um get where
37:17
they're at and where they want to go. Um
37:19
in a and I think in a really unique way,
37:21
you know, we're have our sort of own our
37:24
own niche outside of a traditional
37:26
engineering management consulting firm.
37:28
So,
37:30
>> that's where we fit and uh yeah, we work
37:32
with really great water utilities as
37:34
well. So, just shout out those partners.
37:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you you have you have
37:41
collected an incredible group um that's
37:43
become a good community. Um and so yeah,
37:46
thank thank you for um thank you for
37:49
this conversation. Thank you for um for
37:52
what you've done in the industry and for
37:55
um and also just how how welcoming you
37:57
and your your entire team has been um to
37:59
myself and to the 120 water team.
38:02
>> A well thanks Isaac. I really appreciate
38:03
it. I still have my badass women of
38:06
water sticker that I cherish. So, I'm
38:08
gonna I'm probably going to need a new
38:09
one at some point. It's starting to
38:10
peel, but
38:12
>> I got you.
38:13
>> Cool. All right. Thanks.
38:15
>> Awesome. Well, and thank you all for
38:18
joining and listening to another episode
38:19
of the Make Waterwork podcast. Um, this
38:22
is always a highlight of my week to get
38:24
to have these conversations and talk to
38:25
folks like Christina. And if there's
38:27
anyone else that you're um that you
38:29
interact with that you're like, "Man,
38:31
they've got a great story." Um, please
38:33
reach out. Let us know. um and we'd be
38:35
happy to um to feature them.